tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg February 5, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm EST
♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." betty: welcome to the program. i am filling in for charlie rose, assignment. we look at the latest democratic debate. one-on-one showdown between bernie sanders and hillary clinton at the university of new hampshire. [applause] >> secretary clinton, senator sanders is campaigning against you now. at this point in the campaign, by arguing you are not progressive enough to be the democratic nominee. he has said that if you voted for the iraq war, in favor of the death penalty, if you want
on things like the keystone pipeline, if you said single-payer health care cannot happen, you are too far to the right of the democratic party to be the standardbearer. given those policy positions, why should liberal democrats support you and not senator sanders? mrs. clinton: i am a progressively gets things done. the root of the word progressive is progress. i have heard senator sanders' comments. it has caused me to wonder who is left in the progressive wing of the party? under his definition, president obama is not progressive because he took donations from wall street. vice president biden is not because of the court he supported keystone. great senator paul wellstone would not fit this definition because he voted for doma. we have differences. honestly, i think we should be
talking about what we want to do for the country. if we're going to get into labels, i don't think it was progressive to vote against the brady bill five times. i don't think it was progressive to give gun sellers immunity. it wasn't present to vote against ted kennedy's immigration reform. we can go back and forth like this. the fact is, most people watching tonight wants to know what we've done and what we will do. that is why i am laying out a specific agenda that will make progress, get more jobs with rising incomes, get us to universal health care coverage, get us to universal pre-k, paid family leave, and the other elements of what i think will build a strong economy that will ensure that americans making progress. that is what i'm offering. that is what i will do as president. >> senator sanders? how do you establish a list of what needs to be a progressive? sen. sanders: no, not at all.
here is the reality of american economic life today. the reality is we have one of the lowest voter turnout of any major country on earth, because sony people have given up on the political process. the reality is, there has been trillions of dollars of wealth going from the middle class in the last 30 years to the top 1/10th of 1%. the reality is that we have a corrupt campaign finance system which separates the american people's needs and desires from what congress is doing. to my mind, what we have got to do is wage a political revolution. where millions of people have given up on the political process, stand up and fight back, demand the government that represents us and not just a handful of campaign contributers. the ideas that i'm talking about
-- they are not radical ideas. making public colleges and universities tuition free -- that exist in countries all of the world. it used to exist in the u.s. rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure and creating 13 millions jobs by doing away with tax loopholes that large byporations now enjoy putting their money into the cayman islands and other tax havens -- that is not a radical idea. what we need to do is to stand up to the big money interests and campaign contributors. when we do that, we can in fact transform america. [applause] betty: we continue with charlie's interview. bowien is named rising star chef of the year from the james beard foundation in 2013.
his new book is called " the mission chinese cookbook." i am pleased to have danny bowien at this table. danny: i am pleased to be here. charlie: david chang is god around here. this is what he said any forward to this book. "i tried his food in san francisco before coming to new york. to be honest, i was upset this guy was doing something i wanted to do forever. but i got over my anger relatively quickly when i saw how well he was executing it. danny is genuinely innovative in how he thinks about chinese cooking. [laughter] danny: he is amazing. he was instrumental in me getting over a lot of fear of opening in new york. you look at this guy was just
going for it. it definitely helped when you come to new york and he signs off on something like that. it was crazy. it was scary. it's exciting and scary. then you just get down to it and do it. charlie: that is all it is. danny: it is really tough. charlie: but new york is the toughest? danny: honestly, every market is tough to crack in its own ways. but i think new york is really tough. but it is so rewarding because it is so tough. charlie: it is the enchilada. danny: the enchilada grande. charlie: your story was adopted by parents from oklahoma, from korea. danny: i was three months old when i was adopted. i grew up in oklahoma city.
it was a great town. i love being from there. charlie: they have a great festival team. -- basketball team. danny: they were not there when i was over there.i don't know any professional sports. my major was -- my mom was a major instruction. my dad worked for general motors. you limited. he worked there until he retired. -- he loved it. i had a pretty stable, great childhood. my mother's inspiration, even from cooking-- charlie: when she died? danny: i was 18. charlie: that was a huge moment for you. danny: it was pivotal. for the first time ever, my mom had provided for the family. she made food. as far as inspiration goes, i was always stay with her during the day. cook.d just watch her when she passed away i took over
the cooking responsibilities. charlie: you had a feeling for it, an instinct and it? danny: not really. i kind of enjoyed cooking, but it wasn't at the level of seriousness. i just liked making food. what i enjoyed the most was bringing people together. having people together was important for me. charlie: what is your schedule like? danny: i have a two-year-old. it started to level out. i think having my son helped me learn that i can't work in a restaurant 90 hours a week. my schedule is usually -- my wife and i trade who wakes up with him on certain days. i wake with him up on monday, thursday, and friday to go to daycare. he starts to sleep later, around 6:00. taken to daycare, go to work, check in with the first restaurant. charlie: what's the most surprising thing about being a father? danny: that it is difficult. [laughter]
charlie: that's not surprising. danny: any parent you know will say it's difficult. danny: the most surprising thing about being a father -- in a positive way, lately i've found that no matter what stresses me in life, when you see your child, it's amazing how uplifting that is. charlie: here is my comment on that. when you get married, you find someone whose life is as important as yours. when you have a child, you find someone whose life is more important than yours. danny: yeah, totally. you said it. it's so true. i found myself in a lot of ways. things about myself that i did not know. i had feelings i did know i have before. -- i had before.
being adopted, my parents are the ones i grew up with -- they are my parents. but i felt this connection with my son lately. charlie: i had not thought about that, adopted parents. you feel something about the blood thing differently. danny: it is kind of crazy. it is really amazing. it's my family. charlie: so you want more. danny: i don't know about that. [laughter] new york is tough -- anywhere is tough. one is good for now. charlie: what's interesting roar your career, did you out of oklahoma city into sentences -- into san francisco? danny: i would say i rushed. charlie: you wanted to go do things. danny: yeah, definitely. charlie: what was that thing you wanted to?
you wanted to be somebody? danny: i wanted to get out of oklahoma. i do not really attend college. i try to do and it was not for me. i played music. i was in a band for a long time. the band broke up. i do not have much. i was working for an optometrist's office. i thought i wanted to be an eye doctor. the school thing and i dr., you have to do those -- and eye doctor, you have to do those two things together. that i went to check out a culinary school. you have always been interested in food, why don't you check it out? i went there for five days. i was hooked. but not only on culinary school, but just that san francisco was amazing city. but yes, i did rush out of oklahoma. charlie: this is what anthony boarding has said about you. "mostly first-generation immigrants from asia or changing, redefining, and defining forever what american cuisine really is."
danny: that is nuts. this is crazy for me to hear, ch eng and bourdain. charlie: they think you have got something. danny: i mean, they have something for sure. charlie: but they think you have got something. danny: i think i have something too, finally. charlie: did success prove it to you? danny: i think success prove it to me. i think failure printed to you -- failure proves it to you, too. bourdain and cheng, it gets me every time. charlie: what is it that draws these people do you? you share something. danny: it is a non-smoking thing. we are all chefs.
-- it is a non-spoken thing. we are all created. with them and me, i have no idea. six years ago, i was just reading about these guys. they were my idols. they still are. charlie: you are there ido -- are their idol. danny: no, i am their friend. it takes me a second -- i never got the chance to soak it all in or realize what it is. it's nuts. charlie: you know what i say? keep at it, work hard, enjoy it. that is the secret. danny: that's the important thing, enjoying it. actually giving yourself the time to process everything. charlie: here's the other thing. sustained-- you've difficulties along the way. danny: yeah, totally. charlie: you come here and start mission chinese. and what happens? danny: well, a lot of good things happen. [laughter] but a lot of bad things happen.
we were opening a restaurant in new york for the first time anywhere. from date one it was difficult. when we got shut down by the health of government was the most difficult thing. we were near to operating. there was no excuse. we could limit on the building or the landlord or the tenants. -- could blame it on the building or the landlord with the tenants. it was eye-opening, for having someone to come in and say that we are closing the restaurant. for structural issues, for health code violations. that was crazy. it happened once, and then a second time. right after we reopened, we rushed to reopen, just because we did not know what to do. we tried our best bring the building up to code. now we are in a new space, we're good. but we tried to reopen there. we said that is is, we were
having trouble with the building. we stopped for a while. assion chinese was closed for year. it brings -- after a while it was like wow, this is happening. it made you appreciate it. it took a while. called -- theon i asrst person that called me w renee rosett. he says, what's going on? i was doing an event in san francisco. charlie: and he is in copenhagen. danny: he just calls me on the phone. i did not even have his phone number. he says, are you ready? and i said, for what? and he said, i don't know, they are going for you.
you have to be ready. they see you are wounded. you are the nicest guy and you have all the success, but they are going to come for you. make sure you are strong enough to handle it, and that you are resilient enough to come back. worldhe best chef in the tells you that, it makes it a bit easier to know that you have the support of your friends. charlie: somebody knows where you are. danny: yeah. and that helped out. efter that happened -- ther was no question we were going to get back on her feet again. charlie: what about today? the campaign a success as. --campaign is a success. danny: i feel like today is a success. i have a beautiful family. i made it through everything. we are successful. charlie: are the people in oklahoma city thrilled to death? danny: i hope so.
every time i go back, it is great. we're going to do a book tour in a couple months. charlie: talk about the book, "the mission chinese cookbook." you call it a dialogue about food. danny: we started writing this book three years ago. charlie: you and christine. -- chris ying. danny: yes, before i moved to new york. we were opening a new restaurant here. the book was sold then. anthony boarding -- anthony bourdain. through anthony bourdain. the good thing about doing this book, anthony said we were great, just do whatever you want. it took three years to write because the restaurant closed. writing that book, we opened the restaurant, close to twice,
reopened two restaurants. it is a dialogue about what mission chinese food is. we wanted to keep track of what was happening. charlie: what is mission chinese food? danny: my life? [laughter] we wanted to keep a journal for ourselves. just to keep track of everything happening. charlie: i have alluded to this. "what followsin, is not just a cookbook. yes there are recipes for some of the most dangerous, flavor packed dishes you are ever likely to find, yes. but it's also a uniquely american story about how to do everything wrong and have it end up brilliantly, gloriously right." that is your story. danny: very kind words. that sums it up, though.
it is true. getting all success we had out of the gate and losing a lot of that success -- it could have gone really badly. it is an amazing story. i am happy that i am here. charlie: you still love to cook. danny: i love to cook still. it got kind of dark for a minute. when i found that when everything seems wrong, i can just cook. everything can give you going wildly wrong my life, but if i can just cook, everything seems ok. that is what is beautiful about food and cooking. for me, it really centers me. charlie: thank you for coming. danny: no, thanks for having me. charlie: danny bowien, back in a moment. stay with us. ♪
>> there is no more venerable institution in american politics vein enhancer primary. 100 years old, and since 1952, it is been essential to the nomination of the most all presidents. predicting the outcome of new hampshire and what do these independent-minded voters will do is about as safe as picking the winner of the lottery. but next tuesday, new hampshire will somehow shake up and shape the 20 16th presidential race. charlie, we are with 3 people
that have the mind and heart of over 50 years experience with his wonderful primary. the editor of the main test the manchester union, the largest newspaper in the state. they have endorsed chris christie in this primary. sullivan, former cochair of the democratic party in new hampshire, with lots of fruits in the state. a hillary clinton supporter. tim roth the former attorney general and former everything, who is a john kasich reporter. thank you all for joining us. why new hampshire? what is the value of having the first primary here, john? joe: the answer is why not? but the involvement, the civic involvement of people. we will have 70-75% vote. these folks take this very
seriously. it's not a republican or democrat thing. it is our most prized political process. nobody else will spend not just the week between iowa and new hampshire, but the time between they leave and the next one, starting the field, getting to know the field. it is one thing to show up the week before. six months ago they were running events in july. before taking time out to go. it was a smart, informed -- inv olved, very engaged. al: the old line, are you going to vote for me next tuesday? i've only met you 3-4 times. kathy: it is a small state and candidates are forced to interact with voters. once you leave new hampshire, you go into a bubble. if you become president, you live in a bubble. fortunately, people are not forced to act real, everyday
voters the way they are in new hampshire. if you're going to elect a leader, that leadership should have to talk to and learn from the voters. you have to do that in the venture. -- in new hampshire. >> any other state, where can you find some thing that on the sizemerica that you can get around and meet people? we talk about rotating regional primaries, in which case an underfunded candidate would have no chance whatsoever. it would all the tv. -- all be t.v. no retail politics. new hampshire gives them the chance to do that. i used to say that new hampshire was the first place that voters could meet the candidate. now it's the last place where you get that physical contact. al: how different is it today than 50 years ago? has the primary changed? tom: the influence of media is much greater. the predominance of polls has
changed. we are being told now what the agenda is. now they are saying, here all these things. because of what the polls are saying, you are about to drop out. joe: and they are often wrong. i run the ronald reagan was upset about george h.w. bush in iowa. he said he was going to lose new hampshire big. boy, did it be done in exchange over just a couple days. >> the dynamics changed because reagan showed himself to be a vital, virile guy. very few people still catch on to this. he copped a great line from a spencer tracy movie in the 1940's. paying for this microphone. but he pulled it off.
bushs strong, and george staff on stage not annoying-- sat on stage not knowing what to do. campaignwas the last with your predecessor, william loeb. boy, he really left a a footprint, shall we say. he was not shy. joe: i don't think it was his last. the washington post profiled him a week ago, saying that he endorsed a candidate seven years after he died. [laughter] so i'm waiting for him to endorse someone else. al: your paper is still very conservative. but it's different than it was in the loeb era. joe: it does because we don't have william loeb. he was a one-of-a-kind guy. one page editorials.
acronyms. gene mccarthy, 1968, whose campaign was run by my dad's cofounder of the new hampshire sunday news. he was called by loeb on the front page a skunk. and a skunk's skunk. as my father up to the anti-to where he was a -- upped the ante to where he was a skunk's sku nk's skunk. they said they were fair to him in the news columns, even though he was the underdog. he appreciated that. al: one of you mentioned before, the media is all over the place now. you could come up with many reports. there was the union leader. tom: year after year, these guys would cultivate sources.
teddy white probably invented that. al: we talked about unpredictability. kathy,ur years ago hillary clinton was supposed to be gone. the polls, we mentioned the polls, showed obama winning by 10-11%. that is not unique. these voters are very independent-minded. kathy: that was my favorite primary of all. that was all hillary clinton. she just went out and worked every day, going to retell events, going to town halls. displaying that great grasp of knowledge. they had president obama sitting on his weight. he wasn't doing a lot of town
halls or meeting with voters. but she was out there. even up to the last day, she was out on the street near wmur television to get drivetime coverage. polls weren't closing until 7:00 or eight on, shaking hands with windows and cars. al: one of the reasons the polls are not as reliable, you have as many as 40% of the people that will vote next tuesday as independence. you have same-day registration. i've heard stories of independence choosing between donald trump and bernie sanders. i was in a town hall with my candidate. a woman in the front row asked the question. he said, i've seen you at several of my town halls. and he said, i went to the question if you promise to vote for me. and she said, will you are one of the 3. [laughter] where the polling is
wrong. everybody knows when the primaries going to be. when they say on the phone, if the election were today -- and they know it's not today, and they answer honestly, but they reserve the right to change their mind. seen things change quickly. 10 points can move in the last week very quickly. no poll is good enough to catch it. what is amazing is that there are all these thousands of individual decisions that get made at the same way. that is because everybody has paid attention. everybody studied it. al: let's talk about about the state. the common image of new hampshire from most people that --nt know, the almost rural this is a very affluent state?
you have a pretty darn good economy placed to most places. under the present --under 3% unemployment. joe: the manufacturing has changed from making uniforms for civil war soldiers to making shoes. now bae and other high-tech companies making incredible things. there is a guy named dean kamen, and inventor that owns a lot of milliards face. he comes up with insulin pumps and robotic arms for veterans. i don't know all about this state. we had a story last week in the sunday news about the new hampshire electorate, and about how much is new since just four years ago. new hampshire is a place where the nativeborn were in the minority. now it is an incredible minority. and to kidshere,
move away and other people come in. those undecided voters -- i pity the people with candidates trying to figure out, who are you going to target, how are you going to target? al: let me ask you about the economy. looking at the data, it is very good. is there a feeling that it is good? joe: no. a lot of the jobs are not old manufacturing jobs that paid well, where you could get by on a high school education. , taps into that. -- trump taps into that. even hillary and burning or saying it's not what it should -- and bernies are saying it's not what it should be. they wrap radically different solutions to the problem. al: we don't want to talk about the outcome next tuesday. but trump would not appear to be a natural new hymns or candidate. what is his appeal? -- new hampshire candidate.
tom: there is a nervousness in the electorate, and he brings up that anger. he was in an overt, his first returned since iowa. -- he was in milford, his first returned since iowa. name on theeone's news. i am not so sure that all these people are new hampshire voters. joe: the first time he came for interview, i greeted him at the door. he was looking over my shoulder. i turned around and 2/3 of my staff was standing there. my son explained, dad, he is a celebrity tv start, he's a business brand and now he's a presidential candidate,. he naturally attracts people the way pt barnum used to. 11--0 of
is the state now more of a blue state? kathy: we are still purple. we have elected a democratic dinner since 1996 our legislature has been democratic. we are a purple state and will continue to be a purple state for a long time. al: who do you think will win the primaries? kathy: i'm going to go out on a limb and give the edge to christie. al: oh my gosh. tom. [laughter] tom: i think it is significantly closer than the polling. i continue to believe that hillary clinton will win. joe: tom is right that it's much closer. in 2008, i thought hillary would be obama because she is so strong with women, who, like it
or not, they want a woman president. i think she will win by being close. set thenist here has expectations game for hillary. i think she's going to get a win out of it if she comes within a couple percentage points. al: this has been wonderful. the eyes of the world will be on new hampshire next tuesday. i doubt you will disappoint. we look forward to being here four years from anow. you. you all 3 fof we will be back in just a minute. ♪
charlie: some of history's greatest artist, writer's, and musicians have struggled with mental illness and bipolar illness. they include van gogh and others . "touched with fire" is a new film that explores the connection between manic depression and creativity. told the story of marco and carla, two bipolar poet that fall in love in a psychiatric hospital. here is a look at the trailer. [knocking] >> hey. >> i just wanted to talk. >> fire. it went out last night. >> my mind moves in tune with the lunar shift. >> sunburns on the tip of the moon. >> what is going on? >> i'm going up in flames. >> i'm just trying to figure out
who i am. me here. keep >> no no no. >> this is a hospital for sick people. >> i understand why you would be here. you look very sick to me. it's in your face. >> we have two new people today. >> i go by luna, my poet's name. >> they're all crazy. >> we're not from here, you and me. >> these crazy connections between bipolar and artistic genius. >> is it true that neither of you thinks you are from this planet? >> you are not healthy for one another. >> i don't think it's such a bad thing to feel like this deepest
emotion-- insanity is love. you have to be crazy to be in love. >> you are not willing to make any sacrifices. >> are you willing to stay, c arla? ♪ >> the closer to each other they move, the brighter they sine. as we race through the day on that flame. joining me now, the writer and director. luke kirby, and psychologist, dr.friend of the program,
kay jamison. we should talk about you and all film.ed this >> when you get diagnosed, you go experiencing what you are certain is some kind of divine illumination. sometime you are thrown into a hospital, pumped full of drugs. you come down 60 pounds overweight, completely disoriented. they tell you no, that was nothing divine. you just have triggered a lifelong genetic illness, which will swing you from psychotic highs to suicidal lows. and you will probably fall into the 1 in 4 suicide statistic unless evil into the -- unless you take the medications. thaneeling sad is worse not feeling pain. you are building a lifetime of your identity within the lake place --
to be told that you are certain humanitye a defect of and will at best be able to get by. it's life shattering. the only labels you have to choose from are some form of a disorder -- manic depression, bipolar disorder. you scrape through every clinical book trying to find answers. that is exactly what i did. peeling through these clinical books, which were all these wherestic, medical texts, it felt like i was under a microscope someone in a lab coat judging me. i come across her book. "touched with fire." it was this beautiful, artistic book, talking about the gifts and correlations that come with artistic creativity and bipolar.
it wasn't at all clinical. it was written like poetry. it was illustrated like a painting. it just blazed through all of the thick clinical printed ink, rigidly scripted in these books. this label, that for the first time was something redeeming and i could be proud to be. okay, i can be "touched with fire," i can go with that. -- as a completely complete rebirth of who i was. at the same time we journey between romanticizing it -- between romanticizing it. the overmedicated, unable to let go iof it. trying to keep my life stable, it was basically a waiting room for death. i remember not being able to cry
when my aunt died. the film came about this love story between these two characters that bring out in each other all the beauty and horror of their condition. the love gets more and more intense the further they go into the relationship, until at some point it burns to write -- it burns too bright to sustained. charlie: where are you today? kay told me i would be. when i met kay, she told me -- it was just after my doctor told me i will be able to be happy. you can be happy on the medication. i was like, can you introduce me to one person that you know that is stable, that is medicated? if you do, i will be very helpful and will actually fight for it. until then, i feel like i'm getting by it.
he cannot produce one person, but he was friends with kay, so he introduced me to me. she told me. i was reading the book "exube rence," which she wrote. how could this person, bipolar on meds, write about exuberance like this? she said that i will definitely feel that again. she also said something that was illuminating for me. just about every artist chinos more artist ishe knows is creative after bipolar than before once they were on the kids. i have this gift, but i don't have to kill myself for it. it's took years, but now i generally feel more emotion than i did before bipolar. it feels more meaningful than it does when i was manic. the motion is tied to life and a child, things that sustain and better.
i am much more creative than i ever was when i was manic or before bipolar. to the point where i can honestly say if i was offered a cure, i would not take it.i consider it that much of a gift. charlie: the decision to make a film. >> that was mostly the stigma. and seeing people look at people like me, and not knowing what is in our hearts. i was always inspired by the van gogh quote, "people look at me like a non-entity, like an eccentric, but i would like to someday show through my work what an eccentric has in his heart." when you walk by a man homeless in the street, gazing up at the sky with bloodshot eyes and a crazy smile, you might distance herself. you might want to the other side of the street. you might look away.
mosthen you have seen the beloved images of the sky through the van gogh's painting at that moment, if you can see where that homeless man is seeking, you won't look at him that way anymore. charlie: this film is dedicated to bipolar artists. william blake, slowly -- sylvia plath, robert ferguson-- sexton,nd, and procedurally -- percy shelley. conrad,omas, joseph herman hesse, herman melville, tchaikovsky, it goes on and on. jackson pollock, georgia o'keeffe -- it goes on and on.
understand the link between bipolar and creativity. dr. jamison: it is complicated. some of those people probably had just depression over. charlie: not bipolar, just depression. -- depression alone. charlie: dr. jamison: one of the ongoing controversies was about the relationship to depression. one is temperament. there is a certain boldness, capacity high-energy for some people with bipolar. if you look at the studies, what is striking is the rapidity of thought. when people begin to get manic, they are thinking speeds up. they have more and more associations and more unusual associations. if you speed summary of that is
not already -- speed somebody up that is not already creative, you are just speeding them up. but if you have somebody creative and give them this high-energy state, they are very determined to do something. going after the highest goals and aspirations. that goes along with the temperament as well. the capacity to feel. if you ask writers what the contribution of the illness is, acknowledge rising -- acknowledging the legality of it, that range of experience from ecstasy, the communal sense with the universe, and experiencing is high-stakes. and the compassion that they feel from having gone through the horror of psychosis and depression. charlie: this is the first clip. the relationship with their parents from the film. share, we areboth
the only ones that can relate to each other. beautiful. >> i understand that. >> excuse me, you understand that? remember the doctors told us. >> let's face it. if they signed up for a dating website and they put on mentally ill, it's not like they're going to attract a whole lot of people, "that's my soulmate." maybe this is a chance for them to have a real relationship. if they stay on the medication, quite frankly, i have no problem with it. >> that is the whole issue, right? >> mom, can you just listen to him? >> okay, just zip up. >> listen, you know that it's going to take time. the doctor has said that eventually you're going to feel a wide range of normal emotions. >> how does he know he's not taking the meds? >> the doctor does not take the
meds, you know that. >> how can i trust him? why is it says a bad thing to feel life with the deepest emotion? i don't think that's a problem. >> it's an illness. >> well, maybe for you, because you have a little emotional capacity, so for you-- >> wait a minute, i don't have a level emotional capacity-- lithium, orthe med is it more? dr. jamison: lithium is still the gold standard. there are a slew of medications. people need to take several. charlie: back to the argument, impact theehow person by taking the meds? dr. jamison: there are absolutely consequent is. you would lose your credibility as a physician if you said otherwise. these are drugs that affect the brain.
therefore they affect energy and sleep and mood, all the things that make us human. the illness is very destructive to the brain. series, from your brain when you take scans of people with one manic episode versus many episodes. it is a progressive illness. nobody is going to be creative 10 years down the pike if they are unstable in 4 point restraints in a hospital or dead. charlie: what do you say to those that resist because it will somehow depress their creativity? dr. jamison: i say that is a completely legitimate question. i would be concerned, too. the studies that we have indicated that people are more productive and creative after they've been taking medication. we know that people can be kept
at a much lower level of medication. psychotherapy is very useful in conjunction. at all thatevidence you will be able to survive bipolar illness you aren't being treated. charlie: luke was simply reading havingd with fire" and many dialogues with paul. was that all you needed to prepare for this? >> probably. maybe a bit of life experience as well. mostly it was that. mostly it was me and paul walking circles around each other. charlie: just talking and talking. luke: slowly coming to an understanding. charlie: for you to understand him. luke: for me to understand him. and to release the rings and build on that understanding, and have it manifest physically and emotionally. somehow we could
identify the genes were bipolar -- the genes for bipolar and do something about them, would you be in favor of that? dr. jamison: certainly getting more accurate and early diagnosis so that people don't suffer from it. and developing much more specific medications, yes. the editing -- if you're you're talking about getting rid of this line, absolutely not. complexity of an illness that is , that is related high-energy, risk-taking, creativity -- is not something you want to mess around with.
john: i'm john heilemann. mark: i'm mark halperin. with all due respect to john kasich, no use fighting with the media. good evening from snowed-in new hampshire. a granite classic day. snowy roads have caused donald trump and other presidential candidates have to cancel or delay campaign events. in our studio in manchester. we will go over a lot with you tonight. sanders and clinton are speaking to over 5000 party activists in a dinner tonight across the street from here. donald trump gets to join his colleagues on the republican debate stage tomorrow night.