tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN September 13, 2011 1:00am-2:00am PDT
divided about this, in terms of the dynamics of this race within the republicans, there's no question that romney and perry will remain the front-runners, romney has a better command of the facts. he gave one of the best answers of his entire campaign when he was asked how he would balance the budget. but perry has the command presence, and even though people took shots at him as you said, he deflected reasonably well, he came in as a better debater. he talks a lot of texas. he's going to need to move beyond texas. he's going to have to beef himself up on the international side. i would have to tell you, rick perry walked in here as a front-runner tonight. and i imagine he walked out as beat himself up on the international side. i have to tell you, i think rick perry walked in here as a front-runner tonight and i imagine he walked out as the front-runner. it is 10:00 eastern time.
we're live with the special edition of ac 360. the debate wrapped up in tampa, florida. a lot to talk about. jobs, social security, healthcare. some surprising moments as well and pointed an contentious moments. we have an analysis of the key moments of the debate in case you missed it. we'll take a look at the facts thrown out in the heat of the debate. see if there was truth to them. see if -- we're keeping them honest. a look at memorable moments from tonight's debate. take a look. >> it's been called a ponzi scheme by many people long before me. no one has had the courage to stand up and say here is how we're going to reform it. >> the term ponzi scheme i think is over the top and unnecessary and frightful to many people. >> the question is, do you still believe that social security should be ended as a federal program as you did six months ago when your book came out and return to the states or do you want to retreat from that?
>> i think we ought to have a conversation. >> we're having that right now, governor. we're running for president. you said if people did it in the prief sector, it would be called criminal. that's in your book. >> what i said was -- >> i'm not particularly worried about governor perry and romney frightening the american people when president obama scares them every single day. i've been told by some people you can't get that done. i say why? well, because you don't know how washington works. yes, i do. it doesn't. it's easy to turn around this economy just to have the backbone to do it. >> does governor perry deserve any credit for all the jobs created in texas? >> sure. >> tell him how much credit he deserves. >> i think governor perry would agree with me, if you have four aces, it doesn't necessarily make you a good poker player.
>> governor perry, you were dealt four aces. >> i was going to say, mitt, you were doing pretty good until you got to talking poker. >> congressman paul, you're from texas, does your governor deserve all that credit in. >> not quite. i'm a taxpayer there. my taxes have gone up. our taxes have doubled since he's been in office. i don't want to offend the governor because he might raise my taxes or something. >> the drug company gave thousands of dollars in political donations to the governor and this is just flat-out wrong. the question is, is it about life or was it about millions of dollars and particularly billions for drug company. >> it was a $5,000 contribution that i had received from them. i raise about $30 million. if you're saying that i can be bought for $5,000, i'm offended. >> i'm offended for all the little girls and the parent that didn't have a choice. that's what i'm offended for. >> you just heard social security emerges a hot button
issue. they were talking about vaccinations. rick perry called social security a ponzi scheme. romney and perry went head to head each accusing of scaring the seniors. back live, john king host of john king, usa, david gergen and the chief political analyst -- eric eric son of red state.com and paul la gala. ari fleischer. and roland martin. i don't know how many folks we have. i lost count. we just talked to john king. john, there's one particular exchange on social security between rick perry and mitt romney that got a lot of people's attention. we heard a bit of it before. i want to play the extended version right now. >> but the question is, do you still believe that social security should be ended as a federal program as you did six months ago when your book came out and return to the states or do you want to retreat from that?
>> i think we ought to have a conversation -- >> we're having that right now. we're running for president. >> are there ways to move the states into social security, for state employees or retirees? we did in the state of texas in the 1980s. i think those types of thoughtful conversations with america rather than trying to scare seniors like you're doing and other people, it's time to have a legitimate conversation in this country about how to fix that program that's not bankrupt and our children actually know there's going to be a retirement program for them. >> governor, the term ponzi scheme is what scares seniors, number one, and number two, suggesting that social security should no longer be a federal program and return to the states and unconstitutional is likewise frightening. there are a lot of very bright people who agree with you. that's your view. i happen to have a different one. i think that social security is an essential program that we should change the way we're funding it to make sure --
>> you said if people did it in the private sector -- >> did what? >> it would be called criminal. that's this your book. >> what i said was -- [ applause ] governor perry, you got quote me correctly. you said it's criminal. what i said congress taking money out of the social security trust fund is like criminal and that is and it's wrong. john, do you think social security has become at this point the key hot button issue or something coming up throughout the primary? >> without a doubt. here's why. number one, if you listen to these tea party voters in this room, many of them agree with governor perry, especially with what governor perry wrote in his book, fed up and said in interviews after that. they think social security is unconstitutional and they would prefer a transition where 20, 30 years from now it's returned to the -- >> he was not asked a yes or no. he had because of the pressure
to write an article in the usa today, he said tonight he wants to reform the program but not touch anybody -- governor romney believes this is a vulnerability much the challenge is a lot of republican primary voters, especially tea party voters are more with governor perry's position on this. what governor rom mi is trying to prove, he's trying to make the case that this would make governor perry unelectable. in a state like florida, pennsylvania, even iowa, where you have a higher population of senior voters, governor romney is trying to make the case, if you want the candidate with the best chance of beating barack obama, a candidate who can be viewed as someone who who would abolish or social security is unconstitutional. governor perry standing by what he said. he said the issue is reforming it. but look for this to continue on what he said in the book. not what he said in the essay. the fact he thinks the founding fathers would turn in their
grave. that social security shouldn't be there. governor perry now wants to talk about fix it. not whether he would support it being there in the first place. this will continue. >> i want to bring in a round rob into get impression of what you heard from the panelists. eric ericson, what are your headlines going to be on red state.com? >> well, i think this may be the first debate where romney didn't come out the clear winner. rick perry came out strong. everyone held themselves to the end and perry needed to do well. i think he did well. i don't think the social security exchange helps romney at all. i think he's foolish to continue it. he may want to go after perry on hpv or i am dprags. i think the majority believe with perry. for the life of me, i can't understand why he would go with this. governor roland, your take. >> if you're ayala continue owe
voter, the last thing you want to hear is some of the things you heard. colorado, new mexico, arizona will be -- the gop did themselves no favor in trying to curry with latino. so much emphasis, talking about social security, talking about a balanced budget, most of the -- >> it came up in abolished in the department of education. >> right. that's the only moment it came up. frankly, if you're a parent trying to get your kid educated. they didn't speak to the crisis when it comes to education. major failure in that not coming up. gloria bore jer? >> i think anderson what we saw was this race is far from over. there's an internal fight going on in the republican party whether or not constitutional. i don't think -- i don't think that question got answered by governor perry tonight.
it's something he and mitt romney will engage on in the future. i think romney started chipping away at the economic miracle of the state of texas and it's clearest going to continue to go back at that. he said, you know, when you're dealt four aces, it's easy to win the hand. i remember that. >> ron paul did that pretty effectively as well saying i live in texas, my taxes have doubled. >> i remember that happened with michael dukakis talking about the massachusetts miracle. they chipped away at that. that was a big problem for him. i think we saw perry really on the defensive and everybody on the attack on him. he's going to get used to it. paul in. >> remarkable study of contrast between mitt and rick. mitt was cool, rick was hot. mitt was factual and rick was a little more emotional. it was really an interesting study in contrast between the two of them.
the real question is, which party, not who won but which party. if this is still the party of investment bankers who carry a putter at the country club, well then mitt romney wins. if it's the party carrying a pitchfork to the tea party rally, rick perry wins. certainly in the hall, i was watching on tv, but in the hall it sounded from the audience like a strikingly conservative, really almost radically conservative audience which only helps rick perry. >> although, paul, wouldn't you say that rick perry certainly seemed to have stumbled on the hpv vaccine issue, in the hall, his stance was not popular at all? >> this is in fact, i think, long-term, strategically, the real achilles heel for rick perry. that's where michele bachmann took it. she took it to crony capitalism. she didn't say this is -- she didn't say it's to small government conservatives, although it is. she suggested, she implied and said, i want to quote her, she said this is because the
governor's chief of staff was the chief lobbyist for this drug company. she's trying to suggest that he will depart from conservative values. rick perry is speaking now to a group. let's listen in for a bit. >> we don't need you monkeying around and fiddling around and getting in our business on every kind of regulation you can dream of. you're doing nothing more than killing jobs. it's a cemetery for jobs at the epa. mr. cain hit the spot, he said you need to put somebody in who is a pro job, pro american administrator and tell them every day, this is going to be about creating jobs in america. then we need to have a little conversation about taxes and how we're going to lower the tax burden on the job creators out there. both the corporate side and the personal income tax side. >> so paul, i want to let you finish up what you're going to say and move on.
>> if this notion begins to take hold, perry conservative might sell out the conservative principles because he's connected to a lobbyist, then mrs. bachmann may be able to get back in the race and mr. romney may press the argument. when i talk to people in texas, they think perry's vulnerability is not ideology or talent. ari fleischer, your thoughts before we go to break. >> i think that republicans have to be a little careful here that social security is not the defining issue that divides them in this primary. they have to remember to bring it back to barack obama, to jobs, to debt and deficits. this is the core strength that made republicans so strong in this cycle. they will come back for the social security debate, the romney people love it and the perry people want to engage in it. it's a given. the bigger perspective cannot be lost as the candidates move forward in this debate. >> we'll have more from the panelists in a moment. we'll come back to them throughout the hour.
let us know what you think about what happened. go to twitter at anderson cooper. i'll try to join on the conversation on-line at anderson cooper. rick perry said the $800 billion stimulus package created zero jobs. you can have a republican debate without the name obama coming up. ari said obama's name should have come up more. we'll get her reaction in tampa as well. [ female announcer ] there was a time when poker night... was what you looked forward to all week. - oh, wow! cool! cool! - whoa! so who'd have ever thought boys night out... wouldn't hold a candle to boys night in? having a baby changes everything.
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we'll have a lot them over the next 24 hours and on cnn.com. your one big one came fairly early on when all the candidates were going after the president over jobs. lit listen to what rick perry said. >> he had $800 billion worth of stimulus in the first round of stimulus. it created zero jobs. 400-plus billion in this package and i can do the math on that one. half of zero jobs is going to be zero jobs. >> that was the kind of red meat out there that got people excited. in a nutshell, what the governor is saying is that the stimulus created zero jobs, but the congressional budget office very trusted here says that's just not the case. they say it's between 1.4 and 3.3 million jobs created or saved by the stimulus program. i realize that sounds squishy because there's a broad range. but many independent economists
also say there's no question that jobs work -- was created or protected by the stimulus spending. as much as the governor would like to say, his statement is true. when we look at it, we have to say no, that is flat-out false. the stimulus did create some jobs, maybe not as many as it wanted but it did create jobs. you also heard all of the governors out here, anderson, talking about the jobs created in their state under their governorship. important fact to look at there, look at the national trends while they were governors. in fact, some of them created jobs but sometimes the national trend was created jobs or maybe they lagged behind the federal government. it gets squishy in those numbers. anderson? >> we'll continue to check in with you. we'll do this over the next 24 hours. checking the facts of what the candidates said. candidates took president obama to task tonight on everything from jobs to healthcare. take a look. >> i'm not particularly worried about governor perry and governor romney frightening the
american people when president obama scares them every single day. >> it's unconstitutional. whether it's the state government or whether it's the federal government, the only way to eradicate obama care is to pull it out by the root and branch to fully repeal it. >> this president does not understand how to free up the small businessmen and women or for that matter, wall street. >> what the president did was simply wrong. it is the wrong cars for america. >> some people say that barack obama's recovery is a disaster. it would have to make n improvement to be a disaster. debbie wasser schultz joins us live from tampa. you heard the remarks. the criticisms aren't just from republicans. the majority of americans disapprove on how president obama is handling his job -- how he's handling the economy. is 2012 becoming increasingly
difficult race for democrats, you think? >> well, anyone listening to the debate tonight, anderson, watched the republican candidate as expected worship at the altar with the tea party. as a that ffloridian, i was looo see what they would do to create jobs and turn the economy around. how would they help middle class, small business owners. none of that. more of the same doubling down on proposals like repealing wall street reform. for good measure, saying let's invest social security and privatize it. put it in the stock market. give the same wall street folks the money that is supposed to be the safety net for retirees and let them gamble it away in the stock market. that's not acceptable when it comes -- >> when you say repealing obama care, they say it would save jobs. >> oh, really? well, i find that interesting. what repealing healthcare reform o do, especially to seniors in florida, is it would eliminate
the closure of the doughnut hole. it would cost seniors about $3,000 in more -- in additional prescription drug costs. it would get rid of the wellness visit that's now free. it would get rid of preventative screenings that don't have co-pays. so the list goes on. it would leave people with preexisting conditions like i have twisting in the wind because insurance companies could drop us or deny us coverage again. the republicans demonstrated how out of touch they are. then at the end for more good pressure when ron paul was asked a question about whether or not a 30-year-old without healthcare coverage, if he was sick for six months should be allowed to die, people in the audience from tea partiers yelled out, yes. that's how out of touch this crew is. >> michele bachmann said tonight that president obama, quote, stole over $500 billion out of medicare to spend on his federal health reform package. your response to that? >> healthcare reform added eight
years of solvency to medicare. according to cbo, that's how many years were added to the solvency of medicare. we made sure that we cracked down on waste, fraud and abuse and made sure that we took the subsidies being given to health insurance companies that weren't giving anything in benefits back to seniors who are on medicare and made sure that we fut into direct healthcare benefits for them. that was an important reform for them as well. >> congressman debbie wasser man schultz. appreciate your time. thanks for being with us. >> thank you. back with john king, david gergen, among others. david, what do you make of what representative wasser man schultz said. >> i think she made a point that resonated back home with a lot of people on the question of the 30-year-old who is dying, being allowed to die. the kind of response and you'll recall in the last debate, governor perry made this point about executions in texas. there was a big applause.
it got a lot of commentary. my sense is that that exchange also will get some comment out there, anderson. because what i find so interesting is that people in this hall really did groove on much of what they heard. this is what they wanted to hear from these candidates. there are a lot of people around the country like the folks in this room. yet, there are a huge number of people, equal number of people who i think were horrified by what they heard in this room. they ought to keep these people locked up and don't let them out. don't let them do anything to the country. this race is increasingly, i think, bringing to light and once again how divided, how split we are and how hard it's going to be to govern had this is over. >> it was interesting, john, of all the candidates, the newt gingrich who got the most zingers in. i want to play something else he had to say. >> i think trying to raise the tax on working americans in the middle of the obama depression is a destructive policy. so i don't want to have anything
tax increase at any level for anyone. >> john, he does seem as if he's trying to, with each answer get as much attention as he can, kind of get as much traction as he can. but is it working in terms of his overall campaign? >> he has had back to back to back strong debates. he is an ideas person, he draws sharp contrast. i think the problem the former speaker has had, is you have a republican party looking for new leadership. he's viewed as the last generation. by some republicans unfavorably, by others favorably. i think the think that binds all republicans together, at least so far if you look at the polls, they like his ideas and his contrast, but they think they need a new generation of leadership. that's how i see his challenge. to the point you were having with david, app der son, we're at a fs nating moment. everybody is placing a bet. debbie wasserman schultz was placing a bet that the american people would go to somewhere near 2008 where they elected --
if you listen to the conversation up here tonight, there's a also a bet. rick perry is making a bet the tea party will be just as strong in 2012 as it was in 2010. that he can go right, he can say social security should be returned to the states. mitt romney is making a bet that the establishment republican party, that used to be now we talk about the tea party. it used to be the evangelicals decide iowa, new hampshire is independents and libertarians and then states like south carolina, you have establishment: the old label was the country club republican party. it kicks in from south carolina on, south carolina has a huge impact on the race. nobody knows if the old rules apply because the tea party was such an anomaly, a new force. 2008 was a new force when you see obama beating clinton. we don't know. all of these candidates have to make a bet. what will the electorate be like. for the republicans it's in new hampshire, south carolina. for the democrats in november of
2012 as they attack the republicans. what will the electorate look like? we don't know. >> i also think what you're seeing is this fight within the republican party. i couldn't help but watch the debate and you saw john huntsman and mitt romney and they looked like the old time establishment republican candidates, struggling to kind of say, okay, this is the way we're going to take the party, mitt romney, it's his turn to be nominated. he ran last time. and then you saw the other candidates there saying, wait a minute, wait a minute, we're not going to go along with you. and then you saw rick perry essentially trying to walk both sides of that. saying you know what, yes, we passed the dream act in my state. yes, i ordered this vaccine for young women. something that tea party folks do not likement conservative republicans don't like. but trying to walk both sides of that and come across as somebody
who can appeal to independent voters, while also appealing to tea party republicans, that's very difficult. but that's what i think we saw rick perry try to do and we're going to see him continue to try and do that as he has to look at the general election. >> eric ericson to david gergen's point to how it played in the hole to a conservative tea party aud yents and how it maybe played to other republicans or independents, do you think there is that split between how it played in the hall and how it may have played to others maybe who are not coe conservative? >> probably so. i don't think that ron paul answering a question on letting the guy die played as well as some think. i didn't hear the applause as loud as many. i do think there's an issue that tea partiers have to be reminded of, how the rest of the nation sees them. to a degree they have to care. i do think john king is right. there's a great gamble going on.
perry is probably right, you had the president in 2008 make some sort of mocking reference to people clinging bitterly to their guns and religion. i think 2012 is the year those people probably replace himment. >> we're going to take a short break. we'll be back with the panelists. a lot more ahead as we look back. other key moments from the debate that just occurred on cnn. we'll be right back. and putting people before policies. aviva life insurance and annuities. we are building insurance around you.
workers. we're not going to get more workers until we actually have an economic plan led by someone who is actually done it before. >> repeal dodd frank, repeal obama care. it really isn't that tough if you try. it's easy to turn around this economy just to have the backbone to do it. >> i spent my life in the private sector. i've competed with companies around the world. i learned something about how it is economies grow. it's not just simple wave a wand and everything gets better. you have to make structural changes. >> he had $800 billion worth of stimulus in the first round of stimulus. it created zero jobs. 400-plus billion dollars in this package and i can do the math on that one. half of zero jobs is going to be zero jobs. >> back with us again. paul begala, ari fleischer, dana, joining us the conversation. dana, as a tea party supporter, who did you think was the standout for you tonight and on
jobs, who do you believe more? >> well, i think the overall standout, i have to say that i think romney and perry really went at each other. i think they kind of perhaps shot each other in each other's foot. i think bachmann ultimately, she had some of the solid, more solid answers of the night. i was really hoping she would come out aggressive. she expected to stay in or be in the top tier of candidates in this primary, she needed to be aggressive and have hard hitting answers. she need today go after other candidates. that's what she did. i thought she performed well. overall, i would give it to bachmann. gingrich always does well, but he's been doing this for a long time. in terms of jobs, who i believe the most, i have to say whenever herman cain spoke, he backed it up with a plan that he's already published on his website and sent out to various media and bloggers. so that was really interesting to see that too. romney, of course, romney, i thought despite his record in
massachusetts during his four years as governor, i thought he had some pretty solid answers when it came down to jobs. perry, i thought, did too. most of the time they spent going back and forth with each other. it was a distraction from what they would actually do. >> to dana's point, i want to play some of perry and romney sparring over job creation. >> i think if you're dealt four aces that doesn't necessarily make you a good poker player. four aces and the four aces that are terrific aces, the nation should learn from. zero income tax, low regulation, right to work state, oil in the ground and a republican legislature. those things are terrific. >> i was going to say mitt, you were doing pretty good until you got to talking poker. the fact is, the state of texas has led the nation. while the current resident of the white house has seen the loss of 2.5 million jobs.
texas has during my period as the governor, created over a million jobs. we did that during some pretty tough economic period. >> so roland, can rick perry take credit for job creation in texas? >> he can take credit for it, but as ron paul said, he's going to have to deal with a lot of those jobs being government jobs. also, wolf blitzer asked him the question when it came to tax cuts in the jobs bill, theers what -- governor perry used a stimulus bill, the first one in order to balance the texas budget. you can't stand on stage and condemn a bill that you used money to help balance your own budget. also, when you talk about the question of tax cuts, you can't stand there and talk about as a republican as -- i love tax cuts. but you can't even own up to the fact that 40% of that stimulus bill was tax cuts. a lot of the proposal that the president put forth last thursday. tax cut. at least own up to it.
versus avoid the question. that was a failure on many of the candidates to own up, to tax cuts in the president's plan. >>ary, is rick perry talking out of both sides of his mouth what roland is suggesting? >> oh, i think when it comes to jobs, everybody in elected office of both parties tries to claim credit for things they didn't do. much of the jobs created, as they did talk about by the private sector. anderson, let me get to the deeper dynamic underplay that's the fundamental split in the republican party being tested on this social security debate. that's where rick perry wisely is trying to make social security a broader issue than just social security and into character. republicans are also asking themselves if i vote for you, which one of you can i trust to really go to washington and make the biggest most fundamental conservative change. particularly in economics. perry's gamble is that the american people really do want to push for greater change and entitlement programs if they're ready for something fundamental. mitt romney's gamble is that they don't want to do anything
bigger fundamental. they really want an expert to go in and change things around the edges and make smart reforms. this is the big test. this is where john king's point before is valid. who is going to be in the ascendancy, the tea party movement to change washington or will it be the more conventional traditional republican? keep what's there but make it better, cost efficient? this is the dynamic that's in play right now in the republican party. >> paul, is that what you see as the guy nam i can as well? >> god help me for agreeing with fleischer. it must be wrong because i agree with him. i looked at poll numbers in the commercial break. this is the august cnn poll. i don't know if we have a newer one. the republican party's favorable rating was 33. now, the republican party is 157 years old. it took them that long to get down to 3. democrats about 47. not great but somewhat better. the tea party, we asked at the cnn poll, the tea party favorable is 31. it's negative -- 51. i think this is what david
gergen was alluding to earlier when he talked about independents and tra dig al republicans could be frightened by that fervor and that conservative activism. 31 favorable, 51 negative. it's exactly the same in our poll as nancy pelosi's. we saw her in ad after ad demonizing democrats for being affiliated with pelosi. i think democrats ought to link the republicans to the tea party, the republicans seem to want to be linked to the tea party but it's unpopular with mainstream america. we got to take a quick break. we'll have more. we'll check back with all of them throughout the program. another look at the candidates and the facts, keeping them honest. we'll be right back. that's a recipe for failed investing. open an e-trade account and open doors, seize opportunities, take action with some of the most powerful yet easy-to-use trading tools on the planet all built to help you maximize the potential of every dollar you invest. successful investing isn't done by throwing ideas against the wall and hoping. it's done by lowering your costs
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listen. >> we know the president obama stole over $500 billion out of medicare to switch it over to obama care. we also know that medicare hospital trust fund will be bankrupt within nine years. these are programs that need to be saved to serve people and in their current form, they can't. >> boy, that's quite a claim when you listen to that, anderson. the idea that in fact he stole over $500 billion of medicare. is that true? well, first of all, he didn't steal it. this is legislation. that's how it works. you may not like it. oncist approved, it's spent that way. this was not money taken from the benefits of medicare but rather it was an effort to try to save costs, particularly the hospitals and doctors over the next ten years to keep it from growing out of control. in addition, had she talked about the second part of the program, she's talking about a quarter of what medicare is all about. so it isn't the overall program. it's not the benefits in the program.
and it was about trying to contain costs. as much as she would like to say this statement is true. we have to say there was an awful lot of framing missing with it. it was at best misleading. >> appreciate it. keeping him honest. david gergen, ari fleischer, roland martin and dana lash. want to play some of bachmann's back and forth with rick perry about over the 2007 decision regarding the hpv vaccine which played well. >> governor perry, as you well know, you signed an executive order requiring little girls 11 and 12-year-old girls to get a vaccine to deal with a sexually transmitted disease that could lead to cervical cancer. was that a mistake? >> it was. indeed. if i had to do it over again, i would have done it differently. i would have gone to the legislature, worked with them. but what was driving me was obviously making a difference about young people's lives.
cervical cancer is a horrible way to die. >> i wanted to add that we cannot forget that in the midst of this executive order, there is a big drug company that made millions of dollars because of this mandate. we can't deny that. what i'm saying is that it's wrong for a drug company because the governor's former chief of staff was the chief lobbyist for this drug company. the drug company gave thousands of dollars in political donations to the governor and this is just flat-out wrong. the question is, is it about life or was it about millions of dollars and potentially billions for a drug cap snimt senator santorum hold off for a second. you got a response for that? >> the company was merck and it was a $5,000 contribution that i received from them. i raise about $30 million and if you're saying that i can be bought for $5,000, i'm offended.
>> well, i am offended for all the little girls and the parents that didn't have a choice. that's what i'm offended for. >> roland martin, obviously, that played very well to a conservative crowd. how do you think it played to maybe independents? >> look, here you have a governor who is saying, first of all, he's saying that if he had to do it again, he wouldn't do it. i think one of the mistakes he made was trying to keep coming back and defend it. once you've made clear, i would have gone to legislature. you leave it there. sometimes you have to take a hit when you know it's there. trying to explain it, it's not' riley good idea. but look, i still don't think, they can spend as much time as they want talking about this vaccine and this whole notion of a mandate. it's election when you appeal to independents, it will still come down to the issue of the economy. they spend so much time on these issues and then you're not really dealing with the whole notion of what is your specific
jobs plan, what is your point when it comes to education. what are you dealing with the poor, those who impoverished. guess what? that's going to drive this economy, not a vaccine in texas. >> clearly, michele bachmann just from what she said to john king earlier this evening after the debate, she clearly sees this as an issue that she can get at rick perry on. >> right. i think it's got a lot of different aspects to it. there's the question, it is christian conservatives, this vaccine. it's strongly supported by many public health experts in governor perry's defense. christian conservatives don't like it, it's inoculating against a sexually transmitted disease. government conservatives don't like it because there was an mandate. reformers of all strikes are troubled by this allegation mrs. bachmann of the close nexus between the governor and chief lobbyist at the time for merck. more and more, i think people will be pulling on that string. the texas economy wasn't as
great for working people in texas. rick perry's time in public office has been awfully good to him. i think that may become a thread that mrs. bachmann or others trying to get back in the race and slow down the front-runner will a dropt. we'll have more coming up and play the one time front-runner rick perry was actually booed tonight and a look at how it may have reshuffled the republican playing field. who is up, who is down and who may be dropping out next when we continue. imagine... one scooter or power chair that could improve your mobility and your life. one medicare benefit that, with private insurance, may entitle you to pay little to nothing to own it. one company that can make it all happen ... your power chair will be paid in full. the scooter store. hi i'm doug harrison. we're experts at getting you the power chair or scooter you need.
for many, the money was on front-runner rick perry, the texas governor took more than one hit tonight. listen to the audience's justifies the dream act for illegal immigrants attending college. >> if you've been in the state of texas three years, if you're working towards your college degree and if you are working and pursuing citizenship in the state of texas, you pay instate tuition there. and the bottom line is it doesn't make any difference what the sound of your last name is, that is the american way. no matter how you got into that state from the standpoint of if your parents brought you there or what have you, that's what we've done in the state of texas and i'm proud that we are having those individuals be contributing members of our society rather than telling them, you go beyond the government -- >> quick final thoughts from the pammists. we have so many. it's like a brady bunch box of panelists. start with dana loesh.
what do you think as you wake up tomorrow, you'll think back on tonight? >> rick perry needs to get better at defense. i can't believe he allowed romney to make peri care a bigger deal than romney care. while i didn't agree with the hpv it had an opt out. romney care did not. it was overlooked in this debate and perry allowed romney to turn this into a pile on him. he's going to get better at being defensive and giving good answers. paul begala. >> we saw that the tea party may be as george w. bush might say, a double edged six shooter. lots of energy, excitement and enthusiasm. kind of extreme positions that could hurt them with mainstream voters. >> roland martin? >> it's amazing what you heard governor rick perry's answer when it came to illegal i am granlts. it was the right answer it was the correct answer and i'm surprised all those tea party people forgot that ronald reagan
signed a deal allowing 3 million illegal immigrants in terms of amnesty. they tend to forget conservative history. smart move to attract latino voters in important states in 2012. wolf blitzer, i was impressed that governor perry didn't back off even from the not popular. like the immigration issue allowing children of illegal immigrants in the united states to get the instate tuition. on the vaccine he didn't really back away from that. on social security. when he takes a position, he's willing to stand up for that. i thought that was fascinating. he wasn't willing to back away from that. john king, the importance of this tonight? >> this debate is going to help us understand anderson, in a very important way, just what republican voters are looking for. governor perry's answer you played there, the boos on immigration, his position on hpv which he says he wouldn't do again. out of step especially with tea party states rights voters.
is that enough to chip away his lead in the poll? do they think, he's out of step with us on conservative issues or do they view him as the best candidate to go up against president obama and therefore, they're willing to forgive or forget some policy differences? >> interesting stuff. ari fleischer? >> this is still an extraordinarily fluid republican primary built on shifting sands. it's also going to help perry and romney. they both did well tonight, they both will have more money than opponents and the best organizations in the different states. one point on john huntsman who i still believe has a shot because he fits in the maverick model of new hampshire. he looks like he's having more fun. he reminded me of a school teacher whose classes you want to cut. he's got to have a little more fun out there. >> ouch. gloria boreger. >> i want to follow-up on wolf's point imt i think rick perry wants to be truth teller among
the candidates. that's what he was doing tonight. not backing down off his position. he also wants to convince republicans that he's the person to take the fight to barack obama and by not backing down on what he believes his campaign thinks that's going to help him. >> david gergen, we have about 30 seconds. >> anderson, the pig stobig sto the way rick perry burst on to the scene like a bright star seizing the lead. the question becomes does he flame out? we don't know yet. does he say things that get him in trouble or as paul begala suggests, are there things in the background that get him in trouble. we have to wait and see. fascinating that al sis. my thanks to the panelists.