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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  November 26, 2012 8:00pm-9:00pm PST

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that does it for this edition of "360." thanks for watching. erin burnett outfront starts now. people are taking to the streets. lawmakers back to work in the u.s. priority number one avoiding the fiscal cliff. the left and right are talking compromise. what does it mean? mike lee is out front. and susan rice headed to capitol hill to meet with her most outspoken critics, including john mccain to answer questions about what happened in bengha benghazi. let's go outfront.
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good evening. "outfront" tonight, egypt on edge. is a new dictatorship on the horizon? tonight, president morsi clarified, but really largely stood by his decision to grant himself sweeping powers. including freedom from judicial review for what he's calling presidential decisions. the announcement was made today after morsi met with members of egypt's judicial body, which has been very critical of his decision. and u.s. officials who just days ago were heaping praise on the new egyptian leader for his role in initiating a cease-fire between israel and hamas, well, now when he took all these powers away from judges that reign supreme, they're in a tough spot. >> we have some concerns about
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the decisions and declarations announced on november 22nd. democracy depends on strong institutions and the important checks and balances that provide accountability. >> so, today, there were nationwide protests continuing in egypt and a million person march of anti morsi protesters is scheduled for tomorrow in tahrir square. the very spot where the revolution that cleared the way for morsi's presidency was born. now, there was a planned counterprotest that was supposed to happen tomorrow. people thought the two happening at the same time could cause serious violence, but that was cancelled. and now morsi says his rule and word is more important than judges is just temporary. and not even is buying that. the cover of the egypt daily news website today proclaimed egypt's new pharaoh. the headline, morsi's rule, a chip off the old mubarak block? and here in the united states, a similar question from the atlantic. mohammed morsi abe lincoln in
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disguise or another mubarak? talk about two choices. and the stock market didn't think this was a good move either. it plunged 10%. stocks opened down today and barely moved up by the end of the day. so this new president in egypt in which the united states has placed so much hope, starting to look too much like the dictator he replaced and is he the leader of an islamist government that will become more and more extreme, threatening america? on the phone with us tonight, amir hamsami, the founder of egypt's freedom party, and ed hussein joins me. ed, i want to start with you. morsi was credited with brokering that cease fire between israel and hamas. it seems within hours, he swept away with all these powers, saying his word will ride over judges. was he emboldened taking advantage of his success? >> without doubt, he knew he had enough political capital to make this move and just before, he
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had signed a deal with the imf for a $4 billion loan program. he thought he had enough credibility now to go after the judges that it was rumored would somehow control his own powers on december 2nd. that's all that's going on in the background. but what he undermined and failed to understand, this is a new egypt in which nobody can get away without level of control and power around them without the street rising to be the check and balance that we've seen happen over the last three days. >> what is your point of view on this? is this something people in egypt will accept? >> definitely not. at least a broad segment of our population is not accepting it and is not accepting it for good reasons and key reasons. one, we have lived for 60 years under presidential sweeping powers and we have suffered from them. secondly, we elect democratically our presidents
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who acquire authorities which are more than enough for him to be an active president in shaping egyptian politics, in shaping domestic politics and regional politics. and he does not need additional prerogatives and authorities. thirdly, egyptians have always held the judicial branch of government in high regards and these are not like any lack of what -- of the judicial branch of government to be part of what our -- revolution is all about. >> could this be something that's good for you? as a former member of parliament, the judges needed to dissolve parliament, putting you out of your job and now that morsi's trying to seize power from the judges, is this something that could end up being good? >> no, let me tell you right away, i'm here speaking as a political scientist as well. countries which make it to success and transition to democracy after the revolution
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have always managed to build institutions and to respect the checks and balances. what morsi does is basically to freeze checks and balances. i'm not aware of any dictatorship which has been a dictatorship for two months or three months and countries have suffer suffered from dictatorship and have turned to democracy. if we freeze checks an balances, if we withstand them, i guess we will not make it and it's not going to be healthy to restore back a family that chamber of the parliament which i was a member of and was dissolved by a ruling of institution. by bringing back an assembly where we have prosecution. >> interesting he uses the word dictatorship. you don't normally see a dictatorship for a couple months. and he's not alone. people who are characterizing
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what morsi has done here as a dictatorship. "wall street journal" editorial page said the muslim brotherhood's man claims more power than even mubarak had. what's the risk to the united states if morsi becomes an islamic dictator? >> i think we should hold our horses. morsi is many thing, but he's not yet an islamist dictator. the fact the professor can speak in free times from cairo now is an indication that freedom of speech is still very much alive in egypt and also an indication that mubarak is no longer in power and you know, morsi is dependent on the u.s. for aid. dependent on the imf. international opinion will not allow for mubarak, for morsi to consolidate power around him. >> you said mubarak. >> freudian slip. >> what do you think about that? is morsi a long away way from being an islamist dictator? >> in terms of expression, i
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could speak to you three and four years ago from cairo and freely as i have done just right now and i did speak several times. criticizing measures and policies took and put forward by the president and his government. so in terms of freedom of expression, it's not a huge leap, but let me remind you as well of the fact that at least one chairman was closed in the last weeks in a step which we considered egypt to be negatively imposing a democratic limit on tv channels. however, if we sustain checks and balances, in the moments in which do not have a branch of government, and morsi is the president who has sweeping legislative and once again puts himself out in government.
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morsi is a president who has sweeping legislative and once again puts himself power and puts himself above the judicial branch of government. that is a very dangerous mix. which can only lead to the dictatorship. and we will not accept the dictatorship for a few weeks or months. and regardless of morsi's legislation, it needs to be brought down. >> thanks very much to both of you. we're going to be watching closely for those demonstrations of the million man march which protesters say they will be carrying out tomorrow in central cairo. next, congress returns to work after thanksgiving and the most important item still on their plate, it is a cold, nasty leftover. it's been a leftover for a couple of years, but now, you got to actually eat it.
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the fiscal cliff. there's been talk of a compromise, but no action. republican senator mike lee point-blank asked next. and on thursday, the u.n. is going to vote on whether to recognize palestine as a state. it's a move opposed by the united states and israel. can israel survive as a country if there aren't two states and without power for weeks because of sandy, long island residents were shocked when they got their electric bills. they add up. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.
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[ male announcer ] good choice business pro. good choice. why they have a raise your rate cd. tonight our guest, thomas sargent. nobel laureate in economics, and one of the most cited economists in the world. professor sargent, can you tell me what cd rates will be in two years? no. if he can't, no one can. that's why ally has a raise your rate cd. ally bank. your money needs an ally. or that printing in color had to cost a fortune. nobody said an all-in-one had to be bulky. or that you had to print from your desk. at least, nobody said it to us. introducing the business smart inkjet all-in-one series from brother. easy to use. it's the ultimate combination of speed, small size,
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and low-cost printing. our second story, legislative leftovers. congress returning to work with a lot on their plate. we're not talking about turkey. we're talking about the fiscal cliff. one of the urgent matters this lame duck congress needs to address before the end of the year and even though the tax increases are going to take effect in 36 days, there's still only talk of a compromise, so can congress actually walk the walk or are we going to go off this cliff?
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it is a very real risk, everyone. up next, mike lee of utah. really appreciate you taking the time. you wrote an op-ed in the washington times and said quote, delaying significant fiscal restraint will send the wrong signal and may serve as taping point for our economy. so you're fear is that interest rates could surge. to be father, we've had this disastrous situation for years and interest rates have kept falling in spite of all worries that there would be a disaster. >> that's right. that's one of the things that distinguishes the fiscal cliff, which we're coming up against right now. from what i described yesterday in my editorial in the washington times, the fiscal avalanche. we can see when the fiscal cliff is about to hit. we can't tell exactly when the avalanche's going to happen. the avalanche occurs when people stop buying u.s. treasury instruments and we have to start raising the interest rate. eventually, we get to the point
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where we can't afford anything and that's what i'm concerned about. >> so, let me talk about the solution here because we talked back in may about this. we're finally here at the deadline, right. you talked at the time about wanting a simpler tax system and were open to some people paying more and you said some in the republican tea party would be okay with that. here's you on this program back in may. >> i'd make it a point never to speak for my colleagues or counterparts in the house, but i'm not aware of anyone who would say that if one american might end up paying a little bit more, that would necessarily count them out. >> so, i want to understand what you mean. are you open to a compromise in which if you closed loopholes, some americans would pay more? >> yes, the point is, we need comprehensive tax reform. anytime you reform the tax code, you're going to want to do it in a way that stabilizes the tax base. you're creating a more reliable, sustainable base. that might mean some americans
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pay more, but that doesn't necessarily amount to a tax increase, what you're trying to do here is to stabilize the revenue stream. when you say it doesn't amount to a tax increase in the aggregate, that obviously is the center of this whole issue, especially when it comes to the pledge i know you signed with grover norquist. he said i'm okay with closing loopholes, but it has to be revenue neutral. but i think everyone knows that to get a deal done it can't be revenue neutral. are you open to a deal where you cut a lot of spending, and you raise some taxes and it is not revenue neutral? in fact you take in more tax revenue when you're done than when you started? are you open to that? >> what i'm open to is the idea of acknowledging the fact that we can bring in on average 18.5% of gdp through our revenue stream. that's what our tax system is capable of doing in the united states. that remains a constant. whether or top rate is at 35% as
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it is now, or at 70% as it was back in the early 1980s. that's a relative concept. what i want is for us to produce a steady stream of 18.5% rather than having these peeks and valleys. last year, we had a valley of about 14.5%. other years, closer to 20%. we want a steady, even, 18.5%. >> but to get from 14.5 to 18.5 is not revenue neutral. >> to get to there is not revenue neutral in the immediate sense, but what i'm saying is that if it produces on average 18% of gdp and that's going to keep us constant, that is arguably revenue neutral. in the long run, i think everyone would benefit. in the long run it would be revenue positive. not every tax increase brings about more revenue. sometimes you need to lower rates in order to bring in more revenue. >> just to understand where you stand on this, you know, it sounds to me like you're saying go against grover norquist, but you don't want to say it. but a lot of your colleagues are saying it, bob corker has said
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it, lindsay graham has said it. they've said they'll allow for more revenue via taxes, close loopholes, however you do it, that isn't revenue neutral. you're saying you agree with that, at least now. but not in the long-term, correct? >> yeah, look, i'm saying there are a lot of ways to skin a cat and we need comprehensive tax reform. you have to look at something carefully to decide whether or not you think it is an aggregate tax increase, so it's difficult to define what is or what is not a tax increase. i am against tax increases, but i am in favor of stabilizing our revenue stream. >> okay, but do you have frustration with grover norquist in such an absolutist definition of revenue neutral. because if over time, it could mean you're never raising more revenue, revenue could not go up. he's put you in a difficult position. does it frustrate you? >> no. look, my pledge wasn't to any
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one individual. the pledge that i made was to my constituents, the voters in utah who elected me and found it significant that i was willing to say tax increases are not the answer. the answer is, the government's got to control spending, we don't have a revenue problem so much as we have a spending problem in washington. >> thank you very much. we appreciate you taking the time to joins us tonight. sounds like everyone is moving bit by bit, everyone is moving closer and closer to a possible solution here. our third story out front, time for democrats to step up. as we've been talking, republicans have been debating whether it's time to abandon their pledge to never raise tax s. but that is only one side of the compromise. the democrats have to do something pretty big to get a deal done, too and susan rice finally answering her critics on capitol hill.
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>> this is what's important, you heard lindsey graham say, i'm willing to give up the pledge if democrats put entitlement reform on the table. as you know, we've been here before, bowles simpson, gang of six, super fail committee. the grand bargain. there have been negotiations and some really interesting. it showed the white house willing to make significant concessions on entitlement reform. there's a line of the documents, talks about alteration and the eligibility age for medicare. now, this is budget talk. but one of the things that has been negotiated is gradually increasing the age to 67. that would save around $250 billion over ten years, so that's a significant concession. >> significant, although, gradually is a problem. this is like you know, the french. they take ten years. you've got to do it right away. >> that's there and there's the political reality. you know the old washington
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joke. a billion here, a billion there, then you're talking money. >> what about social security? >> now, this is more complex. if you look at what bowles simpson talked about, and the gang of six, they talk about changing the benefit formula. change cpi. basically, what folks say is this could be a more accurate measure of inflation and if you put that in place, you could save $223 billion over ten years. if you raise the retirement age to 69 by 2075, it would affect toddlers today, no one else. >> oh, come on. >> that could save -- >> you know what, toddlers, i'm going to move it to 59 today. >> this has democrats willing to take on their own special interests. it's a sense of where the argument could go. and neither democrats nor republicans want to be the ones to raise it. they're going to have to do it more quickly. next, the question remains,
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can israel survive as a country if there is not a two-state solution? and that debate boil down to israeli -- they're "outfront" and is it a ballpoint pen or something more dangerous? an explosive look at a covert weapon allegedly found on a north korean spine. it's exclusive, it's next. welcome back to the second i wish this test drive was over, so we could head back to the dealership. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. test drive! but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get $0 down, $0 due at signing, $0 deposit, and $0 first month's payment on any new volkswagen. visit today. side by side so you get the same coverage, often for less. that's one smart board. what else does it do, reverse gravity? [ laughs ]
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welcome back to the second half of "outfront." we start with stories we care about. we focus on our reporting from the front lines. last week was black friday. today is cyber monday. these are what the retail industry names these things to get everyone excited about them. look, things are off to a solid start for the holiday. online sales were up 26% from cyber monday from a year ago. they're going to go up. research firm comp score expects americans to spend $1.5 billion online today. that would be an increase of 20% from last year.
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president of is expecting big rerns today. after breaking records on thanksgiving and black friday. they're selling best sellers right now, windows 8, apple products, flat panel tvs and tablets. i do want to note, though, just because you get really good sales the first few days after thanksgiving, that just may be cannibalizing sales from later on in the holiday season. it's still unclear. today, andrew cuomo said sandy caused $42 billion in damage in new york state. mayor bloomberg estimated public and private losses to be near $20 billion and some residents are still feeling pain. particularly in the form of electric bills. customers of the long island power authority are seeing bills that reflect their typical usage despite the fact they went week without power. shocking and outranged. a spokeswoman said the upcoming
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bills will reflect their previous actual meter reading and the charges will be automatically adjusted. do you check the meters every month or bill on average? i mean, just wondering how deep this question goes. we have a new satellite image of north korea's west sea satellite launch station. taken on november 23rd. according to analysis, a satellite imagery confirmed there are more trucks and people and numerous portable fuel tanks. military sources tell our barbara starr they have seen more activity in the area, but no evidence of an imminent launch yet. the u.s. ambassador to the u.n., susan rice is going to go back to capitol hill to discuss the attack on benghazi. the acting cia director will be with her for those meetings. one person they're going to meet is john mccain. he has been one of susan rice's outspoken critics. she's not qualified enough to be secretary of state. a job she's rumored to be up
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for. our latest cnn poll, we asked those surveyed for their opinion of susan rice, 35% had a favorable opinion. 26% an unfavorable. the vast majority of americans, despite all the coverage of the benghazi snafu are not sure. it's about 480 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? the white house releasing a report saying if congress doesn't prevent tax hikes, it could hurt consumer confidence and retailers and they could be forced to cut jobs. that's a case that could undermine any increases. and now, palestine. thursday, united nations will vote on whether to upgrade status to nonmember state. it's also a move opposed by the united states and israel. now, here's the headline from an op ed in the new york times.
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support palestinian statehood. that was not written by a palestinian, but by an israeli. a former deputy foreign minister of israel and architect of the oslo accord to be exact. the question remains, the israel survive as a jewish state if it does not agree to a two-state exclusion? specifically a solution that partitions jerusalem to both muz lems and jus? jeremy joins me along with morton klein, president of the zionist organization of america. i want to read more from that op-ed "the new york times" today. and continued to write because mr. abbas of the plo has committed to the principles of nonviolence, the bid is the only way of putting palestinians back on the agenda. the israeli foreign ministry is threatening to nullify the oslo accords. if the world recognizes a
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palestinian state. this is preposterous. what's your response? >> well, i wish that were true. we all would like a peaceful entity state next to israel. but in fact, for 19 years now, abbas promotes hatred and violence against jews in every aspect of their culture. they promote the jews are an aids virus and you must kill them. they honor terrorists regularly when they die so we don't want another hamas state next to israel. we want a true civilized state, so we need to make it clear they have to show they're stopping promoting hatred and violence, they'll truly accept a jewish state. they don't have emblems like this. i'm showing you this is an emblem the fatah put together a year or two ago, showing all of israel with a picture of arafat and a rifle. this is not an emblem of peace, so the palestinian authority is
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not serious about peace. they say in speech after speech, if the arabs want war against israel, we will join them. these are not the words of a peaceful entity, and israel has to wait until that changes before statehood can be conferred upon them. >> when i was in israel just few months ago and went into the palestinian territories in the west bank and i was with a bunch of children, little boys, and i asked them what they wanted to be, they said i want to fight israel. then they said, dentist or whatever else their dreams might have been. it was a pretty sobering moment. does morton have a point? >> well, there's a conflict here. there are two peoples that have been at war for over 100 years and we're going to make peace with our enemies, not with our friends. and the only solution to this fight, which is a fight between two people over one piece of land, is to figure out how to share the land or else we're going to keep on killing each other. not only in this generation, but in all the generations to come. so the two-state solution is the only way for israel to have long
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term and short term security. and also to preserve its jewish and democratic character over the coming generations. >> morton, don't you have to do a two-state solution and do it soon? the patience of the world seems to be in question, and the rights of these people that live in the palestinian territories. they just don't have them. >> yes, but we don't want another hamas type entity in the west bank that can hit israel's main airport. main population centers very easily. and israel's looking at how the arabs have treated the gays and christians in their territories. bethlehem used to be 90% christian. it's now 10% christian because the christians have left because their lives have been made miserable. miserable by arab muslims, they see gays have been leaving the palestinian authority in droves because they're treated so horribly, they're persecuted. so as bad as it is, it would be even worse with a hamas like
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entity in the palestinian authority territories. and by the way, abbas in the new york times op ed, one year ago he wrote, as soon as we get statehood, the first thing we do is go to the international criminal court and try to get jewish israeli leaders to be tried as war criminals. is that the words of a peaceful entity that wants to live in peace with a jewish state? hardly. it's a prescription for more war and if they do this, the united states may be forced to stop almost a billion dollars to give to the palestinian authority because it would be violating the oslo agreements. >> do you think anyone in israel has created war crimes just to put this question on the table? >> well, i don't think that's the question on the table. i think the question on the table is whether or not a two-state solution with a palestinian authority led by mahmoud abbas is a formula for ham hamas-stan as mort is saying.
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and i think that the surest way to ensure that you will get more radical, more extreme, more violent people leading the palestine movement is to oppose peaceful efforts to achieve a two-state solution. former prime minister, many other leaders of israel have been very clear. contrary to mort's remarks, the fatah party, are partners for israel for peace and they have spoken out long and often about the need for a two-state solution for the palestinian perspective and even recently on israeli tv went on to talk about ways of solving the most difficult issue, which is the right of return. >> all right. thank you very much. we appreciate you taking the time. everyone, please let us know online what you think about that about the two-state solution, but also, i'm also personally curious about the war crimes questions. they sound like gadgets used by james bond. on the surface, looks like a pen and a flashlight. but the covert weapons allegedly belonged to a north korean spy who was planning to use them to kill a political activist from south korea. these are 007 type instruments and have never been seen by the you believe until now.
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our paula hancocks has this exclusive report. >> an assassination attempt, foiled. a north korean spy arrested on the streets of seoul. this was a year ago and this is the first time south korean intelligence officials are showcasing the weapons. exclusively to cnn. so, how does this work? >> translator: this poison needle was made to look like a parker ball point pen. there is a tube inside here. in order to activate it, we have to twist it towards the right three to four times and then press the top part like this. >> if you're shot by this pen, what happens to you? >> translator: it would cause muscle paralysis very quickly, which would lead to suffocation and then death. >> the second pen shoots a poison filled bullet. the powdered poison is then released.
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these pens look like they belong in a james bond movie. is it new technology? >> translator: these pen weapons are not new, but this flashlight is new. never seen this weapon before. if you look at the front, there are three holes. there was a bullet in each hole and here the trigger. >> forensics fired one bullet to test the gun. it was accurate and deadly. when police arrested the would be assassin, he was carrying all three weapons. none had been fired. this man was his target. defector and anti pyongyang activist, renowned in south korea for sending anti regime propaganda leaflets across the border in balloons. he was due to meet the would be assassin who had claimed he wanted to fund his activism. south korean intelligence agents stopped him at the last minute. >> i didn't believe they would try and kill me on the crowded
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streets of seoul. i thought the national intelligence service was overreacting. >> we showed him the weapons intended to kill him. he hadn't seen them in such detail and seemed shocked. >> translator: you would note the gun, but these weapons sore innocuous, you could have easily killed someone. i would have been killed instantly. >> reporter: he knows he's at the top of north korea's hit list, and has around the clock police protection. having seen the weapons intended to kill him, he says he knows there will be more assassination attempts, but he will not stop his activism. "outfront" next, at least four top republicans say they're going to break their promise to never vote for higher taxes if it means avoiding the fiscal cliff. will they buck the pledge if it costs them their jobs? carville and frum outfront. and the need for unions.
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we're back with tonight's outer circle and tonight, we go to syria where activists say ten children were playing in a damascus area playground when they were killed by shelling. images are coming in of the attack. we want to warn you they are disturbing and graphic. the opposition believes the government used warplanes to carry out what is known as a cluster bomb attack. payton walsh is in beirut, i asked him why the children may have been targeted. >> these disturbing images show what happens when a powerful mun igs hits refugees who don't have a good solid building to shelter in. rebels often suggest when they score a major military success against the regime, this happened in a nearby air base to where the bomb hit vis tor's anger among the local population. they have denied even possessing ammunitions, saying they wouldn't have used them in something like this, but many syrians will be asking themselves what else does the outside world have to see
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happening in syria to be spurred into action? >> thanks to nic. and now our fifth story outfront. bucking the pledge. at least four top republicans say they're willing to break their pledge to never vote for higher taxes, but could it cost them their jobs? lindsey graham, saxby chambliss, bob corker and peter king, and mike lee, they've all said they're willing to compromise and consider revenue increases to avoid the fiscal cliff. their shift in position has grover norquist vowing to help unseat any republican who breaks his taxpayer protection pledge. the question tonight is whether this is a larger trend or whether republicans are just testing the waters and two men who know about testing the waters, politicking and actually meaning what you say join me now. david frum and james carville, you have been on every side of this. let me start with you though david. republicans talking about raising revenue by closing
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loopholes. as opposes to raising tax rates. you can get a heck of a lot of revenue that way. is this smart for them r or not? >> republicans are going to be yielding ground, but they have to avoid seemingly yielding ground underressure. president has a strong hand. they have to keep their party together. frankly, i think loopholes are the wrong place to -- so-called loop homes, meaning deductions for home mortgage, are the wrong place to look for new revenue. the place is look is with different kinds of tax sources. not by making it more difficult for people to work save and invest. >> wow, adding even more taxes. did you switch parties? i'm just teasing you. >> if your goal is to keep the top rate low, i think a top rate of 35 is already quite high. if your goal is to keep a top rate low. you have to look at other kinds of sources other than the income tax. >> james, i guess the question
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is here would the democrats even accept a deal that was additional sources or closing loopholes as opposed to this rate has to go up. is this a do or die line for democrats? >> it was 39.6 under clinton, and as i recall we did pretty well. at any rate, there's got to be some kind of give on revenue that's obvious. i think the democrats have a stronger hand as a result of the election. and in fact, during the election, if it wasn't clear by much. the one issue was really big, and that was raising taxes on wealthy people. people knew that's exactly what president obama knew. they knew mitt romney didn't want to do it, and they voted for president obama. >> david, let me ask you about grover norquist. obviously, the man who authored the pledge that so many reasons have signed. mike lee from utah was the
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latest on the show to say, back off the pledge. grover spoke to soledad this morning on cnn, if you break my pledge, you're going to have to deal with voters. here was his comment. >> if youen watt to go to your voters and say, i promised you this, and i'm breaking my promise. you can have that conversation with them, but you're not having that argument with me. you made a commitment to your voters. >> he says he's going to try to unseat people who go against the pledge. is this a real risk that saxby chambliss or lindsey graham could end up losing their jobs over 24? >> it is a real risk. understand what direction these people are leading the party in. they conceive the republican party is fundamentally a congressional force, oppositional force. the whole point is to say, someone else is acting, and here you are laying down in advance how you will react.
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there's no plan here you're going to be acting, you're going to be leading. if the republican party is ever going to be a presidential party again, and has lost a majority of the vote, it's going to have to think in an entirely different way about how you make commitments to entirely different groups of voters. >> and what about on cuts, james, this is an interesting comment. dick durbin has been on this show, he's such a rational person that seems so open to compromise. he was open to closing loopholes but not raising rates, he's looked for cuts. he's a rational man in many ways. he said yesterday the democrats should not be talking about cutting social security. here he is. >> social security does not add one penny to our debt. not a penny. it's a separate funded operation. medicare's another story. only 12 years of solvency lie ahead if question do nothing. those who say, don't touch it, don't change it are ignoring the obvious. >> democrats have the courage to make serious cuts to medicare.
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>> first of all. i think it's a serious cut. a lot of people that tell you that would defer it. >> i'm not implying it's not a serious cut, i'm sorry, i just meant you would have to do it over a smaller period of time. >> right, i understand, but i want to go back to senator durbin's point, if you want to do something about social security, do something about social security. but leave social security and the debt aside for the moment. it doesn't drive that. i think senator durbin is right on that. they're going to have to negotiate something on medicare, there's no doubt about that. remember the person doesn't get the medicare payment, the hospital or the doctor, the pharmaceutical or whoever it is gets that. that's going to affect a lot of different things. it's going to be really sort of tough going here. but it's obvious that there's going to be some kind of entitlement cuts that come out of this. i don't know how wise that is,
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but it's going to happen. >> thanks to both of you. we appreciate it. it will be tough for everyone. still outfront a devastating fire kills more than 100 people. and there is a solution. on why and how this could never happen again. if you are one of the millions of men who have used androgel 1%, there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%. both are used to treat men with low testosterone. androgel 1.62% is from the makers of the number one prescribed testosterone replacement therapy. it raises your testosterone levels, and...
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on saturday a fire killed more than 100 people. after flames spread rapidly trapping those on higher floors. it was a nine story building. there are no exterior fire escapes and a lot of people died from jumping. the factory has made products for companies like ikea and walmart. bangladesh gets 80% of export revenue from textiles. this business is bangladesh, and
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bang la herb is home to about 4,000 garment factories. and a lot of them are like this one, they lack proper safety measures. when i read this, it reminded me about anotr fire, the one in the triangle shirt ways factory in new york city in 1911. it was the deadliest industrial accident in the history of new york city. 146 garment workers died in that fire, and most of them were women, just like in that fire in bangladesh. just like in bangladesh the death toll would have been much lower, had there been appropriate emergency exits. in that case, as you remember, a lot of doors had been locked. and now there are reports that could have been the case with locked or stuck doors in bangladesh now in 2012. the new york city fire eventually helped to spur the growth of the international ladies garment workers union, which fought for better working conditions for sweat shop workers. we have every hope that the very sad events of this weekend will do the same for bangladesh,
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because when it comes to sweatshops like the ones in bang bangladesh, it's not as simple as saying, don't buy foreign-made clothes, only buy items made in the usa. these women need the jobs and work. bangladesh is one of the poorest companies in the world. the garment industry is huge for the country. it's not as easy as saying pay a little more, because in the absence of international monitoring that is not easy. you can't really do is it? what do you do? unions. yes, unions. despite what you might think about them, they could make a big difference for these women and save lives. just something to think about. [ male announcer ] introducing the new dell xps 12.
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