right. in the crossfire tonight, two of the most successful and most feared political minds in the business. and we're going to talk clinton and christie, the two presidential front-runners, who are both having a pretty bad week. let's start with hillary clinton and national security. there's a new senate report on benghazi which left four americans, including the united states ambassador, dead. this report is a lot bigger than just hillary clinton. it not only concludes the attack was preventable, it says both the u.s. state department and the intelligence community made major mistakes. while clinton isn't mentioned by name in the report, she clearly is the person most at risk and who has the most to lose, which undoubtedly is why she continues to behave as if she was never the secretary of state, doesn't know what you're talking about and can't imagine why we keep discussing it. >> or maybe it's that republicans are absolutely obsessed with using benghazi to
try to take down a candidacy that hasn't even launched yet. >> although that was a bipartisan report. >> it was a bipartisan report that dianne feinstein, the senate chairman of the intelligence committee, who put out a statement today to push back on republicans who were trying to say that this established culpability for secretary clinton. when the senate intelligence chairwoman has to put out a statement to push back on some rogue republicans, you know it's a problem. >> yesterday she said it was culpable and in between the calls from the white house -- >> if we had time to submit this, i would. paul begala and tom delay. tom, i want to go to you for the first question. back to this pathology that republicans are trapped in. it's almost a sickness of trying to -- or of obsessing over -- put aside president obama because they're absolutely obsessed with him. obsessing over hillary clinton and trying to use the benghazi
attack, which is a tragedy, four lives were lost, we need to get to the bottom of it, but trying to use that to bring down her candidacy. she anti-evhasn't even announce president yet. so they're talking about benghazi but not about raising the minimum wage, closing the income gap, strengthening the middle class. no agenda. >> the obama -- >> that's actually america's agenda. >> well, it's great to see you, too. you're criticizing the republicans for not talking about the obama agenda. it's pretty amazing to me that you would even question me about the republicans trying to get to the truth of what's going on in benghazi. it's only been what, now, two years, and we can't get to the bottom of what's going on in benghazi. >> there have been reports, same conclusions. >> the fbi shows is up 30 days
later. they can't even find the guy who's sitting in a downtown coffee shop in benghazi? we know what's going on here. but you're talking to me about trying to get to the truth of what's going on when, you know, the left, quite frankly, main strategy is criminal politics. they want to bury christie, bankrupt him, destroy his political career. you know, put him in prison. >> let me ask you this, paul, from this standpoint, i know democrats from the last few weeks have loved the idea of the george washington bridge and the whole process of christie's problem, but in fact in benghazi, apparently 15 people who have tried to cooperate with us have been killed during this process of the last few weeks. apparently our rules so so
totally screwed up that the chairman of the joint chiefs yesterday said they hadn't gone after certain people because they weren't sure under the way the congress wrote the law that they could actually prove these guys belonged to al qaeda and therefore they're semisafe even if they're clearly terrorists. clearly on the sunday after benghazi -- >> well, let me just interrupt you if i could, very quickly. don't forget for the last year and a half, those americans that trp on the ground in benghazi have been intimidated by this administration through lie detector test, having to sign other confidentiality agreements and all that. >> o the question i have, when you look at chris christie taking a two-hour press conference over something relatively small compared to benghazi, when do we get the hillary clinton clear the air, tell the truth about what actually happened, both in the cover-up phase during the campaign and in the actual on the ground events?
i mean, doesn't she owe the nation some kind of clear, decisive report? >> well, i'm sure you've paid your cable bill, because it was on cnn. she testified under oath something governor christie we hope will do about whether or not he was involved, and it's important to note, there's no smoking gun or no evidence that he knew about this, but he is a bully. i never thought he was going to be a bipartisan nominee anyway. we talked about that off camera. she testified about this under oath with fire-breathing republicans coming after her. before tom got off on a paranoid rant, you raised some important policy changes that have to be made. you're right. secretary clinton, she put together an independent investigation that came back with dozens of reforms, important ones. she adopted them all. president obama same thing. he's trying to make these changes. when our embassies in dar es salaam and nairobi were attacked
in 1998 president clinton came and asked for support and you provided it. it wasn't everything we want, but we made our embassy safer. since then your successors have cut and cut and cut embassy security 13 times under president bush, 60 americans were killed. the same thing that happened in benghazi, i never saw the republicans give a rip snort about. >> there was the ability to provide security. >> it is not a rosetta stone scandal that you all think it is. it's not. >> i want to talk about working across party lines to do what's best for the country. tom, you were an effective leader of congress. >> thank you. >> especially for republicans. >> appreciate that. >> you worked with newt as speaker and speaker hastert also. you worked across party lines to also get things done. but we're seeing some -- a wave of senior republicans retiring
because they're tired of the way their caucus is being run. bud mckeon, who you worked with, just announced his retirement today. he said i think every member of our conference should look at themselves and evaluate what they were sent here to do. if they can't support the leadership, then let them run for leadership. but until you do that, it's important to follow. no one's following john boehner, eric mccarthy or ear rick cantor. you're having a civil war within your party which has ground the house to a halt. we can't get anything done. >> well, i think it hasn't ground the house to a halt. when you have a senate controlled by the democrats and president obama who won't even negotiate with the republicans, yeah, we're having a big -- and during this primary season, a
down and bloody fight within our party. frankly, i don't want it. i don't want to go through it. but i think also i think it's very cleansing. and this happened in 1980. newt will tell you. it brought me to politics. the bush and reagan fights, the conservative rose up from the grass roots. we took over the party. the primaries were strong and vibrant and nasty, but we emerged an incredibly stronger party. and that's going to happen right now in the next year. >> i was working for president clinton in the white house. you two led an impeachment which i'm still upset about. even while you were doing that, you worked with him to double fund for the national institutes of health and national cancer institute, there are people alive today because of the work you did with president clinton
even as you were impeaching him. >> tom and i were part of an effort that said on within hand we'll fight over principles and find a way to get something done. you and the president fit that same platter. so i watched yesterday's coverage of president obama who is now reaching out to democrats. i just want to suggest to you for a second and then ask your advice to the president. i think having a mar teen we the democrats is a start, but if he wants to become bipartisan it has to at least have a beer with the republican. what advice would you -- >> or is it a merlot. >> what advice would you give the president about how do you great a bipartisan moment? >> it does take two to tango. you have to come back, never weary doing good. you shall reap, right? i believe in that. but if you look at what he's doing that republicans now think is socialism, his health care plan with an individual mandate
which he adopted from you, newt, a cap and trade plan that he adopted from john mccain. an immigration plan he adopted from george bush. it would be nice for republicans to support their own ideas. work with the president on -- >> it would be nice for him to call up john boehner and tell him that. >> i think he has, and i think it's not a surprise. >> i don't think so. >> it's time to take a break. we'll take a bridge, the george washington bridge, to the republican side of 2016. next, the scariest thing facing governor chris christie.
two-hour news conference putting this issue to rest. today we also learned that the governor's office is lawyering up. the taxpayers of new jersey, not chris christie himself, will be paying those legal bills. so after infuriating voters by forcing them to sit in traffic, he's now sticking them with the bill. so let's dive into this issue. tom delay, not belay, sorry about that, you know personally how these things can spin out of control. these investigations can be very difficult. this is a guy who is trying to put together a presidential campaign. he's trying to run the republican governors association. and hopefully he's still trying to govern in new jersey but he's got this investigation hanging over him. how in the world is he going to get out of this? this is going to be a drip, drip for the next two, three years. it's going to be hanging over him. >> well, i could tell you if hillary can stand whitewater, travelgate, benghazi, then chris
christie can get through a traffic jam on the george washington bridge. >> you think it will stop at a traffic jam? >> yeah. i don't know what's there, but what i've seen in the last few days since all this broke and he had his two-hour press conference is his political enemies are going for the throat. now, i don't know -- i've never met chris christie, but my impression of him is he's one tough ombre. >> that's you wearing your new jersey hat? >> yeah, what the democrats don't understand is this could potentially make him even stronger, a stronger figure on the national stage as well as new jersey. >> let's say he gets through the investigation. >> they better run. >> do you think he gets through the republican party. he's been on both sides of the abortion issue. he's got very similar problems. >> but if you guys aren't careful about the next few weeks and he comes out of this clean, he's going to be much, much
stronger. >> let me ask you because you served a president who as a candidate, then as an incumbent probably set the all-time record for real scandals, phony scandals, would-be scandals, you name it. what would your advice to chris christie be? >> honestly, first, he made an enormous mistake in trashing this deputy chief of staff who he fired. he called her an idiot, said she lied to him. just as a practical matter, as a political scandal guy, she can control his fate. she's going to have to testify about this. and now, frankly, he's very angry at her. the bullying tactics that he's using in his own defense i think also are part of his political problem. he really does need to come clean. the press conference was fine. he really needs to put out documents. as you know, we did that to a fairly -- millions of documents. >> in a very timely manner. >> including the christmas card
list which the house actually had when we were running an investigation of the christmas card list. we cooperated with it well. >> you were angry you weren't on the list. >> to me, chris christie allege -- there's no real evidence that he did that. people are concerned about whether he used political power to hurt citizens. that was never a charge against president clinton or president bush or tom or anyone. this is really rare. republicans hate the government, they're worried about the governments a power. i never thought he'd fly in a tea party dominant. that's not my party. i'm often wrong about that. but this now really seals his fate. >> one other question. do you encourage or discouraged a two hour and two-minute press conference? >> that's fine with me. he didn't get to anything is the problem. the press loves it. because he gave the press what they wanted, which is lots of time and lots of questions.
he didn't give folks what they wanted, which is a real answer to the why me, why did you hurt me, why did you target -- there's no evidence he did. i have to stop saying that. why did your administration target us. he never got to that. maybe because he doesn't know. but then you put out all the documents. this guy was a federal prosecutor and a good one. he put 130 corrupt politicians of both parties in jail when he was u.s. attorney. and i'm supposed to believe that when the biggest bridge in his state in our country was tied up for four day, he didn't look into it? >> yeah. >> implausible. >> what i don't get is this investigation could very well be the end of him. but it could very well not show anything. we don't know that yet. however, question for both of you. i don't understand what everybody is so impressed with with this guy. i mean, the state is 41st in job creation. property taxes are out of control. wages are going down. he's cut taxes for those at the
top while raising costs for everybody else. this does remind me of another candidate i just don't understand what the magic is. >> he's done some good things. he took the obamacare medicaid money. he took a pass on anti-gay stuff. he was against it for a while but then he stood down. he's been squishy on trying to outlaw abortion rights. so from my point of view -- >> hey, look at that picture. look at that picture. he's not well coiffed. he's a refreshing change for many people who are sick of the image of politicians. they want straight talk. they want truth. they want you to be honest with them. they want you to tell them the truth, even if it hurts. and that's why he's so popular. >> i think he also -- >> not only across the state but across the nation. >> i think people want to know also you're on their side. all i'm saying is that the record -- the economic record
shows that that's not the case. >> new jersey is in much better shape today than it was when he took over. >> new jersey lags behind the national economic recovery. i sit next to this guy every night and listen to how bad that recovery is. >> it was at zero when he became governor. it was in the toilet. >> tom, what about when that picture is replaced with him hugging barack obama. no kidding. democrats in connecticut dumped joe lieberman because he hugged george w. bush. i've seen this movie. he's never going to be the republican nominee. >> let me ask you a more immediate question. >> yes, sir. >> you just raised his polling. >> you've been a great consultant. you understand this business as well as anybody in the country. kay hagan decided that she wouldn't go to north carolina. mary landrieu flew air force one down there and hid.
>> it's a cool plane. >> it's a very cool plane. but kay hagan decided not to take the plane trip. candidate after candidate in tough races have to decide am i next to obama or do i not remember who he is. and they're all going to have to make these kind of decisions. how would you advise red state democrats in those kind of settings? did she make a mistake not going down to north carolina with the president? >> you have to be your own person. at the same time, you can run but you can't hide. you watch the state of the union. it is going to be an agenda that democrats can stand on. it's going to be the things stephanie was talking about earlier. talking about trying to raise the minimum wage so a decent day's work has a decent day's pay. >> i hate you cut you off at the beginning of the democratic platform, but i'm going to ask everybody to stay here. next, the final question for both of our guests. we also want you to weigh in on today's fire-back question.
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once gave on the house floor. let's take a quick look. >> now, politics demands compromi compromise. and mr. speaker, and even the most partisan among us have to understand that. but we must never forget that compromise and by bipartisanman are means and not ends and are employed properly in the service of higher principles. >> it really was a great speech. >> well, thank you. that was my farewell speech. >> i know. but i watched the speech today. it was a very impassioned speech. i just wish that republicans today were following your advice. should we go to the house floor and play this for everybody and see if they'll pay attention. >> frankly, i'd like to be a politician and answer the question with my answer. i want to talk about the upcoming election. i think it's set in stone that obamacare and the president has
set it and if the republicans don't mess it up, it's going to happen. i really loved obama coming with the new agenda for the democrats to run on is income inequality. if you want to keep your poverty, you can keep your poverty. so i just -- i can't wait for the upcoming election. i think it's going to be wonderful, and i think it's going to be everything for the republicans way. >> very quickly. two questions. will hillary run? >> i'll tell you in two years. >> if she does run -- >> i hope so. if god answers prayers, because i'm wearing my knees out. run, hillary, run. >> if she does run, will it matter if anybody else runs? >> it will. my party does not give things away. i hope she runs, i'll support her if she does, but it will be a tough fight. >> and it's to her benefit for it to be a tough fight. >> it is actually. i think we did al gore a disservice in largely clearing the field.
if he'd have had seven or eight, he'd have been a better candidate. >> thanks to paul begala and tom delay. go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fire-back question. right now 32 pskt you say clinton and 68% of you say christie. i'm stephanie cutter. >> i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. next, three shootings in three days. a movie theater, a middle school and a grocery store. places we go every day. what is happening in america? plus, how did an asiana passenger get run over by emergency responders? the nation's top transportation investigator joins us. and is "how i met your mother" racist? the hit sitcom