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tv   Erin Burnett Out Front  CNN  January 27, 2014 8:00pm-9:01pm PST

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that does it for us. erin burnett "outfront" starts erin burnett "outfront" starts now. -- captions by vitac -- next, new details about the gunman who terrorized a maryland mall this weekend. what he wrote in his journal and what a friend says he planned to do today. plus, hillary clinton reveals her biggest regret as secretary of state and starts to distance herself from president obama. and why are some people calling the grammys racist? let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone. thanks so much for joining us. i'm don lemon in for erin burnett. tonight, what made a maryland teenager open fire at a mall this weekend terrorizing employees and customers? we're learning more tonight about 19-year-old darion aguilar who shot and killed two
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employees at a skateboard shop before turning the gun on himself. his mother calls him a gentle, sweet kid but police say aguilar's journal expressed general unhappiness with his life. the gun shop where aguilar purchased the gun tells cnn that the 19-year-old visited the shop twice in december. on his first visit aguilar purchased a shotgun for $430 in cash, plus two boxes of ammunition and a couple weeks later aguilar returned for another box of shotgun shells. but the big question still remains. why did he open fire in the first place? joe johns is in columbia, maryland, with the very latest. >> reporter: saying he wanted something for home defense, darion aguilar legally purchased a mossberg .520-gauge shotgun and 48 shotgun shells. the owner of the united gun shop tells cnn there were no red flags. both times aguilar visited the shop he was accompanied by a friend. today at the scene of the shoot a makeshift memorial not far from the place where 21-year-old brianna benlolo and 25-year-old tyler johnson were shot to death by aguilar.
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columbia mall reopened this afternoon for the first time since the shooting, though the store where the shooting occurred was boarded up until further notice. customers said it was a sign of the times. >> and it can happen anywhere. >> reporter: police are still searching for a motive. they say aguilar's journal told them something about his state of mind but not about his plans. >> we retrieved a number of items of evidence, and included in that was a journal. in the journal there are writings that it's clear that he's unhappy with his -- his life and where he is right now. >> reporter: okay. but -- but no clear indication as to a plan or to a motive or anything like that? >> no, and, again, i've not seen the journal. investigators are still working through that, but nothing to point us to a motive. >> reporter: after the shooting the gunman's mother reported her son did not show up at work at a local dunkin' donuts store. police say she used a phone app
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to trace her son's phone from her home in maryland to the mall in nearby, columbia. but at that point, reports say the damage had been done. in a tearful interview with reporters his mother struggled to come to grips with it. >> i don't know what happened, i really don't. it's so unusual. you can talk to any of his friends and find out what a gentle person he was. i just -- i don't know. he's never, never had a gun before, never been interested in guns. >> reporter: police say the shooter was supposed to start classes at a community college today. police also say video cameras recorded at least part of the shooting, though it's not clear whether that's going to help them in determining a motive. don? >> joe johns, appreciate that, joe. joining me now hln law enforcement analyst mike brooks along with william pollack, an associate kline calling professor of psychology at
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harvard medical school. thank you guys for joining us. mike, i want to devote my first question to you. >> sure. >> in this case, like in new town, the shooter was living with his mother, but aguilar's mother said she saw no signs of any of this. how can someone in such close proximity not see anything unusual? >> well, i have a hard time believing it also, but many times, don, people who are closest to let's say the shooter, they might not recognize any signs, and, you know, what was the family dynamic going on at the house with her and her son. and, you know, he said he bought the gun for home defense. had he discussed that with her? did she not find it unusual that he had so much ammunition because apparently during the search warrant they went to the house and found a large amount of ammunition? did she not find that unusual, and i would like to know if he was exhibiting any signs, ever had any history of any mental illness, because apparently he had no prior criminal background. >> dr. pollack to you. the shooter's mother said he was gentle and a number of people who knew him have spoken out and
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said similar things about him. no one seems to have seen any real signs that he would do this. is it possibly that there's some simple signs that no one noticed? >> of course there's a possibility. we can't be sure, but often looking back, a few days looking back, people start to say, well, he became more withdrawn or he was quiet but he became more quiet or he seemed more sad. we heard in your report that he went with a friend to buy the gun. what was the friend thinking? did the friend not report it since this was a young man who theoretically never bought any guns or ammunition. so there's probably little signs. but we don't want to point blame. we want to understand what went on in this young man's head to make him feel that life wasn't worth living. this was clearly a murder-suicide. this was clearly a young man who felt hopeless and wanted to die. >> mm-hmm. mike, you know, we have seen too many shootings recently in very recent weeks in public places, the mall, movie theater, grocery store.
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do we need a new level of public security, more law enforcement? >> well, don, cops can't be every place, you know, all the time, and, you know, we have to take it upon ourselves, citizens do, to be aware of your situation. i call it situational awareness. no matter if you're at a movie theater, at a mall, you know, when you're on vacation. when you go into some place just kind of look around and go, well, what if? what if something started happening here? what would i do? would i run? would i fight this person if he was close to me? you know, it's one of these things you've just got to -- if you see something, you have to say something, and don't be afraid to do that. >> mm-hmm. >> don't be afraid of someone calling you out. >> right. >> go ahead, doctor. you want to say something? >> i absolutely agree with that, but preemptorily, beforehand, if we notice a friend of ours doesn't seem the same, all of a sudden they're buying ammunition, we shouldn't be afraid to go to someone in a
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position of authority and say i'm worried about this young man. maybe he's not going to shoot anybody except himself which is bad enough, but we have a society where there's so much disconnection and people are afraid to come forward because they are afraid they are snitching or they are looking to someone else's business. in fact, we're a disconnected society. if people saw anything and said anything beforehand, maybe not here but in these other situations, the situation would never have happened. >> yeah. >> so we have to do something that's caring and connected before it happens, not just during and while it happens. >> i'm glad you said caring and connected. many times when people are having problems or their personalities change in some way people back away from them because they don't want to be involved or they are not acting like themselves. i don't want to be a part of that when the exact opposite should probably happen. glad you said that. dr. pollack, i want to follow up on this. you talked about where he chose to do it. doesn't sound like he knew his victims but certainly chose a public place to commit the act. what motivates someone to kill
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people they don't know in such a public location? >> we're into assumptions. assuming he didn't know him, the public location is telling people look at pain i'm in. look at how i've been suffering. look at what's been done to me and look at how hopeless i am and no one cares. well, now, people are going to care. unfortunately, in a very painful way and in a very negative way in a way that maybe beforehand they could have been more caring and we would have avoided this terrible tragedy. thank you very much. appreciate both of you. make sure to tune in this wednesday, this coming wednesday, "outfront" begins a special series on mental health called kids in crisis, fragile minds, and we'll take a closer look at how difficult it is for children and families to get the help and treatment they need for mental health problems. still to come tonight on cnn, a major american university under fire tonight over how it handled an alleged rape involving a football player. plus, more than 600 people sick on a cruise ship. we'll talk to one of the
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the university of missouri under fire after an espn report suggested it may have not investigated a rape. university officials say there was no formal complaint and were unaware of the incident. but information has surfaced. george howell is in columbia with the story. >> reporter: she came to the
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university of missouri to fulfill a childhood dream, to become a competitive swimmer. sasha cory made the swim team on scholarship in 2009 but the following year something happened that changed the course of her promising college career, something her parents didn't learn about until after she died. >> people were telling us that she had been raped and she wrote it in her journal. >> reporter: in light of a 16-month investigation by espn's yours truly outside -- "outside the lines" program, new questions are being raised about what the university knew about the alleged assault and when officials knew it. according to the report, in february of 2010 after a night out drinking with friends, courey admitted to going home with a former university football player off campus and having consensual sex but months later she said that after the former football player left another football player entered the room, locked the door and raped her. courey's parents say her daughter talked about the alleged assault with a campus nurse and a campus doctor 11 months after the alleged attack
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in 2012, the local paper reported that, quote, that she also wrote in her diary months later that she was sexually assaulted at the end of her freshman year. the school never launched an investigation. officials say they weren't notified by the nurse or doctor cue to the policy of not reporting sexual assaults without a victim's consent. courey's parents say she already suffered from a long history depression and in the months to follow she became more and more depressed. in 2011 sasha courey took her own life. >> we lost our daughter and we cannot bring her back, but we can make a difference for others. >> reporter: school officials say they later discovered and turned over to courey's parents a transcript of her conversation with a rape crisis counsellor. they also sent her parents a letter asking if they wanted the matter investigated, but officials say her parents never responded. >> we did not feel supported in
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this letter. this letter was a check the boxes letter, and really, to be honest it did not deserve a response. >> reporter: the question, did the university have an obligation to act even without the parents' response? according to title ix, a law that guarantees men and women are equally protected on campus, universities are legally required to investigate allegations of rape, even if the alleged victim is no longer alive. >> i don't sense that there's any clear evidence of a cover-up at this point. i certainly think the university should have been a little more proactive at trying to bring in information and find out more. >> reporter: the head of the university of missouri system now acknowledges the case needs to be investigated. president tim wolfe declined our request to speak on camera but put out a statement late sunday saying he, quote, asking the board of curators to hire outside independent counsel to
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conduct an investigation of mu's handling of matters related to miss courey. this is already raising privacy concerns for courey saying in a statement, quote, victims of sexual assault need to know that they can seek medical care without the concern that reports will be made to police or campus officials without their consent. the university is conducting its own independent investigation and the case has been turned over to columbia police. officials say they are moving forward only now because of that espn report mentioning specific names of people who may have relevant information about the alleged assault. george howell, cnn, columbia, missouri. >> thanks very much for that. now i want to bring in mel robins, a former legal aide and criminal defense attorney. this is a complicated case. is the university of missouri at fault? >> no, you know, don, it's a complicated case but i think
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it's important for people to understand something very simple which is if in fact there was a crime committed, it happened -- the university didn't find out until two years after the fact, don, and they only found out based on everything that's in the public record right now based on a newspaper article, and so unlike the case, for example, with penn state where there was a paper trail and there were many people inside the university that knew about the allegations against sandusky, there simply isn't that evidence here in this case, at least not right now. >> you're talking about title ix, because under title ix if the university were aware that there were allegations of a sexual assault, they were obligated to investigation. and you're saying they were not aware at that time. >> not at all. so this happened her freshman year, don. that's when the allegations are -- are made, and it was two years later that a newspaper
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article about the sexual assault came to light and was e-mailed to the school. if they don't know about it, they can't be liable for failing to investigate. yes, once they hear about it, they should be investigating, but this is also a days, don, and i think it's important for women in particular to hear this. if you're talking about a rape to a rape crisis counsellor, to a pastor or to a medical professional, they are not obligated and cannot in fact report the incident under the federal cleary act. >> unless you give them permission, right. >> correct. >> can we talk about the parents. >> don -- >> can we talk about the parents. they say they aren't looking to sue the university. they just want the case investigated. so how difficult is it going to be in this case to prove a case like this? >> well, you can't prove the rape. first of all, you have the only witness to the rape, she's deceased. she took her own life, don. it's a tragic story.
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you also have her journal which i'm not sure they could even admit into evidence. the only wrinkle into this is she has a very good friend that was a member of the football team, and in the interview that i saw that espn did, he claims that he confronted the three men that were supposedly at the apartment that night, and in the interview says that he saw some cell phone footage of the attack. now why he didn't go to the police with this, i don't know. >> yeah. >> there's one other thing, don, that i think you'll find interesting. the year that the rape allegedly took place was 2010, and some of you may remember that there was a star player on university of missouri's team named derrick washington who was charged with raping somebody in 2010, and he was convicted and sentenced in 2011. and so university of missouri is also, as far as i'm concerned, has an issue where they should be investigating this because the number of forcible sexual
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incidents was reported as two in 2009. it jumped to 11, don, in 2010. >> interesting. mel robins, thank you. appreciate your expertise on this. tonight a nasty illness has struck again aboard a cruise ship. more than 600 passengers and crew on a royal carribean's "explorer of the seas" are stuck in their beds dealing with vomiting and diarrhea. the centers for disease control now on board that ship, trying to identify the source of the outbreak. cruise officials are now cutting the trip short. they are expected back in new jersey on wednesday. one of the passengers, the mayor of easton, pennsylvania, sal panto jr. joins me now by phone. mayor, most of the people who are sick.
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are they quarantined in their rooms? have you talked to anyone who has been infected, mayor? >> yes, i've talked to people, and they were quarantined for at least 24 hours. if they went down to the infirmary. i think the bigger problem is those people who felt ill and went back to their state room and never really reported it. i do know one person who was feeling ill so she went into her state room but didn't report it so the 600, may be another 600 for all i know. >> usually on a cruise ship everybody is out and about, enjoying, food is free. out drinking and by the pool getting some sun. take us on board the cruise ship and tell us what that experience is like now. >> well, three days ago i would say it was more like a ghost ship. obviously more people were confined to their state rooms and more people were more cautious about getting into public areas. i would say today was back to norm a. the pool deck was crowded. people were dancing to the band, getting some sun. the talk about the illness going around was rampant and some people were very, very upset and some people were taking it in stride. >> the ceo of royal caribbean
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cruises defended his company there saying, you know, his practices saying they screened passengers. did you see anything like this, anything like screening passengers before you got on board? >> no. unfortunately, i really -- i would have to tell you the truth that we saw people who were deathly sick, sneezing and hacking and coughing and blowing their nose and when you got up to the registration desk and give you that health form and say were you sick in the last 24 hours, vomited in the last 48 hours, i'm sure they put no. maybe the cruise line could recommend that maybe, you know, if you are sick and you don't go, you get your refund. people have already taken off from work and paid their cruise, don't want to lose their money so they came on board. >> our thanks to mayor sal panto. some other headlines we're following for you tonight. a new threat in sochi. militants writing on an islamist website today saying, quote, russia has been warned. it's symbolic because also today a runner carried the torch through the capital of dagestan, an area plagued by terrorism with the bombings a few hours away in volgograd.
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threats are much too real for some athletes. olympic cross-country skier tells cnn his family is staying in the u.s. because it would be too stressful for him to worry about their safety while he competes. a multi-agency search in texas has been called off for a woman who vanished ten days ago. the story of leanne hecht bearden was brought to our attention. traveled for her husband without any major incident but a month after their return to the u.s. she went out for a walk near san antonio and never returned. investigators do not expect foul play and have no solid leads so far. they are ending the search for now. before the disappearance the couple planned on returning to denver to look for jobs. still to come, hillary clinton talks about what is next the for her and talks about her biggest regret. also justin bieber is hanging out in panama.
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tonight, hillary clinton addressing potentially her biggest weakness head on. >> you know, my -- my biggest regret is what happened in benghazi. it was a terrible tragedy, losing four americans. >> and with president obama's poll numbers down in his second term, clinton tried to distance herself from her former boss moments earlier. >> you know, i had disagreements with president bush, but, yeah, i also had some disagreements with president obama.
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>> so what is the biggest liability for a clinton 2016 campaign? is it benghazi, or is it president obama? joining me now is former adviser to former president bill clinton paul begala and columnist reheim salam. thanks to both of you for joining us. you just heard hillary clinton there. are you surprised that she dressed this issue head on? >> no, that's how she is. she's a completely candid person. and is completely up front and you'd have to be both soft-headed and hard-hearted to not go through what she went through at the state department and not single that out as the most tragic date she had there, just as i'm sure president bush and condoleezza rice are heartbroken over the 13 times embassies and consulates were attacked while they were president. you know, america puts these people into harm's way, have to do a better job of protecting them. i would point out that my republican friends who run the congress have been funding embassy security at a lower
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level than the president and hillary has been asking them to fund that security. in the case of benghazi it turns out i don't think it would have made a difference candidly, but fundamentally we have to protect the people we put in harm's way. >> you heard her there. do you think she was distancing herself from the president? is it the right political move? if so? >> i definitely think she was distancing herself from the president. it makes sense. she had a distinct political profile. had different views running against him the first time around and given that president obama is very unpopular, it makes sense for her to frame herself as being different, as being a change agent once again, so i think that she's right to do so. >> i want to talk about the potential problem for clinton because, you know, you saw rand paul. he addressed this problem, comments that his wife kelly made to "vogue" magazine that clinton's presidential run could be derailed by her husband's predatory behavior.
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senator paul doubled down on his wife's dig. >> i think the media seems to have given president clinton a pass on this. he took advantage of a girl that was 20 years old and an intern in his office. there is no excuse for that, and that is predatory behavior. >> is it something that hillary clinton should be judged on if she were a candidate in 2016? >> i'm not saying that. this is with regard to the clinton and sometimes it's hard to separate one from the other. >> hard to separate one from the other. saw you shaking your head there as you were watching it. do you think it's a fair critique? >> you know, i think it's foolish for rand paul to talk about what happened back in the late '90s. a lot more sense to talk about bill clinton and who he's been associating with since that time. there's a terrific article in the "new republic" by one of bill clinton's right-hand man. and there are a lot of questions about some of the people bill clinton has been associated himself with. hillary clinton is a separate person, but if that's the thing -- >> why is that a concern or a question? >> well, i think, you know, bill
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clinton is both a great asset. he's the great explainer. he's someone who is going to be very present. he's going to loom over hillary clinton's presidential prospects. on the other hand, he can also be a liability. so i think it's foolish to talk about monica lewinsky. let's talk more about the present. let's talk more about what's happening in recent years. >> paul, you want to weigh in on that? >> i'm burdened by the fact that i know doug bend. he's a terrific guy. he is now signed up his own business. no longer works for president clinton, but the notion that you can effectively attack hillary by attacking a guy who used to work for her husband. i think what's going on with rand paul, i don't know if you read it, a major article this weekend about rand paul and some of the folks politically he's been associated with, who he's in bed with politically but i don't want crass, associated with politically with really eccentric folks like neo-secessionists, people who don't support civil rights, people who think the south was right in the civil war. really -- really -- >> you guys are -- you guys are getting way into the weeds here.
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but when you're running for president, if she does run, isn't everything fair game? everyone who you've been in business with, your spouse. everything is fair game, no? >> nonsense, nonsense. >> why? >> it was fair game for barack obama, for bill clinton, for george w. bush, for -- no? >> hell, no. no. there ought to be some honor in this life of politics and i've been in it all my adult life. you don't go after family and you certainly don't go after children. we saw a terrible blowup when someone really unfortunately and unfairly criticized mitt romney's grandchild. that's crazy. you don't go after family or somebody's marriage. my goodness. ronald reagan had a failed marriage and republicans love him. president clinton and hillary have had a successful marriage. >> it's not about family and not about the attacks. the truth is the democratic party has changed since the '90s and there's an appetite for new faces. i think that hillary clinton's support is broad, but it's very shallow, and i think if you look at a guy like brian sweitzer, the former governor of montana,
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he's someone who is a pop ewe list and capturing some of that left-wing energy while on the other hand having a cultural profile that is different from the clintons who went from arkansas to wind up in new york, part of this global circle, very close to wall street. i think democrats want something different, and i think that's the liability for hillary clinton. >> stand by. i have to go. just one answer, please. >> what is the biggest threat for hillary clinton, benghazi, bill clinton or president obama? >> bill clinton. >> paul? >> which is a bigger threat for the denver broncos, wes welker or peyton manning? that's crazy. those two presidents, one current and one former are huge assets. >> are you going to answer the question? >> a silly question. >> no such thing as a silly question. which one do you think is a bigger threat, benghazi, bill clinton or barack obama. >> it's not a threat. >> first of all, clinton and obama are assets. it's a stilly question. >> thank you very much. >> appreciate you both joining us. >> is it intervention time for justin bieber.
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the embattled teen pop star left miami over the weekend and has since been seen strolling the beaches in panama with his entourage. usher has also been spotted down there. he's posing for a picture with the same fan as justin bieber, but it's not clear if he's in panama for a serious heart to heart with the teen. joining us now is lindsay lohan's father michael lohan. thank you for joining us again on cnn. it's been reported you staged a number of interventions to try to get lindsay into treatment. time for an intervention for justin bieber? >> i think so, but, then again, it's all about the approach. there's different kinds of intervention. a staged intervention which they do on the show "intervention" where you actually bring a person to a controlled environment with all the people that care about him and want him in treatment and then there's an extreme intervention where you actually go to the person and then again if you went to justin in the situation that he's in it could be a hostile environment
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where the people don't want him in treatment and you don't know if they are going to be supportive or not, so like we do with dream recovery international, we kind of weigh the situation out and see who he is with. i don't know -- you're saying he's with his entourage down there, probably the same people from miami. they're probably not the best people to be around him mow and probably not the people who want him to get into treatment. so i would really try to get him into a controlled setting rather than go and try to approach him. >> i understand you tell our producers that you see a lot of similarities between your daughter and justin bieber. over the summer lindsay completed a court-ordered 90-day stay in rehab. >> yeah. >> if bieber needs treatment, what will it take for him to realize that? will a court have to come in and order it? >> don, there's so many different things that could happen. who knows what a person's epiphany or their bottom is going to be. i mean, only they do. a court sometimes that would -- i mean, wake them up. i mean, the light bulb would go on and say if it's jail or going
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to rehab, i'll go to rehab, but then again, that might be the wrong reason. you shouldn't have to go to rehab because you're facing jail time. you should want to. then again, i can't say sometimes when you're forced into a position it doesn't stick sometimes and it doesn't, have you know, a got effect on you. you know, it's really up to justin. i think you should really take time to sit back and look at where his life was s and where it could go but he's so caught up in the everyday life of living like a star and running amok with all this partying and having fun and doing the wrong thing. he doesn't take time to sit and think about it, and the people around him sure aren't saying, listen, justin. you've got to do something, you know. i think his mom is now at some point, but you need two parents on the same page, and i hope his parents do get on the same page together. >> thank you very much. michael lohan, appreciate it. still to come, macklemore took home the grammy for the best rap album. did he win because he's white?
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last night the grammys were handed out and despite the fact there was a surprise appearance from madonna, a mass wedding and a beatles reunion, most of the
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talk is about the rapper macklemore who won four awards. in addition to trophy for best artist he swept the best categories winning for best rap album, best rap performance and best rap song and yet there's controversy surrounding his win. most of the focus on his race. he's white and was his winning racist? i'm joined by coolio, john farley and joel parisman. thought you'd never be on a panel talking to coolio. how cool is that? >> how you doing, man? >> a great country. >> good to talk to you. >> did macklemore deserve to win? is he the future of hip hop or does rap need to evolve, do you think? >> i think that he did win, you know, he had the best song. i mean, his song was -- was, you know, very -- it was very timely. i mean, with the controversy surrounding gay marriage and,
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you know, all the other things, you know, involved with -- with being gay and all the activism. i think that, you know, he had the right song at the right time. as far as best rap album. i heard his album and heard some other people's albums. i don't think he had the best rap album, but i do think he had the most timely and best, you know, song, and it was well thought out and the planned. >> i'll ask that question to chris. what do you think. does rap need to evolve, do you think, or did he have the best rap album? >> i think coolio is exactly right. one of the reasons macklemore is he had a song "same love" that dealt with issues people were dealing with right now, about same-sex marriage, the other people in hip hop aren't talking about. rappers need to come up with songs that address issues people -- >> talking about homophobia back in 2005. >> not in his music. >> not in a way that was upfront and not in a way that was
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engaining or controversial as "same love." >> he merely made some comments, made some references to it in his music. it was not as up front as it was in this song. >> so my question about evolving. because it seems macklemore is socially conscious. talking about things in the culture. do rap artists, hip-hop artists need to raise the conversation? >> here's the other thing. there are other great albums out there. >> nas has a great album. >> kanye west, that's what makes people upset, the fact there was other great stuff out there. >> kanye west says i'm 36 years old and i have 21 grammys, most grammys out of 36-year-olds. out of all of them i've never won a grammy against a white artist. you've won a grammy award. do white performers get preferential treatment, do you think? >> i'm not necessarily going to say they get preferential treatment.
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they have the opportunity to become more popular than -- than, you know, than some african-american or other race artists. i think that because they are white they, you know, they get -- they sometimes get more -- they get more air play. they get more, they're on more talk shows. they're, you know, sought out by more people because they are more mainstream and macklemore is clean cut. he's not some fly-by-night kid. he's been in the business for a long time, i mean, you know. i don't think -- i don't think that he won because he was white. i think he -- maybe he won all of them because he's white. >> go ahead, joel. >> hip-hop and rap music like all music is always evolving. one thing you don't want to get away from in all this news here is how great all the people in that category were. >> right. >> and the product they made. any time you categorize something in an awards show like that someone is going to win and some people aren't.
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it's going to be good for music in general. >> only four hip hop acts in the rock 'n' roll hall of fame. does rap get the respect it deserves? >> i think it gets the attention for the artists, it needs to get more. >> coolio is going no. >> i think we needs more people that are going to be in there. it's interesting, the definition of rock 'n' roll is really broad. and we deal with this all the time, that people think it has no place in the rock 'n' roll hall of fame, we think it does. >> why do you say no, coolio? >> you look at hip-hop, hip-hop has been the most popular music for the last 20 years. excuse my french, but [ bleep ] yeah, it needs to -- you know, it's like people act like rappers aren't creative, but actually they're a lot more creative than people give them credit for. a lot of singers, they don't write their own songs. most rappers write their own material. they come up with their own
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songs. they do everything for themselves. whereas you take a lot of r & b artists or a lot of folk singers or whatever they don't do anything. they just got a good voice. >> last night we saw two living beatles perform, it's been 50 years since they performed on the ed sullivan show. which artist do you think will have the staying power like the beatles? >> i think that's one of the beautiful things we celebrate at the rock 'n' roll hall of fame is it takes a while for someone to be inducted. a lot of these artists of today, whether it's mumford and sons or pearl jam or green day, a lot of these artists who have been pumping out music for a long time, will they be around for 50 years? you'll see what happens. >> you said green day -- >> well, there's green day, pearl jam, plenty -- there's so many artists that are making such great music now. >> i don't hear any rap or --
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>> nwa and public enemy. there's people that are going to be -- >> as iconic as the beatles or michael jackson. >> eminem, even though he's not black, is he going to be -- jay z unquestionably is going to be the kind of person that has the staying power to be relevant and around for the future. >> kanye is headed to the rock 'n' roll hall of fame at some point. and the fugees at some point. there are a lot of great hip hop acts at some point should make it. you mention the british invasion, i think we see history repeat itself. the beatles are terrific. but -- >> i don't see you mention coolio. >> you were there. >> i don't think i'm feeling that very much. >> i'd like for you to do it, man. >> i tell you who is one of the most important artists that was at the grammy's last night who performed. that's pink. pink is incredible. she did an incredible performance. who does circus acts and circus --
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>> it's like watching cirque du soleil, right? >> she's off the chain. >> all right, coolio. >> that's who we should be talking about now. >> thank you, i appreciate all of you, great conversation, we were talking about the beatles, it was 50 years ago the beatles arrived in the united states for their first american tour. you can watch the british invasion unfold as it happens. thursday night 9:00 on cnn. great conversation, again. thanks to all of you. still to come, there was another star at last night's grammy's. we take a look at pharrell's hat. next. [ male announcer ] this is george.
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[ m'm... ] great taste. [ tapping ] sounds good. campbell's healthy request. m'm! m'm! good.® forget macklemore and daft punk, the big winner at last night's grammy awards was
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pharrell's hat. just about everyone had something to say about it. >> you would think he had two heads, by how much fuss everyone made over his hat. >> look at that thing. pointing out the similarity to smoking the bear, even canadian mounty comparisons. the co-hosts of the talk tried to imitate. >> when's the last time you heard a hat get enthusiastic applause. >> his hat was an everyone bigger win. >> close second in the winner department was arby's who said, hey, pharrell, can we have our hat back. >> he actually responded to that by saying, you all trying to start a roast beef. >> his hat had its own twitter
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account and gave a shout out to the hats wore bioco ono and her son. he bragged, i'm definitely more fashionable than madonna's grill. fighting commentary for a halt. buzz feed speculated on things that might be hiding under pharrell's hat, a dancing baby, justin bieber's lamborghini. what pharrell needs is a hard hat to wear over his grammy's hat to protect from the momry. one critic tweeted it looked like a big toe. well, at least this is a designer big toe. >> it's vivian westwood. it's a buffalo hat. >> featured in "buffalo gals." considered classic early hip hop. ♪ >> the hat do-si-do'd up the runway. and vivian westwood's 1982, '83 fall collection. bored with your old hat? you too can own the exact same hat that pharrell wore to the grammy's for a mere 157 bucks.
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they call it the mountain hat. though it's also known as the jelly mold hat. it's daft punk's helmets couldn't compete with pharrell's hat which inspired neil patrick harris to tweet, only pharrell williams could prevent forest fires. >> all of a sudden i want a roast beef sandwich. piers morgan live is next. tato truck is still missing. so my dog and i we're going to go find it. it's out there somewhere spreading the good word about idaho potatoes and raising money for meals on wheels. but we'd really like our truck back, so if you see it, let us know, would you? thanks. what?
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six days and counting for the big game. broncos versus seahawks and everyone knows about this. >> don't you open your mouth or you may have it closed real quick. >> how richard sherman denied all the odds growing up in south central l.a. richard went to stanford got a university degree and will be in sunday's super bowl. it's an amazing story. who better to tell it than richard's own family. also, the olympics are here, look at the unprecedented


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