tv Legal View With Ashleigh Banfield CNN February 23, 2016 9:00am-10:01am PST
this is cnn breaking news. >> hello, everyone. i'm ashleigh banfield. for seven years, president obama has vowed to shut down the prison at guantanamo bay, cuba, and for good. this morning, he delivered on those plans. and sent them to congress. there are 91 detainees still left at that detention center. the president's plan involves sending the bulk of them to other countries. and then moving the rest, those who can't be transferred abroad because they've been simply just deemed too dangerous. well, they are bound for some sort of facility here in the united states. now, there's a big problem here.
many americans are concerned about the really bad ones, those bad detainees, coming to a prison here in the u.s. maybe even close to where they live. in a speech at the white house just a short time ago, the president addressed those very concerns. >> i want to say, i am very clear-eyed about the hurdles to finally closing guantanamo. the politics of this are tough. i think a lot of the american public are worried about terrorism and in their mind, the notion of having terrorists held in the united states rather than in some distant place can be scary. but part of my message to the american people is we're already holding a bunch of really dangerous terrorists here in the united states, because we threw the book at them. and there have been no
incidents. we've managed it just fine. and in congress, i recognize that in part because of the fears of the public, that have been fanned oftentimes by misinformation, there continues to be a fair amount of opposition to closing guantanamo. if it were easy, it would have happened years ago, as i wanted, as i have been working to try to get done. but there remains bipartisan support for closing it. and given the stakes involved for our security, this plan deserves a fair hearing. even in an election year. we should be able to have an open, honest, good faith dialogue about how to best ensure our national security. and the fact that i'm no longer running, joe is no longer running, we're not on the ballot, it gives us the capacity
to not have to worry about the politics. let us do what is right for america. let us go ahead and close this chapter and do it right, do it carefully, do it in a way that makes sure we're safe. but gives the next president and more importantly future generations the ability to apply the lessons that we've learned in the fight against terrorism and doing it in a way that doesn't raise some of the problems that guantanamo has raised. i really think there's an opportunity here for progress. i believe we've got an obligation to try. >> our pentagon correspondent barbara starr joins me now on this momentous story. the president just said politics of this are tough. i think that really understates this story. it's nothing compared to the logistics and the law. but break down the elements of
how he thinks he can get beyond those. >> well, it is exactly what you said, ashleigh. the politics are the starting point. congress has passed laws and the president has signed them because it's part of the budget bill, saying that no money will be spent to transfer detainees, these enemy combatants to the united states. that is prohibited right now. and in fact, defense secretary carter has said there would have to be some new facility built. the military has said it will not violate that law. so everyone has staked out their positions, and there is considerable republican and democratic opposition in congress to moving these people to the united states. so that is the first case that the president really is going to have to make while he's still working the overall plan to continue to transfer some of them overseas, have other countries look after them. but getting them back to the united states, whether it's the
u.s. naval brig, ft. levinworth, security prisons in colorado, building a whole new facility, whatever it is. it is this political hurdle. will the traffic really bear having these people back in the united states? and right now all indications are it will not. ashleigh? >> all right. barbara starr covering this for us at the pentagon. i want to bring in david reems now, a human rights attorney. happens to represent 12 of these detainees currently at guantanamo bay. david, thank you so much for being with me. you are so important to speak to today. i have a zillion questions and i will start with a simple one. logistical logistically, now that you've seen what the president has outlined, do you see any of it as possible? >> i think guantanamo is going to remain open forever, because i don't think congress is ever going to let detainees be brought into the u.s., and i don't think any state is going to allow them in even if congress let the president bring them into the united states.
>> okay, i understand your argument. even if congress miraculously could agree on this, you're saying the states would raise their own legal challenges to having these people cross into their borders and to these facilities. let's just say we can get beyond even that. legally speaking, don't we then have to treat these enemy combatants as actual civilian representatives who need american justice? which mean the game changes and they now are subject to u.s. jurisprudence, and that is a really high bar for these people, isn't it? >> i don't think so. you have to look at the practicalities of it. while they may have more rights on paper, which i'm not sure that they do, no judge is ever going to release them into the general population of the united states. and no judge is going to force the united states government to transfer them to other countries. so whatever may happen as a theoretical matter isn't going to be reflected in what actually
happens. >> you can't just hold these detainees at a super max, at an american civil justice facility. don't they have to be convicted? a lot of these guys haven't even been tried yet. as far as collecting, let's say, evidence from a battlefield 15 years ago, i'm just having a really tough time wrapping my head around a trial for some of these guys, if you want to move them to a place like super max. >> you're absolutely right. the notion that they should be moved to a place like a super max is absurd. they haven't been accused of any crime, much less committed. and the problem isn't lack of evidence. the problem is lack of a crime to charge them with. you're right, they can't be held indefinitely without charge, and if you simply bring guantanamo detainees to the united states, you're moving guantanamo, but you're not closing it. >> and help me to understand how things change once they would set foot on american soil, on the mainland. does that then enter them into a legal process where the clock
starts ticking and constitutional rights kick in where you have a right to a speedy trial? meaning you've got to go ahead with something with whatever you've got on these guys. >> if they can't be accused of a crime, they can't be tried in a federal court. it's as simple as that. >> so what you're saying is if they're moving them to super max, they've got to have a case to try in court with evidence that will reach a bar of conviction to keep them in the super max. >> they have to have a crime to accuse them of. that's what i'm saying. >> and can you find no crime? have you not had their hats tip to you at all after about 15 years for many of them, what crime they would come up with? >> i think i have to leave that to the justice department to opine on. >> material support. simple, isn't it? >> well, number one, material support has been ruled untriable by the military commissions. number two, the question is what constitutes material support. we need specifics from
prosecutors before we can make any decisions. right now, the prosecutors have gone after individuals who are alleged to have done directly damage to the united states. such as the 9/11 attack. the cold bombing. at worst, or at most, the vast majority of these individuals who are still at guantanamo were individuals who were fighting for the taliban against the northern alliance. they were engaged in a civil war on one side of it. they only became enemies of the united states when the united states declared that the taliban was an enemy. this was not fighting against the united states. >> we have so much more to cover on this, and i hope you'll come back. i have a thousand more questions for you just to scratch the surface. david reems, thank you for taking the time. >> thank you. in the meantime, the candidates are wasting absolutely no time, i suppose you would expect so, reacting to the president's plan to close guantanamo. the detention facility there. and on the campaign trail in
nevada, senator marco rubio had this to say about this very issue. >> you wake up this morning to the news that the president is planning to close guantanamo. maybe even giving it back to the cuban government. [ audience booing ] this makes no sense to me. number one, we're not giving back an important naval base to an anti-american communist dictatorship. [ applause ] and number two, we're not going to close guantanamo. in fact, we shouldn't be releasing the people that are there now. they are enemy combatants. these are literally enemy combatants, in essence soldiers, not soldiers, terrorists of foreign terrorist organizations, many of whom as soon as you release them, they rejoin the fight against us. not only are they not going to close guantanamo. when i'm president, if we capture a terrorist alive, they're not getting a court hearing in manhattan. they're not going to be sent to nevada. they're going to guantanamo. and we're going to find out
everything they know. >> so ohio governor john kasich is also weighing in, saying about this plan to fox news, "these are people, some of them are the worst of the worst. why would we send them into our country? i profoundly disagree." in the meantime, on the democratic side, senator bernie sanders tweeting about this issue, saying "guantanamo has damaged our moral standing and undermined our foreign policy. i'm glad to see a plan to shut it down." joining us with more now is cnn white house correspondent michelle kusinski. so i want to go back to senator rubio for a moment and the comments that he made almost instantaneously when this plan was announced. he's not only running for president, michelle, he's still on capitol hill, too. this isn't just a fight in a campaign. this is going to be a fight on capitol hill as well. is he planning to spearhead this? does he have a lot of support behind him? is it just super partisan? give me the read on it. >> i mean, this is coming out
now, this plan to have an additional bill. it's not 100% necessary, because in the defense authorization act that the president signed not very long ago, there were restrictions on having some of these detainees come back to the u.s. this is kind of above and beyond. there's likely to be support of it. even though it's not 100% necessary that it go all the way through. because those restrictions are there. the white house knows that they're there. the white house has asked about this. they're being such staunch opposition in congress. the white house says well, we feel it's our responsibility to present this plan. there has been bipartisan support in the past. although now, in this climate, that seems pretty unlikely. even john mccain, that the white house often cites as being one republican who supports the closure of gitmo, he is statement that he put out today was pretty critical of what the president put out today, saying that well, it could have been earlier. it should have been much more detailed. but he did say that senate armed
services would give this a closer look. you're right, though. there's lots of opposition out there. some of it bears questioning. i mean, marco rubio just said that we are not going to be returning gitmo back to cuba. i mean, that's not in the president's plan at all. in fact, the white house says that's not in the cards. but there's arguments like, well, we can't have these people transferred even though some of the terrorists in the past -- the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, a 9/11 plotter. they've been tried and held in the united states. when you press them on that argument, what's the difference? what we're hearing now is that the people who are left at guantanamo bay are the worst of the worst. that's what they're saying the difference is. the white house, of course, takes issue with that. takes great issue with that argument. and we will be hearing more from the white house today on their response to some of this opposition that's really coming
out pretty quickly. >> yeah. all right, michelle, thank you for that. i appreciate it. i want to be really clear for our viewers right now. because in this campaign, i'll let you get back to your coverage, michelle -- in this campaign, you're going to hear a lot of noise about this. but what this plan says is closing it doesn't mean just scattering everybody into the woods. it doesn't mean releasing people. it means looking to try them or release them, or maybe even try them in other countries. so there's going to be a lot of logistics you're going to hear about and you're going to hear a lot of spin on the logistics. so just be super cautious about the campaigning and how they spin what this plan is. but clearly the president has an uphill battle with all of the elements in this. so coming up today, it's tuesday. it is a great tuesday. it's just not a super tuesday. still a critical day in the race, though. republicans ready to caucus in nevada today. democrats face the south carolina voters on tonight's cnn town hall stage. it is a whirlwind day on the campaign trail. and we've got the breakdown and the headlines for you next. we stop arthritis pain,
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undecided primary voters in south carolina. hillary clinton is a heavy favorite in her party's first southern primary on saturday. bernie sanders is already looking far past it to super tuesday, a week today. both will appear in a cnn town hall at 8:00 eastern time tonight, hosted by my colleague chris cuomo. 53 democratic democrats. 30 republican delegates at stake in nevada. so you've got to tune in to the town hall. you've got to tune in to the debate on thursday of this week as well. the first of the nevada caucuses gets under way for the gop at 5:00 p.m. local. that's 8:00 p.m. eastern time. and that is tonight. and that's why chris got on a plane and headed to vegas to check out the scene there. he's on the strip there, counting down the seconds. a couple of questions. fair to say that donald trump is already kind of running the table in the polls there. is there anything that looks to be upset worthy or any big story
that's kind of eking its way out of those casinos? >> reporter: well, this is a notoriously difficult state to poll in. largely because there's such low turnout here among republicans in nevada. there's 400,000 registered republicans in nevada. they only expect about 10% of those folks, 40,000 to come out. while donald trump is leading in the polls, he's got about 45% support. marco rubio coming in second at 19%. ted cruz is 17%, according to our latest cnn poll. those numbers are very difficult to get your head around because participation is so low here, ashley. >> there's no clocks in vegas because they want you to stay in those casinos and think day is night and night is day. my guess is a lot of people might be visitors and wouldn't need the clocks to go and vote anyway. but if you've got that low of a turnout, is trump even talking about the possibility of not pulling in the big win that he
likes to sort of, i don't know, talk blustery about? >> well, certainly donald trump is saying that he is going to win nevada. he wants to cement a big win here, because then he will have won the last three contests in a row. more than just winning the contest. that will put him much more ahead in that delegate count, which is so important. he's got about 60 delegates so far. ted cruz and marco rubio, his two biggest competitors down in the 10, 11-count number. so he's look for a strong finish here and he's arguing he is the frontrunner. ted cruz, of course, arguing he's the only true conservative in this race. and marco rubio saying he's the only candidate who can ute all republicans to take on the democrats in november. but the other thing to point out here, when you talk about the low turnout and the poor organization that many gop officials worry about tonight is counting the votes. now, in iowa, there were 170,000 iowans who showed up to caucus.
they got microsoft involved to help count those votes. it's kind of the gold standard of caucusing. they've been doing it forever. here in nevada, this is only the third presidential republican primary. and they're vote counting. they tally these votes here in clark county, where 73% of nevada's population is here in las vegas, clark county. they're going to tally those votes by hand on an envelope. they're going to then take a picture of that envelope and send that picture, text that picture to county and state officials, and that's how they'll get their count. so this could be a very late night tonight, ashleigh, as they take pictures, count these things by hand, and remember, the caucuses here end at 9:00 local time. that's midnight on the east coast. so we won't be getting results here in nevada until very, very late or early morning wednesday. >> sure. well, you and your friends are beginning to have to get used to being up late in vegas for a weird change. thank you.
>> reporter: thank you, ashleigh. >> you know, in the flap that cost ted cruz his communications director -- his job, donald trump says the buck stops with texas senator ted cruz and rival presidential contender. wow. trump tweets. go figure. was ted cruz disloyal to his very capable director of communications? he used him as a scapegoat. fired like a dog. ted panicked. the firing offense was a video clip that wrongly suggested marco rubio was dissing the bible, no less. on top of several other alleged dirty tricks from team cruz, this one prompted trump to up his attacks, calling cruz not only a liar, but he actually called him sick. we should point out that ted cruz did apologize and correct the record on that mistake about the bible. and how rubio knows about the bible. but at a las vegas rally, donald trump stopped short of advocating actual violence.
saying that for his ever-present hecklers -- i'll let him finish it. >> you know what i hate? there's a guy totally disruptive. throwing punches. we're not allowed to punch back anymore. i love the old days. you know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? they'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks. here's a guy throwing punches, nasty as hell, screaming at everything else when we're talking, and walking out, and the guards are very gentle with him. he's walking out like big high fives, smiling. i'd like to punch him in the face, i'll tell you. >> didn't want to cut that short. trubiotics a probiotic from one a day naturally helps support both your digestive and >> hello, how are you? >> i'm okay.
i've come to work confounded almost every day. i do have this very simple question for you about this kind of stuff. i know every time something donald does, we ask you about and we just move on and all of his supporters move on, too. but i do want to ask you this. when you say it's okay to punch a guy in the face, we're not allowed to punch them out anymore, i just wonder about the decorum of the election and of the voters. are you okay personally backing trump knowing that we have really kind of sunk to a level where thuggery is okay and high school football rivalry taken by the stands conversation seems to be okay? are you really okay with it? >> ashleigh, here's what i think about this. i am old enough, alas, to remember the 1968 presidential campaign. i remember vividly the riots in chicago conducted by the american left. and then when the convention was over, the american left did to hubert humphrey, of all people, exactly what they are now today's american left is doing to donald trump. they went to his rallies, they
provoked, they threatened, they did exactly this. and in the day, hubert humphrey had the secret service and the police drag them out. and i've been rereading this morning the account in the making of the president 1968 by theodore h. white. this has happened before. this is what the american left does. they go to these places to provoke. to deliberately get this kind of reaction. >> jeffrey, i hear you, but i don't know that ever i have heard the candidates using four-letter words and advocating violence to the point where a colleague over at nbc tweeted out that he started railing on the media again, and one of the supporters actually turned to katy tur and said, you b-i-t-c-h and someone else gave the double bird. it's very un-american. >> i think the inciting is coming from the other direction. if these people weren't doing
it, donald trump -- >> jeffrey, don't get me wrong. i need to correct you there. the inciting was coming from donald trump, at the moment he pointed to the media, he's called them hideous things before. he's used very derogatory language, in a country where the first amendment is one of our most protected, sacred things, and he's calling the media, part of that first amendment, deplorable, disgusting pigs. and this is inciting his followers to turn directly to katy tur and say you're a bitch. this is bad. you've got to agree, this is bad. >> first of all, i don't encourage anybody to call anybody the "b" word. >> thank you. >> secondly, i haven't lost all my sensibility here. but i do have to say this is what goes. and let me just tell you quickly a snapshot of this. as you know, i have a book out on donald trump. last night, i was doing a book event, a book signing and a talk sponsored by a radio show in suburban philadelphia. there were about 150 people there. the event had sold out.
i can only tell you from the questions i got from the audience, they are furious with the american news media. they think -- and i'm just repeating here what i heard. that they are biased. that they are mean, nasty, arrogant, contempt, and corruptible. and i'm just telling you what i was told by audience members last night. they're really upset. so when i hear this kind of thing from donald trump, i can only say that this sentiment is out there independent of donald trump. >> i just feel like this wouldn't have happened during your reagan days. it was just a different decorum back then. it was respectable to be in politics. it was respectable to speak on the stage. but i do want to ask you this, just because i've gone on too long on this topic. the strategies here. i've got to get this from you. 70% of the american gop electorate does not back donald trump. and the other candidates have their sights focused on that 70% to try to divide them up. but now we're hearing about a memo from an anti-trump super
pac saying no, go after trump. here are the talking points. here's how you do it. do you think trump needs to be worried about this? >> no, i don't. and i'll tell you why. i think that the moment the establishment has been perceived as anti-trump. and you saw where that got jeb bush with $100 million-plus. i think if the establishment tries to regather here and go to marco rubio or whatever, this is to the detriment of whatever candidate they swing behind. again, i don't think these people have any idea how much they are loathed by the rank and file base of the republican party. and i don't think they're going to help anybody if they do that. and further more, i think if some of these candidates get out, if for example senator cruz dropped out of the race, i think a lot of his votes would go to donald trump. >> jeffrey, i always love having you on. i will say thank you, sir, to maintaining the decorum of this conversation. >> any time, ma'am. >> and i look forward to our next conversation soon, i hope. >> okay, thanks. >> jeffrey joining us live again today. before super tuesday, the five
republican candidates are going to battle it out in a debate in texas with cnn's wolf blitzer as the moderator. that next gop debate is this thursday, 8:30 p.m. eastern, only here on cnn. coming up next, it's all about south carolina for the dems. with tonight's cnn town hall there ahead of saturday's primary. got a live picture for you from the town hall where hillary clinton and bernie sanders will be speaking live with our chris cuomo tonight. might be surprised to find out where bernie sanders is right now, though. we're going to hear from mr. sanders, senator sanders from -- yeah, see the upper right-hand corner of your screen? norfolk, virginia. this guy is moving on, folks, but he will be on that stage tonight. the outside you have to feel healthy... ...at your core. trubiotics a probiotic from one a day naturally helps support both your digestive and immune health by combining... ... two types of good bacteria. trubiotics. be true to your health. ever since i had a pretty bad accident three years ago.
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bernie sanders campaigning in virginia today, speaking at a rally tonight. actually, right now in norfolk, virginia. let's go live and listen. >> 15 bucks an hour. [ cheers and applause ] and i would hope that every man in this arena this afternoon will stand with the women in the fight for pay equity for women workers. and let me say something else about the economy. when we talk about unemployment, what we usually see once a month on the front pages of the papers are official unemployment, which is now nationally about 5%. 5%. anybody here believe that real unemployment in america is 5%?
smart group. you're right. there's another report that you don't see so much that comes out, which looks at people unemployed and people who have given up looking for work, and people who are working part-time when they want to work full-time. >> bernie sanders is speaking in norfolk, virginia. no, it's not wrong on your screen. he skipped ahead to the super tuesday state, spending some time there before he heads back to south carolina because he's got four days until the democratic primary in that state. in the meantime, the candidates are making their last pitch to the voters there in a cnn town hall that is tonight. in the hours leading up to the event, hillary clinton is vying for support from the african-american community. the mothers of trayvon martin, sandra bland, and eric garner are among those set to join a clinton campaign appearance there. and as we just saw, senator sanders on the stump, not only in south carolina, rallying those voters in virginia instead. so he's sort of hopscotching
back and forth, which gives us a chance in the meantime to talk more about the strategies. jonathan stasini is the author of "the essential bernie sanders and his vision for america" and he is live with me now. i am expecting that hillary clinton, who has sharpened her message against your candidate, is going to go after his freebies campaign, saying it's not appropriate to promise things that you can't deliver on. and he will come right back at her about her wall street speech transcripts, asking over and over again when will she release them. am i wrong? >> well, let me answer the question, but i want to say one thing because i was listening to the segment that you had previously. and the nonsense that your guest put out about what happened in 1968 was legendary. and i think you are absolutely right. let's put a fine point on this. donald trump is a bully. he's a pathological liar. and a dangerous person. and that's something that bernie sanders had said. so i'm reflecting what the campaign thinks. it's just outrageous the way he's fomenting this anger and
violence in america. so to your point and to your question, i think the town halls that you guys are putting on are terrific. they really give a chance for voters to hear at length from either candidate. i think both candidates have done quite well in those formats. i think that bernie is going to continue to talk about the things he's talked about for the last several months. which is the inequality in america. the fact that people don't have decent wages. the need to break up the big banks. he's going to appeal to those people who have come to him in large numbers in the first three states. he's done phenomenally well. i think the reason he's going to virginia and the other super tuesday states is there are a lot of delegates at stake. there's going to be a huge number of delegates in the next three or four weeks allocated. >> i know the town hall was planned well in advance before the tragedy that befell kalamazoo, michigan. and we're going to cover that in the next couple blocks, what's
happening with regard to that alleged shooter there. do you expect that is beginning to make its way on to the stage and that hillary clinton will try to capitalize on gun control and where she thinks bernie sanders has a weak spot? >> well, bernie sanders does not have a weak spot, as you point out, when it comes to that. bernie sanders has always been, actually, for taking those kinds of guns off the street that create these huge death tolls, these massacres in schools. >> no, no, no. we're talking about handguns -- he allegedly had a handgun, not the ar-15s that we're talking about. >> let me finish. and everything that bernie has talked about ties gun control to mental health issues. and there's no question that this -- not just alleged shooter. he is a white terrorist who killed many innocent people. that's a mental health issue. and bernie has always talked about gun control in the context of us having to have a much better mental health system that deals with people like this. who are quite clearly sick. >> i'm looking forward to see if this does get some treatment on the stage tonight and there's a lot more that will happen.
jonathan, good to see you as always. thank you. >> all right, ashleigh, see you again. >> okay, i hope so, and i hope soon. bernie sanders and hillary clinton are going to come face to face with the voters tonight in south carolina. do not miss cnn's democratic town hall moderated by our own chris cuomo, 8:00 eastern tonight. back right after this. i'm here to get the lady of the house back on her feet. and give her the strength and energy to stay healthy. who's with me?! yay! the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in!
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you may have ibs. bloating? ask your doctor if non-prescription ibgard is right for you. ibgard calms the angry gut. available at cvs and walgreens. donald trump is looking for his third straight win of the presidential nominating season tonight, and thanks largely to south carolina, trump holds a wide lead in these early days of the delegate race. 30 delegates are at stake tonight in nevada. thanks to so-called super
delegates, hillary clinton holds a gigantic lead on the democratic side. the so-called pledge delegates awarded during those primaries and caucuses are almost evenly split between sanders and clinton. before i get any further into that, i want to bring in republican consultant and president of the group empower women, mindy finch. she's leaning toward supporting marco rubio. and democratic strategy robert zimmerman, who is a super delegate himself, pledged to hillary clinton. since you're so super, i'd like to start with you, robert. first of all, could you explain to our viewers why it has been said that super delegates don't actually matter. and do they have to stay loyal? those two competing wisdoms. >> well, first of all. i know you look very overwhelmed that i'm a super delegate, ashleigh, so i'll try to move past that. hopefully it doesn't intimidate you. the reality is super delegates, first of all, are all elected. almost all of them are elected. they are members of congress who are democrats. senators, governors, or people like myself, who are members of
the democratic national committee, elected by our local grass roots democratic organizations in our states. for my case, new york state. so we all come from elected audiences. and the reason that we're part of the process is because we play a role in terms of providing another perspective of the discussion around the rules of the convention, the credentials of the convention, the platform. and we also play a role in the nominating process. but let's be clear, ashleigh. super delegates have never played a role, a pivotal role, a decisive role in choosing who the nominee is. the nominees always come from the primaries and caucuses. it will again this year. considering the fact that democrats have won the vote in five of the six last elections, the formula is working pretty well. >> they might have a psychological effect. when you see those big numbers and see delegate, it might have some kind of effect. >> or the reverse effect, too. >> could, you're right. very good point. mindy, i guess the critical point here is that you have to
have scientific experts on a campaign to make sense of the actual delegate allotment in each of these contests. it's not simple. almost every state has a different kind of system, whether it's winner take all or proportional, whether you hit a threshold, what number that threshold is. i actually want to know, do these campaigns employ strict mathematicians to try to map out their strategies and do we know what strategies absolutely don't work when it comes to math? >> these campaigns do have experts from the individual states who are experts in that state. they've worked in politics. they're in touch with elected officials. and so they do understand this delegate math. maybe they worked at the political party during a presidential election year. and had to wade through this. so i think they're quite prepared of what's needed on the math side of the equation. for voters at home, it can get very, very confusing. the media tends to report who won a state or who's winning. and doesn't focus so much on delegates. now that we're past a caucus and
a couple primaries here, there's more focus on delegates. but i think what's important to understand is yes, because of the delegate math, it can appear, for example, that donald trump -- you know, he's won two states. you might say he's running away with the contest, but you hear that other candidates like marco rubio or ted cruz or john kasich even have a chance. and they do have a chance, because in some of these states, it's not a winner take all. you can win a congressional district and get a few delegates and be able to compete on the delegate front. but the delegates and the winners of states are not divorced. it's actually quite important to start winning states. and if you don't win, you have to be a very, very close second in order to win some of these congressional delegates. i think that's concerning for people who wonder is there a path for someone else beyond trump is we're still divided. >> i have to jump in there, only because i think the most salient thing that i just heard was that it is super complex. i encourage everyone to go online at cnn.com and dig up
these delegate thresholds. you have to have a degree for this. >> i would give you a clue, a hint, though, it's always a sure sign that the campaign is in trouble when they start blaming and attacking the delegate rules or they start getting personal. >> or they start firing their communications strategy. >> exactly. >> i have to leave it there, robert. sorry. i'm just flat out of time. thanks so much for joining us, and we're back right after this. we stop arthritis pain, so you don't have to stop. tylenol® 8hr arthritis pain has two layers of pain relief. the first is fast. the second lasts all day. we give you your day back. what you do with it is up to you. tylenol®. my man, lemme guess who you're wearing... everyone's lookin' red carpet ready. toenail fungus!? whaaat?!?
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the michigan shooting spree case, not so much a whodunit, but a why. jason dalton is now charged with six counts of murder, and two counts of assault with attempt to murder in the random shooting spree in kalamazoo that happened on saturday. the mystery, of course, is motive. we know that dalton was picking up passengers for uber in between these alleged shootings, and one of these passengers spoke with anderson cooper about a mystery phone call that happened during his wild ride. have a listen. >> we got about a mile from my
house. he received a telephone call. it was over the bluetooth. inside the car. i could hear the conversation. he stated that he had a rider in the car and that he would call them back immediately after he had dropped me off. once he hung up with that phone call is when he started driving really erratically. >> our nick valencia joins me live now from kalamazoo. there are so many elements of the story that people don't understand, especially those close to the people who were shot. >> reporter: well, we know where the shooter was just a few hours before he carried out this alleged shooting spree. i spoke to the owner of the gun store, where the suspected gunman was out just a few hours before he carried out this killing spree. he didn't purchase a gun there or ammunition, but what he did do was buy a heavy duty 511 conceal and carry jacket, a jacket that makes it easier to access a weapon if it's holstered on your side. also pockets in there where you
could conceal and carry a weapon. the owner describes the suspected gunman as being in a good mood. he was smiling. he also entered the store with a friend. he was so regular of a customer that the gun store owner recognized him when he walked in and said it wasn't until the next day when he saw the mugshot of this suspected gunman that he put it all together. we have been talking to neighbors of the victims in this shooting. one was a neighbor of the first victim that was shot at this apartment complex. she called her neighbor a hero and stepped in between the gunman and children who he appeared to be aiming at as well. >> the car had drove by, asked if they knew misty. and they said no. and then it had circled around again. and i don't know if it was her mother instinct, she just knew something was wrong. told them to run. >> so she was a hero. could have been the kids that were shot. >> could have been the kids. i really think that if any kids
were out there, she would have done it for anyone's kids. >> so distressing. our nick valencia covering this for us live in kalamazoo. thank you for that. and thank you, everyone, for watching. kate bolduan is in for wolf. she starts after this break. and restores tooth enamel. it's an easy way to give listerine® total care to the total family. listerine® total care. one bottle, six benefits. power to your mouth™.
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the greatest library of oscar moments, simply by using your voice. live oscar sunday, february 28th on abc." hello, everyone. i'm kate bolduan. wolf blitzer is on assignment getting ready for the big debate. wherever you're watching from around the world, thank you for joining us. we want to start right now with the next round for republicans in the presidential race. it is caucus day in nevada, where the candidates are making their final pitch before the voters decide tonight. donald trump is angling for his third straight victory following big wins in south carolina and new hampshire. ted cruz and