tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN May 31, 2016 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT
for scrutinizing his fundraiser for veterans. you'll meet the new challenger coming for. you'll hear hillary clinton's campaign strategy and the court ordered release of the play book and that's the title of it, the play book for the staffers of now defunkt, trump university. we have that shortly. what the nation's best known zoo keeper and animal lover makes of this moment and what he says to so many people that want to know why the cincinnati zoo had to shoot this gorilla. after a boy fell into his enclosure. the presumptive republican nominee defending his fundraising efforts and hammering reporters with questions. >> i'm the only one in the world that could raise almost $6 million for the veterans have applause by the veterans groups and criticized by the press. i have to tell you, the press is so dishonest and so unfair. i will say that the press should be ashamed of themselves. i find the press to be extremely dishonest.
i find the political press to be unbelievably dishonest. >> you keep calling us the dishonest press. >> that's generally true. >> it seems as though you're resistant to scrutiny that comes with running for president of the united states. >> i like scrutiny but when i raised money -- excuse me. i've watched you on television. you're a real beauty. i had no choice but to do this because the press was saying i didn't raise any money. what i don't want is when i raise millions of dollars have people say like this sleazy guy over here from abc, because you know the facts and you know the facts well instead of being like thank you very much mr. trump or trump did a good job, everyone is saying who got it, who got it and you make me look very bad. i have never received such bad publicity for doing such a good job.
jim griffin, who has been working with -- was it great beauty. >> real beauty. >> drew, talk about donald trump lashing out at the media for questions questions about the fundraisers. you've gone through the names of a lot of these organizations, a lot of them legitimate and above board. what have you found. >> one thing that struck me about the news conference is he said he vetted all these groups and it took this long to release this information because it was a great job of vetting but then he said i didn't look at their federal tax returns. we did. we started looking at one in particular. it's called the foundation for american veterans. it's a veterans charity like many we've reported on with you on your show. it's a bad charity. it's being sued in the state of minnesota. this is a charity that has given
$27 million since 2010 to a private fundraiser and according to the attorney general has given 10% or so of donations to good causes. >> this is a group you've done a lot of reporting on and this is a problem we've seen time and time again. >> huge overhead, all the money goes to professional fundraisers. >> this fundraiser in the last filing gave millions to a professional fundraiser that's under investigation in minnesota for misleading donors. he told us his campaign vetted this group. nobody would have given money to them if they did a google search. >> any idea that the trump organization knew this? >> we've reached out and asked and we haven't gotten a question yet but that's how it goes with this campaign. we've been asking for information on all this fundraising since it began four months ago. >> jim, you were there at the press conference. the attack on the media, is
it -- it's certainly popular and plays well to a base. do you think it's part of a planned thing that donald trump does or is it heat of the moment. >> it's half emotional and half tactical. i spoke to a trump advisor that says when he goes after the press our supporters love it and nobody cares about you guys in the press. there's a lot of truth to that. but i think if you can't answer questions about money that you've raised for veterans groups and where that money has gone and how much money have you contributed and where does that money go, it raises the question can you take the heat of running for president of the united states and that was the thrust of my question and as you saw he didn't like the question. he doesn't like questions that make him uncomfortable and we see this all the time on the campaign trail but a lot of this is stuff that his crowds eat up. >> dana, it's interesting because donald trump has a long
relationship with the media. he has been talking about this campaign and prior to that whether under his name or other names that he would call in to reporters with allegedly but it clearly seems to be now that he's running for office there's a different level of scrutiny, a different type of reporter, a different type of attention and he doesn't seem to appreciate that. >> clearly. he doesn't appreciate it. that was very obvious during this press conference in watching kind of the way it unfolded as jim and other colleagues and competitors kind of joined forces to ask the same kind of questions, which is wait a minute, like this is what you're doing now. you are running for president of the united states and it is in some ways you can look at it isn't he biting the hand that feeds him in a way because he is donald trump, the brand, the
iconic figure, because he understands the media so well. in a way that nobody else comes close to understanding and has for decades. but understanding it as a marketer and as a entertainer which is what he was on the apprentice and as a businessman is a far different kind of approach, it's entirely different than what you're running for the highest office in the land and to be the leader of the free world. at the end of the day i said this earlier when drew griffin and other reporters tried to get the information about what he said out there as a promise and as a goal which is to raise money for veterans it is up to us in the press to get that information. if he's a businessman, if he's a private citizens, he doesn't have that responsibility. now we both have the responsibility, those of us in the press to ask the questions and he as a candidate for president to give the answers.
>> dana, how do you see it. >> i'm glad to see that the press is standing up to do its job. i think trump can be scrutinized. he's a politician. he's applying for the top job in the land so of course the press is to scrutinize the candidates. so should citizen journalists as well. one of the reasons we're seeing this reaction against the press is because for a little over eight years we've seen a press that has protected certain aspects of the beltway. we've seen a press that has protected this current administration. we've seen a press that has turned a blind eye to fast and furious and we saw them turn a blind eye to the affordable care act and people losing their insurance. we saw it with benghazi
everything being reported on like it's a non-story or made up. so people don't trust the press. the press hasa higher unfavorability rating than congress and that's for a reason. so the press has to earn back respect from people and i'm not surprised to see someone actually have this sort of interaction with the press. however on the other hand you have to expect when you are running for president and particularly if you are running for president as a republican the press is going to come after you and harder than the other side. >> do you think that trump looks thin skinned on this because i keep coming back to the idea that he has had relationships with reporters and close relationships with reporters going back decades. he's had probably more press attention going back decades but it is a completely different kind of attention than he's going to be getting now and i think he seems to bristle at it perhaps understandably. do you think that plays a role in this as well that he's not used to this sort of -- it's one thing for reporters to be covering you as a business
person but when you're running for president it is a different level of attention. >> right. i do agree with that. you can't be used to this level until you've actually gone through it and have experienced it but at the same time that we're talking about where the money went and i think these are good questions to ask. i'm not saying none of these questions are horrible questions to ask and i think it's smart to vet these charities before you start contributing funds but at the same time i would love to see turning over every single rock and looking and gathering all the facts, i would love to see this applied to every other aspect of washington, d.c. and the current administration which we haven't. so i think people need to understand they need to have this expectation that there's this relationship that the media has cultivated. >> i'm going to defer to jim acosta who has been covering
this administration who has a very different experience in covering this administration because they think that we're unfair to them and we hear it from democrats as well. the fact that hillary clinton is looking at this who is even though republicans maybe don't think she is she's been one of the most scrutinized people out there that goes to show where you stand depends on where you sit. >> jim. >> i have to say -- >> both sides are doing something wrong. if both sides are saying you're doing something wrong you must be doing something okay. >> drew and his team have been looking through documents that came out today in the class action lawsuit against trump university so-called. we'll see the guidelines that trump staffers got for giving perspective students the hard sale and donald trump's campaign firing back hard against the judge who released these documents. and later this horrible story how a child got into a
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get snapshot and see just how much your good driving could save you. we've been talking about donald trump went off reporters today and he went after a federal judge over the weekend. the judge said trump university failed to provide promises on a real estate education with instructors hand picked by trump. today on orders from the judge after a request from "the washington post" nearly 400 pages of material were made public including guidelines for a so-called trump team members for selling students. >> reporter: the sales team play book released is the first time
we've seen such a detailed account how trump university was able to sell $40 million in what is alleged to be a worthless real estate course. in these pages are details on scripted answers to tough questions like how much money will it cost. i'm glad you asked that question the script tells the salesperson to say. it takes money to make money. this is an invitation program. most students invited into the program use established lines of credit like a credit card. for people with no credit cards or have used up their limits, do you have any other capital or savings set aside to further invest into real estate projects. another document instructs staffers to collect personal information that you can utilize during closing time. are they a single parent of three children who need money for food. salespeople were told to use that personal information and tug on the emotions of potential clients and close the deal, preferably with a credit card swipe for up to $35,000.
>> had is thousands of people taken for millions of dollars. >> reporter: new york's attorney general is leading one of the three lawsuits against donald trump. the lawsuits all basically the same. >> there wasn't piece of his pitch that was actually true. >> reporter: he alleges it wasn't a university, its teachers didn't teach any donald trump secrets. >> those are all people that are hand picked by me. >> reporter: and no according to lawsuits none of the instructors were hand picked by donald trump. this man says he paid more than $26,000 for his trump real estate course. he says he learned nothing. he was constantly pressured to buy more. >> what are you talking about, more money and i'm not learning anything. >> reporter: you didn't learn anything in that class. >> no. >> donald trump was part of this school. obviously the name and school i'm using the term loosely here, the name of the university, the
sales pitch he made. did he have any face to face interaction with the students. >> no. it was such a big question for the students that they had a whole page designed to answer that question, am i ever going to meet donald trump. that's what the students want to learn and this was part of the standard reply obviously mr. trump can't meet with everyone nor does he want to so he's also created an insert program name based on lead in information here where we only invite a select group of people that have been hand picked by this program director and it goes on to say you, sir are the hand picked person we have chosen. >> did you have to pay extra to get in that program. >> yes. you would start with a three day program and 1495. that was three days of sales pitches. >> $1,495. >> yes. that was designed to get you up to the big five day seminar and if they were really good they'd get you in the five day seminar with a gold leaf program with a mentoring. their 34,895.
# >> i want to bring in a clinton supporter and former new york city council speaker and trump supporter jeffry lord and former new york republican congressman who ran against hillary clinton. i know you sort of poo poo'd this action against donald trump. do you still feel that way. >> yeah, of course i do. in looking up for example one of the law firms that's involved with this they paid bill and hillary clinton over $50,000,000 if not more in speech fees. this is a clear political conflict of interest. >> do you think trump university was an actual university? >> i think it was a university in the way that these kind of inspiring things if you will -- tony robins -- >> he doesn't call himself a university. >> no. i was not offended by the term university here. >> do you think people knew what they were getting into?
when donald trump says i hand picked these people -- >> i think you have an obligation as a customer to look into anything you do. >> do you have an obligation when you're running a company if you say you hand picked people to hand pick them. >> you get to a point where you're in business and you're selling. you're selling a product here. we do things all the time in the private sector and media and whatever elsewhere the thing you're selling is the best. >> when you go to columbia university they don't send you a video that says we've vetted our professors and it turns out they haven't vetted the professors -- >> if we're going to start vetting actual universities for the quality of their graduates -- >> trump who said -- trump who said he had personally selected these people, it's okay that he actually had not done that? >> i just don't see that as a big deal. >> isn't that a lie?
>> no. anderson, are we -- >> if i say i have vetted all the people working for me and i haven't -- >> if you say you want to keep your doctor is that a lie? >> you're deflecting. >> that's a lie. >> if you know for a fact you can't keep your doctor that is a lie. >> so all the stories about president obama lying -- >> you refuse to answer the question. did donald trump lie when he says i personally selected these people when it turned out he didn't? >> he in his mind thought he did. there's a lightening bolt that will come in. >> was it a lie. >> absolutely it was a lie. it was a lie as part of a sales pitch to get people in to spend more money to be -- to engage in this program that turned out to be a fraud which is why the case -- >> it doesn't matter. the primary vote -- didn't matter at all. primary voters had this information, they saw this and they voted for him and he's the candidate. >> it should matter.
i think what voters were exposed to was a limited amount of this information -- >> they had a lot of this information. >> you hear trump with this nonsense all the time that you never know what he's saying is true or not. we can't focus on more than one lie at a time. the point you made jeffry as you were trying hard to not admit it was a lie but you said he was selling a product. you do whatever it takes to sell a product. that's what he's doing right now with voters, saying whatever he needs to do to sell the product. his candidacy. people are going to get the same fraud that these people at trump university did and i feel bad for people like you that keep -- why do you guys keep supporting this when it's clear what's going on here. >> if that's the standard everybody has to get out of the presidential race. >> not everyone is flat out lying. >> rick, when donald trump says i can settle this if i want to but i'm not going to do it, i'm not a guy who settles lawsuits but voters seem to like that
idea about him that he's a fighter. >> it's always about donald trump the attitude as opposed to the substance underlying the issues and ideas. they are attracted i think many voters to the sense of being decisive and defiant and i'm not going to get rolled by the media or a judge or whomever it is. and i thought the attack on the judge was interesting in that you try to delegitimatize the person who could potentially put you in a box in an embarrassing situation. >> it is amazing because if there was another presidential candidate who was affiliated with a university that wasn't a university that had these lawsuits and these claims it would have done in just about anybody else but it's a testament to donald trump and his level of support and the belief people have in him that this is basically done nothing. >> it would have because people are supporting him not because
of trump university or anything else. # they're supporting him because they believe that donald trump can change the country and the world. if he was a normal presidential candidate he would say i welcome this scrutiny on trump university because this judge will find that trump university was totally on the up and up and that our students were well educated, that they got what they paid for and defend trump university. >> which by the way he has a number of these students according to trump signed things saying that they liked trump. >> under pressure. he uses that all the time but people who have been -- who testified in the depositions said that the instructors would stand over them and pressure them to write it. >> i'm trying to bring up how trump is defending this. >> but instead he is attacking the ethnicity of a judge -- >> he's questioning it. >> he's questioning it. okay.
>> he's saying that he's mexican which i don't know of mexican citizens -- >> right. so he takes a different line which is to punch, punch, punch rather than say you know what i'm a presidential candidate, i'm going to be scrutinized like any other presidential candidate and if i'm going to attack hillary clinton has been crooked hillary. >> you're a supporter of clinton. look, hillary clinton can bring this up but it hasn't had an impact so far on donald trump. >> it hasn't had an impact in the republican primary and i think the general election is a completely different playing field and i think there we are talking to independents, talking to a broader swath of the republican party to all the democratic party. i think these type of issues are going to have a very, very different impact because what you said was buyer beware. you're the dope that bought this thing that donald trump ripped you off on and i think voters --
>> i didn't have sex with that woman. >> the voters don't want to have a buyer beware situation with the president of the united states and the more conversation there is about donald trump in the general election playing field the more people are going to question. >> it won't go to trial until after the election. >> he's going to kick this down the field so that people don't have to think or talk about this. like jeff is doing he's throwing up more smoke. he's mexican. the prosecutors donate to clinton, all these things that have nothing to do with it. >> they do. a political conflicts of interest. >> let's say there is one, there is a vast political attack. it doesn't negate the fact that donald trump is lying. this was a fraudulent project. # >> didn't these lawsuits exist before the election, before donald trump -- well in advance. >> wait, wait, wait. the lawsuits that the judge said that these law firms could handle came after donald trump was in the press --
>> people were suing before he was running for president. they didn't have a crystal ball to anticipate he was going to run for president. they didn't like the product. >> you guys are talking in political terms but this is a this is not political to the fellow that i introduced you to. that man served in the navy for 40 years. when he signed up for this course he believed in donald trump. he thought donald trump was going to help him become not a billionaire but maybe a couple of thousandaire. his wife swiped their target card so they could fulfill the payment on this. there are hundreds and hundreds of people who have come forward to say look i believed in this guy and he defrauded me. they didn't learn anything. there were no hand picked experts. there was no education taught. you can say all the things you
want about the law firm is politically connected -- >> that's a big deal. >> it's going to be based on facts. the facts are what he pitched and what he delivered. >> these law firms have no -- >> let jeffry finish and then we have to move. let's take a break. we have more. the clinton campaign shifting its strategy and borrowing some tactics from donald trump. he's not the only one flooding the zone. we'll see if it has the same kind of effect for hillary clinton. as it has for donald trump. plus a freak and fatal encounter, a small child ending up in the clutches of a gorilla. the boy survived and the gorilla was killed. a bitter debate. # did the zoo do the right thing? how about the boy's mother. all the details ahead.
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democratic delegates, obviously the biggest prize. today the governor jerry brown endorsed hillary clinton urging voters who don't want to see a trump presidency to stop the infighting and rally behind the front-runner. polls have shown her in a tight race with bernie sanders. she appears to be shifting her strategy when it comes to her other rival in what could be the bigger battle ahead. >> as i say crooked hillary, lying ted, little marco. >> reporter: unpredictable. unfiltered. >> i like people that weren't captured. he's a war hero because he was captured. >> reporter: and unapologetic. hillary clinton is facing the definition of an unconventional candidate. >> i would say she started screaming at the teleprompter but i'm not allowed to say that. you know why? now if she was a man i could say
it, but as a woman -- >> reporter: donald trump forcing the clinton campaign to rethink and rewrite the play book. the new strategy the question whether the billionaire has the right temperament to be president. >> what a loser. >> reporter: one recent poll shows 70% of voters don't think he does. >> donald trump is an unqualified loose cannon who cannot get near the most powerful job in the world. it's up to us to say no. >> reporter: team clinton is trying to take down trump by zeroing in on individual issues with simultaneous coordinated attacks. today was trump's veterans event and last week it was trump's past business practices unloading not just on the campaign trail. >> why on earth would we elect somebody president who actually rooted for the collapse of the mortgage market. >> reporter: by making clinton more readily available for interviews, stealing a page out
of trump's play book, calling into tv programs including today with cnn's jake tapper. >> he bragged about raising $6 million for veterans and donating it a million himself. but it took reporter to shame him into actually making his contribution. >> reporter: doubling down on those attacks through social media. >> if there is a bubble burst as they call it, you know you can make a lot of money. >> reporter: with an army of campaign surrogates, fanning out in battle ground states and on conference calls with reporters. >> donald trump has never spent one minute of the kind of service that senator mccain has served for his country. so for him to disparage that service is despicable and disgraceful. >> reporter: all this amounting to an aggressive and coordinated operation meant to flood the zone on one target topic alone and not see if the news cycle or any ground to donald trump.
cnn washington. >> the question is will that work. joining me is david axlerod. these more aggressive highly coordinated attacks from the clinton campaign how effective do you think they will be on a candidate who is reactive as donald trump is? >> it's an interesting question. it's like you're used to preparing to play the new york giants and now you have an alien invader from mars. i think he has been very resistant to these attacks and at the end of the day i don't think the substance of the attacks are what ultimately are going to be problematic for trump, it's the way he reacts to them. what he's proving to be is very reactive and his press conference today proved that. his issue is going to be
temperament. so by provoking him with these attacks they may achieve something larger than the attack themselves. >> explain that. so you mean go after him on his temperament or try to provoke something. >> i think his temperament is exposing itself. i said a long time ago, i think presidential campaigns are mris for the soul. the pressure increases the higher you go and he's feeling some of that and you see him attacking those who he feels are attacking him. it isn't playing well right now. so some of it will expose itself but i think the question in this race may come down to some solidity and experience versus the impulsive nature of donald trump. that i think is where they're ultimately going to land.
>> we've seen secretary clinton going after trump for his business record and in their opinion being out of touch with average americans. that strategy was effective against mitt romney and you helped orchestrate that strategy. romney was different. he was a more conventional candidate but less of a known quantity than donald trump. >> yeah. i don't know how successful those attacks will be. i do think there are lots of elements of his business record that are unknown to people. his image as a businessman was largely cultivated on his television show where scripts were written and he was the successful businessman and some of the stories that are coming out paint a different picture. it may have some effect but i think the larger effect will be to arouse him to these kinds of outbursts that we've seen and that may be the most damaging of all. >> i want to ask you about this new poll out today putting donald trump four points secretary clinton, in new jersey
granted clinton isn't the presumptive nominee yet but it has to be disconcerting for the clinton campaign that donald trump talks about turning traditionally states. like new jersey, red. >> she should be concerned about some of these early polls not just in new jersey but other states. i would caution you looking at polls five months out in a race as volatile as this is like manac. i take it with a grain of salt. you look at the poll and it's clear she hasn't yet consolidated some of the democratic constituencies that i think she will once the democratic nomination is sewn up. i would look more closely at these polls come to the fall when we're closer to the election and the primary campaign is behind her. ahead in a pivotal swing
state a trump super pac is targeting the amish. are they tilting in wind mills or could that pay off. a 3-year-old boy in the clutches of a silverback gorilla. officials shot the gorilla to save the child, how it happened and the controversy it's created. something else might be? gynecologic cancers - cervical, ovarian and uterine cancers - have symptoms. so pay attention. if your body says something may be wrong.... please listen if it goes on for two weeks, see a doctor, it may be nothing eye
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ohio has a long history as a swing state. days ago a federal court reinstated federal law allowing seven days of early voting. it's called the golden week and lawmakers struck it down. no republican has ever won the white house without winning ohio so that and a trump super pac is targeting an unlikely group of voters. gary tuckman takes a look. >> reporter: before the sun has risen, amish country is active but not politically active.
do you vote in presidential elections. >> no. >> reporter: are you going to be voting in the presidential election. >> no, i am not. >> this is holmes county. ohio. no county has a higher percentage of amish. more than half of the people that live here are part of that deeply conservative and old world traditional community and almost all will tell you they consider it against their faith to vote in a presidential election. >> we could do more by praying. >> reporter: that's not stopping amish pac to raise money in key states like ohio and pennsylvania to put donald trump in the white house. adam mast is an amish minister. do you watch tv. >> i don't. >> reporter: go on the computer. >> i don't. >> reporter: read the newspapers. >> once in a while. >> reporter: do you know who donald trump is. >> i know he's a billionaire running for president. >> reporter: do you know anything else about him. >> not really.
idea. >> reporter: what do you know about donald trump. >> actually i don't know anything about him. >> reporter: just his name. >> yeah, just his name. >> we don't want to go to war but we don't think we should be voting for the president either. >> reporter: i hitched a ride in this buggy and told him this political action is planning on coming here this summer. do you think it would work here. >> i don't think it would have much effect. >> reporter: this flower and produce auction brings out a mixture of the amish and english. the term used for nonamish. # some of the amish here have heard trump has made a few controversial comments. one thing he said is that muslim should not be allowed for the time being to come into the united states and then he sort of took it back later. what do you think about that?
>> well, i think we all have the right to be here, don't we. >> he's slams people. i can't imagine these government guys slamming each other like they do. it's not our way of doing business. >> reporter: the amish political action committee has hurdles to overcome. the amish are modest people. donald trump not so modest. but among the amish faithful there is some intrigue about trump. >> i think that perhaps god is using him to shake things up. things have to get worse before they get better and we are living in end times. it's so fascinating to hear from the amish folks you interviewed. what did they say about hillary clinton? >> reporter: every amish person i talked to knows the name
hillary clinton, knows she's running for president and knows her husband was a president but they don't know much about her positions. we asked about bernie sanders and most of the amish we talked with know the name bernie sanders and they don't know how he's involved in this. we should mention most amish people do not want to talk on camera. we wanted to be sensitive about that so we talked to a lot of people off camera. >> i was going to ask you how did you get so many folks to talk but you have an amazing ability to talk with your heart in a good place. people know that. just ahead a story that has made headlines around the world, a 3-year-old boy got into a gorilla enclosure. there's outcry over the fact that the zoo officials shot and
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said it's investigating the actions of the family but not the zoo. let's look at the incident itself. crouched in the corner of this enclosure is a 450 pound male gorilla hiding a 3-year-old child who got into the gorilla habitat. horrified visitors watched from above. the mother calls out to her baby. the gorilla is seemingly agitated perhaps by the noise of the crowd says witnesses. >> oh my gosh! >> everybody back up. >> he holds on to the little boy and at one point he takes his arm and holds the back of the boy's pants and then he drawings the boy through the water again further away from the crowds.
it's clear to zoo officials he is not letting go of the child and after ten agonizing minutes they decide to shoot and kill him. the boy is in between the gorilla's legs when he's taken down. zoo officials say there was no other choice. >> the gorilla was clearly agitated and disoriented so the idea of waiting was not a good idea. >> the little boy was not seriously injured but how did he end up inside a protected enclosure. an eyewitness says the mother was districted by other children with her. >> the little boy had been talking about wanting to go in. >> >> this man took care of the
gorilla when he was born. >> he was in a situation where there's this strange thing here that i don't know -- what do i do? and do i fight it? do i love it? do i run from it? what do i do? and an unforeseen circumstance was born and he had to lose. >> jack hanna is probably the most famous zoo keeper out there and knows about all kind of animals. he's the director of the columbus zoo. thanks for being with us under these really impossible circumstances. i guess the question is how do you see it? did the zoo do the right thing in shooting the gorilla? >> i have to say they did the right thing only because at the columbus zoo we have the first gorilla ever born here i've been with them for almost 38 years you have a situation where this is a male silverback gorilla and a child that drops in the moat i didn't get concerned until the animal jerked him through the water like that. knowing what i've seen when
they're upset like that the animal is upset. i couldn't say that if i wasn't familiar with them. at that point is everybody is screaming. the family goes inside the building. all of them take off. here he is with this thing who is screaming like that, fighting back, not like the other children rescued by the gorillas. who knows what would have happened when you sit there and you have a choice if you're a father or grandfather and you're child is in there, a 450 pound gorilla has your child there's no other choice. i will say i bet my life that child would not be here today if they hadn't done what they did. >> when you dart a gorilla how long does it take for the drug to take effect? >> that's a great question. it takes five to ten minutes.
so what happens if the young boy started fighting back that's what concerned me. if the little boy gets nervous and starts going like this we both know what the gorilla is going to do. it would have been something we don't want to talk about right now. >> there have been other cases in the uk and in chicago kids gorrillas and they were protected but in those kids the kids were unconscious or asleep. >> correct. both kids were unconscious. the one in chicago, that child fell in there. that gorilla was hand raised here. so that gorilla knew people. the silverback by the way that child is unconscious so you can see why both instances worked.
>> i've had silverbacks charge at me up in rwanda and they often veer off at the last minute but when you see them up close like that you get a sense of how strong they are and how quick they can move and it really is unpredictable what they're going to do and on top of that it's unpredictable what this child is going to do. >> you're the first one day after 28 interviews that i've talked that has seen the gorillas and can say that they sat there and saw the gorillas. i've been charged several times. you don't know what to do. >> it's paralyzing. >> it's like something out of sight. the power of those animals is immeasurable. >> with a mountain gorilla but
any gorilla if you look them in the eye directly it's a hostile act so looking them in the eye that boy started doing that and screaming while looking at the gorilla there's no telling what could have happened. >> some people i've had today laughed and said i've heard you look in their eyes and they don't do anything. you don't look in their eyes. the guys in charge over there say don't do it. i'm like a child. i did try it once and then that gorilla goes like this and puffs up and i go like this. i tried to look away so fast i couldn't stand it. it's beyond a massive animal. it's an animal that's gorgeous. this is a loss. >> it's horrific. there's no way around it. it's a no win situation. i appreciate you being on. thank you. >> thank you.
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