tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN July 11, 2016 11:00am-1:01pm PDT
hello, everyone. i'm don lemon. this is cnn's special live coverage of the ambush in dallas. at any moment, surgeons, doctors, first responders are going to speak for the first time since that horrific night in their city. we're going to bring that to you live. you see them there, setting up for that press conference there in dallas. but first, an exhausted police chief taking questions from reporters and revealing more about the man who sprawled cryptic messages in blood after shooting 12 police officers, killing five. chief david brown also saying he and his family got death threats
after his department used explosives to take out the sniper, micah xavier johnson. here he was just a short time ago. >> there was a large stockpile, one of the bomb techs called me at home to describe his concern of how large a stockpile of bomb-making materials he had. according to that bomb tech, he knew what he was doing, that this wasn't some novice. so what's on his laptop, how did he learn that? we don't think he learned it in the military. we don't have any evidence of that. you can learn all that online, i guess. i don't know whether or not he planned to escape and then the. bombing would start, or he didn't have time to complete. we just don't know how the bombing aspect of his plans were going to play out. we're looking for those answers.
and the concern is that we haven't found something that's out there. that's the concern. we don't know that that's reality. but we're asking the question and trying to find leads to see if there's any answers to that. the dallas police department working with the federal bureau of investigations, we're working also with our law enforcement partners in the area to determine the meaning of the initials, "r.b." that were scribed on the walls there in two locations inside. >> as we mentioned, those mysterious initials you just heard the police chief referred to were scrawled in blood where the shooter had holed up before his death. also today, the dead shooter's father, mother, and stepmother are openly expressing their own shock and heartbreak and what they think may have caused him to snap. i'm joined now by cnn's victor blackwell, he has been covering this story for us from dallas. there he is. before we get to the parents, that interview, what else did
the police chief reveal and what are you learning about the weaponry used in this ambush? >> reporter: let's start with the weaponry. we're learning from a law enforcement source who has knowledge about the investigation about, first, that semiautomatic rifle, the semiautomatic assault style rifle. a 545 caliber, which is a variation of the ak, that was the weapon that he used to injure so many people on thursday night. also, a glock 19, generation 4 pistol, and a frazier handgun. those were found on or near his body there. we also know from this law enforcement source that he was wearing a bulletproof vest. but let me take you to the house where investigators found more information. evidence of additional weapons purchases, gun boxes, receipts, for cobra, larsen, glock handguns. this may sound like an arsenal. but let's be frank, here, this
number of guns would not be remarkable except for the context in which all this was discovered. specifically about the cobra and the lureson. i spoke with a police officer who also is a weapons expert. he says those are very cheap. about $50 each. so this source also says that these are inexpensive throwaway weapons, but you heard the chief there talk about the bomb making materials found at the home. >> and victor, the dallas shooter's parents gave an exclusive interview to the blaze, revealing what they say changed him. what was it? >> you know, we talked about his military record, that he served in afghanistan. but we learned from his parents that he seemed to be quite disillusioned by that military service. listen to a portion of the interview here with the shooter's mother. >> the military was not what micah thought it would be. >> it disappointed him. >> he was very disappointed.
very disappointed. but it may be that he -- the ideal that he thought of our government, of what he thought the military represented. it just didn't live up to his expectation. >> reporter: so investigators will, of course, be looking to that information as they continue to dig through forensically that laptop that was found at his home, to find out exactly how he was radicalized and where he acquired the training. >> victor blackwell. thank you very much for that. appreciate it. it may be the most meaningful plea yet in all of this, protesters of the black lives matter movement, not just to stay peaceful, but much more than that. it came minutes ago from the dallas police chief. >> become a part of solution. serve your community. don't be a part of the problem. we're hiring. we're hiring.
get out on that protest line and put an application in. we'll put you in your neighborhood. and we will help you resolve some of the problems you're protesting about. >> so let's discuss that now with founding member and organizer of black lives matter, melina della, and steve rogers, a retired detective sergeant from new jersey and a former member of the joint terrorism task force. thank you so much for joining us, both of you. melina, what do you think of the chief's idea? would black lives matter consider taking on jobs, serving for police departments as part of your mission? >> absolutely not. what we are about is the transformation of the system of policing. we believe that the system of policing is set up and structured to create the outcomes that it does, to create a system where black people are killed at least every 28 hours
by law enforcement, where black men like alton sterling and philando castile were murdered in the span of one week, four black men killed by police in a span of one weekend. that's what we know of. so we're looking to transform policing and public safety. >> you don't think you can do that -- you don't think you'd have a good chance of doing that from the inside, as the chief said? >> absolutely not. the system is built to sustain itself. the system is fundamentally flawed. so i'm also a professor of pan-african studies who studied the history of policing and understands that the system of policing that we have in los angeles and throughout this country is rooted in slave catching. it has its foundations in slave catching. and so to reform a system of slave catchers, to reform a
system of paddy rollers is impossible. what we need to do is completely rethink, re-imagine, redefine what public safety means to us, and pour resources into communities, rather than try and join a force that's meant to oppress and repress us. >> i want to bring steve in here and get your opinion. what do you think of chief brown's idea? do you foresee any problems with hiring protesters as police officers? >> the man is a hero. he's a role model for people of all ethnicities. what he has suggested is already working across this country. police officers from alleth necessities, and a lot of black police officers are working closely through community policing in their neighborhoods and creating good relationships with the people. and let me add this, don. there was a voice all over the media, all over the media this morning, the voice of that mom, that heroic mom weeping about how police officers saved her life and the life of her children. i think, don, she did more for good relationships between
police and the people than anybody we've heard on the air recently. it's regrettable that your guest here takes that position, because we need to work together. we need to respect the police. i agree. if there's bad cops, they should be off the force. and they should be off the force forthwith. but to put a wall up and say that a chief of police, who by the way we know is african-american, is making a suggestion to heal wounds, we all need to jump onboard. >> melina, it does sound interesting that you're saying you wouldn't want to be part of that system, but you're trying to change the system. and again, working on the inside, does it sound like a job in policing is beneath someone who is a black lives matter in the movement? >> no, that's not absolutely not what i said. what i did say is our focus is on the system of policing. this is a fundamentally flawed system. we know that every major study has demonstrated that what we need in terms of public safety is community resources.
we need livable wage jobs. we need afterschool programs. we need prevention and intervention work. we need all of these things. >> but that can't happen as someone as a police officer -- let me jump in here. >> well, we want -- >> someone who's a police officer can't do that? >> we want to shift things away from a city that spends 54% -- >> okay, hang on. >> of its resources. >> will you let me please jump in. i want to finish asking you a question. so if someone is a police officer -- let's not say everyone in black lives matter doesn't have to be a police officer. obviously not. but members of black lives matter could never take a job as a police officer because if you're a police officer, then you may be able to work with the community and go to the black community and do things differently than police officers are doing now. that would be a great way to help change the interaction between police officers in the community, no? >> so, maybe that's something that you think is a great way, don lemon, and, you know, you have your -- >> no, i'm asking you. >> we believe in transforming,
so i've stated, we believe in the transformation. we don't want to be incorporated into the system of policing that's fundamentally oppressive. we want to transform things. we want to be community resources for folks. we want to be mental health providers and after school program providers, youth workers. we want to do that kind of work. we want to be the kind of workers -- >> and a police officer. >> to that point, don, police officers are doing it. >> in the school. >> they're in the churches, they're in the schools. >> police officers are not mental health professionals. police officers are not -- >> one at a time, please. >> police officers are police. >> but they are -- if you listen to the chief today -- >> we don't ask that teachers to be a police officer. a teacher is a noble profession. >> it's a resource. the greatest resource we have -- >> hangen on, both of you. when you're doing all the
talking, you're not listening and you don't learn anything. so, again, one at a time. the police chief said today that officers are being asked to be all of these resource officers, counselors, they're asked to be judge and jury. that we are asking police officers to do too many things in society. so, what is the problem with someone becoming a police officer and helping the community out and reforming -- i don't understand what's wrong with reforming the system from the inside. that's sometimes the best way. >> why would we want police to be teachers? teachers should be teachers. >> they're already doing it. >> youth workers -- so they shouldn't. and that's the point. the point is that those resources should go to the best systems. so if we want teachers, hire teachers. don't hire police officers to be teachers. if we want youth workers, hire youth workers. don't hire police officers to be youth workers. >> i want to continue this conversation, but i can't right now. i have to go to a press conference, a news conference happening in dallas with the emergency workers who showed up. here it is. >> i'd like to say thank you to
the dallas police department for everything they do, keeping us safe every single day. and maici my condo lons s -- condolences to the families who have lost. >> i'm also the chief of surgery here at parkland. >> my name is brian williams. i'm the associate professor at surgery for u.t. south western. i was in charge the night the dallas officers came into the trauma center here. >> i'm alex eastman. i'm the medical director chief of the trauma center here at parkland and assistant professor at u.t. south western medical center also. i'm lieutenant deputy chief medical officer of the dallas police department. >> i'm dan burbank. >> so i'd like to open up with a statement. first off, i'd like to thank the
police officers of this fine city, both dallas police department and dart for the service they give and the care they render every day as well as the evening thursday night. i'd also like to give my condolences, and behalf of parkland, the condolences to the families, friends, and the other police officers who are reeling from this tragedy and the deaths of their loved ones. i'd like to thank our parkland family, including all the doctors who were here. the nurses who helped care for patients. all the support staff and administration and throughout the hospital as well as our own police department who helped us stay safe that night. i'd like to note that during that evening, they were already almost 300 people in the emergency room at the time that this event started.
and over the course of the four or five hours, while it was all happening, another 134 patients came through the emergency room doors. it's a testament to this hospital and the people who served this community at this hospital for the care that they delivered to all those in the setting of this tragedy. i'd like to thank the health care community nationally. we received an outpouring of support from across the country of many, many health care systems, too many to name and we're thankful for the support that they've given us. the health care community at a time like this also comes together. the way a community does. the police community did. and we as a community also are
supporting each other through this difficult time. with that, i'd like to open up to any of my other colleagues who might like to give a comment. >> again, i'm brian williams. i want to state first and foremost i stand with the dallas police department. i stand with law enforcement all over this country. this experience has been very personal for me. and a turning point in my life. there is the added dynamic of officers being shot. we routinely care for multiple gunshot victims. but the preceding days of more black men dying at the hands of police officers affected me. i think the reasons are obvious.
i fit that demographic of individuals. but i abhor what has been done to these officers and i grieve with their families. i understand the anger and the frustration and distrust of law enforcement. but they are not the problem. the problem is the lack of open discussions about the impact of race relations in this country. and i think about it every day. that i was unable to save those cops when they came here that night. it weighs on my mind constantly. this killing, it has to stop. black men dying and being
forgotten, people retaliating against the people that are sworn to defend us, we have to come together and end all this. >> i'd like to open it up for questions. >> can you describe the scene of the emergency room that night. as you mentioned, 300 people, and another 134, and all of this happening. >> the trauma center is a self-contained area within the entire emergency department. that scene was pretty well controlled. and again, i said it's routine for us to care for multiple trauma victims at the same time. so it was business as usual for us. we did have to flex with our personnel resources to accommodate the additional people that were coming in. but the remainder, i can't
comment on that. they do their job. and did it effectively. >> if i could respond to that. so there were 17 trauma patients, trauma activations that came through the trauma center from 7:00 p.m. that night to 7:00 a.m. obviously, seven of those were there the police department. three came by ambulance. the rest came by private vehicle. three came by private vehicle and the others came by ambulance. so when we know that we have a patient coming in, we stand up and we prepare, and we have the trauma team fully activated. the first patient that arrived, arrived in a private car in very critical condition. >> police car. not private car. >> and when that patient arrived, the trauma team stood up, full activation, and shortly behind that became another patient. dr. williams, dr. minei, trauma surgeons that were in charge that night.
the trauma nurses were standing behind you, did their jobs, as normally do. the difficulty in that situation is we were also accepting other trauma patients as they came in. patients who were critical, we referred to those to our faculty to accept those patients. there were about 15 people that respond to that room, including the trauma faculty, the trauma nurses, radiology, and a whole group of individuals that are very dedicated in trauma care. it was very evident that night. those patients were our number one priority. >> you said you treated seven police officers that night? >> yes, sir. >> civilians -- >> we had no civilians come through as related to the shootings.
>> doctor, can you talk about the stress following the days of the shooting within the police department or for officers in general? >> sure. i think we have been as a department incredibly busy in the days since thursday night. we -- i don't think any of us, i know none of us in the swat unit have had time to decompress and process yet, because our operational assignments have continued to keep the city safe. and to respond to a number of things that have occurred since thursday night. i think the chief said it best this morning. we're hurting. we're all hurting. i think this has rocked some guys to their core who i thought were unshakable. and if you asked me last year at
this time would i ever thought i'd see us shaken like this after the headquarters attack, many of us thought that that was the incident of our careers. and this makes that pale in comparison. so part of my job, i have operational responsibilities in the swat unit, but part of my job in the department overall is to make sure that every one of our 3,700 or so officers gets exactly what they need in the aftermath of something like this. i just can't thank the community enough for their support. what's come to our substations and headquarters and here at the hospital has been nothing short of remarkable. and to the guys sitting next to me here, no words can describe
how i feel about them, this place, what it was like that night. i came here as soon as i wrapped things up on the scene. i came straight here to make sure that my partners and friends were okay. and i found anything but when i got here. and i think one of the things, like the police department, the trauma center here is a family. and we look after each other and take care of one another, and we're never better than when we're challenged together. and i can't ever imagine facing something worse than this again. but if we have to, i'll be very glad to have the men and women of this -- the best trauma center in the country to stand with me.
>> have you all been able -- you know, the chief today mentioned the need for counselling. perhaps even mandatory counselling. has that part of anything that's already been placed, or is that something completely new? how does that work? >> i'm going to refer you back to the police department. we have a robust psychological services section that helps us deal with post-incident trauma. chief brown has been a national leader in crafting post-critical incident stress management programs. we've actually presented on this topic together at the international association of chiefs of police meeting last year with our posse, but i'm going to let the department handle the specifics of those. >> when the initial calls came in, did anyone think what happened in orlando a few weeks ago, and was there concern that
perhaps it could be that kind of magnitude? >> often when you get these initial calls, the communications and information is often scant or sketchy or really not reliable. so we have a protocol here that we gear up, you know, expecting the worst, hoping for the best, that we have minimal to no casualties. but as they come through the door, we geared up to our maximum capacity. in fact, we had more surgeons here than we had those that were injured. >> did everybody go back to work the next day? was there any sort of time to sort of process any of the ordeal, or just go back to running the hospital? >> so, i'll take that first. i mean, we have been constantly on the go as the dallas police
department swat team since. the incident was thursday into friday. we had more on saturday. i missed my son's birthday party on saturday, because duty called. and i don't think any of us really have had a chance to stop yet. in fact, i'm the trauma surgeon on call for us right now. so i think we will have time. but one of the things that i know is right now, there are people here that need our help. this city needs us to keep pressing forward. and i think what brian said is exactly right. this is a time for all of us to come together. because the path forward from here doesn't involve focusing on how different we are. the path forward involves the fact that when we have to do what we do, and when you look down on someone who is exploring in the operating room, we all
look the same on the inside. there's no difference. and so we've got to move forward. >> as health care experts, you all are moving forward. but at the same time, you're all healing and grieving. and so how do you afford everyone topnotch care while caring for yourself first? mental self-care. you know trauma. you see it every day. but perhaps this is different? >> i appreciate that concern, how we're doing. for me, this is one of the most difficult times in my life. but i recognize that no matter what i'm going through right now, compared to the families of the officers, and the victims that were killed this last week, it's nothing. yes, i want some time off, i've
been going nonstop since thursday night. but those families have lost people very important to them. the officers, the victims in baton rouge, and minneapolis -- minnesota, i'm sorry. so it's hard for me to complain about my life right now in comparison to theirs. >> i guess my question wasn't so much geared toward complaint, but more of really taking care of yourself mentally. even if as a team of surgeons. >> i think -- i think that we pride ourselves on the fact that we're a family. we talk amongst ourselves frequently. and a bigger component of that is belonging to parkland. the nurses, the other providers have had such an outpouring of support, and offering hey, i was
on call, i was the trauma surgeon on call on saturday. and everyone that i met said hey, great job, tough job, anything i can do to help you. and so i think as us, it helps to have -- to be able to confide with our partners and talk things over and discuss what we went through and how things ran and how they went smoothly, and that helps us. throughout our training, we learn to compartmentalize. this is very difficult to compartmentalize. i think you can see that all of us are showing signs that we're not doing a great job of that. but beyond that, we have everyone in this entire building has got our back. and that means a lot. and so knowing that we still have things to do and have to move forward, i think time is only going to make this better. it's like losing a best friend. it's going to take time to get over it. part of getting over it, though, is moving forward with what we
have to do on a day-to-day basis. i take a lot -- i got a lot of recovery on saturday, taking care of all the trauma patients in the emergency general surgery patients, it kind of gave me an opportunity to focus on the things that i do well and not necessarily have to think about the families that are missing people and the other people in the police department that have lost colleagues and friends as well. so that has given me an opportunity to move forward. alex, unfortunately, hasn't had that chance. brian, maybe today, like me is getting time off from some of the responsibilities. but that's i think how we do it. and every corner i go around, i see somebody smiling at me, offering to shake my hand. and i like to think that not only are we a family, our division, but parkland as a whole is one bigger family and i'm very thankful for that.
>> and i've also been leaning on my wife quite a bit during this time. she's been incredible. >> i'm not leaning on his wife. but our spouses. our special people. they recognize -- maybe alex's wife is even more special, because he, like, five jobs. but they know and they've come along with us to get to where we are. they've grown with us. and if they weren't a huge support for us, we couldn't do the jobs that we have. and so, again, yeah. >> when i got here on friday morning, early, it was probably, i don't know, 3:00 in the morning, 3:30. i was pretty ragged out from what we had just been through downtown. and -- but i had had to come here and see for how the family was doing on this end. and the first group of people i bumped into were some of our
trauma nurses who are standing in the back. and i could tell that they were relieved that i was okay. but i also was relieved that they were okay. and we do have a lot of healing to do. but the one thing i know is that when times are tough, we do it together. i think we've all talked, hugged, loved each other over the last few days. and for me, where i haven't had a real chance to sit down and compose my thoughts. nearly everyone in this room that's not behind the camera called me texted me, checked on me, made sure i was okay. brought their families to the house. brought their families to the house, whatever i needed. i think that's what this place is all about. and will always be about, no matter what you've heard, read, through our ups and downs.
the one thing that's been a constant here at parkland is that we pride ourselves on doing whatever, whenever. doesn't matter. we just take care of the patients who present that need us. and i think over the last few days, some of us have needed each other more than ever. and i'm proud to say that i can count on the people up here and across the board to do that. >> can you guess how many care givers were there in the trauma center at the height of when everything was going on? and did anyone come to work voluntarily when they heard what was going on? >> there were surgeons who were in the hospital at the time completing their duties, who did not have a responsibility in the trauma center who came down to help.
i came in. we had an army of surgical residents as well here. a number of nurses i don't even think i could count. there were more than enough people to care for the seven people that came through the door. i couldn't even count how many it was. >> we had the seven police officers, but there were still other traumas coming in during that time. >> if i could just comment, too, parkland has had many experiences in disaster response. so our disaster medical director, so this trauma center is very capable of staying on top of any kind of disaster. we have exercised it and planned it, we've done it, we've responded and asked ourselves what did work, what didn't work, we revisit that, and we retrain
ourselves. so this experience and our response is a perfect example of that training and how we look at ourselves very critically and asked what needs to be changed. we activated what we call a code yellow level 3 minor response, which means that everybody in the house responds. we don't typically reach out for a lot of other resources to come in from the outside and we manage this. and, again, the trauma nurses that work with me were on spot. they knew exactly what to do. we create small teams. every patient got the very best of care, whether they were from the shooting or whether they were in a motor vehicle crash that was transferred. after the event, we evaluate what worked, what didn't work. we're already doing that process. we work today. we had a short debriefing of the event. and we asked, what do we need to do different for the next one? and we're already looking at changes for that.
>> what type of changes? >> our changes are almost always communication-related. so in this particular event, there were a lot of people who, as you heard, do i come back, do i not come back? we have some new staff members. they had worked with us in a previous event. so we have addressed that, a code yellow level 3. you don't come back to this hospital unless you're called. >> we had heard at one point during the evening the hospital said no more trauma, we can't take any more trauma. is that -- i'm not sure if you can confirm that or not. >> it's not true for this facility. in fact, on the private transfer, we sent them to our medical directors. i think dr. williams actually screened the calls, whether or not they needed to come to this facility or not. but we did not stop care at all. >> so, i was still receiving calls requesting transfer for patients and our adt representative, which transfers came to me and asked should we stop accepting transfers.
and my response to her was no, we're parkland, we don't shut down. >> i will add to that. as a trauma medical director, we track this here. and i can tell you in the last three years, we have not spent one minute on trauma divert here. we have been open continuously through everything that has struck this community over the last three years, whether it was ebola, shootings, mass casualty incidents, flooding, chaos, mayhem, whatever has been here, the doors don't close here. and we take that very seriously in our role as the safety net hospital in this community. and as the flagship level 1 trauma center, to make sure that we're always available. >> can you talk at all about the nature, without specifics, of course, but the nature of any of
the types of situations you were faced with? >> the providers cannot give that information. >> captain, we'd love to hear from you on what that night was like. >> well, it was extremely trauma. when i first was at home getting ready to lay down for the evening, i was watching the news like most people were to see what was happening downtown, listening to the radio, and heard the shots on tv. i told my wife that i needed to go. and of course, she tried to talk me out of it. i live just a few minutes from here. i pulled up about the same time we started receiving patients. as the night wore on, it became evident how bad this incident had occurred. there was a question asked about staff and were they willing to come in. this happened just before our shift change.
and so we were fortunate in that that we had two shifts of officers here, but the officers that had already put their time in wouldn't leave. our main objective was to make sure that this facility was safe. that we had received unconfirmed reports of multiple shooters. we didn't know if we would receive one of the shooters. so we stood up. and we handled what we had to handle. we kept everybody safe. i think it was after it was all over with and i got home that it really hit. but the support from the parkland family has been overwhelming. the e-mails, the food, and everything that our department has received has just been spiritually uplifting for us. so that's pretty much what we were dealing with. >> i think this is going to stay
with you for the rest of your life? >> i've been in law enforcement over 20 years, and this is the worst thing i've ever seen. and we see a lot of trauma come through here. we work in the e.r. along with these guys making sure everybody's safe, and this is probably the worst thing that i've seen come through here. it's shaken us. shaken me to the core. so we all have a lot of healing to do. it's very hard. i think one of the toughest things i've ever had to do was stand outside the rooms of those fallen guys, you know, providing security detail, and then taking them out to be transferred to the m.e.'s office. a line of officers falling respect to their fallen comrades. that was one of the most difficult things i've ever done. so it will take some time, and we'll get through. >> a lot of people shaking their heads at that.
was that perhaps the most or one of the most difficult moments of that night? >> it was. i stepped out about maybe 3:00. i had just missed out, i was coming back. when i stepped out, i was getting ready to go across the street to my office to get cleaned up. but one of the most amazing things i will take away from that night along with the sorrow is going out on that path and seeing all the police cars, all of the ambulances, all the providers that were there, that thing was packed. the it was like trying to get out of a concert hall. there was so many people who had come here, flocked here to try and help and take care of people. i was in awe. it was truly an amazing scene. and i came back over about 4:00 when the honor guard was there. and there was still just as many -- they had to move people
out away, all the cars out of the way to be able to take the bodies. and so it kind of was a mixed emotion at that point, you know, with all of what had happened still weighing on our souls. but the overwhelming support that was there was pretty amazing. and i still remember looking at that, just shaking my head going, i can't. this is so incredible. and i just think that was the highlight. >> i'd like to add to that. when that all occurred and those dallas officers were in here, they were obviously dealing with the loss of their loved ones and their partners, and our department had this overwhelming sense of need to protect them. and, you know, our officers let them know that we had their
backs, that they could stand down, that they could take care of what they needed to in the e.d. with their officers that were injured and with the ones that were deceased. to all of my officers, they've expressed that need to be there and to take care of those guys while they were grieving and dealing with what they were dealing with. just very proud of the way that we stood up and dealt with this as a whole team. and supportive to those that really needed us. >> has anyone here been able to have a moment with a counselor or anything like that? you have? >> yes. obviously, with it being police officers that were shot, that impacted my guys tremendously. they're seeing this firsthand. i think we all know that when we do this job, there's a chance we may not come home. it became real that night for a lot of our guys.
two shifts of our guys. so we've asked that our pastoral care come to our roll calls. we've had briefings and made sure that anybody that is in need of any counselling, it's available to them. we've been very proactive in making sure that our guys are taken care of. >> i'm still working on a real dinner at a dinner table. i haven't made that yet. so i'm going to try to do that first and then re-evaluate from there. meals have been eaten in squad cars and standing around and on the go. so once i get that done, i'm going to do that, and try to go for a run after that, and then -- maybe not right after. and then i'm going to try to regroup from there. [ inaudible question ] i have not. i haven't felt really the need to do that yet.
i've had a few good cries dealing with it and trying to get the emotions out. i took my uniforms to the taylor, and went in there, and the lady is playing music "wind beneath my wings" which is commonly played at funerals. and right there in the tailors just broke down. it's just a process. i'm getting through it. but no, i haven't sought services yet. i don't think i'm going to need that. i'm processing it. >> you talk about the emotional impact. it's much more complicated for me personally. it's not just about that one night. it's about the racial undertones that affect and impact all of this. so it began for me much before those cops came through the door that evening. i don't know what i'm going to
do about that. but right now, it is certainly a struggle. where i'm standing with law enforcement, but i also personally feel and understand that angst that comes when you cross the paths of an officer in uniform, and you're fearing for your safety. i've been there. and i understand that. but for me, that does not condone disrespecting or killing police officers. and it's something i'm struggling with constantly. and i truly don't know what i'm going to do next. [ inaudible question ] yes, i do. so, i have a daughter. i make sure -- i do simple things when i'm out in public. when i see police officers eating at a restaurant, i pick up their tab.
i even one time a year or two ago, i bought one of the dallas p.d. officers some ice cream when i was out with my daughter getting ice cream. i want my daughter to see me interacting with police that way, so she doesn't grow up with the same burden that i carry when it comes to interacting with law enforcement. and i want the police officers to see me, a black man, and understand that i support you. i will defend you. and i will care for you. that doesn't mean that i do not fear you. that doesn't mean that if you approach me, i will not immediately have a visceral reaction and start worrying for my personal safety. but i'll control that the best i can and not let that impact how i deal with law enforcement. >> dr. williams, i'd like to say something to your credit. during our critical debriefing that occurred after this
happened, dr. williams got up and spoke to the leadership of the hospital, and i think as a law enforcement officer, i understand what he's saying. but one of the things that stood out to me that made me respect dr. williams so much is he said when those three police officers came through the door, the initial ones, that not even for a second did he think about anything that was going on, or that it compromised him caring for them, no differently than he would anybody else. and that to me was very reassuring, that he was willing to set aside any personal feelings that he had and that he was going to care for those guys with everything that he had. i appreciated that. >> i'll take it one step further. brian and i are like the rest of the guys here, we are close. and we don't just say that to entertain you. we work together, we play
together, we vacation together. our families know one another. our wives know one another. our children know one another. and i think as i watched us all struggle through this, brian and i have had some very long hugs, and the beginnings of some really challenging conversations about how we move forward from here. and i think it's interesting that two guys who truly love each other, and i know he would to anything for me and i would do anything for him, have such very different takes on how this all comes together. but i think what's been awesome for me is both of our resolves to move the discussion forward. and to help turn what is truly a
senseless act into something that helps us as a city, helps us as a family, and helps us as a country move forward from here. >> and going from there, the international spotlight is on dallas right now. what do you want people around the world to know about us? >> you want to take that? >> well, i think listening to chief brown earlier today in his statements, you know, i think he was on point in that we have to come together as a city, as a community, not black and white and hispanic, but as a community to figure out how to go forward.
i think his words certainly resonated with me, and hopefully, out of this tragedy, there will be some good that will come out of it and we will be able to make meaningful steps forward as a community in race relations and in caring for each other. and i think you can see here amongst this group that we don't see each other as black or white. we see each other as a family of surgeons who's out there to care for the community. >> if we can just get a couple more. >> can i say one thing to you i think that's really important? the chief, again, he's a great guy to work for. and he's been unbelievable. what he said this morning was dead-on. but i'll tell you what i hope
people get from this, is that we will not let hate drive this discussion. and we won't let acts of gun violence drive this discussion. and we won't let this city be known for a hateful act that occurred here. i think what's going to come from this and what i hope comes from this is that people who never before talked to one another or hugged one another, doesn't matter if you're black, white, surgeon, not, we don't care. it doesn't matter. this city is going to come together and show the world exactly what we're made of. and that's what's happening right now. >> nurse, would you like to share something with us? >> i would say, the day after this, i am just so proud of this team and this staff, the medical staff. it's not easy to be vulnerable. and it takes a lot of courage to
be vulnerable. i think you see amongst this team the amount of vulnerability that they have shown through this. typically, when you're dealing with health care workers, they tend to be stoic sometimes. we can roll with it. we can do whatever is necessary. and we can. but really, there's the human and emotional side. i think taking away from this, what i've been so proud of, knowing our people are technically competent, can really get through any disaster. it's the quality of the human being that people that are here and the people that help support this tragedy. and the human side of it that we're all here today. it takes courage to be vulnerable. and i'm very, very proud of that. and we see that with our surgeons and our staff. and we're really helping support each other. i think the human factor is really coming through here in the city of dallas. i see it throughout our system. we love our patients at
parkland. we do everything we can to take care of them. and it takes a heart to work here, and i think it was demonstrated. >> how are the nurses doing as a whole, the ones that participated in this? >> i think they're struggling. they're still struggling. it takes an emotional toll when you go through something like this. some people may not feel like they need counselling now. they may need it two weeks from now. or three weeks from now. but we're still struggling. and we're a group that likes to save people's lives. >> i'll say one last thing. it's hard for me to put this into focus of the national attention of what's going on with race relations.
we don't care what color you are, what race you are, what creed, when you come here, you're a patient, and we do the best to take care of you that we possibly can. i think that's how we live our life, and that's how we treat each other. and so at times, it's hard for me to put in context when there's still people who don't treat people that way. it's almost unbelievable to me. and so that's kind of where i am. i think that's where we are as a whole. probably brian with your background, this is different, but certainly the way we are as a group together. i think that's where we are. and so that's what parkland stands for. insured or uninsured, you come here, we're going to take care of you. >> i know that's what we are. and i don't think i know. and as the person up here who wears a couple of different
hats, i mean, i'm a dallas police officer, and i'm proud of that. but i'm a parkland trained surgeon. i'm a home grown product. i've spent my whole career in the walls of this building or the one across the street. and i think that there is no finer group that i would walk this with again. none. >> any final questions? we're going to wrap it up. a lot of these providers are either on duty or have been on duty. so thank you very much. >> thank you. that was really an extraordinary press conference there at parkland hospital in dallas with people really sharing their experience. people who were on the front lines. and i think it's something that we don't hear enough of, or we haven't heard enough of, at least over the past couple of days since this has happened, in the past week or so, about people who actually work together and love each other, of
different ath necessities, and races and backgrounds. and i think that happens more in america than we hear about, especially over the last couple weeks. my last conversation was with a black lives matter leader and she was saying a cop shouldn't be a cop. that guy is a cop knows how to deal with both angles. people can be multi-dimensional and wear different hats. i think it's important to hear that. the one person in that press conference that i was most impressed with, and american, if you look on social media, he's trending, that's dr. brian h. williams. he is a black surgeon there. and says he knows from both sides. he's afraid of police. but he's made a commitment to serve the community and to save everybody's lives, including police officers. and what he does with his daughters, buying police officers lunch and ice cream because he wants to see his daughter having good interactions with police officers. all of these surgeons saying they have never seen anything
like that. he said, for him, the problem wasn't the lack of -- wasn't the issue with, you know, this guy and whatever he said, the problem is the lack of open discussion about racism in this country. that's what the problem is with him, and i second that emotion. amen to you, dr. brian h. williams. i'd love to have him come on this show and start that discussion, help us start that discussion here. i want to bring in bob goreski, an attorney who represents the dallas police department. thank you so much for coming in. i understand that you were called into the police headquarters after this shooting. and i want to talk about the victims a little bit later on. but what did you think of this press conference, these doctors in this press conference? >> hey, don. i heard the tail end of the press conference, and i would second much of what was said about the officers, how they're hurting at the present time, but how they're coming together and supporting themselves. i'd also like to say dr. alex eastman, i've known dr. eastman,
he's a special guy. he is so well-thought-of in the police department. he helps these officers in ways we can't imagine, other than just the medical treatment that he often provides. >> and again, and these doctors are admitting -- they're saying, listen, we've been going nonstop since thursday. and they said they need some time off. but it is nothing compared to what the victims' families are dealing with. and so they know that. and some of them are probably going to get some time off. but you knew two of the victims, right? so tell us about them. >> that's correct. yes, mike smith, sergeant mike smith, i knew for many years. mike was a supervisor that every officer would want to have. police officers want supervision that's consistent, and they want supervisors that will watch their back and support them when they believe they're correct.
and when a supervisor believes they're correct. that was the guy mike smith was. he was close to retirement and he's going to be missed. lorne ahrens was a bear of a guy, but always had a smile on his face. my wife and i were at a police wedding three weeks ago. i introduced my wife to lorne and his wife, who is also a police officer and a fabulous lady. i said to her afterwards, i said if i was ever in a dark alley and needed police help, that's the guy i'd want watching my back. it's a shame. >> if you're just joining us, it's the top of the hour and you're watching cnn. this is our special coverage of the police killings in dallas, and we have been watching a press conference that just took place at parkland. i'm talking to bob gorsky. he knew two of the slain police officers. he was called to the hospital shortly after this all happened.
you were called into the pd headquarters just after this ambush. can you paint that seen for us, mr. gorsky? >> it was very hectic, to say the least. the pain on the face of all the people who were down there. investigators, other officers. there were officers and detectives called in from off duty, of course. they had to do a job. at the same time, i'm sure most of them knew at least some if not all of the officers that were injured or killed. but they pressed on and did their job and continued to do their job and have through the weekend and into today. it was an experience i had never had before. we've responded to many hundreds of officer-involved shootings. usually at the scene. but to come out to headquarters thursday night and be there friday morning to see this scenario that was unfolding, it's hard to imagine.
>> yeah. how did it affect you? >> well, knowing some of the officers, it was different than i guess the run of the mill case that we might respond to. all of us have to do our jobs, have to support those that are bearing the burden of this tragic event, and that's what we attempted to do. over the course of my career, i've known probably a dozen or more officers who have been killed in the line of duty. it's certainly never easy. the magnitude of this event just made this one very different. >> is there anything that stuck out to you from those statements that you have been receiving from the officers involved that night? >> well, this was really a heroic effort. and you've heard some of the stories i'm sure, and i think the stories of heroism we've
heard to date are just the tip of the iceberg. but in all levels of the department, officers at the scene, or those who responded to the scene, reason to the fray. they ran to the bullets. and the sounds of the shots being fired. one swat officer, he's gearing up with equipment and a high powered rifle, made the comment to me the other night. he said, you know, i got all this equipment on me and i'm ready to go. but i'm running behind a bicycle officer who had his gun out in his shorts, and he's running to the same shooting event that i'm running to. the patrol officers were rushed to the el centro college and they were ready to do whatever was needed on the floor where the suspect ultimately went. so in all levels of this department, from the patrol to the supervision, the command staff, chief brown, have reacted amazingly to this event from the
time it began. >> i can see that you're deeply affected by this. we thank you for taking the time to join us here on cnn. thank you so much. >> thank you, don. it is just past the top of the hour. i'm don lemon. this is cnn's special coverage of the ambush in dallas. we just heard surgeons, doctors, first responders speaking for the first time since that horrific night in their city. talking about the horror that they witnessed as a number of wounded police officers needed their help continued to rise. look at this. >> i understand the anger and the frustration and the distrust of law enforcement. but they are not the problem. the problem is the lack of open discussion about the impact of race relations in this country. and i think about it every day.
that i was unable to save those cops when they came here that night. it weighs on my mind constantly. this killing, it has to stop. black men tying and being forgotten, people retaliating, people that are sworn to defend us, we have to come together and end all this. i do simple things when i'm out in public. when i see police officers eating at a restaurant, i pick up their tab. even one time a year or two ago, i bought one of the dallas p.d. officers some ice cream when i was out with my daughter getting ice cream. i want my daughter to see me interacting with police that way, so she doesn't grow up with the same burden that i carry when it comes to her relationship with law enforcement. i want the police officer to see me, a black man, and understand that i support you. i will defend you.
and i will care for you. that doesn't mean that i do not fear you. that doesn't mean that if you approach me, i will not immediately have a visceral reaction and start worrying for my personal safety. >> i missed my son's birthday party on saturday because duty called. i don't think any of us have really had a chance to stop yet. in fact, i'm the trauma surgeon on call for us right now. >> certainly an emotional news conference coming after an exhausted and frustrated police chief revealed more about the man who scrawled cryptic messages in blood after shooting 12 police officers, killing five of them. chief david brown also saying he and his family got death threats after his department used explosives strapped to a robot to take the sniper, micah xavier johnson, out. here he is a short time ago. >> there was a large stockpile, one of the bomb techs called me
at home to describe his concern of how large a stockpile of bomb-making materials he had. and according to that bomb tech, he knew what he was doing. that this wasn't some novice. and so what's on his laptop, how he learned that, we don't think he learned it in the military. at least we don't have any evidence of that. we can learn all that online, i guess. so we'll try to determine how he learned how to do that. >> also today, the dead shooter's father, mother, and stepmother are revealing what they think may have caused him to snap. so let's talk now to victor blackwell, cnn anchor live in dallas. and before we get to the parents' interview, victor, what else did the police chief reveal? what are you learning about what he used and what he did in this ambush? >> reporter: we're learning details from the police chief, but also from a law enforcement source with information about the investigation, and we're learning about the weapons that the shooter had with him there at the el centro building after
this standoff ended. let's start with the long gun. a 545 caliber, a semiautomatic assault style rifle. it's a variation of the ak that we talked about so many times over the past several years. also, a glock pistol and a frazier handgun. we're told this shooter also was wearing a body armor, bulletproof vest rather when he was found there in that building. now, the investigation, of course, went to his home in mesquite, a suburb of dallas, searching for evidence. we're told that during that search, they found evidence of other purchases, receipts and paperwork for a cobra, a lureson, a walter, and glock handguns as well. none of those weapons were found inside the home. however, we do have some details about the lureson and the cobra specifically. this source says they were inexpensive, throwaway weapons. we spoke with a weapons expert on the dpd, the dallas police department force, and they say that lureson specifically goes
for about 50 bucks. so very inexpensive weapon. you heard from the chief there, a substantial amount of bomb making materials. what were those materials? what were the ingredients? how much was found inside that home? no specific details, though, there. still a part of the investigation. >> victor, thank you very much. the shooter's parents gave an exclusive interview to "the blaze." listen to this. >> the military was not what micah thought it would be. >> it disappointed him. >> he was very disappointed. very disappointed. but it may be that he -- the ideal that he thought of our government, of what he thought the military represented. it just didn't live up to his expectations. >> let's talk about that now. criminologist and behavioral aanalyst, attorney casey jordan. casey, the killer had a pistol,
a handgun, a semiautomatic assault type rifle, plus he was wearing a bulletproof vest. what does this tell you about his state of mind? >> well, he's former military, but what's interesting is since he got out of the army reserves about a year or two ago, he has continued his own discipline of self-training. going to a gym that teaches these militaristic tactics, these self-defense moves, and he's become obsessed with weapons and bomb-making, things that he never really did in the military, where he was i understand more like a carpenter. but it means that in his mind, the disappointment was blooming larger and larger, that he wanted to have a vision of himself that he had not yet fulfilled in his life. when his parents talk about the fact that his life was rife with disappointment, and that he had changed since his tour in afghanistan, we begin to get some insight. that this man was suffering with oh me, despair, hopelessness. he had some expectations, but there was a disjunction with his
expectations and his ability to achieve them. >> casey, the chief says the killer was laughing and singing while on the phone with negotiators. he seemed to fire and was asking questions about how many officers he got. what does that tell you about his psyche? >> well, he was all in at that point. he was like a gambler who had gone all in. and chief brown and everyone analyzing this case based on the bomb-making materials found at his home know that this was probably was not his moment. it was not his holy grill. he was planning something much bigger. but the events in louisiana and minnesota with these two very questionable shootings of black men at the hands of white officers, again, it festered in him. and in the space of two days, his plan got fast forwarded to the point where he was ready to act on his anger and his disappointment. i don't think he really planned anything long-term. i think on that particular day, he heard about the protest going on in downtown dallas. he knew it would be full of officers, white police officers. and they were the token, the
symbol of his hatred. he had no particular beef with dallas pd. it's just he wanted to make a statement, and those innocent officers, those lives that were lost were just his way of sending a message. >> it's just terrible. thank you, casey jordan, i really appreciate that. >> good to be with you. what may be the most meaningful and divisive plea yet to protesters of the black lives movement came today from the dallas police chief. here he is. >> become a part of the solution. serve your community. don't be a part of the problem. we're hiring. we're hiring. get out of that protest line and put an application in. and we'll put you in your neighborhood and we will help you resolve some of the problems you're protesting about. >> so joining me now is alicia garza, there she is on your screen. she's a founding member of the black lives matter movement. what's your reaction to the suggestion from the chief? >> you know, i have to be
honest. i think what's happening right now is that there are high emotions all over the place. understandably. there were five people killed and 12 people overall injured. that's a terrible thing. and, people in our communities are also wounded. we are hurting from watching the slaughter of black bodies on television every single day. more often than not at the hands of a police officer. >> so what's your reaction to what he said about joining the movement? >> i'll be honest with you, i think it's not logical. there are many, many people in this movement who are making their communities better. let's be clear that people aren't just sitting in the streets because they have nothing better to do. we have people who are part of our movement who staffed congress people for years. we have people who are a part of our movement who are changing laws. >> there are no police officers that are part of the black lives matter movement? >> i think that there are. i think that there's a lot of police officers who have said that they understand exactly what we're talking about, that there are deep problems in the departments that they work in.
and that they would also like to see those problems solved. >> and you bring up a very good point when you said emotions are high. i think that we all need to listen to each other. each of us. no matter what side we're on, whatever. there's not a lot of that -- there could be much more of that happening right now. but when i had another founding member on earlier, and i asked her, she said no, i don't think that members of the black lives matter movement should become police officers. that would sound to the average person that that job may be beneath them, or not worthy of someone who would be in the black lives matter movement. police officers have tough jobs. >> let me be very clear, the statement that was made was essentially saying that, you know, you don't know what it's like to solve problems in our community, so what you need to do is come off the protest line and become a police officer. that's almost like saying if a bus sits in traffic every day, that then your responsibility is
to become a bus driver. it's not looking down on it. but it actually scapegoats and skirts away from the problem. the issue that we have is that we have unaccountable, not transparent, lacking oversight policing, which is resulting in the deaths of hundreds of people a year. that's unacceptable. and we need to solve problems right now. >> well, i think the correct analogy would be if you're sitting on a bus in traffic, then you would become a city planner, rather than a bus driver. that's not the same analogy. but you think as a police officer, and you're working with the community, because community policing has helped somewhat. it hasn't helped 100%. but if you get to know the people in your community, that's when you make a difference. if you can do that as a police officer, wouldn't that be a great thing? >> you know, here's what i think. i think that as emotions are running high, logic is actually running out the window. and what we need to do is sit together and say we have a problem. we have a problem -- >> absolutely. >> we have a problem of violence
in this country that needs to be resolved. and a lot of the heightened emotions right now really reflect the frustration of inaction. the fact that there has been no action to make sure that we are right sizing how much money we're investing in the system of policing. the fact that we're not doing enough to make sure that we are making policing as transparent and as accountable to the communities that they serve as possible. those things should be goals that we all share. >> i think that's absolutely right. but to say that can't happen if you become a beat cop, and you become a lieutenant or a sergeant, and then you become a police chief and whatever, and you become like chief brown, in charge of a police department which is a highly touted police department, which is reflective of the community, which is a department by most accounts for the most part, the department does the right thing. how can one say that you cannot make a difference as a police officer? that is completely logical. that's not logic out the window. >> i just think that's not what's at stake here.
the spirit in which that's offered is not the one in which you're naming. so in all fairness, where we are right now, is in a situation where emotions are high. we are also receiving threats. death threats. there's lots of emotions on either side, essentially saying you're the problem. >> no, you're right, alicia. i want to get to this. because this has also been something that you guys have been criticized for. and i want to get your reaction to it, whether you think it's fair or not, and that's rudy giuliani. you've heard his comments. let's listen in, and we'll discuss. >> it's inherently racist, because number one, it divides us. all lives matter. and when the presidential candidates, the governor of maryland made the statement that all lives matter, they intimidated him into changing it to black lives matter. all lives matter. white lives. black lives. all lives. number two, the black lives matter never protest when every
14 hours, somebody is killed in chicago. probably 70%, 80% of the time, a black person. where are they then? that means they don't mean black lives matter. they mean let's agitate against the police matters. if they meant black lives matter, they would be doing something about the way in which the vast majority of blacks are killed in america, which is by other black men. and black lives matter, therefore, puts a target on the back of police. if you want to deal with this on the black side, you've got to teach your children to be respectful to the police. and you've got to teach your children that the real danger to them is not the police. the real danger to them, 99 out of 100 times, are other black kids who are going to kill them. that's the way they're going to die. >> so he did correct himself and saying he should have said 90%. and he said, and this is a quote from him, that black lives matter group is inherently racist. what do you say to that? >> here's my response.
it's really unfortunate that former mayor giuliani's comments are so far a relic of the past. where most people are in this country is understanding that that kind of logic, that kind of rhetoric is not only divisive, but it's not rooted in fact. the reality is when the mayor was mayor here in new york, the conditions in the black communities were not great. and if we're really concerned about addressing issues in black communities so that there isn't interracial crime, then what we would do is invest more resources into those communities to make sure that people have a shot. but overall, those comments show me that the former mayor doesn't understand racism. that the former mayor is not actually in relationship to black folks. i have talked to dozens of black people over the last couple of days who say, i don't know what else to do. every black parent has a conversation with their children about how to relate to the police. every single one. hands on 10:00 and 2:00.
yes, sir, no, sir. those are things that are prevalent in our communities. so that kind of rhetoric, if newt gingrich can say that he understands racism and that black people in this country have a very different experience than white people, then i'm not sure what's stopping the former mayor. >> i have to go. we've gone on long. i always ignore the voice in my head saying we have to go to break. but i have to ask you, black lives matter inherently racist, he said that. how do you specifically said that? >> racism is a system. it's not about people being mean to each other. so when we have a system that has black people at the losing end of every single disparity that you can think of, that's what racism is. and that's how we know that the former mayor doesn't actually understand what racism is. >> thank you, alicia. i appreciate our conversation. >> thank you, appreciate you. up next, we're following breaking news into cnn. police responding to a courthouse shooting in southwest michigan. reports of at least one police officer shot. this story is p duoing. it's right now. we're going to get more information on it and bring it to you after the break. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything,
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this is information that we're getting into cnn. it's very limited. a police officer was shot outside the barrion county courthouse in st. joseph's michigan. that's according to a person who we spoke with at the berrien sheriff's office. no further information is available about this incident or the officer's condition. i want to bring in now paul callen, a cnn legal analyst and a former nyc homicide prosecutor, right? >> yes. >> and talk to me about the security surrounding courthouses, because we often hear about shootings and security issues at courthouses. what happens? >> you know, it's changed radically in the last, say, 15 years, don. i remember 15, 20 yearsi ago, you'd go into a courthouse, no screening, nobody checking to see if you're wearing weapons. now virtually every courthouse in the united states, you go through a procedure much like you do at the airport with screening for weapons. because there's a great fear -- and there had been a number of
great number of incidents in courthouses of court personnel being shot. even judges being shot in courthouses. so it's very, very tight security. >> if you're just joining us, again, we are being told that a police officer has been shot outside of a courthouse in st. joseph's, michigan. the county courthouse is berrien county. we have no word on the police officer's condition or the circumstances surrounding the shooting, but we do know it has happened and that is according to someone in the berrien county sheriff's office. i'm speaking to paul callen, he's speaking to about the security procedures around courthouses. also bill gavin is a former assistant fbi director and he joins us as well. bill, talking about security and about the safety of officers inside of courthouses. that has been in the news lately. and they have beefed up security at courthouses as paul has said. >> paul is certainly right on
target. you can't go into a courthouse today -- i know here in boston, you can't get through the front door without going through the security checks, similar to metal detectors and whatnot that they use at the airport. they are a lot more aware of conditions that can't happen. i mean, they train also with the capital police, to realize what they do to keep people that would have evil intentions from coming into their buildings there. so it's a situation that's known to everyone at the courthouses. it depends upon the training, the regional training and how well people do their jobs on these screenings before anybody gets into the building. >> and this says shot outside the courthouse. usually around the buildings, there's very high security around buildings as well. >> that's a different matter. it's a lower level of security on the outside. if it's a federal courthouse, they're heavily protected because of terrorist threats. but local county courthouses
really are not. it's usually inside where the heavy security starts. >> we're going to get more information. new information coming in about a police officer shot outside of a courthouse in st. joseph's michigan. we'll be right back. wanna try something new? (wanna try something new echoes) covergirl introduces new supersizer fibers mascara check this out 400% volume plus so much length you can't believe your eyes crazy new super sizer fibers mascara from easy, breezy beautiful covergirl
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we're back now following the news out of berrien county, michigan, where a police officer was shot outside the courthouse. we don't have any information on his or her condition yet, but we're going to bring you updates as we get them. i want to get to cnn's deborah feyerick, who is following this story for us. deborah, what do you have? >> we can tell you that was
confirmed to us by the berrien county sheriff's office that one police officer was shot outside the courthouse. a few details right now, but we've got calls into a number of law enforcement agencies to identify exactly what happened, what the circumstances were, and who that person is that they might now be looking for who apparently shot a police officer. so it's really just beginning to break at this moment, don. >> i want you to stand by, because i need you to help us out with this, unless you get calls from your sources. but i want to bring in paul and bill. paul, cnn legal analyst and former new york city homicide prosecutor. violence at courthouses inside and out of courthouses. how often does that happen? >> it's actually sadly very, very common. when you think about a courthouse, it's the hub of dark emotions and high emotions for a community. divorce cases, murder cases, robbery cases. the victims are there.
the people who committed these offenses are there. there's a lot of bad emotion all confronted in one place. so it's not surprising that there are fights in courthouses and there have been many shootings outside courthouses. >> is it something that can -- that should be continually looked at, the security, especially outside of courthouses? we've been talking about things that happen at airports now and how they need to secure the perimeter even more. does that need to happen in courthouses? >> i think it has to happen. clearly it's happened on the interior of courthouses, but it's a public resource issue. if you pull that perimeter line out even by a block, there's an enormous requirement of manpower. we've done that with federal courthouses. you go to the federal courthouse in any community in america, and you'll find heavy security as you approach the courthouse. but to do it in the many thousands of state courthouses were would be a crippling financial burden. >> if you're just tuning in, a police officer shot outside the berrien county courthouse in st. joseph's, michigan. it happened just a short time
ago. our deborah feyerick is on the case. she's saying that the berrien county sheriff's office is confirming that to us. i want to bring in bill gavin. what do you make of what paul just said, that security needs to be increased, not only inside, but also outside of courthouses as well? >> it's absolutely right. the problem that we get into is exactly what paul said. it's a matter of finances and a matter of resources. we don't know, in some of the smaller places in the united states, they just can't afford to do these things. we talk about concentric rings of security inside the courthouse is that core center that has the higher degree of protection. as you move toward the front door of that courthouse, that's kind of a middle ring. when you get outside that courthouse, that's where there's a soft target. now, as paul said with the federal buildings, they can move that concentric ring outside a black or two, or a block, probably. and prevent something from happening inside on the sidewalk
or anything. but sooner or later, you're going to run into that soft target area when you're doing those kinds of thing. it's inevitable. the country seems to be getting more and more violent. and things have to be done. sometimes they have to bite the bullet to do those -- to make those changes. but i can't see a lot of changes being made in small places that can afford to do something like this. >> it does appear that we're living in a culture of violence right now. a climate of violence in this country. i want you to stand by, bill gavin, paul callan, deborah feyerick. a police officer shot outside of a courthouse in michigan. the breaking news right after this.
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our breaking news. we're getting word that a police officer was shot outside the berrien county courthouse in st. joseph, michigan. we don't have any word of his condition or the circumstances surrounding it. also, this is just in. from the governor of michigan, governor rick snider tweeting msp, michigan state police have secured the scene at the berrien county courthouse and started its investigation into the shooting that occurred this afternoon. as we get more information on this breaking news story, we're going to bring it to you right here on cnn. but we also want to stay on top of the black lives matter protests happening around the country. philando castile had been pulled over 52 times between 2002 and 2016, that's coming from court records. the last time they pulled him over resulted in his death. an officer in falcon heights, minnesota, shot him to death. the officer's attorney now says it was for that reason that, "had nothing to do with race and
everything to do with the presence of a gun." now, one country singer is focusing on the traffic stop. his video instructing drivers on how to prepare for police approaching a car has been seen more than 32 million times. his latest album is called "this is me," says the whole point of the video is about "getting home." >> one of the first things that i do, whenever i got pulled over, i wanted to make sure that my car was completely turned off. the radio is all the way down. i'm facing forward. both of my hands are here with my finger out. with my fingers out. get your wallet, please. >> i'm going to reach for my wallet. >> great. as the cop is approaching, you have to realize, he doesn't know what's coming. follow me, kenny. as he's walking up to the car, if he's able to see both of your hands, that's safer for him. it takes his adrenaline down, because he knows as he surveys and sees multiple people in the car, there's one person, both hands are here. his safety is already in better hands than it was. do not sit on your wallet.
do not sit. you want to have your wallet either the side of your door, cup holder, or at the front of your dash. you have to have your i.d. pulled out before the cop gets there. because if you're reaching down, as he walks up, you could be pulling a weapon, which is going to compromise his safety, which is going to make his adrenaline go up. at the end of the day, the policeman wants to go home safely. we want to get home safely. even if the cop is having a bad day, you have to go home. you've got to make it home. >> coffey anderson now joins me live. thank you so much for joining us. why did you make this video? >> you know, i made this video because i felt like people needed to be educated. there's a lot of tension in our country right now. in the last week, my heart has been broken multiple times, as yours. and i called the sheriff of tarrant county, who was a friend of mine, bill wayburn, and i said hey, let me teach my people, as far as my fans and the people that i communicate with the right protocol on what to do when pulled over.
and we had a lengthy conversation about 18 minutes early thursday morning. and then i went straight to my friends and i said we've got to educate people. >> i know it's been shared, you know, a million times. a lot of times. but what type of reaction have you been getting personally? >> the reaction has been two different sides. one side has been thank you so much. we really appreciate it. i didn't know this. you know, not sitting on my wallet, because typically when people sit on their wallet, they're going to reach. to a policeman, it looks like you could be pulling something. a lot of people are like, wow, that's a great idea. and another comment that i've been getting a lot has been, why would i have to do this? why as a motorist would i have to go through all of these steps to make him feel comfortable with me? >> let me read one of them. and then we can talk about it. >> please, go ahead. >> one of them says, man, please. this is on facebook. man, please.
so people have to do all of this to make an officer feel safe? when they ask you for your i.d. and you reach for it and they shoot you anyway, then what? why are we acting like the drivers are the problem? high don't we get a video training officers how to treat and encounter black people? let's do this both ways. what do you say to those comments about that? >> first of all, i did answer that comment, if not one very similar. what i said was, you are very right. your feelings are extremely valid. i understand exactly what you're saying. the law enforcement officers that i've talked to and to the elected officials that i've had a chance to speak with, they are really trying to find ways to get these cops more educated to even be more calm. but that's not what my video was about. my video was to help drivers have a protocol that could possibly get them home, until we can get more trained officers on the street, which i believe that a lot of police forces are doing right now.
>> yeah. and listen, i understand why you did it. but i think people are not listening to each other right now. what you're trying to do is keep somebody alive. it doesn't mean that it's right that they have to do that. >> absolutely. and the video was created to streamline communication between law enforcement and between us. because it's about going home. >> but sometimes, if you even follow those rules, sometimes, you know, it's not 100%. you know that. >> absolutely. and that's why my heart was breaking. especially in the castile case and what happened there. you know what? this video is not a solution in any form. >> it's one tool. >> it starts the conversation. >> and it's one tool. and, you know, to keep you -- to try to keep you safe. i appreciate the conversation. and i like what you've done. and i thank you for coming on cnn. maybe they should teach us in driver's ed. maybe it should be in the driver's manual what you should do when a police officer stops you. >> absolutely. and i've had teachers actually tell me that they want to show
breaking news here on cnn, it is coming out of berrien county, michigan, where a police officer was shot outside after courthouse. i want to bring in deborah feyerick with the latest on the information. deb, what do you know? >> reporter: what we know is that shooting began about 2:30 this afternoon. emergency crews responding. the courthouse, it appears, was evacuated according to reports. it is unclear, don, how many people were shot but the county says a police officer was shot. unclear whether that police officer was a target or whether the shoot er opened fire on others and the police officer was responding. all of this is under investigation. we do know very panicked moments at the courthouse. crews are on scene as they work to clear what is going on there. we will have more for you at the top of the hour, don. >> all right, deborah. stand by, i want to bring in
gretta volkenschtein who was a witness. she shot video. you were driving by and you know people in the building. what did you see? >> caller: i live about a block away and i just saw a barrage of cop cars and s.w.a.t. and fire trucks and ambulances and i just knew something bad was going on right away. so i have colleagues and friends that work in the government and in the area. so i stopped to a parking lot right outside of the courthouse and just asked if people know what's going on. there were only a few people that i talked to who have been able to get out of the building. and they said they heard shots fired on the third floor. we're told to evacuate immediately. they got out. they said they were -- i offered
them rides home or help. they wanted to stay. they couldn't leave because their colleagues are inside. i got word from oerm friends who work in local government buildings. they said they are on lock down right now. they've been trying to relay information to me as they find out what's going on. i heard it was an active shooting, just until a few minutes ago, i believe. it's gotten under control. don't know how many shooters. apparently there were at least one hostage. from what i heard from a former st. joe police officer that he said there were two county clerks that had been shot. and another friend who works in the government said they have been confirmed dead. >> okay. repeat that again. what did you just say? >> that people have been telling
me that they've got confirmation that two county clerks have been shot and are dead. that was as the active shooting was still going on. i don't know if that's more people -- >> we don't have that confirmed here at cnn. i just want to tell our viewers that. but i understand that you are very close. what is the situation like now? because you said the whole town is on lock down? >> yes. i live a block away. my kids are in lock down in the basement. people in the area are texting me saying they are all on lock down. i think people are worried that there are shooters in the locations that they are in, as we see outside the courthouse figuring out what is going on. it is just happening. i was talking to people who just got out and they said, we dent kn don't know what's going on. our colleagues are in there.
there are hostages. i think one person said that -- that there was for sure a confirmed dead person and that a friend who works in the government told me that just a few minutes go as well. but it is really unclear. there is helicopters all over now. they keep pushing us back. but original parking lot i was in, a lot of officers came with guns and just got everybody out of there very quickly, which led us to believe that it was still an active shooting going on and we were not safe. they are now using that as a triage area, the parking lot, for medics. the police officer told me that which leads me to believe there are multiple injuries at least. >> gretta, stand by. there is a shooting outside the
courthouse in st. joseph michigan. happened just a short time ago this afternoon. we don't have any more details really on the surrounding this. deborah feyerick was reporting that it had something to do with a court officer. but much of this information not confirmed to cnn. we don't have any confirmation as deaths as gretta said moments ago. we are checking on this again. it happened outside after courthouse for information we have available. we are speaking to great who shot some of this video. this is a video shot, she shot the video a little bit earlier and gretta said she lives a block away and knows people inside of the courthouse ansaid she is still on lock down as is much of the town, right, gretta? >> yes. no one knows what is going on. rick snyder, governor, someone told me about a minute ago that he had text/tweeted saying that the area is secure now.
>> he did. he said they secured the area and they are checking on information. gr gretta, i have do get to a break. we will continue to speak during the break. don't go anywhere. police officer shot at the courthouse in berrien county, michigan. medicare options until you're sixty-five, but now is a good time to get the ball rolling. keep in mind, medicare only covers about eighty percent of part b medical costs. the rest is up to you. that's where aarp medicare supplement insurance plans insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company come in. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, they could help pay some of what medicare doesn't, saving you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you've learned that taking informed steps
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