tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN December 12, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PST
and that does it for us, thanks for watching, cnn tonight with don lemon starts now. snds this is cnn breaking news. breaking news tonight, donald trump says he'll announce his pick for secretary of state tomorrow morning. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. the rumored front-runner, the millionaire ceo of exxon mobil, rex tillerson. trump calling mitt romney tonight to tell him he is out more news on that in a moment. meanwhile, the president-elect who hasn't held thea news conference in five months still won't be holding the one he promised thursday on the topic of how he plans to deal with conflicts of interest in his businesses. and trump is in conflict with many in his own party on russian hacking of the election,
suggesting nothing to see here, folks. let's just move along. we'll get to jim sciutto in moment. we go straight to phil mattingly. outside of trump tower. phil, good evening to you breaking news on the donald trump pick for secretary of state. what are you learning? >> the president-elect tweeting he will make the announcement tomorrow morning, one thing we know for sure mitt romney will not be the selection. mitt romney take to facebook a few minutes ago saying it was a tremendous honor for him to be considered for secretary of state and also adding that he has very high hopes for this administration, an administration a president-elect who he was a sharp critic of throughout the course of the general election. he was brought into the fold and considered a finalist for the secretary of state position. however, the president-elect has decided to go to a different direction. sources saying all signs
pointing to rex tillerson, the exxon ceo. the president elect called mitt romney tonight to let the 2012 nominee know he appreciated his willingness to be a part of the process. he appreciated his counsel, counsel he hoped to be able to draw on going forward. what we know right now mitt romney is not going to be the selection for secretary of state right now it looks like rex tillerson the exxon ceo -- with many business relationships throughout the globe, somebody who tracks very well with the president-elect sources say, will be the selection anouned tomorrow morning. >> mitt romney confirming on twitter. phil just read that, i want to talk about something else we just learned. donald trump postponed his first press conference since july? what's going on with that. >> july 27th, the last time the president-elect took questions in a news conference. he was supposed to put that to an end on december 15th. he announced proudly he would have a news krns to announce he would fully announce the plans
to fully separate himself from his business empire, a business empire we've seen repeatedly over the last few weeks is riffe with potential conflicts, that has been postponed until january. the news conference and plans for how he's going to try to separate himself. this is in part because he's been so focused on personnel, on these cabinet selections and the stream of people going in and out of that building behind me. the reality is also this. this is very complicated. the president-elect has made clear, he wants to hold on to as much of his business as he can while trying to separate from those conflicts of interest. what we know is structures to make that legally happen haven't been finalized. lawyers haven't been able to get through this entire process, and there have been disagreements about what those final structures should look like. because of that, this has been postponed and the news conference has as well. >> phil, stand by, i want to get to jim sciutto now. jim joining us from the white house. donald trump would have faced tough questions about russia's
interference in the election at that press conference. you have new information about the extent of russian hacking. what are you hearing from your sources? >> that's right. the new information is this, that is that russian hackers, in addition to hacking into the democratic party e-mails, they also hacked into republican party e-mails, members of congress from the gop, republican affiliated nonprofits as well as thought leaders among the republican party, and why is this important? because while those hackers then exposed the information from the hacks of the democratic party, they did not then expose the hacks of the information from the republican party or at least the vast majority of it, and it is that detail that has led to increased confidence in the intelligence community that the aim of these hacks was not just to disrupt the election process and the preamble to the election but was to aid donald trump. they haven't made that conclusion with confidence.
the fact that both parties were hacked and that one party was the subject of those releases by and large, this is adding to the # confidence in the intelligence community that there was an intent here from the russian side, that was to help donald trump or at least weaken hillary clinton. >> interesting, jim sciutto, many are questioning the man who is expected to be thamd secretary of state, rex tillerson. his ties to russia, especially in light of donald trump's comments about vladimir putin. will he run into resistance? >> he am. you have a hand full of republicans who have expressed publicly, marco rubio being among them, famously tweeting now, a friend of putin not questioned in his view a strong quality for secretary of state. rand paul, john mccain, now, does rex tillerson answer those questions with substance in a confirmation hearing? he very possibly could.
we don't know. but at least we can expect he will face harsh questions because of the sensitivity of that topic, this is in the news because of the election hacks, you have republicans, even mitch mcconnell saying they want a deeper investigation into this. to have a secretary of state with those ties is at least going to be something he is going to be asked about. >> the secretary of state has to interact with the entire world, not just russia, what qualifications does tillerson have for that? >> that's the judgment of the president. test head of the largest oil company in the world and he has dealing around the world. he most certainly would not have dealt with leaders of china, russia, latin america, you name it. e but when you are drilling for oil in these countries, you're dealing with the politics as well. he will be aware of the diplomatic issues in those places as it relates to the business. does that give you the qualification to handle the sensitivity of the one china question, which donald trump has put on the table here, and others -- again that's going to be a question in the
confirmation hearings, i can tell you there are diplomats i speak to, and diplomats who align themselves with the democratic party and republican party who are skeptical of that. it doesn't mean they're going to have the final word, but certainly something we expect to come up in the confirmation process. >> jim sciutto, phil mattingly, thank you so much i appreciate that. i want to bring in a panel. thank you for joining us. ryan i'm going to start with you i want to talk more about the russia hacking another a moment. first i want to get your reaction to the news of mitt romney and announce men tomorrow. what do you think? >> if it is tillerson, he's going to have a rough confirmation hearing, what we've heard from john mccain, marco rubio, lindsey graham and almost all democrats
is deep skepticism. someone with exxon mobile, someone with close ties and really a personal relationship with vladimir putin is the key person for this job. watch those key persons. watch what mccain says over the next few days. watch what lindsey graham says over the next few days. they seem to be telling trump don't pick this guy. they're going to have a big decision to make and that confirmation hearing will be important. the way to understand exxon is as a sovereign state in itself. as jim pointed out, he's used to going and meeting with world leaders, no doubt about it, the issues were always in the best interest of exxon, how to secure oil drilling rights around the world. he's against american sanctions on a number of states, including russia. his foreign policy, when he was running exxon often was at odds with the united states's foreign policy in a different place.
if this is his pick, he's going to have to learn how to represent the united states of america, not just exxon mobil. that's going to be very important for his confirmation hearing. >> buck, i want to get your reaction. what happened with mitt romney? >> it seems like mitt romney was brought in as a means of trying to coalesce the republican party. after a very bruising primary and very bruising election overall. mitt romney was very vocally opposed to donald trump as the candidate. and bringing in myth showed that donald trump was willing to extend his hand to those who were vociferously against trump in the white house. they seem to realize they would have had it great with mitt, and mitt is a moderate guy. if nothing else, at least mitt romney brings that to the table. some republicans are easier for democrats to stomach than
others. they shouldn't necessarily take the dial to 11 every time. >> the cia reported that russian interference in the u.s. election was intended to help donald trump win the election. donald trump rejects that, calling it ridiculous. matthew you are a expert in russia and its tactics in the world. is that a likely scenario, do you think? >> the question i'm wrestling with at this moment, you look at the effect that this hack has had in particular, the argument that it may have been intended to help trump, it's hemming trump in politically, it's weakening his hand, he has less political capital, in one area especially, and that's building an administration that can engage with moscow. >> how is that? >> we are hearing that rex tillerson is going to be challenged on his ties with the kremlin. trump himself has been challenged over and over. he has been pushed back on the defensive on the russia issue specifically. if you're vladimir putin and looking to have a better
relationship with the u.s. president, maybe you're intervening to get that to happen you have just actually worsened your situation instead of improving it. i ask myself, what might they have been thinking during the campaign before they knew the outcome. one possibility is they expected hillary was going to win. they have been watching news broadcasts showing she was ahead and most likely. what they wanted to do was knock her down a few pegs. they wanted to do whatever damage they could do, and they did that during the campaign. here's another possibility. irrespective of what candidate won, they wanted to put cyber on the agenda, as something scary americans would have to take seriously. it was rejected. that's negotiate a treaty about cyber warfare. >> a lot of people are wrestling with a few questions. including the current administration. president obama will talk about the russian hack on the daily show later tonight, i have a clip for you, let's listen in.
then we'll talk about it. >> the reason i have called for a review is to gather all the threads of the investigations, the intelligence work that's been done over many months, and put it in a single document that can be shared with members of congress, relevant intelligence agencies. they can be shared with the transition team so they understand what exactly happened. and so that the public and our elected representatives going-forward can find ways to prevent this kind of interference from having an impact on the elections in the future. >> i want you to react to what he said. but also, why do you think he waited until after the election? >> well, what we don't know is whether there's new information or evidence that would have made
the cia and other intelligence agencies more confident in their assessment, it wasn't simply that russian got engaged or involved in hacking the election, but did so to favor trump. russia's actions make sense if they thought they wouldn't get caught. in other words, their motivation may have been to help trump and they assumed maybe they would not have gotten caught. i think obama here is taking the long view, which is important to all of us, whether they're democrats or republicans, there's a midterm in 2018, another presidential election in 2020. there's governors and senators, if we do not figure out how russia did it, forget the motivation at this stage. what we can do to protect our networks, what various parties can do to protect their networks, and also, potentially punish russia, that won't be president obama's decision, that will be president-elect trump's decision, then let's do this investigation, it matters to democrats and republicans simply because this is a foreign country.
playing in our democratic elections at this stage. >> there's much more interest in this, the notion that we're going to be able to stop people from having unclassified e-mail accounts hacked and that information shared. essentially they can put out what would be called a public warning announcement. general safety on how to deal with unclassified e-mails. the reason this is getting so much attention right now, it's part of a broader narrative, and that is that donald trump is an illegitimate president. that russia tipped the scales in his favor. you have international newspapers writing maybe we can't redo the election, but we've seen a steady stream of a different story every couple weeks. whether it's fake news. or russia was involved in the election, or fbi director comey is an operative who threw it for donald trump, that's why this is getting so much attention, it's not because we're going to get some security review.
>> don, i think that's -- i >> are you saying this is a partisan -- >> i think that's a very unhair fair -- >> go ahead. >> i think that's a very unfair, myopic short lived, in some ways, insulting attitude about what is going on here. take a step back. i'm hillary, i was a hillary supporter, donald trump's going to be my president. i'm not interested in all these other fights. i'm actually interested in a -- as a national security expert and as an american citizen in what happened and why russia, and how they did this, this is relevant. look, the republican senators who know the most about this stuff, also want this review, it's not like this is some democratic conspiracy out there. i think you really do undermine both the sanctity of those out there risking their lives. >> i'm former cia. i don't need a lecture about the sanctity of people --
>> i don't think she's lecturing you. >> let her finish. >> as a democrat -- >> i'm not going to -- >> as a democrat. >> stand by, buck. people give their opinions on this show. let her give her opinion. >> thank you, it's not personal at all. take a step back right here, as i said, i am a democrat, i supported hillary clinton. i'm not interested in relitigating this presidential campaign. >> but a lot of people are, did you read paul krugman today. >> that's of less -- so who cares? who cares at this stage? >> most of -- >> what matters the most is that a foreign country thought that they could play in our election, that should matter to you -- >> it matters, and we've known that for months. >> matthew and ryan will weigh-in after the break.
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julia and buck. matthew, excuse me, you first. what is a partisan aspect of this, is there one? does buck have a point here? >> historically, when the russians the soviet union before them, kgb, secret agent man, when they were intervening in paper american politics, which they did all through the cold w war, they didn't come at us on our strong suit, they came at us where we were weak. our support for authoritarian regimes. areas where we had serious problems. where's our biggest problem in politics today? hyperpartisanship. the fact that any issue, even if it is -- any issue, can be politicize ed turned into a vulnerability they have unleashed an absolute partisan feeding frenzy, that i think is weakening the country and not getting at the core problem. >> you said you want to respond to something juliet said. >> if the russians hadn't been
caught, this plan would have worked perfectly. first of all, you always get caught. if you look at the last half century, the united states has intervened in other country's politics. soviet union has done so. almost without exception some information about that has come out. that's why the u.s./iran relationship is so dysfunctional. we intervened. even with this information having come out, it demonstrates this hyperpartisanship. even with the fbi and the kprai saying different things about what the intelligence indicates this is a win for the russians. i want to get the trump folks response to this kellyanne conway talked about trump and his criticism of assetsments on russia. lock a of the that. >> i would never paint with such a broadbrush to incriminate the cia. donald was asked that question this week, do you have confidence in the cia. he does, we all do. we're talking about a few people
apparently, who are leaking information to journalists, maybe to feel like they are effecting the outcome of the election after the election, which they can't do. >> that's a far cry from calling the fbi ridiculous. is she trying to clean up his comments? >> i think she's trying to clean it up a little bit. it's the cia that went to congress and briefed congress and said that it is their judgment that not just the russians hacked the democrats but that they wanted -- it was their intention to help elect donald trump. i think everyone needs to have more clarity on this. this is coming from anonymous sources on the hill. i don't think we have any disagreement that the cia -- we're trying to make sense of this all unless we have a further investigation.
>> this is where i wanted to respond to what buck said. he's channeling the frustration of a lot of trump supporters. who see this investigation, who see this issue of issue of what russia did as simply a way to discredit donald trump's victory. i don't think there's anyway around that. the fact of the smaert -- matter is, it does put an asterisk next to his victory. >> on the russians part or the democrats part? >> there's no doubt the democrats are going to seize on this issue, to me that doesn't mean that we don't look into it that we don't put together some kind of fair bipartisan investigation that lays out the facts clearly. if that means that donald trump -- his victory is tainted, or some people argue that it's tainted, so be it, it's far more
important, beyond trump and beyond democrats. this is about our country and our democracy. what partisans do with that information, so what? >> buck? >> i feel like i'm drowning on the sanctity of this issue. the real is, it didn't changed the election. no one in the intelligence community believes it changed the election, it's a leap that's being made analytically. they want there to be more than an asterisk under donald trump's name, they want this to be an illegitimate presidency. they are trying to undermine it from the very beginning. investigate this all you want, that's great. congress is going to do that. donald trump is not going to stop them nor could he stop them from doing so. we're not going to find out a lot of new information. we are not going to have sources and methods about the specificity of information, the chain of who got it, when they got it, and how they got it, we're never going to know that. we might found out, yeah, russia was meddling in this, the fact that they hacked into gop e-mail accounts, and they did nothing, that was supposed to help the democrats all along? why hack into the gop accounts in the first place. they may use that down the line
against the gop, that's been raised, this is being inflated as an issue, specifically because of the partisan politics behind it. and everyone pretending this is about saving america's democracy it's just hyperventilating over something that had no chance of changing the election whatsoever. >> that would mean that mitch mccome who came out today in favor of an investigation, that would mean mitch mcconnell is in favor of somehow making donald trump's election tainted. >> no, no, just the investigation doesn't taint it, but the fact that there is an investigation being used as fodder for people to go out there and go beyond the fact, this notion that there's a consensus within the cia, they know this for a fact, no, we keep going back to this -- it's a few sources that should not be speaking out about this. >> are you saying it should not be investigated? >> i'm sorry, don. >> are you saying it should not be investigated? >> no, it should definitely be investigated but we should keep the issue in the proper context.
and understand that there is an effort right now to create a narrative before we have all the facts that what russia did here, either to tip the election or show there's underhandedness and this is an illegitimate election. you want to talk about divisiveness, that's incredibly dangerous. >> isn't that a leap that you're making? because i haven't heard many people saying, this is to -- >> the daily beast, the new york times, read the editorial pages of some of the most widely -- >> we're talking about intelligence here, and people on the hill like mitch mcconnell and others. who are saying this should definitely be investigated. partisan news organizations are going to do with it what they will. that doesn't necessarily mean it is necessarily so just because they are saying that. >> i'm saying we should give this the proper context. this didn't change the election. >> i don't think anyone's -- no one's making the case that it changes the election. >> i'm saying no one makes that
case based on the facts but that's the insinuation. they're trying to undermine a trump presidency before it takes effect saying russia inveered. the fake news, that was out of nowhere. hillary clinton herself said, the fbi director tipped the election for her. this is nonsense. >> if donald trump doesn't believe the intelligence on the hacking with regards to russia, that raises the question, what other intelligence assessments will he question? >> i think the way he did it so publicly is dangerous, he's not taking the daily presidential brief, that's his choice, i personally think he should take it, because people think that the cia just stands there or the intelligence briefer stands there and said, this is happening, and we'll let you know when there's a smoking gun. that's the wrong theory of intelligence. what any briefing does, especially daily briefing, it lets the principle understand what is happening around the world, let's the principle ask questions which is key. so that the intelligence
agencies come back the next day with the answers. it helps drive resources, policy decisions, where are you going to put money or more troops or more agents, so it's a more active process than him sitting passively by. i think the most disconcerting thing about this something that -- to -- he is not going to take my advice, to either not be interested in the intelligence or as related to the hacking, to show hostility to the intelligence agency is a bad message to our enemies. it shows a lack of interest or curiosity. shows hostility. one day president trump will ask us as a nation to go to war possibly to deploy troops, he will base that on the various intelligence agencies that he's either not listening to or undermining, he has to take the long view. >> i remember when president >> that has to be the last word. we will be right back and we are
we have some breaking news tonight, president-elect trump is picking exxon mobil ceo rex tillerson for secretary of state. let's discuss with a senior military analyst. and fareed zakaria. fareed, i want to start with you. >> rex tillerson, if there's a ceo who is prepared to be secretary of state. it is certainly rex tillerson. exxon is like a country. it is one of the five or six largest operations in the world. it has operations all over the
world. energy is a very important business. they have negotiated with leaders all over the world. exxon has its own intelligence department, which is very good, they do forecasting of the very same kind that the cia does, he's had a dry run for this job in a way that very few ceo's have had. two things i worry about, what is good for exxon is not always what's good for america. he did a deal with the kurds in which they got the oil from northern iraq. the state department, the national security council, the defense department all said was a bad idea, because it would break iraq apart. exxon said, we don't care. that was under tillerson. it's good for our shareholders, perfectly fine, perfectly appropriate, we hope that as he transitions to be secretary of state, he will put the interest of the broader interests of the country. and it's quite possible he will, it's quite -- one should hope and expect he will. the puzzle here does remain the
russia angle, it's not rex tillerson, he's a fine businessman, he's done what he should do for his company. but if you add it all together, donald trump's repeated soft generous statements toward putin and russia, the appointment of mike flynn who has taken money the give banquets honoring putin and the russians. now, tillerson, you wonder whether there is some kind of strange pro russian tilt here that is inexplicable. i have to say, i think that it would be wrong to cast apersians on rex tillerson without giving him a chance to explain some of this, he has a lot of the background you would look for in a highly competent secretary of state. >> i want to bring in the general now. before i do that, general, tillerson has very close ties to russia. received the order of friendship
from putin in 2013, one of the highest awards a foreign person can receive from russia. are you troubled by that friendship? >> i am, from the perspective we need to be cautious. as fareed laid out very well. we have to be cautious had the -- in the type of relationship we want to try to establish with russia, what that means is, there's nothing wrong with trying to embrace russia in a measured, trust building way, we've not defined what that is, it's dangerous to try to define syria as the testing ground for where we may find a way to cooperate and work together with the russians. that's as dangerous as it can be. we have never had at the operational and the technical level -- we've never worked with the soviets or russia, there's a lot at stake there. syria is not a place you want to do that, there are a number of places where we could engage with russia, and walk down a path that would allow us to have a better more trusting relationship. right there, it's not there, we can't scale and jump right into this.
as far as his choice, what do you think? >> to fareed's point, the intelligence, exxon has sources, primarily sources all over the world. they have employees all over the place that can give you immediate realtime assessments of what's taking place on the ground. that's invaluable. and that's the breaking news. cnn is learning that rex tillerson will be picked as secretary of state. fareed, and general, i want to move on now and talk about the hacking. 17 u.s. intelligence agencies concluded before the election that russia is responsible. now the cia says they are confident that the russians did it to help donald trump. trump calls it ridiculous, and won't even say the russians did it, why is he taking on the intelligence community like this? >> well, you know why, don. it's one of the unfortunate character traits of donald trump, he's thin skinned, defensive, takes everything personally, everything is about him, imagine if donald trump as president-elect were to say
something completely different, were to say, look, the whole issue of cyber warfare is really serious, it's very important. i look forward to reading the reports and getting briefings from the intelligence community. we'll take it seriously, it doesn't change the election, he's still won, it doesn't change anything, he's just approaching it seriously, in the way it should be taken. cyber warfare is the next frontier, and with a the -- and what the russians appear to be doing all over europe, is this clever cyber warfare, where they influence political events, elections, and they do it with plausible deniability. because they are doggett in these offline ways and it's difficult to prove. i think this is a very serious problem not taking it seriously is frankly irresponsible.
it cannot change the outcome of the election. that's done. what we can do going forward, surely donald trump doesn't want to live in a country that is hostage to a foreign country's ability to meddle. gary casper, a russian chess master concluded, i would bet you what the russians have done, is they hacked into the democratic and republican national committees, they are leaking the democratic national committee stuff because for now they favor trump, but they are holding stuff about the republicans because they want to have leverage with trump. if that's the case, that's not very good for donald trump either, and he should learn about it, and we should learn what are the best ways the united states can counter that kind of new warfare. >> should we assume that the russia are hacking the military as well, or at least trying to? >> don, absolutely, without a doubt. the cyber domain is a domain of warfare, we have air, ground, et
cetera, we have rules that govern all that. cyber is an ungoverned common, folks exist and operate and do things online without any rules. we have to assume they are attacking us, we have an ability to pick that up. our nsa is unmatched. they, the russians and others that mean us harm, have incredible capabilities, we have to assume, i would say, every time you go online, you hit send, you consent to monitoring, someone is picking up what you're doing and how you're doing it, yes, the russians are doing that and we have to be aggressive. what the president-elect should do is say, russia did try to get into our election, were successful, we can't draw cause ailty in terms of how that influenced the outcome. let's not talk about that. okay, man, i know what you're doing, i know how you're doing it, i know you did it. let's establish some rules.
let's you and i agree if this doesn't work, we can work together and let's establish what that looks like. >> i appreciate it, when we come back. it's been five months since donald trump held a news conference, and the one he promised for this week, that's postponed. why the delay? we'll talk about that.
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this is according for transition source. they say president-elect donald trump is picking exxon mobil ceo rex tillerson as his nominee for secretary of state. let's discuss. david entered lick, rebecca bird, kevin madden. thank you all. let me start with david. the tillerson pick, do you think it's going to face resistance stiff resistance in confirmation? >> we'll see. i think there will be some resistance. you had some republicans out there today like senator rubio, saying they -- this is not what they had in mind. you had republicans gearing up on other front with the russia hack issue suggesting they want investigations into it, all this adds up to, i think because mr. tillerson has ties to russia, ties to putin through his business contacts, it's going to face more scrutiny than some of his other picks. will he be confirmed? now i would have to say i bet he will be confirmed. >> let me go around the table
for some quick assessment? what do you make of this? >> there were troubling signs today that there was some resistance, but i think one of the interesting things is now that the actual nomination has been put in play, whether that resistance begins to subside. i think president-elect trump has strong faith in rex tillerson's ability to make the case himself, as rex tillerson begins to meet with senators around the hill, begins to confront some of these questions that have been raised with his ties to russia directly. he'll start to get some converts. and you will see some of the rooi resistance start to subside. >> there was a huge push by some of his allies, we're hearing that condoleezza rice is a supporter of tillerson's, her firm has worked with exxon mobil. doing consulting. she knows him well. bob gates is another name we're hearing.
val chamber. all of these people will be involved in pushing tillerson on the hill vouching for his credentials. i think the challenge for him and trump's team is going to really be making the case that although he has this deep connection with someone like vladimir putin, that's more a reflection of his deep experience across the globe. and all the work he's done for exxon mobil internationally. he does. he's been doing this job for many years, he's travelled internationally extensively and worked with these leaders for decades. the challenge for them will be making the case that that is more of a reflection of his experience than necessarily his personal relationship with vladimir putin. also think that president-elect trump has confidence in the fact that republicans in congress are not quite ready to really challenge him on something this important. we may get to that point, but i don't think we're there yet. >> an interesting choice to at least sort of vet was mitt romney. and mitt romney tweeting tonight he will not be picked as secretary of state, here's what he said on a facebook post. it was an honor to have been considered for secretary of
state of our great country. my discussions with president-elect trump have been verien comfortable and very enlightening. i have very high hopes the new administration will lead the nation to greater strength, prosperity and peace. i want to ask you first because you worked with mitt romney, what do you think of that? >> i think he's genuinely interested in seeing the administration succeed, i think he's being honest about the fact that they did have good discussions. i think he legitimately was being considered himself. the process, i think that he saw was one that he thinks is going to produce a strong secretary of state nominee. in rex tillerson. >> i have to talk about trump team announcing that he is not giving a press conference tomorrow. talking about his business plans, he's going to make the announcement in january.
why do you think the delay to them. >> it's a combination of what they're saying, they still have some legal issues to work out. they didn't expect to win this election so they're behind the eight ball in terms of planning for this separation of trump between his business. also it's not clear how much he is going to separate from his business. going back a couple weeks when he was taking calls from world leaders and then having for instance ivanka trump on the phone with him when they talked to the president of argentina, where they have a real estate deal going on. or the trump organization does. it's not clear to me there's going to be a clean separation. and this is buying them some time at least to figure out how they are going to present this to the public. >> more to come. the end zone. the goal of every team. we know you have goals. like getting exposure for your idea or business. with godaddy website builder, you can easily create an awesome mobile-friendly, get you more exposure website.
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back now with my guests, david swerdlick, rebecca berg, david madden. prominent supporters of donald trump in the election haven't found a place in the new administration, chris christie, rudy giuliani and newt gingrich. does that surprise you? >> not completely. because there's been this narrative out here that donald trump prides his loyalty above all things but that hasn't been the case. he's been through several campaign managers during the campaign. when it suited him, he moved on. smartly probably. but now we're in this phase where even though you have these
gentlemen who defended him when no one else would defend him, he's gone with picks that he thinks are going to make him look better. what people should understand about donald trump, whether they like him or don't like him, is that his motivation, one of his top-line motivations is he wants to look good and if a pick is not going to make him look good, he won't pick him. >> rebecca, is that him or the team around him saying we know you like this person but we're tell you you need to move on? >> the sense i've gotten, it is donald trump making these decisions ultimately. leading up to picks there's been confusion around who he would select because donald trump is the only one in his inner circle who knows what he is thinking and he can change his mind very rapidly as we've seen during the campaign and during the transition so really this is driven by him. >> you think these early picks were a surprise, these gentlemen were surprised because they supported him very early on and they were not picked? you think they were surprised, wait a minute, we thought you
were loyal? >> well, you know, it's impossible for me to get inside maybe newt gingrich's head and figure that out, but based on some of their public comments, newt gingrich has gone out there and, you know, in some cases kind of gotten a little bit off message from what you would expect from an inside adviser. so there might be a little bit of bitterness there. you look at the way he reacted to mitt romney potentially being picked as secretary of state. someone who vehemently opposed donald trump during the election and you got the sense that newt gingrich, that didn't really sit well with him because he had been so loyal and what was he getting for that? >> you think this is about trying to avoid confirmation trouble? >> i think it is two things, first, the wants and the needs didn't necessarily match. they may have wanted some of these bigger jobs but donald trump didn't need them in them. yeah, i'd say two out of those three, newt gingrich, chris christie and rudy giuliani may have had problems getting confirmed. and that's a simple reality and particularly when you have the stress of a transition and the
pressure is on a transition, to make sure that people you put up will be confirmed, that let them canceled out. >> donald trump cares so much about stature. as you were saying, david, how people around him make him look. and can you think of anyone that garners more respect than the ceo of exxonmobil, for example? these titans of industry and generals who literally have medals on their chests. i mean -- >> also they're exactly what he said he wanted to put in place when he was running. he said we need people who understand business, we need people who aren't of washington and haven't been in government. and so, you know, the first three names are a departure from that profile. >> he also said that -- go ahead. >> i was going to say he picked mike pence as his running mate even though mike pence endorsed ted cruz in the primaries. >> he's more of an outsider, too, mike pence. >> mike pence is a conservative and donald trump is something other -- >> david, so far he has chosen several major donors or fund-raisers to join his
cabinet. during the campaign he said he was going to drain the swamp. do you think these appointments are contrary to that statement? >> yes, i do. >> simple. okay. that's it. >> it remains to be seen what kind of job they'll do, but you have folks like betsy devos for education, rex tillerson. these are establishment people. these are not, you know, the people up from the body politics so to speak. these are well-healed people who have contributed to the party who have connections within the party, who have been in insider circles for throughout their careers. this is who donald trump is surrounding himself with. and i think it's by design, whether it works or not -- >> if you look at it at a different way, they're all outsiders. even someone like congressman tom price is a critic of the way hhs has been run. he's an outsider in that agency. that's why he's there. steve mnuchin has wall street experience but not of washington. neither is rex tillerson. they fit a similar profile of
having a career outside -- >> they're not creatures of washington but they are not -- they're not outsiders. >> i've never heard someone's name mispronounced as much as mnuchin. >> did i get it right? >> mnuchin, mnuchin, whatever. is free speech under fire in america? why some students are calling for safe spaces to protect them on campus and those students are on campus and those students are not liberals. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com
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