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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  February 5, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm PST

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be but he may not. thank you so much brian stelter. finally tonight, it is national wear red day. that's why i'm wearing it, and the goal is to raise awareness about heart disease and strokes in women. heart disease is the number one killer of women. to learn more about the risk factors, please, go to wear red day.org and read more about it. thanks so much. anderson starts now. good evening. breaking news this hour, a short time ago president biden telling cbs news this about giving the former president class fified intelligence briefings. i'm quoting, there is no need for him to have the intelligence briefings. the briefings are a privilege, not a right to former presidents. the president's reasoning because of his erratic behavior related to the insurrection. we'll have more in a moment because we want to start with the insurrection at the capitol. tomorrow one month will have passed as one of the most shocking incidents this country witnessed. the trama will be measured in years if not decades
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particularly for the family and friends of the five people that died from the violence that day including one capitol hill police officer laid this rest this week but also because in the days since january 6th, we've learned exactly who we are right now and it's not a comforting lesson. it's a painful one in fact because members of our democracy have chosen to memory hole why this occurred in the first place. one man used lies, fear and violent rhetoric to invoke his most volatile supporters and put in a position where they could do something about the election results or so they thought. that was this nation's first attempted coup when the days later republicans it seems want to forget. in the words of republican senator lindsey graham two days after the attack, quote, it's time to heal and move on. that's what he said. what's happened in the months since the attack on the capitol is that the brief moment of unity experienced, one where even republican leader in the house kevin mccarthy said the
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president bears responsibility has reseeded and in its place, we see this, that same republican house leader essentially bending to knee after making a journey to the former president's residence. according to a source close to mccarthy, the minority leader was warned at the time it would look like he's crawling back to trump that was the quote. that's exactly what it does appear. and what is happening today, as well, the party is crawling back and trying to take the nation with it. again, this is who we are one month later and the party is not merely crawling. on wednesday night, many gave a standing ovation behind closed doors and congresswoman marjorie taylor greene of all people. the freshman congresswoman who questioned whether or not a plane hit the pentagon on 9/11 called a massacre of parkland a false flag operation trafficked in antis-semitic troeb. this was her message to the party today about the party and former president's influence over it. >> i want to tell you republican voters support him still.
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the party is his. it doesn't belong to anybody else. >> the party is his she says of the former president. doesn't belong to anybody else. a comment that could be one of the most truthful one congressman greene uttered. only 11 republicans voted to strip her of her assignments. the true power of the congress. 61 voted to kick liz chin chene of her position. not all republicans agree with the georgia congresswoman this is ben sass speaking about the same issue, the former president. >> now, many of you are hacked off that i condemned his lies that led to a riot. let's be clear. the anger in the state party has never been about me violating principle or abandoning conservative policy. i'm one of the most conservative voters in the senate. the anger has always been simply about me not bending the knee to one guy. >> sass took several jabs of
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supporters of the former president like greene saying personnality cults aren't conservative and yet, all indications are the former president will survive his sunday impeachment trial next week quite easily so tonight on the eve of the one month anniversary after the former president incited an attack on the capitol, people wanting to over throw the duly elected president of this land, that is who we are tonight. perspective on this from a former republican member of congress. thanks so much for being with us, congresswoman. when you look at many in fact republican party have done in the months since the insurrection down playing the violence, saying we should move on, visiting the former president, rallying behind standing ovations for congresswoman greene, is this really who republicans want to be? >> no, and what i focus on is at the beginning of this week, the freedom caucus claimed they had 115 signatures to get rid of liz cheney. in fact, she won resoundingly in
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a landslide with 70% support. i think the brave republicans like liz cheney, like ben sass, like adam standing up to the bullies are the future of the party. i think of those ten people who voted for impeachment you'll see future governors and leader of the party, people like ben sass. i'll focus on the positive there. i think it was appropriate that marjorie greene was kicked off of her committees with bipartisan support. again, i'm glad about that. i think you will see margry greene even be kicked out of the party before too long because she will blow herself up as she goes along and people do not want to be associated with her. you've seen a lot of strong statements from senators and congress to that effect. she doesn't represent the party. she represents one very red district, which will be redistricted in a year. >> when congresswoman greene says that the republican party
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is trump's party and doesn't belong to anybody else, it's the same thing donnie trump junior said the moment of the insurrection. he said to the crowd this is trump's party. i mean, is there any doubt that she's right? even kevin mccarthy who spoke sort of against the president the night of the insurrection at least was critical of his lack of, well, critical of his performance, his leadership and his lack of it. he is visiting mar-a-lago. >> well, donald trump lost the popular vote twice. 46% is the latest. we know his support deter rated. you're down at 42 double digit loss. it's more like 25%. somebody that can get 35% of the national vote is not the future of the party. 70 something-year-old man is not the future of our party. i want to focus on people like all of the women that i helped get elected last year, actually, i specifically, the board i
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worked on to elect republican women, we opposed margry greene and supported her male opponent in the primary but we have great women like young kim from california who voted to kick margry off her committees. joni earnst got elected. we have great members that voted for impeachment. that's the future of our party. i think these brave people that won't bow to the bullies are going to rise in stature as the president is shrinking and i do think it's important that he is convicted, you know, in the trial for impeachment. i support that. and i think there may be more support than you think because just as earlier this week, people thought it was over for liz cheney, now she is looking strong. margry who isn't going to be passing any bills, won't be in any committees, i think she'll be long gone before liz cheney or these other ten who voted for
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impea impeachment. >> what does it say, someone like lindsey graham who the night of the insurrection, you know, got up and said he was, you know, that was it for him. he's done with the former president. he was sorry it ended this way. but then, you know, he gets heckled in an airport, which is very unpleasant, obviously, by trump supporters and says later riding on a helicopter with the president going down to the border. he seems to have changed his tune. >> there is a lot of disinformation and that's what ben sass was speaking to today. i think liz and adam is very active on that front. denver rig gleman in congress has been talking about that. we need to take that head on. qanon has no place in the republican party or politics. we have to take that apart lie by lie. you know, starting with the president's election lies. i think the lesson we have learned from january 6th, which
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was a horror for me and so many members, you know, i worked there as an intern, staffer, a counsel and then as a member, and i think the lesson from january 6th is don't lie, don't attack our elections and don't attack our capitol, our sacred place for our democracy and that is why republicans are leaving this president, and i think yes, it's going to take awhile but stop looking at marjorie greenes and start looking at these brave leaders. look at some of our governors, people like chris who ran 20 points ahead of the president. we have some great leaders who are working with people to solve problems. >> former congresswoman barbara come stock, appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. joined by abby phillip and john king. john, is this the party of donald trump as marjorie taylor greene contends? >> yes, it is. i get her point and the fight she and others in the party want to make. until they win it, it is donald
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trump's party. when can they win it? the 2022 midterms will be primary fights and primary adam. marjorie taylor greene's district may be redrawn and there may be a primary in that district. that may be one way to play it out. watch what happens next week, anderson. the republican party is trying to escape trump. marjorie taylor greene, the day after her leadership, liz cheney came to her defense. democrats had the votes. she's just stuck it to them. coming out and saying donald trump is the leader of the party, not even respecting her own leaders who stood with her. neck week at the trial, the former president wants his lawyers to repeeat the big lie o go on the floor of the united states senate and raise questions about the election. so we're at the very beginning of this fight. today it is donald trump's party until proven otherwise. >> abby, you know, again, the tone struck by green this morning, she tweeted i woke up early this morning literally laughing, thinking about what a bunch of morons the democrats
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plus 11 are for giving someone like me time in this government conservative republican haves no say on committees anyway. this is going to be fun. it is -- a, it is kind of what she wants. i mean, she doesn't actually now have to pay attention to any stuff going on in boring ol' committees where things are -- important things are actually done. she's not going to be actually getting any bills passed. she's just going to be an influence, like an instagram infl influencer, what someone on the program last night called a click bait congresswoman. is there someone not having committee assignments and basically fundraising and making money off of who they are? >> you know, i mean, there probably is. when they kicked steve king off of his committees, there was a period of time which he was not going to be passing any bills and even before then, i'll not sure he was really doing anything legislatively. this is just version 2.0 of the sort of own the libs kind of
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republican party that marjorie taylor greene is advocating for and it's really em bblem mof a broader problem. there are others like marjorie taylor greene and matt gaetz that want this to be performance art and showing liberals they don't care and all of this doesn't really matter, and that is the choice that faces the republican party right now. is it actually about principles or is it just about this consc con constant, you know, bomb throwing in congress? you know, i'm not surprised that she thinks that this is ultimately a good thing for her. i don't think she was necessarily elected in her district based off of issues. she was elected in her district based off of her fidelity to trump, based off of her willingness to ed spouse these kinds of what we're calling crazy theories that donl't bothr
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her constit wents one bit. >> you heard ben sass said politics isn't about the worship of one dude. as of now, that seems exactly what politics is about. at least gop politics. >> right. look, he is one of the still few making the fight, anderson and whether the people watching at home are democrats or republicans or independents or not sure, we need a political system in the country. you want two parties. some want three or four where they have debates about policy. president biden wants to do a lot of big things and change a lot of policies. we should be having debates. ben sass, you want people like ben sass in the fight whether you agree with him or not. that's what you want. they're out numbered right now. you have state parties in nebraska going after ben sass and in wyoming going after liz cheney. they are being attacked by their state party for a voter prin principle. this is a fight going on within the party. we'll watch it play out. at this moment in time, it's
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donald trump's party and watch, i'm fascinated to watch marjorie taylor greene because remember, they're in the minority. there is a long history of back benchers in the minority a, causing throb for leadership. we'll see if it works. >> stick around, we'll discuss the breaking news about president biden saying his p prede predecessor is too erratic to get briefings. a milestone on the vaccine reached and what it means for recovery efforts in this country when we continue. when heartburn takes you by surprise. fight back fast, with new tums naturals. free from artificial flavors and dyes. ♪ dad, i'm scared. ♪ it's only human to care for those we love.
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days ahead of the impeachment trial, president biden said his predecessor should not receive classified intelligence briefings, something typically bestowed upon former presidents. >> let me ask you something you do have oversight of as president, should former president trump still receive intelligence briefings? >> i think not. >> why not? >> because of his erratic behavior unrelated to the unsure recollection. >> i mean, you've called him a threat. you've called him dangerous. you've called him reckless. >> yeah, i have, and i believe it. >> what's your worst fear if he continues to get these intelligence briefings? >> i'd rather not speculate out
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loud. i just think there is no need for him to have that intelligence briefing. what value is giving him an intelligence briefing? impact does he have at all other than the fact he might slip and say something? >> president biden suggesting he'll not extend the same classified intelligence briefings offered to other living presidents siting erratic behavior and would like a bipartisan covid relief deal with republicans but will not wait long for one. do we know if president biden instructed the director of national intelligence to stop or deny former president trump any intelligence briefings? >> reporter: we don't know that. he said he doesn't think he should get them. that also requires president trump to request an intelligence briefing. we don't believe he's done so so far and never interested in getting the intelligence briefings, even when he was no office. >> that's what i was going to ask. as i recall, he didn't get
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intelligence briefings like he should. >> reporter: on the record he was incredibly difficult to brief because he wasn't listening of would say the intelligence is wrong and push back on it and they said sit was a difficult way to get the president to ingest information. this was raised by sue gordon who used to brief president trump and she was the one who came out after the election and said she didn't think he should have access to these anymore and it was too dangerous and we have the current president weighing in saying he agrees which is rema remarkable. >> the president made news on the covid minimum wage. >> reporter: this is something he promised an the campaign and put it in the proposal. they talked about it time and time again at the white house. it facing road blocks on capitol hill and in this interview before we got to the fight with democrats whether or not this would be included in the final legislation, president biden seems to be conceding that it's not going to make it in.
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listen what he said. >> apparently, that's not going to occur because of the rules of the united states senate. >> so the minimum wage won't be in it. >> my guess is it won't be in it. i think we should have a minimum wage stand by itself 15 d$15 anr and work your way up -- it doesn't have to be boom. all the economics show if you do that, the whole economy rises. >> so you see, anderson, he still says he thinks we need one. he doesn't think it will be in this. this is remarkable because it could help stave off the fight we were likely going to see between moderate democrats, people like west virginia senator joe mansion who said he didn't think it should be included and other more progressive members like bernie sanders that said this is something that should be in included and president biden is seeming to say they have to try to achieve that another way and it's not going to end up in this proposal. >> all right. caikaitlan collins, thank you. back with us is abby phillip and john king and retired
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lieutenant agaigeneral james clapper. he's also the author of "facts and fears, hard truth from the life in intelligence." director clapper, do you believe donald trump shouldn't have access to intelligence briefings? >> absolutely. anderson, i think it was the right thing to do. i think first point, which was eluded to was the fact that typically, at least it worked in the last administration, we reached out to the in coming trump administration and asked to arrange for out going president obama to receive these briefings, which they eventually agreed to. in this case, i'd rather doubt that president -- former president trump would ask knowing that probably he'd get turned down anyway. the more important point is given president trump's disdain for the content of intelligence, as well as destain for
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protecting it, witness, you know, sharing intelligence with the russians and public discussions involving classified intelligence at mar-a-lago, this is absolutely the right thing to do. >> john, you know, we should point out intelligence briefings are one of the perks of being a former president. they're just a courtesy. >> they're a courtesy and you can give it to president obama. george w. bush, after 9/11 the threat of al qaeda, there was a different situation there we wanted to keep him in the loop including extra security. sometimes it's adaptable but in this case, look, joe biden just gave the answer. maybe he hasn't personally directed his director of national intelligence to do that. that was the director in the interview. president haves to make difficult decisions. this isn't hard. director clapper knows it better than i did. he has financial issues. why would you give him access to sensitive information? donald trump doesn't respect people that gathered in the
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past. donald trump has a history of taking a tiny nugget of truth and spinning it into a wild fanl fantasy conspiracy land. why give him access to something he'll either use trecklessly? >> it's incredible to the things we've bwitnessed that you can't trust the former president that he has so many financial problems, you don't know who he's beholding to or what he would do and you pretty much know he would do just about anything given his shamelessness. >> yeah, i mean, not only can you not trust the former president but the truth is that you probably couldn't trust president trump when he was actually in the office. the only difference is that at that time, he was sort of covered by this view that the president can basically declassified anything but very early on in his administration, he revealed class fified information in the white house
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to the russian am baskbassador e united states. these things actually happened. he has a long track record of letting out information that should be confidential, sometimes in interviews with reporters and at other times in private settings, as well. now, i think the question is what is going on with his business life, his personal life and political life? how can, to john's point, how may he use some of this information to further spin whatever kinds of conspiracy theories that might be politicalliey ied a ---ed a ventageous to him and show he has a political sway for the next four years. >> it's not like donald trump doesn't know about a host of america's secrets. i guess, there is no way for the intelligence community to kind of go about a delicate task of
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him not knowing that information. he wants to business in the middle east somewhere. you know, does he use some information that he has access to or make promises if he gets back in office to get business? >> well, that's certainly a hypothetically possible. i think, although, i would hope it would be unlikely and in fact, there is not a lot that could be done about it unless he does something like that and we learn about it and then, of course, he'd be subject to some form of prosecution. so, of course, in the past, you know, we've always depended on former presidents under the honor system to protect the classified information that's shared with them. in this case, i think president biden made exactly the right judgment and there is no question that the director of national intelligence will certainly compile with that instruction.
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>> yeah, director clapper, when you hear sue gordon, the former principal deputy gni wrote an op ed in the washington post in favor of denying the former president intelligence access, she said it's not clear that he understands the trade craft to which he's been exposed, the reasons, the knowledge he's acquired must be protect from disclosure or intentions and capabilities of adversaries and competitors to use a mean to advance their interests at the expense of ours. >> exactly, knowing sue as i do, it's a remarkable statement about the risk involved to continue to try to brief president trump and another point i'd add, some of that information that finds its way into a pbd, people have risked their lives to acquire it and so there is a sacred trust in protecting the people who collect it. >> john, this admission by
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president biden on the $15 federal minimum wage doesn't think it will survive the covid relief proposal. how will that play along democrats? there are an awful lot of democrats, bernie sanders and progressive wing who want to see that. >> they'll realize number one it's the truth. you have a president who is a senator and been deeply involved in talking about the legislative tragedy here and understands republicans are going to raise a point of order in the senate saying it doesn't fit the definition of reconciliation. you can't do it through the legislative vehicle. senator sanders with the budget committee wanted time to give it a try. he'll be disappointed. one thing president biden has done is kept very good peace with the left since winning the nomination, since winning the election and early days of the presidency. he's addressing political reality. this is likely going to be the end anyway. those on the left would prefer
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he stay quiet and let them fight the good fight and see where the chips fall. >> abby, where do you see this falling? >> democrats understand the politics of the situation. i don't think that it comes as a surprise to them the $15 minimum wage wouldn't make it into the bill. reconciliation or not. it was likely from the very beginning to be the thing that got cut off from this process because it was the easiest, the lowest hanging fruit to offer as a compromise to the other side or to moderates. but i also think that, you know, many democrats even before joe biden was inaugurated made it clear in a narrow margin in the senate might make it easier for them to justify cooperating with the rest of the party. in other words, the progressives understand that this narrow majority gives them so little room for error that in order to have any wins at all, that i have to work together. they either go together or don't go at all and that's what you're seeing happening now with democrats. you're not hearing all that many
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complaints because they know if they fight with their own, they're going to get nothing at the end of the day. >> yeah. abby phillip, john king, director clapper, thank you very much. a slew of major developments in the battle against covid-19 including when the cdc says they will release their plan to get back to school. think you're managing your moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease? i did. until i realized something was missing...me. my symptoms were keeping me from being there for him. so, i talked to my doctor and learned... humira is for people who still have uc or crohn's symptoms after trying other medications. and humira helps people achieve remission that can last, so you can experience few or no symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections, including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb,
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big news in the fight against covid-19. 10-1 this week, there is that and late word today the nfl pledged to make all 32 of the team's stadiums mass vaccination sites and today the cdc says they will release the plan on reopening schools neck week so th -- next week so there is that that projects 631,000 deaths in the u.s. by june 1st. the model also projects that daily deaths have peaked and are declining. that's good news. the director dr. chris murray joins me now with dr. sanjay gupta. i want to ask you about your new projection. can you explain what you factored into those numbers and this idea that we've already
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peaked? >> we factored into the new projections that in some states, you know, some of the new very ya -- variants showed up. that alters the trajectory for new york. it goes up a bit. and we're factoring in that as people get vaccinated, we think about a quarter of them will sort of go back to a precovid level of mobility. now, if those aren't right, if the variants are more wide spread and people go back to their previous life faster, then you get closer to the worse scenario we put out. >> dr. murray, i'm curious. we're hearing a lot more about these veariants now from the south africa, brazil. everyone describes it as the race between the vaccines and virus. how do you know you're going fast enough? i mean, how do you sort of
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conc concsee this race, is there a right speed or speed that's good enough? >> i think the metaphor of the race is right. the more we vaccinate, the less transmission, the potentially fewer people that will get exposed to the new variants but, you know, in all probability, those variants will spread. i think both cdc and ourselves think that come april, at least the u.k. variant would be wide spread, maybe the south african variant and that will start to change the dynamic. so, you know, the more vaccination the more death we'll prevent, it's not clear we can stop the variants spreading throughout the country. >> sanjay, the cdc showed what impact a state mask mandate can have. what did they find? >> yeah, no, this is pretty significant. i mean, what they found was that masks would decrease the growth
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rate in hospitalizations, and it would do it fast. 5.5% decrease overall in the growth rate in new hospitalizations and that was for people between the ages of 18 and 64 and they found that usually you started to see the benefits of masks again, on hospitalizations, not just new cases but hospitalizations within three weeks. so that was pretty, you know, we've known for sometime masks have a significant benefit but now we're getting this objective evidence. >> so there is the question about surgical masks of n 95s. should americans be wearing those if they can get their hands on them because there was -- we talked to the head of the cdc. the town hall and also are they difficult to wear and as opposed being comfortable? >> look, i was there. i heard that, as well, and i've
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also talked to people who say if you have an n 95 mask widely available or even kn 95 masks that have been authorized under emergency use and people are wearing them in situations where they go into population dense areas, that we could, you know, essentially make a significant impact. he actually said end this pandemic in four weeks if we did this regularly. yeah, i mean, i wear these masks all the time. you know, i wear them in the hospitals. they are more uncomfortable. you're supposed to get them fit tested but that means breathing in and making sure it's around your face and nose and mouth and it suctions pretty well. but i -- yeah, i do think they should be more widely available to be honest with you. there were plans discussed even back in march last year to make these more widely available. if you protect yourself, i think you should do it with the best possible mask and we are still in a position to be able to do
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that. >> dr. murray, do you agree with that? >> i think quality of masks matters a lot. n 95 is at the very top end. it's highly effective probably from some of the lab stoutudies three-ply masks get you to 80 pefrz and far more comfortable. it's really about getting the most protection on americans as possible. you know, after a year of campaigning, three quarters of americans wear masks so we should try as hard as we can to get the best quality masks in use and it's more comfortable to wear a three ply mask than not at all. >> based on your data over the past year or so during the pandemic, is that a good use of time? >> you know, i should get --
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mailing to everybody probably not because three quarters of people are wearing a mask but getting it to those communities where masking is low, super important. huge benefits of getting masks, it makes it easier for people to wear a mask but a lot of this is about people's choice. we have to puersuade that extra quarter of people to wear a mask and probably not because they can't afford or get access. it's just convincing them they can save lives in their community. >> that's what dr. fauci said on the last town hall, he didn't think access to the mask was the issue. dr. rochelle says on wednesday, teachers may not need to be vaccinated for schools to open. then the white house walked that back saying he was essentially kind of talking her personal capacity, which i'm not sure that doesn't seem to be true. so should vaccinating teachers be a prerequisite forg getting
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teachers back to the classroom? >> i think what dthe doctor was referring to is you have certain school districts around the country you've been able to open safely. in fact, the spread within the school was far lower than in the surrounding community. the wisconsin study, for example, that was looking at the last term of school, they found it was, i think, 37% less covid transmission within the school. in fact, you know, out of 5300 people within that school district, you had 191 people who actually were found to have been diagnosed with the infection but only seven of those cases actually were from the school itself. i think what -- you know, i've been talking to a lot of people about this. it's complicated. i don't think there is a slam dunk answer here. there are school districts around the country that seem to have enough resources to do the things necessary to have the ad q -- adequate ventilation and
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space and square footage to keep safe and some don't. that's what a lot of teachers are concerned about. are you going to make me go back and teach in a room that is poorly ventilated, too small and all these things? the default answer has come that we must be vaccinated before we will do that. so, you know, i think it's not a one size fits all answer here and i think i'll be curious to see how the c ddc sort of makes these recommendations next week. i imagine there will be benchmarks. do you have the ad quit ventilation and space and if you don't, maybe the vaccines will be a prerequisite. >> appreciate it. what president biden said about the former president's second impeachment trial and will democrats push for the biden -- president biden's p predecessor to testify when it gets underway next week. that and much more when we come back.
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impeachment trial set next week, that came up in president biden's interview. >> let's turn to the impeachment trial. president trump's impeachment trial, if you were still a senator, would you vote to convict him? >> look, i ran like hell to defeat him because he was unfit to be president. i watched what everybody else watched. what happened when that crew invade the united states congress but i'm not in the senate now. i'll let the senate make that decision. >> president biden leaving it with the senate. meanwhile, democrats are now signaling they're unlikely to issue a subpoena for the former president's testimony. democrats don't think they'll need him to testify despite making their case. instead, democrats plan to argue his refusal to testify highlights his gult ailt and
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democrats believe there are sources showing the former president's attempt. joining us harvard law school professor noah feldman who is a witness for the prosecution during the last impeachment. professor, good to have you back on the show. if the house impeachment managers wanted the former president's testimony enough they asked him to voluntarily appear, why wouldn't they then try to compel him to appear now that he's refused? i mean, the former president's attorney said this say publicity stunt. doesn't it make it seem like a publicity stunt saying it's not really necessary? >> it's trial tactics, which isn't the same thing as a publicity stunt. if they subpoena the president, which the senate has the power to do by majority vote, trump could refuse to show up and he could essentially go to court or the senate would have to go to court to try to compel him and that would draw out the whole process for a longer period of time and i just don't think anybody and certainly not
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president biden wants that kind of delay involved. >> so the house democrats are indicating they would use the former president's refusal to testify against him at trial. how can they actually do that? >> it's not a criminal trail. you can draw inferences from anything you want to. in a criminal trail you can't say the accused didn't testify so thereaffore his guilty. therefore you can conclude that he actually engaged in in inci incitement. of course, jurors and senators aren't forced to listen to that. they can make that argument. >> there are complaints that the process is rushed, that there was no evidence hearing in the house. given the volume of the video and social media evidence, the congress people experienced the insurrection themselves, how do you expect them to layout the case? >> i think they will use the publicly available evidence that we've seen again and again and
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again and maybe they'll have new video footage of angles to explore. basically, this is an imp impeachment charge based on stuff we seen in realtime. we saw donald trump's speech. we saw the reaction to it. we saw the breaching of the senate rather of the capitol and so i just don't think is to connect the fact that we know to the charge of impeachment. that is what they are going to try to do. >> how much of the trial do you expect to be about the insurrection itself and the former president's role in it and how much do you expect to delve into the larger claims of election fraud. >> i hope the house managers do delve into the bigger story. to my mind what we actually saw on january 6th is the culmination of a long-term process by which donald trump chose to break the election system. that started back with the conduct he was impeached for the first time by pressuring ukraine
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to investigate joe biden for the first time. trying to interfere with democracy. i hope those are emphasized along with the events of january 6th. >> how do impeachment lawyers approach a trial in which 45 members of the jury already said they think the proceedings are unconstitutional because the former president is no longer in office. there are no circumstances that there could be a 2/3 vote for conviction. >> it is hard to picture what those would be. the only thing to imagine is new evidence or a february surprise. i think if that would have happened we would have heard about it already and that would have had to do with other things donald trump might have done to preserve himself in the presidency. we heard about attempts with the department of justice. we have not heard of anything in the defense department. if there were we would have heard about it by now. but you could imagine maybe it
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would sway some of the republicans. the democrats have nothing to lose because 45 people already said they are going to vote to acquit. >> we still don't know what the structure of the rules for the trial will be. is that unusual? >> it is unusual. ordinarily there would have been consensus by now, given the trial is set to start quite soon. but in reality the rules can be, at this point, whatever the democrats impose with their 50 votes plus one. in practical terms the rules are likely to be close to what the rules were in the past and just how long will each side have. we know they will have the same amount of time on both sides. >> professor, thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> up next, fox cuts ties with lou dobbs. the question is why.
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that's the planning effect, from fidelity. there is more breaking news tonight. lou dobbs has been fired. this evening was the last broadcast. the cancellation comes after he and two others were named in a $2.7 billion defamation suit by a voting software company. so, wow. this is something. >> that is what i said. >> what are you learning? >> that is what a lot of fox business staffers. stunned dobson has bs has been .
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this is a very rare decision by a network, and it raises all sorts of questions about dobbs' connections to trump. whether fox news and fox business are trying to change. >> only on tv do you get paid to not work. >> yeah. >> one of the extraordinary things about tv. i mean is there any reason to believe fox will make other changes to move it towards a more reality-based existence. i assume you can't -- who are the two others? jeanine piro. >> maria. >> one of the three stars named in the lawsuit. the next day his show is taken off of the air. yes. that was absolutely a factor. the lawsuit. the threat of another lawsuit was a factor. there were other factors. dobbs did not have a p.l. among
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advertisers because his show's content was so extreme. he had been ticking off management for quite some time. will fox have less tolerance or are they cutting dobbs loose. is he just one way to get the lawsuit in some ways off of fox's back. that question remains to be seen and it is unclear what the real agenda is. >> the former president sent out -- i don't know how he sent it out. there was a message from him about lou dobbs. >> that is right. coming from some of his aides, a few staffers working with him. trump saying he is a big fan of lou dobbs and can't wait to see where dobbs will end up next. maybe he will re-emerge on another channel. what is happening in the right wing media is the same thing as in the g.o.p. how much space is there for extremism and content and
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television. there are a lot more shows just like his still on tv. >> making a lot more money for the network and probably have better ratings. so they stick around. reminder, don't miss "full circle" 6:00 p.m. eastern. watch it there and on the cnn app any time. news continues and let's hand it over to chris for cuomo primetime. >> dobbs being gone does nothing to the lawsuit. his actions while he was there were condoned and defended by his employer in their response. that is all you need as the plaintiff in the lawsuit. good weekend, best to you and the boy, anderson. i am chris cuomo. welcome to primetime. the news world is buzzing about president biden. listen. >> should former president trump still receive intelligence briefings? >> i think not. >> why not? >> because o