tv The Lead With Jake Tapper CNN March 30, 2021 1:00pm-2:00pm PDT
expert analysis. we'll do this again tomorrow. i'm brooke baldwin. thanks so much for you being here with me in new york. let's go to washington. "the lead" with jake tapper starts right now. >> welcome to "the lead. i'm jake tapper and we begin today with our national lead. we expect the trial to resume imminently in minneapolis where the prosecution is laying out its gays against former police officer derek chauvin calling witness after witness who watched george floyd die as chauvin need on his neck for almost ten minutes. one witness, a 17-year-old seen here on the right taking her young cousin to get a snack from a neighborhood store when they walked by the distressing scene. she recorded the video seen around the world of floyd eats final moments on earth pleading for help, crying out for his mother, saying he could not breathe. that witness testified today that chauvin ignored pleas from
the crout to check for a pulse, from even an off-duty firefighter. she was not shown on camera today because she is a minor, but listen to how seeing mr. floyd die has affected her life. >> there's been nights i stayed up apologizing and apologizing to george floyd for not doing more and not -- not interacting in, not saving his life but like it's not what i should have done. it's what he should have done. >> that witness' young cousin just 9 years old also took the stand and said ambulance workers had to push officer chauvin off of george floyd when they arrived on the scene as cnn's omar jimenez reports. >> good morning, members of the jury. >> reporter: the story of what
happened on may 25th, 2020 in minneapolis told today through the lens of eyewitnesses. >> i believe i witnessed a murder. >> reporter: donald williams was standing feet away from george floyd as he was pinned under the knee of derek chauvin. after floyd seemingly's unresponsive body was loaded into ambulance that day, williams called the police on the police he had just witnessed, in particular derek chauvin. that 911 audio was played in court. >> the guy wasn't resisting arrest. >> reporter: he didn't feel like he could talk to the overs at scene. >> did you believe that they were involved? >> yes, totally. >> reporter: but the move contentious exchange of the trial so far -- >> did you say that? >> is that what you heard? >> was between williams and chauvin's attorney during cross-examination. >> you called him a tough guy? >> i did. >> you called him a real man? >> i did. >> you called him such a man.
>> i did. >> you called him bogus. >> i did. >> you called him a bum at least 13 times. those terms grew more and more angry, would you agree with that? >> it grew more and more pleading for life. >> the defense emphasizing a point it made during opening statements, that the perceived threat from a growing crowd caused chauvin to direct his attention away from floyd's care. the next witnesses appear by audio only since they were under 18 at the time of floyd's death including a 9-year-old and 18-year-old cousin only identified as d.f. she's the one who filmed the now infamous cell phone video seen around the world. >> i see a man on the ground and i see a cop kneeling down on him. >> reporter: she was asked to identify derek chauvin in court as the same officer she saw on the scene that day. >> are you able to tell the
ladies and gentlemen of the jury if you know who this man is. you can take your time. the ch >> i why, yes. >> she felt threatened by the police there, including chauvin there, a day she can't let go of even close to aer yoo later. >> when i look at george floyd, i look at -- i look at my dad. i look at my brothers. there's been nights i've stayed up apologizing and apologizing to george floyd for not doing more and not interacting, but it's like it's not what i should have done. it's what he should have done.
>> we lost omar's shot there, but let's discuss as we wait for the trial to pick back up any moment. joining us right now shan woo and van jones. the prosecution has called five witnesses today. they all watched george floyd die last may. they were there in person. two of them recorded what they saw. now they are witnesses to a crime so i understand them testifying, but they also filmed the crime. i mean, the jury saw this with their own eyes, too, so explain the prosecution's strategy. >> the prosecution is using a very compelling strategy. they are trying to put the jurors in the shoes of those eyewitnesses, trying to put them right there on that street to feel the same outrage, to feel the same helplessness that all of us felt and how those witnesses must have felt right there. that's very strong evidence and it's so interesting in this time there's so much video available from the cell phones.
these are not government surveillance cameras or evidence, evidence that came from citizens who watched it so that's a very compelling way to present this case and there's dangers, too, because it's very emotional and prosecutors will have to be careful that they don't end up being accused of appealing too much to emotion later on in the trial. >> and we heard from one witness when she was 17 when she saw george floyd die. when she looks at pictures of george floyd she sees her dad and brothers and uncles and she stays up nights apologizing to him for not doing more when she saw him on the street. heart wrenching, really. >> yeah, when you -- when you have a lynching which is what this was, you aren't just torturing the individual who you're strangling to death, you're torturing the whole community. that was the point of the
lynching. it wasn't to laud power over one person, not just to tore tune one person to death. it was all the witnesses who were helpless to rescue their uncle, their father from this horrific act and that's why this thing thing struck such a deep cord. it's not just the jurors who are being put in the position of being a witness, the whole world has been in that position for nearly a year. that video, that young woman is going to be tortured by this for the rest of her life and did a service to humanity and she suffered for it. >> let's go back to minnesota where judge cahill is reconvening the trial. they just are swearing in a witness. genevieve smith i believe is her name. genevieve hanson. let's listen in. >> is that is even a problem given that we're playing them before the witness testifies and she would be available for that questioning. >> i don't say a confrontation
issue, mr. nelson. are you fine with that arrangement? >> so stipulated. >> all right. then those exhibits 24 and 25 and received. >> thank you, your honor. at this time we will play exhibit 24. >> you call what he's doing okay? you call what he's doing okay? you call what he's doing okay? >> are you really a fire fighter? >> yes i am from minneapolis. >> get back on the sidewalk. >> the man ain't moved yet, bro. >> the man ain't moved yet, yet. >> he's not moving. >> bro, you're a bum, bro. you're a bum. >> check his pulse right now and tell me what his pulse s.tell me what his pulse is right now. i swear to god. >> he has not moved, not one time, bro. >> for five minutes. >> he's mott moving! >> no, no, no. >> go back to the store, bro, go
back to the store. >> he's not moving. >> i see that. [ inaudible ] >> he's not movinging. >> he was just moving when i walked up here. the. >> does he have a pulse? >> i'm busy trying to deal with you guys. >> he doesn't have a pulse. he's not fucking moving. >> go, go. 987, bro, you're a bum. the first thing you want to do is grab your mace because you're scared, man. >> what are you doing? he's like dying. what are you doing? he's dying! >> why are you still on him? >> he says he's not. >> what is wrong with you? >> get off of his neck, bro. >> you're still on him. >> are you serious? >> nobody --
>> wait. >> hey, hey, hey. >> why are y'all still on him? he's not doing nothing to y'all. >> you going to keep your knee on his neck. the brother is not even moving right now, bro. >> bro, you going to sit there with your knee on his neck. you're a real man for that, bro. >> listen. ike a first responder. the fact that you guys aren't checking his pulse and doing compressions if he needs that, you guys are on another level.
the okay. i have your name tag, bitch. i don't care. i'm not on call. >> freedom of speech. the. >> don't touch me. don't touch me. don't touch me. >> don't touch him. don't touch him. >> don't touch me. >> don't touch me, bro. >> don't touch me, bro. >> you can't do that. >> what's that guy's number? and then, your honor, we would publish to the jury exhibit 25.
>> 911, what is your emergency? >> hello. i'm on the block of 38th and chicago, and i literally watched police officers not take a pulse and not do anything to save a man, and i am a first responder myself, and i literally have it on video. i just happened to be on a walk, so i -- >> do you want to speak to a supervisor. >> i've been recording this. >> i'm recording this right now and i'm willing to talk to them, if i need to talk to a supervisor right now or someone need to contact me later on. >> let me get you over to the supervisor, okay. happening on one second.
>> may 25, 202020. thank you, your honor. we would call genevieve hanson to the stand . >> please stand behind the chair. >> okay. >> that's fine. >> raise your right hand. >> do you swear or affirm on the penalty of perjury that the truth that you're about to get will be the truth and nothing but the truth. >> yes, sir.
>> have a seat. >> i ask that you remove your mask. >> okay. >> and let's begin by you giving your full name, spelling each of your names, please. >> my name is genevieve, genevieve hanson. last name hanson, hansen. >> go ahead. >> thank you, your honor. >> miss hansen, what's your current okay nation what do you do? >> i'm a firefighter for minneapolis city. >> thus the uniform you're wearing today. >> correct, sir. >> and how long have you been a phefert for the city of minneapolis? >> just about two years now. >> and so not a question i often like to ask women but how old are you? >> 27. >> 27. >> there's a reason that we ask you and the jury will figure that out later. >> okay. >> so for about two years now you've been a firefighter and can you describe for the jurors, you know, what you had to do to
become a firefighter for the city of minneapolis. >> i -- there's a hiring process, and once you're hired we go through an emt training. i certified for the state and a national license. and then you go forward with a firefighter license. that's a four-month academy. >> and so tell us well even before starting as a firefighter did you have to learn some first aid type? >> yeah, it wasn't necessarily done on the job but hi gone through an emt program already so i had gone through the course twice. >> okay. so when did you first do the emt program? >> i think it was sometime in
2017. >> and so what was that program? how long was that? >> it's called pathways academy, and it was a summer -- it was just the majority of the summer. i went to a fire station and did my course. >> and so that -- do you remember how long that was? was that four months, did you say? >> maybe about that? it wasn't every day so it depends on what you do. >> and what kind of things did you do during your work at pathways academy? >> we did a lot of -- the pathways academy is longer than your typical emt training because it really wants to give a chance to people to pass it. it's quite a difficult test so we did a lot of hands-on training and book work. >> and so the book work, what kinds of books were you learning
in that? >> probably more than you need to know about the anatomy and different bones and the way your heart works and then down to basic life-saving things that we need to know for -- for my job or if you wanted to move forward with paramedics. i could go on. >> so you have some classroom? >> wreck. >> and do you remember how long the classroom restriction was? >> i do. >> okay. >> i think it was like an eight-hour day or something like that. >> and then you have some more hands-on training. >> that was throughout the day. >> we'd have homework. >> so how long was the pathways academy all together? >> i think it was about three months or so. i can check. >> so then after the -- you have a day of classroom, is what do you spend the rest of the time doing.
>> studying. >> what's that? >> studying, yeah. >> and -- and so for them we -- >> we did quite a few ride-alongs as well with paramedics and with fire. >> so is this pathways academy affiliated with the fire department? >> it's -- i believe it's through the city of minneapolis. just for trying to reach out to city youth within the city. >> so that's a way of helping you get a job as a firefighter? >> yes. >> okay. >> and so then during that time you're doing some ride-alongs, you're actually working with the fire department? >> mm-hmm. >> i actually had a cardiac arrest on my first call and first ride-along. that was quite the sight. >> before you were even hired as a fire fighter? >> before i was hired as a firefighter, before i was an emt. >> and so then after pathways
academy, did you have to take a test of some kind? >> yes, i got -- that's when i got my national registry test finished. >> okay. and what -- describe -- if you would, describe for the jury what that test is like, how long is it? >> yeah. you go through a hands-on portion and then a written portion just to demonstrate that you are prepared for any life safety -- life-saving that you might need to take or splinting or, you know, it kind of covers all that have and then the test is really scenario-based, like what -- what are the first things you need to look at? what are the most important things that you need to address to have the best outcome for the patient? >> so is it written or is it -- >> oh, both. >> okay.
>> both. >> you mean the written part -- it's fill in the blank. >> right. >> so it's -- it's like written part, but is there also like showing that you know how to do certainty procedures. >> that's what i was plank before, hands-on portion. >> hands-on, thank you. so when you say both it's written and hands-on. >> several days, yes. >> so you took that test at the end. pathways academy program. >> yeah, and at the end of -- and in the middle of my academy for the fire department. >> okay. >> and so did you pass? >> yes. >> and so then you obtained a certification? >> um-hmm. >> is that yes? >> yes, sir. >> and what is the certification for? what does that mean you are? >> i -- i can -- there's a range of things i can do.
our role a lot of times is to assist the medics or we get there before the medics so we can, you know, start any basic wound bandaging or up, to you know, starting compressioned for working cpr right away. >> does it also involve assessing a patient and determining what is needed? >> correct. that's the first thing we would do. >> and then -- so you were certified as an emt and i guess just for the record what does emt stand for? >> emergency medical tech sgligs do you get certification for that? >> national and state. >> is it separate testing? >> yeah, i believe it's separate testing and we have continuous hours of education that for for -- for both. >> and so since your certification you've had to
continue taking classes to maintain the certification? >> yeah. the fire department does continuing education all year round. >> so then you -- when you finished pathways academy, had you already been hired by the fire department, or did that come after? >> that came about a year after i started the process. >> and then once you got hired, is that what you obtained the state certification then? >> i think i had both all along. the pathways is why i have both. >> okay. so as part of this certification you are able to do what we think of as cpr? >> right. >> hand that's -- well, explain for the jurors what cpr is when i use that term. >> so, if we find no pulse, we
would -- i would ask for medical, you know, calling 911. i would want an aed on scene and start compressions. if i had my med bag i would also be giving breaths, but if i didn't, just a rate of 100 compressions a minute. >> so cpr is the process of trying to resuscitate somebody? >> yeah. we're looking to regain a heart rhythm. >> and heart rhythm is another way of saying essentially a pulse. >> correct. >> you can tell i've not been through the training that you have. you know more about this than we do so that's why i'm just trying to fill in these terms. >> yeah. >> so incidentally before pathways academy had you received some training in cpr before that even? >>ia. i did a red cross baby-sitting.
>> work as a lifeguard ever? >> i was a lifeguard. >> so you've got to know that kind of stuff then, too? >> i did that quite a few times in my youth. >> let's make sure we don't talk over each other. it makes it really hard to have a good record. >> yeah, the court reporter has to take down everything that we're saying so each wait to answer. >> yeah. >> wait for the question to be done. i'll try to be better about that, too, so -- so when you start working for the fire department, explain, if you would, for the jury, when you go in for your shift, you know, not -- who are the core persons, not who they are, how many people are at a fire department during a shift and how are they divided up?
>> it depends on if you're a single house or a double house. is there an engine there or an engine and a ladder, and on the engine we have three to four and on the truck we rivaled four. so maybe eight in house and if there's a chief there or not and all emts, and so as a firefighter you mentioned earlier i think you received separate training on fighting fires? that makes sense, right? >> mm-hmm. they are different jobs >> so in your two years as a firefighter have you gone to fires? >> yeah, quite a few with somebody as much time as i have. >> and have i had to enter buildings that are on fire.
>> yes, sir. >> ant provide i guess recue for people who are in a billing that's on fire. yes, knife pulled victims out of buildings, and this you to that, when you're for or all the other firefighters that are there, you all work together on those calls. if your work as a firefighter, you know, the title obviously makes us think that you fight fires, but you do a lot more than that, correct? >> mm-hmm. >> you have to say yes or no. >> yeah. >> the thing to remember is the court reporter has to take it all down. >> right, sorry. yes. we -- we don't often get a fire. i would say, i mean, i've heard kuwait a people give like had a 90% medical calls and then that also depends on which station
and which part of the city you're serving. >> so whatever the -- the majority number of your cases are. >> yeah. >> on the medical calls that you've been working on in minneapolis, there have opinion times when you have had to provide resuscitation to someone who was hullsless? >> many times. >> have there been times when you've on on a call and you have had to assess a patient's condition and what they might need? >> many times. majority of the time we arrive before the paramedics just based on how many fire stations there are in the city, and that's why we respond to medical calls so we can assist them and/or be there if they can't be there immediately.
>> so incidentally you've talked about, you know, working at the fire station. your shift s.thereto a regular 9:00 to 5:00 job? how are your shifts done? >> personally my shifts are 48 hours, so i'm -- there's also the option of working 24 hours at a time but i'm at the fire station for 48 hours and calls in the middle of the night? and then you get a weekend or something. i have four days offal after that. so in your experience how many times like per shift would i say that you have a medical calling involving an unconscious or pulseless person. >> it really depends on which station you're at. i'm at a particularly busy station so it could be anywhere
from, you know -- for pullsless, i'm in an area where there's a lot of overdosing so anywhere from one to five times in a 24-hour period. >> so dealing with a person who does not have a pulse is fairly common? >> yeah. correct. >> i want to draw your attention to may 25th of 2020. so at that point you had been working as a firefighter for over a little more than a year? >> mm-hmm. >> is that yes? >> yes. >> and were you in the area of cup foods at 38th and chicago? >> yes, sir. >> and were you working that day? >> nope. >> and, you know, without telling us where you live, you
live in that area? >> mm-hmm. yes, i'm in walking distance that have area. >> okay. and so on that date in the early evening, you know, what were you out doing that you found yourself in that area? >> i was just going for a walk. i -- i believe i worked the day before so a lot of times you're just kind of tired and i just wanted to sort of have a peaceful day, so i went on a walk and i sat in a little community guarden on 38th for a while and thought it would be dark soon so i decided to go.
>> were you on foot? >> yes. >> so you approached cup food on chicago? >> yes, sir. >> as you were approaching that area, did something catch your attention? >> mm-hmm. it's not uncommon to see, you know, lights and things and think that my co-workers are there, so from a distance i figured, you know, it could have been anything, but i figured that fire was there so i -- so i started walking that direction, and as i got closer there was a woman across the street screaming that they were killing him so that's when i was alerted that the situation wasn't a basic medical call. >> so at some point did you walk through the area where this woman was? >> yes. i actually asked her what was going on. >> and then from there did you
notice some police cars in the area? >> mm-hmm. >> yes? >> yes, sir. >> and did you then walk over to that area where the police cars were? >> i walked -- >> police car. >> i walked kind of in a big circle around the scene just to sort of start to have an idea of what was actually going on. >> and so you approached this police car where the incident was taking place? >> yeah. i came from behind the officers. >> and i'm going to show you exhibit 1 on the screen. >> okay. >> it should come up on the screen right in front of you. >> okay. >> is that in evidence? >> yes, it's been admitted already. >> yes. >> and this is the intersection of 38th and chicago? >> yes. >> and you'll notice in front of
you there should be a little stylus like this. >> okay. and you can actually draw on the screen with that. >> okay. >> and i would ask you to kind of draw on there for the jury, your approach to this area and where you went until you went over to the squad car. >> okay. >> so the garden was on this side of the street. i'm not sure if i walked across or straight, but the woman that i first asked what was going on was just about here, so i made my way around, and i believe i came all the way around this way and i was kind of watching what was going on here and then i made my way around. >> and then just for the benefit of the record that you're
drawing that you're going westbound on 38th and then crossed over to the dragon walk side of 38 and that's where you crossed chicago and crossed 38th to the speedway store and then crossed over to the cup food side of chicago. >> yes, sir. >> your honor, can you erase that all in one fell sloop, and then -- so when you crossed from the speed war side of the store -- well, let me do it this way. no, i'll back up why did you bother to walk from the speedway smid of the store? >> because i was concerned to
see a handcuffed man what was not moving with officers with their hole body wait on his back and a crowd that it was -- that was stressed out. >> this is a video taken from a camera across the street, and i'm going to show you a shortened version of exhibit 11, all right? >> um-hmm. >> is that yes? >> yes. >> all right. and for the record we are starting this at 8:25.20 approximately. so do you see that video on the screen?
>> yes. >> all right. and does this look like, you know, the area that we are talking about where you went and approached this -- >> yes. >> i'm asking to pause it rioux here. >> yes, and looking at this, do you see this person that i'm circling here? >> that's myself, and if everybody was seeing you approval from down here, correct? you came this way, is that correct? >> correct. >> so you came from the bottom of this screen and you seem to be holding something into your hand. do you recall what you were holding? >> i didn't have anything but my phone i believe or my keys. >> and so what i would like to do is let this run to show where you were during this incident, so many just keeping an eye on
now, if we can pause it right here. and for the record it's 8:26.29. we saw the camera move a little bit. >> yes. >> so for a moment there you were just off screen, correct? >> correct. >> and up until that point you had essentially remained on the sidewalk, correct? >> correct. >> and at that point you stepped off the curb. did you -- how far from the curb did you go while you were off the screen? >> i don't remember. >> okay. >> you didn't leave the area? >> no. >> and at that moment you go back up on to the sidewalk, do you remember why you went back up on to the sidewalk? >> because the officer controlling the scene was requesting that we stay on the sidewalk, demanding that we stay on the sidewalk. >> and if you could just take the stylus and circle the officer that you're saying to stay on the sidewalk, and for the record, your honor, the witness is drug a circle around
>> i'm going to ask that the video be paused here and for the record at 8:30:25.26 to be more precise. the video has shown that the ambulance has left with mr. floyd, and you're still standing there on the sidewalk, correct? >> correct. >> so during that time period after you first arrived and went up on the sidewalk there was just that one time that you left the sidewalk and went out into the street, correct? >> correct. >> when you first walked up you told the jury with coming around and approaching. when you first walked up did you
observe the officers that were on top of the individual on the ground? >> yes. >> did you know any of those officers or recognize any of them? >> once i was all the way around i recognized chauvin's face. >> okay. >> and where did you recognize it from? >> it's probably a call the day before. i believe it was the shift i had just worked. >> did you know him at all? >> no, sir. >> did you talk to him on that previous call? >> no, sir. >> i had observed him on that previous call? >> did you know his name at that point in time? >> no, sir. >> all right. >> so what did you see about the officers there in relation to the body on the ground?
>> i noticed -- i noticed that the officers were leaning across his body, and it -- it appeared to be the majority of their weight on mr. floyd. >> and so how many officers did you see over mr. floyd? >> in my memory for whatever reason i remember seeing four on his body and we know now that that was three. >> so when you first walked up, you came around from that side but then you had to go around the other side on to the squad car, direct? >> correct. >> and when you saw that positioning of those officers did that concern you? >> absolutely. >> why? >> he wasn't moving and he was
cuffed and that's -- three grown men is a lot of putting weight on somebody. it's too much. >> and did you notice where this officer you now know to be mr. chauvin, where he was putting his weight on mr. floyd? >> on his neck. >> and incidentally did you know the person laying on the ground, person on the ground who was handcuffed? >> no, not -- no, sir. >> you subsequently learned his identity? >> correct. >> and. >> that individual on the ground with the overs, could you tell if he was moving at all? >> i -- he was not moving. his face was -- the first thing that concerned me is his face
was like smushed into the ground, swollen appearing, it appeared swollen to me. >> and, you know, at that point are you acting a little bit as genevieve hansen emt? >> i identified myself right away because i -- i noticed that he needed medical attention. it didn't take me long to realize that he was -- that he had an altered level of consciousness, and in our training that is when -- the first time that somebody needs medical attention, so my attention moved from mr. floyd to how can i gain access to this patient and give him medical attention or direct the officers and i didn't pay much attention to george floyd after that. >> so when you first got there and you saw mr. floyd on the ground, you mentioned about
seeing his face, correct? >> correct. >> and incidentally i think in a subsequent interview you had talked about mr. floyd's face facing towards the speedway which is what my memory did and we know that's not right. >> now as we sit here today do you remember seeing his face when you were around on the squad car side of him. >> yes, sir. >> so in terms his face when you were first there or even the rest of him, what is it that you saw that made you concerned about his medical needs? >> i was really can concerned about -- i thought i his face looked pitch and swollen which would happen if you were putting a grown man's weight on someone's neck. i noticed some fluid coming from what hooked like george floyd's
body, and in a lot of cases we see a patient release their bladder when they die. i can't tell you exactly where the flow was coming from but that's where my mind went. he wasn't moving. he was being retrained but he wasn't moving. >> when you first arrived, was he vocalizing at all? was he speaking at all? >> i don't remember. >> okay. >> and earlier you used the term altered cautiousness. >> mm-hmm. >> is that yes? >> yes. >> and what do you mean by that? what did you see in terms of his consciousness? >> well, we. when we're assessing a level of cautiousness on a call we'll often first try to just talk to the patient and see if they respond, and if we don't get a
response we'll often kind of tap him on the shoulder or apply painful stimuli and often i would do a sternal rub or, you know, press their fingernail very hard and if they respond to that we know that, you know, we can assess their level of consciousness based on that. when somebody is laying on you, you,000 know, leaning into your neck that's painful stimuli so i could tell that from the side. >> tell what stwh. >> that he had an altered level of consciousness to the level that he wasn't responding to painful stimuli. >> you mention that had mr. chauvin had a knee on mr. floyd's neck. >> correct. >> did you see where his other leg was? >> i don't remember anymore, but
i think -- i may have said something about it in previous -- >> did you think it was on mr. floyd's back? i don't know. >> okay. >> and in that moment that you first arrived, observed what you could about mr. floyd, what can you think you needed to do? >> i -- i had already assess that had he had an altered level of consciousness. what i need to know is whether or not he had a pulse anymore. >> let me back up again. did you try it assess how much weight mr. chauvin was putting on george floyd? >> i at any time try to. i recognized that it was an issue right away because he seemed very comfortable. >> who is he?
>> chauvin, officer chauvin. >> okay. seemed very comfortable with the majority of his weight balanced on top of mr. floyd's neck. in my memory he had his hand in his pocket he looked so comfortable. >> and -- and if his hand wasn't actually in his pocket, would that change anything that you assessed at the time? >> i suppose not. he -- he was comfortable in the position that he was in? >> so if his hand instead of being in his pocket was simply resting on his thigh works that change any of your assessment? >> he wasn't distributing the weight on the car, on the pavement. >> when you first approached you said you identified yourself as a firefighter. >> correct. >> to whom did you identify
yourself? >> to officer thao. i spoke loudly enough that i think the other three officers would have been able to hear me. >> and we know you weren't -- let me ask you this way. >> how did officer thao respond? >> he said something along the lines of if you really are a minneapolis firefighter, you would know better than to get involved. >> what did you think of that? >> first, i was worried that he wasn't going to believe me. and not let me help, and i also -- that's not right. i mean, that's exactly what i should have done. there was no medical assistance on scene and i got there and i could have given medical assistance. that's exactly what i should have done. >> so based on your training and experience and what you had
seen, what did you want to do for this person on the ground? >> had they let me into the scene, i -- i already had decided what his level of consciousness was so i would have examined additional help. the i would have wanted someone to call 911 for the paramedics and fire to come. i would have asked someone to run to the gas station and look for any e.d., and i would have checked his -- i would have checked his airway. i would have been worried about his -- a spinal cord injury because he had so much weight on his neck. i would have opened his airway to check for any obstructions, and i would have checked for a pulse, and when i didn't found a pulse, in that was the case, i would have started compressions,
and i didn't have my beg so i would have continued compressions. we don't give mouth-to-mouth anymore so i would have continued compressions at the rate of 100 a minute until help arrived. >> and by compressions, what do you mean. >> i would have put my hands -- stacked my hands and pressed hits chest. >> chest compressions. >> chest compressions, correct. >> and what's the point of doing chest compressions. >> pumping -- pumping the blood for somebody that's not doing that themselves, trying to get a pulse back. >> and were you able to do that, any of those steps? >> no, sir. >> why weren't you able to do any of that? >> because the officers didn't let me in to the scene. i also offered -- in my memory i
offered to kind of walk them through that or told them if he doesn't have a pulse you need to start compressions, and that wasn't done either. >> and so when -- well, is this -- are these things that you wanted to do? >> it would -- it's what i would have done for anybody. >> when you couldn't do that, how did that make you feel? >> totally distressed. >> were you frustrated? >> yes. >> miss hansen, you know, as i told you, you can take your time so feel free to just take a minute. if you need a drink of water, go ahead.
okay . while you were there were there other people around you on the sidewalk. >> yes. >> and were they saying things to the officers as well? >> yes? >> and do you remember what kinds of things they were saying? >> no, i was pretty focused on trying to get the officers to let me help. >> and how were you doing that, trying to get officers to focus on you and getting help. >> i think in my memory i tried different tactics of calm and reasoning. i tried to be assertive.
>> i pled and was desperate. >> did you also at some point start raising your voice? >> yes, sir. >> and maybe used some foul language even? >> yes, sir. >> why? >> because i was desperate to help and i wasn't getting what i -- what i needed to do in gaining access. >> at some point the voices of the other people around you, did you feel that sort of interfered with getting the officer's attention? >> yes. >> so as you're doing that, were you able to pay more attention to mr. floyd and his condition? >> i wasn't -- i wasn't really able to. i knew he needed help so at that point it was just getting in there
. >> when you asked the officers to take his pulse, did you ever see them doing that? >> no. >> when you were over on the sidewalk at officer thao's direction were you able to see the other two officers of mr. floyd? >> from my memory just kind of their heads. >> so at some point they may have checked a pulse you may not have seen that. >> correct. during this time did you make any notes or observations about mr. floyd's characteristics of his breathing? that was a terrible question. do you want me to start over? >> yes, sir. >> during the incident when you were there, did you make some observations of sort of the characteristics of mr. floyd's breathing that concerned you? >> i don't remember anymore?
>> okay. what is term meant by the terms agonal breathe or agonal breaths? >> we see those in patients that are dying or pretty much ted. it's just kind of the body's -- forgive me. i don't quite now, but it's a sign of death. >> and have you seen that in other calls when you've been working? >> yes. >> and did you see something similar in mr. floyd. >> i don't remember anymore okay. >> so during that time period. he did not regain consciousness that you saw? >> no. and you stayed with him, or i'