tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 13, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
minnesota the question is what will the next few hours bring? will people here make of a full day of developments in the wake of the killing of daunte wright. a number of protesters scaled a fence holding a banner reading justice for daunte wright and chanted what's his name? say his name. daunte wright. they've since climbed down. unclear what happens next. already kim potter, the police veteran who fired the deadly shot, has quit the force and could learn whether she'll be criminally charged or not as soon as tomorrow. the chief of police stepped down and the city manager has been fired. members of the minnesota national guard are on the scene in brooklyn center and parts of minneapolis and st. paul and as if to underscore the degree to which the area has become an epicenter of the current crisis of policing, race, and justice, members of daunte wright's familied me with george floyd's family. a sign of the times. president biden spoke to the moment with members of the congressional black caucus. >> daunte wright in minnesota god awful shooting and resulting
in his death, and the midst of a ongoing trial of the killing of george floyd. lord only knows what happened based on what the verdict will or will not be. >> the vice president also spoke at a round table on black maternal health and was blunt in her assessment. >> before we get started, i do want to address the killing of daunte wright. he should be alive today. to his family and loved ones, you must know that the president and i grieve with you as the nation grieves his loss and we stand with you. our nation needs justice and healing. and law enforcement must be held to the highest standards of accountability. at the same time, we know that folks will keep dying if we don't fully address racial injustice and inequities in our country.
>> former president and michelle obama also spoke out today releasing a statement that reads in part our hearts are heavy over yet another shooting of a black man, daunte wright at the hands of police. the fact this could happen even as the city of minneapolis is going through the trial of derek chauvin and reliving the heart wrenching murder of george floyd indicates not just how important it is to conduct a full and transparent investigation, but also just how badly we need to reimagine policing in public safety in this country. we'll talk about that tonight with our legal and law enforcement team. we'll also bring you the latest in the derek chauvin trial, day one for the defense but testimony under cross-examination from a key witness that might have been more useful to the prosecution. first, though, before we go live to brooklyn center a reminder what set off the chain of events, anger and grieving when a police stop turned fatal for daunte wright. as always, a warning. it's tough to watch no matter where you stand on the issues.
>> i'll tase you. i'll tase you. taser, taser, taser! holy [ bleep ] i just shot him. >> cnn's miguel marquez is in brooklyn center and he joins us now. miguel, what is the latest on the ground? >> well, there is several hundred protesters that came out so if you give people a look at what is happening here. this is the area near brooklyn center police department. i'll give you a second. and listen to people as they chant. ♪ is guilty as hell, the whole damn system is guilty as hell. >> it is an blood alcohol stunning scene out here. it's a driving snow, nearly a blizzard. people have only showed up in bigger numbers at this point. they marched from the police station in brooklyn center down
to the federal building. the department of justice, fbi building about a block away and we're winding through the streets of this neighborhood, and they are going to eventually go back to the brooklyn center police station. i can tell you that a ton of extra security showed up today in the form of individuals, big trucks ferrying personnel from the national guard. so they are on alert for this, as well, but if i can just say this has been such a heart wrenching moving, sad, angry protest today over the latest killing of a young man at the hands of police even if it is an accident, even if the police officer resigned, the anger here is palpable. people are tired of it. the deaths are part of what they are concerned of. it's the attitude of policing towards african americans and
people of color generally and everyday occurrences that all of this has brought back and they are just sick and tired and fed up with it and this is the result. i'll let you listen to a bit more. >> shut it down! shut it down! shut it down! shut it down! >> reporter: anderson, just a very moving moment here given they basically have a blizzard coming down on them. >> miguel, have you been hearing much reaction from community members in the wake of the news that the officer kim potter and the police chief have both resigned and that we may see a charging decision by tomorrow? >> reporter: yeah, look, they're happy they resigned but they'd like to see them fired. there may be many reasons you just can't fire a police officer given certain laws but those are also things that many want to
have addressed. they have resigned but for many it's not enough. they want them fired and they want them to lose their pension and not work again and they want general police change. you can't have these incidents without some sort of accountability in the system. the washington county district attorney who now has the case for daunte wright, he says that he may have charges as early as tomorrow but he also warns that there is a ton of documentation he has received. he's trying to work through it all but by tomorrow he may have some charges. there is also move from the mayor of brooklyn center and other places to try to have the state step in. that the state attorney general step in and conduct the investigation and possibly bring charges like the chauvin situation. anderson? >> miguel marquez, appreciate it. joining us is jonathan mason who mentored daunte wright in high school and owns a consulting firm that provides cultural
competency to teachers dealing with minority and at risk youth. jonathan, thank you so much for being here. i'm so sorry it's under these circumstances. you mentored daunte when he was in high school. you said your heartbroken over his death. what was he like? >> he was an amazing kid, anderson. i want to thank you for letting me come on and tell my story. daunte was an amazing kid. he had a ray of sunshine that came from him. everybody looked up to him as far as individual within the school. he always brought a certain type of joy and spunk to him, and that's what drawed me to him right away and me and him kicked it off right away, and i wanted to help him become a basketball player within minneapolis so i fought to get him on the basketball team. we were working on getting his homework done and we'd talk about these type of things so
i found out -- it's crazy, anderson, that fight or justice, i've been fighting for justice within minneapolis, minnesota for ten years. and i was at another event for a person who was killed by the st. paul police, and i was getting calls from my uncles and everybody who was in the general vicinity and said another boy has been shot. so i rushed over there immediately, not knowing it was daunte. and i seen his mother, and i was thinking oh, she looks familiar, but i was just saying how could this happen? no justice, no peace. who is in charge right now? and then all of the kids from edison started messaging me and saying you know that's daunte who you used to hang out with at the school and mentor and help. and mason, do you know what is going on? i was trying to tell them and it hit me and my heart was in my stomach and i was like this is daunte wright and it made me sick instantly when i found out. >> had you had conversations with him about police?
i believe we have a transmission -- we're having some transmission issues. we'll try to get jonathan mason back. perspective from our law enforcement team, andrew mccabe, former d.c. police chief charles ramsey. currently teaches at drexel university. and former federal prosecutor laura coates. so laura, we learned earlier today the washington county prosecutor hopes to have a charging decision for officer potter by tomorrow. what do you expect her to be charged with? or do you expect her to be charged? >> well, if anything, i was going to say if anything, it would be based on partially the statements made by that police chief who has now resigned. i was a little surprised that the police chief made a conclusion at that press conference. my immediate thought was well, that will be factored in by the
prosecution in this particular case, knowing that we have to judge things normally by the supreme court standard by the reasonableness use of force as speck aspect of it. the reasonableness use of force aspect of it and what other officers are saying so they already planted the seed in the mind of the prosecutor but it does not foreclose prosecution because you have a whole body of law based on negligent homicide and as long as you are negligent, you could appreciate a risk or you acted in a way that disregarded something that was a known risk that will be factored in and remember a taser and gun, there have been precautions that have been set up to avoid this mistake and so to look into these things. it will eerily track of what we've already learned in the chauvin trial, though, anderson. >> yesterday the medical examiner ruled mr. wright's death a homicide. in the video you hear the officer saying "taser, taser, taser." she clearly thought she was holding a taser or that's what it would seem to indicate and immediately after the shooting you hear her saying an expletive and saying with some surprise in
her voice, "i shot him." do you think charges will be filed and if so, what? >> i think it's entirely possible, anderson. let's remember that the medical examiner's conclusion that mr. wright's death was a homicide, that just simply means i was an intentional killing. it was the result of an intentional act. he doesn't get into whether that act was a mistake or whether it was reasonable. it's just a medical determination. as far as the police officer goes, there are, you know, any number of ways that this could be seen as having been negligent or reckless in terms of her deployment of the pistol instead of the taser as laura mentioned, there is a lot of facts that will go into that determination. whether or not she had the taser in the right place on her belt. whether or not she compiled with her training, things of that nature but it is certainly possible that a -- the prosecutor and the grand jury
could determine there was probable cause to believe she may be committed in a reckless or negligent homicide. >> chief ramsey, you spoke about this last night and i think it bears repeating that in the wake of another case in oakland in which some -- an officer said they thought they were using their taser and was actually using their gun on somebody, police departments around the country had officers ordered that their tasers be on the of opposite side of where their guns were. is that clear to you that was the case this officer had her taser where it was supposed to be? >> well, i couldn't see it from the video shown but there is a flash at one point when she's reaching in the car if you notice to her right, there is another officer and you can see yellow. that yellow is the handle of the taser. the taser not only feels different and looks different but the coloring of it. you can get it in black but most departments get the taser in either a bright yellow or bright
green. again, making the distinction between the two. i've watched that video several times and it just looks to me like as she's walking toward mr. wright as he's struggling with the officer, you can see both her hands as she reaches in to try to assist and then her hands disappear. it looks like she reached down and grabbed her weapon, maybe she thought she had her taser but when she fired, i don't think it was intentional, but it doesn't matter. the result is the same and not only that, there was a passenger in the car. if that had been a through and through wound, then it would have struck the passenger, as well. so there was several tactical errors that were made during the entire stop. there is a whole lot of things that are wrong with this particular situation. >> and laura, the intention of the officer, how much does that matter? >> i was going to say, i don't as a prosecutor, i don't make
assumptions of innocence although there say presumption of innocence in this country. one of the things you have to do is assume even if everything they told you is true, you can equally assume everything they told you is not true as you're investigating it. and you do have a body of law in minnesota, as we're seeing, unintentional based homicide case, unintentional murder, where you need not intend to actually kill the person, but if you intend to perform the act that leads to the death or causes grave bodily harm, it is considered the same. that's one of the charges by the way that derek chauvin faced, an idea of unintentional second-degree murder in the case. in this instance, why i mentioned the statement of the police chief. the prosecutor can obviously weigh that assessment of an accident but they can also look at this and say are there other factors involved here that could demonstrate it was not an accident? that somehow it was an unreasonable assumption or too unreasonable to conclude the officer was actually holding a taser as opposed to a handgun or
vice versa. the steps leading from the time that that officer was behind the vehicle approached mr. wright and intervened into what was going to be a handcuff and possibly a fleeing vehicle, all of that gets factored in and finally, anderson, remember. the supreme court back in 1985 in a case called garner talked about how an officer is not entitled to use a certain amount of force or deadly force obviously to deal with a fleeing suspect who poses no direct harm to himself, the officers, or others. that same use of force continuum will have to be contemplated by the prosecution in any e evaluation of this case as well. >> in terms of the prosecutor hoping to have charges or a charging decision on the police officer involved on wednesday, what goes into that process? >> well, it surprises me they expect to have some sort of a resolution of that process tomorrow because typically, it takes a little bit longer. in most jurisdictions, any law
enforcement shooting has to be presented to the grand jury so that takes time to get in front of a grand jury to have relevant witnesses testify to put whatever information about the incident you want the grand jurors to consider, and then of course the grand jurors vote as to whether or not to return an indictment. so i'm a little surprised that they believe they can conclude that whole process by tomorrow, but i guess we'll have to wait and see. >> chief ramsey, lastly, both the chief of police and officer resigned today. were you surprised the chief of police resigned? >> i was a little surprised he resigned but then when i heard the press conference, it was clear he lost the confidence of the elected leaders and once that happens, being a police chief is tough enough. if you have no political support from your mayor or city manager, what have you, you may as well step down because there is no way you're going to survive. so, he did what was probably in his best interest at the time. i wasn't surprised the officer
resigned. there has to be an enormous amount of pressure on both of them at the time. so, you know, the resignations weren't all that surprising although i really didn't think the chief would step down this soon. but if i can just very quickly, resignations and firings of one or two people is not going to make a difference. there say serious problem in policing right now and a systemic in nature and we have to address it and stop believing fire this guy, fire this guy, charge that one will make a difference. we have to take a real hard look at policing. i think president biden is making a mistake by not dealing with this up front by thinking congress is going do it. our congress can't do anything right now. >> so somebody who has been involved in policing most of your life, you want to see, you think, something fund mental fundamental needs to change? >> yeah, there is no question in my mind. but you have to look at the entire criminal justice system. this isn't just a policing
problem. it's bigger than just police. but police are as good a place as any to start. i was on a conference call with eric holder, the former ag. and he said something that really stuck with me, and that is we have to stop saying there is just a few bad apples. if you walk by an orchard and see a lot of bad apples on the ground, at some point you have to look at the tree and call an arborist or something because there's something wrong with the tree. it's not just bad apples. so the majority of people in our profession are good, hardworking people. but we have some folks who have no business being in policing, and we better face it and we better deal with it, or else this is going happen over and over and over again. >> charles ramsey, andrew mcskab, laura coates, thank you. up next, day one from the defense in the derek chauvin child and the ad mission about the force used against george floyd. and later, there is breaking news that could spell even more trouble for congressman matt gaetz.
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as we look at live pictures of protesters from brooklyn center just outside minneapolis, it's worth remembering the context, an area already raw from the killing of george floyd and reliving it all in the trial of the former police officer charged with floyd's murder. today the defense began its case. details from omar jimenez. >> reporter: the beginning of the defense's case for former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin offered jurors the first expert witness to definitively defend chauvin's actions. >> i felt that derek chauvin was justified, was acting with objective reasonableness following minneapolis police department policy and current standards of law enforcement in his interactions with mr. floyd. >> reporter: a use of force consultant saying the officers could have a used more force
when he resisted. >> i felt that derek chauvin was justified acting with objective reasonableness following minneapolis police department policy and current standards of >> but during prosecution, prosecutors pushed back, specifically on the length of time of the use of force, asking if the same situational awareness that an officer might use to monitor a crowd should also be used to monitor a suspect's medical condition. >> particularly if they're exhibiting signs of distress. if they're exhibiting signs of distress? >> yes. >> at times growing tense. >> the defendant did not alter the use of force. >> no. >> even though he had become compliant, fair? >> more compliant, yes. >> what part of this is not compliant?
>> so i see his arm position in the picture that's posted. >> right. a compliant person would have both their hands in the small of their back and resting comfortably versus he is still moving around. >> did you say resting comfortably? >> or laying comfortably. >> resting comfortably on the pavement? >> yes. >> reporter: some of testimony tuesday went into george floyd's past. >> put him up on the dash. >> reporter: including a portion of a 2019 arrest in which the judge allowed because it was similar to the deadly 2020 continue fragrance, confrontation by police followed by a rapid ingestion of drugs. so he told you he had taken a pill at the time the officers were apprehending him? >> correct. >> reporter: the paramedic who recommended floyd go to the hospital that day was called by the defense, focusing on drugs taken then and the high blood pressure recorded. >> did you record what his blood pressure was at that time? >> yes. it was 216 over 160.
>> he didn't have his truck while you were with him? >> no. >> he was the never given narcan? >> correct. >> he didn't stop breathing. >> no. >> his heart didn't stop. >> no. >> he didn't go into cardiac arrest? >> no. >> he didn't go into a coma? >> no. and omar jimenez joins us now from brooklyn center. given the situation the past couple of night, has the judge made any announcements to the jury? >> he has, anderson. and it's actually been a point of concern, at least for the defense attorneys in this and specifically the judge. when court was dismissed today, the judge told the jurors, one, have a good night and also don't talk to anyone and don't watch the news. he wants thome stay as focused on the derek chauvin trial as much as they can, even though it is clear to see it is a very tense minneapolis area in total. and this is actually the exact thing the defense was initially worried about. a day ago, they asked the judge if they could sequester the jury
now, just because of how big the news has gotten surrounding, of course, the shooting and killing of daunte wright at the hands of police. and especially as we are now seeing curfews going into effect at night. and it just makes it a little bit more difficult to avoid. and there are fears that it could creep into the jurors' ability to judge that case. for now the judge says the jurors can know that case is different from this one, and on we go to closing arguments, potentially on monday. and then they would be sequestered as they deliberate over a verdict. >> omar jimenez, appreciate the reporting. thank you very much, omar. antonio raminucci along with george floyd's cuz and good to see you again. thanks for being with us. last week when we spoke you said your were pessimistically optimistic about a conviction. i wonder how you're doing now, how the floyd family is doing in general as the defense starts to present its side.
>> well, i think my feelings are pretty much still the same. i think that the prosecution did a tremendous job today of backing the expert witness out of his testimony that he did not feel it was excessive force being used. so i thought that was very good, but my position is pretty much still the same just because i don't have the ability to know what the thoughts are in the minds of each of the jurors. >> yeah. and which is of course, what it really comes down to in this trial. tony, do you think the defense, tony, accomplished what they set out to do today in the interview because you heard in omar's report, the prosecution seemed to dismantle the use of force expert's testimony or poked some pretty big holes in it. >> so, if we remember what this case is about, it's about whether or not there was use of force, whether or not it was excessive and whether that use
of force which was excessive caused death. i think if we always default back to the video, anderson, i think if we use common sense, we see that there was an excessive use of force, which caused death. the prosecution today in their cross-examination i think was able to establish that. i mean, i think this witness came off a little incredible when he was saying, you know, things like george was resting comfortably on the street and even if there was a reasonable use of force, i think he lost credibility with that. the prosecution did a great job on the cross-examination and whatever he was said, whatever he said on direct exam, i think was muted out by the excellent cross. >> to be focused on this trial as you and your family have been and then to have in brooklyn center this shooting and a killing, a death occur, what has
been that like to have that -- have yet another person die while this trial is going on? >> yeah, well, first of all, my deepest condolences to the wright family. it's unbelievable to think that something in such close vicinity of the same place that george was murdered for it to happen again is just really difficult to even process at this point. >> tony, do you expect -- i mean, in a normal case, the defendant would be very unlikely to take the stand. do you think derek chauvin is going to end up taking the stand? >> it hard to really know what he's going to do but if i read tea leaves and after hearing the testimony today, i would say derek chauvin will not take the stand. i don't know that eric nelson wants to take the chance of a cross-examination of his client.
you saw the prosecution did a good job today on the cross exam of the expert. i'd be a little fearful putting up derek chauvin and watching that cross exam. this expert today that the defense put up essentially said everything derek chauvin would say. i'm going to bet that we're not going to see derek chauvin testify. i could be wrong but that's my bet today. >> legal strategy aside on a human level, do you at some point want to hear from derek chauvin? >> not necessarily. i mean, in the clip that they showed where he was actually speaking with mr. mcmillan where he basically said, you know, i think mr. mcmillan was saying that he thought he was on george for too long or something and he said that's your opinion is pretty much, i mean, that was enough for me.
i really doesn't need to hear anything else from him. >> charita tate, appreciate you. up and tony romanucci as well. up next, breaking news on florida congressman matt gaetz and more about an associate of his. i'll talk to a reporter next. . the fast way to bring it up to speed. is scotts turf builder rapid grass. rapid grass is a revolutionary mix of seed and fertilizer that will change the way you grow grass. it grows two times faster than seed alone for full, green grass in just weeks. after growing grass this fast, everything else just seems... slow. it's lawn season. let's get to the yard. download the scotts my lawn app today for your personalized lawn plan.
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we're continuing to monitor developments in brooklyn center, minnesota where protesters are still gathering after the police shooting of a black man meanwhile there is breaking news tonight on that federal investigation whether florida congressman matt gaetz broke federal sex trafficking prosecution laws. and "the new york times" says a one-time associate of the congressman and local florida official named joel greenberg has been providing authorities with information about gaetz and actstiveties since last year. gaetz has consistently denied all the allegations against him. joining me are the "new york times", chief political -- sorry, we just lost our guest. having technical problems. gloria borger is here to save the day. chief political analyst. gloria, thanks so much for being with us. >> as always. >> there is this reporting from "the new york times" about cooperation between this matt gaetz congressman gaetz associate said to be cooperating with the justice department except for congressman adam kinzinger, republicans have been largely quiet when it comes to commenting on gaetz' future.
no one really wants to weigh in on this. marco rubio when asked whether he backs gaetz said i don't know anything about the case. you can only keep that up for so long. >> right. and look, i think when i hear marco rubio, it takes me back a few years to hearing republicans over and over again say oh, i i didn't read that tweet by donald trump, i don't know much about this, i can't really comment on it. the irony is that matt gaetz is not a popular person on capitol hill. they don't like him. but donald trump has been sort of tepid in his response to this whole gaetz thing, saying he is denying, denying, denying, and what is being played out here is the trump playbook that effectively republicans have learn you'd can deny anything until there is some disposition one way or other in the justice department case. so republicans are hanging back.
the only person who called the charges sickening is liz cheney of wyoming and she wouldn't comment any further but you'll recall that gaetz went to her district to campaign against her after she said that donald trump should be out of office. >> and "new york times" reporter katy benner, who shares the byline on the story, she joins us now. you and your colleagues at "the times" said this former associate joel greenberg who is an interesting character in his own right has been talking to investigators since last year. what else have you learned? >> one of the reasons he's a person of interest is because his lawyer indicated very recently, as did the prosecutors that he would begin the process of a cooperation agreement and pleaing to plead guilty and get some sort of leniency from the government. what we learned is he's actually been cooperating with investigators since december giving information about people including mr. gaetz.
what's interesting about this is it remains to be seen whether the information he has given is good or not, whether the prosecutors can trust him. and that trust is going to go a long way to determining whether this deal actually finally comes together in the end and gets anything from the government. >> so, does he have a plea deal or has this cooperation not yet a plea deal? >> the cooperation is not yet a plea deal. what investigators were doing and been doing basically since the end of last year is determine whether or not the things that joel greenberg tells them are true, whether they can be backed up or whether he's lying to them. if you look at mr. greenberg's history and the things that he's been indicted to, the idea that he would lie to a prosecutor is not out of this world. it's something that if he did choose to do in those months before the idea of a plea really came into focus, it would hurt his chances of getting a plea deal. it could get him into deeper hot water. it would be interesting to see whether or not prosecutors feel he gave them good information. the plea deal whether or not it
happens we'll know in mid may. that's the date set by the judge. >> katy, joel greenberg's attorney last week said he was sure congressman gaetz was not feeling very confident. how much legal trouble is congressman gaetz in potentially? >> that's a really interesting statement by mr. greenberg's lawyer. certainly it implies greenberg has given prosecutors and fbi a lot of information on mr. gaetz but not even his lawyer can be certain he's telling the truth. if you look at mr. greenberg's extremely colorful history, to your point, this is a man who threatened a political opponent, stalked a political opponent, lied about whether this person molested a child, stole information from the local government at the tax office. and while he was on bail, proceeded to defraud the government emergency lending program. so it's clear that he is a witness who could be key to the government investigation but could also be very troubled. >> and gloria, congressman gaetz who certainly has an interesting
choice in friends was denied a meeting with the former president last week. he's been uncharacteristically quiet about gaetz with the exception of a statement saying the congressman never asked him for a pardon. i mean, gaetz could not have shown more to the president? >> the operative word there in donald trump's statement is "never asked me for a pardon" because the reporting is that he approached other people about a preemptive pardon for lots of republicans. and gaetz was sort of the original groupie, loyalist to donald trump, did whatever donald trump wanted. as i said before, went to wyoming to rant about liz cheney because she thought the president should be removed from office. but i think gaetz's instinct right now is to just deny, deny, deny, just like donald trump
deny, deny, denies, and hang in there until we know something one way or another. and as long as donald trump doesn't bother him and sort of hangs back because his staff is worried about it and they don't want him to get involved in this i'm told, as long as donald trump isn't out there attacking him, he probably figures he can survive one way or another. >> yeah, gloria borger, katie benner, thank you so much. coming up next, the decision to suspend the use of johnson & johnson's one-shot covid vaccine after a serious side effect comes to light in just a small number of cases. given how rare the problem is and how deadly covid is, is the decision the right one. should you be concerned if you got the shot or relieved? we'll ask the surgeon general and our own dr. sanjay gupta when we come right back.
there is new reporting this as the white house is scrambling to maintain confidence in vaccines in the nation's vaccine roll-out after a surprise recommendation from the cdc and fda led to a pause in the johnson & johnson vaccine criticized for being made too quickly. the agency say there are six reported cases of a rare and severe blood clot involving women between the ages of 18 and
48 who received the vaccine. one of the women has died and another is in critical condition. the fda and the cdc stress however that these six reported cases are out of more than 6.8 million doses of the one-shot vaccine administered, calling the clots, quote, extremely rare. there has also been no evidence tying the vaccination to the blood clots. president biden today responded saying there is still enough vaccine for every american. the concern among health officials and governors is what happens to confidence in all vaccines after today's pause? i want to talk about the decision and administration's response. joining us now is the u.s. surgeon general vivek murthy as well as dr. sanjay gupta. dr. murthy, thank you for being with us. we know the one death is a virginia woman who died on march 18th and the new york times is reporting that another woman has been hospitalized in critical condition in nebraska. what more can you tell us about the other four women and the timeline that led to the decision about the vaccine?
>> well, thanks, anderson, good to be with you and good to be with you, sanjay. i recognize when people hear news like today the vaccine administration is being paused can be troubling. let talk about what happened. the six women who were identified who had these rare but serious cases of blood clots were between the ages of 18 to 48. and as you mentioned, one of them unfortunately has passed away and what we're trying to figure out right now is whether these unfortunate cases of clots are in fact, related to the vaccine itself. keep in mind 6.8 million people have received the vaccine and we're talking about six cases here. the fact this is being caused tells you something about how seriously we're taking adverse events and how safety is really a critical priority when it comes to moving this larger vaccine campaign forward. >> just in terms of safety, i
mean, the bottom line is that vaccine safe? i mean 6.8 million vaccines given from johnson & johnson is obviously a huge number. six serious cases is six serious cases or very serious cases. i mean, is it safe? why pause it? >> to do the investigation quickly. to understand whether there's a connection between the vaccine and adverse events. there's another reason. to give us time to speak to the medical community. who are taking care of patients and enlist their help in looking for the symptoms we maybe concerned about and report it. recorded. this is an important part of process. and pausing is not unusual. not just with the vaccine but when new drugs come out. pauses happen often to evaluate
new developments and clinical conditions that arise. sometimes it turns out there's no connection. and you proceed. other times a connection is found, the cdc may come out with recommendations and warnings for example for certain populations at increase risk. >> given vaccine hesitancy. this is a one in a million risk factor. six people out of six million. it's one in a million so far have been impacted. is the pausing worth the other side of it? >> it's a really good question. >> that was the question that the administration deliberated on and that the cdc and the fda had to put their heads together on and make a very difficult represent there. there are costs to pausing.
questions are raised. people are sometimes troubled and scared by these moves, even they another made for the reason of protecting safety. that's all taken into consideration. at the end of the day, the most important thing is making sure we are doing the investigations that are needed. here, anderson, i want to make sure that people understand. people who may have taken the johnson & johnson vaccine or those who may have family members who have taken the vaccine. number one, these complications that we have seen may or may not be connected it the vaccine but even if they are, they are rare. very rare. second thing to understand is that the other vaccines that people are receiving, the moderna and pfizer vaccines, are not implicated with these findings with the clots. they use different mechanisms, more than 100 million people have received them. and this is how the system is supposed to work. the reason you find so many of us talking about this is we want people to understand our confidence in the vaccines is still high.
there is nothing that tells us that they are any less effective than the clinical trials told us. and we want to make sure the investigations are done completely. >> sanjay, you have some questions? >> yes. dr. murthy, good to see you. i am curious how big a surprise was this? you remember in the fall of last year, the johnson & johnson trial was paused at that point. it was described as an unexplained ill and we learned that it was a 25-year-old man who had a blood clot in one of the blood vessels in his brain. was there concern going back then? how big a surprise was this? >> well, it's a good question, sanjay. certainly, you know, we did not expect that this would, you know, happen, but we were prepared for it. and that's why the data was being collected and reviewed very carefully. also it not escaped our attention that the astrazeneca vaccine has encountered similar challenges with patients having
had severe blood clots that caused people to also investigate what was happening there. so what i would say is that from the clinical trial data, sanjay, you know, the upshot of all of that, the analysis was that the safety profile was strong and that the effectiveness was also strong and, but as you know also, these trials are done with large numbers of people, 40,000 plus. once you get the vaccine out into the population, you are giving it to millions and millions and millions of people, and every now and then you will find some events that occur at a frequency greater than what you had in the trials. that's why, precisely why, you continue to collect safety data and you are very sensitive about pulling the brakes then if that signal, that safety data gives us a signal that tells us something could be wrong and needs to be investigated. >> one thing that -- this vaccine, one of the assets is that it's a single dose, as you
know, and can be given more easily because it doesn't require the cold storage. college campuses, and also homeless communities, transient populations, people who may not show up for the second dose. even though it's a smaller segment of the overall vaccine rollout, dr. murthy, how big an impact would it be if we no longer have this as an option? >> well, it's a good question. i will say that, yes, when the johnson & johnson vaccine was first coming out, that was certainly one of the mother attractive pieces, that single-dose vaccine that is easier to store. the good news is we have adequate supply with moderna and pfizer to be able to vaccinate the adult population by the end of july in the united states. and even much of the adolescent population. the other piece is with moderna, we have actually found that we can actually enable it to be stored in manners that primary care doctors can actually store it in their offices and deliver. i have family members who are
administering the moderna vaccine to patients. in the early days we didn't know if that was possible. the more the vaccine campaign goes on, the more we have been able to find ways to get it out into the population, administer it. i am confident even with what happened with johnson & johnson we will be able to vaccinate the country effectively. >> surgeon general vivek murthy, appreciate it. we remember slain capitol police officer william "billy" evans. honored in the capitol today. words from president biden when we come back.
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the remains of capitol police officer william "billy" evans departed the capitol after lying in honor in the rotunda. he was an 18-year very veteran who died while protecting the capitol after a man wielded a knife. ach after ramming his vehicle into a barrier. also in attendance president joe biden who spoke of the immense stress the capitol police have been under after multiple