tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN April 15, 2021 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT
good evening. it has been a busy and a difficult day, in addition to the first-court appearance for the ex-officer, police officer, charged in daunte wright's killing in brooklyn center, minnesota. and the trial, in minneapolis, of ex-officer, derek chauvin, in the killing of george floyd. video emerged today in chicago of the fatal police shooting of adam toledo, a 13-year-old latino. of course, all of the cases are different. each scenario and each investigation is unique, and we will treat each of them as such. there is no denying, the country is on edge. we'll be joined by the toledo-family attorney, our legal and law enforcement analysts are here as well. including charles ramsey, who is especially qualified to talk about what is, and what isn't,
appropriate use of deadly force. we want to start, though, where daunte wright was killed. brooklyn center, minnesota. a town that's seen four-straight nights of protest and arrests, and looks to be bracing for a fifth. m miguel marquez is there. >> yeah, it very much does look like it is going to be a fifth night of some sort of protest. i want to show you what the crowd is doing right now. look. people are out here rallying, in support of daunte wright. they certainly want to see justice for him. they want to see changes to the police force, as well. and to the way policing is done. they are handing out umbrellas. they are handing out eye protection. they are, clearly, preparing for a night of making a very emphatic point to the police here, of the changes that they want to see to the entire system. the police, for their side, put in extra barriers, cement barriers and fencing, all the way up and down the station, itself. and even some of the side streets here. so, both sides, sort of getting ready for another night here but i got to tell you that police have gotten much better at
moving in very quickly, when curfews go into effect. and moving people. breaking up the protest and moving people out. anderson. >> is -- is there a curfew in place tonight, as there has been over the past-couple of days? >> there is for brooklyn center. it's been a little patchy, around the entire-minneapolis area. there's not, for the city of minneapolis. there's not, for brooklyn park, which is just east of where we are. but for brooklyn center, there is one starting at 10:00 p.m. the -- the curfew, aside, though, if police decide that it's an unlawful gathering, they will announce that. and start using means to try to move the crowd on, as well. so, we will have to see how the night progresses. but it -- it's always a little different and we suspect this crowd will be back again and again and again. anderson. >> miguel marquez. now, chicago, the shooting of a 13-year-old, adam toledo. this is an especially difficult subject, our randi kaye has the story. >> reporter: it's hard to watch
the final moments of a 13-year-old boy's life. this chicago police officer's body cam appear toss show the teenaged boy with what police say, is a gun in his right hand. turning toward the officer. in less than a second, he is fatally shot. a single bullet to the chest from the officer's gun. it happened, on march 29th. chicago police say, officers were responding to a shots-fired call on the city's west side when they say they came upon 13-year-old adam toledo and a 21-year-old man walking down an alley. the officer body cam footage shows toledo fleeing and the officer pursuing him on foot, yelling at him to stop. >> hey, show me your [ bleep ] ha hands! >> reporter: what happened next is still under investigation but police say body-cam video shows toledo with a gun in his right hand, as the officer, once again, yells for him to stop. as the boy turns around, the
officer opens fire. >> i've seen no evidence, whatsoever, that adam toledo shot at the police. >> reporter: police, later, tweeted out this picture of a gun, they say, was recovered from the scene. and prosecutors say, toledo's right hand tested positive for gunshot residue. but the family's attorney, insisting the boy was not holding a gun when he was shot. >> adam, during his last second of life, did not have a gun in his hand. the officer screamed at him, show me your hands. adam complied, turned around. his hands were empty, when he was shot in the chest, at the hands of the officer. >> reporter: she, later, suggested adam toledo may have had a gun, at some point, but tossed it. on the video, the unnamed officer, who shot the boy, immediately, calls for an ambulance and tries to render aid. police say, 21-year-old reuben roman was with the teenager and is in custody. the charges against him include
felony-reckless discharge of a firearm, and felony endangerment of a child. adam toledo's family, first, saw the body-cam video of the shooting on tuesday. the boy's mother, sobbing, as she questioned why anyone would kill her baby. chicago mayor, lori lightfoot, also, saw the video before it was released. >> it was excruciating. watching the body-cam footage, which shows young adam, after he's shot. it's extremely difficult. >> reporter: the boy's family initially asked that the video not be made public, right away. but later, attorneys for the family and the chicago mayor's office agreed to release the video, along with a slowed-down version of it. >> he is running through an alley. the raw-video footage is extraordinarily jumpy. it's really hard to see anything. providing, kind of, a
slowed-down, frame-by-frame opportunity to see what happened is going to be helpful to members of the public. >> reporter: adam toledo's mother describes her son as happy. saying he loved animals, building legos, and playing with hotwheels. now, so many questions about how he ended up dead in a chicago alley, at the hands of police. randi kaye, cnn, palm beach county, florida. joining us now is the attorney you saw, in randi's report, who represents the toledo family. i appreciate you joining us. so, police say the footage shows that less-than-one second passes, between the time when toledo is seen with a gun, and the officer fires a shot. if that is true, would the officer's actions be justified? >> well, let's clarify what's on the videos. there is a slowed-down version of the -- of the video, which
the police have compiled. in the version that everybody saw, today, which was the bad -- body cam. you cannot see, in real demotime, whether adam had a gun in his hand. there is, also, another scene, a video, from the school, adjacent to the alley. in that video, you cannot see whether adam had a gun in his hand. that video needs to be forensically analyzed, enhanced, and zoomed in, to determine what, if anything, adam had in his hand. nevertheless, at the moment -- at the moment the officer -- >> are you saying he did not -- are you -- are you saying he did not? i mean, you are his lawyer, his family's attorney. do you know, one way or the other, if he had a gun in his hand? because police say, not only they found a gun. they, also, found gun residue on -- on -- on a glove he was wearing or on his hand. >> well, the gun that was found was approximately-five feet or more, ten feet from adam's body, number one.
gun residue is transferrable. >> but what does that tell you? what does -- that it's five -- i mean, it seems a big coincidence that there is a gun found, right where he happened to stop. i mean -- >> well, gun was found five-to-ten feet from the body. gun residue is transferrable. the defendant, reuben roman, who was charged, was charged with unlawful use of a weapon. had red gun -- red gloves in his hand, covered with gun residue. at this point, we don't know if the gun residue on adam's hand was there when he passed away. >> well, what you are saying is we don't know if adam fired the gun, which is what there would be residue of, i assume. i'm not an expert on this. but -- no? >> no. it is established that reuben roman fired that gun. it is, also, established that the magazine was empty. it is, also, established that the slide was opened. and it is, also, established that when -- when adam turned
around, there was no gun in his hand. >> okay. but, yet, a gun was found right by his body. five -- or you say five-to-ten feet away. >> correct. correct. >> so, are you saying he did not have a gun? or -- the -- the only other option is that his -- the associate he was being with, who is now under custody, placed that gun there, previous to the police even arriving. and it's just a sheer coincidence that his body is found near that, correct? >> at this time, there's no way to establish what, if anything, was in adam's hand. it is not clear, on the school video. it is not clear on the cpd video. all the images that we have, thus far, of adam's right hand is blurry. so we can't establish, one way or another, whether that child had the gun in his hand. >> you have called this a, quote, assassination. now, obviously, tensions are
high in chicago and minnesota, elsewhere around the country. what makes you say that this is an assassination? which is a predetermined, planned-out attempt to kill somebody. >> well, let's just establish one thing. this family, more than anything, wants peace in chicago. this family has called for peace, at every opportunity, thus far. whether i say it's an assassination, when the reporter i believe from univision asked me about it, i have an unarmed, 13-year-old child, the holy week of easter, shot behind an alley with his hands in the air, in the the middle of his chest. he was given a directive from the officer, show me your hands. that child complied, lifts up his hands, and was shot in the middle of his chest. >> how is -- i mean, i can't im -- i was going to ask how the family is coping. obviously, it is beyond anything -- it's the worst thing for any parent to -- to go
through. what -- what is the family wanting to see happen, as far as the police department? and possibly, even the courts are concerned? >> the avenue -- the avenues that we're taking, legally, will be disclosed, at a later time. but they want justice for their family. they want reform. they want enhanced training for police officers. obviously, this officer, prematurely, pointed the trigger at that young man, when that young man complied. and then, he shot him. >> how do you determine that? you're -- you're saying, you're not clear what's on the video. and yet, you're coming to a conclusion. >> no. everybody wants to pinpoint adam with a gun in his hand. nobody, at this time, can put -- pinpoint adam with a gun in his hand. we don't know what, if anything, he had in his hand. the video footage of the officer, he's running up and
down. the video footage from the school, i can't do that, at this time. >> okay. you know, i appreciate your time and your representation, of -- of this family. and again, our -- our -- i am so sorry for -- for this family's loss. it is -- it is -- it's awful. >> thank you. joining us now, someone with experience running two-major police departments in philadelphia and d.c. cnn law enforcement analyst, charles ramsey. chief ramsey, appreciate you being with us. i have watched this video. it is obviously horrific to see a 13-year-old boy shot and being attended to, medically, and the video is just horrific. when you watch this video of the -- the chase. all that we know has gone on. all that we have seen, really, just from this video and what police have said and what the family is saying. what do you see? or what -- what stands out, to you? >> well, first of all, let me start by saying that it is a
tragedy, anytime someone loses their life. particularly, a young person, it is a tragedy. but i, too, saw that video. in addition, i saw some other videos. i went to the civilian office of police accountability website, investigates these kinds of things for the chicago pd. and they have several videos there. in my opinion, tragic as it was, the shooting was reasonable. and here's what i saw. what -- there is a video that shows the young man and an adult, who is the 21-year-old, walking down a street, together. now, this is at 2:40 in the morning. 2:40 a.m. 13-year-old on the street with a 21-year-old, at 2:40 in the morning. there's another shot that shows them walking down a street. and then, they turn. you see a car going down a street. you can see the taillights. they turn toward the street. and then, you hear a succession of shots. probably, seven or eight shots.
those are the shots that picked up. >> wait. wait. that shots fired -- excuse me -- by the way, that shots-fire thing you reference, that is a program they have in chicago, which i was unaware of that, basically, it's like a -- it's a listening device that picks up. when it picks up, it detects the sounds of gunfire, it alerts police there have been shots fired in an area. and that's what had this police officer respond. >> exactly. i had it in philly. and d.c. as well. i am very familiar with it. it's very effective. there is another video taken it shows two of them running immediately after the shots are fired. then, it picks up with officer getting out of the car, running behind the individual. and you will see, when he comes across the adult, and he kind of goes by him. but his partner actually takes that person down. i saw that body cam, as well. they get to the end of the alleyway. and he's, again, telling the young man to stop. you know, to -- to turn around. and you can see, there's a
still shot with the young man. he still has, what looked to me, like a gun in his right hand. and he, suddenly, spun around. and that's when the officer fired a single shot. immediately after, the officer went there and began applying first aid, you know, even cpr to the young man. there is a gun on the other side, because there is an opening there. and the gun is on the other side, maybe, about-five feet. but when he spins around like that, if he had a gun in his right hand. that could have, easily, just flown right out of his hand. either, as he was shot. or he was trying to get rid of it, right as he was shot. but it was less-than a second. literally, less than a second, from the time the officer saw that gun in his hand to the time that he fired that shot. i believe that's reasonable. i know, right now, everybody's, you know, blood in the water about policing. and i have not hesitated to speak up whenever officers, inappropriately, use force of any kind. this ain't one of those cases. i don't know how many people have ever chased an armed person
down an alley, at night. i have. and i know what it's like. believe me. >> we should point out. there was a gun on the ground, in that spot. >> yes. >> again, if -- if he did not throw it there, unless, then, somebody else placed it there. and that -- there -- we're seeing -- this was all happening, real time. the attorney -- i don't know if she was suggesting that, you know, the 21-year-old may have used the gun. and -- and it could have been there. coincidental. that seems unlikely. when i watch the video, not the slowed-down version, but just -- which is important to watch, in and of itself, but just the real-time one, you do just get a sense of the split second involved here. and, in which, a decision is made. and it just, you know, wherever you come down on this, it does give you a sense of the extreme difficulty of, you know, what a
police officer is facing. what anybody, in this scenario, is facing. these things are -- this -- in this case, it is happening so-lightning fast, late at night. it is -- it is a very difficult situation. >> 2:40 in the morning. 13 years old. out on the street with a guy with a gun. i mean, it -- it's -- you know, it's -- it's a tragic set of circumstances. and i am not threerying to vict blame but sometimes people put themselves in awful bad positions. so that time of morning, you got a gun, you are running. and if he had tossed it while he was running, you know, the video, of course, is -- is bumpy, because the video camera is actually in the chest of an officer. that's where they carry 'em. but you have jogged before. anybody who's ever jogged and run, you know that when you are running, as far as your head goes, it is reallatively stable. so that officer was able to see what he was looking at. >> chief ramsey, appreciate it.
difficult situation. coming up, next. closing testimony in the derek chauvin trial, and what to make of the ex-officer's decision not to take the stand. and later, the congressman, who sees mask wearing as a threat to personal freedom and his confrontation today with dr. a anthony fauci. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! all good
did i get the shot? nope. you saw the needle and passed out cold. here you go. continue to wear a mask. next. good luck guys! it's a breeze. [ring] [ring ring] [ring] oh no... i thought i just ordered tacos. nope! sushi... ramen... burgers... tandoori chicken... some milk from the store, and... ...and, let me guess. cookies? wha, me hungry! yeah. here, i'll call some friends to help us eat. yeah, that good idea. yeah. get more from your neighborhood. doordash. hey yo, grover! you like ramen?
in minneapolis, crews have been putting up razor wire around police stations in preparation for a verdict in the derek chauvin trial. police departments in atlanta, chicago, and washington, also, taking precautions. testimony ended today in court. closing arguments will be heard, on monday. tension, as you can see from those images and as you might imagine, is running high. i have more now, from sara sidner. >> i will invoke my fifth-amendment privilege today. >> reporter: for the first time since the start of the trial, former-minneapolis police officer, derek chauvin. he chose not to take the stand as a witness in his own defense, leading the defense to rest its
case. >> your honor, at this time, the defense rests. >> reporter: the prosecution then brought back its star-medical witness to refute the idea, brought up by yesterday's defense expert. >> it is an extremely toxic gas. >> reporter: that exhaust from the squad car's tailpipe, possibly, led to carbon-monoxide poisoning of george floyd. >> do you agree with that proposition, that's highlighted there? >> no, i do not. it's simply wrong. >> reporter: just before that, the prosecution attempted to introduce new-lab result evidence about carbon-monoxide poisoning. >> it was discovered, yesterday, by dr. baker. it would return a value for the carbon-monoxide content, and that would show, whether or not that result is in the normal range or not. >> reporter: the defense argued such a late-evidence entry by the prosecution should lead to a mistrial. >> it's our position, that these new-test results should not go in front of the jury, first and foremost. and second, if they were, i would be moving for a mistrial. >> reporter: the judge agreed. >> the late disclosure has prejudiced the defense. it's not going to be allowed. >> reporter: a short time later,
all-witness testimony came to an end. >> the state of minnesota rests. and sara sidner joins us now along with george floyd's brother. sara? >> yeah. so we should mention, too, that the jury will get this case on monday, after closing arguments. but i am here with terrance floyd. terrance, if you -- you wouldn't mind coming over to talk to me, and i appreciate you being here. why did you decide to come to this particular spot? this is the spot where daunte wright was killed. the last time i saw you, in person, it was at the spot where your brother was killed when you came into minneapolis, to pay your respects there. why are you here today? >> well, i'm in minneapolis because of the trial for my brother. but as we're here for that, this situation happened. so, to come and -- and just like i came down and paid respects to my brother, where he passed
away, where he got murdered. i want to do the same thing for daunte wright. that's why i just felt compelled to come down here, and just show him -- show him some love. show his family some love. >> reporter: could you have, ever, predicted or imagined that, during the trial of a former officer, accused of killing your brother for kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds, that another young, unarmed, black man would be shot dead by an officer, just-ten-miles away from what happened to your brother? >> no, i could -- i couldn't -- this is just surreal. i couldn't have imagined this because, during this time, you would think, you know, they would be low key. try to like, you know, that -- [ inaudible ] and just do everything by the book. but, you know, still, accidents, quote/unquote, are still happening. and we're dying from it. >> reporter: do you believe that this was not an accident?
because you said accidents, quote/unquote. >> i, seriously, don't believe it's an accident, because i'm not sure of the color of a taser. in this part of town. but in -- where i'm from, brooklyn, new york, a taser is yellow and black. and a gun is black. so, i don't think it was an accident, because even -- even besides the color, it's a weight difference. other than that, besides there being a weight difference, thy are positioned on different sides. so, if you're a 26-year -- you been on the force for 26 years, and you don't know, by now, which side to go to. no, i really don't feel it was an accident. not at all. >> reporter: can you tell me what it was like, the moment that you walked up to this memorial? you see daunte's name spelled out in candles. you have seen this scene, before. that fist, right there, was taken from your brother's memorial. what was it like, showing up here today?
>> it was, like i said, like my nephew said, it was a damn-this-again moment. it happened, again. and just walking up here, knowing his age. that could have been my son, because my son is 18. that could have been my son. and then, it -- it's just -- it's just mind boggling that, you know, the people that we are -- we are looking to protection from are actually using those, like, you know, being our predators. they're -- they're -- it seem like they're coming after us. you know? and that's -- that's the way i see it right now. i'm -- i'm -- i'm -- i'm sorry. >> i know it's hard. no, you are okay. you you're okay. i want to explain to you, also, why terrance is -- is so filled
with emotion, and at a loss for words. he literally just got a phone call, i hope you don't mind if i say. >> yeah. >> reporter: just got a phone call from daunte wright's mother. and he heard her voice and he said, if his mother had been alive. george floyd's mother had been alive. he heard his mother's voice in daunte wright's mother as she was talking to him about the pain she felt in the death of her son. anderson. >> sara sidner, thank you. and terrance floyd, thank you. appreciate it. our legal team has been helping us understand the courtroom proceedings from day one. senior-legal analyst and former federal prosecutor laura coates is with us. and criminal defense attorney, mark o'mara. mark, if you were representing derek chauvin, i assume, you would have advised him to -- not to testify? >> though it's truly his decision, at that moment in time. i got to tell you, there was virtually nothing that chauvin could have done to help himself, in this case. i don't believe. the only thing, and though, i might have scripted it, he could never have gotten through it if
he actually went out there and, somehow, apologized. somehow, explained that he was, based on his training. somehow, came up with an explanation that might have convinced this jury to give him a lesser charge. but there is nothing he could have done to increase the chances of acquittal. and i think, he would have been devastated on cross-examination, by the prosecutor, because there's no way that he can defend nothing other than the nine-and-a-half minutes. so, i think it was the right decision, under these circumstances. >> laura, i don't know if one can generalize. but do prosecutors, typically, want to get a chance at cross examining the defendant? or, in some instances, are they relieved when a defendant doesn't take the stand? >> i mean, normally, prosecutors are chomping at the bit to be able to interview someone, let alone have a cross. because then, you are able to bring up things that you, otherwise, could not get in. if there are prior-bad acts, for example. i know, that the judge, in this case, was not going to allow the overwhelming number of cases that they wanted -- not that the number was overwhelming but they
wouldn't allow the majority of the actual-prior bad acts, of perhaps excessive force and other instances to get in. but if he opens a door and takes that stand, he is essentially fair game. so you want the opportunity, as a prosecutor. i will say, as much as the defense is trying to plant a seed of doubt. one thing that defendants can do, which is very, very troublesome to a prosecutor, is they can plant a seed of empathy. up until now, we have only heard from people who are doing no favors to try to make derek chauvin look bad. he did himself no favors. the 9-minute-and-29-second video did him no favors. but the idea of how people are psychologically trained, in this country, to give the benefit of the doubt to a police officer, even if they did not see a viable-defense explanation, let alone justification. there is always an opportunity that somebody might see something about this individual, in themselves. interpret his demeanor, his idiosyncrasies, his expressions, in some way. his remorse, if he is able to demonstrate it.
and they may be able to try to, essentially, attribute what they would feel on this person. that's the only-real benefit you can have, as a defendant, in a case like this. to try to appeal to -- to some sort of iota of empathy. unfortunately, however, if he's not somebody who is going to be able to convey that. and the overwhelming evidence has been presented, already. what could he have possibly said? he can't say he was trained to do this. he can't say he didn't know that the person was in distress. he can't say that he actually rendered aid. so what can he say? >> hmm. mark, looking to monday, how much do closer arguments actually matter? i mean, can -- can a case be won or lost, by what lawyers say in their summations? >> you know, i often say that closing arguments are really there for the lawyers because it's what we learned, you know, on tv and wanted to do in law school. but tii will tell you in a complicated case, and this case is complicated not because of the facts of the case. it's easy for us to say it looks like the state proved their case. and as laymen looking at it, it's pretty obvious.
but what the defense has to focus on is nothing more than, that jury has to be convinced, beyond a reasonable doubt. and if the defense does their job of going through everything, and showing these potential-other possibilities of cause of death. not that it happened that way. that's not the defense' job. the defense's job is to say, if i can give you a reason. if i can give you a piece of evidence, to which you can attach a doubt, and you have a reason for that. what it means is, simply, the state doesn't get their conviction because they have not proven their case, beyond a reasonable doubt. you are not deciding that my client is innocent. you are simply telling the prosecution, you didn't do enough to take away all-reasonable doubt. and that is the job of a criminal-defense attorney, in closing arguments. >> mark o'mara, laura coates. stay with us. appreciate it. mark, thanks very. i want to get laura's perspective on today's first court appearance for kim potter, the ex-police officer who shot and killed daunte wright. and what direction her case could take. we'll be right back.
new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a short list of quality candidates from our resume database. claim your seventy five dollar credit, when you post your first job at indeed.com/home. how great is it that we get to tell everybody how liberty mutual customizes your car insurance
so you only pay for what you need? i mean it... uh-oh, sorry... oh... what? i'm an emu! no, buddy! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ will there be an ev for me? what about me? one for me? you mean us? what about me? and me? how about us? yeah, how about us? great question. wait, can i get one in green? got one for me?! hey, what about me? what about us? is there an ev for me? ev for me?
with the pain, still, fresh, and protestors, again, tonight, taking to the streets of brooklyn center. the ex-police officer, who shot and killed daunte wright, made her first-court appearance today. kim potter was arrested yesterday, charged with second-degree manslaughter. here, again, is cnn's miguel marquez. >> my brother, my sister, need this woman to be convicted. >> reporter: daunte wright's
aunt calling for the conviction of former-brooklyn center police officer, kim potter, who had her initial hearing today on a single charge of second-degree manslaughter. >> can we get something? manslaughter? >> reporter: ben crump, the lawyer for daunte wright's family, says the 20-year-old father should never have been pulled over, to begin with, for expired tags. should never have even been threatened with a taser, and doesn't believe the former-officer potter, a 26-year veteran of the force, could mistake a handgun for a taser, as body-cam video suggests. >> they come up with a way to justify, over and over again, the killing of black people in america. >> reporter: daunte wright, he says, is only the latest victim of a justice system stacked against people of color. >> that's very important. that, marginalized minorities in
america get their day in court. >> reporter: wright's family says, that kim potter was charged, quickly, is a step forward. but, will never be enough. >> unfortunately, there's never going to be justice for us. the justice would bring our son home to us, knocking on the door with his big smile, coming in the house. >> reporter: daunte wright's father says his son's life was only beginning to take shape. >> my son was a good, young man. he was a young man in the making. we were building my son up to be som somebody. he was gonna be somebody. >> reporter: speaking at the church, where their son will be eulogized next week, speaking just before going to the funeral home to see their son's body, for the first time since he was killed, his 14-year-old sister speaking about her brother. >> my brother. he was the most delightful person i have ever met. like, you can -- he -- he was just -- he was everything. everything.
his smile. his jokes. his -- everything about him. >> miguel marquez joins us now from brooklyn center. so what is next for the wright family, miguel? >> reporter: you know, it's a -- it's a big family. and it was -- i've met some of the siblings, and they are absolutely lovely. and absolutely, shocked at what they are dealing with now. you know, it was really moving, being in that church where his funeral will be next week. and that's the big thing they are moving toward now. they were going to the funeral home, today, to see his body for the first time since he -- since he died. and they are preparing for that funeral that will be next thursday, at that same church. it is an incredibly hard time for them. so hard, to see the father of daunte wright get up and speak. he had a very difficult time saying anything, but wanted to speak on behalf of his son. anderson. >> miguel marquez, appreciate
it. thank you. back with us as well now, cnn senior legal on list, laura coates. laura, you do you have any sens how the course of this, and how will -- tough or easy would it be for prosecutors to deliver that verdict for the wright family? >> well, you know, the definition of justice, unfortunately, for so many victims families in this country, is not what the laws can provide. especially when it comes to sentencing. but having said that, even without the universal definition of justice, anderson, there are -- there is a charge, now, against this officer. and as i have said, before, because of the pace of this actual charge. it could mean this is only the initial charge. i remind people that another officer in the minneapolis area, just a couple years ago, mohammed noor was also charged with second-degree manslaughter but they also had a third-degree murder charge attached to it. based on the same-factual predicate of this unreasonable risk that was taken. and the unreasonable risk here is when you have created an
opportunity, where you could actually, consciously cause somebody to die or have grave-bodily harm. the question it comes down to is how they are going to be able to reconcile this notion of consciously. is the fact that the taser is so markedly different from the service weapon, going to be enough to infer that there was consciousness? remember, the words that we choose in a statute are very deliberate. and they have meaning. they're not just, sort of, terms you throw out there. and so, go and develop the case, to figure tout if they are going to be able to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that even if it wasn't an intentional act. if all of the circumstances surrounding it showed this was a consciously-taken, unreasonable risk, you could elevate these charges. now, i will just say this, though, anderson. remember, one of the thins that's very disturbing about officers, when they are involved in these cases, as defendants. is they get the opportunity to preempt a lot of this. when that now-resigned police chief got up there, he set the stage and the tone of what people believed or were led to believe.
he called it an accidental discharge. with that out there in the universe, the prosecutors have to try to figure out if that's truthful, or if that is only part of the story or an outright lie. this investigation, for them, has just really begun. >> and, the wright family suggests it wants to see much more jail time in this case, as it now stands could potentially result in. do you think second-degree manslaughter is the appropriate charge, given what's known at the time? >> well, given what's known at the time, without any information about the idea of acting with a depraved heart, in -- in some respect, which, of course, also, has some legal connotations. this is a good-initial charge. now, again, this is a sliding scale for many prosecutors, and i remind people. another officer, who shot and killed philando castile, also had this same charge of second-degree manslaughter. and they added two-additional, lower charges, where the mohammed noor case increased one. so depending upon how all of
this is going in the investigation, it is the appropriate charge, initially. but that does not mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that needs to be the final charge. particularly, you have to think about the entire course of events, here. from the time he was pursued, to stopped, to this officer intervening. to, now, having this service weapon, instead of the taser. all of this, comes into the same statement. we have looked at the derek chauvin trial, which is the reasonable use of force. if that wasn't followed, the sliding scale goes up, in terms of the degree of the charge. whether it's manslaughter or murder. >> laura coates, appreciate it. thank you. up next. we have breaking news in the vaccine front. why some may need a third shot this year. and a fiery exchange today on capitol hill between dr. anthony fauci and congressman jim jordan. we'll be right back. eah! honey, you still in bed? yep! bye! that's why we love skechers max cushioning footwear. they've maxed out the cushion for extreme comfort. it's like walking on clouds! big, comfy ones! oh yeah!
you know when your dog is itching for a treat. itching for an outing... or itching for some cuddle time. but you may not know when he's itching for help... licking for help... or rubbing for help. if your dog does these frequently. they may be signs of an allergic skin condition that needs treatment. don't wait. talk to your veterinarian and learn more at itchingforhelp.com.
there is breaking news tonight on the coronavirus-vaccine front. the ceo of pfizer says a third shot of its vaccine will likely be needed within a year of the original shot. in a live event on facebook, he also said there will probably be a need for an annual-covid shot. all of this, as there was a remarkably heated exchange today on capitol hill between dr.
anthony fauci, the nation's top-infectious disease expert, and the conservative-republican congressman, from ohio, jim jordan. during a house subcommittee meeting about the response to the pandemic and restrictions still in place around the country. cnn's kaitlan collins joins us now with more. so talk more about what happened today with the congressman and dr. fauci. >> anderson, it probably looks like what so many of us have seen, in the last year. a fight between family or friends over covid-19 restrictions, vaccinations, mask wearing. some of it's really become a part of our daily life. except, this time, it was happening on capitol hill during a hearing with a congressman and the nation's top infectious diseases experts, as they were openly sparring over this issue of restrictions. jim jordan started questioning dr. fauci during this hearing. a hearing where some lawmakers were using it to get answers about what's been going on. but jim jordan took this route of complaining about how, you know, a year ago, you saw vice
president mike pence and president trump announcing this 15 days to slow the spread. and saying, that it turned into too many days of restrictions. and, of course, dr. fauci, pushing back on the reason why those restrictions really stayed in place. but you kind of have to watch it to get it. so just look at what happened earlier today, on capitol hill. >> what objective outcome do we have to reach, before -- before americans get their liberty and freedoms back? >> you know, i -- you're -- you're indicating liberty and freedom. i look at it as a public-health measure, to prevent people from dying and going to the hospital. >> you don't think americans' liberties have been threatened the last year, dr. fauci? they have been assaulted. their liberties have. >> i don't look at this as a liberty thing, congressman jordan. >> well, that's obvious. >> i look at this as a public-health thing. >> but -- >> i disagree with you on that. >> i just want to know when do americans get their first-amendment liberties back? >> i think, you are --
making this a personal thing and it isn't. >> it a personal thing. >> no, you are. mr. chairman, i don't want you to answer my question. the american people want dr. fauci to answer the question. >> you need to respect the chair and shut your mouth. >> that's maxine water there's at the end to say to shut your mouth to jim jordan. but you see how heated it got. really, what dr. fauci was saying in the end, the more people get vaccinated, the lower level of threat of getting infected with covid-19 is. that's when life can get back to normal. >> did things calm down or did they clash again. >> no, they clashed again. it's a routine thing with dr. fauci and some of these republicans, former allies of president trump, in these hearings, going back and forth on these restrictions, and you hear dr. fauci and they're asking for direct numbers, and exact science, and you have seen public health experts be
hesitant to say here's exactly where we need to be because there is so much unpredictabler covid-19 with the variance and what not. this is often something you see happen here with dr. fauci. he was often a favorite park of former president trump's. and so no, it continued from there with this clashing over the idea of liberty versus lives lost. one thing i think we should note is republican men have been increasingly hesitant to get the vaccine. that's an important messaging, that we've heard from covid-19 expert, people who work in the white house, people who don't work in the white house about that. that's certainly an avenue that could help end the pandemic restrictions that you've been seeing. that's an avenue other people could explore, to help end the restrictions that you have been seeing. >> kaitlan collins, appreciate it. thanks, just ahead, president biden signaling a tougher stance against russia than his predecessor. and connecting the 2016 trump campaign with russia. both stories when we continue.
- [narrator] grubhub perks give you deals on all the food that makes you boogie. (upbeat music) get the food you love with perks from- - [crowd] grubhub. i'd call my grandfather as a result of the research that i've started to do on ancestry. having ancestry to fill in the gaps with documents, with photographs, connecting in real time means that we're having conversations that are richer. i have now a closer relationship with my grandfather. i can't think of a better gift to give to my daughter and the generations that come after her. bring your family history to life like never before. get started for free at ancestry.com
who unlike his predecessor is willing to criticize and punish his predecessor, as well as hold out an olive branch. >> we could have gone further. i chose not to do so. i chose to be proportionate. the united states is not looking to kick off a cycle of escalation and conflict with russia. we want a stable, predictable relationship, and if russia continues to interfere with our democracy, i'm prepared to take further actions to respond. >> more now from our alex marquardt on the message he believes he's sending to russia's vladimir putin with these sanctions, as well as new revelations about how russia meddled in the past two u.s. elections. >> reporter: today the biden administration rolled out what the president calls measured and proportionate sanctions against russia, for among other things, russia's attempt to interfere in the 2020 presidential election, and the historic hack against the u.s. government. the massive russian influence
campaign in the 2020 election led to 32 people and entities being sanctioned today. including for the use of disinformation web sites like these spreading lies, directed by russia's main intelligence agencies. russian efforts and operations were global, a network in after africa and companies in pakistan. there was a new tie revealed today between the trump campaign and 2016 and russia. the u.s. treasury department targeting russian konstantin kilimnik for giving russian intelligence, both polling data and campaign strategy in the race. it was given to him by 2016 trump campaign manager paul manafort, a long time associate of kilimnik's. manafort pushed his conspiracy theories promoting the idea that ukraine, not russia interfered in the 2016 election, an unfounded idea picked up by president trump. >> how come the fbi never got the server from the dnc.
the server, they say, is held by a company whose primary ownership individual is from ukraine. >> reporter: for the first time today the u.s. also named the russian intelligence agency behind the unprecedented cyber attack known as the solar winds hack uncovered late last year. a sophisticated campaign into at least nine u.s. federal agencies and around 100 companies. cracking down on russian intelligence, the biden administration sanctioned six technology companies connected to them. and announced it would kick out ten russian diplomats from the embassy in washington, including known spies. one issue where russia was not punished is for the reported bounties that russia put on the heads of american troops in afghanistan. reports that biden used during the campaign to blast trump. >> as president, i will never, never, never, stand silently. in the face of intelligence reports that the kremlin has put bounties on the heads of u.s.
troops serving afghanistan. >> reporter: the intelligence on that biden officials now say isn't strong enough to demand action now. instead, they'll respond through diplomats and the military. >> and alex marquardt joins us now. president biden said he told vladimir putin earlier that u.s. action was coming. what more do we know about that call? >> he said this call with putin was candid and respectful. he says he told putin the u.s. response came after they dieded that what russia had done in his words was totally inappropriate. he told putin more action could come if russia continues to interfere. now, anderson, biden is clearly trying to walk a careful line here, both punishing russia for many of the things they have done, hoping things don't escalate between the u.s. and russia. the phrase that we heard from biden today, which we've frankly heard a lot from this white house is stable and predictable. that's the relationship they want with russia going forward. biden talked about how these two great powers, as he called them, can continue to work together on nuclear issues and arms control,
and biden also proposed a face-to-face summit with putin in europe this summer. anderson? >> alex marquardt, appreciate it. thanks. the news continues. i want to hand it over it to chris for cuomo prime time. >> thank you very much. i am chris cuomo and welcome to "prime time." critical body cam video has been released of another police killing. the victim in this case is a 13-year-old named adam toledo. this happened on march 29th in chicago. there is closed circuit camera footage, and body camera footage showing different moments before and after the shooting including the foot pursuit of an officer chasing the boy and also the shooting itself in an alley on chicago's west side. here's what we know, police responded to reports of gunshots, when they responded to the scene, they came upon toledo and a 21-year-old man. both ran. the 21-year-old was arrested at the scene. one of the officers chased adam and shot him