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tv   CNN Tonight  CNN  May 20, 2022 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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-- captions by vitac -- coates a www.vitac.com thank you. yet one of the funerals that never should have been if not for that horrendous hate crime. i am laura coates, and this is "cnn tonight." i want to take a second, if we can here, just to take a step back for a moment. i really want us to understand what is happening across this country. and i know that as a nation we've been talking about rowe v wade and the potential for it being overturned since 1973. there's been so many challenges to it, so many decisions to have a right supreme court to be able to overturn it. and yet sitting here today and until now, it has remained the law of the land. but from texas to mississippi to now oklahoma and frankly beyond, we've seen a lot of blueprints created and followed that will and already have upended a nearly 50-year precedent. but we have, after all, yet to see a final opinion from the
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supreme court. now, i know there's a draft opinion, and it was leaked and it purports to say that, yes, the writing is on the wall. and no one should be naive to the prospect that roe v. wade may, in fact, be overturned. and yet, roe v. wade, again, sitting here today is still supposed to be the law of the land until the supreme court officially says otherwise. but for some governors and abortion clinic operators, the leaked opinion was enough. it's given license to governors to try to anticipate that overturning roe v. wade, according to that opinion, will allow them to decide the issue. remember, alito wanted it to go back to the states. it's about having the individual states being the one to decide how their state will operate. and because of it, some governors are now signing legislation accordingly or hoping to be able to soon. and for some abortion clinic operators, well, state abortion bans have made them stop providing the service entirely out of fear of being sued.
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again, this is with roe v. wade still the law of the land. and abortion care providers along with many concerned oklahomans, well, they're bracing for the impact of this looming ban on almost all abortions in the state. we're going to hear from one of those providers whose clinic has stopped providing abortions even before the bill has been signed, well before, of course, even roe v. wade being overturned, if it in fact will be. she says some women she's been talking to have become frantic. there's already an undoubtedly important impact on oklahomans in a major way. you've got the republican governor, kevin sit, who is expected to sign this newly passed law at any time, and if he does -- and when, perhaps, he does -- there will be no law in the country like this. it will outlaw abortions from the very moment of fertilization with very few exceptions. and remember what happened in
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texas. you'll be able to have a civilian enforcement component, where you can be sued if you aid and abet or are suspected or helping somebody have an abortion. and this, all that i've talked about today, will likely take effect even while roe v. wade still stands, even though we know that long-settled law protecting abortion rights could -- could be overturned by the supreme court. i have to tell you, i'm not naive, and i know you are not either. but as a lawyer, as a voter, as a human being, as a woman, as a person, i'm concerned about the effect of states getting ahead of their constitutional skis, so to speak. let's expand beyond abortion in the context of the conversation to really understand why this moment is so impactful. what's the impact of states making laws if they're conservative or liberal, doesn't matter how the law leans and is perceived. but making a law that goes
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against supreme court precedent in the hopes that you will guess correctly what their opinion will one day be. the question then becomes who's going to have the last say and who are the people to listen to? and if that's the question we're asking, doesn't that risk making the supreme court obsolete? and isn't that extraordinarily dangerous precedent as well? and speaking of press department from the supreme court and the supreme court itself, you don't have to be a supreme court insider to know that there were probably some tensions happening around that leaked opinion. and there are tensions within the supreme court right now as the decision edges closer. i mean, it's kind of been out there for everyone to see with one of the justices, who's had long calls for roe to be overturned. clarence thomas, who's been throwing shade at his fellow conservative, and the chief justice, john roberts, who might actually be behind the scenes trying to work for a compromise to uphold roe at least for now. listen closely here to what justice thomas said just the other day about what the high
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court was like before chief justice roberts came to be in 2005 and the friendships of yesteryear before he was a part of the court. >> this is not the court of that era. if the court that was together 11 year was a fabulous court. it was one you looked forward to being a part of. we actually trusted it. we may have been a dysfunctional family, but we were a family. i think the -- what's changed in society, modernity, post-modernity, i think attitudes have changed. >> have to wonder whether the rose-colored glasses are appropriate or really it was really the facts of the cases. and that was with the climate. either way, someone's not getting invited to the party. we're going to dig much deeper into that path forward with cnn's joan biskupic and her fascinating new reporting on this issue about the tensions. first to looming oklahoma ban on most abortions, again,
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from the moment of fertilization. andrea guy yea goes, executive administrator of the tulsa women's clinic and runs another clinic in texas. both have stopped providing abortions for now, even in oklahoma, where it hasn't even taken effect yet. also here is mark herron, a senior litigator for the center for reproductive rights. and he represented abortion providers that were challenging texas' antiabortion law. and we are in many respects waiting to see what this sort of thing might mean. it's a good one for people who are in favor of not having abortion. it's one, in fact, that would be the antithesis of freedom for those in favor of abortion rights. i want to begin with you, andrea, because as someone who operates clinics -- you have one in texas and oklahoma -- you've actually told some of your patients, look, when texas had its law, you can still go to oklahoma. there's still another vehicle.
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this really cuts that off entirely. what has been the reaction for your patients and of course for yourself and your clinic? how are you responding? >> yes, thank you, laura, for the question. you know, it's completely devastating to tell a patient that because of these blatantly unconstitutional laws that we can no longer provide the health care that they're seeking and that we're qualified to provide. we've had patients that we've had to turn away minors, rape survivors, and you know, because of texas' saw sb.8, we had to say, no, we can't help you here. prior to any laws passing in oklahoma, we were able to at least provide an option of sending them to oklahoma. oklahoma was quite the sanctuary
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state. we saw up to 300 patients from texas alone every month up until, you know, oklahoma passed 1503, this was the exact same copy cat law of sb.8 in texas. and essentially -- >> it goes further -- excuse me, andrea. it goes further even with the idea of fertilization. >> correct. >> i have to ask you, why have you stopped providing the services now? i maybe understand texas. but oklahoma, it's not been signed into law yet. what is it that you are afraid of? is it the idea of being sued? is it the idea of this being codified in a way? what is the driving reason to stop before you even have a supreme court opinion or a signed legislation? >> so, first, we haven't stopped in texas. we still provide abortions to detectable fetal cardiac activity. in oklahoma, we stopped as of
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today. we're expecting the governor to sign 43-27 into law at any moment. and so we decided to go ahead and stop just expecting that he will be signing. >> mark, when you hear this, you know, the idea of the chilling effect -- that's really the fear people have when you have the idea of trying to anticipate the supreme court. and, again, the leaked opinion does purport to overturn roe v. wade. it might just be about what they will do about it and what the final language is. when you here, though, that there are people who are already stopping providing services in oklahoma, what goes through your mind? there are a whole lot of legal issues to consider here. and the idea that it's already a deterrent, does that concern you? >> of course it does. but just to back up a little bit, about three weeks ago, nearly three weeks ago on may 3rd, oklahoma passed an sb.8 style copy cat bill that banned
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abortion beginning at six weeks. so, for nearly three weeks, patients in both texas and in oklahoma have been unable to get abortions past six weeks. but that wasn't extreme enough. that wasn't cruel enough for the oklahoma politicians who decided we need to pass the total ban. and the reason that clinics have had to stop providing is because there's an immediate effective date, which is nearly unheard of for legislation. but these legislators are deciding to pass the cruellest, the most -- the most difficult law that they could possibly pass with an immediate effective date. of course it's a giant column. if the courts don't step in, my thoughts are with the patients all across oklahoma and texas now who -- oklahoma patients were already backlogged for weeks because of the rush of patients coming from texas and taking appointments in oklahoma. now patients in texas and oklahoma are going to have to travel hundreds, thousands of
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miles, if they have the means to do so, if they have the ability to take time off work, secure child care. this hurts low income women, marginalized communities. this is devastating for those communities. and that's where my thoughts are. >> and, andrea, to that point -- and i absolutely understand the ramifications of what this means. and you're on the ground and both of you have done this work and anticipated, frankly, the idea of the prospect of it. but what really strikes me is you members of the juried the idea of minors, people who were rape victims. there are exceptions that have been stated, at least codified on the paper. but i have to tell you, i keep wondering, as a prosecutor -- and i have prosecuted rape cases. and i always wonder, well, how are you supposed to litigate the matter fully? how do you prove that somebody has been a victim of a crime such as rape in order to get them in the exception? and further, if all the -- had
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been closed, what good are the exceptions at all? >> right. i think it's also important to consider that while 43-27, the total ban does make exceptions for rape, the provider has to be willing to report that rape first. that takes time. and then 15-03 is still in place. so, 15-03 limits abortions after a fetal heart rate is detected. so, if a rape survivor decides that they're going to report and going to seek an abortion, if they are past the six-week limit, there's nothing they can do in oklahoma. so, the exception, to me, is not -- it's -- it's not very much of one. these laws, like mark said, are incredibly cruel and really hurting women right now all over the state. >> andrea, mark, thank you so
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much. it's most concerning as well when you go beyond the context of even abortion. i know that these clinics provide health care services as well. so, the shutting of them -- being shutting down is not limited to abortion-related services. i could imagine people who are getting breast exams, who are getting pap smears, who are getting other services that are vital to a woman's body and health and what the consequences might be. thank you to both of you. >> thank you, laura. as i mentioned earlier, this abortion fight has a lot of people on edge. even within the supreme court, we're all watching the supreme court to see what they will do, what they will ultimately decide to do about roe v. wade. and there's tension apparently between the two people on your screen right now, between justice clarence thomas and the chief justice john roberts. and we're going to go take a much deeper dive into exactly why there is the tension and unpack some eye popping news involving justice thomas' wife and her activism, next. ngos thumping in my chest♪
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this is not the court of that era. i sat with ruth ginsburg for almost 30 years, and she was actually an easy colleague for me. you knew where she was, and she was a nice person to deal with. sandra day o'connor, you can say the same thing. >> hm, justice clarence thomas couldn't say the same thing about chief justice john roberts. even suggesting at one point that there isn't much trust among his colleagues. a tension simmering within the high court only adds more uncertainty to the fate of roe v. wade, and we also know very well justice thomas, this court is not like that of ruth bader ginsburg, by virtue of the fact that this is pending the way it is. for more on this, joan biskupic, cnn legal analyst joins me now.
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joan, i'm glad you're here. you've written my abook on the supreme court and know this well. is justice thomas right about the court of yesteryear and the sort of kumbaya moments that were there? >> well, i can say that justice thomas and others from that era had a higher level of trust. he said what has been simmering inside for many years, and i think it's telling that it would come out at this point. two things, and they're both in the clips that you played, laura. first of all, when he said, we actually trusted each other, as in, now we don't. and the more recent clip you just played about ruth bader ginsburg when he said, you knew where she was. she told us how she felt, how she was going to rule. and the implication is -- and i know this is the case behind the scenes -- as they regard the
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chief as secretive and cagey, but it has been toward an end that has made john roberts successful in other times in brokering a compromise. just think, laura, of how close larence thomas is right now to realizing his goal he's had for three decades of reversal of roe. the political draft that came out earlier this month suggested there were five votes to completely overturn roe v. wade. the draft was dated february 10th. so many weeks since then and there are still about five weeks more to go until, you know, we'll probably see the ruling, although it can come at any point. but i think this is likely to come at the end of june. and i think clarence thomas' very candid remarks that he has prided himself in not being so candid on the relations behind the scenes reveals some of the tension there and could suggest that the chief is actually having some success in climbing
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that very steep hill of convincing either brett kavanaugh, possibly amy coney barrett that we can reverse roe, but this is not the case for it. laura, as you know -- >> is that possible though? i mean, joan, when you say that -- i'm sorry to -- excuse me. when you say that, the idea that justice amy coney barrett or justice brett kavanaugh might be the ones to be persuadable in this context is striking for so many people across the country because the expectation during the confirmation hearings would be that these would be the two in particular who would side against the idea of upholding roe v. wade. hedge their answers to confirm their confirmation, of course, as every justice who's a nominee does. but is it a possibility that those two could be persuaded? is that what might be happening behind the scenes? >> well, let me just say this. and i don't want to raise expectations because, you know, you've got five very hard core
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conservatives who have been eager to reverse it. but let me just pose this possibility. i think the strongest card the chief has is the fact when they granted this case a year ago, in may, they said they were only going to look at whether the constitution prohibits any kind of ban on pre-viability abortions. and you know what that means. it would mean any kind of ban on abortions before about the 23rd week of pregnancy. this mississippi law before the justices has a 15-week ban. and, you know, the one thing the chief did say and that he likely is saying is that you know i oppose abortion rights. you know i think there's a problem with roe, but this is not the case to do it in. and if we are going to actually -- and laura, i want to make clear that even the very persuasive chief justice john roberts might not be able to pull a rabbit out of a hat on
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this one. he might not get buy-in from someone like brett kavanaugh, who in the end, laura, has voted against abortion rights. it might not happen and the odds are against it. there's a really strong possibility there. and the fact that clarence thomas wanted to complain about the chief so publicly last week suggests that at least the tensions are high enough and you could possibly with thwarting clarence thomas' goal of reversal of roe. >> you're right, joan. and there are conflicts of interest, even coming from the wife of justice clarence thomas. but, you know people who live in glass houses -- you know the end of the saying. i appreciate so much hearing from you in particular. now, of course, to the war in ukraine. ahead, the first russian put on trial for war crimes since this invasion began has now pleaded guilty. and what he said in court to the widow of the civilian he murdered and what this trial may
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the center of months of heavy fighting. there's new video that appears to show the few remaining ukrainian fighters -- look at this -- walking out of the plant. what happens to soldiers after the fight is very much at the center of this conflict. look no further than a kyiv courtroom just happening today. a 21-year-old russian soldier stood trial in the first war crime case since russia invaded. his name vadim shishmarin, and he pleaded guilty to shooting an unarmed 62-year-old civilian. >> i'm sorry, and i sincerely repent. i was nervous the moment it happened. i didn't want to kill, but it happened, and i do not deny it. >> shishmarin's lawyer claims he was in, quote, a state of stress, unquote, through the nature of combat and the pressure from his commander. these proceedings are a bit unusual. we often don't see war crimes trials until many years after the atrocities. robert goldman knows the unique
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challenge of prosecuting war crimes, and he joins me now. i'm glad you're here. there's been a lot of questions about this war crime trial and about war crimes in general, not the least of which is, is it unusual to swrun in the midst of the war still going on? >> yes, laura, highly unusual. as a matter of fact, with research that has been done, i've only seen an example of one such trial that occurred, i believe, in bosnia, in the midst of the wars with the break up of the former yugoslavia in the 1990s. other than that, you're absolutely right. there generally have been ad hoc tribunals such as for the former yugoslavia, rwanda, the special chambers, and came bodia, that many cases have taken place
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years, if not decades, after those hostilities, the wars are over. >> the word "tribunal" piques my curiosity here because we're not seeing a military tribunal here. we're seeing a civilian court, a civilian judge deciding these issues. that strikes me as a little odd, is it not? >> yes, and you've hit on a very good point. the choice of forum and so forth is not something that is left to the particular state. russia and the ewe ukrukraine a parties to the forging of the g convention but specifically the geneva convention sets forth very specific rules governing not only the treatment but trials and the kinds of courts in which prisoners of war can be tried. you can well imagine that p
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prisoners of war in the terribly vulnerable position. they've been out on the battlefield. their job is to kill the enemy, and now they're captured by the enemy. so, the geneva -- the third geneva convention -- expressly provides that prisoners of war solely should be tried by a military tribunal subject to one exception. it's extremely narrow and precise. and that is if the existing law in the country -- that is of the detaining power, in this case, ukraine -- expressly provides that their own soldiers would be tried by the same tribunal on the same charge. and that is something that would be quite surprising. >> wait, i'm sorry, do you mean -- excuse me. do you mean that they would have to have in their laws in ukraine that if one of their own soldiers were captured by russia that russia must be able to have
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a civilian trial? or you're saying they have to be tried within ukraine as well? >> no, no. what i'm saying is that they would -- in other words, what -- what the law says is that if they try -- that is, ukraine could try their own soldier who committed in the course of armed conflict a war crime or charged with a war crime. if their local courts, their civilian courts under the law as it existed and so forth at the time, they could try their own soldiers for that offense. then they could try a prisoner of war. that is an enemy combatant who is now a prisoner of war in a civilian court. that is a very narrow exception. >> robert, when you think about where -- >> and this is because -- >> excuse me.
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i want to follow that thread. but i also want to understand for many people listening, the idea of him being -- he said he was under the pressure of a commanding officer to do what he has done. i'll let everyone judge whether that is acceptable or not. but the idea of pursuing the charge against him versus a higher up, this is awe lingering question for people over the course of history, the idea of whether to prosecute the one who followed the orders or the one who gave the order? is that distinct here and the reasoning for why to pursue him? >> well, look, the law envisions that during armed conflict all the parties should have commanding control. and if war crimes are committed, they should punish their own troops. in the event that they don't do it and there is evidence that an enemy soldier who is now given prisoner of war status and so forth has committed that crime, then you can lawfully bring those charges. the issue about higher ups is
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something that is being investigated presently by the international criminal court has some 40-plus investigators. this is a problem, however, because russia is not a party to the statute of the international criminal court, nor is ukraine. but ukraine has consented to the investigation. these are, however, what are known as crimes of universal jurisdiction, which means any state which is a party to the geneva conventions, could try the soldiers or the higher ups. >> interesting. >> but the reality is they're trying the individual right now. and he has to be afforded a fair and regular trial. >> robert goldman, we're going to contain a lean on your expertise in this area, particularly given this person has pleaded guilty but there are still others who may yet be tried. we'll see if those international
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rules are abided by and how. thank you for your expertise. i appreciate it. now to this thing you've been seeing in headlines. it's probably made you a little bit kweez zi and a little bit afraid. the monkeypox outbreak tonight reaches nearly a dozen countries including this one. in the pictures -- i'm not going to lie to you. they're not pleasant. and i hate to even look over there knowing that's a small hand of a child. and of course one global health official fears the spread could speed up this summer. so, how much should we worry about this on top of everything else we're worrying about?
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and in rural areas. it's why thurmond helped deliver more than a million devices and connected 900,000 students to broadband over the last two years - to enable online learning. more than 45,000 laptops went to low-income students. re-elect tony thurmond. he's making our public schools tonight, health officials in new york city are treating a patient with a, quote, presumptive positive, unquote, case of monkeypox. if confirmed, it would be the second case in this country, with six others being still investigated. and today the world health organizations reported well over 100 confirmed or suspected cases in 11 different countries. so, how concerned should americans be?
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joining me now is dr. peter hotez, codirector of the center for vaccine development at texas children's hospital. dr. hotez, i'm so used to talking to you about the covid-19 vaccination and the pandemic that is still ongoing and now we have to adhanom key pox to it. i look at these pictures. this doesn't look pleasant, and it looks extraordinarily painful as well. how nervous should we be here? >> well, this is -- you can't really compare the two. this is orders of magnitude less. we are getting multifocal outbreaks in multiple countries meaning historically we've seen transmission in nigeria and democratic republic of congo. what's unusual here is there's been transmission of this monkeypox outside of nigeria, in several different countries, and there's been ongoing transmission in several different countries. solve, we have 17 suspects or
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actual cases in montreal, around 20 cases in spain, several cases in the uk, sweden, and now australia, and two cases in the u.s. so, trying to understand how all that unfolded and what level of transmission is going on within these other new countries in europe, australia, and the u.s. is what's under active investigation right now. >> and you're right to distinguish it from covid-19 in the sense of the fatality risk in particular of monkeypox. so, do we know -- to date, no one has actually died in the outbreak in comparison of course to covid-19. but i'm not clear on what the symptoms are. obviously the apparent pos tulles around the body would be a clear indication. are there things that would predate during the incubation period, for example, that we should be aware of? >> one of the big features is swollen lymph nodes around the test, so wellings around the
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neck, under the chin, the shoulders, that would be potentially a tip off. and the fact that there is a characteristic rash -- i know it sounds kind of strange but in some ways that's a blessing in terms of being able to trace all the contacts. just the opposite with covid-19. you have up to 40% of the cases with no symptoms at all. it makes contact tracing at all. here with monkeypox, any new case you have, you can readily detect and isolate the contacts and vaccinate them or treat them. and the fact that monkeypox is far, far less transmissible than covid-19 certainly in its current form, although those things add up to the fact that it's unlikely we're going to see anything near the level of transmission and the level of cases that we've seen for covid-19. so, hopefully this could be self-limited between combination contact tracing and/or vaccination. >> so, how do you treat it? are the vaccines that are in existence right now -- you said
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you could treat through a vaccination. obviously we've thought about vaccines as not necessarily stopping the infection at times with covid-19, for example, but being able to reduce the severity of it at times. is there a vaccine out right now for monkeypox? >> well, there's actually a couple of options. one, there are actually antiviral drugs that were developed for smallpox. remember, all -- and there are at least two or three vaccines. the reason we have them was not for monkeypox. back in the 2000s when barda was started, the whole idea was we were worried from the old ussr there were bioterrorist, biowarfare laboratories that were weaponizing smallpox. that's when barda started to stock pile smallpox vaccines and smallpox treatments. and those seem to cross over relatively well toward monkeypox. there are at least three vaccines. one is the old smallpox vaccine.
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there's a newer one that's nonreplicating. and that may be important especially in anyone who has coinfection with hiv. you definitely want to use the non-replicating vaccine. and we have a couple of antiviral treatments. all of those things add up to the fact we already have drugs and vaccines ready to go from the get go. we have ways to identify patients, isolate patients , do the contact tracing. all of those stack the deck in terms of being able to limit the spread of this, especially in countries that well-functioning health systems such as western europe and australia and the u.s. and canada. >> thank you for that silver lining if there is some ability to treat and contain. dr. peter hotez, thank you so much. the next big election and referendum on donald trump is days away in georgia. can the republican who beat stacey abrams for governor win the nomination again after standing up to donald trump? we're talking about brian kemp. is trump effectively abandoning
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georgia's republican gubernatorial primary will headline another big election day this coming week, tuesday. donald trump's pick, david perdue, way down and the gap only widening. so, what's it mean if this key state winds up looking a lot like a repeat of the 2018 governor's race between brian kemp and stacey abrams? with me now, cnn's political commentator ashley anderson, the former director for the biden/harris campaign and an obama white house staffer. also washington corporate lobbyist and former trump campaign adviser david irvin. can you guys have a longer
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title? i had a whole thing on monkeypox. i'm still scratching. listen. welcome back. i'm glad you're both here. i have to ask you what's going on with georgia and the race coming up. david, as you know, it was personal for trump. i mean, he had invested a lot in the georgia races, and his man is down. what do you make of >> very much so. laura, it's very interesting, right? the president -- if you can pick one politician across the united states that donald trump went out with both barrels, full donald trump, full maga, it was brian kemp in georgia. it kind of just bounced off. kemp is up by 30 points and by all accounts will creuise to a win. interestingly, though, trump remains very, very popular in georgia. 80% popular with republicans. 60 republicans in a recent poll
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said david perdue made no difference in who they will choose. david kemp did a good job as governor and he will probably be governor of georgia again. >> he's right,' i've been in george recently, and the number of billboards i saw was like donald trump had put his stamp on everything again. but brian kemp is so non grata to donald trump. as much as people were saying don't relitigate, but the idea of the litigation about their prior, you know, head-to-head matchup. why is that being looked at not in the same vein as the big lie phenomenon that donald trump has spoken about in jogeorgia? >> i think what happened in
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georgia in 2018 is drastically different than what donald trump and his big lie around 2020. so stacey abrams knows she's not the governor of georgia and she doesn't say she is the governor of georgia, but what she does say is voter suppression probably prevented her from winning that race if you remember signature matching and closing polling locations and even after polling locations closed, canvassing all the precincts to make sure every single vote was counted. she want to ensure that every eligible voter who voted and who registered, they were able to cast their vote and their vote was counted. trump, on the other hand, in 2020 he didn't want that and he emphasized that again when he said to dr. oz, make sure you won, don't make them count all the ballots. stacey abrams is a person who just wants every vote to be counted, and i think that's the
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difference. >> david, you're shaking your head. you don't agree with that assessment. tell me why. >> laura, i'm not here to relitig reli relitigate that race, either. i think brian kemp cleaned up the voter rolls with his secretary of state. if stacey abrams couldn't win then, she's facing a very, very strong headwind going into this fall. you look at president biden's numbers, they're terrible. when biden came to georgia, stacey abrams was conveniently absent. she didn't participate in the biden presser because she knows he's doing so poorly. if she didn't fare very well in the last race against kemp, she won't this time, either. the people are ultimately going to be deciders of that litigation when they go to the polling place and i think they'll go back to the governor's camp in georgia.
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>> you talk about a tailwind helping. a tailwind is only if you don't have a brick wall of suppression in front of you. either way you're going to hit something in front of it. your point is that her cause was the notion of democratic principles in terms of one person, one vote counted. the big lie is premised on the notion of just get me a couple more votes here and i can declare victory. why is it that brian kemp seems to be, of all the people at all the bars, all the people walking in the world, the casablanca notion here, why is the big lie not gaining traction for pe rdu? >> we have to remember that perdue lost in 2020 and he wasn't able to pull it over the finish line along with the president and donald trump. i also think that even though
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brian kemp doesn't have trump's endorsement, he definitely does things on an idealogy that are very similar to trump. he just passed our signed into law sweeping suppressor laws. they tried to make it a felony to pass out water to people standing in line to vote. he passed controversial education policy around how you can discuss race in the classroom. he has assigned legislation that targets transgender athletes in school. so he might not have the trump flag waving at his rallies, but he definitely has tendencies that our former president has, and that could still resonate with the base, and we can't hide that kemp already beat stacey abrams which voters took notice of. >> i wish i could keep you --
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very quick, david. >> i'm just going to point out, there are two democratic senators currently serving the united states senate from georgia. you can have voter suppression. it doesn't seem to affect the u.s. senate race, so i'm kind of confused by that. kemp is going to be governor again because he's a good candidate and he's a good governor. >> we'll see what happens in georgia. your observations are noted. we'll be right back. like what you see abe? yes! 2b's covered with zero overdraft feeses when he overdraws his account by fifty bucks or less. and 2c, well, she's not going to let a lost card get her stressed. am i right? that's right. that's because these neighbors all have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours.
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with prop a is essential to ensuring everyone in san francisco can get to work and school safely and reliably. prop a improves pedestrian and bike safety throughout san francisco. prop a benefits everyone in every neighborhood, regardless of their income. vote yes, and soon we'll all see the impact of a everywhere. thank you for watching. i'll be back monday night. "don lemon tonight" starts right now. hi, don lemon. >> laura, i love having you here to talk about this legal stuff. one big purveyor is rudy giuliani now speaking to the committee and for quite some time. the significance, please. >> first of all, nine hours of rudy giuliani talking to the

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