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tv   Campbell Brown  CNN  August 18, 2009 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT

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tomorrow. for all of us, we thank you for watching. good night from new york. coming up next, "campbell brown." tonight, here are the questions we want answers. who's telling the truth and who is telling lies when it comes to health care reform? we're cutting through the noise to get to the facts. plus tonight's news maker, michael jackson's doctor. he was with him when he died and could now face criminal charges. he is finally breaking his silence. >> i have done all i could do. i told the truth, and i have faith the truth will prevail. reality bites, richard hatch, one survivor ended up in prison and survived. but now says he's broke. we have his story. and aliens and ufo
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sightings, the british government releases their secret x-files. >> either this happened as the witnesses claim and a ufo landed near the military bases or all these americans air force personnel were hallucinating or making it up. >> tonight's big question, will conspiracy theorys be put to rest once and for all? hey, everybody. those are the big questions tonight. but we begin as we always do with "the mash-up." the stories making an impact right now. we're watching it all so you don't have to. the white house tonight feeling the heat on health care, an angry right, angry left, and press corps demanding answers. >> it's our job to clear up any confusion about where the president stands right now and frankly a lot of people aren't sure if he's privately given up
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on including a government-run insurance option. this hour, we're drilling down on that question and whether the white house is trying to have it both ways. >> the president's saying this is essential. the public option is essential. people voted for this president because he said it was essential. and now suddenly because the republicans are jumping up and down and calling this some end of the world death panel for grandma, all of a sudden it's no longer essential. >> but not essential means it really doesn't matter whether it's going to be there or not. and it seems the last 48 hours the white house has been spending a lot of time trying to get the messaging right. you've got disarray of the democratic party and i think the leadership of the white house is failing right now. >> that's right. the white house stepping into a whole host of problems this weekend. health secretary kathleen sebelius on cnn's "state of the union," saying a public option
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isn't and here's the word, essential to health care reform. today a full court pr press, white house spreading across the tv universe declaring the public option the president's preference and insisting that nothing has changed here, nothing to see here, folks, very much on message today. >> the administration's position is unchanged. >> absolutely nothing has changed. >> the president and all the folks who have worked for him has been consistent on this. >> nothing has changed. >> that's what we said in june, in july. >> that's what we've been saying since day one. >> tough to convince skeptics? well, the white house's problem here, videotape don't lie as john stewart showed us last night. >> very clear about the fact we should have a public plan. >> the public option whether we have it or don't have it is not the entirety of health care reform. >> yes, we can. unless you don't think we should, then we'll do something different. how do i know? smoke bombs.
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>> stewart clearly puzzled there last night delivering a mini sermon to the white house saying the president to get his act together. >> mr. president, i can't tell if you're a jedi ten steps ahead of everything or if this whole health care thing is getting you a little bit. why is this so hard? why can't you guys stay on message? remember the bush team? a little bit of discipline, repetition, they sold us a war nobody wanted and nobody needed. must invade iraq. must invade iraq. salesmanship. those guys could sell ice cubes to eskimos. the democrats i don't think could sell eskimos what they need, insulation, heating apparat apparatus, i'm not that familiar with what eskimos need. >> john stewart not the only one who thinks the president is off his game. so does deepak chopra.
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in afghanistan tonight, a sharp spike in violence with the election just two days away now. to afghanistan right now, militants today carried out two attacks, one on the presidential palace of hamid karzai, the other, a suicide bombing. >> reporter: car parts scattered everywhere, a bullet proof windshield from an armored vehicle, evidence of a powerful blast. >> reporter: it is the latest and worst in a series of taliban attacks. >> reporter: with the election looming, the taliban has increased its number of attacks from 32 a day to 48. >> reporter: and this isn't instilling fear in the afghan people, particularly those close affected. when i spoke to those injured, a 21-year-old girl from saturday's blast, she told me she had a voting card, wanted to go out and vote, but that blast made the decision for her. >> nato commanders say they do still expect a high turnout in thursday's election. switching over to jackson
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world now where today the man at the center of the investigation into the king of pop's death finally breaks his silence. only one of today's developments in this very strange story. watch. >> the doctor was with michael jackson when he died is now speaking publicly for the first time since the singer's death, dr. conrad murray has just released a video message. >> i have done all i can do. i told the truth, and i have faith the truth will prevail. god bless you. and thank you. >> michael jackson will be buried next week in los angeles. and representatives say a private ceremony will be held august 29th on what would have been jackson's 51st birthday. only family and close friends will attend, but accommodations will be made for the media nearby. >> you are looking at michael jackson's most famous performance on a tv special 1983 to celebrate motown's 25th
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anniversary. that's where he debuted his famous moonwalk and what would become one of his most iconic fashion accessorieaccessories, sequin glove. that is going on the auction block. >> sales of all things jackson just through the roof. since the pop star's death. over in the parallel universe of reality tv, original survivor winner richard hatch, he is speaking out for the first time since he got out on prison on tax evasion charges. grilled by matt lauer on nbc's "today" show. >> i think there's people out there who want to believe you're guilty. >> i think so. >> is perhaps your best defense this, that who would be so stupid? who would be so stupid to win $1 million in front of 40 or 50 million people and then not claim it on their income taxes? >> i know people think i'm arrogant, but i don't think
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people think i'm stupid. they know i'm relatively bright. >> are you able to support yourself? you're still under house arrest, do you have enough of that money left? or has it all gone to legal expenses? >> imagine the financial devastation. that money, that money was in 2000, today's 2009, and to have been removed from your family for the past four years, taken away from any opportunity to make a dime, no, i'm financially devastated. >> hatch insists the judge in his trial discriminated against him because he is gay. and with that, we welcome the newest resident of reality tv land. once the most powerful republican on capitol hill, then he resigned in disgrace, and soon, he'll be dancing with the stars. today tom delay was on good morning america explaining how it all happened. >> why are you doing this? >> i love dancing. you got to be -- you've got to love dancing if you're from
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texas and i've been dancing all my life. i haven't danced for about 20 years, but i love dancing and when the producers for "dancing with the stars" gave me a call, i jumped right at the chance. this is going to be so fun and so crazy. i'm really looking forward to it. >> conservatives can have fun too, you know. >> yes, sir. >> and -- conservatives can let their hair down and open their collar and put on some dancing shoes and get out there on the floor just like the rest of them. >> will you go all the way to sequins? >> i don't know about that. that's up for negotiation. but if i open my shirt, i'll have to get some false hair. >> yeah. really not something we want to see. today delay twitters he's off to meet his dancing partner. he hopes not nancy pelosi. his little joke, his joke, he said that, not we.
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>> this is courtesy of mr. stephen colbert who offers something he can probably appreciate these days, a cold beer. >> you wrote an article describing congress as like going back to college. >> yes. >> congressman, do you want to funnel a beer? do you want to do a beer boing? >> no, thanks. >> come on, man, hold that. >> coors light. >> oh, good from colorado. >> silver bullet. >> all right, do it. all right. get up there. drink! drink [ bleep ]! drink [ bleep ]! drink. >> stephen colbert, everybody. and that is "the mash-up." tonight's big story, health care reform. the truth-o-meter coming up
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next. plus, michael jackson's doctor, will he face criminal charges for the pop star's death? listen. >> because of all that is going on, i'm afraid to return phone calls or use my e-mail. i have done all i could do. i told the truth. and i have faith the truth will prevail. new centrum ultra women's. a complete multivitamin for women. it has vitamin d which emerging science suggests... supports breast health... and more calcium for bone health. new centrum ultra women's. blading anabt wa shur dinbe. toei it's very important for me to uh check my blood sugar before i go on stage. being on when i'm feeling low can be like a rollercoaster. it does at times feel like my body is telling me to do one thing... and, my mind, my heart is telling me to do something else. managing my highs and lows is super important. with my contour meter i can personalize my high/lo settings so it really does micromanage where my blood sugar needs to be.
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( chirp ) even steven. - ( chirp ) mansion. - ( chirp ) good to go. ( grunts ) timber! ( chirp ) boss? what do we do with the shih-tzu? - ( crowd gasps ) - ( chirp ) joint custody. - phew! - announcer: get work done now. communicate in less than a second with nextel direct connect. only on the now network. deaf, hard of hearing and people with speech disabilities access www.sprintrelay.com. with anger escalating on both charges, charges, counter charges, lost in the shuffle, but we are here separating fact from fiction in this make or break month, and bill has been hard at work fact checking all of these claims for us. he is, of course, the editor of politifact.com, which won a pulitzer prize during last year's election. bill, tonight, i know you've got
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your latest and greatest items you've been researching to no end. let's start with number one, the number that president obama has been describing how many americans are uninsured is being contested. let's listen to what he's been saying. >> i don't have to explain to you that nearly 46 million americans don't have health insurance coverage today. in the wealthiest nation on earth, 46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage. >> okay, both the left and the right have said that figure's lightly off. what is it? is it accurate? >> well, it's a little bit off. we gave it a mostly true on our truth-o-meter. and the reason is, he says americans. and actually that number which comes from the census bureau includes about 9.7 million non-citizens. and so it is definitely off. but on the other hand, that number does not include because it's a 2007 number people who
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might have lost their health insurance since 2007 when the number was done and people who have lost their health insurance because of the recession. so we thought that might erase some of the -- of his overstatement. so overall, we decided to give it a mostly true on our truth-o-meter. >> all right, bill. the next one is something that the president of the american medical association said over the weekend that got a lot of attention. caught my attention. he said -- and this is a quote. "in the united states if a woman's pregnant and on the individual market and she tries to get health insurance, that's called a pre-existing condition and it's not paid for." is it true an uninsured pregnant woman really could be denied coverage? >> it is true. we gave this one a true on our truth-o-meter on politifact. we all know there are certain minimum requirements in many states. and i think there's sort of a perception by some people that pregnancy would be covered by most plans. but the key here is that he's
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talking about individual coverage. this is not the coverage that people get if they have an employer who provides health insurance, this is the coverage where if you're uninsured or if you're an independent contractor, you have to go to the individual market, basically go to an insurance company on your own and say insure me. it's in those cases that in most states they do have the ability to just reject you because of a pre-existing condition or at least to say we won't cover that preexisting condition. that's true in 39 states, there are 11 others where the restrictions aren't quite as bad but they can say, well, we wouldn't cover certain things for 6 or 12 months, which in the case of a pregnancy would mean no coverage. he gets a true on the truth-o-meter for that statement. >> and one more here, this is david brooks who said just this weekend, here's again a quote. preventive care does not save the government money. which sounds frankly pretty
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counterintuiti counterintuitive. can this be right? >> this one really surprised us. brooks also gets a true for this one. indeed, the congressional budget office came out with a report last week that said that indeed preventive care is more costly. because if you think about it, to find the people who might be prone to heart disease or diabetes, you have to test a lot of people who may not be prone. and so those costs add up and ultimately the collective cost of doing those tests according to cbo and some other studies we looked at actually outweighs the savings from preventing the, from preventing the heart disease or the diabetes. brooks made the point he thinks it's a good idea to do this preventive testing, but it is still, he's right it's more costly. and this is important in the context of president obama's plan because this has been a big point by obama and the democrats that they're going to save money by doing more preventive care. not true.
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so brooks is right, he gets a true on the truth-o-meter. and somewhat heartening we had a lot of falses and barely trues when i was on the show last week. so we've had an outbreak of truth this week. at least so far. >> fantastic. that is good news. bill adair for us tonight, the editor of politifacts.com, he's going to be with us a lot. thanks so much. >> thanks, campbell. tonight's big question, can dna evidence be fake? a new study shows it can be cooked up in a lab. but does that mean criminals actually could use it to rig a crime scene? >> it could be scary some day if because certainly the ability to make synthetic dna and to spoof such things is certainly technically feasible, it's just not clear whether it is the sort of thing that a criminal would think to do or want to do. e get, our bodies become... less able to absorb calcium. he recommended citracal. it's a different kind of calcium.
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time to check some of the other must-see stories of the day. hln's mike galanos at cnn center with tonight's download. >> hey, campbell, president barack obama and former president bill clinton face to face at the white house today. just minutes ago, the white house released a photo from their big meeting in the real situation room. there it is. joe biden in the middle. the former president briefed president obama on his trip to north korea to secure the release of two american journalists there. the white house says the meeting lasted about 40 minutes and president obama thanked mr. clinton for taking on the mission. no word on what else was said. here's a disturbing one, police in georgia believe an ex-college professor and his wife were killed by a pack of wild dogs. a camera man for cnn affiliate
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shot the video of dogs running loose. this is in lexington, about 80 miles east of atlanta. now a 65-year-old woman was attacked while on a walk near her home, then her 77-year-old husband went looking for her, his body was found near a car. authorities have rounded up about 11 dogs since friday's attack. well, cancer claimed the life of conservative columnist and former cnn "crossfire" co-host robert novak, he was a cnn political commentator as well as a chicago sun times columnist, broke countless stories including the cia leak case when he identified covert agent valerie plame in a column six years ago. doctors diagnosed a malignant brain tumor last year. he was 78. let's talk some football. never say never with nfl legend brett favre. the 39-year-old quarterback unretired again, he's going to play for the vikings three weeks ago he told them he didn't have it, he didn't trust his body. now he's back, wearing the number four and that purple
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helmet, going to make between $10 million and $12 million this year. i'm a big packer fan, pains me to see this. >> a lot of people really bummed out. >> i know it and mark the calendars, it's going to be high drama when favre goes back to green bay november 1st in the dreaded viking purple. that's going to be interesting. >> all right. mike galanos tonight, we will be watching, mike. >> thanks. tonight's news maker, deepak chopra says it's time we take responsibility for our own health care. he's coming up next. plus, can dna evidence be faked? we're going to take a closer look at a new study around the world. during the lexus golden opportunity sales event, you can do both. special lease offers now available on the 2009 is 250. we're shopping for car insurance, and our friends said we should start here. good friends -- we compare our progressive direct rates,
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apples to apples, against other top companies, to help you get the best price. how do you do that? with a touch of this button. can i try that? [ chuckles ] wow! good luck getting your remote back. it's all right -- i love this channel. shopping less and saving more. now, that's progressive. call or click today. ...or if you're already sick... ...or if you lose your job. your health insurance shouldn't either. so let's fix health care. if everyone's covered, we can make health care as affordable as possible. and the words "pre-existing condition" become a thing of the past... we're america's health insurance companies. supporting bipartisan reform that congress can build on.
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it's critical that i stick to my medication. i cannot be one of the 61 million americans who do not refill their prescriptions on time. readyfill at cvs pharmacy automatically refills my prescriptions and reminds me to pick them up. you mean, reminds me to pick them up. [ chuckles ] stop by your local cvs pharmacy to ask if readyfill is right for you, and get a $25 coupon book. readyfill, only at cvs pharmacy. in a new op ed deepak chopra claims that he daniel in the lion's den. it's underattacked by greedy special interests.
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he's joining us from san diego to explain. welcome to you, good to see you. >> it's good to see you, campbell. >> you are calling, i know for a public awareness campaign to try to sell people on the need for health care reform in this country, but, you know, president obama's been out there talking about this every day for weeks now. you don't think he's getting the job done? >> i think president obama is doing a great job, but there are special interest groups who are taking the attention away from the facts. the facts are that we spend $2.4 trillion, more than any other country in the world on health care. we rank 32 in health performance, we rank 72 in health levels. we spend $6 billion on advertising, $1.4 million a day on lobbyists in washington trying to influence people in government who we have elected to work against us.
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sarah palin and senator grassley when they talk about death panels, they are fear mongering, i think people should be aware that most of the interventions at the end of life do not prolong life, they prolong suffering. they are unlimited untolled suffering and carnage on our people while benefitting special interest groups to the tune of billions of dollars. there's something drastically wrong with our health care system and unless we become aware. you know that 90% of the health care dollars that are spent are on preventive illnesses. >> so explain this to me because i want to get into the specifics here. you recently wrote that we need a health care system that reduces fear as well as cost. what do you mean by that? >> well, you know, our health care industry is the only industry that creates a demand when there is no need to create
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a demand. you know capitalism is built on supply-demand theory, but we doctors have the privilege of generating our own demand by writing a prescription or writing a procedure. the most devastating and expensive health care technology is a physician's pen and a prescription pad. you know, 80% of the drugs we use are of optional and marginal benefit. we spend $700 billion a year on unnecessary tests. the next time you go to a doctor for a routine examination, there's a 43% chance that you will be prescribed an unnecessary diagnostic procedure or a test. you know, we spend 2.5 million unnecessary surgeries each year, hysterectomies, knee operations,
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angioplasty, which do nothing to help the patient. unless we are honest enough to look at our own self and how we're generating this demand, we could be saving $1 trillion a year. >> how much is also the individual's responsibility? taking responsibility for your own wellness? i know you've talked about this. >> it's very important, campbell, but the individual has to be aware. we have to create a public awareness campaign, which is the only missing part. if people would realize that they could prevent 80% to 90% of chronic illness just by doing three things, exercise, diet, and stress management and you would regulate upregulate the genes that are responsible for cancer, for heart disease, for inflammation. we know that the human body's not a structure, it's a process. and if you understand the process, we can influence the outcome of illness and prevent much of this illness at no cost whatsoever just by being more aware.
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>> individual responsibility. deepak chopra making his case tonight. thank you so much for your time, appreciate it. >> thank you. thank you. when we come back, ever since michael jackson's shocking death, his doctors had pretty much nothing to say publicly until today. he posted this message to all of his well-wishers. take a look. >> your messages give me strength and courage and keep me going. they mean the world to me. please, don't worry, as long as i keep god in my heart and you in my life, i will be fine. we decide to turn in early. we just know. announcer: finding the moment that's right for you both can take some time. that's why cialis gives men with erectile dysfunction options: 36-hour cialis or cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment is right.
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didn't you notice this was weird? no. they taste fresh because you make them fresh. healthy choice fresh mixers. in the soup or pasta aisle. sfx: chear that?can shaking that's the sound of people saving. saving money, saving time, and saving for the future. regions makes it simple - starting with lifegreen checking and savings - featuring free convenient e-services, up to a $250 annual savings account bonus and a free personal savings review. so make the switch today - and get into the rhythm of saving. regions - it's time to expect more. today for the first time since michael jackson died, his personal physician broke his silence. murray, of course is at the center of the investigation. federal drug agents have searched his home and clinics in two states, but now his lawyers have posted a one-minute video
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from murray on youtube. we want you to see it all uncut. here's dr. murray in his own words. >> i want to thank all of my patients and friends who have sent such kind e-mails, letters, and messages to let me know of your support and prayers for me and my family. because of all that is going on, i'm afraid to return phone calls or use my e-mail. therefore, i recorded this video to let all of you know that i have been receiving your messages. i have not been able to thank you personally, which as you know is not normal for me. your messages give me strength and courage and keep me going. they mean the world to me. please, don't worry, as long as i keep god in my heart and you in my life, i will be fine. i have done all i could do. i told the truth, and i have
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faith the truth will prevail. god bless you and thank you. >> with me now in los angeles, inside edition chief correspondent and former cnn anchor jim moret, and jeffrey toobin joining us, as well. roland, you heard conrad murray, what was your take? >> smart move on his take. we've been watching this grainy video of him going into his home, the helicopter shots, so this is going to be the video folks will be playing all across the world. michael jackson was searched by the police officer, when his body was photographed, what did he do? he bought satellite time and broadcast his video talking to his fans. you take the first shot. >> jim, you were more struck by what dr. murray didn't say. in what way? >> i didn't think he said anything of substance. he didn't say anything about michael jackson. he didn't say this was my friend, this was my patient, i did everything i could.
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he clearly has a lawyer, you don't want your client to admit anything. he didn't say anything but he's fearful, invokes the name of god and says don't worry about me. and he seemed very detached to me. and i understand the pr move in putting him out there and this person who has been vilified in the press, but i don't know that i agree with roland. >> i don't think it matters much. although roland mentioned one of the two rules of crime on tv. which is if they show you with a helicopter shot or show you in slow motion, that means you're guilty. that always happens in tv. that's like one of the laws, right? but in any case, i don't think this matters one way or the other. what's going to matter is the evidence. is there evidence to prosecute this guy? and i continue to believe it's going to be a very hard case to prosecute him. >> video or no video. >> video or no video -- >> but he's trying to establish his compassion. listen to what he's been saying, i've been getting your e-mails and phone calls. there are people out there two
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actually care about me. >> do you think he's anticipating an arrest? >> there's no doubt. this wasn't just him swinging a web cam around, this was a professionally produced video. they know what's coming down the pike. >> they have searched his house, his office, they have searched the pharmacies. the cops don't do that unless they are about to bring a case -- >> and jim, you i believe talked to a defense attorney who says if this goes to trial this could hurt him? >> yeah. to be honest with you, i think jeff hit it on the head. the bottom line is that this video isn't going to make any difference in the courtroom. this was solely for public opinion, not criminal courts. i think it's going to come down to the evidence, i think that the fact that he seems detached to me, it put me off. i really would like for him to have said something, at least acknowledging that this was his patient that died on his watch. you know, it's -- everybody's going to interpret this differently. i don't think it does much for him positive or negative, but
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certainly nothing in the -- >> come on, not everybody is as good as jim moret on tv -- >> come on, jeff, come on. >> but it changes the story. >> everyone is now covering this video, it's the entirety. that's what you want. he's being seen in a different light other than oh, michael jackson's doctor, what was he doing? that's the whole point of the video. >> but we don't know what he was doing. why didn't he call 911? what was going on? he didn't answer a single question. >> so regardless of what happened so jeff, in a criminal case, could the family file a wrongful death suit against him? a civil suit? >> they could. but remember, this is the doctor who has declared bankruptcy, who have probably -- doesn't have much money to his name. the jackson family dealing with hundreds of millions of dollars. what's the point of suing him? especially -- >> book deal. >> a book deal? think about it. he could write a book.
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>> if he gets sued? >> if you sue him, he gets to depose everybody about michael jackson's drug use. i don't think the family wants that. >> very quickly, before we go, jim we god word today that michael jackson is finally going to be laid to rest. just give us briefly what you know. >> finally hooe going to be laid to rest in forest lawn in glendale, about 15 miles from the cemetery where he's currently at. it's a beautiful private mausoleum, it'll be kept private. the public cannot have access to this area. the ceiling has a recreation michael angelo's painting. it's a beautiful serene fitting place for michael jackson, certainly in the view of his family. >> all right. jim moret for us tonight. thanks, guys. >> thanks so much. true or false, dna evidence is 100% trustworthy and full proof.
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the answer true, some scientists claim they can fake your or anyone else's unique genetic code when we come back. i would say convenience is something that the bank of america really has the market cornered on. let me make it easier for you. let me show you how i can make it easier for you. online banking is going to be your best friend; it's going to help you to manage your money. it has an alert system that can text message you. we have great new image atms. it will give you a receipt which has a copy of the check you deposited. you're in control of your finances. now when you talk about convenience, you measure us up to everyone else. well, you'll see we stand a head of the curve.
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here is a story you'll be
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telling your friends about tomorrow. scientists have made a startling discovery about dna evidence, they say. it turns out that genetic fingerprints used to solve all of those murders, crack all of those cold cases and free all of those wrongly convicted suspects can be faked in a laboratory and even planted theoretically at a crime scene. cnn's jim clancy shows us how. >> reporter: the fast-paced crime series "csi" weaves the tales with recurring scenes depicting science. reenforces the notion once the dna evidence is in, the crime is solved. but what would heratio kaine say if we told him his evidence was forged? his suspect framed? >> i say bring it on. >> scary. it's absolutely scary because
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standard procedures for identification of dna cannot differentiate between dna which is natural or artificial dna which was manufactured in a lab. >> reporter: he published a paper in a respected journal showing how laboratory manufactured dna was indistinguishable from real dna. the possibilities are scary. could dna be manufactured in a lab and then spread around a crime scene? by developing a test that does distinguish between the two the company stands to make millions. but some scientists are skeptical a clear and present danger exists. >> it could be scary some day if because certainly the ability to make synthetic dna and spoof such things is certainly technically feasible. it's just not clear whether it is the sort of thing that a criminal would think to do or
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want to do. >> reporter: questioning the motives for releasing such news and possible turmoil on the criminal justice system, some forensic experts decline to comment on this story for cnn. but the scientists insist it isn't about money, it's about a loophole that scientists never closed and never wanted to admit. >> the good part of this news is that this loophole can be easily and quickly closed. and maintain the gold standard of dna fingerprinting, which is far better than the traditional fingerprinting or other ways of human identification. >> reporter: george church says after reading the study, he's convinced that laboratories are already equipped to even get around this new test or assay. >> almost anything you can imagine turning into an assay could be spoofed to say one thing is much harder to spoof than another i think is a very premature conclusion. >> reporter: it is not premature
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to tell you it's easier than ever for someone to get a tiny sample of your dna, reproduce vials of it in a laboratory. there's no case of it being used to frame a suspect. the professor church of harvard says this story, this news, inevitably does bring us closer to that first case. jim clancy, cnn, atlanta. >> so could this be a game-changer for cops, prosecutors, even criminals? defense attorney michael kardoza, and back with me, jeff toobin here in new york. give me your take, could this pose some real problems here? >> i'm not worried about it. dna is still the gold standard. it is better than fingerprints, better than bite marks, better than hair and fiber, and the theoretical possibility that someone might be able to fabricate dna in a laboratory. you know, remember, you can always plant evidence. anybody who read "presumed innocent" or saw the movie knows
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that you can plant evidence at a crime scene. that hasn't changed, but the scientific basis for dna is exquisitely refined and this theoretical possibility i don't think is much of a worry. >> michael, though, i know you're a little bit more concerned about what this could mean, how it could impact investigations. >> well, as a criminal defense attorney now, i sort of like it. it opens up an entire avenue of cross-examination that was never there before. can you imagine their expert, the prosecutor's expert on the stand? we will now be able to ask them, it's possible to fabricate dna. the marketing that's going on here by this company, though, i think is fabulous. because they're saying, look, here's how you fabricate dna, and oh, by the way, we have the product that will show the difference between a true dna and a fabricated dna. so this won't be accepted right away, but it will give a lot of defense attorneys something to talk about in court. it will make prosecutors work a
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lot harder, it might make our job a tiny bit easier right now. >> well, you make two interesting points i want to follow up on, michael. first of all, why wouldn't it happen right away? why wouldn't a defense attorney start raising this before a jury soon? >> you will start raising it, but the question will be can the prosecution bring the test in that shows that it's fabricated dna? because there's something and i'm sure familiar with it the kelly frey test and that's will that test be accepted in the scientific community? it's going to open up all sorts of legal issues. i guarantee you some defense attorney listening tonight that has a dna case going on right now will probably be pulling this article offline tonight and be asking the prosecutor's dna expert about this and it may in some jurors raise a reasonable doubt. >> let me follow up or have you, jeff, follow up. you may want to question the motives perhaps of this company and their marketing plan.
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if that may be what's behind this, them trying to promote this idea for their own business. >> well, i don't think there's any doubt that that's why they did this is to promote their -- this product that supposedly can tell the difference. that doesn't make them wrong, it just explains their motives. but i think we need to keep in mind that in the history of forensics and dna, there has never been a case where this has even been suggested as a possibility that manufactured dna was substituted for real dna. you know, so this is a pretty good record. you know, sure, defense attorneys should use it in cross-examination and try to raise a doubt, but how much doubt will it really raise? >> well, it'll be interesting, it'll be interesting, perhaps, michael to see who the first defense attorney is who tries this. fair enough? >> probably someone in trial right now. >> i think michael's absolutely right about that. >> all right. >> you know, you go with what you have. >> michael cardoza along with jeff toobin on this interesting story.
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thanks, guys. appreciate it. >> you're welcome. tonight, we are talking with the man who helped shed some light on the hundreds of ufo sightings reported in britain. all of them kept secret until now. the cat is out of the bag. >> there were these small number, the 5% or so where it did seem we had strong evidence that structured craft were performing speeds and maneuvers that we couldn't match. multivitamin in a drink mix.s with more calcium and vitamin d... to support bone and breast health... while helping you hydrate. one a day women's 2o. refreshingly healthy.
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the british government is continuing to declassify and make public some records it's been holding close to the vest about ufo sightings during the '80s and '90s. there are few surprises in the so-called x-files. take a look. >> files detailing hundreds of ufo sightings reported to britain's defense ministry are now being released online. >> the release of more than
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4,000 pages of documents related to ufo sightings revealed no fewer than 800, 800 alleged encounters over the last 20 years. >> reporter: 1996 was the bumper alien year, 609 sightings up five fold from the year before. 19996 was also the year the tv show "the x-files" was at its peak. that same year will smith battled aliens in independence day. coincidence? >> we had the chance this evening to talk with one of the men who helped investigate some of these astonishing reports, nick pope spoke to us earlier from london. now, you were part of this effort to track ufo sightings and i know 90% of the time it was due to factors like weather or an airplane or satellite. but give us examples of the kind of reports that you were looking into that were unexplained. >> well, the cases that were
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most interesting to us at the ministry of defense were the sorts of cases where ufos were seen by police officers or pilots and indeed where they were tracked on radar. now a good example is a case from 1993 where i led the investigation and a ufo flew directly over two air force bases in england. and a report on that went up to the assistant chief of the air staff, one of britain's most senior military officers. here we had huge triangular shaped craft just flying over large parts of the country. with total impunity. >> what do you think it was? >> well, we don't know to this day. and these -- the case file on this incident is one of the files that's been open to the public. and there's a marvelous quote in it where my head of division briefs these senior military officers and says in summary there is some evidence to suggest that an unidentified
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object or objects flew over the united kingdom on the night in question. and frankly we didn't know what else to say. we'd eliminated all of the conventional explanations and left with a complete mystery. >> one of britain's most famous uso -- ufo sightings called the rendleshem incident was reported by an american air force commander stationed there. explain to us what he reported. >> britain's most compelling ufo case and actually on the first night, it was claimed that a ufo had actually landed. and some of the united states air force personnel who were based in england at these air force bases got close enough to touch this thing to see strange markings on the side that they likened to egyptian -- assessed radiation levels taken at the landing site significantly
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higher than background. that's a quote from the government's own assessment. either this happened as the witnesses claimed and the u ifo landed next to one of the political bases at a time of huge international crisis or all of these american air force personnel were hallucinating or making it up. >> and nick, you didn't start off as a ufo researcher per se, in fact you were a skeptic. what was it that made you a believer? >> well, i was a career government man. i served for 21 years in the ministry of defense. i certainly had no belief or no interest in ufos. but the more i looked at these files, i investigated the cases that happened on my tour of duty and began to think while most of them could be easily explained, there were these small number -- the 5% or so where it did seem we had strong evidence that structured craft were performing
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speeds and maneuvers that we couldn't match. did any of us think they were extraterrestrial? no, we weren't paid up believers in little green men, but we didn't have an explanation either. so we just thought that there were some interesting defense and national security issues here. >> and that was nick pope again, a former employee of the ministry of defense in great britain. hurricane bill now a category three and we have good news tonight. weather download coming up next. that can take so much out of you. i feel like i have to wind myself up just to get out of bed. then...well... i have to keep winding myself up to deal with the sadness, the loss of interest, the trouble concentrating, the lack of energy. if depression is taking so much out of you, ask your doctor about pristiq®. (announcer) pristiq is a prescription medicine proven to treat depression. pristiq is thought to work by affecting the levels of two chemicals in the brain,
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the weather making some big headlines tonight, let's go back to hln's mike galanos in atlanta for the weather download. >> hurricane bill's churning out in the atlantic, sustained winds now 125 miles an hour, that makes the it a major category three hurricane. the good news is it's going to curve to the north. so that means as of right now, beaches and shorelines along the eastern sea board are going to get heavy surf. they're headed to martha's vineyard where the surf will be strong. we're going to keep a close eye on this for the nnext few days k at the damage in texas, near the gulf coast. a tornado struck causing part of a roof to collapse. several people were taken to the hospital, thankfully all just minor injuries. campbell, back to you. >> all right, mike, thanks very much. see you tomorrow night. >> all right. nd

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