tv Day 6 of Trial for Derek Chauvin Accused in Death of George Floyd Part 2 CSPAN April 6, 2021 7:21am-8:57am EDT
george floyd continues today at 10 a.m. eastern. watch live coverage of the trial and c-span2 online at c-span.org or listen live on c-span yaid radio app and watch 8 p.m. eastern live c-span2 and c-span.org. ♪ ♪ c-span2 is your unfiltered view of government. created by america's cable television companies, today we're brought to you by these television companies who provide c-span2 to viewers as a public service. ♪ ♪ coming up, highlights from day six of the trial for minneapolis police officer derek chauvin in the death of george floyd on may 25th, 2020. in this portion, the paramedic who treated mr. floyd continues his testimony.
know. >> good morning, doctor. >> good morning. >> thank you for being here today. i hav a few follow-up questions for you kind of picking up right where we left off. you were discussing hypoxia kind of being consistent with asphyxiation right? >> correct. >> hypoxia is lack of oxygen to the brain, correct? >> correct. >> and there are many they thinks that cause hypoxia that would still be considered asphyxiation agreed? >> corrects. >> drug use drugs can cause hypoxia agreed specifically fentanyl how about methamphetamine? >> it can. >> combination of the two? >> yes. >> all right. now, you testified about certain things that happened during your care of mr. floyd.
you're running all sorts of different tests. youu were using the i'm sorry -- >> ultrasound. thank you. >> use the ultra sound you took some blood samples as well. >> correct. >> you took blood gasp samples as well. >> correct from the blood samples yes. >> can you explain what the blood gas samples are. >> so blood gas samples are analyzing different parts of the blood. specifically looking at l the ph or how acidic or basic the blood is. looking at amount of oaks in the blood amount of carbon dioxide. >>rd and they were high in this case. >> do you recall what carbon dioxide level was in the blood gas sample you initially took?
>> i i believe the initial blood gas sample i took was a venus blood gas sample which is less preferablefe opposed to arterial blood gas sample at the time i believe it was a venus sample and i believe the c02 level in that sample was around 100. >> a little over 100 perhaps? >> yeah. rng and that indicates an exceptionally high carbon dioxide level? agreed? es>> yes. >> what would the average if for a healthy person and you did a blood gas sample, what would you expect the c02 or carbon dioxide level to be? >> for healthy individual without any sort of lung disease, you would expect somewhere between 35 and 45. >> and so mr. floyd carbon dioxide level was more than two times which you would normally expect.
>> correct. >> now when you reason that you're doing these blood gas samples is in part to help you analyze and figure out courses of care. agreed? >> yes. >> and that -- that's the carbon dioxide number that we're talking about. is essentially that would be indicative of a person who is notpe eliminating the carbon dioxide, right? or to go about that -- >> correct for it to be high in the blood that means that they are for not eliminating through ventilation orr breathing. >> and that's pointing to a possible respiratory problem right? >> it can. yes. >> and that -- that increase in a carbon dioxide from a 35 to 45 to over 100 that takes some period of time in order to climb that highs. >> yes.
it can happen relatively we cannily depending on how severe the ventilation problem is. but -- >> but it generally it could take 30, 40, even an hour to climb that high. >> it could take that long. it could take much less time. >> the use of fentanyl attribute to high carbon dioxide levels? >> it can cause high carbon dioxide levels. because it suppresses ventilation or breathing. >> so when someone ingest fentanyl they can feel sleepy because of increase carbon dioxide. >> correct. >> that's one of the reason that fentanyl is dangerous because is suppresses the respiratory system. >> primary reason it is so dangerous. yeah. >> now you testified that when
the paramedics gave their report to you, they did not give you any reference as to potential drug use. correct? >> correct. >> they did not tell you they have administered narcan or naloxon during their care correct? >> correct. during course of your care of mr. floyd, you did not administer narcan or narloxon did you? >> no. >> when you talk about those immediately able to reverse the effect that's what that does. narcan reverses the effect of fentanyl toxicity, correct? >> correct. >> when someone has a high carbon dioxide level that causes that person to have a sensation or shortness of breath agreed?
>> yes. >> and that can happen to a person even without stress complicateing their body, right? that respiratory that feeling of inability to breathe? >> yes. >> are you familiar with -- the impact of taking certain narcotics intrareck rectally. >> that can have a more powerful rapid onset of an impact right? >> yes. >> simply because a person has a
history t of chronic opioid abu, does that mean that fentanyl can't kill them? >> no. >> when someone is hyperventilating, anxious and hyperventilating they're actually decreasing their c02 by doing that correct? >> correct. >> some of the considerations that you have to take also would be the potential allusion of a coronary artery right? >> yes. in cases of cardiac arrest, yes. >> and someone who has greater than a 75% acollusion of the right coronary artery that poses a particular risk of fatal vein
>> only a physician can declare a person death, correct? >> depends where you're practicing. >> the state of minnesota. >> yes. >> a paramedic can't declare a person dead? >> no not without consultation with a physician. >> so just to base it on your treatment again of mr. floyd, mr. floyd based on these tests that you did this an elevated c02 level, correct? >> yes. >> and that c02 level was exceptional>> considered to be exceptionallyed high, correct? >> correct. >> and you did not in the course of your consideration --
provide noxon or narcan. >> no. is it fair to say that the administration of narcan if you do not have opioids in your system is a safe procedure. >> yes. >> if you do have opioids in your system administer of narcan could be life changing. life saving. >> yes, not in this case. >> prior to the but again, but the paramedics also based on your information did not administerra narcan. >> correct. >> can i make a clarification. >> there's no question -- >> i'm sorry. >> direct as they wish.
>> you would agree that mr. floyd arrived at hgmc at approximately 8:53 if we've seen evidence previously. >> that sounds correct. >> all right no further questions, your honor. >> mr. blackwell. >> thank you, your honor. there's an answer you wanted to clarify. please do so. >> only to state that narcan administering narcan to someone who potentially suffered a fentanyl overdose once that individual is in cardiac arrest, the administration of narcan could provide no benefit. >> mr. floyd was, obviously, in cardiac arrest. >> correct. >> you ask questions now about
mr. fentanyl causes someone to becomeis sleepy do you remember that? >> yes. >> was he asleep or anything that sounds like sleepy? >> the report was that patient mr. floydd was unresponsive on their arrival and did not have a pulse. and so -- there's no report that he had been sleepy or difficult to arouse per se. >> you asked quite a bit of quite a number of questions about the carbon dioxide content in the blood gas. first off, if a person is suffering from hypoxia that is oxygen deficiency, is that an explanation for a heightened carbon dioxide content in the blood? >> it can be in severe cases.
>> in this case, do you find that the carbon dioxide reading from mr. floyd is really all that significant? >> i felt that it was weak evidence in support of what i was thinking at the time. what's difficult in cases of cardiac arrest is once someone has been in cardiac arrest for an extended period of time, the essentially blood gas that i obtained could be consistent with cardiac arrest from any number of causes. you expect the ph to be low during cardiac arrest i'll provide a little bit of explanation on that. during cardiac arrest there's no blood flow to tissues therefore there's no oxygen getting to the tissues. therefore, the cells will die. they'll release hydrogen ion ph creating acidic
with lack -- that complicates that further because heart toed from whatever cause -- they'll no longer be breathing either. and so -- it would expect that their co2 to be high. again it can vary a little bit depending on the cause by my estimation blood gas in this case wungts very strong ed for one cause over another as far as the o ideology they're asking. >> and it was simply consistent with the fact of cardiac arrest. >> correct. >> the fact that the heart had stopped. >> correct. i felt that highest co2 may have suggested a respiratory cause. >> you were asked questions about -- somebodied a administering
>> thank you, your honor. >> sir what is your current role? >> my current role is chief of the minneapolis police department. >> how long have you held that position? >>ol for approximately three years. >> as chief of the minneapolis police department are you responsible for overseeing the operations of the entire minneapolis police department? >> yes, i am. >> that's highest ranking role at the minneapolis police department is that correct? >> that is correct. >> now, sir, i would like you to first share c a little bit about yourself, with us, how old are you? >> 54 years old. >> what city do you live? >> twin cities. >> where are you from originally? >> minneapolis. >> where did you go to high school? >> minneapolis roosevelt high school. >> and have you ever lived outside of the twin cities minneapolis area? >> i went away for college for
couple of year in michigan. yes. >> where in michigan did you go? >> hancock, michigan. >> which school? >> now university. sorry your honor inn landia university. >> what is highest level of education you have obtained. >> i received my master's degree. >> what degree did you receive in hancock, michigan? >> that degree was a criminal justice degree. >>ic after you completed your college studies you returned to the twin cities area. >> that's correct. >> is that when you first joined the minneapolis police department? >> prior to that i had worked as a community service officer at the minneapolis st. paul airport police department. >> what years did you do that? >> i believe that was from 1987
to 1989. >> in 1989 did you join the minneapolis police department? >> y i did. >> in what capacity? > i started my career as a minneapolis police cadet and then, was hired as a minneapolis police officer that year. >> and chief why did you decide to become a police officer? >> i've been very fortunate to come from a city of very resilient very welcoming -- proud, proud people here in the city of minneapolis, and my dear parents taught all of my siblings and me about the service of love and so i've been very fortunate to eventually join minneapolis police department and give back to the very community, the very city that embraced me has been so good to me. >> you're familiar with the, with the y motto of the minneapolis police department. >> yes. i am. >> what is it? >> that is to protect with
courage and serve with compassion. >> what does that motto mean? >> we are often times the first face of government that our communities will see. and we will often time les meet them at their worst moments. and so the banal that i wear and members of the minneapolis police department wear means a lot. because the first time that we interact with our community members may be the only time that they have an interaction. and so that has to count for something. and so it's very important for us to make sure that we're meetingg our community in that space treating them with dignity. being their guardians, and representing ind all of the men and women that came before us who a serve so proudly on this department. >> sometimes you have to protect
with courage and you have to use force, is that correct? >> at times yes as a police officer you will have to use force. j sometimes serving with compassion means to understand when force is not required. >> rephrase. >> what does it mean to then serve with compassion? >> to serve with compassion to me means to understand and authentic authentically accept that we see our neighbor as ourselves. we value one another. we see our community as necessary. for our existence and so, that's what serving with compassion means to me. >> you've told us a little bit about your educational background. i wouldld like you toking share with all of us a little bit more about your specific law enforcement training. you mention academy is that where you received your law enforcement specific training? >> yes.
it is. >> please describe how that training occurred. >> i was a member of the first minneapolis police cadet program, and along with many other candidate we received training both academic training on the laws of the state of minnesota. we received training as it relates to everything from -- driving and defensive tactics, community relations. and so we also, there's post requirements of minnesota post office standards and training to receive our loons there was a test that we have to take then. there was also scenario base training as well to grade assess how we performed during that training in the academy.
and so that was, that was part of that important training that i received along with my candidates at the academy. >> and that was the very first minneapolis police academy? >> that is correct. >> in a trainee at the academy is that trainee referred to as a cadet? >> that is correct. >> if your employment you've been continuously employed as a minneapolis in the minneapolis police department since was that 1989? >> that is correct, sir. >> has the academy changed since you first were a cadet back in 1989? >> it has, and while i certainly believed that at the time back in 1989 that training was important, like any police department, we should not be monolithic our communities are not monolithic and our training should evolve we should be focusedd on what our national best practice is, and so the
training is that our -- recruits and cadets get today and rightfully so is far better than the training that i received those years ago. >> we'll circle back to that a little bit later. you also mentioned that you take post credit is that right? >> yes. that is correct. >> post stands for peace officer standards andct training. >> that is correct. >> what is the requirement for post training how many courses are you required it to take in a given period? >> a a yeah. every sworn peace officer in the state of minnesota receives their license through the post or paste officer training board ander so, post will change up wh some of those requirements are from time to time. but some of the ones that i think of right now would be -- crisis intervention training,
there's certainly defensive tactic intraing. there's now a form of procedural justice train that is required. and so minneapolis police officers receive that mandate training and we're also very fortunate that we're able to receive additional trainingtu above and beyond what is required of the post board. >> and you personally participate in this training in order to maintain your post license? >> that is correct. >> all right, chief, you began your career in 1989. chief of thee police department here to say you've had many roles within that department.t. is that correct? >> that is correct. >> at this time i would like to publish exhibit 209 if i may. and we'll leave that up -- if we may while you testify, what was the first position you held within the department after youn completed your academy training?
>> i was sworn ins a minneapolis police officer. >> s we've heard that term sworn officer before, can you please explain to the jury what that, what that means? >> w sworn officer after you complete the required educational requirements and certainly after you complete your performance measures at the academy, then you are eventually sworn in at a location, and traditionally our city clerk has been there, and you take an oath. and you're sworn in as an official member of the minneapolis police department but also as a city of minneapolis employee and you search for employment with the city then.y >> and what were your duties thenci as a sworn police officer that rank to the city of minneapolis? >> primary duties was to be a 9-1-1 responder. to work in a geographical area in miption in a dringt at a
precinct, and respond to 9-1-1 calls on a given shifts. >> those also called a calls for service. >> that is correct. >> and as a patrol officer, at that time well how long did you remain a patrol officer? >> approximately five years or so? >> can you tell the jury what geographic district you served as a patrol officer? >> yes. i served -- for short time in the third precinct and then i think the bulk of that time in the minneapolis fourth precinct located north minneapolis. >> well during -- that time period that five years as patrol officer, did you ever have occasion to arrest a suspect? >> yes, yitd. >> how about a noncompliant suspect? >> yes. >> you've had to place hand cuffs on someone who was not compliant? >> yes. >> would you care to guess how
many times?? ?>> i'm sure several. sure several. >> this is something that fairly regularly a fairly regular occurrence as a police officer as a a patrol officer is that right? >> that is correct. >> you've had to be in situations where you've had to use force is that right? >> that is correct. >> havead you also been in situations where r you've had to deeffect late or talk to someone into compliance? >> yes. >> is that regular part of your job as a patrol officer? >> yes, it is. >>s even then from 1989 to approximately 19 -- i'm sorry -- 1994. >> yes. >> then after asserting this period of time as a patrol officer what was your next position at mpd? >> in approximately nibble
1997 -- i was then promoted to the rank of sergeant in the minneapolis police department. >> what do you have to do to be promoted to the rank of sergeant what are the requirements? >> it is a civil service test that you take. and you have to successfully passe, that and receive grade fr that. and i'm trying to recall if there was assessment center that was also part of that testing process. but there's a number of years that you have to least served as a police officer before you can take theea sergeants test and promotion. >> what is the role of a sergeantnt in minutes police department? >> sergeants role and i've often said it is the most influential role in the police department. >> how's so? >>he it's most influential becae you have most proximity to the men and women outy there serving in the community. you're there for them at their role calls. you are a mentor.
you give them guidance. they're going see you far often than they would ever see chief of police, for example. and you setet the tone in the at to do and so, so that's really a really significant role within the minneapolis police department. >>it first line supervisory position? >> yes, it is. >> and sergeants are people that rank with mpd serve in a variety of jobs or functions, is that cent? >> that is correct. >> o how did you serve as a sergeant when you were first promoted? >> i served as a investigator with property courtrooms unit at that time. >> how many people approximately did you supervise? >> at that time i did not supervise any i worked as detective and investigator. >> how long did you hold that position? >> approximately two years.
>> and then after that. > then i served as a sergeant in our minneapolis police department internal affairs unit. >> describe what a sergeant in internal affairs does. >> sergeant internal affairs is -- responsible for investigating cases of misconduct involving -- minneapolis police department employees. and fact finding preparing reports and ultimately submitting those to their supervisor. >> can those investigation it is include inappropriate uses of force or excessive force? >> yes, they can. >> and have you ever evalwaited excessive force case in internalce affairs context? >> i believe i have. yes. >> how long did you serve as sergeant in internal affairs? >> i served in this position
about two years as well. >> and then what did you do? >> then i was promoted to the rank of lieutenant. >> now, what was required of you to promote to lieutenant? >> that also required taking a civil service exam, and i believe certainly at that time assessment going through assessment a center which compromised of scenarios and different type of performance measures for that position. >> through that lieutenant is higher level of management above the first line of sergeant? >> . yes our lieutenant are considered managers within the organization. >> what were your dughts then as a lieutenant? >> i served for a time as overseeing the at that time -- the federal mediation agreement thatim the minneapolis police
department had entered into with the unity community mediation team. and i also served time as a fourth precinct lieutenant on the night shift. >> what is lieutenant in the fourth precinct night shift what do you do? >> you are, you have a team of sergeants and a team of officers on a shift. that particular shift work the night hour in north minneapolis. and really there's lieutenant there to s support the mission f the precinct inspector who is kind of like -- the chief of that precinct. but also then to support your officers on the shift as well. >> how long did you hold that position? >> it was probably about two year as well. >> seeing pattern here. >> what happened after that? >> after that, i was appointed
to rank of commander. >> and what does a commander do? >> commander now unlike the previous civil service positions, a commander now is appointed specifically by chief of police and it is a higher position and the commander is usually in charge of a division. andrg so at that time i was appointed to commander of the internal affairs division. >> so you're now back to internal affairs that more or less overseeing entire operation? >> that is correct. >> how long did you hold that position? >>nt about two years. > okay. and after that? >> then i was appointed as the first precinct inspector and so that was a position in charge of the downtown precinct or first precinct.
and that was a patrol function so that was mainly patrol related pudgeses functionings even though we do have a great civilian team bhos work on things such as crime prevention andiv others. but i was appointed to first precinct inspector. >> what did inspector do at that level? >> inspector at that level is really driving the work of the precinct monitoring, and working on trying to reduce crime in that precinct working with its stakeholders, neighborhood associations, its business community. making sure investigative patrol that they have resources thingings that they need interfacing with the city council members of that particular award so that is really a lot of the work that a precinct inspector does. >> does the precinct inspector
then supervise maybe not at the ground level but is responsible for the supervision of all of the dincht positions underneath inspector?r? >> that is correct. >> and how long were you in that position? >> about two years. >> and then after that. >> then i was appointed to the deputy chief chief of staff. >> and what is a deputy chief do? >> deputy chief at that time was a unique role in that -- i was really chief of staff for the chief of police a lot of, a lot of work helping to support our department initiatives, reaching out to elected officials, community stakeholders, boosting up programs, grants that the department had received. and really carrying out the mission of the chief of police.
... police. >> and from there? >> after about two years i was appointed to assistant chief of minneapolis police department. >> and by whom were you appointed? >> that it was former chief -- [inaudible] >> what did you do as the assistant chief? >> that was really overseeing the minneapolis police department also supporting the chief. >> for approximately how >> for approximately how long? >> that may been a little shorter, about a year or so i think. >> you have broken the pattern. >> yes. >> and now of course you are the chief of police. who selected you to be the chief of police? >> well, i served in an acting or interim capacity then under mayor betsy hodges, and then after that term ended, then
mayor fry ofhe the city of minneapolis appointed me as chief of police. >> you may take that exhibit down. so you had certainly it seems every rank available as an minneapolis police department in a variety of roles, is that right? >> that'ss correct. >> are you familiar generally with the day-to-day operations i guess from the patrol level all the way up to the level you are now? >> that is correct. >> what i would like you to do at this time d is provide us wih a little bit more information, sort of an overview of the minneapolis police department and how it serves the city of minneapolis, cmpd's jurisdiction is within the geographic limits of minneapolis, is that right? >> yes. >> what's the approximate geographic area that you have jurisdictionsd over? >> well, to the north we border brooklyn park, , brooklyn cente. to the south of richfield, to
east right up against the river st. paul, and to the west golden valley. and so it's a pretty large area. >> would you agree that is about 58 mi.2, give, give or take? >> yes. current population of minneapolis? >> roughly about 400, 20, 30,000. >> how many swat officers work for the minneapolis police department? >> currently around 700. >> and as the chief are you generally familiar with the officers who work for you? that's a lot of people. >> if a lot of people, and so it can be taxing to try to -- you know, we got a lot of people to work in different areas, but i have a pretty good understanding
where folks are throughout the organization come just. >> as we go on i'll be asking if you recognize some of the names at different people we have met to this point, but at this time up until may 26, 2020, an individual name derek chauvin was a minneapolis police department, is a right? >> that is correct. >> are you aware of who this person is? >> i am. >> did you recognize this person in the courtroom today? >> i do. >> would you please point to them and describe what he is wearing? >> yes. mr. chauvin's right there turkey appears to be wearing a navy blue suit with light blue tie and white shirt. >> thank you, your honor. may the record reflect the witnesses against five the defendant -- identified the defendant. i would like to describe for the jury out mpd is structured to deploy law-enforcement services
to about 420,000 people over 58 square mile area, 24 hours a day every day. administratively, how is the department organized? >> administratively, we are broken down in to bureaus, and so as may have been major jet the chief of police that really leads the organization in its mission and vision and goals and then we have an assistant chief overseas the daily operations. after that are three deputy chiefs and we have deputy chief of patrol, and a deputy chief of patrol is responsible for the five geographical precincts throughout the city of minneapolis. we also have deputy chief of professional standards, and that deputy chief overseas really two main functions, and that is our training for our entire department as well as the
internal affairs portion of our department. and then we have a deputy chief, third one, of investigations. so all of the employees who worked, , whether it's homicide unit, robbery, assault, that deputy chief overseas the investigations bureau. and we also have commanders who oversee these divisions. as i mentioned above the civil service rank. they are appointed and a servant different divisions. in the precincts as i mentioned there are five geographical areas. with five precinct inspectors and their like the chiefs of police for the precincts, yes. >> so by my count there were three bureaus, get investigations, actual and professional standards, right? >> correct. >> the investigations bureau has a number of individual units within the bureau, correct?
>> that is correct. >> for example, what type of units by within investigations? >> investigations bureau has homicide, assault, robbery, crimes against children. there are several different investigative units. >> so within the investigative bureau you mention homicide. that's where lieutenant zimmerman worked, is that right? >> that is right. >> and the patrol bureau, that provides services such as 911 response like you did when you are a patrol officer, is a right? >> that's correct. >> crime prevention, traffic control, emergency service all within the control bureau? >> yes. >> and individuals -- sorry. and within the patrol bureau, in order to provide those patrol services, over the geographic area we've heard about the
precinct, is at right? >> yes. >> if we could publish exhibit 269. exhibit 269, is this the geographic area of your jurisdiction? >> yes, it is. >> can you use to 69 to describe the precinct and what they are and what purpose they serve? >> yes. this exhibit outlines the five geographical precincts, and is also let's our community know which precinct based on where they happen to live, which precinct their residence or business is a part of. and so you're able to see from this map here sector one or precinct one kind of this in the center, covers downtown, cedars riverside area. number four at the top left-hand corner of would be our north
minneapolis precinct. and then the second precinct number to cover southeast, northeast minneapolis and in the fifth precinct covers southwest minneapolis and then the third precinct covers our southeast minneapolis area. >> and focusing specifically on the third precinct, i see it is divided further into these sectors, is that right? >> that is correct. >> and that is for the purposes of being able to deploy patrol services, correct? >> yes. >> within the figures precincts, this is primarily a tool for dispersing patrol officers, greg? >> yes. >> but there are also investigative functions within the precinct precincts? >> yes. >> that would be specifically assigned to the precinct? >> yes. >> but professional standards, that would cover all the precincts, is a right? >> yes. >> okay. if we could publish 268 i would
like to focus business ethically on the third precinct -- focus specifically. it's hard to see but you can see -- that's much better. you can see the different colors. it appears the sectors that we looked at in the previous exhibit are listed here. if you would take a look at sector one, that would be representative to three can come is a right? >> yes. >> we won't go through each of the sectors, but the purpose of these sectors again is to further distinguish different geographic areas within the third precinct or any precinct would be able to have, say, dispatchers to play law-enforcement resources a, is that right?
>> that is correct. >> dispatches like jena scurry for example, could send a card to a particular location based on the different sectors that are within the precinct map, is the right? >> that is right, yes. >> and professional standards bureau, you can take it down, please. the professional standards bureau, what does the professional standards bureau do? >> one of the functions is training. we have commander, , again thats one of the appointed ranks, who oversees the training division, and they are responsible for making sure that not only are our officers in compliance with our mandated posts board education requirements every year but also really looking to make sure that we continue to evolve and that we are staying on top of necessary training that's important for us that has a benefit to our communities that we serve. and so that's a core piece to
what our professional standards training division does. >> so within professional standards you have training services, and that his staff at i guess the commander level? >> that is correct. >> who is the current commander of the training division? >> the current commander for the minneapolis training division is commander darcy horne. >> last year who was your commander. >> last year she is now inspector katie black will but she was commander katie blackwell last year when she led our training. >> and she would have done the training commander on may 25, 2020 come is a a right? >> that is correct. >> okay. there's other divisions within professional standards. i think you mentioned internal affairs but there's also at administrative services division, is that right? >> yes. >> what does the administrative
services division do? >> they can do with everything from grants, different types of programs that the city of minneapolis is embarking upon. employee personnel matters as well. >> also business software and equipment? >> technology, business software, yes. >> by the, milestone cameras. >> yes. >> we met jeff lugo and that's where he works come is a right? >> yes, lieutenant rugel is part of that, yes. >> i would like to talk you a little bit about minneapolis police department reacting to calls for service. the role of the minneapolis police department is generally to serve the communities of law enforcement needs, is a right? >> that's great. >> most request for service comes in through the 911 system, is a right? >> yes. >> you respond or officers respond to the different calls
for service. could you please describe the types of calls for service? minneapolis police department, response to. >> calls for service can absolutely range from everything from a tenets trouble to a wild party dispute to domestic assault to shooting and to even homicide. it can really range from a a e variety of intense costs for people will call to report a crime and request assistance? >> right. >> people also called to report, just general emergencies? >> yes, they can. >> what type of emergencies? >> medical emergencies. they can request calls for service for that. oftentimes we have community who are calling because it maybe 3:00 in the morning and they don't know of any other servers or who will respond that they will call us of those types of situations as well. >> and the suppose what
constitutes an emergency is in the eye of the college somewhat? >> that is correct. >> but nonetheless mpd response? >> yes. >> do you know approximately how many calls for service the minneapolis police department receives annually? >> usually a couple hundred thousand and then we also have officers that we categorize as self-initiated activity. so that could mean an officer happens to be driving through a neighborhood and see something and reports on the radio that they're going to look into it. so it's a combination but it's a lot of calls. >> and generally people talk all the police department to say hey, everything is going great, just wanted you to know. they have something they want you to do. >> exactly, yes. >> it sounds than like it's fair to say there's more to policing than just going out and arresting people.
you provide a broad spectrum of policing services to the community. >> yeah, i would actually say the actual law enforcement part is probably 30 small compared to most of the types of calls at our offices are being called to address and deal with, yeah. >> so we attached on police training, her own personal police training and how police training is dispensed i guess to the professional standards bureau. i would like to describe that a little bit further. are you generally familiar with the types of training at the minneapolis police department provides its officers? >> yet sydenham. >> where does this training take place? >> we have a large facility located in north minneapolis which we call our special operations center. and that is where the vast majority of our required training takes place. >> is a special operations unit
a dedicated building only for training purposes? >> it's primarily dedicated for training purposes, yes. >> and i think you testified it is supervised by commander. i would like you to tell the jury a little bit about when now currently training begins for minneapolis police officers who is hired on to the department. >> for a new officer who is hired on to the department that first initial orientation towards training begins at the academy. and that again is overseen by the commander of the training unit, and we actually have a class currently in place now at the academy at the shop and so that first initial indoctrination to academy occurs during the first part of the training at the academy. >> fair to say that the training is provided to minneapolis
police officers can be generally divided into two categories, preservice training and post service training, is a right? >> yes. >> the preservice training would include the academy that you just talked about, is that right? >> that is correct. >> postal service training is the continuing education that you testified about previously, is that right? >> yes. >> so let's again focus on the academy training. how many cadets do you generally have at a given time? >> well, usually a mixture of recruit classes and a cadet class. i would say that we average in terms of recruit class, numbers around 30. 30. cadets might be 20-25. >> so now i'm going to ask you to just define some terms a little and explain to the jury the difference between a recruit and a cadet. >> recruits are typically
individuals who already have in focus, laser focused on career being minneapolis police office what i want to do. it typically already. they had their two year criminal justice of law enforcement degree. most have completed the required skills training. cadet was, was really created to capture diversity of candidates. and so the cadet might have individuals who may have had a psychology degree but it's really streamlining thing in, it's a little lengthier process but it's really getting them on board so that they meet the state requirements, the post requirements to be hired. so the cadet program is a wonderful way for us to capture diversity within our police department itself, but they both, once their programs are
finished, both classes whether your recruit or a cadet you are ready to successfully become a minneapolis police officer. >> do you also take lateral candidate? >> yes, lateral candidates can we have had in the years pass korea. >> do those individuals also go through a similar training as the recruit? >> yes. the laterals can't get it is usually much smaller in length of time just because laterals are individuals of always served as police officers, perhaps in another jurisdiction or another part of the state or another state. >> we would get a more detailed description from another witness that is at a high level. could you describe what the trainees do at the academy during this preservice training? >> trainees at the academy at the preservice, really their first indoctrination into this world of being a a police offr so they're being taught about cities and statutory laws. they are being trained on procedural justice and criminal
thinking, defensive tactics. they are having commuting members come in and speak to about different aspects whether it relates to things in our cultures come within our city, technology is a huge piece of that. learning how to write reports on our computers. so they're there reallyt basic indoctrination into the minneapolis police department. >> as far as the methodology, is it typically classroom delivery? do you also have practical application? how does that work? >> yeah, it's a layered approach. it's both the practical academic studying, examinations that occur but it is also scenario-based. and so their scenarios that they will go through and whether that crisis intervention training or other aspect. so it is a a layered approacho the training. >> and in the preservice
training that once the officer or candidates complete the preservice training, what's the next phase before coming a fully functioning police officer? >> once they complete that training, they are making sure obviously that met the requirement for the licensure, for the minnesota post board, then ultimately they are going to get sworn in and hired on as minneapolis police officers. >> are usually with a program called the field training program or fpo? >> yes, i am. >> is that part of the preservice training? >> definitely yes. >> can you give us a general description of what the fdl or fuel training program is? >> the field training officer program is really, once the recruit has gone through that series of preservice training, it's now teaming them up with a mentor basically.
and they are being engaged and judged on certain performance measures, and it takes course over. so much, usually about five months, and there given instruction. they are saying how well they are able to handle certain types of situations, calls, and they are also having feedback, not only from the fto but also having conversations with the supervisors and the training bureau and seeing how they are doing. they are assessing their progression in the event i candidate is not progressing, they are making sure there are support mechanisms, where they need extra help. and yes, at times we have candidates that the successfully complete it. but that's really getting them to the point where they can ultimately be really on their own to be able to function on their own as this one minneapolis police officer.
>> so once this complete the field training program, and i think per your testimony thus far, the training doesn't stop there. you have post requirements you have to fulfill every year in your post service training, it's up right? >> that is correct. >> is that delivered through a series of in-service trainings that occur at the same training facility you mentioned? >> yes. >> is that training optional? can officer go some rebels to get their post-credits and skip the in-service, or is that training required? >> that training is required annually. >> you have to take a? >> yes, i do. >> what type of training is provided in the postal service training? >> some of the training that is provided in the annual training can be cit training. >> crisis intervention writing? >> crisis intervention training, thank you. crisis intervention training,
defensive tactics, basic cpr. those are some of the types of training that is required annually. >> even though they are already been trained on all these things before, you're still doing the same training annually? >> that is correct. >> why is that? >> a lot of that is just to reemphasize the importance of the training itself, muscle memory. because all of our department members are being taught the same thing. we may have officers that are working in patrol capacity when you're at the next year and may be in investigations. but they may be called to assist upon so it's making sure all of us have a basic, necessary core fundamental training. to better help help serve e is. >> if you could give the jury an idea about that time that he spent training your officers.
>> its, it's a lot. we put a lot of time, energy and resources into our training. last year the minneapolis police department, in terms of a mandatory in-service training and leadership training, we probably spent about $8.5 million in our preservice and in-service training, probably about $4.5 million. the training is absolutely vitally essential to us as a department. >> and offices are paid while they're being trained, zachary? >> yes, they are. >> -- is that correct? >> part of >> would it be fair to say part of the objective of training is to impart minneapolis police department policies on to the officers, that they know what those policies are and are able to apply them? >> yes.
it's important through training went reemphasizing not only our policy really our values as a police department and what opportunity expect of us. it's to help our offices and also to our communities at the same time. >> as a former patrol officer who has use force, put handcuffs on people, you understand the reality of what policing is like when you're actually on duty, is that right? >> that's correct. >> you testified you participated and continue to participate in the training that's been provided by mpd that continues to be provided? >> that is correct. >> is this training practical and useful? >> yes, it is. >> why do you say that? >> our officers are being -- particularly patrol officers are being called again to respond in a way to our community needs them and its hundreds of thousands of calls that they respond to. and we are a very interesting
profession, that some professions your body work matters. to an within the minneapolis police department our body of work matters but it's more internally. but to our communities for thepr most part your body of work doesn't know as much value. we don't have the luxury of being able to go up to a community member for the first time and say, you know, those 99 calls i was on before went really well, just be on this one. we don't have the luxury of doing that. our communities are going, no, what have youit done for me lately? i'm going to grade you on how youu treat me during this call, drink this interaction. so we have to make each engagement with our community count. and so the training is very importantra because for many and our communities the first time that they encounter i minneapolis please officer may be the only time in the life
they do, so that singular incident matters. . >> aside from the usefulness to the communitywhat about the usefulness of it from a practical standpoint to the patrol officer out on the street ? is this training practical or is it more aspirational ? >> know, it's very practical and has i mentioned earlier it's so important we evolved as a police department and meet our communities where they are and i'll givea couple of examples if you don't mind . we've talked a lot about within the department that we know our communities suffer and can go through trauma so it's important for men and women to have training as it relates to how we respond in those moments. what resources can we provide for our community? but one of the things we've
not acted up in this profession and sadly is the impact of trauma on our own officers. so wellness, we do a great deal of training and work on officer wellness because we need to make sure our officers are well and they're interacting with our communities in that regard. i'll also tell you a few years ago, we were hearing from members of our transgender community and how they have felt police have played a role in their lives. not always good quite frankly. so we were able to through conversation, through discussions, through meetings we were able to stick sit and craft a policy based upon members of our transgender conforming community guiding that. we had the first policy ever and that so again, so important that we as a police
agency continue to evolve and placevalue on all of our communitymembers . that's very important . >> speaking of the minneapolis police policies, you're aware the police department has a fairly extensive policy and procedure. >> yes. >> is it important then for policies and procedures to be in a written form so officers can understand what the expectations are. and those are public documents to the public, they're ultimately able to see what the expectations of the police officers are . >> that is correct. >> the chief of police and being employed by mpd is one. i think you're familiar with the minneapolis police department policy and procedure manual at all that's contained inside. >> yes. >> you in fact created some of these policies. >> yes. >> and are minneapolis police
officers required to be familiar with various written policies? >> yes we are. >> there's a policy requiring them to befamiliar with those policies . >> if you would publish exhibit 207. >> if you would highlight session 1 ã103. >> this is a policy, it expels a policy and it requires the mpd employees will be provided instructions on how to access a policy and procedure manual . >> that is correct. >> they are accountable for knowing how to, how and where to access knowing the contents of the manual, is that right mark. >> that is correct. >> they're required to sign a receipt acknowledging their receipt knowing the contents of the manual. >> correct.
>> the first policy manual that you would receive as a patrol officer might not be 30 years later, what you're going to be looking at, correct? the policies are changing but they're published, their public and officers are required to know what they are and find something saying they will continue to review them, is that right ? >> yes. >> it's preliminary, overruled. >> all right. well, at this time, i ask you just to display to the witness exhibit 274 for identification . >> sir, do you recognize the essential form here of being an electronic version of the mpd policy and procedure manual adjustments . >> yesi do . >> this is an example of an embellishment for the
chauvin. sorry, derek chauvin, badge 1087 december 28, 2001, is that correct? >> yes. >> minneapolis the police department has a code of ethics, is that right ? and the code of ethics is getting policy manual. forgive me, we're going to be a result the next time you display 215. page 2. and if you could highlight five ã10201.
and the code of ethics provides a policy manual, law enforcement officers fundamental duty to serve mankind and safeguard lives and property and protect the innocent deception the week againstoppression nation, ? >>. >> if you could take that down, minneapolis police department also has a professional policing policy is ? high-level can you design what professional policing means in this context. >> are minneapolis police professional policing, it's really about treating people with dignity and respect. all else, high-level. it, we value one another and it's really treating people with the dignity and respect they deserve.
>> we can display exhibit215 . . drawing your attention to page four. section five ã104.01. >> is this a professional policing policy? >> yes it is. >> reversible. >> the first bullet is the courteous, professional and professional. >> if you read the bible class ensure that the length of any detention is no longer necessary to take appropriate action for the known or suspected. >> you can take that down. sir, it's fair to say law
enforcement generally has changed a lot since you started back in 89, ? >> that's correct. >> 19 you didn't havemoney warmed . you sort of the ability for civilians, bystanders do video or record, police officers, >> we do not. >> because we didn't have smartphones. >>. >> and now you. >> is correct. >> the policy change withthe times ? >> yes. >> in jerusalem saying that sometimes sanders you use your smartphone video images of police officers, have you or have the minneapolis police department in any trading or a policy there officers were people reporting? >> yes we have. we parted policy. it really is informing
officers that individual under their first amendment rights, they have the absolute first amendment right to court through cell phone video or other types of video. officers interacting or engaging with a community member. with the exception the activity of the officers they absolutely correct, boring performing our duties. >> what does instruct me? >> .,something where you are physically losing yourself in position where no longer or are prohibiting carrying a fullduty are in , individuals have the right to record our engagement with our community . >> chief, you have to acknowledge that a patrol officer may find it irritating to have a civilian
affording their activities . >> very true. >> is that obstruction? >> it is not. >> at this time i'd like you display to the witness only exhibit 273 is away for a moment. at this time i will offer exhibit 273. >> any objection. >> noobjection . >> you had published 273 and i'd like to draw your attention to section nine ã 202. and, this is the public recording of police
activities. providing employees guidance dealing with members of the public. >> yes it is. >> and generally this informs officers that unless you're beingobstructed, people get to record you . >> yes. >> even if you don't like it. >> yes. >> how long has this been the policy of mpd. >> since may 2016. >> thank you. >> sir, are you familiar with the concept of de-escalation? >> yes. >> what is de-escalation? >> de-escalation is providing a knowledge base for skills, in this case for officers to focus on time options and resources. really primarily trying to
provide an opportunity to stabilize the situation to de-escalate it and with the goal of having a safe and peaceful outcome. and so there's tools associated with that but that's really the goal is de-escalation. tying options and resources so you can destabilize a position safely. >> you think of de-escalation, are you thinking of it as the opposite of using force or is it a part of force? >> we teach it as both. >> and when you started with an apartment back in 1989 was there an emphasis on de-escalation ? >> it was not mentioned. >> when did de-escalation start becoming more a topic of conversation inthe law enforcement community . >> i think that right around late 90s, 2000 i think that when we were, when there was
attention not only in minneapolis but the departments across the country and incidents particularly involving police encounters with those suffering from mental illness, we started to see a lot of work on that. here locally, the barber schneider foundation many years ago involved the death of a community member but when we started, that was really what culminated for our department de-escalation and even when you heard departments starting to talk about other tools like tasers, all of these types of things, it was around that time frame that i think our department released, or started giving more education awareness as it relates to de-escalation.
>> what about even if you worked on de-escalation formally when you started back in 1989, as a practical matter in practice , is that something that's been employed by experienced police officers for a long time now denmark. >> what about in your own experience when youwere on patrol ? is the escalation techniques? >> yes. >> did you find them to be effective, a way to talk somebody down from a tuition rather than needing to use force? >> yes and the primary goal is you want to keep yourself in an officer and you want to keep your community safe so a lot of it hinged on communication and listening and verbal skills. so if you could talk your way out of the situation to de-escalate where it didn't have to result in physical force those were things you certainly utilize and you're always in that position to look upon someone you worked with who had that skill set
to do that. >> but if you can talk somebody out of the situation, if you can escalate you can and then you have to use a different method. >> that is true. >> so it comes to what's reasonable at the time, is that right west and mark. >> yes. >> it does the minneapolis to police department currently have a de-escalation of a c? >> we do. >> if i can display exhibit 219. >> i think it is, i want to make sure. if we can publish exhibit 219 . and then catalyst police department policy five ã304, threatening the use of force and de-escalation. this is the policy and it's
the policy as it existed. on may 25 2020, is that right west and mark. >> that's correct. >> if we could highlight paragraph eight, threatening the use of force . and i'd like you sir to please just read the record the paragraph that you see here . all the way up until i guess the first sentence. i won't make you read the whole thing. >> as an alternative and/or the precursor to the actual use of force, mpd officers now consider verbally announcing their intent to use force including displaying an authorized weapon as a threat of force when reasonable under the circumstances. >> and i guess is it an either or alternative, is it you either de-escalate or use force and once you start using forceyou give up on
de-escalation ? >> the goal is to resolve the situation as safely as possible so you want to always have escalation layered into those actions of use of force. >> and if you could take that down and highlight paragraph b, de-escalation. in accordance with the policy , the language here is mandatory when reasonable, whatever reasonable. shall de-escalation tactics be in the voluntary compliance, is that right west and mark. >> yes. >> and to seek to avoid the use of physical force,correct
. >> yes. >> seeking to minimize physical force, that can be happening while physical forces being employed . >>yes . >> an officer can be using physical force and still maintain a chance to de-escalate and defuse the situation. >> yes. >> if you could clear that please. >> as part of the de-escalation, the policy indicates the officers are supposed to do what? >> attempt to slow down or stabilize a situation. give it more time and options and resources are available. >> when you talk about more time, options and resources, good options and resources include for example using other officers at the scene. >> yes. >> calling for backup. >> yes. >> it can also include
seeking community help in the situation as well . >> in employing the escalation techniques, in accordance with the policy, the officers are required to consider a number of factors regarding thesubject, is that right west and mark . >> yes. >> we're assuming you'rethe subject is noncompliant . the people who maybe don't want to comply with police officers. but you can also run into people who just for some reason are unable to do so at thatmoment . >> yes. >> and officers are required to consider and if you could highlight thebullets that come underneath . >> officers under the minneapolis de-escalation policy are required to consider whether the subject's lack of compliance is a deliberate attempt to resist or an inability, is that right?
>> yes. >> if you could read the first bulletins, medical conditions, correct. >> yes. >> we have mentalimpairments, development of disability . physical limitations. some one may be physically unable to comply. language barrier, the city of minneapolis has a variety of people we speak a variety of different languages. someone may just not understand you and if you're not considering that, perhaps the situation could escalate into something later than it would need to be. >> yes. >> the last two bullets first, could you read the second to the last bullet? >> yes, one of the other considerations officers should take into account is the influence of drugs or alcohol use . >> how so? >> the research says that
people can react differently whenthey are under the use of alcohol or drugs . so you trying to get verbal commands, if someone's under the use of alcohol or drugs, it may have a different reaction so that should be something that you should be considering. >>. >> drug or alcohol use, in this context is being required that the officer considered to determine if the escalation is appropriate . it can be true that people who are under the influence of drugs or alcohol can become dangerous. >> that is correct. >> isn't it also true for some people react completely different and they are not necessarily dangerous if they're under the influenceof alcohol or drugs . >> that is correct. >> a may not be more dangerous, they may be more vulnerable . >> true.
>> it's important that the officer considers that when determining whether to go the route of force or continued force or de-escalation. >> yes. >> behavioral crisis is the last bullet i'd like you to discuss. what you mean bybehavioral crisis . >> behavioral crisis, of all the bullets sometimes that is probably the one that our men and women experience in our communities most. if someone loses a job, that can trigger a behavioral crisis. if someone loses a loved one, that can trigger a behavioral crisis. if someone has themselves gotten the worst diagnosis from their doctor that day, that can trigger behavioral psychosis so we want our
folks to take all of that into consideration when i talk about meeting our community where they are that's the one we need to focus on . >> you testified earlier the police just don't get to meet people on their best day, do they ? >> know they don't. >> behavioral crisis of the kind you desire described and in fact it can be a barrier to compliance. and it would cause an inability to comply even if not an intentional inability to comply. >> that's fair. >> so the purpose of the i'm sorry, of the listing of behavioral crisis is a point of consideration for law enforcement officers as well. >> again, it's recognizing that when we get the call from our communities, it may
not often be there best day. they may beexperiencing something very traumatic . but we're going to respond and we have to take that into consideration. because i as i mentioned again, we make that may be the first and last time a half interaction with the minneapolis police to department so we have tomake sure it matters . >> would this be a good time to stop before i go into the ? sorry, i was trying to push it to the time limit. >> let's come back at 1:30. >> coming up live today, the bipartisan policy center on effective ways to build confidence in the covid-19 vaccine. that's live at 10:30 a.m. on c-span. at one p.m. an event on countering domestic extremism in the u.s. military and law enforcement.
on c-span2 at 10 a.m. the trial of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin and the death of george floyd continues. >> the afternoon part of the trial picks up after the lunch break with the minneapolis police chief returning to the witness stand telling the court that derek chauvin violated the department's policy on use of force to restrain george floyd. >> you are still under oath. if you could please display published exhibit 219.