tv Day 6 of Trial for Derek Chauvin Accused in Death of George Floyd Part 3 CSPAN April 6, 2021 8:56am-9:35am EDT
of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin and the death of george floyd continues. >> the afternoon part of the trial picks up after the lunch break with the minneapolis police chief returning to the witness stand telling the court that derek chauvin violated the department's policy on use of force to restrain george floyd. >> you are still under oath. if you could please display published exhibit 219.
before the break we were discussing that de-escalation policy. i would like to ask whether the actual de-escalation techniques are embedded within the policy itself. so i'm drawing your attention to again exhibit 219, which is mpd policy five dash 304 and if you take a look at that section that is been a large, de-escalation including but not limited to come if you would please summarize for the jury the different bullets that you see here. >> yes. some of the bullets here for de-escalation tactics -- >> one moment. oh, all right. thank you. all right. please a resume. >> yes.
some of the de-escalation tactics that are noted here include they are not limited to placing barriers between an uncooperative subject and an officer, communication from a safe position to gain subjects complaint using verbal persuasion, advisement or warnings, using verbal techniques to calm an agitated subject and promote rational decision-making. calling for additional resources to assist including more officers, cid officers and officers equipped with less lethal tools. >> cid officersls are those who had been through the crisis intervention training course, correct? >> that isha correct. >> and our minneapolis police officers then at the.s training center taught different techniques on how to implement this policy? >> that is correct. >> did you personally attend the trend? >> yes, i have. >> did you find it useful? >> i have.
>> and you can remove that. we talked a little bit then about behavioral crises and identifying behavioral crises. how does a minneapolis police department respond to persons in behavioral crisis? >> one of the first important things obviously is trying to get ass much information prior o the call as possible. but as soon as officers at least have knowledge that this could be a potential situation with that color, this de-escalation peace should kick in and while they may not know exactly what they're going to encounter when they arrive on the scene, this body of knowledge that the been taught should at least be kind of forefront in terms of the different tools that they will be using possibly to help de-escalate the situation. >> what is in edp? >> the acronym edp is labeled to
our minneapolis emergency communication center as an emotional, emotionally disturbed person, and so when are minneapolis police officers receive an edp call, that is prompting them that there's a least initial information that they are going going to bo someone who may be in crisis. .. dispatcher prior to going to the scene? >> that is correct. >> if that information is not imparted on them, they make their own assessment as to whether the person could potentially be edp? >> correct. >> you indicated neapolis police department receives over 100,000 calls a year. >> yes. >> do you have any idea how many calls involve people in crisis? >> >> i believe in 2019,
minneapolis police officers responded to about 4500 of those signified as edc calls? >> yes. >> now in terms of teaching officers how to recognize a person who may potentially be in crisis and therefore unable to comply with commands, you placed these different signs into mpd policy. >> yes. >> i'd like to direct your attention now to exhibit 231 and ask that it be published and that this sub-809, the crisis intervention policy, it begins here. i'm sorry, but we'll go ahead and -- over to page two. and i'd like to highlight, please, for the jury the definition of a crisis. and again, in the definition of
a crisis under the mpd policy, generally speaking, we're talking about some of the same things that we saw before in the deescalation policy, is that right? >> that is correct. >> there can be mental illness, is that right? >> yes. >> substance abuse can be a crisis or a barrier to communication, correct? >> yes. >> and same with various stressors, is that right? >> yes. >> and then further, if you can emphasize the crisis intervention definition. and officers, when they either respond to an edp call or are aware that the person may be in crisis and attempt a crisis intervention, is that correct? >> yes. >> and generally speaking, what is the officer supposed to do
to a person in crisis? >> to attempt to deescalate that situation. >> and the policy then of the minneapolis police department in handling persons in crisis, if we could look at section three of the policy, it would be the next page, highlight roman iii. ak, okay in an i-- accordance with the policy, how they they supposed to handle individuals in cries srments we want to bring people our values, our principles to those situations. we recognize that oftentimes people experiencing crisis, it's not something that they brought on themselves, what they're dealing with, and so
there's a sense of dignity and respect that we should be honoring when we come to those calls. and so, as it's mentioned here, the protection and safety and sanctity of life. oftentimes we're the first face of government that they're going to see. that may be 3:00 in the morning so we have to wear many hats, but we want to be respectful in that care that we're trying to provide for that individual. >> and sometimes persons might be experiencing some sort of a breakdown that, you know, maybe they did partially bring upon themselves, is that right? >> that's correct. >> are those people still to be treated in accordance with mpd policy? >> yes, they are. >> and this policy, again, is imparted in training at the training center by that group, is that right? >> that is correct. >> now, i'd like to -- if you
could take that down, please. talk to you a little bit about officers role as first responders in terms of providing basic medical care, all right? and so with that, can you tell the jury, are minneapolis police officers trained to provide basic medical care? >> yes, we are. >> and can you please describe what level of aware? there are various different levels of medical care that someone could be trained in. >> so most of the department members will have at least basic training in terms of first responder, the abc's, airway, breathing, circulation. pressure on wounds to stop bleeding. many things we'll respond to
perhaps because we're closer to a call than perhaps are e.m.s. or fire before they get there and they obviously have a higher degree, level of training, but the training that we have and that we receive is very vital because those seconds are vital. our officers carry tourniquets. we respond to situations where members in our community will have gunshot wounds and matter of fact, our officers saved a young man who was shot in the femur, and those, and baby not breathing calls. our officers have saved the lives of children who have choked or what have you because they've applied, or helped start emergency breathing for themselves. those are some of the basic types of first aid, chest compressions, those types of basic first aid. >> and are officers then, you know, especially trained at the training center to provide the
basic sort of first aid? >> that's correct. >> and does minneapolis police department have a policy regarding any duty that an officer would have to apply that training to a real life situation? >> yes. we recognize often times we're the first one to respond to someone who needs medical attention so we absolutely have a duty to render that aid. >> and that of course is in the policy and procedure manual, right? ments yes. >> if i can look at exhibit policy 7-350 emergency medical response. and under roman 1, you see the purpose of the policy is to layout in writing the roles and responsibilities of minneapolis police department employees in
incidents involving medical emergency, is that right? >> yes. >> if we could take a look at the policy itself under roman ii, does that explain what a minneapolis police officer is supposed to do when they come upon a medical emergency or a medical emergency develops on a call? >> yes. >> what are they supposed to do? >> while awaiting e.m.s., assisting an individual having an acute medical crisis shall provide any necessary first aid consistent with our mpd training as soon as practical. >> so that presumes, of course, they're waiting for e.m.s. or waiting for some kind of emergency services, is that right? >> correct. >> would it be fair to say that the policy is in two parts. the officer has to request e.m.s. or an ambulance, correct? >> yes. >> and while waiting for the ambulance they have to provide -- they're required to provide what medical training and skills they have to attempt to
save the person? >> that is correct. >> are minneapolis police officers provided naloxone or narcan kits? >> yes, we are. >> what are those? >> it is -- it is basically an inhaler for community members who we may respond to have overdosed. it is to-- if they've overdosed and are out, it is to give them that inhaler injection so that they can hopefully come to and so, we -- a few years ago where for the most part minneapolis fire department were the ones that responded to overdose and carried the narcan. unfortunately, our city and cities across the country saw an uptick in heroin and opioid
overdoses and we wanted to save lives and equipping with narcan. >> and the policy development. and so you exhibit 229, narcan policy, 7-348. >> yes. >> are officers provided training in the administration of narcan. >> yes. >> under appropriate circumstances? >> yes. >> and now i'd like to talk to you a little bit about the use of force. does minneapolis have a written policy governing proper and authorized use of force? >> yes, we do. >> and is this generally covered in the 5-300 series of the policy ap procedure manual? >> yes, it is. >> i'd like to discuss some of
that manual with you and the policy with you at this time, if we could pull and display exhibit 216. under the purpose of the policy, which is 5-301, can you please read the first sentence under subparagraph a. >> yes, sanctity of life and the protection. public shall be the cornerstones of the mpd's use of force policy. >> what does that mean? >> of all the things that we do as peace officers for the minneapolis police department, i mentioned thousands of calls that our men and women respond to. it's my firm belief that the one singular incident we will be judged forever on will be our use of force, while it's absolutely imperative the officers go home at the end of their shift we want to ensure that our community members go
home, too. so sanctity of life is vital, that that is the pillar for our use of force. >> has this generally always been the case with minneapolis use of force policy? >> it is not. >> when did that change? >> we implemented this particular in 2016. >> is the training and use of force and application of use of force policy been imparted, including this philosophy, onto police officers in training, at the training center? >> it certainly has, yes. >> does the policy itself define force? what is force? >> yes, it does. >> if we can take a look at exhibit 217, publish that. you highlight use of force.
generally speaking what is force? >> any physical contact. it can be a with weapon, it can be with a vehicle, but it's any kind of physical contact to render harm or injury to anyone. >> is restraint, the use of restraint considered force. >> that would be considered force. >> and what type of force is authorized under developmental policy? >> under 609 we operate under use of force graham v connor. >> if i could explain 217. >> let's see. first go back to 5-303.
5-303 authorizes force, is that right? and you mentioned 609.06 statute authorizing force under certain circumstances? >> yes. >> and the phrase used for the authorization of force is what type of force? >> reasonable. >> and that force can be authorized under certain circumstances, is that right? >> yes. >> all right. so now if you would go to the next page, talks about the circumstances under which a police officer is authorized properly to use force. highlight that. what are the circumstances under which an officer is authorized to use force? >> an officer is authorized to use force affecting lawful arrest, executing a legal process, enforcing an order of
the court, and any other duties imposed upon that officer. >> and that term reasonable force is further dylan rate -- delineated in the policy. >> yes. >> and look at under objection reasonable forges, could you please read that definition? >> yes, the amount and type of force that would be considered rational and logical to an objective officer on the scene, supported by facts and circumstances known to an officer at the time the force is used. >> now, you discussed that case, the connor, right, the connor factors and i'd like you to-- well, first of all, the policy reference, the connor factors that you just mentioned. >> yes. if you could display 217 page two. and we have three bullet points here under the connor factors.
and that is the officers supposed to look at the totality of the circumstances, right? >> yes. >> and the three bullets here that the officer is supposed to consider are what? >> the officer should consider the severity of the crime at issue, whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others. and whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight. >> and fair to say these three different considerations are things that you can attribute to the subject, correct? >> yes. >> that's not subject's conduct, not someone else's? >> yes. >> and of course, it has to be judged by a reasonable police officer on the scene at the time, correct? >> yes. >> now, do you recall, and obviously, you're here talking about what happened on may 25,
2020 involving george floyd. do you recall why the officers were responding to cup foods on that date, the original reason for the call? >> the original reason for the call was a response regarding a counterfeit situation at the store, at the intersection of 38th and chicago. >> and in terms of, you know, the deployment of your resources at the minneapolis police department and as chief, how do you rate, i guess, the severity of that offense, the seriousness of that offense? >> it would probably not rise to the level of -- and particularly in light of obscurity, the amount of violent crime we see in the city. we would certainly respond to it, but it would not rise to the level of the severity of the crime here.
>> in looking at that type of crime, is that one an individual is typically taken into custodial arrest? >> typically not. >> why is that? >> if it's not a violent felon, felony, we also in coordination with our jail system and our courts, there's been a shift over the years, that the individuals going to jail are those who from a public safety standpoint need to be at least in that facility, in the county jail and if we can identify the situation, you know, we can always charge and other things and so that's one of the reasons why. >> you used the phrase against violent felony. what's the most important, whether it's violent or a
felony, why is that? >> well, it can endanger not only the officers, but the community. >> where something labeled merely a felony may or may not require a full custodial arrest. >> that's correct. >> are minneapolis police officers trained in the use of force? >> yes. >> in the academy and also in post-service, and service training. >> yes. >> and are officers taught the standard that force must be reasonable at the time it is applied? >> yes. >> the entire time it's applied? >> yes. >> are officers taught the need to assess and reassess and reevaluate situations in the field? >> yes, we are. >> are you familiar with minneapolis police department's critical thinking model? >> yes. >> how are you familiar with
that? >> it was something that i wanted to embark and make sure that it was part of our training curriculum that also includes the aspects of procedural justice and procedural justice is really, it's actually research and evidence-based learning that has shown that if police departments treat people with respect, give them voice, establish neutral engagements and build areas of trust, our communities are more likely to cooperate with us. we're likely to be seen as more legitimate. it's actually shown that our employees come to work, their wellness is better and so, so this is very important work and so, it's part of that procedural justice, i just mentioned, is part of that critical thinking or training. at this time i'd ask to display only to the witness exhibit for
identification, 276. sir, do you recognize exhibit 276 as being mpd's critical decision making model? >> yes. >> offer exhibit 276. >> no objection. >> 276 is received. >> permission to publish. we heard about the model now we can actually see it. if you can enlarge the graphic, please. all right, so this is what the model looks like. it's sort of a wheel, is that right? >> yes. >> and the first stage of the critical thinking model, decision making model is information gathering? >> yes. >> explain that please. >> it's very vital. we rely upon trying to gather as much information as possible so that we can try our best to effectively go in and respond and manage that situation.
trying to gather as much information at the onset is very important, but we also need to make sure that we're continuing to try to gather as much information as we're dealing with the scene or the call. >> i see the arrow points in two directions and one it points to the middle of the circle and employs-- and trust and the other to risk assessment. let's talk about the middle of the circle first. what is that middle circle supposed to be representing? >> that's the principles really of what continues to guide us. so, for example, information gathering, while we may associate it specifically with receiving a 911 call and the dispatcher giving us information, but information gathering could be that officers come across a call that they weren't dispatched to and they need to talk to a
community member. if they don't treat that community member with respect or give them voice, it's likely that they will receive less information that will be less helpful in them resolving that call. so, that voice neutrality, respect and trust, that has to guide and be a part of all of that critical decision making model. >> let's go to the next, and officers gathered initial information and officers in need to think about it or assess it, right? >> yes. >> so the next step is a threat or a risk assessment. is there a difference between a threat and a risk? >> there can be. in terms of-- in terms of what is being played out at the time. and you're constantly evaluating that and of course, the information that you're receiving, which may be fluid, is going to dictate that threat or risk, yes.
>> so once the officer has made assessment of a threat or a risk, the next step, the authority to act. what does that mean? >> that may mean the officer now based upon that information, the information that they received, evaluating that threat or risk, am i going to act. is this going to be a physical arrest? am i going to separate parties? am i going to -- does it require this report? all of these things, but it's getting more information for the officer to guide he or she in terms of what is the next appropriate step. they need to act and take. >> and so, if we're to-- at least to this point in the model, put a scenario into action, and information gathering and the officer perceives that someone is approaching them what a weapon, like a bat, right? and so then they would reflect on that and determine whether or not this is a risk. it's a bat, maybe the person is
in a baseball game or a threat. the bat is being brandished, correct? >> yes. under authority to act, determine that this is in fact a risk and they're threatened, they would look at the authority back to the policy and procedural manual. >> yes. >> under what is the use of force policy, what tools are available to me to respond here? >> yes. >> all right. the next step then after considering the authority to act, the golden what is that? >> the goal, the officer is making assessment, what the authority act, will an arrest resolve the situation? will separating two parties be enough? is taking a report, will that be enough of a goal or an action? it may mean a combination of things. it may mean that i'm going to have to-- or the officers may make an
arrest, but we may need additional resources because the situation could still have the potential to not be stabilized so all of that is part of the goal and action. >> and this is exactly what-- >> information going to flow, the dynamics can change so it can be a constant revie and reassess the situation to make sure that we're trying to get to the best possible outcome in this peacefully and-- >> because circumstances can change, the situation can change, correct? >> yes. >> and force that might be appropriate at one moment might not be appropriate at a different moment or force may be needed at yet another point, is that right? >> yes. >> this particular critical thinking model exhibit 276, we see examples of this throughout training materials that are provided by the trainers at the
facility, is that right? >> yes. >> and why is that? >> it's to really embed that knowledge that we don't want to fall susceptible to the check the box training. this training is important for all of our officers to have a knowledge and understanding of and that our community members can expect this to be consistent as they have encountered or engagements with our officers. >> all right, if we could take that down, please. and i want to shift a little bit, talk about-- we've talked about use of force in the policy. does minneapolis police department train its officers in specific defensive tactics? >> yes. >> and where does that training occur? >> that training occurs at our special operations center. >> and does the department provide training for officers and handling uncooperative
individuals? >> yes. >> and does department provide training for hand cuffing reluctant suspects? >> yes. >> and when you provide the training, you're assuming you're taking someone into custody and do you also teach officers their responsibilities, their personal responsibilities with respect to the person they have just taken into custody? >> yes, we do. >> what responsibility does an officer have to a person they've taken into custody or restraint? >> so, the american policing profession, which i believe is the best in the world and i will tell you why and it's really two reasons-- >> rephrase your question. >> yes, your honor. sir, you have a responsibility, i guess, in that imparted throughout officers in various forms of training as to what--
once someone is in their custody. >> oh, yes. we have a duty of care and so when someone is in our custody, regardless if they're a suspect, we have an obligation to make sure that we provide for their care. >> does that include people to whom defensive tactics are being applied? >> yes. >> why is that? >> they're still in our custody and they have rights and the humanity of this profession we need to make sure that we're taking care of them. >> so, how often are officers required to participate in defensive tactics training? >> it's usually yearly, annual training. >> and do you know that the, you know, when we're talking about the training and policies in effect on may 25, 2020, were
neck restraints and choke holds taught and authorized by mpd policy at the time? >> at that time, yes. >> and they were taught pursuant to the defensive tactics training as well? >> yes. >> at this time, i'd like to publish exhibit 224. exhibit 224 showing mpd policy 5-311 use of restraints, neck restraints and choke holds. do you see a choke hold considered a deadly force option, is that right? >> yes. >> if you could go to the next page, please? >> next restraints, if you can highlight that portion from that down to unconscious neck restraints. there are various types of neck
restraints that were authorized at the time, is that right? >> yes. >> and neck restraint was defined as compressing one or both sides of the neck, the person's neck with an arm or a leg, is that right? >> yes. >> and without applying direct pressure to the trachea or the airway, that needs to be protected? >> yes. >> and there were two authorized conscious neck restraint and unconscious next restraint. >> yes. >> the objective of the unconscious neck restraint, the second one would be the person would pass out under certain circumstances in which the officer was in fear of grave bodily harm or death that would be authorized. >> yes. >> and conscious neck restraint to control, but not render the subject unconscious, is that right. >> yes. >> by apply light to moderate
pressure. >> that would be . >> and if you could go to rman ii, highlights that. and conscious neck restraint used on someone actively resisting? >> yes. >> and unconscious neck restraint for somebody actively or to save a person's life. >> yes. >> and somebody whose less attempts would be less effective, but not for persons passively resistant? >> that's correct. >> now i'd like to draw your
attention to may 25, 2020. can you tell the jury when you first learned of the incident involving the defendant, officers thao, lane, kueng and george floyd? >> on monday evening around 9 p.m. back on may 25th, 2020 i received a call. i was at my residence, and i received a call from one of my -- i think it was a deputy chief that informed me that minneapolis police officers have responded to 38th and chicago and while attempting to take someone into custody that-- which i learned now to be
mr. floyd, they believed that he would not make it or survive so he was being transported via ambulance to hennepin county medical center and while at least the information i had that evening at 9:00 p.m., at that time at least i was told was still alive, i decided to contact the minnesota bureau of criminal apprehension-- >> c-span2 live this morning for the trial of minneapolis police officer derek chauvin who is on trial for the death of george floyd, and you're watching c-span2. >> note your appearances. >> [inaudible] >> if an attorney is present and going to the podium you