Skip to main content

tv   Day 7 of Trial for Derek Chauvin Accused in Death of George Floyd  CSPAN  April 6, 2021 8:25pm-9:51pm EDT

8:25 pm
determination and based on the ruling will you testify and will go from there and i don't want to push through a ruling and we need to try carefully, his amendment right is a broad one and i agree the link to possible prosecution if everything is linked then it's a blinking prohibition that that is not the case. so everybody's got their homework. >> but for now don't waste your time on the other stuff it's a narrow limited area that we havb to talk about. >> will probably start up at 91 when the jury. >> in recess, thinkingnk mr. ha.
8:26 pm
>> watching live coverage on c-span2 on the seventh day of the trial former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin. [inaudible] >> next witness. >> your honor the state calls kurt yang.
8:27 pm
>> stand right here in raise your right hand. >> do you swear the testimony will be the truth and nothing but the truth. >> i do. >> thank you, sir. >> first of all if you feel comfortable doing so we would appreciate if you could remove your massive you can be heard more clearly. >> yes, sir. >> begin by stating your name. >> my name is kurt yang first name is kurt, last name is yang. >> good morning. >> i'm employed with the police department. >> how long have you been employed by the city ofou minneapolis. >> wfor proximally 24 years. >> what is your current position
8:28 pm
with minneapolis. >> my current position at crisiy intervention training corps near for the a department. >> your current rank? >> i would like you to tell the jury about yourself how old are you. >> i will be 50 this year. >> and you indicated you been employed by mpb for 24 years. >> approximately 24 years. >> any share withh the jury your educational background. >> i received my bachelors in psychology criminal justice and my masters degree in my doctorate in general psychology. >> when did you complete your doctorate. >> i completed back in 2014. >> after you started with mpvh did you go through the academy. >> yes, i did. >> describe that experience, what year didcr you start. >> i started as a cadet in
8:29 pm
september actually septemberer f 1996 i had to take additional college courses because of the then cadet program and then i went to the academy. >> after you completed the course of the academy did you enter the field training program. >> yes, i did. >> i believe it is approximately six months, five or six months it's been a long time >> after you completed your field training, what was your first assignment. >> i was assigned to downtown precinct at that field training. >> as a patrol officer? >> how long did you serve as a patrol officer before being promoted to sergeant? >> i was a patrol officer for not including specialty unit
8:30 pm
over ten years. >> would you please describe some of the precincts to which you were assigned in your assignments before promoted. >> i was assigned downtown precinct and signed to the police activity and housing patrol, school patrol and fifth precinct when i got promoted i was assigned to the precinct of supervisor orientation and i went to robbery for my supervisory and then i was assigned to downtown as a supervisor before i became crisis intervention training corps nader. >> as a patrol officer have you ever been in a situation where it's been necessary to use force? >> yes. >> have you ever arrested the suspect. >> have you ever arrested the suspect who was reluctant to be arrested? >> yes. >> you have had to handcuff
8:31 pm
people who were struggling questioning. >> yes. >> now you're the crisis training coordinator and where are you assigned as a crisis training corps nader. >> i'm assigned to the training unit. >> where is that located. >> on the north side. can you please describe your role as a crisis training corps nader. >> i am responsible for elaborating incarnating and community members and the escalation and they also trainer officers to. >> what did you mean by crisis. >> it's an event situation beyond and beyond the control
8:32 pm
sometimes they don't know what to do to bring them back down to .the level. >> can you share some examples of types of crises? >> crisis can be mental illness related or situational, and there's so affected that they don't know what to do and that could be a crisis. >> can intoxication be a crisis. >> intoxication can be a crisis. >> in drugs or alcohol? inin certain types of anxiety could be a crisisco questioning. >> yes and pertaining to a person inn crisis? >> at a high level can you
8:33 pm
explain what the policy requires? >> the policy requires what is safe and feasible that we shelled the escalate. >> to the minneapolis police department i'm assuming the training corps nader you're aware of any training or tools that provide law enforcement officers to abide by this policy? >> yes. >> does that include training officers to recognize when they may be in some of the types of crisis questioning. >> yes. >> there is a specific crisis intervention training course that minneapolis police department sponsors or puts on at the t training center. >> that is right. >> your role as corps nader to bring the instructors and for that. >> have you been through the course itself. >> i've been through the course and i sat through some of the
8:34 pm
courses. >> exhibit 203 which we won't publish at this time in those training records indicate that crisis intervention training was offered in 2016 and also 2018 and i would like to talk to you about the larger block the 2016 block, first i have to ask you do you recognize the name derek chauvin, how do you recognize the. >> yes i recognize the name through training. >> you're familiar with thiss person? >> no. >> would you recognize him if he saw him. >> yes. >> you see him in the courtroom today is. >> yes he has a mask on, i am assuming that is him. >> may the record reflect the witnesses identified. >> exhibit 203 the training record indicated in 2016 the defendant participated in a
8:35 pm
lengthier course approximately a 40 hour course in crisis intervention training, are you familiar with that course the 40 hour training course and is that a course that you particularly participated in as a student. >> that was delivered to the department and the officers association is. >> and you in general terms explain what the course covers. >> that course covers individual and crisis symptoms and hade-escalation strategies used for individual and crisis, the scenario-based t training. >> what you mean by that. >> the trainer association of sprofessional actors to command and conduct crisis scenarios and they have to use the strategies
8:36 pm
to bring them down or help them out. >> so the officers are given an opportunity to practice and recognize what may be signs of persons in crisis and responded properly questioning. >> yes. >> i would like to talk to you about a related concept are you familiar with the critical decision-making model. >> sim. >> how are you familiar with a model. >> i attended the critical deficient model was introduced to us by the police executive reform we attended a training session that was conducted by representative of the police forum and we adopted the model to mpd youth to guide officers in the decision-making process. >> is a critical decision-making
8:37 pm
model is there an application to crisis intervention? >> yes. >> also an application to use of force. >> sometimes have to be made contemporaneously. >> i'd like to publish 276 the critical decision making model that recognizes documents. >> is a critical decision-making you're familiar. >> can you explain based on your familiarity with this graphic the middle circle. >> the middle circle respect and trust those are the pillars of proceduraled justice. >> what is procedural justice. >> basically the legitimacy and all action, what we do that are
8:38 pm
legitimate and that is procedural justice legitimacy. >> the training center also offers courses in procedural justice as well. >> that is correct. >> this critical decision-making model is adopted in i procedural justice material. >> that is correct. >> going back to the outer part of the circle of the first step of information gathering you see that it goes it a wheel that is supposed to represent critical decision-making or thinking. >> that is correct. >> we referred a little bit about the critical thinking decision-making model already but i would like you to discuss how this works in the context of crisis intervention startingh with the first block. >> study with information gathering we believe this has not only for crisis but especially for crisis that is why our crisis curriculum and
8:39 pm
when you see the information gathering is crucial to how what tactics and what decisions can be based on dispatch. >> observation of what. >> observation of the scene, the person of what is going on. >> some of the observations for example can be physical observation, the officer coulder look at the person and make an assessment as to whether or not there's a behavior crisis. >> listening is also important. >> any other information that an officer would assess were taken whether considering a person in crisis. >> even listening, listening is key, if you observe a hands on a
8:40 pm
person you can sense them tensing up and if the person is in crisis or not. >> going to the next step takenn information and potentially assessing it, what is the threat risk assessment. >> it's a possibility of something bad happening in the threat is in danger and whether the danger will cause harm or not. >> with risk it's a potential and does not necessarily mean that the person is being threatened or themselves is threatened. >> that is correct. >> it's a mere possibility andbi many people could present and so far everybody present some sort of a risk. it's up to the officer in the information gathering to determine whether the risk is small, larger or elevates to a threat. >> sustain. >> how does officer assess a
8:41 pm
threat and the risk is small, large or could develop into a threat. >> that is up to the officer in the information that they have at that time. >> the next step after the threat or risk assessment authority to act, can you please describe how that step is taken in the context of crisis intervention. >> the authority to act is based on all policy and based on case law to the individuals in crisis and those are some of the authority that we have with people in crisis. >> some of the policies and the authority could include the de-escalation policy in the crisis intervention policy. >> yes, sir. >> the next step the goals and actions please describe the thinking model and crisis intervention regarding goals and
8:42 pm
actions. >> the contingency based on the information in the ultimate goal in action to see if that person needs help and what kind help and do they need to go to the hospital or turned over to somebody that has authority to turn over to that person. and is determined to see that person needs help. >> the next block of crisis intervention to review and reassess, can you please describe how that works in the scenario. >> has information become available you continue to review and reassess the situation to see the escalation and it's not working and to adjust your technique. to adjust your goals and action.
8:43 pm
>> for example initially the goal is to arrest someone after taking information if you determine the person needed medical attention can could you act on that and what would action be if the person was in need of a a medical attention. >> for some reason you get medical attention. >> that would also relate to the authority to act is that right? >> looking at the policy and a duty to provide medical attention in the policy. >> right. >> how is a critical decision making model imparted to minneapolis police officer in the training program. >> we believe in the application of the deficiency making model, i introduces model with approvah of course into the department of
8:44 pm
2018. >> you been in a situation where you had to use force and in the field for a long time, do you have an assessment as to whethet or not this model is useful in the field. >> i believe it is useful that is why we introduces model. >> is it practical? >> i believe it isll practical. can you explain how so, some of the situations involving police officers occur fairly quickly. >> that is true is it possible for a police officer to use the cortical thinking model on the field when events are unfolding quickly? >> it is possible we use this model on memory and when we talk about fast evolving situations i know they do exist and do happen but a lot of the times we have
8:45 pm
the time to slow things down and reevaluate and reassess and we go through this model. do you provide this training because you believe that work. >> i do not provide this training because i do believe it works. >> i am no further questions.
8:46 pm
>> good morning sir,. >> thank you for being here with us today, i have a few follow-up questions, your role with the minneapolis police department is currently training officers involved in the crisis intervention technique. >> that is correct. >> as well as the critical decision-making model. correct sir. >> you assisted the minneapolis police department in developing its policies and procedures surrounding the crisis intervention technique as well as critical decision-making policies right? >> right. >> you introduce these policies with the approval from the chief for the higher representative. >> i have to be approved before we can get through this. >> the trainings ultimately help form some policies of the minneapolis police department. >> but not the critical issue it is not in the policy.
8:47 pm
>> but the crisis intervention technique is inn the policy. >> the crisis intervention is in the policy. >> you a long career as a police officer in the field and also in investigationnd units so you have your own personal experiences in dealing with people on the street, are there situations in your own experience where you had to use force on someone and other people observing the use of force don't like what you're doing. >> yes, sir. >> i believe you would describe sometimes that the public does not understand that police actions can look really bad. >> yes, sir. >> they may be lawful if they look bad. >> yes, sir. >> part of the whole goal of the crisis intervention technique or policies is to not only deal with the suspect but also other
8:48 pm
people who may be watching, correct. >> that is correct. >> in situations where citizens or bystanders start to congregate and watch what police are doing you would agree that that could potentially become a crisis for those observers. >> potentially yes. >> and you trained officers and how to deal with the situations. >> that is correct. >> when we look at the critical decision-making model, that is what you would describe as a rapid dynamic model. >> yes, sir. >> is not just focusing on one particular thing it is assessing many, many things that are happening in the context of an arrest. >> yes, sir. >> some of those things could be ethe interaction that they're
8:49 pm
having with citizen observers. >> yes. >> the training that you provide their materials that the department maintains correct? >> that is correct. >> i'm going to ask the court to just explain to the witness what has been marked as exhibit 122,i do you recognize this to be training materials prepared by the minneapolis police department crisis intervention team. >> yes, sir. >> i'm going to have you look at this, this is the material in the training material that the crisis intervention team present to the officers in the 40 hour
8:50 pm
training. >> no, sir. >> this is the training that you received. >> this is the training that i created it wasn't delivered to all the officers. >> this is something you created to train minneapolis policein officer. >> yes. >> this is a more recent model than 2018 model? >> this was a program that we created to target in the cadet academy. this is separate from what chauvin and the other officers were doing. >> some of the information is generally applicable to all police officers who are trained in crisise intervention as well as de-escalation. >> yes, sir. >> officers are trained to look for potential signs of aggression from suspects or crowd observers. >> yes, sir. >> what are the potential signs of aggression the officers are trained to watch for. >> based on the document that
8:51 pm
you see here, muscle tension, hesitation, on contact. >> an officer who is making an arrest of the suspect and bystanders watching and growing their intensity, these are behaviors the officers specifically change to t watch r either the suspect or observer. >> yes your honor.
8:52 pm
8:53 pm
[silence] >> mr. yang, sgt yang as a part of your role in the minneapolis police department, do you train
8:54 pm
cadets recruits as well as veteran officers? >> yes, i do. >> can you describe the difference between the training that a cadet would receive versus a veteran officer. >> this will be given to the recruits and officers that have gone through the association training of crisis de-escalation and we introduce other to them like autism and go to different topics of the training so it's a little bit different is w different from what the recruits in the regular officers will get. >> the information is generally the same type of broad category information. >> it is similar, yes.
8:55 pm
>> right. the information that a veteran officer would receive in a 40cl hour training would be inclusive of what to look for in terms of crisis, would it not? >> yes. >> you would train officers on the policy about crisis intervention, correct? >> yes. >> you would train them what to look for when a person is in crisis. >> the veteran officer referring to the 40 hour training, i am not done the 40 hour training association. >> you don't know any information that the veteran training officer that the veteran officers would receive. >> i do know some but that not the entire.
8:56 pm
>> you have trained veteran officers yourself. >> i do but not in the 40 hour week. course.e refresher type >> yes. >> in the refresher type course you discuss with officers the policy of crisis intervention. >> yes, do you discuss the signs to look for in terms of suspects and individuals observing. >> especially the suspects. >> the ultimately you would agree that that training also includes the critical model.mamaking >> yes. >> the criticalel decision-makig model is not limited to simply the suspect correct? >> is that a topic where he can leave now. >> correct. >> i'm sorry. >> objection is overruled so you cannot answer.
8:57 pm
>> the creek will decision-making policy that you trained veteran officers on would be inclusive of people other than just the suspect, is that correct. >> there is no policy on the decision-making model only on the policy the critical decision-making model i keep calling a policy that is my fault but the decision-making model is notot limited to interpreting or responding to the suspect exclusively is that? >> that is correct. >> an officer is trained in the decision-making model to go out and review the entire unit of the situation of totality of the circumstances is that correct. >> correct. >> the totality of the circumstances is more than just how you interact with the
8:58 pm
subject whom you are arresting. >> that is correct. >> that would include citizen bystanders. >> that is correct. >> what to do when a citizen bystanders start filming you. >> that is correct. >> how to interpret whether citizens pose a threat or risk, right. >> right. >> how you would consider your own interactions with the suspect themselves. >> that is correct. >> you described in the critical decision-making model of being a dynamic ever-changing thing based upon information that comes to the officers in real time. >> an officer may consider used force move backwards in the policy but may havep to jump somewhere else on the policy because of new information or the model. it's a constantly evolving
8:59 pm
process where an officer is entrusted to make decisions based on all of the information? that he or she perceives, correct. >> correct. >> the also would include training, they are training. >> yes, sir. >> and other things that may not be apparent to a citizen. >> tactical decision-making for example. >> yes, sir. >> knowing medical help was on the way. >> yes, sir. >> making decisions about officer safety. >> yes, sir. >> it is not just one small thing that your focus only on the subject that you are resting your taking in a lot of information and processing at all simultaneously through the critical decision-making model.
9:00 pm
>> yes, sir.n >> in terms of all take this down for now but in terms of information that you advise orte talk to officers, veteran officers about how to recognize the signs someone in crisis. >> yes, sir. >> the minneapolis police the opolicy on intervention has a pretty specific definition of what constitutional crisis, right? >> it's not limited to someone who may have a mental health problem? . . . >> yes, sir. >> it could include people who are simply experiencing some event that is overwhelming them, right? >> yes, sir. >> and that may be losing a job or getting a divorce, but it could be what that person is
9:01 pm
observing at the time, agreed? >> yes, sir. >> and so the crisis intervention policy actually defines crisis as having a trajectory, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and that and that trajectory can increase in its severity over time? >> yes sir. >> and that's why it becomes important for an officer to create time and distance. >> yes sir. >> and creating time and distance for an officer is an important part of the de-escalation process, is it not? >> yes sir. >> and would you agree that you train police officers that as that intensity of crisis increases, the risk or threat to the officer grows greater? >> i don't believe i trained
9:02 pm
specifically like that because intensity -- my experience as intensity increases, you have the time you try to bring it down, not increased the intensity of it. >> what i'm talking about is not the officer trying to increase the intensityit of it. my question is this: as a person is in crisis, and the intensity of their own personal crisis grows, you train officers that as they kind of get more intense, the risk to the officer or others is greater? >> yes, sir. >> and in fact, officers are trained to respond to that in a variety of ways, right? >> yes, sir.
9:03 pm
>> some of the techniques that minneapolis police department train both veterans and recruits would be to have a confidence about them, right? >> confidence about them? yes, sir. >> and officers should try to appear confident in his or her actions. >> yes, sir. >> they should also try to stay calm. >> yes, sir. >> they should also try to maintain space. >> yes. >> they should speak slowly and softly.ta >> yes, sir. >> they should avoid steering or eye contact. >> yes, sir. >> and ultimately, when a police officer is dealing with any situation, they could be dealing with any number of people who are in crisis, right? >> yes, sir. >> the subject, the arrestee may
9:04 pm
be in crisis. >> yes, sir. >> people watching may be in crisis. a. >> yes sir. >> another officer could be in crisis. >> yes, sir. >> and in officer has to take all of that a man to do this assessment and make a determination as to what his or her next steps would be. >> yes sir. >> and the observations of the officer in a situation i think you described on direct examination, you described an officer will also take into and apply to the critical decision-making model his or hirono sensory perception. >> yes sir. >> so the touch of having a suspect tents were loose.
9:05 pm
what they hear comes into play. so if they hear people threatening them were potentiallync threatening violence, that goes into that critical decision-making model as well. >> yes sir. and often times the scene of an arrested individual is very tense. >> yes sir. i have no further questions. if76 we could publish exhibit 2,
9:06 pm
please. >> so i am displaying again the critical decision model that you've been testifying about. again, the direct testimony was using this in terms of assessing a person in crisis with a purpose of determining whether or not they needed a medical intervention, iss that right? >> yes, sir. >> in discussing this, and i guess relating it to some of the broader force concepts that the defense counsel was questioning about, again all of these things must be taken into account when deciding the next step, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and the officer always has to keep in mind their authority to act. that's one of the parts of the model. >> that's right. >> defense counsel asked you if the officer should just focus on one small thing.
9:07 pm
and i would like you to make some sort of comment on differentiating between a small thing and a big thing, because you would agree something that is a big thing would probably be more important than a t small thing, right? >> it depends what the big thing is or the small thing is. >> for example, if we are looking at assessing somebody's medical condition for the purpose of rendering emergency aid, would that be a big thing or a small thing? >> that would be a big thing. >> if that is contrasted with, say,y, a 17-year-old filling you with a camera, would that be a big thing, the filming, or a small thing? >> it would be a small thing. >> so then if you are taking all of the situations, all of the situations intoig account, you have a big thing and a small thing. you are looking at your authority to act, and that's
9:08 pm
policy? >> that's right. >> and policy would include the policy governing the use of force and that it must be reasonable, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and it would also include the duty to render medical aid, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> as the policy is written. >> yes, sir. >> which includes not only contacting the ambulance, but performing emergency aid like chest compressions was cpr? >> yes, sir. >> nothing further. >> sergeant yang, in terms of the critical decision-making model, again, you are analyzing all these things, medical aid, threats from citizens or observers, other people recording what you're seeing and feeling.
9:09 pm
it always premised on whether this safe and feasible to do something, correct? >> yes, sir. >> nothing further. >> [inaudible] >> thank you, your honor. >> is that your water, sir? [inaudible] next witness, please. >> thank you, your honor. the state calls johnny mercil. >> do you swear or affirm under
9:10 pm
perjury that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth and nothing but the truth? if we could have you state your full name and spell each of your names. >> johnny mercil. >> thank you, your a server, how are you employed? >> city of minneapolis police department. >> and what do you do for the city of minneapolis? >> i am currently on medical leave but i'm with the ambrose police department. >> how long have you dealt with tmpd? >> since 1996. >> i would like for you to tell the jury about yourself, first. can you share your educational background? >> i have a four-year degree in criminal justice studies. >> what year? >> 95. >> and after you graduated from the university, did you get a
9:11 pm
job in law enforcement right away or go elsewhere? >> i got hired from the minneapolis police department in 1996 and joined the police academy. >> describe your academy experience. >> as a cadet we did a combination of the police academy along with college courses to qualify with the minnesota. >> did you take and pass the post pass as a licensed peace officer? >> [inaudible] >> yes, your honor. yes, sir. >> after you completed your curse work at the academy did you go to the field training program? >> yes, sir. >> how long were you in that program? >> about four months at that time. >> you received your first assignment as a a police office, right? >> yes, sir. >> can you tell the jury what w your first assignment was, where were you and what were your duties? >> i was assigned to the
9:12 pm
precinct of southeast minneapolis. the duties were patrolling the streets, answering 911 calls. >> how long did youou serve as a patrol officer in the third precinct? >> i initially wish -- themu response team. >> referring to the community response team we've called the crt. a. >> what does that do? >> we respond to the local community about prostitution, drug dealing. >> how long were you with the team? >> i did that for about three years. >> at what was your assignment afterwards? >> i went to the official unit, and that was technically the downtown unit at the time. >> what did the patrol unit do? >> mainly crowd control for many times in minneapolis. we focused on downtown minneapolis.wn
9:13 pm
>> how long did you do that? >> full-time for about a year and a half, and then i went to patrol in downtown precinct. >> how long were you in the downtown middle watch assignment? >> downtown middle watch until 2006. and then i got promoted as sergeant. >> in order to be promoted for sergeant, did you take an exam? >> yes, sir. the civil service exam along with the assessment center. >> after you were selected as sergeant, you received your first assignment. what was that? >> the unit in downtown near city hall. i went to the juvenile unit and then eventually ended up back downtown on patrol as a supervisor. >> and how long did that take? what year are we up to now? >> i think we are up to about 2007, 2008. >> and after that?
9:14 pm
>> i was there for a couple of years. i ended up going back to the patrol as a sergeant. i charge the unit from 2009. i went back to the streets for about a year and a half and then to the minneapolis police department's gang enforcement team as a sergeant. and then from there, i investigated crimes, gun crimes, and after that assignment, i was on the north side on patrol for about a year, year and a half and then i went back downtown as a sergeant response team, the team downtown. thand then 2017, i took the exam for the lieutenant and passed and was a lieutenant in 2017. >> and where were you assigned as a lieutenant? >> after i got promoted i was transferred to the training division in charge of the use of force. >> i would like youju to talk to the jury a little bit about your own background for the use of
9:15 pm
force. that was part of your academy training? >> partially. you get to be familiar with the useet of the academy. >> after you left the academy, did you have to take refresher courses that would include the use of training each year? >> yes sir. >> in order to maintain your post. >> that's right. >> have you had training beyond that what was presented at the academy and your yearly certification? >> yeses sir. >> i became a part time instructor in about 2010 and i maintained that part-time status asse a use of force instructor until i was promoted as lieutenant or i went to the training unit full-time. >> what did you do to become qualified as a force instructor? >> went throughgh different
9:16 pm
courses. i also started training jujitsu for the department as a part of our ground defense initiative. several other classes in different academies. >> and i would like to maybe qualify a few terms. we talk about the use of force and use of force training and we also hear the term defensive tactics. can you dif differentiate betwen the two? >> i think that they are interchangeable. the use of force is more appropriate but the defensive tactics has been more of a term that has been used longer so people refer to this as a defensive tactic instructor. >> led the defensive tactic in terms of defense tactics and instruction, would this include more hands-on type instruction? you mentioned brazilian jujitsu for example.
9:17 pm
are you interested before becoming a police officer and how did that go? i got interested in it from the other use of forcend instructors and really fell in love with the artform and what its implications and uses are for the law enforcement specifically. >> would you please provide a high level overview of what brazilian jujitsu is and some of its basic principles? >> it is a form of martial art that refers to leverage and body control and deemphasizes strikes gthere's no punching or kicking it's using your body weight kind of like rustling and joint lock manipulation on the restraint. things that gain compliance as well as physical body control to get people to comply.
9:18 pm
>> so, you use that phrase pain compliance. what is that? >> a unit technique that causes the person using it against to comply with whatever it is you are asking them to do. >> so if for example you are familiar with the game mercy where you lock fingers and twist out and somebody has to submit. is it similar to that? >> although brazilian jujitsu isn't the only defensive tactic the officers are trained on is it? >> no, sir. >> it is just one of a variety of tools that can be employed to deploy force, is that right? >> that's correct. >> for the purpose of this.
9:19 pm
>> the use of force instructor, did you have to become knowledgeable in all of the relevant departmental policies and procedures regarding the use of force, the 5-300 series? >> yes, sir. >> as well as state law governing the use of force that is integrated into the minneapolis department policy? >> yes, sir. >> and you indicated that you were the lieutenant over in the training center, is that right? >> training division, sir. >> and please describe your role as a lieutenant in the training division. >> in the use of force and also in charge of the operation training and police range. and i was in charge of all of our continuing education to make sure that our officers were fulfilling to maintain the license to be a police officer. >> and as a part of that to make sure you are properly reporting to the post board, you keep
9:20 pm
records, sign in sheets of particular officers having completed a training, is that right? >> that's right. >> and those are reported into the workforce director program? >> yes, sir. >> so you have an accurate record of who's been trained in what? >> yes, sir. >> and you're the lieutenant of the training division and your use of force. you coordinated pre- service and training? >> the preservice side would be use of force, the range and patrol operations. the other is what we consider to be the post service side. >> as the lieutenant obviously, you are in charge of, you are in the position of rank overf the sergeant, is that right? >> that's right. >> and those are usually the level -- the trainers would be a at the sergeant level, is that
9:21 pm
right? >> maybe officers with some sergeants overseeing. >> is the lieutenant and person in chargee of this training, are you familiar with the curriculum that is imparted upon both preservice and in-service trainings? >> yes, sir. >> you helped develop the curriculum? >> yes, sir. >> getting you helped improve the curriculum? >> yes sir. >> it includes a general booklet that is put together by the defense tactics instructors, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and that contains the general concepts for the use of force that are imparted on the preservice trainees and in-service trainees, is that right? >> that's correct. >> if i could show exhibit 126 just for the witness. showing you what's been marked for identification as exhibit 126, and it's labeled minneapolis police department
9:22 pm
use of force manual academics and techniques, produced by the mpd defensive tactics team. are you familiar with this document and its predecessor documents? >> yes, sir. >> does this document contains sort of the general curriculum and knowledge that is in part upon the mpd preservice and in-service trainings? >> yes, sir. >> i would offer exhibit 126. >> 126 is received. >> and we won't publish that at this point. do you also participate in and approve various classroom powerpoint training sessions that are part of the plan, both preservice and in-service trainings? >> yes, sir. >> and at this time, just for the witness i would like to show what's been marked for identification as exhibit 119. exhibit 119 is a slide document that is labeled 2018 defensive
9:23 pm
tactics in-service,? is that right? >> yes, sir. >> if you could show the witness the second page. >> do you see your name on the slide listed at the top of the instructors? >> yes, sir. >> are you familiar with the content of this particular powerpoint presentation or slide? y >> yes, sir. >> did you helped create it? >> yes, sir. >> and you improved its use during the training, is that right? >> that's correct. >> and it is listed as the fall of 2018, so this is what would have been provided for in-service training. so experienced performance officers during this 2018 session, correct? >> that's correct. >> is the training provided -- you have quite a few minneapolis police department officers that have to go through the training? >> yes, sir.
9:24 pm
>> so they are not allre takingt at the same time. >> that's correct.s, >> but if someone has completed the fall, 2018 in-service defensive tactics training, does that mean they saw this? >> yes, sir. >> i will offer exhibit 119. >> [inaudible] >> 119 is received. >> then we talked about training records as well and sign in sheets. i would like to show the witness exhibit 124. >> exhibit 124 is labeled 2018 and you will in-service training program, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> i see your name at the top as one of the instructors. >> that's correct. >> this is a sign in sheet that would show different officers that would sign in having taken the training? >> that's correct. >> turned to page two.
9:25 pm
do you see the name derek chauvin on the training roster? >> yes, sir. >> are you familiar with the name derek chauvin? >> yes, sir. do you recognize mr. chauvin if you saw him in the courtroom today? >> yes, sir. >> do you see them today? >> i do, sir. >> can you point to him and describe what he's wearing? >> he has a dark [inaudible] >> let the record reflect the witness identified the defendant. >> it well. >> go back to page one and at this time i will offer exhibit 124. >> 124 is received. >> permission to publish 124.
9:26 pm
>> if you could highlighted the instructor block title. all right, again you see this is a 2018 training provided on october 1, 2018, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> you are listed as one of the trainers, correct? >> that's correct. >> and if you can go to page two. highlight, please. >> and there you can see that the training was attended by the defendant, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> you can take that down. >> how many times do you think you've provided training like
9:27 pm
what we saw in the exhibit to various officers over the years? >> hundreds of times, sir. >> and does this slide that you've identified as being the 2018 version fairly consistent withy prior versions of the use of force training provided? >> the documentation, sir? >> yes. >> yes. >> when you do the use of force training there's the classroom component and then there's the more tactical component, practical exercises, is that right? >> that's correct. >> what we saw in the exhibit was a classroom component? >> i believe so. >> well, what i'd like to do now is publish exhibit 119. and just like you've done hundreds of times before, i may have you explain some of the selected slides to the jury.
9:28 pm
>> yes, sir. >> please turn to page two. 119. and again, you can see your name listed on this in-service training as one of the instructors, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and turn to page four. page four of the slide contains policy references, is that right? >> yes you sir, it does. >> you testified you are familiar with the policy. one of the objectives of training is to impart the policy, teach the policy to the attending officers. >> yes, sir. >> and so, this is from the minneapolis policy manual 5-301. would you please describe for the jury what this slide is intended to convey? >> it looks like there's three
9:29 pm
bullet points. first is o sanctity of life, protection of public. that is the cornerstone of the policy. also, clear and consistent policies. we like our policies to be easily understood. and then use of force standards fall under the fourth amendment reasonableness standard. >> we are talking about use of force. i'd like to turn to page seven of the exhibit, 119. when we talk about use of force, explain to the jury what is force? >> it is listed on this slide here.. intentional police contact involving any weapon, equipment, tool device or animal that inflicts pain orr injury to another. physical strikes to the body, physical contact to the body that inflicts pain or injury or restraint applied in a manner or circumstance likely to produce
9:30 pm
injury. >> so, you train officers that restraint is a form of force, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and when applying force or restraint, it has to be reasonable, correct? >> yes. >> and the time it starts and stops. >> correct. >> you're familiar with the concept of proportionality? >> yes, sir. >> if you could return to exhibit page eight. when you discuss the proportionality to the trainees, you use this exhibit, right? >> yes, sir. >> in general, without using the slide for a minute, explain to the jury as you would to a group of trainees what is proportional force? >> you want to use the least amount of force necessary to meet your objectives to control.
9:31 pm
and if the lower uses of force or do not work, would not work, then you can increase the level of force against that person. >> if it does not work or would be unsafe to try it seems you may have used that phrase a time or two. >> yes, sir. >> is that a phrase you use and pretty much every training that you've given on the force? >> we discussed proportionality >> and you said that you want to use the least amount of force is necessary. >> yes, sir. >> why is that? >> because if you can use a lower amount of force to meet your objectives, it's safer and better for everybody involved. >> and when we talk about proportionality's, proportional to what? >> i would say the level of resistance that you're getting. >> and the level of resistance would be dependent upon who?
9:32 pm
>> the subject. that you are using force upon. >> the specific subject. >> yes, sir. >> at this time i'm going to ask you to publish exhibit 110. this is an item that's already been received into evidence. do you recognize exhibit 110? >> yes, sir. >> what is that? >> it's technically called the defense controlled guide but people would refer to this is a force continuum. >> and we were discussing the concept of proportionality. you talked about subject behavior, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> subject behavior is on the left-hand side. and the subject behavior can vary from passive resistance all the way to active aggression, correct? >> yes, sir. >> in terms of proportionality, there are various tools available to the law enforcement
9:33 pm
officer based on the subject behavior, correct? >> that is correct. >> so these tools, if we can take an example with the active aggression, one response could be watched? >> up to and including deadly force. >> but then for the lower levels of subject activities such as passive resistance, that could include things like [inaudible] >> that's correct. >> and is this something that you use with law enforcement officers trained to represent the concept of proportionality? >> i'm not sure if we would use this specific proportionality use of force, but we have used it in the past to describe the levels of resistance increased at the officer's response and also increases. >> and similarly, as the levels of resistance decreased, what should the officer do?
9:34 pm
>> you should de-escalate the use of force as well. >> and that is actually listed on the respond to controlled co. >> correct. >> if you could circle that, your honor. and you indicated that you train officers that they should use the least amount of force that is available or that is reasonable under the circumstances, is that right? >> to the objectives, yes. >> so you want to use the least amount of force if you are trying to control somebody, it might be a low level of forceet than if you try to get them in handcuffs, so you want to use a low level of force possible to meet those objectives. >> the low levelsce of force ist fair to say when you are using force people can h get hurt is that one of the reasons it's better to use the lesser amount
9:35 pm
of force? >> yes, sir. >> and another reason is that is required. if you could go back to exhibit 119 and publish page 12 and you train the officers, is that right? of the minnesota statutes provide this is an integrated mpd policy. i would ask if you could please highlight for the first section, i'm sorry, the second section. what is the policy of the statute provided regarding the amount of restraint that could be used on the arrested a subject.>> >> the first line talks about the officer making the arrest and any more strength than is necessary for the arrest and detention. >> what does that mean?
9:36 pm
>> it means the minimum amount of force that you need to accomplish the objective in detaining somebody is what you should use you are familiar with of the circumstances here today, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> i need to show in a photo that has been received into evidence as exhibit 17. i would like to publish that. you see exhibit 17 and the defendant on top of a subject that you know to be george floyd, is that right? >> yes sir. >> is this a use of force?
9:37 pm
>> yes, sir. >> if you could take that down, please. i want you to discuss, in terms of using force and using it safely, what do you teach your trainees about sort of the frailty of the human body? it'sht important to be careful with people, is that right? >> is very important to be careful. >> there are some parts of the body that are prone t to injury than others, correct? >> that's correct. >> you train on that? >> yes, sir. >> if we could display exhibit 119, page 49. now this is f from strength training, is that right? >> that's right. >> is it generally helpful describing some of the more sensitive parts of the body as you train minneapolis police officers? >> related to strikes, yes.
9:38 pm
>> would it be related to other types of restraint as well? >> i think you could stretch that some. what's the question exactly, i'm sorry. >> is it fair a to say the areas that are marked in red, the red zones are a more prone to injury than other parts that could be serious? >> yes. >> so, for example, the neck and .the head. >> correct. >> and the sternum or the chest. >> yes, sir. >> and this wouldn't just pertain to strikes. it could also pertain to pressure, couldn't it? >> yes. >> is that something you probably knew before you did any use of t force training? >> yes, sir. i would like you to then discuss with the jury the concept of
9:39 pm
neck restraints and if we could publish it page 52 of the exhibit. looking at the time period that you are doing this training, neck restraints were authorized by the mpd policy, right? >> that's right. >> can you describe the training that you offered regarding the use of neck restraints? >> we go over the techniques, definition of the neck restraints and then we go into different reps to get the officers comfortable in doing it. >> gave the jury an overview of what they neck restraint is. >> it is referred to as a vascular neck restraint so slowing the blood flow to the brain with the intent to gain control of the subject. >> and there are two different types of neck restraints in the
9:40 pm
mpd policies, is that correct? >> yes, sir. the two levels are conscious neck restraint, so that means you wrapped somebody up and they are still conscious and you can gain compliance with many people with that and then there's unconscious and that is applying pressure when they are not complying you put pressure and therefore then compliant. how does one apply a neck restraint. >> we teach a couple of different techniques but the basic idea is your arm would be on the side of the neck and then there's a couple different hand placements. you apply pressure on both sides of the neck to gain compliance. >> and you were demonstrating using your arm to do this. >> that is correct. >> and it could also be done with the leg.
9:41 pm
does mpd train how to do that with the leg? >> they show the younger officers in the academy what that looks like. we do not train leg and neck restraints, as far to my knowledge. >> how would a trained neck restraint work? sorry, how would a trained leg neck restraint work? >> people that watch mma, professional fighters, they call it the triangle choke and mostly that is just what it's called that's when you place your legs on somebody's back across the site of their neck and a trap their arms of the person ends up having one arm in and their arm causes pressure on one side and the leg causes pressure on the second, and you can actually render somebody unconscious if you hold it that long. >> what part of the leg? >> the inner thigh. >> so in this scenario, using a leg to do a neck restraint,
9:42 pm
would the need to replace the elbow in terms of placement? or how would you describe it? >> i would say the knee doesn't really replace the elbow. cryour thigh would be across the side of somebody's neck y and yr leg across the back. and you protect the airway with of the space created with their arm being pinned there. >> if you could please display the next page, 53. use of neck restraints, you describe in using the concept of proportionality when it is authorized to use a neck restraint of two different varieties. >> yes, sir. subjects that are aggressive which means of assaulting, actively resisting and other techniques have a w particular e and then you can't use it on subjects that are passively resistant. >> and if you can go to the next slide on page 54.
9:43 pm
>> after the neck restraint is applied, there are certain guidelines that t have to be followed. is that right? >> that is correct. >> for the care of the individual upon whom it was applied. >> yes, sir. >> if we could publish exhibit 110, ringing the specific topic back to the concept of proportionality. do you have a stylus up there? yes, i do. >> you can touch the screen and make a mark. unconscious neck restraints. and unconscious neck restraint is when the person can be rendered unconscious, correct? intentionally so. >> yes, sir. >> would you please underline
9:44 pm
unconscious neck restraint as you see it in the response and control guide? >> yes, sir. and what subject activity, what alevel of subject activity woud be required to use and unconscious neck restraint according to this? would you agree with that? >> yes. the last slide we talked about and other techniques didn't work but definitely the aggression. >> if we look then, you can also find a conscious neck restraint and that is what is used for the purpose of control, correct? >> correct. can you underline where that is in this continuum? >> the neck restraint is authorized in the circumstances where there's active resistance, is that right? >> yes, sir. so then if there was something
9:45 pm
like passive resistance, the conscious neck restraint or the unconscious neck restraint would be authorized, is that right? >> that is correct. and the unconscious neck restraint wouldn't even be authorized for some form of active resistance. >> that's correct. and if the subject is offering noob resistance then no neck restraint would be authorized. >> that's correct. >> or any restraint. >> generally, no. >> in addition to the classroom training, you teach officer chauvin how tok do these neck restraints. >> yes, sir. at this time i would like to
9:46 pm
republish exhibit 217. is this an mpd trained neck restraint? >> no, sir. >> has it evero been? >> no, sir. is this an authorized restraint technique? >> the neck would be something that does have a use of force authorized. >> and under what circumstances would that be authorized, how long can you do that? >> it would depend on the circumstances. the type of resistance you're getting from the subject. >> and so, if there were, say for example, the subject was under control and handcuffed, would this be authorized? >> i would say no.
9:47 pm
continuing on this defensive tactic presentation if you could go back to exhibit 119, page 56 you also teach officers the proper handcuffing and techniques, is that right? >> yes sir. >> according to the handcuffed technique they are to be behind the back and double locked. >> [inaudible] >> [sidebar]
9:48 pm
[sidebar] we are going to take our morning break and reconvene at 11:
9:49 pm
9:50 pm
15 find out which u.s. presidents were caught in scandals. eleanor herman joins to share the stories from the book sex with presidents. subscribe where you get your podcasts and get information about all of the podcasts at


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on