tv Day 7 of Trial for Derek Chauvin Accused in Death of George Floyd CSPAN April 7, 2021 1:11am-2:36am EDT
homework. >> but for now don't waste your time on the other stuff it's a narrow limited area that we havb to talk about. >> will probably start up at 91 when the jury. >> in recess, thinkingnk mr. ha. >> watching live coverage on c-span2 on the seventh day of that we can have another hearing based on my review of the examination and the question by question basis. if not a proper invocation he is subject to contempt. but we get too far ahead. let's look at the questions we ask him. whether or not i widen the net e
k-e-r y-a-n-g. >> in morning. how you employed. >> i am employed with the minneapolis police department. >> how long it even a play by the city of minneapolis? >> approximately 24 years. >> what is your current position quick. >> currently i i am the training court needed for the department. >> current rank quick. >> sergeant. >> i would like you to tell the jury about yourself. holder you? >> i will be 50 this year. schleicher: you indicated you have been employed 24 years? >> approximately. schleicher: share with the jury your educational background. >> i received my bachelor
psychology criminal justice my masters in psychologyra and doctorate in general psychology. schleicher: when did you complete your doctorate? >> 2014. schleicher: after you started with mpd did you go to the academy? >> yes i did. schleicher: describe that experience. >> i started asou a a cadet september 1996. i had to take additional college courses because of the cadet program and then went to the academy. schleicher: after you completed the course did you enter the field training program? >> yes i did. schleicher: how long? >> five or six months. long time ago. schleicher: after field training what which firstng assignment? >> i was assigned if my memory serves me, downtown precinct.
schleicher: as a patrol officer? >> yes. schleicher: how long did you serve as a patrol officer before being promoted to sergeant? >> i would say that including over ten years. please describe fory the jury the precinct you were described before promoted to sergeant. >> in the fifth precinct and then when i got promoted i was assigned to the fourth precinct i went to robbery for the supervisory and then assigned to downtown before i
became the crisis coordinator. schleicher: as a patrol officer have you been in a situation it is necessary have you arrested a suspect? >> yes. >> that was reluctant to be arrested? >> yes. >> can people who are struggling? >> yes. >> now the crisis trading coordinator. >> currently. >> where is that located? >> the special operation center. schleicher: describe your role as crisis training court nader.
to collaborate with mental professionals and then to teach the officers the de-escalation. >> what do you mean by crisis? >> t that is beyond a person's coping mechanism and beyond their control sometimes they don't know what to do. and then to bring them back down. >> could you share with the jury the types of crisis. >> like a car crash for example, they are so affected by thato didn't know what to do. that's a good example of a
crisis. schleicher: intoxication? >> yes. >> drugs and alcohol. >> anxiety to be a crisis yes. schleicher: does mpd have a policy for a person in crisis? >> yes it does. schleicher: at a higher level what does it require? >> that it is feasible and shallow de-escalate. >> if the minneapolis police department as a training correlator any training or tools to buy by the policy include them to recognize when persons may be in crisis? om>> yes. there is a course that they
put on data training centers. >> is your role as coordinator you bring instructor. > correct. >> i have been to the course, yes and said to those courses. schleicher: exhibit two oh three contains training records and those indicate that crisis intervention training is offered 2016 and 2018. i would like to talk to you about the larger 2016 block. do you recognize the name derek chauvin? >> yes. schleicher: how? >> to training. schleicher: you are familiar with this person? >> no.
schleicher: would you. recognize them if you saw him? >> yes. schleicher: is he in the courtroom today? >> he has a mask on i assume that is him. schleicher: he has identified the defendant. the training record indicates 2016 andhe to participate in a lengthy are course approximately a 40 hour course of crisis intervention training. are you familiar with that type of course? >> yes. schleicher: is that a course you personally participated in as a student? >> it was delivered to the department of the association. >> just in general terms, explain what the course covers? >> an individual in crisis. the de-escalation strategies.
it is scenario -based training. the trainer brings and professional actors to come in to conduct crisis scenarios they are in a state of crisis. the officer has toin use the strategies to bring them down to precrisis level. schleicher: the offer on - - the officers are given an opportunity to respond appropriately depending on a crisis. >> yes. schleicher: a related concept critical decision-making model? >> yes. schleicher: how are you familiar with that model? >> the critical decision-making model introduced to us by a police
executive research forum. we attended a training session conducted from the police executive and we adapted that model for mpd use to guide our officers in their decision-making process. schleicher: does that critical decision-making model, is there an application to crisis intervention also to use of force? >> yes. >> sometimes those decisions have to made contemporaneously. >> at this time i would like to publish exhibit 276 the critical decision-making model. do you recognize this document? >> yes sir. schleicher: this is a critical decision-making model with which you are familiar. >> yes sir. schleicher: explain with your familiarity, the middle circle.
>> what you see in the middle circle is respect and trust those are the pillars of justice. schleicher: what is procedural justice? >> basically the legitimacy of all actions. what we do the acts are legitimate i. schleicher: the training center also offers courses in procedural justice as well. >> correct. >> this model is adapted from the material from their procedural justice material. >> yes. >> going back to the outer part of the circle, the first step of information gathering there is a wheel to represent critical decision-making or thinking. >> correct.
>> we heard about this critical decision-making model already. but discuss how this works in the context of crisis intervention. starting with the first block. >> information gathering especially for crisis and the first circle that information gathering is crucial to what tactics or decisions would be made and it is based on dispatch were our own officers observation. schleicher: observation of what? >> the scene, person, a lot is going on. schleicher: some of these observations could be physical. the officer could look at the person and make an assessment whether or not there is a behavioral crisis?
>> yes. schleicher: listening? >> yes. schleicher: any other information i and officer would generally assess are taken considering if a person is in crisis? >> even listening. listening is key. also touch if their hands on a person sometimes you can sense them tensing up that they are in a crisis or not. >> going to the next step taking that information and potentially assessing it what is the threat risk assessment? >> risk is the possibility and the threat is the danger. schleicher: with risk you say it's the potential it doesn't necessarily mean the person is threat and.
>> that's correct. >> just thes mere possibility. many people could present everybody present some sort of a risk. >> it's up to the officer in the information gathering to determine if that risk is small or large elevates a threat. how does the officer assess whether or not i'm sorry a risk is small or large were could develop into a threat? but that's up to the officers in the information they have at that time. >> the next step after the threat or risk assessment is the authority to act how does that happen with crisis intervention? >> the authority b b to act is based on state statutes for an individual in crisis and also the authority we have.
>> some of those policies and the authority include the use of force policy? >> yes. >> de-escalation policy. >> yes. >> crisis intervention. >> yes or. >> the next step of goals and actions, please describe the model in terms of crisis intervention with actions. >> goals and action is the contingency, the ultimate goal somebody in crisis to see if that person needs help do they need to go to the hospital or somebody that has the authority to watch over that person so that person needs help. schleicher: the next block could you please describe how that works in this scenario?
>> as information becomes ,available we continually reassess the situation to see if the desk other techniques are working if not there we adjust the technique and strategies. >> couldon you also go backwards to adjust your goals and actions? >> yes. >> initially the goal is to arrest someone after taking in information if you determine the person needed medical attention could you act on that? >> yes. schleicher: what would the action be? >> immediate goal and then givem medical attention. >> does that also relate to the authority to act? >> yes. >> looking at the policy and a duty to provide medical attention. >> yes.
>> how is this critical mdecision-making model imparted to police officers in the training program? >> wehi believe in the application of this program so i introduce the model with approval of course to the department. schleicher: you have been in a situation you have you to use force before you are in the field for a long time. do you have an assessment whether or not this model is useful in the field? >> i believe it is useful that's why we introduce this model] and introduced it to the officers. schleicher: is a practical? >> i believe it is practical. schleicher: how so? some of these situations involving police officers occur very quickly. >> that is true. >> is a possible for a police
officer to use this criticalti thinking model in the field when events are unfolding quickly? >> it is possible we use this limodel like almost memory. we talk about fast evolving situations. they do happen but a lot of the time we have the time to slow things down to reevaluate to go through this model. schleicher: you employ the training because you believe it work. >> i do believe it works, yes. schleicher: i have a further questions.
>> good morning sir. >> good morning. >> thank you for being with us today. have a few follow-up questions your role with the minneapolis police department is training officers involved in crisis intervention technique. >> that's correct. >> as well as critical decision-making model. >> that's correct.
nelson: you assisted that mpd developing policies and procedures with both a crisis intervention technique as well as critical decision-making policies. >> yes sir. nelson: you introduce these policies with the approval of the chief or the higher-ups. >> it has to be approved before we can deliver the training, yes. nelson: ultimately they have helped form some policies of the mpd. >> yes. but not a criticalot decision-making model but the crisis intervention ttechnique. >> that is in the policy yes. nelson: you have a long career as a police officer in the field and in the investigation unit. you have your own personal experiences to deal with people on the street. >> that's correct. nelson: other situations in your own experience you have to use force on someone and other people observing the use of force to likely you are doing? >> yes sir. nelson: in fact you would
describe sometimes the public doesn't understand that police actions can look really bad.ct >> that's correct. they still may be lawful even if they look bad. >> yes sir. nelson: the whole goal of the crisis intervention technique policies not only to deal with the suspect but other people who may be watching. >> yes sir. nelson: as citizensre or bystanders start to watch the police are doing you would agree that that could potentially become a crisis for those observers. >> potentially, yes you train them how to deal with those situations. look at the critical decision model that is what you were
describe as a rapid, very dynamic model. >> yes or. >> not just focusing on one particular thing but assessing many many things that are happening in that context. >> yes sir. >> it could be the interactions you are having with citizen observers. >> yes in the training you provide, there are materials the department maintains. >> correct. nelson: i will ask the court to display to the witness what has been marked as exhibit 122
do you recognize this to be training materials prepared by mpd crisis intervention team? >> yes or - - sir. nelson: this is the training material of the crisis intervention team presented to the officers in the 40 hour training this is the training that you received. >>. nelson: this is something you created to train mpd officers. recent modele01 than the 2018 model? >> the program is re-created to target the cadet in the academy. it is separate than what chauvin were doing. >> somece of the information is applicable to all police
officers trained in crisis intervention as well as de-escalation. >> yes. nelson: officers are trained to look for potential signs of aggression from suspects or observers. >> yes sir. >> what are potential signs of aggression that officers are trained to watch four? >> you could stand tall the agitations and bystanders and then going in the intensity these are be behaviors that officers are trained to watch for either the suspect. >> yes. your honor.
look at. >> now, the role in the minneapolis police department, do you train both cadets, recruits as well was veteran officers? >> yes i do. nelson: can you describe theit difference between the training a cadet would receive versus a veteran officer? >> this would be given to the recruits and officers who have gone through the associations training on crisisro of de-escalation. we give them training and introduce all the o topics and you go through different topics part of crisis training.en nelson: so the information that a veteran officer would receive in a 40 ever training is. >> yes. are you talking about recruit training or the veteran officer? >> the veteran officers. >> the veteran officers --
would be inclusive of what to look for in terms of crisis? >> yes. nelson: you train officers on the policy about crisis intervention. >> yes. nelson: you train them what to es person is in crisis. >> veteran officer? are you referring to the 40 hour training? >> i do not do 40 hour training for the veteran officer. nelson: see you don't know any information that the veteran training officer would receive. >> i know some of that but not the entire curriculum. nelson: you trained veteran ekofficers yourself. >> i do. nelson: the refresher type course odel, right? >> yes.
>> and the critical decision making model is not limited to or focused on simply the suspect, correct? >> [inaudible] >> [inaudible] >> i'm sorry? >> -- answering the objection is overruled, so you can answer. >> okay. could you repeat that, sir? >> sure. i need to remember my question. [laughter] the critical decision making policy that you train veteran officers on would be inclusive of people other than just the suspect, is that correct? >> there is no policy on the critical decision making model, only on the crisis policy. >> the critical decision >> yes. nelson: do you discuss with officers the policy of crisis intervention? >> you discuss with officers the signs to look for in terms of suspects and individuals you are observing? >> especially the suspects. nelson: you would agree that has the critical decision-making model. it is not limited to were focused on the subject. l,>> objection is overruled
>> correct. >> what to do when a citizen bystander starts filming you. >> that's correct, yes, sir. >> how to try to interpret whether citizens pose a threat or a risk, right? >> right. >> how to -- you would consider your own interactions also with the suspect themselves, correct? >> that's correct. >> and you describe this critical decision making model as being a very dynamic, ever-changing thing based upon information that comes to the officer in realtime, right?
>> that's correct. yes, sir. >> and so an officer awe may consider -- who has used force may move backwards in the policy but may have to jump somewhere else in the policy because new information comes. or the model. >> yes, sir. >> and so it is a constantly involving process where an officer is entrusted to make decisions based on all of the information that he or she perceives, correct? >> that's correct. yes, sir. >> right. and that also would include training, right? their training. >> yes, sir. >> and other things that may not be apparent to a citizen. >> yes, sir. >> tactical decision making, for example. >> yes, sir. >> knowing that medical help was on the way, right? >> yes, sir. >> making decisions about officer safety, right?
>> yes, sir. >> so all of these thing -- it's not just one small thing that you're focused only on the subject that you're arresting. you're taking in a lot of information and processing it all kind of simultaneously through this critical decision making model, agreed? >> that's agreed. yes, sir. >> all right. and so in terms of -- and i'll take this down for now, but in terms of the information that you advise or talk to officers, veteran officers about, how to recognize the signs of someone in crisis, right? >> yes, sir. >> and the minneapolis police department policy on crisis intervention has a pretty specific definition of what do you wants a crisis, right? >> yes, sir. -- what do you wants a crisis. >> yes, sir. >> it's not limited to someone
who may have a mental health problem, right in. >> yes, sir. >> it could include people who are using controlled substances? >> yes, sir. >> it could include people who are simply experiencing some event that is overwhelming them, right? >> yes, sir. >> and that may be losing a job or getting a divorce, but it could be what that person is observing at the time, agreed? >> yes, sir. >> and so the crisis intervention policy actually defines crisis as having a trajectory, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and that that trajectory can increase in its severity over time. >> yes, sir. >> and that's why it becomes important for an officer to create taoism and distance, right -- time and distance, right in. >> yes, sir. >> and that's why it's important for an officer to create time and distance. >> that is an important part
of the de-escalation process. >> yes sir. >> would you agree you train police officers as the intensity of crisis increases , the risk or threat to the officer grows greater? >> i don't train it specifically like that. intensity by training increases, then you have the time and the distance we try to bring it down. >> what i am talking about, my question is this. if a person is in crisis and the intensity of their own personal crisis grows, you
train officers as they get more intense, the risk to the officer or others is greater. >> yes sir. >> in fact officers are trained to respond to that in a variety of ways. >> yes sir. >> some of the techniques mpd trains veterans and recruits would be to have a confidence about them. >> confidence about them? yes. >> a officer should try to appear confident in his or her actions. >> yes sir. >> they should also try to stay calm. >> yes. >> meeting space. >> yes. >> speak slowly and softly. >> yes sir.
>> avoid staring or i contact. >> yes sir. >> ultimately when a police officer is dealing with any situation they could be dealing with any number of people in crisis. the subject or the arrestee could be in crisis. people who are watching could be in crisis. >> yes sir. >> another officer could be in crisis. >> yes sir. >> and officer has to take all of that in and do the assessment to make the determination what his or her next steps would be. >> yes or. >> the observations of the officer in that situation come
i thank you described under direct examination, you described in officer would also take into and apply to the critical decision-making model, his or her own sensory perception. >> yes sir. so feeling the suspect be tents on - - tends or loose what they hear comes into play. sir.s >> if they hear people threatening them or threatening violence, that goes into the critical decision-making model as well. >> yes sir. >> often times the scene of the arrested individual is very tense. >> yes sir i have no further
to the broader force concepts that defense counsel was questioning, all of these things must be taken into account when deciding the next step. >> yes sir. >> the officer always has to keep in mind their authority to act. that's one of the parts of the model. >> yes sir. >> defensed counsel asked if the officer should just focus on oneld small thing. i would like you to make a comment to differentiate a a big thing.nd because you would agree that something is amp big thing would be more important than a small thing. >> it depends what the big thing and small thing is. >> for example. if we are looking at assessing someone's medical condition for the purpose of rendering emergency aid with that be a big thing are small thing? >> that would be a big thing teeseven if that is contrasted
hwith a 17 -year-old filming it with a camera without be a big thing the filming are small thing. >> that is a a small thing if you take all the situations and circumstances into account with a big p thing and a small thing then your. authority to act. that is policy. policy would include the policy governing the use of force. it also includes the authority to act or the duty to render medicalnc laid. >> this includes not only contacting the ambulance that performing emergency aid like chest compressions and cpr. >> yes or nothing further.
>> sergeant yang in terms of the critical decision-making model, again you are analyzing all of these things, medical laid from citizens or observers, people are recording. what you see. what you feel. it is all premised on whether it is safe and feasible to do something. correct? >> yes sir. >> nothing further. >> is that your water quick. >> next witness please.
>> what you do for the city of annapolis - - minneapolis quick. >> i'm a lieutenant currently on medical leave. >> how long have you been mpd? >> 1986. >> i would like you to tell the jury about yourself. share your educational background. >> for your degree university of north dakota, justice. i graduated 95. >>y, after you graduated from the university, did you get a enforcement right away or go elsewhere? >> i was hired in 1996 in join police academy. >> describe your academy experience. >> we did a combination of l police academy along with college courses to qualify for minnesota posttest. >> did you pass the posttest? >> yes. >> after you completed theca
course work with the academy digital field training program? >> yes. >> how long we were not program? >> it was four months at that time. >> then you received your first assignment as a placed officer? >> yes. >> please tell the jury your first assignment and your duties. >> patrol officer assigned to the third precinct southeast minneapolis duties are patrolling the streets and answering 911 calls. >> how long did you serve as a patrol officer third precinct? >> initially a couple of years then the communitylo response team. >> i have heard that called the crt. what does that do? >> we take responses of the community prostitution, drug dealing our gang activity.
>> how long for you with the crt team? >> three years. >> the assignment after? >> to the patrol unit downtown at the time. >> the mounted patrol unit. >> we patrol on horseback during busy times in minneapolis. we focused on bar closings downtown minneapolis be lack how long did you do that? >> full-time a year and a half then patrol downtown in the precinct. >> how long we got the middle watch assignment? >> until 2006 then i was promoted to sergeant. >> in order to be promoted for sergeant did you take an exam? >> yes, sir. it's a self-service examine nation with y a.
>> then i went to the robbery unit downtown at city hall. from their i eventually ended up back downtown on patrol asd a supervisor. >> how long did that take? >> now we're at about 2008. >> after that? >> i was there a couple of years of my back to mounted patrol is a sergeant in charge of the unit through 2009. i went back to the street a year and a half then the minneapolis police department gang enforcement team is a sergeant. then from there i investigated gain crimes. after that assignment on the north side for a year and a half and then back downtown for the community response team downtown 2017 i took the
exam for the tenant and past and is a lieutenant 2017. >> where we you assigned is a lieutenant? bank after promoted transferred to the division and use of force and training. >> talk about your background. the minneapolis police department policy regarding use of force? >> yes, sir. trained for several years for that. >> that was a part of your academy training? >> partially. you get to be familiar with the use of force at the academy. >> and then after you left the academy, did you have to take refresher courses which would have included use of force training every year? >> yes, sir. >> in order to maintain your post license. >> that's correct, sir. >> have you had training beyond that, beyond what was presented at the academy and your yearly certification? >> yes, sir. >> could you please describe it?
>> yes. i became a part-time use of force instructor in about 2010, and i maintained that part-time status as a use of force instructor up until i was promoted to lieutenant where i went to the training unit full time. >> what did you have to do to become qualified to be a use of force instructor? >> went through different courses designed to train us up on use of force. i also started training brazilian jiu-jitsu for the department as part of our ground defense initiative, several other classes and different academies. >> and i'd like to maybe qualify a few terms, if we may. we've talked about use of force and use of force training. we also hear the term defensive tactics. can you differentiate between the two? >> i think they're interchangeable. i think use of force is probably the more appropriate term, but i think defensive tactics has been
more of a term that's been used longer so people tend to refer to use of force as defensive tactic instructors. >> would a defensive tactics, in terms of defensive tactics instruction, include more hands-on type instruction? you mentioned brazilian jewish jiu-jitsu, for example. >> yes, sir. >> were you interested in brazilian jiu-jitsu before becoming a police officer? how did that go? >> no, sir. i was in martial arts through college, and then i got interested in it from some of the other use of force instructors kind of recruited me to do that and really fell in love with the art form and really what its implications and uses are for law enforcement specifically. >> will you please just provide a very high-level overview of what brazilian jiu-jitsu is? some of the principles? >> yes, sir. it's a form of martial arts that really focuses on leverage and body control, de-emphasizes
strikes. true brazilian jiu-jitsu there's no punching or kicking, it's using your body weight. kind of like wrestling. joint lock manipulation, neck restraints, things that, you know, pain compliance as well as physical body controlling to get people to comply. >> so you use that phrase pain compliance. what, what is that? >> pain compliance is using a technique that causes a person you're using it against to have pain so they comply to your, whatever it is you're asking them to do. >> so if we're using an example maybe from childhood, you're familiar with the game mercy? >> yes, sir. >> okay. where you lock fingers, twist down and somebody -- is it similar to that? >> yes, sir. >> all right.
although brazilian jiu-jitsu is not the only defensive tactic that officers at mpd are trained on, is it? >> no, sir. >> it's just one of a variety of different tools that can be in place to deploy force, is that right? >> that's correct. >> for the purpose of enforcing a law, correct? >> that's correct. >> then as a use of force instructor after you became certified, did you have to become knowledgeable if all of the -- in all of the relevant policies and procedures, the 5-300 series? >> yes, sir. >> as well as state law governing the use of force which is largely integrated into minneapolis departmental policies, is that right in. >> yes, sir. >> and you indicated that you were the lieutenant, you were a lieutenant over in the training center, is that right? >> training division, sir. >> training division. please describe your role then as a lieutenant in the training
division. >> yes, sir. i was in charge of use of force. i was also in charge of our patrol officer section of training as well as the police range, and i was in charge of all of our continuing education to make sure that our officers are fulfilling their postman kates to maintain their license to be a police officer. >> and as part of that, to make sure you're properly reporting to the post board, you keep records, sign-in sheets of particular officers having completed training, right? >> that's correct. >> and those training hours are collected and reported into the work force director program? >> yes, sir. >> so you have an accurate record of who has been trained in what, is that right in. >> yes, sir. >> and is it -- when you're the lieutenant of the training division in use of force, are you coordinating preservice and in-service training? >> yes, sir. the preservice side would be use of force, the range and patrol operations. the in-service side is what we
consider to be the post mandate, we have to keep up with that. >> as a lieutenant, you're in charge of, you know, you're in a position of rank over the sergeants, is that right? >> that's correct. >> and those are usually the level, maybe the trainers would largely be at the sergeant level, is that right? >> mainly officers with some sergeants overseeing. >> as the lieutenant and the person in charge of this training, are you familiar with the curriculum that is imparted upon both preservice and in-service trainings? >> yes, sir. >> you helped develop the curriculum. >> yes, sir. >> and you approved the curriculum. >> yes, sir. >> the curriculum could include, well, does include a general with booklet that's put together by the defensive tactics instructors, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and that book leapt contains the general -- booklet contains the general concepts for use of force that are imparted on
preservice trainees and in-service trainees, is that right? >> that's correct. >> if i could show exhibit 126 just to the witness? right. showing you it's been marked for identifies as exhibit 126 -- identification, it's labeled minneapolis police department use of force manual academics and techniques produced by the mpd defensive tactics team. are you familiar with this document and predecessor documents? >> yes, sir. >> does this document contain sort of the general curriculum and knowledge that's imparted upon mpd preservice and in-service trainees? >> yes, sir. >> so offering 126. >> no objection. >> 126 is received. >> and we won't publish that at this point. and you also participate in and i approve various classroom
powerpoint training sessions that are imparted upon both preservice and in-service trainees. >> yes, sirment -- yes, sir. >> and at this time as to the witness, i would like to show what's been marked for identification as exhibit 119. exhibit 119 is a slide deck that's labeled 2018 defensive tactics in-service. is that right? >> yes, sir. >> if you can show the witness the second page. do you see your name on the slide deck listed at the top of the instructors? >> yes, sir. >> you familiar with the contents of this particular powerpoint presentation or slide deck? >> yes, sir. >> did you help create it? >> yes, sir. >> and you approved its use during the training, is that right in. >> that's correct. >> and it's listed as fall of 2018, so this is what would have
been provided for in-service training, so it experienced performing officers during this 2018 session, correct? >> that's correct. >> and is the training that's provided, you have quite a few minneapolis police officers who have to go through the training, right? >> yes, sir. >> so they're not all taking it at the same time. >> that's correct. >> but if someone is, has completed the fall of 2018 in-service defense thive tactics trainings, does that mean they saw this slide deck? >> yes, sir. >> i'll offer exhibit 119. >> no objection. >> 119 is received. >> then we talked about training records as well and sign-in sheets, so i'd like to show the witness exhibit 124. exhibit 124 is labeled 2018
annual in-service training program, group b, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and i see your name at the top as one of the instructors, is that right? >> that's correct. >> and this is a sign-in sheet that would show different officers who would sign in having taken the training? >> that's correct. >> turn to page 2. do you see the name derek chauvin on this training roster? >> yes, sir. >> you familiar with that name, derek chauvin? >> yes, sir. >> chauvin, i'm sorry. derek chauvin. do you, would you recognize mr. chauvin if you saw him in the courtroom today? >> yes, sir. >> do you see him today? >> i do, sir. >> would you please point to him and describe what he's wearing? >> yes, sir. he's got a dark blue tie, light blue shirt and a gray jacket. >> may the record reflect the
witness has identified the defendant. >> [inaudible] >> go back to page 1. and at this time, i will offer exhibit 124. >> [inaudible] >> 124 is received. >> permission to publish 124. if you could highlight the instructor block and title. all right. again, you see that this is the 2018, this training was provided on october 1, 2018, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and you are listed as one of the trainers, correct? >> that's correct. >> and if you could go to page 2. and highlight, please.
and there you can see the training was attended by the defendant, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> how many times do you think you've provided training like what we saw in the exhibit to various officers over the years? >> hundreds of times, sir. >> and did, is this a slide deck that you identified as being the 2018 version really consistent with prior versions of the use of force training you've provided? >> the documentation, sir? >> yes. >> yes. >> so when you do use of force training, there are generally two components, right? there's a classroom component, and then there would be more of the tactical component, practical exercises, is that right? >> that's correct. >> and what we saw on the exhibit was the classroom
component. >> i believe so. >> okay. well, what i'd like to do now is publish exhibit 119. and just like you've done hundreds of times before, i'm going to have you explain some of the selected slides to the jury, all right? >> yes, sir. >> please turn to page 2. 119. and is, again, you can see your name listed on this in-service training as one of the instructors, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and turn to page 4. page 4 of the slide deck contains a policy reference, is that right? >> yes, sir, it does. >> and you testified that you're familiar with the policy and the use of force policies. one of the objectives is training is to impart the
policies, teach those policies to the attending officers. >> yes, sir. >> [inaudible] >> and so this is from the minnesota -- i'm, the minneapolis policy manual 5-301. could you please describe to the jury what this slide is intended to convey? >> yes, sir. there's, looks like there's three bullet points. first one is sanctity of life and the protection of the public. that is the cornerstone of our use of force policy, is the sanctity of life and the protection of the public. also clear and consistent force policies. we like our policies to be easily understood. and then the use of force standard to fall under the fourth amendment reasonableness standard. >> since we're talking about use of force, i'd like to turn the page 7 of the exhibit. 119. when we talk about use of force, explain to the jury what is
force. >> it's listed on this slide here. intentional police contact involving any weapon, substance, vehicle, equipment, tool, device or animal that inflicts pain or injury to another, physical strikes to the body, physical contact to the body that inflicts pain or injury while restraint or circumstance likely to produce injury. >> so you train officers that restraint is a form of force, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and when applying force or applying restraint, the restraints have to be reasonable, correct? >> correct. >> and it has to be reasonable at the time it starts and the time it stops? >> correct. >> you're familiar with the concept of proportionality. >> yes, sir. >> if you could turn to the exhibit page 8.
can you discuss proportionality to trainees, you use this exhibit, is that right this. >> yes, sir. >> and in general, without using the slide for a moment, just explain to the jury as you would a group of trainees what is proportional force? >> well, you want to use the least amount of force necessary to meet your objectives, to control. and if those lower use of force do not work, would not work, you can increase your level of force against that person. >> and if they do not work, would not work or unsafe to try it, maybe you've used that phrase a time or two. >> yes, sir. >> is that a phrase you've used in pretty much every training that you've given on use of force? >> when there's a powerpoint of use of force, we discuss proportionality regularly. >> okay. and you said you want to use the least amount of force that's necessary? >> yes, sir. >> why is that? >> because if you can use the
least amount, a lower level of force to meet your objectives, it's safer and better for everybody involved. >> and when we talk about proportionality, proportional to what? >> i'd say the level of resistance you're getting. >> and the level of resistance would be dependent upon who? >> the subject that you're using force upon. >> the specific subject. >> yes, sir. >> all right. at this time i'll ask to publish exhibit 110. this is an item that's already been received into evidence. do you recognize exhibit 110? >> yes, sir. >> what is that? >> it's technically called the defense and control response training guide, but a lot of people refer to this as the use of force continuum. >> okay. and as we were discussing the concept of proportionality, you talked about the subject's
behavior, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> subject behavior's over here on the left-hand side, correct? >> that's correct. >> and the subject behavior can vary from, i guess, nothing to passive resistance all the way to active aggression, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and then in terms of proportionality, there's various tools that are available to a law enforcement officer based on the subject's behavior, correct? >> that is correct. >> and some of these tools, if we can just take an example with active aggression, one response could be what? >> up to and including deadly force. >> but then for lower levels of subjecting activity such as passive resistance, right? that could include things like presence and verbalization. >> that's correct. >> and is this something that you use with law enforcement officers you train to graphically represent the concept of proportionality? >> i'm not sure if we have used
this specific proportionality course, but we have used this in the past to describe levels of resistance increase, officers' response also increases. >> and similarly, as levels of resistance decrease, what should the officer do? >> he should deescalate use of force as well. >> and that's actually listed on this response and control guide, isn't it? >> correct. >> if you would clear that, your honor. and you'd indicated that you train offices that they should -- officers that they should use the least amount of force that is available or that's reasonable under the circumstances, is that right? >> to meet the objectives, yes. >> and explain that. >> so you want to use the least amount of force to try to control somebody. might be a low-level force, and if you're trying to get them in
handcuffs and they're fighting, you want to use the lowest level of force possible in order to meet those objectives. >> and lower levels of force, fair to say when you're using force, people can get hurt. >> yes, sir. >> the subject can get hurt, the officer can get hurt. >> yes, sir. >> is that one of the reasons why it's better to use a lesser amount of force? >> yes, sir. >> and another reason is that it's required, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> if you could go back to exhibit 119 and publish page 12? and you train this to officers, back to your training materials, is that right? >> yes. >> the minnesota statutes provide integrated mpd policy the concept of minimum restraints, is that right? >> that's correct. >> and i'd ask you if you could please highlight the first section. i'm sorry, the second section.
all right. what is the policy and the statute provide regarding the amount of restraints that can be used on an arrested subject? >> the first line talks about no more strength than necessary for the arrest and detention. >> what does that mean in -- mean? >> it means the minimum amount of force that you need to accomplish the objective of arresting a detainee. [inaudible] >> now, you're familiar with the circumstances that bring you here today, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and i need to show you a
photo that's been is received into evidence as exhibit 17. i'd like to publish that. all right. do you see exhibit 17 and you see the defendant on top of a subject that you know to be george floyd, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> is this a use of force? >> yes, sir. >> if you could take that down, please. i want you to discuss in terms of using force and using it safely, what you teach your trainees about sort of frailty of the human body. it's important to be careful with people, is that right? >> oh, yes. very, very important to be careful. >> is there some parts of the body that are more prone to injury than others, correct? >> that's correct. >> you train on that, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> if we could display exhibit
119, page 49. now, this is from strength training, is that right? >> that's correct. >> but is it generally helpful in describing what some of the more sensitive parts of the human body are as you train minneapolis police officers? >> related to strikes? yes. >> could it be related to other types of restraint as well? >> i think you could stretch that some. i don't exactly -- what's the question exactly again? i'm sorry. >> is it fair to say that the areas marked in red, the red zones, are more prone to injury than other parts of the body that could be serious? >> yes. >> for example, the neck. >> yes. >> and the head. >> correct. >> and the sternum of the chest, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and this wouldn't just pertain to strikes, it could
also pertain to pressure, couldn't it? >> uh, yes. >> is that something you probably knew before you even did any use of force training? >> yes, sir. >> now, i'd like you to then discuss with the jury the concept of neck restraints. and if we could publish page 52 of the exhibit. and looking at the time period that you were doing this training, neck restraints were authorized by mpd policy, correct? >> yes, sir. >> can you please describe the training that you provided to minneapolis police officers regarding the use of neck restraints? >> yes, sir. we go over the techniques, definitions of neck restraints, and we'd go through different reps of the neck restraint to get the officers comfortable in
doing it. >> could you just give the jury an overview of what a neck restraint is? >> yes, sir. so neck restraint is constricting the sides of a person's neck, and they refer to it as a vascular neck restraint. so you're slowing the blood flow to and from the brain with the intent to gain control of a subject. >> and there are two different types of neck restraints in the mpd policy, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> and those are what? >> the two levels are conscious neck restraint, so that means you grab somebody up and they're still conscious and you can gain compliance with many people with that. and then there's unconscious, and that's applying pressure until the person, when they're noncompliant, they can become unconscious and, therefore, compliant. >> how does one actually apply a neck restraint? >> we teach a couple of different techniques, but the basic idea is you use your elbow as a landmark, and you place your arm across, so your bicep
would be on one side of the neck, and your arm, forearm would be on the other side of the neck. and then there's a couple of different hand placements, but you apply pressure on both sides of the neck to gain compliance. >> and you were demonstrating, were you using -- you were using your arm to do that. >> that is correct. >> and it could also be done with the leg? >> it can be done with the leg. >> does mpd train how to do it with the leg? >> we may show the younger officers in the acad what that likes like, but we don't train. smarts my knowledge, we never have. >> how would a trained neck restraint work? i'm sorry, how would a trained leg restraint work? >> people of who have watched mma, they call it the triangle choke. i use that term choke loosely, that's just what it's called. but that that's when you place your leg over somebody's back and you trap their arm so the
person ends up having one arm in, and their arm causes pressure on one side, and the leg causes pressure on the second, and you can actually render somebody unconscious if you hold that long enough. >> what part of the leg? >> usually it's the inner thigh. >> inner thigh. so in this scenario, using a leg to do a neck restraint would the knee sort of replace the elbow in terms of replacement? how would you describe it? >> your thigh would be across the side of minute's neck, your leg across the back, and you protect the airway really with the space that's created with their arm being pinned in there. >> if you could please display the next page, page 53. use of neck restraints, can you describe -- using those concepts of proportionality when it's authorized to use a neck
restraint, the two different varieties. >> yes, sirment on subjects who are actively aggressive, which means assaultive, they're actively resisting and other techniques haven't worked, you can use them. and then you can't use against subjects who are passively resistant. >> and if you could go to the next slide, page 54. and after a neck restraint is applied, there are certain guidelines that you train that have to be followed, is that right? >> that's correct. >> for the care of the individual upon whom the neck restraint was applied. >> yes, sir. >> and if we could publish exhibit 110 again and bringing this specific topic back to the concept of proportionty -- could you enlarge this? do you have one of those stylus
es up there? >> yes, i do. >> you can touch the screen and make a mark here. unconscious neck restraint. an unconscious neck restraint is when the person is actually rendered unconscious, correct? >> that's correct. >> and intentionally so. >> yes, sir. >> could you please underline unconscious neck restraint as you see it in this response -- [inaudible] >> yes, sir. >> and what subject activity, what level of subject activity would be required to use an unconscious neck restraint? >> according to this chart, it's in the red area, so it would be active aggression. >> okay. and do you agree with that in. >> yes. i think the last slide we talked about active reis sis dance if other techniques didn't work, but definitely active aggression. >> if we looked, you could also find a conscious neck restraint the, and that's the neck restraint that's used for the purpose of control, correct?
>> correct. >> could you underline where that is in this force continuum, exhibit 110. and so the conscious neck restraint is authorized in circumstances where there's, in fact, active resistance, is that right in. >> yes, sir. >> so then if there was something like passive resistance, the conscious -- north the conscious neck restraint nor the unconscious neck restraint would not be authorized, is that right. >> >> would not be authorized? >> that is correct. >> that's correct. >> for some forms of active resistance, would it? >> that's correct. >> and if the subject is offering no resistance, obviously, then no neck restraint would be authorized. >> that's correct. >> or any restraint. >> or any -- >> or any restraint if there's no -- >> generally, no.
>> in addition to the classroom training, you actually teach officers, show them physically how to do these sort of neck restraints? >> yes, sir. >> at this time i'd like to republish exhibit 17. sir, is this an mpd-trained neck restraint? >> no, sir. >> has it ever been? >> not to my -- neck restraint? no, sir. >> is this the an mpd-authorized restraint technique? >> knee on the neck would be something that does happen in use of force, unauthorized. >> and under what circumstances would that be authorized? how long can you do that? >> i don't know if there's a time frame. it would depend on the circumstances at the time. >> which would include what? >> the type of resistance you're
getting from the subject you're putting the knee on. >> and so if there was, say for example, the subject was under control and handcuffed, would this be authorized? >> i would say no. >> you can take that down, please. >> continuing in this defensive tactics presentation, if you could go back to exhibit 119, page 56. you also teach officers the proper handcuffing techniques, is that right? >> yes, sir. >> and according to the handcuffing techniques, the handcuffs are to be handcuffed behind the back, and the handcuff is to be double locked. >> [inaudible] >> sure.