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tv   Day 7 of Trial for Derek Chauvin Accused in Death of George Floyd  CSPAN  April 7, 2021 8:00am-9:01am EDT

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interviews with authors and historians new episodes are available every tuesday. this week on the inaugural episode of book notes plus find out which u.s. presidents were caught in sex scandals author eleanor joins us to share those stories from her book sex with presidents. book notes plus, a new weekly podcast from c-span, subscribe if you get your podcast and get information about all of the c-span podcasts the podcasts. ... >> more now from the tribe of derek chauvin. in this portion the prosecution and his defense attorney
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question the medical support coordinator from the minneapolis police department. >> state may call its next witness. >> thank you, your honor. the state calls nicole mckenzie. >> raise your right in. do you swear or affirm under
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perjury repeatedly the testimony you're about to give a be the truth and nothing but the truth? >> yes, your honor. >> and if you feel comfortable doing so we prefer you take your mask off. and before you begin, actually -- [inaudible] if you could begin by giving as your full name. >> nicole mckenzie n-i-c-o-l-e, m-a-c-k-e-n-z-i-e. >> how are you employed? >> i by minneapolis police department. >> how long have you been applied with the place apart? >> about secure. >> what is your current role? >> i am a police officer. >> do you have a specific duty
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assignment? >> i do. i am the medical support coordinator for the department. >> now if we talk about that role i would like you to share a little bit about yourself with the jury. how long have you been a police officer were in law enforcement? >> i have been law-enforcement for about six years. that'll time with the minneapolis police department. >> do you have a career prior to going into law-enforcement? >> i did. i worked in human resource. >> what is your educational background? >> i have an associates degree in human resources. i have a bachelors degree in business. i am in emt. i i also have my law-enforcement certificates and i'm also emr instructor. >> you worked in human resources, , that was your original plan? >> correct. >> how long have you wanted to be a police officer. >> actually something i've always wanted to do. i justng kind of talked myself t of it for one way or another but eventually found my way back. >> can you please tell the jury
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how you entered law-enforcement as you go to the academy? >> i did yes. i came in as a cadet which means the department sponsors educational components to make you eligible for the post-exam in the state of minnesota. >> how long of the program was at? >> i think it was about nine months total. class classroom portion of the academy what did you go through field training? >> i did. >> how long was that? >> at that time was about five and a half, six months. >> as an officer with minneapolis police department, are you familiar with some of the officers who also work in the department? >> yes. >> are you familiar with the name derek chauvin? how are you familiar with that name? >> i was with him while on a po
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for one day, also he attended my training at the department. >> would you recognize him, you see him in the courtroom? describe what he is wearing. >> he's in a light gray suit. >> may the record reflect witness identified the defendant. >> it will. >> you indicated your the medical support coordinator, is that right? >> yes. >> please describe the jury what that role entails? >> there are some different components, primarily for education. the in-service, continuing policy for officers and i am also on the program we have.
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>> what is the narcan program? >> the training administration pharmaceutical for overdoses. >> narcan, is that something officers have available to them. >> yes matthew provides specific training regarding use of narcan? >> i do. >> also, you provide medical training both at the academy and in-service? >> correct. >> are you familiar with the requirements from department and post requirements how often officers are supposed to train in medical procedures? >> yes, with the board, when you apply for the examination, you do have to have emr revocation, emergency medical responder, i can be terribly specific but the minneapolis police department,
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we give education every year on medical. >> he said it doesn't require anything more specific, can you explain that? >> with educational requirements for the continuing, as long as you the minimum number of hours, there are certain topics they require of you to complete about other ones with the minneapolis police department, we go above and beyond what's required so that's where we at in the training to make you do that every year? >> we do. >> are police officers required to have specific cpr card? >> not a card, you're not required to have that beyond your initial certification. >> when you're initially, you are? >> correct, it's required be eligible to take post exam. >> some officers will continue
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to pay the cpr card? >> correct. >> required to obtain it? it's about a four hour class, there is a written test skills examination test. >> what does it cover? >> it includes adult cpr and aed as well as. >> i'd like to display to the witness, not to the jury, exhibit 277 for identification. take a look at what's marked as exhibit 277, does that appear to be american bar association cpr card? >> correct. >> is that the tarp of card you administer? >> yes. >> while it's not required some officers continue with them about the cards are maintained in the record of the minneapolis police department? >> if they have taken a full force to the minneapolis police
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department, we would not be a cardholder. >> exhibit 278, that appears to be a cpr card of a different year? >> correct. >> exhibit 277 to 78. >> 277 to 78. >> published exhibit 277 and highlight that portion. does this appear to be a cpr aed card issued to derek chauvin? march 2012 through march 2014? >> correct. >> if we could slay exhibit 278. cpr card issued to the defendant january 14 --
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>> correct. [background noises] when you provide training, medical training to law enforcement officers, does that training get reported into the workforce system to report? >> yes. >> when did you start personally delivering the training? >> i've been part-time instructor since 2017 and assumed full-time january 2020. >> how many times you think you provide this training to law enforcement officers? >> specifically? >> yes. >> i would say 20 to 30
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sessions. >> if you could use a powerpoint to do your medical presentation every year? >> we do. >> if i could show you exhibit 111 just to the witness, not the jury, exhibit 111, do you recognize what appears to be the first part? >> yes. >> if we could turn to the second page of 111, does not appear -- mpd cpr? >> correct. >> have you personally delivered this slide deck before? >> i have. >> approximately how many times? >> this was in-service 2019 and bike estimation, this was probably over the course of maybe 12 sessions or so, 12 or 15 and i am responsible for about a third of them. >> if they intend any of your sessions? >> i'm not sure. >> you are provided training for
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everyone consistently took in-service in 2019? >> correct. iran one of those stations so theoretically, he would have come through my skills station at some time. >> at this time, you can take this down, i'm going to offer exhibit 111. >> 111 is received. >> in general terms, do you provide the jury an overview of specific medical training you provide to law enforcement officers on an annual basis. >> for in-service specifically? >> in-service, yes. >> we do offer a wide variety, depending on how many training sessions will be available but at minimum, every year we touch on cpr and 80 -- 80 and we are also going over a class on narcan, that is minimum.
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if we have more training spots available, we can add in more classes. >> are you aware whether minneapolis police department has a specific policy regarding rendering of emergency aid? >> we do. >> could you provide the jury high-level overview of what the policy requires? >> high-level summary of first aid policy is going to be requesting ems resources to anybody who needs it or request it and rendering first aid consistent with your training received. >> does the policy allow you to do one or the other, can you just call for ambulance and not to emergency medical procedures? >> it depends on the situation specifically, if there was no need for immediate first aid, maybe a small cut or operation, it would be appropriate to just wait but if it is a critical
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situation, you have to do both. >> i'd like you to walk us through specific training you provide, exhibit 111. published exhibit 111, starting on page six. let's go back to page one. page one -- explain. >> this is an image of the clip taken from the classic movie dumb and dumber and a video clip we show at the beginning of training, more or less a class. >> i'd like to cover this portion, page six and review the portion of the slide deck.
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>> this training was primarily focused on cpr we did throw in pieces of information because we have time available to us, we briefly touched on other things taught, technical casualty care basically rendering aid for more traumatic injuries and provide an update on our narcan program as far as usage and things they've learned, initially and rolled out and the remainder of the time was focused on full cpr. >> if you could go to page 221 of exhibit 111. for the jury, would you describe using the slide, walk us through
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what specific training provide of the minneapolis police department, cpr. >> when we are seeing a medical situation going on about illness or injury, we have a pneumatically walk through to make sure we have the basics. you are with somebody we start with an acronym, adp you, that's the level of responsiveness. then we work through abc, airway breathing and circulation. >> i'd like you to go to the next page, 22. walk the jury through this assessment tool. >> certainly. when you determine the level of response, you kind of walk through your model to see where
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they land so if somebody is alert, that means as soon as i walked into the room, look at be, i determined that person is alert, i don't need to go any further. the role would be maybe going to somebody, try to get their attention, burglar stimuli. then respond to fatigue, which is pain. something like press against the fingernail, just looking for a response, something that somebody would pull away from. causing injury. se but just a little stimulus to see if they pull away from you or something and if they don't respond, you determine that person is unresponsive. >> i'd like to talk about the
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pain stimuli of breathing. it sounds like the assessment tool, what the training is doing, apply painful stimulus to see if they react, is that right? >> correct. >> is it possible to determine responsive without intentionally without inflicting pain for the purpose of checking stimuli? for example, observing whether the person continues to react in a painful stimulus? >> can you rephrase that? >> sure. >> if you came upon an individual who was injured and crying out or assessing pain as a result of the injury but sometime they stop being verbal and responding to the pain, could not be assigned of nonresponsive? >> correct. >> once you determine an individual is unresponsive, what
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you do? >> doctor the next acronym, abc. >> if you could return to page 21. >> airway breathing circulation? >> correct. >> go to page 23. describe to the jury what you train officers to do based on the slide in exhibit 111. >> after you determine there level of responsiveness, you first check their airway, just put them in the most ideal position where there airway can be exposed. >> what is the next step? >> pulling up the head slightly so whether it's a ted held, open
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up there airway. the next step is moved into checking for breathing if you don't keep the chest rise, just put your hand on the center of the chest to see if it moves up and down. >> what is the next step? >> circulation, check carotid pulse under the jaw. >> are there other places officers are trained they can used to check for a pulse? >> absolutely, your wrist, you are multiple points on your body to check but this is the most important. >> what are officers trained to do if they are unable to find a pulse? >> if you don't have a pulse, immediately start cpr. >> i want you to go back to the concept of checking for breathing, you indicated you can look for chest rising and falling, is that right?
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>> yes. >> you train officers as part of your training, you train officers if a person can talk means they can breathe? >> no. >> why not? >> there is the possibility somebody can be in respiratory distress and still verbalize. just because they are speaking doesn't mean they are breathing adequately. >> getting back to circulation, he indicated the officer cannot find a pulse, they are to start cpr. describe done to start cpr. >> if you haven't already contacted ems, do not immediately. then it's a matter of interlocking your fingers, center of the chest and push down about a third of the depth of the person at the rate of about one be a minute.
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>> is this something getting back to mpd policy, the officer is trained, required to do while waiting for the ambulance? not just. >> when is the officer supposed to stop cpr? >> when you relieve to somebody with higher level of training or maybe if there is obvious signs of life or if you're absolutely just physically exhausted from doing cpr. >> if you could display page 27 of the exhibit. officers are specifically trained on this, right? >> correct. >> if the subject becomes responsive or wakes up or someone else takes over as you stated, you physically can't do it anymore. >> correct. >> is this consistent with the training you provide every year
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to each law enforcement officer reports as having taken the training? >> yes background noise. [background noises] [background noises] >> i have nothing further. thank you. [background noises]
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[background noises] [background noises] [background noises] [background noises] [background noises]
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[background noises] [background noises] >> sorry about that, thank you your honor. [background noises] [background noises]
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>> sorry about that, ma'am. [background noises] i think i'm ready now. thank you for joining us today. a few follow-up questions, you been with the minneapolis police department about six years at this time? >> correct. >> you said your emt, as well? >> yes. >> as far as the minneapolis police department is concerned, there are officers trained essentially as first responders, correct? >> correct with the emr certification. >> emergency -- >> medical responder. >> swords a lower level of medical training. >> correct. >> you may go to a cpr class and then your first responder and then emt paramedic, correct? >> yes. >> so you experienced, did you work as an emt as well as --
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>> i did. >> you have experience both as a police officer as well as anti- >> correct. >> you testified part of your role now is running the medical program is to present officers with information as to multiple medical issues they've made, they may encounter. >> correct. >> is not limited to just first aid for first responders cpr. >> no, we teach wellness classes, nutrition, we have a wide variety of classes. >> and you have classes on topics including -- >> correct. >> you have topics including administration of narcan? >> correct. >> officers, all minneapolis lease officers permitted to carry narcan. >> yes. >> do all receive the training? >> yes. >> some medical topics in these
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education classes they may come up in our here or a half hour there in service? >> depends on the officer, he is. >> emr stuff is kind of a standalone class, there may be, it is a longer class? >> correct. that's basically your initial medical training you are required to get the certification. that's about 40 hours. >> then you have refresher classes on that stuff as well, correct? >> continuing on the same topic, the minneapolis police department doesn't require them to keep their emr notification. >> so the certification we saw mr. chauvin had expiring in 2016, i believe. >> cpr. >> are officers required to have
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cpr every two years after that? >> we do cpr classes on a rotating basis so every other year they go through it. >> i would like to talk to you about a couple of minneapolis policies if we could. [background noises] ...
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the policy is somewhat call qualified meaning that if as soon as reasonably practice, correct pretty. >> correct. >> so one of the things in a string between officers today was the administration first-aid is to consider other circumstances. >> correct, have to make sure that your sake before your able to render aid. >> right and being safe could not being safe could be coming from a number of factors correct printed environmental factors such as where you are located right pretty. >> yes printed. >> whether there is a lot of traffic correct. >> correct. >> were a lot of bystanders,
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correct and depending on their behavior. >> yes. >> so safety is important in fact minneapolis police, or the mts don't come to a scene until it's generally as court for pretty. >> generally, yes pretty. >> so often not uncommon for emcees to stage off-site until please call the scene coded for correct, being all clear come on in. a. >> yes printed. >> so in that situation if it's deemed unsafe, the mts do not come in at that point. >> correct. >> the other policy that we deal with here. >> there too any things open here.
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is the policy for the minneapolis police policy seven - 350, with you right now. >> yes. >> yes instances relative to the emergency medical response, the rate card to request ems as soon as practical, correct pretty. >> correct. >> maybe certain things can prevent an officer for calling in the ms, correct pretty. >> cup absolutely pretty. >> to both of the medical policies are contingent upon what is going on at the scene at the time. [inaudible]. >> in terms of exhibit 111 which is the cpr presentation that you have presented and turned to. [inaudible]. [inaudible].
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>> i'm going to turn to 21586, down at the bottom there there is a reference to breathing. what is that mean. it. >> it is something for somebody who was unresponsive in there and some sort of a threat. we see this quite often with opioid overdoses, medical emergencies surrounding what is happening. >> and can you could describe what exactly bacchanal breathing is. >> my name, it's kind of a bad term for it because is not effective breathing. this marlis kind of a near regular gasp for air. like it last ditch effort.
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>> and in person observing somebody going through egg milk breathing, it would be that they would be misinterpret that as actual breathing. it. >> yes, they could see this, that's what we say it is not effective. >> so an officer is dealing with someone who is experiencing egg and no breathing, could potentially be possible for an officer to misinterpret that echo breathing for effective breathing. >> yes. >> and in certain circumstances where there's a lot of noise or a lot of commotion that the more than likely that could happen. >> yes. >> you are showing the slide in terms of when we stop cpr and one of the reasons that you stop performing cpr because it is not safe, correct.
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>> correct pretty. >> i referring to the process of actually the environment or - >> it would be the environment. >> so it stands to reason that if the environment around you, he would determined to be not safe, you may not start it right away. >> that would be accurate a reasonable yes. >> you also testified use of mark m correct. >> i'm going to show you. [inaudible]. , you can see this training in front of you. is a training that you provide to minneapolis police officers. yes. and this would be administered for this is the program that the broader course on how to administer that's correct pretty. >> correct.
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>> and you recognize this is record you keep in the ordinary course of the business pretty. >> yes pretty. >> this mr. swisher. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. >> that was at 1041 and i would move to admit the time of 1041. >> 1041 is received.
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[inaudible]. >> permission to publish 1041. >> this is from the minneapolis police department and served in july 2018. >> correct pretty. >> and he had attended this program or is in-service in july through september of 2018, he would've received the training correct pretty. >> correct. >> in recent years fentanyl has become more of a concern for officers to be aware of. >> absolutely. >> ultimately between officers and the use of narcan to indicate or to contradict i should say, the effects of including fentanyl rated. >> correct.
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>> in europe experience as medical trainer and a police officer, have you experienced combinations of the drugs by individuals and have you heard this on the term pretty. >> yes pretty. >> and would you agree that that is generally accommodation of a stimulant of a methamphetamine antidepressant like printed all. >> yes. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. [inaudible].
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[inaudible]. >> can you describe to the jury what this is. >> is essentially combination of an upper and a downer rated. >> is a become common place in your experience. >> yes. >> is fentanyl has become more prominent, do you see that in legal forms such as patches or other pills that may be administered by hospital. do you see that on the streets. >> yes you'll see for all purposes, also for it is manufactured tran 19. >> he was going to the jury, whether in your experience using
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this fentanyl use on the rise. >> yes, absolutely. >> and i am just going to show you generally when you talk about somebody, you show it to the officers and his training. and when somebody is on the experiencing and opioid overdose, they may see this type of behavior is not correct. >> yes. >> somebody may fall asleep, great tyrant kind of out of it correct. >> yes. >> with this be consistent with what you would it's a generally on a opioid overdose. >> it could be. >> i'm using that they can be more responsive. >> yes. >> even though they have taken and opioid. >> correct. >> in terms of fentanyl, can you
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explain the slide. >> so this is what could be considered illegal does. larry know how dangerous heroin is and you can see the twice amount of that, could be deadly with the fentanyl and even more so with others. >> so fentanyl even a very small doses can be fatal, would that be accurate pretty i will rephrase the question. [inaudible]. [inaudible].
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[inaudible]. [inaudible]. [inaudible].
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[inaudible]. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. [inaudible].
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[inaudible]. [inaudible]. >> so these are the training materials that you presented to the minneapolis police officers relevant to the use of nor controls the princes and also narcan. in the performance of their duties, correct. >> correct. >> in terms of just again,
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general training you would already said that you discussed that officers in the contents of this correct. >> correct. >> can you provide them with training materials about what that means, correct. yes. and generally speaking, without reviewing the training materials can you describe what you training minneapolis police department about. >> nineteen it at his taught at the academy, one of a block of instructions and signs and symptoms of the best responses for handling it. it is a combination of motor education and psychosis, hypothermia, wide variety think you might see in person or really bizarre behavior in
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recognizing this is a medical condition, not necessarily a criminal matter. >> with that include discussion of controlled substances. in the context of delirium. >> yes, because that most of the people that are expressing something like you said, delirium, usually there illicit drugs. that would be a contributing factor. >> so as far as what you training minneapolis police officers relevant to the physical attributes of the person experiencing delirium. >> the person must be experiencing the hypothermia, accelerated body temperature and 70 taken off of their close, and a place not appropriate to take a few close, the winter something like that.
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and just based on their activity, their outbreak might be elevated in my to be insensitive to pain. >> how does it affect strength. >> because you don't really have that pain compliance, normally it would controls buddies behavior so if somebody somebody is experiencing this, they might have what we call superhuman strength. it might be able to lift things that they wouldn't normally be able to lift. they might be breaking things or have blood like substances that you need to be cautious of. >> thank you and in terms of and i will just pack up and talk a little bit more about the response to a medical emergency by ems based on your experience as a police officer and any empty. you talked about how sometimes
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ems will stage off-site until the scene is clear and safe, correct. >> correct. >> can you describe to the jury what this is pretty. >> is more like of an informal use for first responders that essentially means that the citizen going to be arriving, is a priority deed that person into the ambulance as soon as possibly get in route to the hospital as soon as possible. >> are the reasons why an empty or paramedic would choose to do that rather than administering first aid at the scene. >> yes. >> one of those reasons. [inaudible]. [inaudible]. >> by way of example, maybe somebody has not been addressed, obviously there thinking you can
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do that for the person prehospital, maybe that person will need immediate surgery. >> so there may be conditions of the individual that warrants that type of pick up and go. >> yes. >> what about people in the area, could that effect and emts decision to loading go. >> yes predict if you have a volatile crowd, it sounds unreasonable but bystanders do occasionally attack. so sometimes just being out of the situation some of the best ways to defuse it. >> have you ever had to perform an emergency services and just not even a hospital but just an excited crowded. as that in your experience, more or less difficult pretty. >> in critical difficult.
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because if you're trying to be hunched down on the patient that you need to render aid to come is very difficult to focus on patient while there's other things around you. if you do not feel safe around you, you have enough resources. it is very difficult to focus on the one thing in front of you. >> i can be destructive. >> absolutely. >> does make it difficult to assess the patient and make it more likely that you may miss signs that a patient is experiencing symptoms. >> yes. >> is of the distraction can actually harm the potential care of the patient. >> yes. >> i have no further questions. [inaudible].
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>> in the officers trainings, sometimes they have to provide emergency medical services in less than ideal conditions pretty yes. so the record emergency aid this practice in a classroom setting. so you are environment is fine. is that right pretty. >> yes. a. >> in terms of a crowded hospital, how would you define hostility. >> that the contingent of people around is that yelling and even verbally abusive to those who are trying to provide security. >> what health. >> maybe they try to interfere with the crime scene on patient. >> or they have to use a weapon or for a rocks and bottles or
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something like that could prevent somebody from providing emergency aid, is that right. >> yes. >> can the activities of a crowd, can the crowds of a group of onlookers excused a police officer the duty to render emergency medical aid to the subject needs it rated. >> only if they were physically given themselves involved. >> and they were physically prevented or if the officer was put physically prevented from doing it. >> yes. [inaudible]. >> i wanted to talk a little bit about the things that you said work under indicative under delirium, superhuman strength is that right pretty. >> yes pretty. >> which is a because of the inability to feel the pain. >> is a part of it yes. >> in the inability to feel the pain is something that you associate whether you train the
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officers with the delirium greatest. >> it could be the delirium, yes. >> so they were manifesting a response indicating the survey was hurting them. that would tend to implicate that they are not suffering from delirium is that right. [background noises]. >> over the response to the pain stimulus suggest that as a relates to excited delirium greatest. >> it may or may not become as a little bit hard to predict because no two people really present exact same way. >> so then how do you tell what it is. >> this not diagnosis come as a matter of in the information that you have at that time to provide this could potentially or you need to plan accordingly. >> and you indicated that whatever excited delirium is, you look at it as a medical issue that needs treatment. >> yes. >> in terms of a drug use is welcome is fair to say that if
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someone is showing drug intoxication, it can make them vocal, not just violent. >> thank you and nothing further. [inaudible]. >> ten minutes and then we will be back in touch.
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>> on the record, some point the state objected to the excited delirium training material, and essentially i think i don't want to speak to you for much, but your preference would be that mr. nelson not be allowed to present at this time but only if case in chief would require this witness to come back, is that correct? >> it is, your honor. >> that's the basic objection is a timing of the post of the admissibility. >> yes. >> again, mr. nelson, what did you want to deal with? >> if we could have a private conversation. [inaudible conversations]
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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> i'm going to excuse you for
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the day. she can be excused at this point, is that correct? >> yes. >> you can be excused for the day but the defense would like to call you back during their case and some mr. nelson will serve a subpoena on your some points to you have contact information? >> sure. >> recipient is still in force and unless you otherwise -- next tuesday at 9 a.m. where most likely mr. nelson will be telling you with exactly so you don't waste your time come down your. >> yes, sir. >> doesn't work? >> yes. >> so mr. nelson, how is that going to be served? [inaudible]ud >> i can just serve through the federation or something? >> yes. all right. we will make sure it gets done but for today you are excused. thank you. we will be in recess until 2:35 at least.
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>> the trial for derek chauvin, former minneapolis police officer charged in the death of george floyd continues wednesday at 10 a.m. eastern. watch live coverage of the trial on c-span2, online at or listen live on the c-span radio app. and if you missed our live coverage watch at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span2 and anytime on-demand at >> booktv on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and authors argue weekend. saturday at 8 p.m. eastern columbia university law professor jamal greene looks at america's approach to individual rights in this book how rights went wrong, why obsession with rights is tearing america apart. saturday at 9 p.m. eastern
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bowling green state university professor talks about free speech and the free exchange of ideas in this book why it's okay to speak their mind. sunday at 9 p.m. eastern on "after words" in her new book every day is a gift a memoir, illinois democratic senator tammy duckworth talks about her life and career in the military and in the u.s. senate. she's interviewed by political congressional editor. watch booktv this weekend and be sure to tune into in-depth sunday, may 2 at eastern with author on booktv on c-span2. >> c-span's is c-span's new online store. go there today to order a copy of the congressional directory, a compact spiral-bound book with contact information for every member of congress including
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bios and committee assignments. also contact information for state governors and the biden administration cabinet. order your copy at every purchase helps support c-span's nonprofit operation. >> on this wednesday morning we are live on c-span2 waiting forr a discussion with delaware democratic senator chris coons will be talking about climate change. this virtual event hosted by punch bowl news. ..


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