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tv   Day 8 of Trial for Derek Chauvin Accused in Death of George Floyd  CSPAN  April 8, 2021 7:49am-9:05am EDT

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congressional editor, shore. watch booktv this weekend be sure to tune into in-depth monday may 2nd at noon eastern on booktv on c-span2. ♪ ♪ c-span2 is your unfiltered view of government. created by america's cable television company, today we're brought to you by these television company who is provide c-span2 to viewers as a public service. ♪ ♪ now back to the trial of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin. there were more questions for los angeles police sergeant jody steger and special agent with the minnesota bureau of criminal apprehension.
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>> yes, sir. >> thank you, your honor. sergeant steger where we left off i think we were talking about how bystanders began to congregate around the event. right? >> probably so, yes. >> and you would agree that over the course of time, the bystanders some of the bystanders who were observing the event became more excited. >> more concerned i would phrase it. >> their voices grew louder. >> yes. >> they began using -- name calling. that's what i'm trying -- >>ng correct. >> and as that increased or as the time went on, the intensity of the crowd increased? >> yes. it became more concerned. >> now, we --
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looked at i'm going to talk about exhibit 110 if we can publish 110. this again being what some people call the use of force continue or control and response training guide correct? >> yes. >> essentially, this is a graphic illustration in terms of based upon subject's behavior how much force is authorized, correct? >> correct. >> the focus being on the suspect's behavior initially correct? correct. j and the response to that behavior, right? >> correct. >> now, again, we don't look at use of force in a vacuum right?
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>> no, we do not. >> we don't look at it, you know, in a singular frame. right? >> correct. >> we look at the totality of the cernings right? >> yes. >> and an officer a reasonable officer -- would take into consideration what's happened with the suspect a fewth minutes ago, correct? >> correct. j and try to use that information to inform what could potentially happen in the future, agreed? >> agreed. >> that's what reasonable officers do. >> yes. >> so if i'm a police officer, and me y and my two partners jut two minutes ago were fighting with someone right, and he -- our efforts became futile. right that's going to affect how we perceive might happen in the future with that, what we perceive might happen in the future with that person.
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>> something to be concerned about, correct? >> right. >> because, in fact, oftentimes people who become compliant after a struggle start to struggle again, right? >> certain instances yes. >> it happens, all right -- >> yes, it does. >> someone said catch their wind again and start fighting again right? >> yes. yes. but in most cases, officers are trained that you can only go by what suspect actions are at the time you can't say oh wow i thought he or she it was going to do this and based on their actions. >> officer use of force can exceed the suspects use of force,er right? >> the suspect behaviors right? >> that's the design correct? concern yes since that's proportional. j right meaning -- this krpght of proportionality if i i call you a name, and i'ma police -- if i call you a name, you're a police officer.
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you can't pull your gun out and shoot me. right? >> correct. >> that would be a disproportionate use of force to the threat i -- perceive. >> right. >> and so the mere fact that force is being applied it is not second by second but we have to look at it in a longer contact right? >> c but you are constantly reassessing during that time. >> constantly reassessing now i presume you've gone through firearm training. >> yes. have had situations in your firearm training are confronted with multiple threats right? >> yes. >> and you are training teaches you to deal with most active threat correct? >> correct or closest threat. >> the closest or biggest threat, correct? >> correct. >> you want to neutralize or con twengd that potential threat before you deal with the less
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tear threats? >> yes. >> and again, in this, you know, this cycle, the critical decision making model that's coming both in terms of what you're dealing with in the suspect right that critical decision making model is occurring. >> yes. >> it dealing with what's around you and what you're observing around you in your environment. it is dealing with other people that may be there. right? >> yes. >> and it's dealing with using that sail model to take all of your t training and experience and -- things that have nature too. right? >> correct. >> so there's -- literally hundreds if not thousands of decisions being made every nanosecond almost. >> n in certain instances, yes. and simply because a person is not fighting with you. if i'm not fighting with you that doesn't mean you can't use
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some sort of force to control me, right? >> depends on the circumstance. >> according to the minneapolis police department, if someone is passively resisting you, i mean if they're not fighting with you -- >> correct. >> force can still be used right? >> yes. in certain instances. >> staying once again suspect actions. >> again including joint manipulation escort holds what we would call just a restraint right? >> yes. again a lot of that depends on what the police response should be at that time if it is where the officer is decided that this person needs to go to jail, you know they're going to take him into custody then those will come into play if it is just more of a hey can we tiewk use or detaining them, then it may just be verbalization so it depends on circumstances. >> and, obviously, if we want to protect that person, and we know
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that ems is on its way, we can continue to restrain that person for ems if they have a medical need for ems right? >> it depends on circumstance. ultimately depending upon reasonable officer analysis right? >> yes. >> and what is expected from that specific agency what their expectations are of the officers performance as well as best practices as well. those are taken into consideration. >> and ultimately under grand versus connor analysis it is specific fact of the specific case. agreed? what the officer has seen at the scene. right? >> when we're talking about force, correct. >> all right. now, again, you've had an opportunity to review a lot of the minneapolis police department's training materials. >> yes, sir. >> some of which you found useful and some of which you
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didn't, right? >> yes. >> would it be fair to say that your review of those materials were more focused on defensive tactics use of force training, andmo policies and things of tht nature? >> correct. >> so you -- and i'm presuming that the more recent materials would be more informative to you informing your opinions right? >> yes. based on the -- what was current at the time of the incident. >> right. and you have seen the work force director list of the programs that officer chauvin took? >> yes. >> and you're familiar that officer chauvin according to those records took phase one defensive tactics in year of march 2020? >> i believe so. >> did you review phase one defensive tack tech training materials that marks 2020? >> i believe i did yes. if we could take this down, your honor.
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i'm just showing the witness -- can you see what's in front of you, sir? >> yes. >> you agree that this appears to be training materials for the 2020 in service phase one and qowld have been seen by officer chauvin? >> yes. >>ce if we just look at the presentation, this is a presentation that largely deals with demonstration protest crowd control right? >> yes. >> large crowds small crowds things of that nature right? >> yes. >> this would have been training that mr. chauvin had roughly a month or two before this
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instance? >> right. >> correct. >> does this appear to be a -- true and accurate copy of what you would have reviewed? >> yes. >> and i have previously marked this as exhibit 1032 and i would move for its submission. ... 2020s use force in service, large crowd management.
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>> any objection? >> yes, your honor. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> i'm sorry, no objection? >> no objection. >> all right. it is received. >> i'm showing you what i believe is slide 39 of this, and to ask permission to publish it. >> this is the minneapolis police department training materials on dealing with crowds, right? >> large crowds. >> large crowds.
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officers are trained, crowds are dynamic creatures and can change rapidly, right? >> yes. >> and this is for large crowd pgh yes. >> even you get ten people or 12 people, by dynamic creatures, right? >> in certain circumstances, you. >> and they can change very suddenly, right? >> yes. >> just a second, your honor. >> and i agree that this deals with larger crowds and larger protests? >> yes. i am familiar with similar transport and again officers, they are experiencing this training, , right? >> yes.. >> at thought never underestimate a crowds potential, right? >> correct. >> and again crowds being unique
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to the particular circumstances of a particular case, right? >> correct. >> so ultimately when an officer is on scene and is making a decision to use force and a crowd assembles, whether their peaceful orr not peaceful, an officer, a reasonable officer has to be aware of what they are doing, right? >> absolutely. >> and that can distract an officer. >> in certain circumstances,, yes. >> as people start trying to communicate to the officers, that can take -- even if it's just peaceful, hey officer, hey, sergeant steiger, you know, let's talk, that's distracting that officer for what he or she is doing, right? >> yes. >> cand an officer has to be prepared for the unexpected, a reasonable officer does, right? >> yes. they are always mitigating the risk. >> and i understand that part of
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what an officer has to do is as says the word someone may saying and comparing it to the town of how they're sayingf it, right? >> yes. >> that's what a reasonable officer does, right? >> yes. >> if i say hello, sergeant stiger versus hello sergeant stiger, right? there's two different tones and my tone can convey meaning, agreed to? >> yes. >> if i start calling you names, that conveys the meaning, right? >> yes. y a bitch, that conveysa particular intent, agreed? >> i wouldn't say and intent. >> a reasonable officer could foresee that or perceive that as a threat?
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>> name-calling? i would say to bintan officers training and experience. >> okay. but an officer, a reasonable officer could perceive the words of people are saying and the town that it is being said in as a threat or a risk to the officers safety, agreed? >> i risk possibly but officers are typically trained that when it comes to verbal threats, that you can't just use that only to justify force. >> now, you had again an opportunity to review minneapolis police department's training materials -- if we could take this down. can you see what is in front of you? >> yes. >> you reviewed i presume as a part of your analysis the minneapolis police department's crisis intervention technique
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training, right? >> yes. >> i am not seeking to admit this, but officers are trained to look at potential signs of aggression, right? >> yes or. >> a minneapolis police department transit police officers how to potentially perceive and aggressive behavior of a person, right? >> correct. >> that includes raising voices, right? >> yes. >> that includes people's tensing muscles? >> yes. >> exaggerated gestures, pacing? that can be a sign of an aggressive behavior? >> yes. typically those are when you're dealing with one on one with a specific subject or engaged in a specific call for service. typically when the training is given its for that come with us more of a one-on-one meeting with the subject one on one. >> that's the training, that in terms of now you are an officer
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and you are engaged with the suspect, right, and somebody else is now pacing around and watching you and watching you and call you names and saying you are a like that this could be viewed by reasonable officer as a threat? >> potential threat, correct. >> and, in fact, when that happens, is look at the site in front of you, when howick versus talking to an officer, if there mimicking or rageful, offices are specifically trained to try to predict future behavior based on that, correct? >> yes, to prepare themselves. >> when someone starts threatening you, it's a possibility that an officer can view that as a potential deadly assault is about to happen. that's what they are trained. >> yes. that's what they are trained. [inaudible]
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>> now, you testified that -- did you listen to every single thing that the crowd of the people were saying? >> i attempted to, yes. >> okay. >> and some you can't make out but yes for the most part, yes. >> you would agree that if someone were to say if you touch me like that i'm going to -- i would like to slap the out of you, , right? that could be viewed as a threat? >> yes. >> reasonable police officers need to have a higher level of awareness of the situation, don't they?
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>> yes. >> and a reasonable police officer, you would want a a reasonable police officer to be more situationally aware in everything that is happening around him or her than an average bystander, right? >> yes. >> you would expect that. >> usually that comes with training, experience and continue on. >> now there were some questions about actual force that was applied in this case, and it is your professional opinion, is it not, that this appears to have officer chauvin snee on the next mr. floyd, right? >> yes. >> and you concluded that was a deadly use of force, right? >> yes, based on mr. floyd actions, or lack of action. >> so in the context you believe the knee was on the neck and
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applying pressure to the carotid artery. >> was not necessarily on the carotid artery but it was in the neck area and on the back. >> and so as a police officer you are trained in prone handcuffing, correct? >> correct. >> trained in ground defense? >> yes. >> and ground defense includes the prone restraint technique, right? >> yes. i mean there are other terms for it but yes. >> what would you call that? >> depends on what come what context you need. >> so the prone control technique is that -- >> yes. >> specific control your fluids? you've heard -- [inaudible] >> yes, sir. >> you've heard the phrase control ahead and control of our? >> yes. >> that is, , what police officr trained, right?
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>> yes, when it comes to handcuffing. >> and in ground defense, right? >> yes. >> and in the context of ground defense or in handcuffing or continuing to restrain a police -- a suspect, control ahead, control the body, right? >> yes, when they are resisting. >> these concepts are widely accepted throughout law enforcement in the united states? >> yes. >> and so again in the training materials you have reviewed you can see there are photographs, correct? >> correct. >> of officers employing i knee to the head, right? >> i didn't see officer employed and need to the head, no. >> sometimes to the next? >> yes. >> and the specific technique you are trained is for an officer to put his knee into what would be like the trapezius area in between the shoulder
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blades at the base of the neck, right? >> yes. >> and that is standard protocol, standard police practice come basically and every single department that you are familiar with? >> that i am familiar with? yes. >> and you were trained that way. >> yes. >> and there's immediacy of the handcuffing, correct? >> correct. >> and there is the need to continue to control the suspect, correct? if they are resisting. >> yes. >> and then there is simply holding someone or restraining them to decide what your next steps are going to be, right? >> yes. in most cases however especially in the last 20 years officers are trained to what you handcuff a person even if there is to resisting used to want to try to put them in somewhat of a side recovery position or set them
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upor even if they're still resisting? >> yes. and hold them down in the side recovery position. [inaudible] >> you would agree that the minneapolis police department are trained that when a person is handcuffed and then rendered unconscious, that officers need to use caution in on handcuffing them to revive them? >> i am not familiar with that. >> did you as a part of your analysis, did you review any training materials regarding the use of the lateral vascular neck restraint? >> yes. >> just looking in front of you, did you look at this training material?
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>> yes. >> officer trained that if cpr is needed to remove handcuffs first, right? >> correct. >> and use caution because the subject may revive agitated and ready to fight? >> correct. >> you've had that training? >> yes. >> you've had that experience where someone was rendered unconscious, is revived and fight you more? >> not that they -- they passed out and then they came to come you. >> and then they fight you more? >> yes. >> looking at what is already in evidence, the 2019 use of force manual, slide 41.
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this is what we are talking about in terms of the prone armed control, right? >> yes. >> use a photograph year officers in the appears to be across into the shoulder blades and between the shoulder blades and across the head and neck area of the person, right? >> yes, as he is attempting to handcuff the person. >> your honor, , not an objectin but -- [inaudible] >> 2019 use the force. >> sorry. i am referring to date stamp 21464, 2019 offensive tactic that you introduced. >> if we could just take a brief pause. sorry, your honor.
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[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> your honor, this is from exhibit 126 which is which is already in evidence. i would ask your permission to publish. again, you see here this officer's knee appears to be over the neck and head of the subject as he is attempting to
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handcuff him, correct? >> correct. there are circumstances when they knee is put in this position, correct? >> yes but officers always caution to try to stay away from the neck as much as possible. >> all right. we can take that down, your honor. now, you were shown a series of photographs, compared of photographs and i just don't have a copy of that right now. i believe it was exhibit 274, the one you just admitted. >> 254? >> there was one photo -- would it be possible to publish that?
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the photo, if we could publish this, exhibit, in this upper right-hand corner, right? >> yes. >> mr. chauvin, the right shoulder is down lower, right than the left shoulder? >> yes. >> and that would be consistent with more of his weight be on his right side, correct? >> yes. >> we can take that down. and again when we look at still photographs, what we miss this sort of the dynamics of what's happening, right? >> yes. >> so weight can be shifting from side to side at times? >> correct. >> and if an officer is generally speaking on his toes, majority of the week is going to be in the feet, right? that's what you were trained?
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>> yes. that's how officers are trained. >> so if it's left leg, his foot is off to the side, he has no weight or he is less weight on that side of his body because his foot is off to the side, right? >> yes. >> and if his right foot, the toes are tucked under, that would be consistent with having the majority of the weight on the right side, right? >> yes. >> and again in uses of force that you used yourself or in uses of force that you have reviewed, right, oftentimes these things, uses a force, leads to injuries on a suspect, right? >> yes. >> and if the weight of a human being was placed in a particular area, based on your training and
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experience of reviewing police uses of force, you would expect there to be injury where the majority of the week exists, right? >> objection, your honor. lack of foundation. >> overruled. >> not necessarily, no. >> but obviously medical doctors may be able to enter that better, right? >> correct. >> you would agree that on may 25 of 2020 minneapolis police department authorized the use of neck restraints, right? >> correct. >> and the conscious neck restraint was not considered a lethal use of force? >> correct.
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>> so i would like to show you a series of photographs that were introduced yesterday, starting with exhibit 1045. so before we go there you would agree that some of the problems with photographs are that, again it doesn't capture, a single photograph is going to capture the dynamics of what's happening, right? >> in some cases, yes. >> we can shift, right? >> correct. >> in in a video versus a still photograph. >> yes. >> and positions can change, right? >> yes. >> and those things can happen throughout the course of the time of use of force, right? >> yes. >> now i would like to show you and publish exhibit 1045.
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i don't know if you've seen these but these are stills from the body-worn camera of -- it's a little difficult to see physical layer but maybe you can see better on your screen. [inaudible] >> thank you, sir. >> in this area here it appears you can see officer chauvin's left leg. >> yes. >> and that officer chauvin's chin appears to be sort of parallel to or over mr. floyd's left shoulder blade, agreed? >> it's hard to tell. it could be his neck or shoulder blade. >> and the dip right in here come the area between the two shoulder blades, he is
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handcuffed, right? that causes the shoulders to sort of come back. >> i'm sorry. are you referring to his left knee, correct? >> right. >> yes, his left knee appears to be based on the photograph i am looking at near the neck area of mr. floyd's. >> in between the shoulder blade here and what would be the shoulder blade behind his hand? >> above it. i wouldn't say it is in between. it appears to be more above the shoulder blade and it does on the shoulder blades or below. >> almost resting on the shoulder blades. >> above. >> you would call it above? >> yes. >> all right. it appears to be angled in towards the cruiser, correct? >> yes. >> i'm showing you -- display that again. that being a 20:23:32, right? >> yes.
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>> again, you can see mr. floyd's shoulder budget a little bit more pronounced? >> yes spirit it appears to be about the shoulder blade, correct. >> yes. >> mr. sjogren's -- excuse me, mr. floyd's shoulder blade is a little more pronounced. mr. chauvin's shin or calf appears to be about the shour blade? >> correct. >> angled in towards the squad car, correct? >> slightly, yes. >> showing you 1047. 1047. this is now at 20:27 appears to be a different angle now, right? >> yes. >> and you can get a much clearer view of the placement of mr. chauvin's knee? >> yes. >> and again here you've got the shoulder blade, shoulder blade, mr. chauvin's knee is sort of at
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the base of the neck? >> correct, i would agree. >> and looking finally exhibit 1048, you can see mr. floyd's hat in this picture, correct? >> yes. >> i didn't use a depth perception placement of mr. chauvin's knee relative to the neck of mr. floyd? >> somewhat, yes. >> now if we could take this down, your honor. i would like to show you what has been introduced into evidence as exhibit 1020. which on the left-hand side of your screen, you see that
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appears to be the bystander video? >> yes. >> on the right-hand side that is from mr. kueng's body-worn camera? >> yes. >> you would agree that at this point based on everything that we've seen in the same photographs, on the left-hand side it appears that mr. chauvin's knee is on mr. floyd's neck? >> yes. more on the base of the neck. and from officer kueng's body-worn camera it appears that it was more at the base of the neck in between the shoulder
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blades, right? >> yes. >> and, in fact, as you review some of the videos while mr. floyd was on come in the prone position, they are points in time at which shiflett picks up his head and moves it, agreed? >> he attempted to early on, yes. he was stating he couldn't breathe. attempting to try to reach their. >> when he was able to lift up his head at some point, turn it, correct? >> slightly, he attempted to. >> i have no further questions, your honor. >> redirect. >> thank you, your honor.
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sir, , to clarify a little bit n -- thank you -- to clarify a little bit on the known risk you testified to with respect to positional asphyxia, is the risk related to the pressure on the neck or the pressure on the body? >> the pressure on the body, any additional pressure on the body complicates breathing more so than if there was no pressure at all. >> and so the placement of the knee even if they can be shifting between the base of the neck, the point is that both those, the defendant's knees were on mr. floyd's body during the entirety of the restraining or did not come is? >> yes. >> -- the restraining period, is that right? >> yes. >> one of to ask you some questions about what may have been apparent to the defendant
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when he first got on scene. you asked some questions about being dispatched, and you know the term code four, correct? >> correct. >> and we aware that prior to the defendant arriving on the scene that officer lane had called code four? >> yes, i believe so. in reviewing some of the documentation and things of that nature. >> and what does that he? >> that means everything is okay, that we have a suspect in custody. >> so at least at the time the defendant arrived he would have been aware raise on the totality that code for hat had been called? >> yes. >> i would like to direct your attention to the moment in time that he would've arrived. you can pull exhibit 43, which is for the record officer lane's
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body-worn camera, and i would like you to begin displaying at timestamp 20:17:20. [inaudible] >> i'm sorry. can you hold on? [inaudible conversations] >> i apologize. 47. we see that, you can leave it at 20 -- or where it was. go ahead. we see in this still frame now for the record the timestamp is
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20:17:20. at this point in time we see officer thao and would've been next to the defendant arrived, is that right? >> yes, i yes, i believe ye shoulder. >> i would ask to begin publishing to the jury. [inaudible] >> i'm not trying to win. i'll get on the ground, anything. i'll get in the car. you know it. [inaudible] >> if you get in this car we are done. start working with me. >> i'm claustrophobic. >> put me in the front, please. >> no, you're not getting in the front. get in the car. >> i'm not a bad guy. [inaudible]
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>> you know, and you can take that down. sir, in assessing an individual in the totality of the circumstances that would of been apparent at the scene, were you able to detect any indication that mr. floyd was under some sort of distress? >> based on his comments and based on his actions, yes it was the possibility. >> and is that something that would have -- apparently officer chauvin, the defendant, would it seem that come is that correct? >> yes. >> and what a reasonable officer have taken that into account? >> yes. >> you testified that the force that was used here during the restraining period by the defendant was, in fact,
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excessive, , is our right? >> yes. >> you were asked on cross to distinguish between the standard or to comment on the standard of objectively reasonable force is it your opinion then to a degree of professional certainty that the force you have identified as applied by the defendant during the restraint period, was it objectively reasonable or not objectively reasonable? >> it was not objectively reasonable. it is that in the basis of think it was excessive? >> correct. >> you asked about different techniques for de-escalation and the telling someone to relax. i would like you to comment on the context in which mr. floyd was told to relax by the defendant. >> it appeared in a video that he was told to relax ask you a stating that he was in medical distress, he couldn't breathe, and that he was in pain.
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>> and so again the context, the words of the defendant versus the actions telling someone to relax when you're sitting on top of them, is that an effective de-escalation techniques, in your opinion? [inaudible] >> overruled. >> not necessarily. >> as to an officer, reasonable officer reassessing in reevaluating the situation, they also have to take in information related to a subjects potential medical condition, is that right? >> yes. >> you agree with the statement in your custody, and your care? >> yes. >> what does that mean? >> that means when she takes him into custody in your responsible for their care. >> and kenny of an officer simply ought not believe in? >> no. >> you have to consider the context?
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>> correct. i'm sorry, , could you please repeat that. >> i'm sorry. you are obligated to. as part of your duty. >> and in the context that you saw here in which mr. floyd was manifesting some distress, did you believe the defendant have an obligation at least take that into consideration in the totality of circumstances when considering to continue the type of force he was applying? >> absolutely, as the time went on, clearly in the video you could see that mr. floyd's medical -- his health was deteriorating. his breath was getting lower. his tone of voice was getting lower. his movements are starting to decease. so at that point as an officer on scene you have a responsibility to realize that okay, something is not right, something has changed drastically from what was
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occurring earlier so, therefore, you have responsibility to take some type of action. >> you were shown some training materials that include photographs of officers in positions which they would have their legs on a subjects back and base of the net, it's about? >> yes. >> in the photograph you were shown that subject was not yet handcuffed, was he? >> know he was not. >> and the purpose of situating oneself on the subject is to gain control in order to handcuffed the individual? >> yes. >> what does -- what is he off is supposed to do after the handcuffed individual? >> sipped the person up or put them in the side recovery position. >> you were asked or comment on sort of the notion that something simple enforcement do, have to do, uses of force, are
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not attracted to the public, is our right? >> correct. >> and, in fact, you asked about a presentation that you would given relative to that called, was it awful but lawful? >> yes. >> and to be lawful the force must be objectively reasonable, correct? >> correct. >> and if it isn't lawful, then what is left? >> well, the whole premise of the presentation was that in certain certain to -- situations based on a policy or particular law, even though the situation may be deemed lawful in the communities eyes, the use of force is awful. so it was stating that hey, in these situations you can have a
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situation where by law it looks horrible to the common eye, but based on the state law it is lawful. >> but if it is not objectively reasonable and it is not lawful, then it is just awful. >> correct. >> nothing further. [inaudible] >> you were not personally there that day, correct? >> the day of -- >> correct. >> correct. >> and you would not have known how people were feeling, , correct? >> correct. >> you would not know how they felt in terms of their perception, correct? >> correct. >> you would not know how mr.
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floyd's body felt at that moment, correct? >> only what he was verbalizing. >> i'm talking about in terms of the stiffness or tension of his body. >> correct. >> and again in terms of your use of force reviews in the past, you said you were a cute r reviewer. how many reviewers look at an incident in the terms of use of force? >> from start to finish? numerous, and los angeles police department it starts with the sergeant doing an investigation. and from there it will go to the watch commander who happens to be typically of the ten or another sergeant, the training coordinator. then they make recommendations and they send it to the captains of the division. at that point the captains would then send it to the bureau and that's what i was at one point as well. in the bureau makes recommendations and then it gets
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set up to another unit and they make the final recommendation in that. with regards to more serious ones what i was a pure member, it goes from the investigators to the use the force review board which is five-member board, four command staff and a peer. >> and the five people, they make recommendations to move up the chain come right? >> yes. so then the correct locations -- i start. >> no. >> they make recommendations to the chief of police and he makes recommendations to the police commission, and the inspector general's office also reviews all the evidence as well and they make recommendations. in most cases they concur with the chief but in some cases they disagree. and then finally a presentation is made to the police commission and the police commission at that point makes the final decision? >> back so there's of review, right?
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>> right. >> in terms of that five-member review board that you were describing? >> right. >> are those decisions always unanimous? >> no. >> as to whether or not it was reason to use for? >> no. >> and sometimes those five people they may disagree with each other, right pgh yes. we had something we call a minority report. i have written a couple those myself, but yes. if one person or number of people on the board will disagree, then the ones that disagree, a minority has to do a report. basically telling what the case is and why they disagree. >> right. even within that process, there is five potential police officers who can disagree with each other. >> correct. >> i have no further questions. >> thank you sergeant. we appreciate your time. you are excuse. >> thank you. one more witness to start.
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your honor, the state would call special agent ryerson to the stand. .. >> do y ou swear or affirm under penalty of perjury the testimony you are about to give is the truth and nothing but the truth? >> if you feel comfortable doing so, take off your mask. let's start with using your full name. >> james ryerson. >> mr. frank. >> thank you, your honor.
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and you tell us what your current occupation is? >> i am currently senior special agent with the minnesota bureau of criminal apprehension. >> in general what does a senior special agent do? what does your job until? >> i am currently assigned to the newly formed use of force investigation group. we conduct criminal investigations into uses of force. >> yes sir. >> you're not typically wearing what we think of as a police uniform but when you work you have a uniform ? >> generally know, generally plainclothes . >> you mentioned well, when did you firstbecome licensed as a peace officer ? >> i started my law-enforcement career in 2007. >> let's run through your educational work experience before your job as a police officer. first of all, did you obtain
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like a four yearundergraduate degree ? >> i did. >> can you tell the jury what that is. >> i had a solution criminal justice. >> when did you achieve that? >> 2006. >> after that did you goto work in the field of law enforcement ? >> i served at the. [inaudible] nypd. >> did you do some training to be a nypd officer? >> it nypd at a six-month academy that i successfully. >> is that when you obtain yourlicense to be a peace officer ? >> yes sir. >> that was what year after mark. >> approximately 2007. >> how many years did you workfor the nypd ? >> approximately 4 and a half .
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>> can you describe inwhat capacity you worked as a police officer in new york city ? >> assigned to the 32nd precinct, my initial duties were as impact officer interacting with the community, addressing wally of life issues. i was transferred to manhattan task force as a task force officer and from there, i was assigned to address quality of life issues as well as violent crime issues and narcotics and guns. >> all that time spent on the streets essentially. >> correct. >> at some point did youleave the new york city police department ? >> i did. >> what was the next job you took? >> i was with the dea. >> what year was that? >> approximately 2011. >> what were your duties >> to address long-term investigations into narcotics .
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>> so you had to do training for that job, i assume. how long was the training for that job? >> approximately four and half months at quantico virginia. >> after doing thetraining was assigned to a certain location ? >> i was. >> wherever humans assigned. >> to an enforcement group new york city and i was transferred to arizona where my responsibility was investigating a cartel. >> when you say cartel, we are talking drug cartel. >> correct. >> at some point you leavethe dea and what year was that ? >> 2013. >> why? >> to move back to minnesota. >> when you moved back to minnesota had you been here before ? when you went to the new york city police department that was a change of location for you. >> it was.
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>> so in 2013 you came back from minnesota west and mark. >> correct. >> did youfind work in a related law-enforcement field ? >> i went in corporate investigations focused on insurance, white-collar based work. during that time did you complete more education western mark. >> i did. >> tell the jury what that was. >> my masters in business administration. >> what year was that? >> approximately 2014. >> at some point did you leave that corporate investigative work ? >> yes. >> where did you go from there and mark. >> how long did you work there? >> a very short time. >> i was hired as aspecial agent .
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>> was that part of the state government? what agency is that. >> when you worked at the department of commerce were you a licensed police officer? >> yes sir. >> a lot of people don't know there are licensed police officers and thedepartment of commerce . >> what did you do? >> primarily white-collar investigations. >> and some point did you leave the department of commerce? where did you go after that. >> the bureau of apprehension. >> when were you hired by the bureau of criminal apprehension? >> 2013. >> and that's where you are today. >> initially licensed in 2007, you maintain your license entire time. >> no. >> the middle of 2013, i was not. >> so middle of 2013 to 2016 i was not. >> that's when you were doing
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corporate work. >> correct. >> as a licensed police officer, you've done all that, directed your career. >> yes sir. >> when you were hired at the bca in 2018, what were you hired to do? >> i was hired to the metro homicide unit so we investigated major homicide as well as officer involved. >> when hired at the bca are you required to through some training priorto working at the bca ? can you describe the screen you have to do when you? >> training was involved with writing search warrants, report writing as well as some tactics. interview interrogation as well . >> do you also have to spend some time at the medical examiner'soffice ?
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>> yes sir. >> i recently we quality program office while conducting. >>. >> are you currently working on an additionaleducational goal . >> yes sir. >> can you tell the jury what is? >> doctoral student at st. mary's arizona focus on education leadership. >> you for your work for the bureau of criminal tension. for the bca. >> correct. >> can you describe what is the bca? >> the state law-enforcement agency, we are the overall policy needed insubordination . investigative division information services laboratory training session
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services will see as easy. >> your jurisdiction is generally where ? >> c of minnesota. >> and on may 25 of 2020, what were your duties as a special agent? >> currently the lead investigator for the investigation so i was notified of the incident early and quickly . >> you mentioned earlier about currently having a different assignment. can you explain to the jury how your assignment has changed may 25 of last year to today. >> back then i was in the metro homicide unit investigated homicide as well as officer involved incident. the newly inform you solely focuses on investigations involving use of force.
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>> you mentioned earlier the term case agent. what did that mean? >> case agent is another term meaning lead investigator ona case . >> and you investigated the incident led to the death of george lloyd youwere the case for that case .>> yes sir. >> when you are the case agent, are you responsible for knowing the course of the investigation? and you followed in all aspects of the investigation ? >> translate. >> that runs frombeginning to end . >> yes sir. >> taking you back to may 25, 2020, you got called out regarding this incident. describe for the jurors how you got initial call and what you did to respond. >> my supervisor called 9:45
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and informed me there had been an incident that occurred in the confines of minneapolis involving minneapolis and it was determined myself, agent phil scott neely will report to city hall so we city hall and then it was determined that the agent would head to chicago to the scene and myself and agent scott miller would into the lower 100 minneapolis city hall. >> did you understand specifically why you were being called to this incident ? >> we knew some critical incident had occurred but at that point wedidn't have a huge amount of information . >> your critical incident what itmeans you at that time ? >> incidents involving a police officer potentially easily could have caused harm. >> on may 20, 2020, was the
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bca responding to calls on critical incidents withinthe city of minneapolis ? >> yes. >> i do that is the bca process for responding to those goals? >> we had critical incident chronicles . >> when you arrive at the ages city hall, with the administrative offices of the police department are,correct ? at some point the decisions made to go to the scene at 38 and chicago. >> yes sir. >> you mueller city hall? >>. >> when you arrived there, did you get what we hope everything about what was known so far western mark. >> yes sir. >> did you learn who the
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involved officers were ? >> yes sir. >> officers you were involved time. >> officer david derek chauvin, officer lane and officer thao. >> and in the course of well, i guess i should ask this way . did you initiate the critical incident protocol for this incident? >> i did. >> is preventing photographs of each officer? >> yes sir. >> where were those officers at city hall. >> i should ask you using you initially got the call about 9:40 5 pm. you will was you seeingall ? >> approximately 40 later. >> can we put this off before the witness please?
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i'm going to show you 279. he recognized that photograph? >> yes sir. >> you? >> yes sir. >> is a fair representation of what you saw the? >> yes, sir. >> over 279. >> to publish it your honor? and do you recall approximately when this was taken ? >> after i arrive at city hall? >> through a subsequent investigation that you don't you learn the approximate weight of the defendant around this time period. >> yes sir. >> what wasthat weight ? >> 148. >> and as a police officer
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since one, 2007, are you familiar with i call it a duty to, the equipment that he's wearing smr. >> yes sir. >> can you describe for the jurors what is present on his duty to. >> initially firearm,, mace, realtor and a review associated with that as well disease a magazine is to hold bullets for the firearm. >> and any body armor that he is currently wearing smr. >> yes, he usually has a guest on. >> based on your experience as a police officer estimate weight of the defendant? >> approximately 30 to 40 pounds. >> while you are there city
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hall you endeavored to collect other items for the investigation. >> yes sir. >> what other items didyou acquire ? >> part of my call is acquiring the officer involved uniform as well as their yes sir. >> me minneapolis police officers where body cameras? >> did you want to? >> yes sir. >> can you retain a physical body worn camera and provides it then to the bca. >> so you acquired those or
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body. >> yes sir. >> and the force of the investigation acquired other videos as well. >> with regards to thebody camera videos , you've watched all those? >> yes sir. >> those have a timestamp on it. >> yes. >> do they appear to be consistent with each other in their timestamps ? >> yes. >> did you collect other data about the incidents. >> i collected a report. >> can you describe for the jury is a had report.>> it is a transfer radio traffic associated with choir. >> milestone video. >> it's a city video that is positioned at the streetlevel . and at various places throughout . >> learn there was a video of the location of this incident
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. >> yes sir. >> and you obtained that. >> yes. >> what about information about the 911 call. >> i retained the audiophile for the 911 call. >> while you were there at some point did you about a facebook video of the incident? >> yes sir. >> how do you learn about that. >> flores notified me of a video that surfaced on facebook . >> were you able to watch that video western mark. >> i wasjolted shortly thereafter. >> can you recall if you watched the whole thing ? >> i believe it was a portion of the video >> and throughout your investigation of this case did you come to learn who was the person making that video or filming that? >> darnella frazier. >> so after your duties at city hall did you proceed to the
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scene? >> yes, sir. >> and when you arrived at the scene were there other bca individuals there? >> yes, sir. >> who all was there at that point? >> i met with mike phil and mckenzie anderson. do you recall what time it was that you arrived at the scene? >> approximately 2:00, 3:00 in the morning of the 26th. >> and you mentioned the crime scene team. can you just describe very generally for the jurors what you mean by the crime scene team? >> crime scene team is members of our bca laboratory who go out and forensically gather evidence and criminal investigations. >> so they investigate crimes at the scene? >> yes, they collect and process crimes at the scene. >> and who was the -- let me --
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how many members are there of the crime scene? >> typically two to three and a special operations agent who is assigned to take video and photograph. >> so there was a team leader? >> yes. >> who was that in this case? >> mckenzie anderson. when you arrived at the scene did you learn about some vehicles at the scene that were involved in the incident supposedly? >> yes, sir. >> and what were those vehicles? can you describe them, please? >> i believe blue in color mercedes benz and a minneapolis police car squad car. >> and when you say mercedes benz, do you know what style? >> an suv. >> that's what i was trying to get. and those two vehicles can you see them at the scene. >> yes. do you recall where they were located? >> i believe they were on the south side of 38th.
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>> and with regard to the squad car, the minneapolis police squad car, did you learn anything about about that vehicle? >> yes. >> what did you learn? >> i learned that two $20 bills were in a manila envelope in the trunk area of the vehicle as well as other items that relates to this incident. >> so what did you do with regard to that envelope? >> i seized those at the scene, that envelope is he scene. >> by seizing it, you took it with you? >> correct. >> and did you open up that envelope and see what its contents were? >> initially, yes. >> and so you mentioned $20 bills, correct? >> correct. >> your honor, if i could show the witness only, please, exhibit 198.
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>> [inaudible] . >> sure. [silent] >> members of the juries, we're going to take our lunch break at this time and try to reconvene at 1:15. >> thank you, your honor. call mckenzie anderson to the stand. >>


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