tv Day 9 of Trial for Derek Chauvin Accused in Death of George Floyd CSPAN April 8, 2021 4:24pm-4:42pm EDT
are we at now? 2:45 p.m.? 3:40 p.m.? 3:40 p.m. >> the medical evidence testimony portion of the derek chauvin trial under way, day nine of the trial in minneapolis of the former minneapolis police officer charged in the death of george floyd. they heard this morning from pulmonologist doctor mark martin tobin and now daniel, a forensic toxicologist of the lapse in pennsylvania. taking a 20 minute break, we expect to resume about 4:40 p.m. eastern or 3:40 p.m. central. a reminder, we will re- air today's trial at the 8:00 eastern here on c-span2 as always, all coverage of today in previous days are available at c-span.org. while we wait for the trial to resume, testimony from earlier
today. >> just a reminder, you are still under oath. >> yes. [background noises] speak. >> good afternoon. thank you for being with us here today. i'll take a sip, cheers. [laughter] all right so i just want to review a few things, i don't think we'll take too long but you are ultimately approached by the state of minnesota to assist them in the review of the medical issues in this case? >> correct. >> you have volunteered to do
the work at no cost? >> correct and that's why you decided not to charge a fee? >> correct. >> when in other cases, what we do you normally charge? >> i charge an hour. my hourly rate is 500 an hour. >> you agreed to waive your hourly weight rate? >> yes. >> you thought it was an important case? >> yes. >> in preparation for your testimony, he met with the state numerous times? >> correct. >> you have the opportunity to review all medical information obtained in this case? >> yes. >> that would include mr.
floyd's previous medical history? >> correct. >> autopsy and toxicology reports prepared in this case? >> yes. >> as well as the seagate of materials, police reports and things of that nature? >> correct. >> correct me if i'm wrong but you are not a pathologist? >> correct. >> your specialty is in pulmonology, critical care and things of that nature? >> correct. >> you have an interest in, and impressive resume relevant to -- >> correct. >> you been honored for your work in that regard? >> correct. >> you are not a minneapolis police officer? >> correct. >> the training provided by minneapolis police department in terms of medical care comes nowhere close to your level of expertise? >> correct. >> you understand minneapolis
police are not emts? >> correct. >> they have basic lifesaving certificate dealing with gunshots, tourniquet and cpr? >> yes. >> you've had the opportunity to review body camera footage, correct? >> yes. >> i think you testify you've watched these videos hundreds of times? >> correct. >> you watch from all different angles? >> correct. >> you have the luxury of slowing things down, slow motion, still framing areas times? >> correct. >> so your analysis of this case comes after hundreds, if not thousands of hours fence looking at this? >> i don't know the total amount of time but substantial. >> right so then ultimately, based on the review, you've
prepared a report? >> correct. >> you provided to the state of minnesota january this year? >> january 27. >> after that, you had numerous meetings with the prosecution team in this case? >> by zoom. >> including january 30 of this year? >> i don't know the date but that sounds correct. >> so if i were to tell you the dates for january 30, march 3, march 9, march 17, march 21, april 6 and april 7, you would not have any reason to dispute me? >> i have no reason. >> you understand notes are made of the meetings provided to the defense? >> i am aware of that. >> you been able to spend substantial period of time repairing exhibits the jury was able to see? >> correct. >> those were prepared by you or someone within your team? >> by me.
>> you provided those to the prosecution in advance of today's testimony? >> correct. >> you understand they were provided to me last night? >> i have no idea when. >> so you have had a lot of time to prepare both yourself and the prosecution team in connection with this case? >> correct. >> you talked quite a bit about physics in your direct testimony, agreed? >> yes. >> would agree that physics or application of physical force is a constantly changing set of circumstances? >> i didn't catch what you said. >> you would agree with me, would you not when you look at the concepts of physics, constantly changing. >> all the time. >> constant, milliseconds and nano seconds, right? >> yes. >> if i put this much weight or this much weight, all formulas and variations will change
second to second, millisecond to millisecond, nanosecond to nanosecond? >> i agree. >> similarly, biology works the same way? >> yes. >> my heart beats, my lungs breathe, my brain sends millions of signals to my body at all times? >> correct. >> faster than the speed of light? >> correct. >> millions of signals every nanosecond? >> yes. >> in your report, you kind of discuss when you're talking about instances, the physics or biology, what you are root talking about is a single nanosecond, all of these philosophies are working in concert at all times? >> the mean value but it's into one.
>> you have taken this case and literally boiled it down to a nanosecond? >> obviously in my report, a visible chronology from the time the knee is placed on the neck and all the time until what's happening in the er. >> so your report talks about the nature of things but when we talk about the biology and fix it of the case, these things are working simultaneously, contemporaneously altogether? >> correct. >> in an incredibly rapid fashion? >> yes. >> you would agree with me that as the incident was occurring, there's nobody measuring units
of force placed on any particular position of any together person at any particular moment? >> there was nobody there measuring at the time, i agree but there are calculations. >> understood and that's when you calculate them what you have to do, boil it down to what you would call the mean or average? >> correct. >> whenever we look at the concept of an average, there are things happening moments before, moments after? >> yes. >> forces will increase or decrease relative to the nano seconds of time? >> correct. >> ultimately when we talk about biology, pathologist tries to look at all intersection of all the things that occur in a particular death investigation,
correct? >> they are not looking at anything to do with physiology. >> but they are also looking at other factors may contribute to the individual? >> they are basically -- sorry? >> it's a yes or no. >> looking at things beyond the nanosecond, agreed? >> in terms of at nanosecond, the nanosecond. >> but they take into consideration things simply beyond physiology, right? >> i merely at psychology remark what causes heart to stop in the lungs to cease to function, etc.? >> they are making an inference based on the pathological time.
>> considering a multitude of biological factors involved in the death of the person, right? >> the same as any physician. >> so in terms of your review you would agree the amount of time you spent looking at videos analyzing videos from different perspectives and angles, it's far greater than this incident? >> yes. >> probably to the tens of thousands? >> i really don't know but substantially longer. >> right. ultimately include mr. floyd died what we would call hypoxic
death? >> yes. >> low level of oxygen that caused damage to the brain resulting in pulseless electrical activity? >> not quite. low level of oxygen that caused damage to the brain, the brain didn't cause it? the low level of oxygen caused both from the damage to the brain, low level of oxygen separately caused it? >> an example of how multiple processes occur simultaneously for. >> is just one process, low level of oxygen during bush. >> having an effect on multiple -- the heart and brain and lungs? >> not really, it is just to, brain and heart. >> now you talked about, i think you call it, is it the new
government ligament with him i saying that right? >> yes. >> the back of the neck, it's very hard? >> roughly the palm of your hand. >> you said it's a very, very hard service. >> yes it can with stand a great amount of pressure? >> yes. >> so when we talk about placement of the knee, there would be peers of time for mr. chauvin sydney was placed on that ligament based on your observation? >> yes. >> that goes both ways. >> you have opportunity to review the autopsy? >> i did. >> you understand there was no bruising either top skin or under skin services noted by doctor baker? >> i am aware.
>> you also are aware talked about the hypo bearings? it was photographed and no injury known? >> i am aware. >> i found it interesting when you talk about this notion of if you can't speak if you can speak doesn't mean -- if you can speak, you can breathe, right? you described this as a very dangerous proposition, right? you described as causing a false sense of security. >> correct. >> in your report, you write a paragraph how physicians often times have trouble with this? >> yes. >> people similar to yourself in medical school, right?
>> right. >> i'm sorry, you have to say yes. >> sorry, yes. >> intelligent men and women graduating from college and medical school are engaged in the practice of medicine, sometimes they have problems with this? >> yes. >> a patient comes in and says they are having trouble breathing and often times of position will not believe them. >> it is important to make sure we are talking about speech or difficulty in breathing, they are different. >> right, you write in your report some doctors incorrectly consider patients to be hysterical. [inaudible] >> the purpose of the report -- >> overruled. >> you wrote in your report some doctors incorrectly consider patients hysterical and
imaginary in nature with further aggravate patient distress. >> as i recall. >> he wrote this represents a physician's failure to understand fundamental cause. >> talking about a different thing there, that's hyperventilation syndrome. >> so somebody -- >> it's very different, they are apples and oranges. >> but physicians, someone comes in hyperventilating and they articulate to their position, i can't breathe, hyperventilation syndrome and physicians often times, as you indicate, confuse this issue? >> correct. >> they blame the patient? >> i don't know if they blame the patient but they miss the diagnosis.
>> we are talking about speaking and breathing simultaneously from a different consideration a minneapolis police lieutenant who trains police happens to have testified that it a common statement in the course of treatment or course of training, minneapolis police, you might take exception with that? >> i didn't follow your question, it is very hard to hear. >> and i'm losing my voice. >> if a minneapolis police officer -- minneapolis police lieutenant, a trained minneapolis police officer testified that is frequently said, trained to police, a person can talk, it means they can breathe, he would have a problem with that? >> they are able to breathe at that moment in time