tv Denvers 19th Century Great Healer CSPAN September 17, 2016 4:51pm-6:01pm EDT
>> on history bookshelf, hear best knownuntry's american history writers of the past decade every saturday at eastern. and you can watch any of our programs at any time when you website, c-span.org/history. you're watching american history tv, all weekend, every weekend on c-span3. tv,ext on american history author david wetzel talks about his book, "vanishing messiah: the life and resurrections of francis schlatter." the mist --urrounds talks about the mysteries faith healerhe before he disappeared from denver in 1895.
the kansas city public library hosted this event. it's about an hour and 10 minutes. [applause] david: thank you, crosby, for those very kind words. welcome to the kansas city public library on a beautiful missouri valley sunday. my name is ale paul and i head collectionsal department headquartered just nearbye way in the missouri valley room. the program is made possible by a generous grant from the epidocument for the pleasures and it is my to present david wetzel, the author of the new and intriguingly entitled book the "vanishing messiah: the life and resurrections of francis schlatter." this is a fascinating tale of and religious belief in the american west and although the events played out more than
storyury ago, i think the possesses elements that resonate today. an anonymous figure suddenly enters the public arena and almost and magically captures the attention of the nation. iny of those citizens retrospect may have been gullable but they did possess some unfulfilled needs this character filled. a all have witnessed such phenomenon, without naming names. ofertheless, in these type tales, how many of the characters just as suddenly and literally vanish? this happened with schlatter, disappearing faith healer of the west. david has doggedly tracked down has unraveled much of the mystery and maybe no other scholar could have done this. david comes from and knows the region where shratter performed his miracles. he recently retired from the
inorado historical society denver after 26 years as a editor andtorian, director of the society's programs. he knows the history. he lives a few blocks from this library and is an active supporter of the special collections. is with great pleasure that we have him here to talk about book, please welcome david wetzel. [applause] you, eli.nk i prefer being kind of informal but with a figure who is unknown, virtually, and with the amount of information i have to give, i'm going to be a little an -- formal than i normally would be. me.ou'll bear with it was almost exactly 120 years ago today that the world's
world first discovered francis schlatter found wandering from village to villain in the rio grande valley south of albuquerque. fittingragged, ill clothes, had long, flowing hair, his swollend and on feet he wore an old pair of cut fromse tops were the soles. schlattere francis could be found everywhere in the west in the mid 1890's. thatwere the homeless of era of economic depression. schlatter was different. rumor passed that he raised a child twice to the dead only to lose it a third time. then came reports he healed a simply byvillagers the power of his touch. reporters from the albuquerque democrat went out in search of him. way, they found firsthand that these reporters
true.ers -- reports were someone who was paralyzed in was outs for 16 years working in the fields. velasquez, blind for three years, could now see. when reporters caught up with schlatter, they were discover how much this man reminded them of the biblical image of christ. they learned he was 39 years life-long catholic and a native of france. he had been in the united states years working as a cobbler. in 1892, his travels took him to worked as a he shoemaker for several months. andhat time, clean shaven earnest, i'll give you clean earnest -- schlatter had taken an interest in healing and the spiritualist movement. those who believed that communication with the dead was
possible. one day at his cobbler's bench, a voice came to him out of nowhere telling him to write a friend back east. his arm was paralyzed. schlatter doubted what he heard but the voice came again. he wrote the letter and learned was his friend's paralysis healed. that was the beginning of his mission to go forth and heal through prayer. july 1893, at the behest of voice, schlatter gave up his business and possessions out on a journey that would take him 3,000 miles around the west, all on foot. east across the inorado plains, beginning denver with the blue line. to kansas city, stayed there a few hours, keeping on the line in kansaslroads and city turned south into present-day oklahoma. of hisowed no direction own. he was moving solely at the
thee and direction of father. arguedhe way, schlatter bitterly with the father when it commanded him to beg for food or shelter. by the way, the father, the voice, the master, in some cases, all refer to god, of course, in this case. or to walk an additional five an exhausting day but he always lost these lost the, the cobbler arguments for the purpose of the the humans to chasten will so he could be an instrument of the father. springs, arkansas, the farthest point east in his journey, schlatter was arrested vagrancy and thrown in jail. he remained there five months, by otherm of brutality prisoners and exploitation by his jailers. the end ofhere near his incarceration that he had a vision which foretold a far greater destiny for him than he realized before. he would continue in his
preparation to be a healer but the father's plan encompassed much, much more. him,this vision before schlatter established the hot springs jail and turned west in his pilgrimage. the second part of his journey more of an ordeal than the first. he suffered priivation, exposure and danger walking across texas, new mexico and arizona to southern california. robbed and once threatened with death. yet through all of this he held mission and obeyed the commandments of the father. when he arrived in what is now los angeles, he achieved the to begin strength healing. here, for a time, he remained and performed cures on the indians of the san had a sinto his firstobably attempts at healing. then he took what small funds he boatulated, bought a ticket, and went by boat to
san francisco. there began another arduous the sacramento valley, across the mojave desert with nothing they were not far wrong for when a minister asked schlatter if you were christ, the letter answered, i am. after he arrived in new mexico, he began a fast, the culmination of his preparation to become a healer. when this photograph was taken in an albuquerque studio, he looked pale and thin. although he impressed reporters
as being much taller, he had extraordinarily large hands and he had a massive build when he was in good health into to the came west initially because he was suffering from tuberculosis. he remained in albuquerque as a permanent resident in old town. as he continued fasting heat-treated greater numbers of people and spoke to reporters. reporters took testimonials from people that he treated and his reputation spread across the nation. one of the people came to see him was edward fox, a merchant and former city alderman. he got a neighbor who was nearly blind and schlatter gave him special treatment after regular
sessions. fox was so impressed that he invited schlatter take kerry on his mission in denver to a .reater crowd shallot or agreed to return to the city where he began his pilgrimage but did so when fox said he would pay for the train. however, schlott or had to complete -- schlatter had to complete his fast. the neil astounded those who witnessed it. after having taken nothing but to 11 schlatter sat down friday, seven pieces of cheese, carne, eightons of slices of bread, three pieces of , anden, a slice of cake
four glasses of wine. people expected him to drop dead on the spot but a doctor found that his pulse remained normal. week later, he said goodbye to albuquerque and took the train to denver. he survived the neil but he was very weak. people in small towns gathered at the train depot to be touched by him but because he did not have his strength he began .aking their handkerchiefs this was the first time this had been done in the 19th century. he took their handkerchiefs and return them, maintaining that his power to cure would be just as effective this way. denver, 1895,d in schlatter went to a retreat and refused to see the public.
after that time, he went to the fox home and was boarded by edward fox and his wife and daughter and a nephew. this is a small home. they introduced this stranger into their home and gave him their personal bed. the home was located in northern denver, not far from fox's business. september 16 was the day i announced for him to begin healing at the fox home. 300 people were waiting when he emerged at 9:00 in the morning. within two days the number climbed.
the size of the crowd took him by surprise as did the shoving to get to him. fox quickly built a guardrail parallel to his fence so that people had to move single file past the spot. almost as many people came to watch. up and down the street, long lines of people waiting for treatment. shortly after, vendors with sandwiches and coffee, watermelon. the vendors lent a festive atmosphere but the crowds were full of the solemn and curious. his routine at the fox home did not vrary/ . treat the people in the carriages that were too sick to come to him.
he had a curious method of grasping each person, taking their hands cross ways and then uttering a short prayer to the father. he would spend a minute with each person but as the crowds grew he would often treat three or four people in a minute. when news got around that he could feel -- heal through handkerchiefs, people became in bringing handkerchiefs belonging to people from outside of town. they would answer hundreds of letters every day but these began to pile up so high that he could not keep up. they failed nearly an end -- they filled nearly an entire room in the house. this happens to be the first outer that schlatter sent to come to light.
i expect there will be others. he offered treatments to everybody no matter what their age, social status, or ethnic background. all he required was that they have faith. he was so universal in offering his gift that some claimed he was a fraud for the sole reason that he cannot require a confession of faith. meanwhile, the crowds grew larger. they jumped from an average of -- 1000 a day3000 to 2000-3000. charlie cars bring new arrivals.
there was good reason for this. schlatter had announced that he would be leaving denver for chicago on november 16. as the days of his ministry came to a close, more and more sufferers were from out of state . everybody was desperate to see the healer. .he hotels were packed union station was described as looking like a hospital and people were sitting up all night to get a place in line. on november 13, wednesday, the crowd numbered 5000 people. this was the last day that he was in denver and this picture
-- the caption reads, last hour, but the photographer did not know that. schlatter was, gone two days before his scheduled departure. when the excitement was at his peak, he disappeared. as a crowd of 500 gathered on that morning of november 14, all they saw was a sign posted reading, the healer is gone, we know not where. .he news created outrage hundreds have traveled to see the healer. expectations had been shattered and people felt betrayed. inside the home, edward fox explained to reporters what he knew was his disappearance. he had knocked on the bedroom door that morning and got no response.
schlatter was normally a light sleeper so he tried a few more times. on the bed he found a note. read, my mission is finished, father takes me away, goodbye. fact, however, the note was a deception. edward fox new very well where the healer was. in a conspiracy to get him out of town so that he could be on his way before any reporters found out. the previous eye, fox asked his nephew to pitch a horse and bring it out of the carriage house. leonard was also to bring an unknown white horse. fox and schlatter got into the
andy shielded by the cover joe of past the crowds. past the crowds. -- drove past the crowds. they rode 10 miles to the southeast along cherry creek and their schlatter continued on his torney while fox went back tell the crowd that the healer had disappeared. months and several hundred miles later, they stopped at a mexico, january in new the datil mountains. when the owner saw him, she was stunned. she knew who he was because she had stood in line in october to receive his touch.
she was the daughter of the , william rail engineer raymond morley, who built the santa fe railroad over the raton pass. in built a substantial house what became known as white house canyon and it was an oasis of culture and music. -- children away at college .he was alone except for a cook schlatter told her that the father had directed him to the ranch. when she recovered, she invited him inside and he became a guest for three months. during that time, he and his host had long conversations about religion, politics, economics, and social issues.
she discovered that unlike the simple cobbler that he had been made out to be, he had an impressive wealth of learning and could speak on almost any subject. he had once been a populist and it educated for political reform. he believed that the gap between the rich and poor had become so large that the world was heading for a revolution, not a human revolution. her, wasr, he told planning to destroy the rich, powerful, and privileged. 's and world was heading toward an apocalypse, a war of desolation foretold in the book of daniel. the father called on him to be a messiah of the new age. jerusalem --e new it would be the new jerusalem
and its namesake city would lie in the datil mountains of new mexico. he said that the meaning of his --ion in hot springs earlier it had been a walk for all of humanity. thatct, schlatter confided he was a reincarnation of jesus christ sent to the world with a sword. for the next few months, violence and social disorder prevailed through 1899 when the words of daniel would be for field. the father had directed schlatter to go further into retreat to lose himself in the wilds of old mexico. at the proper time, he would emerge as a god-appointed
leader. she believed him. their conversations convinced her that he was a reincarnated messiah. she implored him to write everything down about his pilgrimage. , she believed, must .now of his sacrifices she also wrote down their conversations and when the time came for him to depart she asked if she could publish it. he agreed and gave it the title that she used. this was to be a gospel of the new age. left in 1896, she walked for a mile and they said the lord's prayer together.
she was afraid for him but he assured her that the father would watch over him. then he said, you will have certain evidence of my death brought to you. the world will laugh at you but reject it and i shall not be dead. i will return to datil. she never saw him again. over the next few months, she worked on her book at the ranch and finished it in denver in 1897. it was published in july but just two weeks before that, news came out of mexico that rendered the gospel of new jerusalem obsolete. the healer was dead. news reports stated that an american prospecting party from el paso in the state of
chihuahua came across a skeleton resting against a tree in the bleached, it's bones white and fully articulated. clothing lay next to it along with a bible, a spanish english dictionary, a memo book , and a copper rod associated with the healer. she had two reasons to doubt the reports. first, she knew as a rancher then freshly dead creatures in animald either human or do not last long in the midst of coyotes. nor do skeletons survive hisuched and she remembered
last words and that which she -- that she was to ignore any evidence so she made plans to go to mexico and see for herself and she was a dedicated woman. she came back convinced that schlatter was alive or did not die at the top of that canyon. everybody knew that schlatter had to missing opportunities and the school -- skull had a full set. believed that schlatter had been at the spot but had received a call from god to abandon his possessions and to anotherleading place. she did not have the answer for the presence of an unknown skeleton, disinterred from a
nearby cemetery or that the entire tableau spoke of a conspiracy to make it appear that the healer had died. despite her investigation nobody believed her. she waited for the final days that schlatter said would come and she earnestly believed in his return. as time went on, she had doubts. allottedhe wrote, the days of daniel will have been numbered by november unless i again take a wrong basis from which to compute. schlatter has spoken the truth. -- he repeatedly told me that he would not die. i am anxious to see that great day for mankind. it will be glorious for his powers will be fast enough to adjust wrongs and depression.
up to the time of her death, 80 morley must have wondered aimlessly about the healer. she knew that the glorious days at they had hoped for had not arrived nor believed in time that it never would but what about francis schlatter? she had to have wondered about his fate. if schlatter did not die in mexico as he told her, where did he go? one possibility is that he dropped out of sight altogether, life of everything in his and career but given his devotion to god, i doubted that. on the other hand, if you try to fulfill the demands of the father, we would that have taken him? book, i look at that possibility. ofinvolves my discovery
remarkable but forgotten books in the library of congress. "modern miracles of healing: a true account of the life, works and wanderings of francis schlatter, the healer." the author was reportedly francis schlatter himself. the question i faced was whether the author is an imposter or the real healer. out, it is a simple question to pose but a complex one to answer. modern miracles can be divided into three parts. in his early life. next, the description of his known career beginning with his emergence in new mexico and ending with his departure in 1896.
last, the story of francis schlatter the author after leaving the ranch until present time, 1903. let's begin at the beginning. it offers a fantastical account of his early life. parentshis alsacian brought him to america in 1858 to tennessee. in fact, documents show that francis schlatter's french alsacian parents died, leaving him an orphan at age 14. then, in 1868, his father dies and his mother mary's and englishmen. later, francis gets
uncomfortable because the tennessee friends he has decent about his psychic powers and he returns to europe, returning in 1884 where he picks up the life of francis schlatter. now let's escape over the career and go to the years after his departure from ada morley's range. he says that his beloved horse after he left drink alkaline water in died on the way to new mexico. his journeybandoned to mexico and made his way to the upper reaches of the ohio starts to walkd down the ohio and mississippi rivers. 1896is in the summer of just a few weeks after leaving new mexico.
all of this would have remained a made up story if he had not mentioned that he was admitted to good samaritan hospital in cincinnati. checked andout, i they had records from that time. they had a record book from that time and earlier. find, ing what i would followed and stopped by the hospital on my journey. it took me a while looking through the books but here is what i found. patient named johnny martin born in columbia, tennessee, had begun a career as an imposter of francis schlatter in 1896. records found since
showing that louisa martin had inen birth to age on margin 1850 nine and other senses records show that the family went from england to canada in 1882, moving to columbia tennessee. of theas a census record course of this family going to tennessee. was, why would john 1896, why not simply say he was born in england? it is a small discrepancy but it made me wonder. martin?it wasn't john who would later become francis schlatter but francis schlatter who took the name john martin
what he was trying to lie low after his deception in mexico? he may have needed time together his wits. the vanishing messiah looks in my struggle over the answer to that question. i propose a hypothesis that begins up the idea that he began -- that he would return in 1899 to establish new jerusalem and why he would decide to take up his nation again in his own name when he could have easily faked his death and weathered the fathers call from the client of security of a mexican village? in this respect it is important to note that he believed deeply in his mission and that his eyes were focused on the father's promise of the new jerusalem to come, not what happened to him
in the world of the present. in other words, schlatter did not care for the world as he saw it or as it saw him but only for the glorious world of new jerusalem as people would regard him in hindsight after 1899. he was destined to be its messiah. if you will, i would like to look at the history of the posthumous francis schlatter and make a case for why he would return to face skepticism, scorn, and rejection. yourld ask you to hold skepticism while i present this hypothesis. this first national moment of attention took place in 1897, two ohio, in days after news came out of mexico that the healer was dead.
he and a friend sat down to breakfast where other borders were discussing the news. margin's friend said to the group, that is very clear. i wast is very queer, under the impression that he is still alive, alumni to introduce to you francis schlatter. through the months and years has followed, the man who spent a few days in good samaritan hospital never used any other name but francis schlatter. in time, he let his hair grow longer and cultivated a substantial beard. just like the original healers and it seemed as if you were growing into the part. he had blue eyes, stood the same height and had the same large ,ands that grasped his patients all something that he could have known from a newspaper.
but, especially in the wake of the newr's death, schlatter faced skepticism and scrutiny from reporters and officials. in chicago, in particular, the tribune in the city denver writes to make a comparison -- denverites to make a comparison. while the new healer seemed to be better dressed and more elegant, others recall that schlatter's hands were rough while the new healer's were long and tapered. reporter spoke about the air of falsity in the posthumous healer
. there is a visible attempt to act up to his role, the faraway look in which he attempts to divine cutera becomes a commonplace looking man. surveying with indifferent contempt because of the afflicted he is victimizing. the healer seemed to demonstrate that arrogance. when another skeptic asked if he schlatter said, i am not a christ but christ was a schlatter. almost everything he did went contrary to one -- to what one would expect of an imposter. the new healer seemed intent on making himself the anti-schlatter and doing it in a self-consciously.
it made me wonder, francis schlatter warned that they would be false prophets in his name and that ada morley shouldn't or them, and that prediction had a 100% accuracy rate. -- after carrying his healing message throughout the midwest, the healer and his manager went to atlanta and birmingham. reporters took note of his characteristics and one --gested that he had used that he and his manager were effeminate and spoke with a peculiar twang. in georgia, witnesses were and one of the witnesses they spoke to unlike
most of them who discounted the fraud said that he had seen schlatter in denver and he had noted an imperceptible mark on the right side of the healers knows. this man had the same mark. the comment went largely unnoticed but nobody at the time could have known that a canton woman had written back home that aar from denver and given rare detailed physical description of the healer which mentioned a mark on the side of his nose. turned toa healer birmingham in what became his last ministry. there, he married a woman who had been a healer and was considered a rival. she lived in chicago but was
visiting her hometown. within days, schlatter proposed and they were married secretly. he never returned to birmingham or to his manager. the two of them got married and became a healing team that wanted around the country. country.ed around the their marriage began to deteriorate quickly. within nine months, in the fall of 1899, her husband threatened to jump out of a window in chicago. suicide is this unknown but it was a preamble to a pattern of erratic behavior and drunkenness. they fought and separated then returned to continue their ministry but an episode in new york in 19 oh one led to a marriage crisis. police were called to there a
fireman they found her with her eyes blanket and a drunken husband raving that he was the messiah. she was committed to saint elizabeth hospital in washington dc but when doctors found him to be saying and released him levered a flight back to new york city. he followed her and stalking her, he was arrested and committed to a work house. the jailers cut his hair and beard and when he learned that she had taken a divorce papers he lost all hope. he wandered aimlessly from town to town but nobody paid attention to him. they used to think i looked like christ, he said, and that gave them faith. with my hair gone and the divorce, i am a broken man.
friends and family told her that she had married an imposter but she did not listen to them and he was authentic. his behavior to her in new york but her to the point of actually leaving for good. as a last measure, she traveled to denver and matt with mary fox. conversation which nobody will ever know about that of irna returned from denver to her husband with her faith renewed in the fact that he was the real francis schlatter. that timeed at something new that he write his autobiography improved to the world that he was the real francis schlatter. 1903, he and in produced the book we have been
talking about, modern miracles of healing, an effort to prove himself as part of the launch of the couple announced that denverer would return to to address his critics casting aside lingering doubts about his authenticity. he never showed up. hindsight, we can see by the man who wrote it did not attempted to return to denver jubilantly and the evidence is in the book itself. modern miracles is a remarkable book in many respects to one of its distinguishing features is that it undermines the three words in the title, a true account. truth and falsehood vie with each other in this book and they embrace each other in the same way. francis said of schlatter he was one of the purest of men but there was cunning in him.
that dichotomy is apparent throughout the book but no more than in this respect, its author give a description of his pilgrimage around the west that .efied all reason while the original schlatter followed a path guided by the miracles -- the route looked like the wanderings of a drunken man. and yet, there is a more subtle piece of evidence suggesting the author was not a native speaker of english. idiomatic expressions for into the english tongue and what one linguist called an interference of german appears quite unconsciously in the book. francis schlatter spent days studying english but never mastered it in terms of
structure or accident. are many about the identity of the man from good samaritan hospital and many things can be said about the physical and behavioral characteristics of francis .chlatter and john margin -- john margin. here is a hypothesis that i find plausible. schlatter based his prophecy of armageddon on the book of daniel and in chapter nine versus 24-27, a series of weeks precedes the war of desolation that daniel speaks of and during this time according to the king james version, messiahs shall be cut off but not for himself. schlatter may have interpreted this passage to mean that he would supposedly die, go in hiding, and return in 1899 to establish new jerusalem.
interim between 1897-1899 , he would be living in a suspended state in terms of the way he might have thought about it. not able to reclaim his identity as the original healer but also not ready for his divine personhood at the beginning of new jerusalem, the best way to play that part was to become a false prophet in the dying world of the present while laying out a history of scorn and abuse to show the people of new jerusalem what he had suffered as he walked in the footsteps of christ. in the space of a few months in 1899, the messiah's vision collapsed. nothing earth shattering occurred that year. the only wars where the border
war and american action -- the boer war and the philippine -- and american action in the i waspines in world war 15 years in the future. everything he prophesies had come to naught and he was left with nothing but the damning evidence of his death in mexico. the dress, he had to disassociate himself from the messiah of denver and nothing even hinted of the book of daniel -- the war of desolation to come for the new jerusalem. thehis intelligence even in improvisational act of dictating his book to a friend allowed him to chart a narrow course between truth and falsehood that kept -- followersoyals loyal while his older followers in the west that the messiah was dead.
of course, he did not return to denver. not because he would have been shown to be an imposter but because his deceit may have been exposed and his reputation ruined. the last 20 years of schlatter's life were marked by continuing marital troubles including an actual divorce and remarriage and periods in which he gave appealing to try other things but only to return to his true calling. he never gave up his devotion or .abits of wondering -- wondering. -- wandering. she found herself searching for husband when she learned that he died in st. louis with an unknown woman who disappeared as soon as the local doctor came.
the woman was most likely a spiritualist nurse who i been taking care of him that the to accused her on -- the woman of murder. a cold's report concluded that the man had died of an acute condition of pulmonary tuberculosis. his wife was average because her husband's body had not been involved and he was embalmed and he was unable to bring himself back to life. she left st. louis with instructions to bury him in miami but something went wrong at his body remained in the funeral home for the next 25 years. bodies, itwith other went into a common grave in the municipal cemetery and was removed with the other unknowns
to mount lebanon cemetery west of st. louis on what used to be houston avenue. schlatter told people that he would disappear and return in a different form. i contend that when he left ada morley's ranch, he walked out of history as one of the greatest healers only to return as a counterfeit of himself. that was his destiny and his personal tragedy. thank you. [applause] >> we have microphones available for questions. can you tell us anything about wereclass or ethnic lines
followed with his followers? were they of a particular type of -- david: they were all lower. socialites in denver wrote about it. at that time, it was the height of the economic depression following the silver crisis in 1892. they were homeless people. they were of all classes and types. there was a german family who i wrote about who brought beer and sandwiches to eat to wait in line to the envy of other people. -- the few ihs have shown, many show crowds. there is a wide range of variety.and social
as well as that he healed people who are brought from indian reservations. people who were brought in from the colorado state mental hospital. there was nobody he turned away and it was clear that some of evangelicalditional -like ministers were upset with this because he did not ask for a confession of faith -- he would heal anybody. >> i read that he left because
he was upset that people were paying to purchase places in line. david: yes. was that heotion disappeared because he was angry with the materialism and the fact that people were selling their places in line or were paying to move closer. they would have small boys who would be paid a few dollars to stand in line at 4:00 in the morning for others to come in the afternoon. was an idea that this was why he disappeared, that was current at the time and promoted by friends. offended by that,
he would have left within a week. he disappeared because he had a mission to disappear. he knew he was going to walk out of history because he believed he would be walking into a timeless era. it wasn't and times believe. times belief.nd >> is there any evidence that he actually healed people? david: yes, there is. , many reporters who stood to his left when people were moving through the line and they would see what reaction people had when he touched them. he never asked what they had. would cling onto
these people if they showed that they would throw away their crutches and walk. one of the most telling episodes was a woman who had boils on over her face and as the reporters were interviewing her, the disappeared. , i put myself in problemon if i have a and i need a healer to deal with it and i'm standing in front of 2000 people and i have stood in line for six hours and i'm coming up to a christlike figure , what kind of emotional psychological psychosomatic effect might that have? most of the people who he claimed to have healed had ,heumatoid arthritis are pains
that sort of thing. there was one dramatic healing -- where ar-old 12-year-old daughter of a wyoming national guard had been blinded in one eye and after schlatter treated her, her father wrote a note that she read having her hand over the good guy. it was quite dramatic and there were a few episodes of that. ?nybody else does anybody want to challenge my hypothesis? [laughter] to ask about the relic that was at the skeleton, the staff. what happened to that? the copper rod that , he hadr had with him
forged it in denver and he took it back to new mexico and it became widely known as he was traveling to new mexico. he used a presumably for exercise and when he was crossing the border into mexico -- and he did cross the border. ranch and thea ranchers asked what it was for and he spun around and let it fly and he said where the rod landed and direction appointed with the direction where the father wanted him to go. of course, it pointed south, because he was going to mexico. there is an entering story about the rod. edgar hewitt, a well-known
archaeologist who became the director of the museum of new and the center for housedn research, both in the palace of the governors ansanta fe, he was on exploration in new mexico in 1906 and he ran across what was presumed to be the unburied gravesite of francis schlatter and he learned from his guide what the guide said about having seen this man 10 years earlier as a boy, hewitt came to realize that this was francis schlatter and in the village of casas grandes, he got the rod. he came back 17 years later and
then he offered to pay the village mayor money to hire a schoolteacher in exchange for the rod. the rod is now in the museum of new mexico, the new mexico history museum. it was on display for a while but now it has gone back into the collection. i will not tell you it's significance at this point. >> why don't you think he could ?eal himself of tuberculosis why do you think he cannot heal himself of tuberculosis in whatever he was in the hospital for? david: there are a lot of discrepancies in history, continuities. spiritual things. why couldn't heal himself?
um, i don't know. [laughter] i don't know. his wife believed he could heal himself of death, could bring himself back to life but not after he had been enbalmed. years tody, the 22 have that stay there, did you learn why it took so long for them to find it? david: yes. in 1945 -- just when the european war was ending , st. louis officials found several unburied bodies throughout the city. some of them were in warehouses. this one was in the basement of the funeral home.
apparently, at that time, in the 1920's, the bodies had a powerful involving fluid because newspaper-- body accounts had it was very well preserved. i think he was just a lapse in professional standards in mortuaries. wife whoknow why his actually had arranged to have the body taken to miami for back or neverent went to the grave but i think would happen is that she may have been told that it had been destroyed somehow accidentally. i cannot believe that she would simply walk away.
>> was there any financial ?enefit that he received david: he refused any offer of money or gifts. ,hen people forced money on him in one case, there is a rumor that he took whatever dollar and give it to somebody who was poor. he lived at the hands of people who took care of them, the foxes, people in albuquerque. this is one of the reasons why most people believe that the second francis schlatter, john martin, could not have been the original because he took coins
and he paid his managers and one of the reasons he was kicked out of one town is that the city , if you have to pay managers, why should we be funding that? schlatter, the original -- he lived as st. francis of assisi would have lived. does that answer your question? , he lived inords the same way that christ did, he never took money. david: yes, he lived with a vow of poverty. how well publicized -- this is the first time i have ever
think that that would have been well known all over the world. at that time, things didn't travel that fast. david: why wasn't he that well-known? >> all over the universe -- david: because he walked out, he disappeared. this was a conscious decision he made. when the news came out that he was dead, the book that ada morley prepared, the gospel of null,w age, was virtually because it's christ did not return. so i think, for a period of time otherre were several
imposters who took his name and i talk about them in the book in one of the reasons he may have been rejected was because he is in the company of several. that period of time from the 1922of-the-century until when he died, a number of these people were wandering around the country, creating. sensational stories about their ,cts and after the last of them during the 1930's, almost nothing. it was only after world war ii and people started looking back at francis schlatter and what happened is that ovary period --
until theer a period 1990's, there may have been, every 5-10 years, an article in a newspaper, magazine, chapters in books would come out on him and there would be a flurry of excitement and it would die down. one of the reasons why that because nobody who had written about him really addressed why he disappeared, really loved at what his motives were -- even if you discount the idea that he may have come back, nobody spoke about the intense ideology prophetic that he had and i drove him him that made him promise ada morley that he would return. attending.u all for
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