Skip to main content
Internet Archive's 25th Anniversary Logo

tv   Hearing on Global Threats  CSPAN  February 14, 2016 10:30am-12:21pm EST

10:30 am
it is not a moneymaking committee. the right usually a fair amount of people on both health and tenets died. they will still be there next year and we could see a different task of -- different cast of characters on that committee, especially in the house side where there is more volatility from elections. the democrats that when the senate back, select the change as well -- so that could change as well. >> thank you for being our guest on newsmakers, this week. today we show you last night's cbs debate with the republican presidential candidates. it at 4:00 p.m. eastern on c-span -- it begins at 4:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> the best presidents, the greatest presidents have been willing to recognize they were not the smartest person in the surround themselves
10:31 am
with people they felt were smarter. q and a, former secretary of defense and former director of the cia robert gates discusses his book. he has served under several presidents, most recently, george w. bush and barack obama. at the -- >> at the end of the cold war, i came to believe very strongly that the american people had given the cia a pass on a lot of things because of this exit essential conflict with the soviet union. i believe that after the end of the cold war, we would have to be more open about what we did and why we did it and even to extent, how we did it to help the american people better understand why intelligence was important to the government and to presidents and why presidents
10:32 am
valued it. >> tonight on c-span. >> on tuesday, intelligent -- intelligence community leaders testify before the senate intelligence committee on global threats to the u.s., including the islamic state, north korea's nuclear provocation, russian aggression and drug trafficking. cia directorlude john brennan, fbi director james comey, defense intelligence agency director vincent stewart. this is almost two hours.
10:33 am
>> i would like to call this hearing to order and welcome our witnesses, director of national intelligence james clapper, director of central intelligence agency john brennan, director of defense intelligence agency, vincent stewart, director of the federal bureau of investigation, jim komi and director of the national security agency, admiral rogers. director klapper and general stewart have already appeared before the senate armed services committee and i appreciate you suffering through a long day of testimony. i also think our other attendants. today's hearing presents an opportunity for both the witnesses and members of the committee. it is my hope that our discussion will shed some light on the dedicated and tireless work of our intelligence
10:34 am
community. the men and women represented by eyewitnesses -- by our witnesses. their work does not go unnoticed. i spent the better part of 20 years as a part of the intelligence committee and have seen the scales go -- the scales of types of threats to our nation evolve. we no longer live in a world defined by a few distinct threats. -- a range of actors from nationstates and homegrown violent extremists. in your statement, director clapper quote of the expertise of the extraordinary men and women. the value you lay out to our benefit in a decentralized system of threats that imperil this nation and its interests across the globe.
10:35 am
i ask that everyone take a moment to reflect on the range of expertise required to make sense of this information. thate in your statement cyber and technology headliner global threats. -- headlined your global threats. -- we will have significant consequences on societies way of life and more specifically, how your officers perform their mission. i look forward to your highlighting some of the challenges and consequences as you see them. by theremain concerned technological reach of isil and the danger of their using the information technology social media and research patent -- capabilities we use every day to propagate their eric message. -- their barbaric message. i do hope you will layout that
10:36 am
particular threat and i thank you again for being here. i would like to holly -- highlight my colleagues that the committee will hold a classified hearing on worldwide threats, later this week to the degree it needs saying, please reserve any questions that you think might not be appropriate for an open session until the thursday hearing. with that, i welcome our witnesses here and i turned to the vice-chairman fernie comments she might have. >> thank you very much -- for any comments she might have. i thank you very much and i think our witnesses and the intelligence community for its service to this country. i also share your sentiment that this hearing is important to help explain to the american people the threats that face this nation and the efforts of the dedicated men and women of the intelligence community to keep us safe.
10:37 am
i want to open my comments by recognizing the significant contributions made by you, director clapper, as the leader of this community. you are the longest-serving director of national intelligence to date and i think most -- both the chairman and i remember when the dni was developed and put into effect, you are -- you're capable stewardship of the community has driven it to be a more integrated and capable organization than at any time in history. i want to personally thank you the contributions you have made to this country's security. as you know, there is no rest for the weary. the threats that face this nation and our allies seem only to grow. the syrian war is approaching its fifth year, yet bashar al-assad is still in power and a refugee crisis is destroying the
10:38 am
lives of millions of innocent families and wreaking havoc across europe. we are witnessing the resurgence of an unpredictable russia in eastern europe and syria. north korea, last month conducted its nuclear bomb test and two days ago, conducted what it called a space launch. of course, this is a thinly veiled test to develop missiles that could deliver weapons of mass instruction against a number of countries, including the united states. while these threats are significant and troubling, we are all deeply concerned about the threat from i sold, the is the islamic isis, state from iraq and iran and other terrorist. roots to us, isis is much more than a regional threat. army,a terrorist armor -- a global exporter of terrorism.
10:39 am
the official count is 11, including isis affiliates. some of our friends like the king of jordan have said there are as many as 17 countries and isis has the ability to spread its message of hate and violence around the world using social media in a very sophisticated way. director klapper, i have read your written comments and i'm interested in your assessment of these global threats. your status today and the outlook for the future. i would also ask you to comment on how the intelligence community is positioned to address these threats. is it better today than it was five years ago? for instance, well the coalitions campaign is helping some territorial safe havens and financial resources, how do we degrade and destroy it, and all they need to
10:40 am
carry out an attack in the west is an internet connection and encrypted message application? i would like to hear your assessments of how the rise of end to end description has impacted our nation's ability to identify and track individuals who seek to do us harm. director call me has spoken of this concern often. director rogers highlighted it as well. i'm interested in your views about its impact and how you recommend we tackle this problem of terrorists and criminals communicating the of these encrypted message application. the u.s. freedom act that passed last year a limited the book collection of telephone communications and the new law now requires specific clearance with buys a court approval to individual telecommunication companies.
10:41 am
as this change affect -- has this change affected your ability to discover new threats and relationships? i will save the rest of my comments or questions, but thank you very much for being here and we look forward to the discussion. >> thank you vice-chairman. before i recognize director klapper, let me say to members, it is my intent that all members will be recognized for five minutes in the order that you exception, ifone there is no objection, when director clapper's testimony is over, i like to recognize senator langford for the first set of questions for the simple reason that on tuesday, he asked to resign over the senate and he ,as to reside at 3:20, today and i like to let him get a set of questions in. with that, the floor is yours, director clapper. first, thank you very much
10:42 am
for the intelligent, particularly of the great men and women of the u.s. intelligence community, whom we represent. it is appropriate that you do that for the great work that they do. meta-vice-chairman, thank you for pillaging my long service, that is very gracious. we are here to update you on some but not all of the pressing intelligence and national security issues facing our nation, many of which you both alluded to, so it will be a certain amount of echo. in the interest of time and getting to questions, we will cover some of the tops and mine will be the only opening statements so we can get to your questions. i apologize in advance to the crossover members who are here.
10:43 am
as i said last year, i predicted on stability has become the new normal and this trend will continue for the foreseeable future. violent extremists are operationally active in about 40 countries, seven countries are experiencing a collapse of central government authority. countries raise a significant risk of instability through 2016. a record level of migrants, more than one million, arriving in europe is likely to grow this year. migration and displacement will strain countries in europe, asia, africa and the americas. there are 60 million people worldwide considered displaced. change,weather, climate environmental that relation, rising demand for food and water, poor policy decisions and inadequate infrastructure will magnify this instability. and aious diseases
10:44 am
vulnerability in the global supply chain for medical countermeasures will continue to pose threats. the zika virus first acted in the western hemisphere in 2014 has reached the u.s. and is projected to cause up to 4 million cases in this hemisphere. i want to briefly comment on both technology and cyber, specifically. innovation during the next few years will have an even more significant impact on our way of life. this innovation is central to our economic prosperity, but will bring new security vulnerabilities. tensnternet will connect of billions of new devices that could be exploited. artificial intelligence will enable computers to make autonomous decisions about data and physical systems and eventually disrupt labor markets. russia and china continue to have the most sophisticated cyber programs. china continues cyber espionage against the united states, iraner the commitment --
10:45 am
and north korea continue to conduct cyber espionage as they enhance their attack capabilities. nonstate actors also pose cyber threats. isis has used cyber to his advantage, to hack and release sensitive information about u.s. military personnel. actor, isise displays unprecedented online provisions the. cyber criminals remain the most pervasive cyber threat to the financial sector. they use cyber to conduct theft, extortion and other activities. and terrorism, there are no more sunni my with extremist members in safe havens than in any other time in history. the rate of foreign fighters traveling to comment zones in the past year is without precedent. at least 38,200 foreign fighters, including at least
10:46 am
6900 from foreign countries have traveled to area from at least 120 countries since the beginning of conflict in 2012. as we saw in the paris attacks, they pose a dangerous operational threat. demonstrated sophisticated attack tactics and tradecraft. they have a established and several more establishing branches. they have attempted or conducted scores of attacks outside of syria and iraq in the last 15 and their estimated strength globally now exceeds that --. their leaders are determined to strike in the u.s. homeland, beyond inspiring homegrown violent extremist attacks. although the u.s. is a harder target than europe, isis external operations remain a critical factor in our threat assessment. al qaeda's affiliates have also proven resilient despite
10:47 am
counterterrorism pressure that is largely decimated the core leadership in afghanistan and pakistan, al qaeda affiliates are positioned to make gains in 2016. the chapter in syria are the 1 -- the increased use by violent extremists of encrypted and secure mobile-based technology has enabled actors to go dark and serves to undercut intelligence and law enforcement efforts. a ron continues to be the foremost state sponsor of terrorism and exert its in lawrence in regional crises in the middle east through the islamic revolutionary guard. hezbollah and proxy groups as well. iran and hezbollah continue to be a terrorist threat to partners worldwide. we saw the threat posed in the in the attacks in
10:48 am
chattanooga and send regina. in 2014, the fbi arrested nine isis supporters and in 2015, that number increased over five old. north korea continues to conduct test activities of concern to the u.s.. on saturday evening, pyongyang anducted a satellite launch a subsequent claim that the satellite was successfully placed in orbit. additionally, last month, they conducted their last there's their fourth nuclear test, claiming it was a hydrogen bomb. nucleartinue to produce material and test launches of ballistic missiles. they are also committed to developing a long-range nuclear armed missile capable of threatening the u.s., although the system has not been flight tested. despite its economic challenges, russia continues its aggressive military modernization program. it has the largest and most
10:49 am
capable foreign nuclear arms force. it has developed a crews -- hell that china continue to modernize its nuclear missile force and is driving for a secure second strike capability. continues to profess a no first use doctrine. plan ofn cap or has a action over jc poa provides us much greater transparency in iran's missile production. increases the time iranians would need to produce highly enriched uranium from a few months to about a year. they probably views the jcp oa as a means to remove sanctions while preserving some nuclear capability. their perception of how the jcp away houses achieves its overall -- strategic goals will dictate its level of adherence or compliance to the agreement over time. chemical weapons convention pose a threat in syria and iraq.
10:50 am
isis has used toxic chemicals in iraq and syria, including the blister agent sulfur mustard. grouprst time a extremist has created and used a chemical weapon since 1995. engaged ins are now the space domain. will understand how the military fights and how heavily rely on space. they are pursuing constructive and destructive anti-satellite systems. china continues to make progress on its anti-satellite vessel program. counterintelligence, the threat from foreign intelligence entities, both state and nonstate is persistent, complex and evolving. targeting a collection of u.s. military, political and technical information by foreign intelligence services continues unabated.
10:51 am
russia and china pose the greatest threat followed by iran and cuba on a dutch on a lesser scale as will as a threat from insiders taking advantage of their access to collect and remove sensitive national security information will remain a persistent challenge. with respect to transnational organized crime, i want to touch on one crime issue, specifically drug trafficking. southwest border seizures of heroin in the u.s. has doubled since 2010. died of000 people heroin overdoses in the u.s. in 2014. much of it laced with methanol which is 30 to 50 times more potent than heroin. 28,000 died from opiate overdoses and cocaine production in colombia has increased significantly. that may move through a future regional issues -- a few regional issues. chinese leaders are dealing with much slower economic growth.
10:52 am
chinese leaders have also embarked on a most ambitious military reform in their history. regional tension will continue as china pursues construction and its outposts in the china sea. russia has demonstrated its military capabilities to protect itself as a global power, command respect from the west, maintain domestic support for the regime and advanced russian interests. locally. moscow's objectives in the ukraine will remain unchanged, including maintaining long-term influence over gf and frustrating his attempts to integrate into western institutions. putin is the first leaders and stalin to expand russia's territory. leader since: to expand russia's territory -- sense stalin to expand russia's territory. -- demonstrate the improvements in russian military capabilities and the crowd once confidence in using them.
10:53 am
. bases the reality of economic recession driven by falling oil prices as well as sanctions. russia's nearly 4% gdp contraction last year will extend well into 2016. in the mid east and south asia, there are more cross-border military operations underway in the mideast region than any time since 1973 arab-israeli war. and iso forces in iraq would make incremental gains in the spring. isis is now somewhat on the defensive in its territory and manpower are striking, but it remains a formidable threat. in syria, pro-regime forces have the initiative, mating -- making strategic gains in the north as well as in southern syria. continueshortages will to undermine the syrian regime's ability to accomplish strategic battlefield objectives.
10:54 am
the opposition has less equipment and firepower and its groups like unit -- unity, having competing battlefield interests. me well, some 250,000 people have been killed as this war has dragged on. the humanitarian situation in syria continues to deteriorate as of last month, there are approximately 4.1 million refugees displaced with together represent about one half of syria's pre-conflict population. december despite the form of a new government and national core, socially authority across the country will be difficult at best with hundreds of militia groups operating throughout the country. isis has established its most developed branch outside of city -- syria in libya and maintains a presence in other areas of the
10:55 am
country. the conflict will probably remain stalemated released may 2016, meanwhile, isis affiliates have exploited the conflict of government to recruit character -- territorial control. the -- iran deepened its involvement in the syrian and iraqi -- . iran's supreme leader continues to view the united states as a main threat. with as his views will not change despite the implementation of the jcp away and the release of the 10 u.s. sailors. asia, afghanistan is at serious risk of a political breakdown during 2016.
10:56 am
waning political cohesion, increasingly assertive local power brokers, financial shortfalls and sustained taliban stability. eroding there are many more threats to the u.s. interests worldwide and we can address, both of which are covered in the statement for the record, but i. this litany of doom and open it to your questions. before i do, i want to answer one question that that of vice chairman asked about the state of the community now versus five years ago. weould like to think that are better as a community just from the simple proposition of something greater than the parts because we operate as an integrated enterprise and others may have a problem with that and none of them are unwilling to disagree with me, but that is my view. >> thank you for the testimony. thatind all members
10:57 am
everybody at the witness table is available for questions directed at them. i remind people back home because in oklahoma, we are extremely grateful for many folks in the armed services that service every single day, we byognize them and he them the uniforms, but i remind them there were people in the intelligence community they won't recognize and they will never see and be able to thank. please pass on our gratitude. director klapper, you said in your 50 years in the intelligence business, he can't recall a more diverse array of challenges and you graced us with a long list of doom as you space,it whether that be islamiceration, terrorism, i want to focus on one area specifically and that is narcotics and the movement
10:58 am
into our country and what we deal with on a day-to-day basis as a challenge. you had mentioned you thought the focus should be more on interdiction, so my challenge is, for this route and my interest, what are we doing on the intel gathering? some of thesehat narcotics are moving into the united states and how we cooperate with agencies. challenges and indicated this morning and i harken back to a series of testimonies by general kelly, the former commander -- in which he made the point that we did have a great deal of intelligence on drug flow into the united states, the challenge has been the lack of resources sometimes to react to it, to actually interdict.
10:59 am
in one sense, i think that is a commercial for more operational assets to respond. i am a big fan of the coast guard and i think the coast guard has done some great work. the employment of these new which has acutters national security component to it, has had a dramatic impact when they have been able to be employed, so to me, the big thing here is the operational resource to respond. i think the community works very well together on the issue of drugs, drug intelligence and facilitating interdiction. >> any comments from any other leaders? let me move on. there as been a lot of conversation about libya and isis and their movement into other areas they call provinces
11:00 am
and moving all around the world. really has been especially large in that. what you think is isis intentions in libya? >> i think it is not unlike what they have done in syria and iraq. is its unique about isis possession and control over territory. that has been the case in syria and iraq and that presents a certain vulnerability when they assume the traits of a nationstate. i think it is their goal in libya, essentially an ungoverned space and access to a substantial oil resource, just as they had in syria. i think there is some commonality. of centered or headquartered in search which is
11:01 am
in the center of the coast of libya and they are trying to spread out along the coast and take over more and more areas. they are present as i indicated in my statement in the major cities, notably benghazi and triply. about mentioned as well iran being the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. since theou seen that signing of the jcp away. and you seen a change in their behavior toward sponsoring terrorism? >> i have not seen a change in the behavior. they are kind of consumed with ,he situation in iraq and syria as well as supporting human. they had -- that has been the , not to sayinantly they are not interested elsewhere, but that is where the focus of their efforts have
11:02 am
been. andou mention of the rent about 100 40 missiles launched by iran in violation of the human agreement and two additional in just the last few months. any change in behavior you have seen in their testing of ballistic missiles? you're exactly right, that is what i said that since 2010 and the propagation of the un security council resolution in 1929, they have fired off about 140 missiles, about half of which took place during the onetiations, they launched october and in november which i think was a message that they are still going to continue to develop what is already a very robust missile force. >> thank you, i yield back. >> the chair recognizes himself or a couple of questions. director komi. what is the risk to law enforcement and prosecution it
11:03 am
when presented a legal court order, a company refuses to provide the communications that the court has ordered them to? >> the risk is that we will not be able to make the case and i bet guy -- and a bad guy will go free. can you set a percentage of how many of that is terrorism and how much of that fear is law enforcement and prosecution that takes place in every town in america? problem, we call growing useis the of encryption, both to lock devices when they sit there and to cover communications as they move over fiber-optic cables is -- overwhelmingly effective law enforcement because it affects cops and prosecutors and
11:04 am
detectives trying to make murder cases, car accident cases, kidnapping cases, drug cases, it has an impact on the national security work. this would include pornography and the list goes on and on which i think would be consensus in america that it that's carried out, that if a court certifies that the reason is there, that a company ought to then produce that information. >> especially with respect to devices, phones that default lock. concernthe overwhelming because all of our lives are becoming increasingly digital, those devices are going to fall the evidence of child pornography, to indication someone made before they were killed or went missing, the evidence that would be necessary to stall -- solve a crime, this includes things like car
11:05 am
accidents. when you find a device that cannot be opened, even though the judge said this -- there is probable cause to open it. a verynardino is important investigation to us, we still have one phone we have not been able to open. it has been over two months and we are still working on it. it has also occurred on the criminal side. a woman murdered in louisiana last summer, no clue as to who did it except her phone is found, they cannot open it, so the case remains unsolved. this is the case all of the country. >> is it safe to say that if companies were required to honor that court order that law enforcement and the prosecution element, it is not concerned at all about how they access that, that can be dietary and within each country, but supplying the information is absolutely crucial to the continuation of
11:06 am
that investigation and prosecution. >> that is one of the aspects of the conversation. there is a healthy debate going on but a part of it gets confusing is when folks talk like we want access to company servers, we want access to their what weode, but will -- -- what we would like is where people can comply with court orders. do, companiesies that make phones can unlock them what a judge orders it. others can't, and therein lies the problem. is not about us trying to get a backdoor, a term that confuses me. i don't want a door or a window, i would like people to comply with orders and that is the kind of conversation we are trying to have. >> thank you very much. vice-chairman. >> i would like to ask a question if i may. subject libya, how does the cia
11:07 am
assess isis intrusion into libya? >> we see libya as the most important theater outside of the syrian and iraqi theater. they have absorbed some of the groups inside of libya, including sharia which was very accident -- active. libya has been a place where -- this form of extremism has grown up over the years. as the borders of the area were being tightened down, we know that some of those foreign fighters started to divert into libya, so libya has become a magnet for individuals not only inside, but from the afghan confident as well as outside. it is a real issue and problem, but we see isis in libya as a very important hub for isis activities. >> assessment on north korea.
11:08 am
we know that they possess anywhere from 10 to 20 uranium and plutonium weapons. we now have seen the recent the -- capable of reaching the united states, and then there is the 10 aoa. anddo you assess korea leaders' intentions with what he is doing with respect to these tests and the development of both of a plutonium and uranium strain of weapons? at the it is obvious that kim jong-un is trying to demonstrate that he has capability in terms of the nuclear tests as well as ballistic missile and intercontinental missile capability that he wants to showcase as a way to demonstrate his strength, but also as a way to help market some of his
11:09 am
capabilities. it is something that is a key concern to the intelligence community as a whole and is a priority collection area but the assessment from my perspective bothat he has developed the nuclear capability as well as developing this ballistic missile capability, brought them together so that he can demonstrate that he has reached far beyond the korean peninsula. >> third question. how do you assess the taliban and al qaeda in afghanistan? how much of the territory of afghanistan day is controlled by the taliban? >> is a difficult question to address because a lot of times, the taliban controls certain areas and its dynamic and fluid. they will take various government and military outpost, then pull back. large parts of the country that
11:10 am
fall under their influence, we have worked very closely with to afghan military services try to concentrate their focus on areas that need to be protected whether it is critical infrastructure, cities, transit and transportation routes, but as you know, the taliban control a lot of terrain outside of the central government's reach and al qaeda continues to have a president -- presence, particularly in the eastern part of afghanistan and a continued to work with the taliban as well as the economy's. haqqani's. >> my view is you cannot have passionate debate in this room without the great work that the men and women of the intelligence community due to preserve our freedom. i want to start by saying we are grateful for that.
11:11 am
director brandon, in 2014, the cia conducted in a -- unauthorized search of senate files, including the e-mails of senate staff, investigating the cia's use of torture. the cia inspector general later stated that the search involved in proper agency access to send files and a review board that you appointed concluded that the search resulted in inappropriate access to the committee's work product. you initially denied -- that the search took place in reports to both your inspector general and the review board. this denial was at odds with the after they were publicly exposed, the cia even wrote an apology letter that you did not send. senior officials from the nsa, the fbi and the office of the director of national intelligence have all testified that it would be inappropriate for their agencies to secretly search sent files without external authorization. we still have not gotten an
11:12 am
acknowledgment from you. i think it would be important and i would like to hear from you and set the record straight that this would never happen again. would you agree that the cia 2014 search of senate files was improper? this is the annual threat assessment, is it not? i think as you well know, there were unique circumstances associated with this whole affair. these were cia computers at a cia waste facility with a cia network that was shared between senate staffers, conducting the investigation for your report as well as cia personnel. when it became obvious to cia personnel that senate staffers had unauthorized access to an internal draft document of caa, it was an obligation on the part of cia officers responsible that
11:13 am
-- responsibilities for the security of that network to investigate and see what the reason for that access. the united that investigation, i spoke to the chairman and vice chairman about it, i try to make sure they understood what the challenge was that we had, we conducted the investigation. , then referred them to the ig whether senate leadership was concerned about the actions of cia officers. i also convene and accountability for and i think if you were to read those reports, including the accountability board, you would see that it was determined that the actions of the cia were reasonable, given the very unclear and unwritten or unspecific understanding between the committee and cia at the time. >> my time is short, but that's not what the inspector general --
11:14 am
>> i respectfully disagree. >> i want to read the exact words of the review board. resulted in any appropriate access to assess work products and your inspector general reached the same conclusion and so, the question here is, when you are talking about spying on a committee, responsible for overseeing your agency, in my view, that undermines the very checks and balances that protect our democracy and it unacceptable in a free society and your compatriots in all of the sister agencies agreed with that. you disagree? theou mischaracterized reports and i apologize to the chairman and vice chairman about the access and inappropriate access to say officers made 25 e-mails of senate chapters -- senate chapters in debt senate
11:15 am
staffers.- senate we were filling our responsibilities. of thead the exact words inspector general and the exact words of the review board that you appointed. they said nobody ought to be punished, but they said there was improper access and my point is, in our system of government, we have responsibilities to do your is oversight and we can't do vigorous oversight if there are improper procedures used to access our files and my time is up. i would say do you not agree that it was improper access that senate staffers had to cia servers. everything that we determined they did was appropriate, but i asked about the cia conduct into reviews,
11:16 am
the inspector general and your board said it was improper. the reviewl awaiting done by the senate to take a look at what the staffers actions were. separation of powers before the -- it goes both ways and as i said, i apologize to the chairman and vice chairman for the very specific inappropriate access that agency officers were investigating this incident made to those e-mails. are limited -- very limited inappropriate access consistent with the law and our responsibilities and i do think that you mischaracterized the full tenor of the accountability board and the inspector general's report. >> pretty hard to mischaracterized word for word quotes. >> i will exercise something here to recognize senator hyman. >> i want to start by thanking our panelists are being here for the continued excellent work that there respective agencies
11:17 am
do every day in providing world-class strategic analysis and in keeping our country safe in a world of growing and complex threats that director clapper so eloquently laid out. the work done by your agencies is critical. i want to thank chairman burke for holding this hearing, it has been two years since we have had one of these and i hope we don't wait that long, . it is important that the american people have a chance to hear from these officials, directly, especially since many of our options with these laced behinde closed doors and well that certainly is appropriate in most circumstances, public debate benefits tremendously from transparency and i appreciate the opportunity. i want to start with admiral rodgers, as you know, the world has seen an alarming increase in attacks on critical infrastructure.
11:18 am
in december, dhs reported a 20% inc. raised in cyber incidents between fy 14 and fy 15 while critical manufacturing was the most targeted sector in that, energy ranked second in the number of incidents with water and wastewater systems coming in third. on top of that, we have seen recent attacks against turkish banks, electricity providers in and a rainy infiltrated a dam just north of newark city in 2013. my question is this, does the nsa, have sufficient insight into the sorts of cyber threats to u.s. critical infrastructure that we are seeing by foreign actors and what can we do to better position ourselves against those threats, specifically to critical infrastructure? >> you never have all the insight you would like. you will not hear an intel professional tell you they cannot use more insight. the biggest challenge in some
11:19 am
ways was not so much the level of insight, but how do we and make theon changes we all believe are necessary given the dynamics of the world that you outline but i don't think our short-term trends. i don't see this changing in the near-term. the challenge i think is how do we take those insights and generate action, that is the biggest challenge. , given you thought about the focus of things like electrical generation and water and wastewater systems, the ramifications of some of the changes within those fields of distributed approaches and resiliency as opposed to the ,ery traditional approaches sort of one-way generation and large-scale transmission?
11:20 am
>> you are watching most of the sectors in the area trying to -- look at fragmentation, duplication, i talked to several elements in power and water over the course of the last year and you can see elements within the sectors trying to go that way, but i would be the first to analogy given the threat to infrastructure, the amount of time it will take to the that across the entire breadth of our nation, that is not a insignificant challenge. >> would you agree that some of the movement toward or survey did approaches, with electrical generation, things like storageids, distributed , the survey to generation, are helpful in mitigating the potential impact on the large-scale attack? >> it should be a foundational of a large-scale strategy, but i want to iterate that there is no silver bullet. >> you can always use silver buckshot.
11:21 am
while the minutes state is obviously not addressing the isis issue alone in syria and iraq, the reality is that many of our foreign partners in the region are heavily distracted by unrelated complexes -- conflicts that are sometimes counterproductive to that fight. for example, turkey is targeting the very kurds who have been some of the most engaged fighters in the battle against isis. saudi arabia is pouring money and equipment into the fight in yemen. you spend a lot of time in the middle east over the years, what has the ca. and what else might be done to get our regional partners more focused on confronting the threat posed by isis? the middle east is wracked by more instability and violence than we have seen in the past 50 years. him out of bloodshed and
11:22 am
suffering is unprecedented. we work very closely with our partners in the region and make sure that intelligence and security services are filling the responsibilities professionally as far as making sure we can share information about the flow of foreign fighters given that there is such transit between and among these countries of individuals who might go to syria, iraq and down to libya or egypt. we're trying to make sure we give them the intelligence and training they need, and also give them the professional training that is required because there are tremendous obligations on them to make sure that they are able to carry out the responsibilities but the same time respect the human rights, obligations they have as security services. we are trying to serve as a interlocutor with them and see if we cannot enhance the relationships, not only do we have interstate conflicts but intramural complex among some of these countries and that extends to the services. building up these intelligence
11:23 am
security services and giving them the wherewithal to address these problems for making sure they carry out their responsibilities professionally is important. >> we like to note that we do not have an open thread in syria, last year -- open thread hearing, last year but we had a e.osed one > we are blessed by a stores -- it is the intent of the chair to continue to allow every agency the opportunity to not just be here for the worldwide threat hearing but to come in and share with the american people what it is they do, why they do it and why the american people should care about their success.
11:24 am
today is drinking out of the fire hose trying to address the entire world at one time. i think the committee has attempted to try to increase the amount of open exposure with a degree of specificity that we have not had in the past. note on the very first page of the statement for order ofd, you say the topics presented in the statement does not necessarily indicate the relative importance or magnitude of the threat in the view of the intelligence community. my question is, is this because we are dealing with such a complex and ever-expanding level and it's difficult to prioritize or is it because we ought to be talking about this in a closed session, and if that's the case, please tell me
11:25 am
but if you had to prioritize, we had to make decisions, we have budget limitations, we want to try to address all threats equally but that is not possible so it seems to me that as a committee member and as a member of congress, when need to know how to best allocate our budgets toward what you need and i know that this can be ever-changing, but what is your response to that and how should we best address this? >> the more time i spend doing this, i think the more loads i become to try to rank order of threats. any of them can leap up and bite us, so we don't have the luxury of -- i don't like to mislead people that this one threat is the one that we will focus on at
11:26 am
the expense of others. that is why the statement there -- what does that mean from a resource standpoint, in terms of what funding and resources we are given to do our job. the approach we've taken and what i tried to champion is those resources that enable resilience and agility so that we can respond and hopefully anticipate and then respond to a variety of threats, and that is one thing and i've said this .efore in my time in the intelligence business, i don't recall a time are we working but -- confronted with a more diverse array of threats, whether it is a nation nationstate, a threat imposed by russia and china, or a non-nationstate, the likes of
11:27 am
isis, al qaeda, etc. all of these threats are serious, be a terrorism or weapons of mass destruction or others. as was pointed out, we are facing this array of threats, and one area i am concerned about is the increasing concerns about own abilities in the digital domain in cyber. i do think we as a country need to make sure that we understand what those vulnerabilities are points,ink two other making sure that we understand that the intelligence and security services and laws force and services of the country have a role to help detect that environment because of our look -- our way of life really depends on making sure that it is strong and we have adversaries overseas as well as subnational actors with the capability to carry out attacks. the admixture,at the combination of the threats
11:28 am
posed to us in the cyber domain and the connection of that with terrorism. that makes ranking these discrete threats kind of .ifficult >> i appreciate the response on that. where do we stand on that? >> like my counterparts on the panel are saying, i am always leery about this hierarchal approach. we focus on number one, the number two, number three in the world around us just as network that way. protection of u.s. persons and infrastructure is priority number one and a look at this and i see cyber and the counterterrorism world bringing us together -- bringing those
11:29 am
together. so foundation to every aspect of our daily lives. that we have a way not necessarily seen as much in greatst and it represents opportunities for us as a society, but great vulnerability with the potential for great impact and that is what is of concern. >> thank you. to follow up on that point, i was a governor during september 11 and shortly afterwards, we cast our state police to go to all of what we thought were the vulnerable pieces of infrastructure in the state, electrical, chemical plants, and assess their level of vulnerability and rich enough about how they could be attacked
11:30 am
-- red team them about how they could be attacked. it seems to be you could go to water andgrid or our gas and utilities and say this is what could happen, have you thought about this? in other words, more proactive trying to alert them to the risk and alert them to some of the protections that may be available. >> you are talking outside my lane and the formidable than security, so i want to speak for secretary johnson, i share your concern we aggressively attempt to make sure we understand our andctures and the important boehner ability we do penetration test. we do know notice inspections.
11:31 am
>> we need to talk about being more active. to alert them to where they are vulnerable. then to help them figure out the defensive measures. subject ange the specific question. one of the problems we are now seeing is the heroine is also laced and makes it more potent and often more dangerous. where does that come from? do we know? do we have intelligence on where it is being manufactured and how it gets into this unfortunate stream?
11:32 am
-- do we have intelligence on was coming from? >> we have a sense that a lot of it is may be manufactured in china and other places in the developing world. so dea and fbi are spending time trying to understand where the sources are. >> i think we should know that and should be publicity and we should name and shame those countries. this is entirely unacceptable. i would hope that there be for the analysis of that and also analysis of the trade scheme that allows it to get to mexico or central america. second question, do we have adequate resources in terms of intelligence also in terms of interdiction in mexico and central america. my understanding is is that we have a small number of people and
11:33 am
some of those central american countries which is also contributing to this. do you feel as an intelligence community that you have adequate resources to understand this trade and were comes from, who's behind it, and then that leads to interdiction and i'll follow up with that. >> surely not given the size of the title wave of heroin that is washing over from mexico. there's two waves, we talk about the heroine way for good reason, there's another wave which is methamphetamine from mexico. the two waves are now crashing together in the middle of the united states. so surely not as the honest answer. we have built much more effective relationships among ourselves and focusing on the problem and with our partners in mexico and central america. honestly, it's not good enough given the size of the threat. >> another question is how is it getting in? do you know how much by land and how much by water? my understanding is a great deal of this is coming by water. one of the problems is a lack of adequate interdiction resources
11:34 am
both in terms of military and the coast guard. >> large amount comes by water. it tends to switch from both sides of the north and central american landmass, the pacific or atlantic side. >> .. this is killing people right now in the united states and every state. abstract concern. it is not a possible virus.
11:35 am
it is something happening now. i commend you for your efforts but i hope this is something where the community can work together to develop the information necessary, but then also, it has got to be all of government to react to take the information and act upon it. thank you for your testimony. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i suspect this might eu her last public local hearing before our committee. let me join our colleagues for ofnking you for your decades service. you are here when joe lieberman and i wrote the law and i take youial pride in the work are doing and want to thank you for all of your years in service. director clapper: thank you very
11:36 am
much. sen. collins: let me follow up. is there actionable intelligence that would allow us to disrupt an interdict more of the laced mexicocoming in from new that we are able to act on because of operational constraints? act on because of the operational constraints? >> the testimony of recent retired i heard him say on more than one occasion of the drug flow in the united
11:37 am
states was limited because of lack of operational resources to react. and they do magnificent work of a building and deploying and then specifically the submersible vehicles that they are using to ship large quantities. to get the drugs off the street. >> director you talked about how difficult it is to make the job of law enforcement
11:38 am
efforts to detect improvement terrorist plots in said that encryption in this at the center of the terrorist tradecraft but yet the administration has not submitted to date and the legislative proposal to deal with encryption. i would like to know if any of the three of you have made recommendations to the president that he said the legislation with the encryption and problem for the encryption problem. >> with those recommendations is
11:39 am
encryption and is also a great faith that in mind is the challenge and that the private sector was struggling so much and i was optimistic but i can't quite clearly see what the future looks like i've not comfortable talking about those deliberations. >> i will change the question is do you think we should pass legislation with encryption? >> i will dodge that it is not the fbi's job. congress and the american people have to grapple with this because there is a collision in-house -- with public safety. >> you don't have to be careful in case you are retiring in. [laughter] >> i am not sure we have exhausted all possibilities
11:40 am
technologically. i am not and i 80 expert by any means i would hope that we have not exhausted all options it is the good thing for all kinds of reasons for privacy but at the same time is a neighborly nefarious activity with the national security rigo. and we are losing information because of it. my hope is the technological solution and i would also asked to comment.
11:41 am
>> encryption is foundational to the feature. is unrealistic. it is foundational to the future what is the best way to meet with these imperatives? for their protection in alien to safety is incredibly important. the challenge i have seen is three years spending a lot of time talking about will be keen to do i think we're the most innovative technologically of the installation in the world. let's think about what can you do.
11:42 am
>> thinks first of all, for your service. that the drug threat to is growing in our country. and i suspect we're not put date their resources into the prevention side of the equation. with data missile defense system to say to provide a greater deterrent against north korea aggression? >> but having said that with
11:43 am
the discussion of the missile defense that it not be deployed but the north koreans make dash hard to sustain in that position. to that extent there are forced displays of missile defense it could have been a defect but invite the to do more stick it is hard to tell which way they would go. and we will monitor compliance to space the support cyberwith
11:44 am
competitive advantage and private security experts have a limited john billy cyberactivity to have verified state sponsorship for data for commercial gain to understand but can you help me to understand how this is helpful if you came in to monitor compliance. >> but there has been a decline we need more time to assess if this is a case of the state sponsors of those elements have actually
11:45 am
reduced activity and we will need some more time to assess that also that challenge that it is used for economic and vantage. >> i would agree there is no doubt that we could show with the past where that was the case with its desire with the counterparts and we have to work our way through this with the use of the powers of the state to use cyberas a tool. in a dozen we have seen some activity but as a result for the chinese counterparts.
11:46 am
>> will they ever be able to resolve this dilemma? would you care to comment? >> north korea has real-world objectives the second is to deter u.s. actions on the crimean peninsula is to separate the u.s. from the south korean ally. to show that we still have a string band will not be deterred and it will be very beneficial however is unpredictable so we should do everything we can to maintain our relationship
11:47 am
but is still the unpredictable wild card. >> into also have an impact on china could be another answer? >> for us to put together a fairly good picture it is getting harder, not easier trying to hurt or diminish with the specific actors. >> could you like to add to that? [laughter] >> correct answer.
11:48 am
let me start by thanking you for your service it for those who work to keep the country say if and the fact we have the office to see a fight -- california and a series of other entities and the fbi as well. and i hope you will relay that message that they don't get the credit that they deserve. i want to commend you on your testimony today and the recognition talking about encryption with artificial
11:49 am
intelligence in the tools issues that sedgy he is out of the bottle first to commend those comments to we litigate the origination of the encryption and that is appropriate 2.0 of the intellectual capital with other types of the intrusions is announced that bin potentially a liability. i fere it is just on this
11:50 am
piece other then digital security with this notion i guess director clapper my concern is with all of these competing interests with civil liberties security i am not sure all these competing interest could all come to gather to try to challenge innovation and how to get this back had information in security specialist for privacy and civil liberties i'd like to see if we have a thoughtful
11:51 am
approach to the debate. >> debt would. i feet you gave to those of the key constituencies. for the for security in other law-enforcement with the civil liberties concerns therein is countervailing interest in we try to sort our way through those competing equities after 25
11:52 am
years and the telecom industry but the notion of that top-down solution but that will be constantly evolves being challenged and the response will be constantly transitioning with the peace on encryption but it is a much broader issue as you have laid out a to be part of this conversation did fly time is running about but the chair has been very helpful as to think about overhead satellite issues on commercial satellites one company alone has 250 this
11:53 am
year would be spent a moment how all that fits in overall ? >> i have then a huge proponent since 1911 and is a crucial part but is also important that these commercial entities remain viable if they have the product or service that they can use we should take advantage of that blood is that's and also for resilience but i don't take it is good to be completely
11:54 am
dependent on the government so we have to find a balance ciller to be sure that is secured to for. >> senator? >> and those that work for us and i will mention at couple of questions with your leadership with a the workforce of the future so one thing i will ask a question for all of you is with engineering and
11:55 am
technology and math are we doing the kinds of things we need to do to identify people to do these jobs generally is administration would be helpful. but to be more appropriately aston a closed setting and i will do that later but in that regard with the transfer of money that occurred when it did with $400 million from the past military sale we have had a given that coincidentally at the same time those three hostages were released this is money that congress said had to go to victims' of the
11:56 am
iranian-backed terror. like the church business meeting we have of $1,000 deficit what should we do? with give half to the pta and half to the girl scouts. this money is gone but it was an excuse i think to do the right thing in the wrong way. you said that secretary kerry said in the last few days undoubtedly some of the money returned to iran would go to a terrorist groups in e. verify today you see no real change of behavior of state sponsor of terror. are we doing any analysis? what do we think happens when suddenly everyone gets
11:57 am
100 million or 50 billion so what happens in places that don't have very much money has bad activity? 400 million could make a lot of bad things happen and reevaluating what happens when the taliban get the new infusion of money that i think everybody understands they are about to get? >> hi will show constraint about what could be said publicly but we are watching to the best of our ability with our insight to on where this money is going. most of it so far has been taken down each with loans
11:58 am
and other needs those fall mainly in uh economic arena and if they do something with that they have a lot of debts they need to pay weakened go into more detail in a classified setting but there hasn't been much so that period of heavy sanctions specifically to be funded in the every indians found the way to sustain them and they have businesses they generate their own income. >> that last point is the best point so they attempt
11:59 am
at the 100 billion even if they didn't have money they could find terrorism whatever percentage comes back the argument that we hear they will screw us but they could have done all of those things and they still found monday to finance care efforts all over their neighborhood. >> thanks for appearing here. i will associate myself natalie for your service but for the men and women that you represent. director, you stated earlier we have not seen as much violence and instability in
12:00 pm
the time period was your lifetime? [laughter] what are those key drivers? >> i think it has been five years since the arab spring took a rich with had a very dramatic impact on governments throughout the region and as the streets became alive and as organizations that did not trigger that it took full of vintage so that instability we see in syria and yemen was an outgrowth of the arabs period the turnover from libya and yemen. these are individuals from different areas of the country with the sectarian tensions playing account
12:01 pm
because of the authoritarian governments never in power for many years. so this popular reaction is basically civil war and challenges against the government they don't have those political institutions nor the ability to address the challenges in the region and therefore the various backgrounds are now finding ways to fight among themselves. >> by want to address electronic communications the legislation would
12:02 pm
clarify to specify a electronic transaction records so what a short position of the fbi? >> we need that very much it is an ordinary fix it is necessary because i believe it is a typo in the statute that has led to some companies interpreting it in the way congress was never intended it affects our work in a big rand practical way. >> i want to return to the north to rea test how much of that treaty with any other particulates? >>.
12:03 pm
[laughter] i have 10 questions and that is not one of them and then i would like to the answer but i appreciate the opportunity. >> what does this tell us about north korean vessels and technology? >> with the building capacity and have a bite you talk about this in a closed hearing. >> i believe we will have the chance to do that. director, you mentioned the document in shared space of violation has any member ever apologized to you over
12:04 pm
that document? >> no senator. >> was that in violation and what this committee had? to make it was inconsistent of that understanding. >> as the document and return to? >> i will check on that. >> classified information is a serious matter. >> yes. >> we will have a second round starting in the first -- as the order is the first consisting of one question or two minutes whichever is fastest and we will be out of here shortly. general you were recognized too soon because i have a question i don't think it is one you like to be answered
12:05 pm
but assessing where we are today in iraq share with the weather looks like it's the end of this year as a relates to be different if at all. >> the kurds solidified their positions they probably will not move any further south because that is not in their interest. the militia will take control over the central part of iraq. we consolidate our gains in raimondi and to we begin the move meant to secure the borders and to possibly beginning the isolation and effort put in the western
12:06 pm
parts of iraq i am not optimistic we have done much to move the forces out of the region. >> i am not betting on that. >> will be very difficult to isolate. >> faq you are a bit of principle standing up for what he believed. last year some of us received a report from the fbi that show the individuals on the terrorist watch list and attempted over a 10 year period to buy a gun or an explosive and
12:07 pm
they were successfully 91% of the time. could you describe that standard that all the individuals who pose a threat to national security are placed on the database? >> will try to do that briefly there is the extensive process to see faye believe there in terrorist activity to put them on the watch list but to make sure in the suit americans are not placed on the database stick we have to make sure our records are accurate and then department
12:08 pm
has readdress procedures if anyone thinks there were wrongly placed there is a process they can challenge that. >> want to go back to afghanistan. talked about the al qaeda presence in the deficit is increasing and the influence and how probable is that other merchants in afghanistan? >> there is 100 members the leader there is a individual who has very depp with other organizations including the taliban they continue to apply their trade but they are concerned that al qaeda
12:09 pm
and us can regenerate why we need to maintain as well as working with our partners. isil mckewon take it vantage so it is seen as the threat by afghan officials and it was one of the real concerns that they had it is plenty of a flag in different parts of afghanistan now seen as a competitor. >> stop there. how are you recessing? >> not the methodology but how big of a deal is that? >> it is a concern as several hundred members and
12:10 pm
it is distributed going up against other organizations but it is a concern in places like indonesia. >> we did that four quarters intelligence strep in we had the privilege to spend time with women parliamentarians and that the taliban will not come back and then it goes up and up with terrible things with schoolchildren do happen to be girls and wondering if we can and make sufficient progress.
12:11 pm
>> the afghan people there are thousands of afghans your given their lives that's why you want to work very closely with them. the host challenges that foreign assistance is important as well as the economic side. but they need to make sure they can address the concerns of the afghan people there some of the greatest people. >> the vice chair has worked five questions in to the one question ground. [laughter] >> i will not incur the wrath of the chairman but director written by the
12:12 pm
independent group the title is don't panic can match olson to we have enormous respect for from the national counterterrorism center getting into the nuts and bolts of the encryption that is available all over the world very cheap the basic thesis is with sensors and the like to have more opportunities to prevent our country from going dark. because of the experts involvement i would like to have your team take a look to give us an analysis of 60 days to have the unclassified version would
12:13 pm
that be something that did say breakthrough report with a cross section of experts is that something you can do? >> sure. >> one quick comment there has been a lot of praise upon new today studying american in history i appreciate washington not this early presiding over that constitutional convention to establish precedents and how the whole enterprise is would function. i know you're not the first director but with the intelligence and for that to
12:14 pm
i want to profoundly complement to help create an institution now will serve this country well for some period of time. my question is very broad broad, and you commented your report to be on the upward trajectory since the '70s were groups have a safe haven than in the other time in history would kill 20,000 members of isis to yet more foreign fighters have gone to join them. it is a hydra we cut off one and to grow back. is it time to stop to say do we need a new strategy other than trying to kill enemies as they arise and i am thinking of the strategy of
12:15 pm
containment not that that is right but there was of a comprehensive strategy rather than an ad hoc to deal with each individual attack for crisis i would suggest it seems to seek how to read deal with that extremism toward those that deal with other countries to get at the roots instead of the tactics with the very important and crucial point and to try to track down terrorist end to be focused
12:16 pm
of the fundamental systemic conditions to give rise the you can rattle off those spaces with of population bulge of the frustrated bales to whom such propaganda appeals. what has to be caught in a fundamentally is to collect intelligence and to give rise to the phenomenon. >> one question or two minutes which ever is lager?
12:17 pm
-- launder? [laughter] i will address briefly section and that expires next year to deter ged non-u.s. persons for purposes of acquiring foreign intelligence. sections of the attitude is a vital tool as multiple layers of oversight after requesting a stray reauthorization do you believe congress should have that straight reauthorization? >> i do believe ready to continue as the mecca but adversarial questions into a
12:18 pm
speech and asked if he agreed with my speech. [laughter] the committee will take up 72 very quickly from the standpoint of the preparation to educate to have them bring us up to speed on the usefulness with any tweets that may have to tune be made but this something that director clapper has said we cannot go without this it is crucial that the centerpiece >> before we end go back to encryption i have had more district attorneys come to me about that encryption issue because they're getting into a situation
12:19 pm
they cannot prosecute cases town by town or city by city or state by state sanders ranges from the york to a town of rural birth carolina in sunday's we need to take seriously. want of their responsibilities is to beecher:dash make sure it has the tools to authorize what you need traditional tools i see no different reedy to provide a tool to have access to that information i could care less how that is accomplished it is the priority of both of us to be voluntary but if it is
12:20 pm
something we cannot achieve the balance voluntarily then it is the committee's responsibility to pursue in any fashion and that we can because it isn't valuable to our future and i fear this isn't the toughest decision we will make with how technology might impact the world we are in. the american people expect us to exceed 72 individuals. you are on track to probably do that i am not sure we can turn around to see we have 11 because we cannot see inside the


info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on