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tv   1988 Presidential Candidates Second Debate  CSPAN  October 15, 2016 9:27pm-10:58pm EDT

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we have met young america. we have met your sons and daughters. mr. newman: mr. president, i'm obliged to cut you off there under the rules of the debate. i'm sorry. pres. reagan: all right. i was just going to --- [applause] mr. newman: perhaps i should point out that the rules under which i did that were agreed two campaigns -- mr. newman: -- with the league, as you know, sir. pres. reagan: i know, yes. mr. newman: thank you, mr. president. thank you, mr. mondale. our thanks also to the panel, finally, to our audience. we thank you, and the league of women voters asks me to say to you, don't forget to vote on november 6. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit]
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live coveragen's of the third debate between hillary clinton and donald trump. the live debate starts at 7:30 p.m. eastern. briefing for the debate studio -- at a:is at three: 30 p.m. eastern. watch the debate live or on-demand using your desktop, phone, or tablet at this into live coverage of the debate with your phone on the free c-span radio app. there were two presidential debates in 1988 between public and vice president george h.w. bush and massachusetts governor michael dukakis. the second and final debate was held in los angeles. this is an hour and a half.
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>> good evening. on behalf of the commission on presidential debates, i am pleased to welcome you to the second presidential debate. i am bernard i am bernard shaw of cnn news network. from abc news, -- margaret warner of newsweek magazine and andrea mitchell of nbc news. the candidates are vice theident george bush, republican nominee, and governor michael dukakis. [applause]
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bernard: for the next 90 minutes we will question the candidates in a format agreed to by the two campaigns. however there are no restrictions on the questions that my colleagues and i can ask this evening, and the candidates have no prior knowledge of our questions. agreement between the candidates, the first question goes to governor dukakis. you have to minutes to respond. governor, if kitty dukakis were raped and murdered, would you favor in irrevocable death penalty for the killer? gov. dukakis: no i don't bernard. you know that i opposed the death penalty all of my life. i don't see evidence that it is a deterrent. i think there are better and more effective ways to deal with violent crime.
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we have done so in my own state. we have had the biggest drop in crime and industrial state america. but we have work to do in this nation. we have to fight a real war, not a phony war against drugs. that's something i want to lead. something we have not had in the past couple years, although the vice president has been allegedly in charge of that war. we have much to do tunable double the number of drug enforcement agents, to fight both your and abroad, worked with our neighbors. i want to call a hemispheric summit after january as soon as possible. we also have to deal with drug education prevention at home. that is what i hope i can lead personally as president. we have had great success in my own state, we have reached out to young people in their families and began drug
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education prevention in the early elementary grades. so we can fight this war and when it. -- and win it. we can provide will support for state enforcement officers that have nothing getting that support, and do it anyway that will bring down -- -- we can provide support for our state enforcement officers that have not been getting the support. we will do it in a way that brings down violence and allows our families to grow in decent and safe neighborhoods. v.p. bush: a lot of what this campaign is about is the question of values. on this particular question i have a big difference with my account. i do believe that some crimes are so heinous, so little, -- so and those outrageous, that result in the death of a police officer.
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for those real brutal crimes, i do believe in the death penalty. i think it is a determined. i believe that we need it. i'm glad that congress moved on this drug bill and finally called for that related to these drug narcotics kingpin's. we haven't honest -- we have an honest difference of opinion. i support it and he doesn't. [applause] quote to you this from article 3 the 20th amendment of the constitution, fixed for thee beginning of the president, the president elect shall have died, the vice president elect shall become president. meaning if you are elected and die before inauguration day-- v.p. bush: bernie-- [laughter]
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bernard: automatically dan quayle would become the 34th president of the united states. what have you to say about that possibility? v.p. bush: i have confidence in him. i have made a good selection. i have never seen such an unfair pounding on a young senator in my entire life. i have never seen a presidential the presidential nominee runs against my vice presidential nominee. never seen one before. [applause] bentsen jumped on dan quayle. dan quayle has had roughly the same amount of experience. 2 terms in the congress and senate. he founded the job training partnership act that says to american working men and women filled out of work for no fault of their own, that they will have jobs moving into a new
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competitive age. we need that kind of thing. he, unlike my opponent, is an expert in national defense, help amend the imf treaty so that we got a good sound treaty when these people were talking about a freeze. ifwe listened to then we would have never had a treaty. i have great confidence in him. it is turning around. the american people are fair. they don't like it when there is an unfair hunting of people. they want to judge it on the record itself. i am proud of my choice. i don't think age is the only criteria. i will tell you something -- i am proud that people 30 years old and 40 years old now have someone in their generation that is going to be vice president of the united states. i made a good selection. the american people are seeing it and i am proud of it.
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bernard: governor dukakis, your one minute rebuttal. gov. dukakis: this was the first presidential decision we have been called upon to make. that is why people are so concerned. it was an opportunity to demonstrate what we were looking for in a running mate. more than that, it is the first national security decision we had to make. the vice president talks about national security. 3 times since world war ii the vice president has suddenly had to become commander-in-chief. i would think lloyd bentsen. i thought he was the best qualified person for the job. [applause] mr. bush? gov. dukakis: before he picked inkwell, he said watch my choice for vice president, it will tell all. it sure did. [applause]
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>> mr. vice president, yes we read your lips -- no new taxes. despite that same pledge from president reagan after income tax rates were cut in each of the last five years, some federal taxes have gone up. on social security, liquor, even long-distance telephones. that is money straight out of people's wallace. is the phrase "no new taxes" misleading the voters? v.p. bush: no, because i am pledged to that. yes some taxes have gone up. the main point is that taxes have been cut, in your income is up to the federal government by 25% in the last three years. and so i want to keep this expansion going. i don't want to kill it off by a tax increase. more americans at work today than at any time in the history of this country, and a greater percentage of the workforce.
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the way that you kill expansions is to raise taxes. i don't want to do that, and i want to that. -- i won't do that. what i have proposed will take discipline of the executive branch, of the congressional branch. that is what i call eight flexible freeze that allows growth, about 4% for the rate of inflation, but does not permit congress to add on spending. i hear this talk about a blank check. the american people are pretty smart. they know who writes out the checks. they know who appropriates the money. it is the u.s. congress. by two to one, congress is blamed for these deficits. the answer is to discipline both the executive branch and the congressional branch by holding the line on taxes. i am pledged to do that. those pessimists who say it can't be done, i'm sorry. i just have a fundamental disagreement with them.
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gov. dukakis: not vice president has broken the pledge three times, so it's not worth the paper it is printed on. if continue with the policies that esther bush is talking about in a flexible freeze, it is a kind of economic slippery ---- economic slurpee. [laughter] he wants to spend billions on virtually every system around. he says he doesn't want to raise taxes, although he has broken that from us repeatedly. he wants to give the top 1% in this country a $40 billion tax break, and we are going to pay for it. he has been proposing new programs for spending causing billions. we continue with these policies this chilean and a half dollars of debt at it on the backs of -- the trillion and a half dollars of debt will continue on the backs of the american people.
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i will worry if we can ever turn this situation around. we need a leader that will not play in the congress who will bring down the deficit and make tough choices. who will go out and do the job we expect. [applause] dukakis.and governor >> let me follow that up by saying that you have balanced 10 budget in massachusetts. are you promising the american people tonight that within a four-year presidential term, you will balance the federal budget? i'm not sure no, either one of us can promise that. there is no way of anticipating what can happen. i will say this that we will set as our goal a steady gradual reduction of the deficit, which will require health choices on spending. it will require a good strong rate of economic growth, a plan that the president works out with the congress. does not blame them, works it out with them.
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it would require us to go out and collect billions of dollars in taxes not being paid in this country. that is grossly unfair to the average american pays his taxes on time and doesn't have any alternative. as bush says, we are can with the irs on every taxpayer. that is not what we are going to do. i am for the taxpayer bill of rights. we shoulduld not -- not be thinking about imposing new taxes when there are already 100 billion taxes owed that are not being paid. if you have a president that will work with the american people and congress, we can bring the deficit down steadily, build economic growth, build a strong future for america, invest in the things we must invest in -- economic development, jobs, education opportunities, decent health care and affordable housing -- we can do all those things and at the same time build a future in which we are standing on a
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good fiscal foundation. in the benson said debate with senator quayle that if you give any of us to hundred billion dollars in checks a year, we can create an illusion of prosperity. sooner or later that credit card mentality is not going to work. i want to bring to the white house the sense of strength and fiscal responsibility that will build a good strong foundation under which this country can invest, and build the best feature for its kids and grandkids. [applause] v.p. bush: the governor is required to balance the budget in his state by law. he has raised taxes several times. asish he would join me repealing the amendment for the federal budget. [applause] i would like to have that line-item veto for the president. i think that would be extraordinarily helpful.
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i want to do the other thing he has had to do, took $29 million out of his state pension fund. cuts equivalent of taking out of the social security trust fund at the federal level. i am not going to do that. [applause] i am still unclear as to whether he is for or against tax increase. i have been for the taxpayer's bill of rights all along. this idea of unleashing a can forst army of irs agents into sverybody's attention -- ir agents into everybody's kitchen. i suppose that. -- oppose that. [applause] i am going to say this-- gov. dukakis: i'm going to say this once to every person in the auditorium. what this candidates are about are of utmost seriousness to the
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american voters. they should be heard, and you should be quiet. if you are not quiet, i will implore the candidates to do something about quieting their own partisans. we cannot get through this program with these outbursts. mr. vice president, governor. you won the first debate on intellect and yet you lost it on heart. [laughter] the american public admired your performance, but did not seem to like you much. ronald reagan has found his personal warmth to be examined as political asset. do you think that a president has to be likable to be an effective leader? gov. dukakis: may i go back and say i did not rate the pension fund in massachusetts? -- raid the pension fund in massachusetts?
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you are dead wrong. i am the first person in my state to fund that. we did not. [applause] i have been in politics for 25 years. i have won a club of elections. i won the democratic nomination in 50 separate contests. i think i am a reasonably likable guy. [laughter] i am serious, but i think i am more lovable than i used to be in my youth in the state legislature. i am also a serious guy. i think the presidency is a very serious office. i think we have to address these issues in a very serious way. i hope and expect that i will be like by the people of this country as president of the united states. i certainly hope i will be liked by the eighth of november. [laughter] but i think it's important to be somebody willing to make those tough choices. we just heard 2-3 times for the
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vice president he will not raise taxes. within days after you made that pledge, you broke it. you said maybe as a last resort we will do it. but he supported legislation that increased taxes not want but twice. -- not once but twice. i think the people of this country know that is not realistic. the next president will have to go to the white house seriously, .orked with congress seriously we cannot blame them that we have billions of dollars in red ink. i want to be a president that is serious. i hope and expect to be liked by the american people, but more than that, to do the job i am elected to do to do with as much good humor is again, that in a way that will achieve the goals that we want for ourselves and our people. i think we know what they are. a strong future for all of our citizens. [applause] bernard: one minutes from the
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vice president. v.p. bush: i don't think it's a question whether people like you are not to be an effective leader. it is whether you share the broad dreams of the american people. whether you have confidence in the people's ability to get things done. or whether you think it should be turned over, like liberals do, to washington dc. it is a question of values, not orability or liability -- lovability. it is knowing how to build on a superb administration. you have to learn from experience that making unilateral cuts in defense is not the way that you enhance peace. you have to understand that it is only the united states that can stand for freedom and democracy around the world. we can't turn it over to the united nations or other multilateral organizations. it is trying to understand the heartbeat of the country. i know these campaigns get
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knocked a lot. i think i would be a better president now from having traveled to these communities and having understood the family values. [applause] margaret: i would like to follow-up on that. the tenor of the campaign you have been running has surprised even some of your friends. senator marquette, who has known your family a long time, and the late senator prescott bush said "if his father were alive today, i'm sure his father would see it as a shocking transformation." he was referring to your performance on the campaign. v.p. bush: i think my dad would be pretty proud of me. i think we have come a long long way. i remember some of the great publications in this country had written me off. what i had to do is define not
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just my position, but divine his. i hope i have done that fairly. the reason is that he ran on the left in the democratic primary, ran firmly and with conviction, record.on his and then at that democratic convention they make a determination. they said ideology does not matter, just competence. and in the process, the negatives begin. it was not me at that convention. thank out it was me with jimmy baker camping out, and i didn't have to hear all the personal attacks on me. it was wonderful not to have to listen to it. i'm not the one that compared the president of the united states rotting like a dead fish from the head down. but i have defined the issues. i am not going to let governor dukakis go through this election without explaining some of these very liberal positions.
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he is the one that said i am a traditional progressive liberal democrat. he is is the one that brought up to garner primary votes the whole question of the aclu. i have enormous difference with the aclu on their political agenda. not on their defending some minority opinion on the right or the left. i support that. but what i don't like is this left-wing political agenda. therefore i have to help define that. if he is unwilling to do it and says ideology doesn't matter, i don't agree with him. [applause] bernard: one minute from governor dukakis. gov. dukakis: we have heard again the labels. the vice president called me a liberal two or three times. in 1980 president reagan called you a liberal promoting for federal gun control. this is something republicans have used for a long time. eric truman and john kennedy -- it is not labels.
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it is our vision of america. we have to fundamentally different visions. the vice president is complicit with the status quo and does not think we ought to move ahead. i don't. i this is a great country because we have always wanted to do better, make our country better, make our lives better. we have been a nation that is ambitious for america. that is the kind of america i want to provide. i don't think these labels mean anything. i would hope for the rest of this campaign, we can have a good solid disagreement on issues. let's stop labeling each other and let's get to the heart of the matter which is future of this country. [applause] >> mr. vice president, governor. let me return for a moment to the issue of the budget. so much has already been put off
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limits in your campaign that most people do not believe the flexible freeze alone will solve the problem. let's turn to defense for a moment. pentagon officials tell us there is not enough money in the budget to handle military as wells, preparedness, as new weapon systems proposed, as well as those already in the pipeline. you were asked at the first debate what new weapon systems you would cut. you mentioned 3 that have already been canceled. can you tonight share with us 3 new weapon systems that you would cut? 11. bush: i knew of 3 systems that i thought were purely waste that would not be in the budget. they would not be in the budget. but you want one now? i can give you one. that truck that cost $850 million in the pentagon did not requested, yet a powerful member of congress put it in the budget. i think we can save money
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through this sophisticated concept that i know you do understand of competitive strategy. it is new and very different from what has happened. it is very important. i think we can say to the packard commission report, and i am proud that david packard, the originator of that report, is strongly supporting me. it's not a question of saying that our budget is full of a lot of waste. i do think this. dear in the series stages of negotiation with the soviet union in a strategic arms control talks. we're protecting a cup of options in terms of modernizing our strategic forces. my secretary of defense will have to make it difficult to system in which system to go forward with. we are moving forward with the negotiation. i think it would be done negotiating -- it would be dumb
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negotiating policies with the soviets to cut out one of the two other options. the soviets continue to modernize. we can't say, we've got enough nuclear weapons, let's freeze. we can't do that. we have to have modernization, especially if we achieve the 50% reduction in strategic weapons that our president is taking the leadership to came. -- to attain. i believe we can have a strongest and best defense possible if we modernize, go forward with competitive strategies, and follow through on the packard commission report. bernard: governor dukakis, one minute. gov. dukakis: we had another example why the vice president's mathematics do not add up. you've covered these issues. there is no way we can build these weapon systems the vice president wants to build within the existing defense budget. everybody knows that, including
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the pentagon. my defense secretary have a lot to do with those decisions. the president will ultimately decide before it goes to congress what weapons systems will go and what will stay. the billionspend and trillions that he wants on star wars. they weapons system that we don't need, cannot afford, and one of our defense posture at all. we are not going to spend hundreds of millions on a spaceplane from washington to tokyo. yes, we are can have a strong and effective nuclear deterrent. we are going to go advanced with the five cruise missile. but the next president will have to make some tough difficult decisions. i am prepared to make them, the vice president is not. [applause] bernard: andrea has a question. andrea: continuing on that subject, we say we have to do something about conventional
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forces. you supported the d5 submarine mission like you mentioned. but from jimmy carter to rake in their have been a bipartisan consensus in favor of modernizing the land-based missiles. you have ruled out the mx and the midget men. some of your aides have ended at flexibility that you might show about new form of missiles. can you tell us why have you rejected the collected wisdom of people as rare diverse as henry kissinger, al gore -- people in both parties? what type of land-based missile would you consider? today we have 13,000 strategic nuclear warheads on land, air, and sea. that is an incredibly powerful nuclear deterrent. there are discussions about a less expensive modernized land-based leg of the triad. there are limits to what we can spend.
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there are limits to this nation's ability to finance these weapons systems. the one thing the vice president ignores or will not address is that you can't divorce our military security from economic security. how can we build a military that is teeter tottering on a mountain of debt? if we go forward with these policies, that debt is going to grow bigger and bigger. military security and economic security go hand in hand. we will have a strong and effective and credible nuclear deterrent. clear can i have well named, well supported forces. we have serious problems with our conventional force at the present time. these will get worse if we don't have a president willing to make these decisions. we have important domestic priorities. things will have to be addressed.
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that is why i say again to all of you who have to deal with your household budgets. you know how difficult it is that the next president has to do the same. i want the men and women of our armed forces to have the support they need when they risk their lives to keep us free and keep this country free. we cannot live on a credit card. we cannot continue to tell the american people we will build the systems and at the same time invested home and be serious about building a strong and good america that is the kind of .merica i want to build [applause] v.p. bush: i held off for the applause. can we start the clock over? i think the foremost responsibility of a president gets down to the national security of this country. the governor talks about limits,
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poses these two modernization systems. talks about, well we will develop some new type of missile. it takes 8-10 years to do that. he talked about a nuclear freeze at the time i was in europe trying to convince european public opinion that we ought to go forward with deployment of inf weapons. thank god the freeze people were not hurt. they were wrong. we would devoid and the soviets floyd and we negotiated --we de ployed and the soviets deploayed and so we negotiated to ban weapons. you don't naively cut to hope that soviets will behave themselves. we have enhanced peace and then proud to have been part of an ministers and that has done exactly that. peace through strength works. [applause]
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governor, today they may call them role models. pleased to be called heroes. the kind of public figure that could inspire a generation. my question is not who your heroes were. my question is instead is who are the heroes in american life today? who are the ones you would point out to young americans as figures that should inspire this country? gov. dukakis: when i think of eroes, ithink back -- h think back. but some are in present life in the senate and congress. some of my fellow governors are real heroes to me. those young athletes at the olympics are tremendously impressive. we are proud of them. we feel strongly of them and they did so well by us. i can think of doctors and scientists.
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one who discovered relaxing for one of the most threatening diseases we have ever had. he is a hero. i have classroom teachers that i have had, that youngsters have had today that are real heroes to our young people because they inspire them. they teach them, but more than that they are role models. members of the clergy, drug counselors on the street providing help to youngsters that asked for help and want health. doing the hard heroic work it takes to provide that kind of leadership and counseling. i think of people in the law enforcement community who are taking their lives in their hands every day. taking a door down and trying to stop this flow of drugs into our communities. so there are many heroes in this country today. these are people that give of themselves every week, every
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month. there are people in the community that are examples and role models. i think one of the things we can do as president is to recognize and give them the kind of recognition that we need and deserve so that more and more young people can become the heroes of young tomorrow. they can go into teaching or drug counseling and the heroes themselves to generations yet to come. [applause] v.p. bush: i think of a teacher right here, artfully hispanic school. teaching calculus to young kids, 80% of them going on to college. i think of a young man now in this country who was released from a cuban jail. he came out and told the truth in this brilliant book "against all hope" about what is happening in cuba. i think about those who took us into space again.
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i agree with the governor on athletics. there is nothing corny about having sports heroes, young people that are clean and honorable setting a case. i think of this dr. -- you have heard of him. is a top researcher at the institute of health working hard on this research on this disease aids. i think we should give some credit to the president of the united states. he is the one that got us that first arms-control agreement. [applause] he is leaving office with the popularity at an all-time high. he is our hero. [applause] bit.t's change the pace a in this campaign and some hard and bitter things have been spoken by each side. governorconsider
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dukakis and his years of public service, is there anything nice you can say about him? v.p. bush: you are stealing my close. i have something nice to say. [laughter] let me tell you something about that. barb and i were sitting there before the democratic convention. we saw the governor and his son on television than it before, and his family and mother. i am saying to barbara, we've always kept finley as a bit of an oasis. you all know me, we have held it back a little. we use that as a role model the way that he took understandable pride in his heritage. and we have a strong family. we said hey, we have to unleash the bush kids. [laughter] kids all over this
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country and their spouses. i would say the concept of finley has my great respect -- dukakis family has my great respect. i don't know if that is kind or not, it is just an objective statement. whoever gets into the political arena and faces you guys every day is brave. it's not much fun sometimes. i would cite ben quayle -- i have been in politics a long time and don't remember that kind of piling on. the kind of ugly rumors true. some of that is unfair. teddy roosevelt used to talk about the arena. daring to fail greatly or succeed -- doesn't matter. i salute those who participate in the blizzard -- in the political process. intellectuals complaining of negative coverage.
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raburn says, jack i never ran for sure if either. governor dukakis ran for sheriff, and so has george bush. [applause] gov. dukakis: i didn't hear the word liberal or left one time. i thank you for that. [laughter] doesn't that prove the point? that families like finley in education, community. decent homes for young people like a family in long island that i visited on monday. house for $19,000 and had 17 children. they can't live in the community in which they grew up in. those are basic american values. they are not left or right. they are decent american values.
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the one thing that concerns me about this is this attempt to label things which all of us believe in. it may have different approaches. you may think you do with them in different ways, but they are basically american. i think the best majority of americans believe in the. hasi hope the tone that we for the rest of the campaign. i think the american people would appreciate it. [applause] margaret: abortion remains as a troubling issue. i'd like to explore that for a minute with you. you said you regard abortion as murder, yet you would make exception in the case of rape and insist. -- and incest. my question is, why should a woman that discovers through amniocentesis that her baby will be born with a disease, that will live at most 2 years being
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incredible pain, to be forced to carry the fetus to term, and yet a woman that becomes pregnant through incest is allowed to board? v.p. bush: you left out the important thing, the health of the mother. barb and i lost a child. you know that. i was out running records and west texas and i got a call from her to come home. i went to the doctor. the doctor said, beautiful child. your child has a few weeks to live. i said, what can we do about it? she has a cute leukemia. we took the child to new york. thanks to the miraculous sacrifice of doctors and nurses, the child stayed alive for 6 months and then died. if that child where your today, and i was told the same thing, if that child could stay alive for 10 or 15 years, that you
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could have survived for the rest of her life. i don't think you make an exception based on medical knowledge at the time. i think human life is very precious. this hasn't been an easy decision to meet. i know others disagree with it. when i was in that church across the river from washington and so i child -- and saw our grandchild christened in our faith, i was pleased indeed that aborted childd not and put it up for adoption. this is where i am coming from. i don't assail him on that issue or others. that is the way i, george bush feel on it. [applause] bernard: gov. dukakis: kitty and i had the same experience that the bushes had.
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had a childut -- that lived about 20 minutes after he was born. the vice president himself is prepared to make exceptions. babies who makes the decisions -- it is who makes the decision. who makes this difficult heart wrenching decision. [applause] i think it has to be the woman. in the exercise of her unconscious and religious beliefs that makes that decision. who are we to say understood from circumstances, it is all right, but under -- but other unders, it isn't? that is only a position that a woman can make. after consulting her conscious and religious principles. i would hope that we would give to women in this country a right to make that decision, and to make it in the exercise of their just -- their conscious.
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margaret: i like to turn to the defense budget. you have said in this campaign you would maintain a stable defense budget. yet you are on the advisory board -- gov. dukakis: may i say that the decision of the congress, that the president has concurred? margaret you are on a board which: "jumps with peace" advocates a 25% cut in the defense budget and a transfer to the domestic economy. do you share that as a long-range goal? and if not, are you aware of, or why do you permit this group to use on his letterhead for fundraising? gov. dukakis: i was on the advisory committee. no i don't share that goal. we are associated with organizations, all of whose particular positions we don't support, even though we support in general that overtime if we strategicreduction in
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options, bring down the level of forces and the soviet union -- estimated possible to reduce defense. and use it for important things at home like jobs and job training. health and housing and the environment. president, even within a relatively stable budget -- and that what we will have -- will have to make those tough choices that mr. bush does not seem to want to make. that will be a challenge for the next president. also see a german this opportunity to negotiate with the soviet union to make the progress we have made with the inf treaty to get those reductions in strategic weapons. thereally make progress on production of conventional forces in europe.
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that can do that and a way gets deeper cuts on the soviet side, then i think we have an opportunity over the long run to begin to move some of our resources from the military to important domestic priorities that can provide college opportunity for that young woman . a woman wrote me from texas, two teachers. they have a child in college as an electrical engineering major, bright student. they can't afford to have that child in college. i hope we can begin to move those resources. it will have to happen on a step by step basis. certainly is the long-term goal of all americans. v.p. bush: the defense budget takes far less percentage of the gross national product than it did in president kennedy's kind for example. it tremendously.
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facing a real opportunity for world peace. this is a big question, whether the u.s. will continue to lead for peace. i don't believe any other country can pick up the mantle. i served in the u.n.. i don't think we can turn these decisions over to the united nations or anyone else. we have to make choices. i said he will make the secretary of defense sit down, but while the soviet union, i simply do not want to make these unilateral cuts. those that advocated the phrase missed the point. that has resulted in an asymmetrical cut. the soviets take out more than we do. the principle of intrusive verification. those two principles can be applied to national forces and strategic forces provided we don't give our hand away before
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we set down at the table. >> you are facing that dreaded last resort, increased taxes. which tax to you site is the least onerous? gov. dukakis: may i disagree with the premise of your question? >> for the sake of argument, no. [laughter] [applause] gov. dukakis: as a matter of reality, i'm going to have to. as a matter of one we have had tell storieswo that indicates there are billions of dollars to be collected that are not being paid in. these are not taxes owed by average americans. we lose it when we even get it. it is the internal revenue service which estimates we're not collecting $100 billion or more in taxes owed. that is unfair to the vast majority of americans who paid on time. the task force which included 2
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revenue commissioners was a bipartisan commission studied by 2 expected economist which indicated we could collect 45 and $50 billion of those funds. you have to have a president prepared to do this, and to begin right away. republican governors and democratic governors have done it. we have had great success in revenue enforcement. the vice president would tell you it will take an army of virus collectors to get it. his campaign manager used the secretary of the treasury and was taking great credit a year ago in asking for congress substantial additional funds to hire internal revenue agents to collect these funds. i'm happy to join jim baker in saying that we agree.
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this is something that we must begin. it will take at least the first year of a new administration. the bipartisan task force estimates we could collect about $35 billion over five years. here the study, even more than that. that is where you begin. bernard: one minute response. v.p. bush: you did not predicate that lack of economists support for what i call inflexible freeze. some very good economist do support that concept. where i differ with the governor of massachusetts is that i am optimistic. they jumped on me about being optimistic about the u.s. i believe we can keep this longest expansion going. i was not out when the stock market dropped, wringing my hands and saying this is the end of the world, as some political leaders were. what we have to do is restrain
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the growth of spending. we are doing a better job of it. work, but theys don't work if you go raise taxes and the congress spends it. the american working men and women are not taxed too little. the federal government continues to spend too much. [applause] mr. vice president, you have ruled out any change in social security benefits, even for the wealthy. can you stand here tonight and look at a whole generation of 18-34-year-olds in the eye, the very people that will have to be financing that retirement, and told them they should be financing the retirement of people like yourself and governor dukakis, or for that matter, people such as yourself pure on this panel? v.p. bush: more so you than me.
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>> we could argue about that. v.p. bush: go back to what social security was. it was a welfare program. -- wasn't a welfare problem. this was a supplement to retirement program. it wasn't a welfare program. we came into office and the social security trust fund was in great jeopardy. president took the leadership working with republicans in congress. the social security trust fund was put back into sound solid condition. i don't want to fool around with it. there is a good political reason. it is just about this time of year the democrats start saying, the republicans are going to take away your social security. it always works that way. i've seen that in precinct politics in texas and that the national level. we have made the trust fund
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sound. it will be operating at surplus. i don't want the liberal democratic congress to spend out of that social security trust fund or take the money out for some other purpose. i don't want that. i will not go in and suggest changes in social security. i that the hardware. -- learned that the hard way. the governor supported it international governance conference. i supported it in breaking a tie in a major compromised package. -- we got sailed by the democrats. i will keep that sound and keep our commitment to the elderly. and maybe down the line, when you get two decades or one into the next century, you will take another look at it. but not now. we don't have to do it. keep the trust with the older men and women of this country. gov. dukakis: i don't know which
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george bush i am listening to. george bush a few years ago said social security was basically a welfare program. in 1985 he flew back to the west coast to cut that cold. i voted against that at the national governors association. we did not win the two thirds necessary to pass that resolution. but everybody knew what we were doing. concerns notraised just in election years but every year is because republicans, in and start go cutting. the ministers dated repeatedly. i am sure you will try to do it again. there is no way you can finance what you want to spend, that five-year $40 billion tax cut for the rich and still buy all this was to systems you want to buy unless you raid the social
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security fund. ann: there are three justices of the supreme court in their 80's. it is likely the next president will get a chance to put a lasting mark on the supreme court. for the record, would your nominees have to pass something that has been called a kind of survey of ideological litmus test? would you give us an idea of to-three people on your shortlist? -- two or three people on your shortlist? v.p. bush: i don't have a list. secondly i don't have any litmus test. but i would appoint people to the federal bench that will not legislate from the bench, who will interpret the constitution. to anot want to see us go liberal majority that is going to legislate from the bench. they don't like the use of the word. may i remind his strong
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supporters that only lester in the primary to capture that democratic nomination, he said i am a progressive liberal democrat. i support judges like that. -- i won't support judges like that. i will find many women to interpret. i think -- i will find men and women to interpret. i think the president has made outstanding appointments. [applause] have onegovernor, you minute response. gov. dukakis: if the vice president thinks that robert bork is an outstanding appointment, that is a good reason for voting for mike dukakis on the eighth of november. [applause] supported thesh bork nomination. mr. bush has appointed over it to. i pointed over 130, so i have a
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record. i don't ask people whether they are republicans or democrats. i have appointed prosecutors and defenders. i don't appoint people that i think are liberal or that i think are conservative. i appoint people of independence and integrity and intelligence who will give credit to the bench. and those of the standards i will use in nominating those in the supreme court. these appointments are for life. these of women's are for life. -- i wonder who he is talking about liberals. the republican oral warren? i think chief justice warren was an outstanding chief justice. >> governor, millions of americans are entitled to some of the protections and benefits the government provides, including social security, pensions, medicare, medicaid.
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in fact there are so many millions of americans who are eligible, the government can't continue to pay for all of his problems. a blue-ribbon panel shortly after the election is likely to recommend that you go where the money is when you make budget cuts. before the election, would you commit yourself to any of those hard choices, such as which one of those entitlements on to be withdrawn? gov. dukakis: why do people who want to balance budget always go to those programs which tend to benefit people of very modest means? 2/3 of the people in this country who receive social security checks live entirely on that check. they have no other income. and yet mr. bush tried to cut the cost of living increase. medicare is not getting less expensive.
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medical care for the elderly is getting more expensive. with greater deductibles, fewer benefits, the kinds of things we can't in this demonstration that have cut, chopped, and reduced the kind of benefits one gets under medicare. we have catastrophic health insurance. that will be in additional burden on elderly citizens. should have had bipartisan support. i suggest that we understand that those will be additional cost on senior citizens across this country. i am not going to begin with entitlements as a means for cutting that deficit. we are spending billions on something like star wars, when we are spending billions on other weapon systems that the vice president wants to keep in his back pocket or someplace, but if we continue to spend billions on, it will force us to cut social security and medicare.
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i talked in her first debate about the possibilities of helping millions of where fair get off of i am proud to say we have a welfare reform bill. hundreds of thousands of welfare mothers in this country who today are working and earning are examples of what happened when you provide training, day care. that is the way you bring a deficit down and help to improve policy of life for people at the same time. [applause] v.p. bush: let me say for the .ecord, i did not vote to cut i voted the same way that he did three months before international governance conference. he said at that time, a paraphrase "a freeze? that's
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easy." i am going to keep the social security trust fund sound. but i do think there are flexible ways to solve some of the pressing problems that affect our children. i have made some good sound proposals. again, we have a big difference on childcare. i want families to have the choice. i don't want to see the federal government licensing grandmothers. i don't want to see the guttural government saying to communities, you can't do this anymore. i want flexibility. about thele laugh 1000 points -- you want to go out and see what is happening in the volunteer sector. americans helping americans. i want to keep it alive in childcare and in other entitlements. [applause] i will has on the question i originally planned to
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ask you to follow up on a rebuttal involved in social security. it is true that originally you sought an exemption in the news -- and the governors association vote. but when you lost that vote you endorsed the overall freeze proposal. what is more, you had great it is a some from your photo governors that were not go -- had great criticism of your fellow governors that would not go along as fellow cowards. gov. dukakis: that is not true. it had to do with the discussion we had the previous day. my question is, aren't you dem gogging the social security issue? duncan: no. i have to correct the record. that is not true. you vote on resolutions. if you don't get a 2/3 then the resolution doesn't pass. everybody knew those of us who
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voted against the freezing of colas did so emphatically and i never made that statement and never would. as we look at this nation's future and we have two very different visions of this future, i want to move ahead. the vice president talks about a thousand points of light. i'm interested in 240 million points of light. i'm interested in 240 million citizens in this country who share in the american dream. all of them in every part of this country. as we look at the decisions that the next president of the united states is going to have to make, i just don't believe the place to go first is those programs, those so-called entitlements which provide a basic floor of income and a modest amount of medical care for the elderly, for the disabled. for people who can't make their way on their own and in many cases have given a great deal of this country.
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vice president did call social security basically a welfare program a few years ago and it isn't. it's a contract between generations. it's something we pay into now so we will have a secure retirement and our parents and grandparents will have a secure retirement. it's a very sacred contract. i believe in it. so that's not where we ought to go. there are plenty of places to cut. there is lots we can do in the pentagon where the contractors have been lining their pockets at the expense of the american taxpayer. [applause] governor dukakis: we certainly ought to be able to give our farm families a decent income without spending 20 to $20 billion a year in farm subsidies. i'm sure we can do that. that's where we have to go and the programs we ought to review first. mr. schieffer: one minute to go. vice president bush: we have a fundamental difference on agriculture. he favors supply maintenance or production controls. he said that.
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he has been out in the midwestern states saying that. i don't. i think the farm bill he criticizes was good legislation, outstanding legislation. i believe the answer to the agricultural community is not to get the government further involved but do what i'm suggesting. first place never go back to the democratic grain embargo, that liberal, democrat grain embargo that knocked the markets right out from under us and made mr. gorbachev say to me when he was here, how do i know you're reliable suppliers? we never should go back to that. we ought to expand our markets abroad, have rural enterprise zones, move forward swiftly on my ideas of ethanol which would use more corn and make a bigger market for our agricultural products but let's not go back and keep assailing a farm bill that passed with overwhelming democrat and republican support. the farm payments are going down because the agricultural economy is coming back.
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mr. schieffer: margaret warner has a question, mr. vice president. margaret: i'd like to cover a subject that wasn't covered in the first debate. you have said in this campaign i am an environmentalist and described yourself as having zero tolerance for polluters yet your record does seem to suggest otherwise. when you were head of the president's task force on regulatory relief, you did urge e.p.a. to relax regulations involving the elimination of ead from gasoline. i believe your suspension of rules requiring industries to treat toxic waste before discharging them in sewers and your group also urged osha to weaken regulations requiring workers be informed of dangerous chemicals at the work site. finally i do believe you supported the clean water act. my question is, aren't you -- how do you square your campaign rhetoric with this record? vice president bush: 90%
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reductions in lead since i chaired that regulatory task force, 90%. you remember that expression, get the lead out? it's almost out. almost gone. clean water, i'm for clean water. what i am not for is measuring it the way that the democratic congress does. we set up a good bill on clean water, a sound bill on clean water. the only way you can express your love for clean water is to double the appropriations for clean water and then rant against the deficit. i am for clean water. i've been an outdoorsman and sportsman all my life. i've been to these national parks. formerly he dingle/johnson bill. i headed the task force when i was a member of congress in the late 1960's on these kinds of things on the republican side. i led for that. and so i refuse to measure one's commitment as to whether you're going to double the spending. that is the same old argument
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that has gotten us into trouble on the deficit side. i'll just keep saying i am one. i'm not going to go down there and try to dump the sludge from off the beaches into new jersey. ot going to do that. that boo was excessively loud and long. can you add five seconds, bernie? give me five. this is too much. but i'm not going to do that. i am an environmentalist. i believe in our parks. i believe in the president's commission on outdoors and i'll do a good job because i am committed. mr. shaw: governor dukakis, you have one minute to respond. governor dukakis: i'm not sure i can get all of this in in one minute. george, we have supply management today under the 1985 bill. secondly, if you are so oppose today grain embargo why did you ask him to be one of your top policy advisers?
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it was a mistake. i'm also against the pipeline embargo you folks attempted to impose. that was a mistake as well and cost thousands of jobs for american workers in the midwest and all over the united states of america. margaret, once again i don't know which george bush i'm talking about here or looking at. the george bush who was a charter member of the environmental wrecking crew in washington in the early 1980's and did a job on the e.p.a. or the one we've been seeing and listening to the past three months. let me say this. he spent millions and millions of dollars on advertising on the subject of boston harbor. george, boston harbor was polluted for a couple years. i am the first governor to clean it up. [applause] governor dukakis: no thanks to you. we've been cleaning it up four years. we passed landmark legislation in 1984. you did everything you could to kill the clean water act and those grants to make it possible for states and local communities to clean up rivers and harbors.
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[applause] mr. shaw: andrea mitchell has a question for you, mr. vice president. andrea: jimmy carter has called this the worst campaign ever. richard nixon has called it trivial, superficial, and inan. whoever started down this road first of negative campaigning, the american people from all reports coming to us are completely fed up. now, do you have any solutions to suggest, is there time left to fix it? there are 26 days left. for instance, would you agree to another debate before it's all over so the american people would have another chance before election day to compare you two? vice president bush: no i will not agree to another debate. the american people are up to here with debate. they had 30 of them. we had seven of them. now we got three of them. i am going to carry this election debate all across this country in the last whatever
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remains of the last three and a half weeks or whatever we have, and the answer is no. i am not going to have any more debate. we don't need any more debate. i've thought out my position. in terms of negative campaigning, i don't want to sound like a kid in the school yard, he started it, but take a look at the democratic convention. take a look at it. you remember the senator from boston chanting out there and the ridicule factor from that lady from texas that was on there? i mean, come on. this was just outrageous. it 'll try harder to keep on a high plane. if you accept a little criticism i went all across illinois and spoke about agricultural issues in about seven stops. we had some fun. crystal gale, loretta lynn with us, they got up and sang, went to little towns and talked
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agriculture. not one thing did i see with respect to your network about my views on agriculture and not one did i read in any newspaper. why? because you're so interested in a poll that might have been coming out or because somebody said something nasty about somebody else. and so i don't know what the answer is. -- n't -- somebody hit me barry goldwater asked if i was going to talk on the issues more. we put out position paper after position paper. he puts out position paper after position paper and we see this much about it because everyone else is fascinated with polls and who is up or down today and who's going to be up or down tomorrow. i think we can all share with respect in the fact maybe the message is not getting out. it's not getting out because there are too few debates. there will be no more debates. mr. shaw: governor dukakis, you have one minute to respond, sir. governor dukakis: i can understand after the vice
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presidential debate why mr. bush would want no more debates. that's my five seconds. andrea, i think we both have a responsibility to try to address the issues. yes we have fundamental differences. i think a great many have come out today. i think if we get rid of the labels and i'm not keeping count but i think mr. bush has used the label "liberal" at least 10 times. if i had a dollar, george, for every time you use that label i'd qualify for one of those tax breaks for the rich you want to give away. isn't that the point? most americans believe in basic values. we have differences about how to achieve them. i want to move forward. i want this nation to move forward. i'm concerned about the fact that 10% of our manufacturing and 20% of our banking, nearly half of the real estate in the city of los angeles are in the hands of foreign investors. i'm concerned about what that does to our future. i'm concerned about the fact that so many of our securities are in the hands of foreign banks because of the massive
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deficits. those are the issues on which we ought to be debating. and just put away the flag factories and the balloons and those things and get on to a real discussion these issues. mr. shaw: andrea mitchell has a question for you, governor dukakis. andrea: we're talking about issues. let's return to something you said earlier about the modernization of land-based missiles. you said you didn't move us out but there are limits to what we can spend. then you went on to talk about a much more expensive part of our defense strategy namely conventional sources. do you somehow see conventional sources as a substitute for our strategic forces and in not talking about the land-based missiles and not committing to modernizing do you somehow believe that we can have a surviveable nuclear force based on the air and sea legs of our triad? governor dukakis: i think we ought to be looking at modernization. we ought to be exploring less expensive ways to get it on
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land and we ought to make sure we have an effective and strong and credible nuclear deterrent, but we also need well-equipped, well trained, and well supported conventional forces. every defense expert i know including people in the pentagon, itself, will tell you that given the level of defense spending and the devil of defense appropriations which the congress has now approved and the president has signed there is no way you can do all of these things and do them well. that's why tough choices will be required. choices i am prepared to make. mr. bush is not prepared to make. andrea, i think we can go well beyond this. we have opportunities. step by step to bring down the level of strategic weapons, get a test ban treaty. negotiate those. i would challenge mr. gorbachev to join with us in limiting and eliminating regional conflict in the middle east and central america. let's get him working on syria, their client state, see if we can't get them to join israel
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and other arab nations if at all possible and in finally bringing peace to that troubled region. i think that is one reason why we need fresh leadership in the white house to make progress now bringing peace to the middle east. let's go to work and end this fiasco in central america. failed policy which has actually increased cuban and soviet influence. democratic leaders of central and latin america want to work with us. i've met them, i know them. i spent time in south america. speak the language. we want to work with them and build a new relationship and they with us but not a one of those key democratic leaders support our policy in central america. we've got to work with them if we're going to create an environment in human rights and democracy for people this hemisphere and go to work on our single most important problem and that is the avalanche of drugs pouring into our country and virtually destroying those countries. those are the kinds of priorities for national security and for foreign policy that i want to pursue. m bush and i have major
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differences on these issues. i hope very much to be president and pursue them. mr. shaw: mr. vice president, you have one minute. vice president bush: in terms of regional tensions we have now gotten the attention of the soviet union and the reason we've gotten it is because they see us now as unwilling to make the very kinds of unilateral cuts that have been called for and to go for the discreditted freeze. my opponent had trouble, criticized us on our policy in angola. it now looks because it's steady negotiation, that we may have an agreement that will remove the cubans from angola. we seek the russians coming out of afghanistan. that wouldn't have stopped if we hadn't been -- wouldn't even have started if the soviets coming out if we hadn't been lling to support the freedom fighters there. the policy in central america has regrettabley failed because congress is unwilling to
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support those who have been fighting for freedom. those sandinistas came in and betrayed the trust of the revolution. they said it was about democracy. they have not done -- done nothing other than solidify their marxist domination over that country. mr. shaw: ann compton for governor dukakis. ann: governor, nuclear weapons need nuclear materials replenished on a regular basis and just this week yet another nuclear manufacturing plant was closed because of safety concerns. the pentagon feared too much priority has been put on the weapons program, not enough on current programs, and worry that the resulting shortage would be amounting to nothing less than unilateral nuclear disarmament. is that a priority that you feel has been ignored by this administration? are the pentagon officials making too much of it? governor dukakis: it is a great concern of mine and i think all americans. perhaps the vice president can tell us what's been going on. this is another example of misplaced priorities. the administration, which wants to spend billions on weapons systems we don't need and can't
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afford and now confronts us with a very serious problem in plants that were supposed to be producing plutonium and providing necessary materials for existing weapons. yes, if we don't do something about it we may find ourselves unilaterally if i may use that term dismantling some of these weapons. what's been going on? who's been in charge? who's been managing this system? why have there been these safety violations? why are these plants being closed down? i don't know the latest cost estimates but in the range of 25, 50, 75, a hundred billion dollars. now, somebody has to have the responsibility for this. maybe the vice president has an answer. but i'm somebody who believes very strongly in taking care of the fundamentals first before you start new stuff. and that is something which will be a priority of ours in the new administration because without it we cannot have the effective and strong and credible nuclear deterrent we must have. mr. shaw: mr. vice president,
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you have one minute. vice president bush: that is the closest i've of heard the governor of massachusetts come to support anything having to do with nuclear. that's about as close as i've ever heard him. yes the savannah river plant needs to be made more safe. will he join me in suggesting we may need another plant maybe in idaho to take care of the requirements, nuclear material requirements for our defense department? i hope he will. this sounds like real progress here because we've had a big difference on the safe use of nuclear power for our energy base. i believe that we must use clean, safe, nuclear power. i believe that we, the more dependent we become on foreign oil, the less our national security is enhanced and, therefore, i've made efforts to strengthen the domestic oil energy by more incentive going in to look for and find and produce oil. made some incentives in terms of secondary and toishy production but we're going to
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have to use more gas, more coal, and more safe nuclear power for our energy base. so i am one who believes we can and must do what he's talking about now. mr. shaw: ann compton has a question for you. ann: mr. vice president, as many as a hundred official ness this administration have left the government under an ethical cloud. some have been indicted, some convicted. many of the cases have involved undue influence once they are outside of government. if you become president, will you lock that revolving door that has allowed some men and women in the government to come back and lobby the very departments they once managed? vice president bush: i'll apply it to congress, too. i'll do both. because i think -- you see, i am one who i get kidded by being a little old fashioned on these things but i do believe in public service. i believe that public service is honorable and i don't think anybody has a call on people in their administrations going astray. his chief education adviser is in jail. he's in jail because he betrayed the public trust.
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the head of education. , the governor equated the governor to a rotting fish. he said the fish rots from the head down. we need the highest, possible ethical standards. i will have an ethical office in the white house under the president's personal concern. i will see that these standards apply to the united states congress. i hope i will do a good job as one who has had a relatively clean record with no conflicts of interest in his private life as has the governor to exhort young people to get into public service. t there is no corner on this sleaze factor. believe me. i will do my level best to clean it up, recognizing that you cannot legislate morality. i do believe with my record in congress, having led the new congressman to a code of ethics through main emphasis on it in
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full disclosure that i've got a good record. there are more if you want to talk about percentage appointments, more members of congress who have been under investigation percentage wise than people in the executive branch. state presidents have had a hard time. some of his college presidents aren't exactly holier than thou. let's not be throwing stones about it. let's say this isn't democrat or republican and it isn't liberal or conservative. let's vow to work together to do something about it. [applause] mr. shaw: governor, you have one minute to respond. governor dukakis: i agree integrity is not a government issue. it's an american issue. here again i don't know which george bush i'm listening to. wasn't this the mr. bush that supported mr. niese, called james watt an excellent secretary of the interior?
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provided support for some of these people, robert bork, for the supreme court of the united states? we've had dozens and dozens of officials in this administration who left under a cloud, with a special prosecutor on their arm, indicted, convicted. this isn't the kind of administration we need. one of the reasons our selection of a running mate is so important and is such a test of the kinds of standards we'll set it is because it tells the american people it advances the election. just what kind of people we're looking for. mr. bush picked dan quayle. i think that says a great deal about the standards we will set and the quality of people we will pick to serve in our administration. [applause] mr. shaw: to each of you candidates regrettabley i have to inform you we've come to the end of our questions. that's a pity. before i ask the candidates to make their closing remarks, on
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behalf of the commission on presidential debates, i would like to thank all of you for joining us this evening. governor dukakis, yours is the first closing statement. governor dukakis: 28 years ago as a young man just graduated from law school i came to this city and clear across the country to watch john kennedy be nominated for the presidency of the united states right here in los angeles. i never dreamed that some day i would win that nomination and be my party's nominee for president. that's america. that's why i'm proud and grateful to be a citizen of this country. 6 days from today, you and millions of americans will choose two people to lead us into the future as president and vice president of the united states. our opponents say things okay. don't rock the boat. ot to worry.
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they tell us we should be satisfied but we can't be satisfied when we're spending a hundred billion dollars a year on foreign debt much of it going to foreign bankers or when our high school students are dropping out of school or we have 2.5 million of our fellow citizens, one-third of them veterans, homeless and living on streets or in doorways in this country. mr. bush's prescription for our economic future is another tax iveaway to the rich. we can do better than this. not with all of us working alone with government but all of us working together. we ask you for your hands and your hearts and your votes for the 8th of november so we can move forward into the future. we are very grateful to all of you for the warmth and the hospitality you've given to us in your homes and communities all across this country. we love you and we're grateful to you for everything that ou've given to us.
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we hope we'll be serving you in the white house in january of 1989. thank you and god bless you. [applause] mr. shaw: vice president bush, your closing statement, sir. vice president bush: sometimes it does seem a campaign generates more heat than light. let me repeat i do have respect for my opponent, for his family ks for the justifiable pride he takes in his heritage. but we have enormous differences. i want to hold the line on taxes and keep this the longest expansion in modern history going until everybody in america benefits. i want to invest in our children because i mean it when i say i want a kinder and gentler nation. by that i want to have child care for the families, the
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parents have control. i want to keep our neighborhoods much, much better in terms of anticrime. that's why i would appoint judges that have a little more sympathy for the victims of crime and a little less for the criminals. that is why i do feel if some police officer is gunned down that the death penalty is equired. i want those with disabilities to be able to fit into the main stream. there is much to be done. this election is about big things and perhaps the biggest is world peace. i ask you to consider the experience i have had in working with the president who has revolutionized the situation around the world, america stands tall again and and result we are credible have now achieved an historic arms agreement. i'd love to build on that. i'd love to say to my grandchildren four years after my first term ks your grandfather working with the
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leaders of soviet union, with the leaders of europe, was able to ban chemical and biological weapons from the face of the earth. lincoln called this country the ast best hope of man on earth. he was right then and we still are the last best hope of man on earth. and i ask for your support november 8 and i will be a good president working together. we can do wonderful things for the united states and for the free world. thank you very, very much.


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