tv Discussion Focuses on the Future of Libraries CSPAN November 27, 2016 9:50pm-11:01pm EST
the first thing -- no disrespect to anybody -- was homeless and porn. the second is what is it for? freak.er is a library he said last week they advertise that it was so hot, everybody could go to the library. it was library as cooling center. library is a place to sleep during the day. that irks a lot of people. people don't understand it. one of you i spoke to earlier said let's hit head on. let's talk about homelessness and foreign at the library --and porn at the library. at many urbaned libraries, dealing with all kinds of customers and populations is challenging, and we are one of the only free opportunities for people to come out of the cold, the heat,
whatever. in terms of dealing with people who are homeless, we once to make sure we are helping them in their struggle. franciscoce, the san public library as well as many other libraries have social workers on duty to do interventions with homeless folks very libraries have very well thought out rules of conduct. we expect everyone to behave so we have a safe and comfortable environment. that has to do with the issue of pornography, and looking at inappropriate information. our codes of conduct really address that. i have to say, and i have said previous interviews, sorry folks, but people have been looking at pornography and masturbating in public libraries for a long time. we have had to deal with this for a long time. it is just in a different container -- as we say about all
our information. >> there is our information desk there is a visual. >> i can tell you that you may think that a person's homeless by the way that they look, but you do not know that. a placeibraries are where we are trying not to be judgmental on those levels. when we have a budget crisis a few years back at ucla and decided we had to roll back the , we heard from the student association right away that we had some homeless students at ucla -- news to me -- and they were depending on the library as part of their support system at night. i think since a lot of us were surprised to learn this, because you do not necessarily know by looking at people what the situation is that they are dealing with. libraries traditionally are about helping people in a
private way. i do not know the identity of everybody. privacy in the library is a key moment. theou mentioned introduction of a social worker in san francisco. what year was that? we began working with the department of social services when i was working there. that was probably 2004. i believe they now have a full time social worker on staff and has been for several years. it is addressing issues and helping our population. >> at some point, does that possibly dilute the purpose of -- is it some way making librarians and library's responsible for social ills that all of us should be tending to? you guys are so generous that you are going to help? is there a limit to what you can do? >> unfortunately we exist in a system where a lot of the normal services that would support
mental health issues, poverty issues etc. have been stripped away, whether it is the economy or other political decisions. because the library is among the few public assets that is still relatively open, that is inevitably what happens. i think the best libraries realize they can be part of the solution. communitye with partners, whether it is public health workers. some public libraries have a nurse on stash -- on staff. food banks, other kinds of things. a library can be a fundamental platform for a lot of players in the community to come together. we are a wonderful distribution channel not only for information in book or database format, but also in general civic information. >> at no point does tending to social ills make your job -- your primary job, which is presumably archiving and distributing information to the
broader public -- does it ever come into conflict with other aspects of your job? comfortable providing information, whether that is waiting get a meal. we are responsible for providing information. one thing i will say about anyography, if you have available access to free information, it will be used toward some of these more negative ends. new york city introduced their kiosks that replaced public telephone booth. this past week, they announced they would be disabling internet because individuals were using them for pornography. if they had asked librarians about this at the time -- it is the nature of libraries, it is the nature of information. >> and of a public place. >> yes. --there is a survey by pew
69% of respondents say their local libraries contribute a lot to providing a safe place for people to spend time. that 50%surprise me is think they contribute a lot toward creating educational opportunities of all ages. the notion of same space actually had more respondents saying yes then the notion of creating educational opportunities. does that surprise you? >> it actually doesn't. your face well. you look slightly surprised. >> well now, it doesn't surprise me. i say space especially and our contemporary society is more valuable. neutral space. people are seeking that. as much as seeking educational opportunity. >> wended libraries start to
play that role -- winded library start to play that role? the role ofas play say space in our community. a consistentis goal and value to our communities on our behalf. just in terms of the educational statistic, there are many people who may not use libraries or not be as aware of libraries. they certainly don't understand the role libraries play in educating all ages, all levels in our community. ofy folks still think libraries as book warehouses. we have gone far beyond that. depending on who pew was surveying, i don't think everyone understands that we are part of the educational ecosystem and our communities. gas, afterschool weekends, so that educational
role is critical, but i don't think it is as recognized as i would like it to be. i talk about it constantly, that role. >> society shifting. is frontof education of room to an audience. increasingly we are learning how important are learning is. inse are things we have libraries. we are made learning that what we are doing is of educational value. >> i find it odd that you say the link is not really taught. that is the number one link to me. it is all thatnk say space comes before learning? >> i find it a branding issue. i think it is still part of the what is a library for. use does you say this for all of these things. it is a hard thing in america whatyou can't save -- say
something's principal reason for being is. i don't get what your principal reason for being is. so far, it is everything. what don't you do? thing about safe space is maybe more important today. you asked that question to an audience 10 years ago, it may not have resonated the same way. library momentnt for me as a child was being able to have a privacy to go and look up information that was maybe kept from me at home. if you have people who are gay or trans or any number of situations, it is a safe space for people to find out about themselves. >> so it is a safe space intellectually as well? >> absolutely. that may be the library's best brand. people want to contest what is contained in a library because they care what messages people have access to.
what are the classic arguments for the necessity of libraries is that they exist to nurture unenlightened electorate. again, i will just let that lie. i'm obsessed, i'm sorry. is that still true? you're all going to say yes it is, but i'm not going to the library to look up prognostications and opinion pieces and polls in florida today, i'm going on the inter-webs. >> one of the challenges we now face is there are multiple spaces where people are segmenting themselves into. we have private health clubs or any coffeehouse or something. we do not have the opportunity to mix anymore. the public library hope lee remains one of the civic spaces where you encounter people from different perspectives, where you are on a level playing field, where it isn't necessarily a program space.
i think our society is tending to move towards a state where spending less time together, i worry if we continue to play that role, i think city sport libraries and community support libraries, the way that they shouldn't can move for that. >> you mention starbucks. they seek to be a place where people convene and read even. all sorts of the cafe culture. does that in any way diminish the popularity or compete with libraries at all? . -- >> i think it is funny that coffee houses and restaurants are trying to become more neutral spaces where your full transaction is not the menu item. they want you to come in and work and socialize with friends and do lots of different things. that that was comes at a cost. it is funny that they are stealing a lot of the elements that have made libraries what they are.
we have boys love them to do any number of things. however you want to function in toibrary, and you don't have give something to your loyalty cap or order something off of a menu. you could in here and be who you are. i don't know if they are intentionally doing it, but they are certainly taking some of the elements away from libraries. >> i would think when you said there is more corporations seeking to create civic space -- >> at a cost. >> you have to pay for the latte, right? you see it as a potential threat. >> i think it could be a potential threat. i think it could be taken as a comment to a certain extent that we have been doing things the right way for a long time. we hope people become aware that you pay for that freedom in those spaces with your user data , by signing into their wi-fi networks, any one of a number of
things. >> are their efforts afoot in libraries across the country to create new ways to convene people? >> i definitely think there are many ways. we have had a convening role in our history. for instance, many public libraries have embarked on maker spaces, which are really great opportunities to allow kids and families to be creative together. there are many ways we are engaging people. in terms of your question about democracy and how are we supporting democracy, i think that libraries have a great opportunity to really take on a significant role in the community -- as a community facilitator. there is so much dissension in some of our communities as we have segmented groups, and the library can play the role of bringing those controversial groups together. -- and i think
we see this in some areas -- it could be clashing somewhat with are very much respected role of neutrality. neutrality is a huge value for libraries. if we do get into the space of ringing different points of view together, that is a huge service for our community. can also support informational resources to understand those discussions, that we have to make sure we are trained to do that effectively. we don't want to lose that concept of being a neutral place. >> the function of an lightning the electorate will come from something like this, the convening more than simply providing information? >> i do think so. at ucla, we provide a lot of public programming in a libraries. is not just the university community, but on a range of topics that are sometimes designed to highlight
collections we have, especially if they relate to los angeles. depending on the library and the focus, they may be able to audiences that are defined in ways like they want to hear about art from this one art expert, and a look at the paintings in this way next-door. there are different combinations to do that. libraries definitely are very forward in looking at programming and trying to convene in different kinds of interactions. spaces.on do you envision an evolution of this? competition occurs, how are libraries -- will convening be a larger function in 20 years? think we see libraries
already rearranging their spaces so we make available more flexible seating, you can go into a library and rearrange the furniture. librarians don't get mad if you rearrange furniture. >> not anymore. [laughter] >> we see greater opportunity for functional spaces. we see an opportunity for an area that can be a maker day that can have auditorium seating the next day. we went to accommodate the range of activities. the third spacing between work and home, where also the third in what you want us to do yesterday and tomorrow. >> ru you also the most responsive arm of government? >> absolutely. say i know that people love the fire department, but you don't want them to come. are so that libraries beloved and respected by their communities come and i think one
of the challenges is that sometimes folks don't understand that in a way it is good if we are not seen as part of government, because sometimes that is not that positive. on the other hand, i think people generally don't have a very clear understanding about hop public libraries are funded. they see them on the corner, they expect them to be there. ways funded in different that is complicated, and that can be difficult. of theink in terms ability to help our communities and also be a gateway to other government unction f --unctions, the library is the place to do that. myself -- i'm a late adopter to all things, so i have young employees who teach me how to use employee -- how to use computers. i was reading a book on the rwandan genocide. i was reading it on my phone, and it seemed a bit wrong.
candle lamp on my phone, and i was away for my kindle. , but therell read was something -- i don't know -- slightly disrespectful, slightly unfulfilling, it wasn't the sort of relaxing, sensual experience, but it seemed like a slightly diminished reading experience. as a something to that? >> i think there is something to that. i am not a digital native. that is a lot about that is sometimes not comfortable for me. sometimes it is more convenient. when we ask our students would you rather have print books or e-books? they said we would rather have print books because they help us learn better. >> why? >> because they can focus. students have many
devices on at the same time and many apps open. that is the distraction. there is nothing about the book except you and your book. >> is there any research to that effect? i find when i read books on kindle, i often don't know if the title is, and i don't know who the author is. because you're not picking it up and looking. >> the common enemy is not reading. but am i reading in a serious way about genocide on my phone? are as eitherer or, it is both and. >> you think about that, we are
in such a busy culture. say you are reading a particular book. variety ofcan be a things. you are home reading, you want to have a nice experience in your leather chair. but anyone that book on the plane for you so you will want that on the kindle. so read it oris hear the book and you wanted on an audiobook. i think we are often too focused on the format. libraries have adapted to a wide variety of formats over the years. it is all about getting the reading content. how is this tension between digital and print and other media playing out within design?s vis-a-vis a lot of what we are doing right now is finding ways to store the printed books or to collaborate within regions so that we all collectively have
the storage facility where they are all available. that frees up space within the library. >> fewer stacks will be available on-site? >> yes. that is a choice. a printed book in a library in 20 years, it will take you a air to press to get it from the warehouse? but i want to go back. in 20 years, we'll probably have a real have to come to the physical library. >> we will use drones. [laughter] some people say there is something lost because you can grab it on the shelf, you can't touch it. there is no library that is enough to hold all of them anyway. >> unfortunately just asked what that answered one of the questions i wanted to ask. one of the beautiful qualities of a bookstore is serendipity. catsoing to buy a book on but leave buying a book on
birds. that is the beauty of a library. that will go a way. it is going to be the celts describing narrative -- the self subscribing narrative. >> i didn't say would go away, it is going to take a smaller footprint. >> if the stacks are gone, the serendipity -- >> they are not disappearing. there will be collections in materials. when you talk to people who use public libraries, they will often say i love the bookmobile. the collection is one i can just manage. or i like a small branch. i'm not saying they don't like a large variety. we will have collections. experience is about having some material to choose from. you do not need to have miles and miles of stacks because that will not give you that nice browsing experience. go because let that we still care about that an people care about that. we know that e-book reading is leveling off. we knew it would end it is.
people still want to read books and browse. not either or -- both and. what is -- >> what does the loving off mean? is it a fad? >> no, it just means they're not going to be taking over. it is just another container. >> it is not zero-sum? >> it is both. >> looking at facebook this morning, i showed them earlier. is it really that dire? there's something going around, that is why we did this panel tonight. is there any threat to libraries? why would i library and put this on facebook? >> passionate people. i think we started talking about about the library. it has a fundamental brand, which is books.
it works were positive, and enforced by sometimes you are negative. as an people will say we do not need these warehouses of books because we have them online. we're starting to see that, but the fact is that information is changing at a rapid rate, and libraries, and certainly library professionals, have people that are better equipped to navigate that information. we can get rid of a storehouse full of books. that is true. but we cannot get rid of a space allows us to do a lot of different things with a lot of different information. that is necessary to our economy, to learning, everything. >> so there is no threat at all to libraries? it is october senate -- it is all copacetic? -- i think that is a good question. i mentioned earlier on that the
complexity of library funding is something that is not easy to understand. when our elected officials have to make choices, we want to make sure they are informed and make good choices. it is hard. i really do think that library funding, particularly at the local level come at all of our public libraries are probably funded 90% locally. it is what we're doing to make a difference, and we can make the argument at a local level and remain good funding. showing support for libraries? is it steady? >> i think it has been steady. we had a difficult time in the recession, but everybody had a difficult time. we have come back to more stable funding since the recession. many public in libraries around the country, as well as other types of libraries, local funding, foundations, libraries have
begun to be more engaged in fundraising, private fundraising , to help augment public funding. a have really achieved steady-state after the reception -- the recession. >> do you deny that there is some sort of a worry out there in society that libraries may not have the purpose that they once had in the digital age? >> i think there is a trope that people find easy to put in it. out at who checked me the same drugstore that use all the time asked me once what it did for 11 and i told him i was a librarian, and he said i am so sorry. [laughter] and i'm thinking what you say that? >> -- eddies and because you're not going to have a job soon. and i thought maybe you think you don't need a library, but
the fact is that if you are fortunate enough to be able to buy the book that you want to , if you'reon amazon fortunate enough to own your own top computer, if you are fortunate of two subscribe to wireless internet in your home, the maybe libraries are less obvious to you. if you are employed in don't have to seek employment or try to retool yourself for a new you don't think you need libraries. these are things that people do not necessarily associate with libraries because librarians are not the best pr agents for ourselves. is there a sense of their that libraries may become obsolete? >> i think a very simplified understanding of what libraries do, or an integrated idea of what libraries do. it is easy to dismiss that idea. when you hear the wide range of what happens in a k-12 school
library, you become much more aware of how vital way are to our current economy. able to convince the public on a bond measure? >> ono. one of a man talks about a new nostalgia. he talks about this nostalgia, this antiquated view, that is really the challenge. do, but how dowe we create a new nostalgia of people understanding the amazing, enriching roles we play, and having that is their mindset of the library, as opposed to the book warehouse, or somebody standing there with the bun. new nostalgia. >> i like the new nostalgia. digital age, nostalgia it
seems is driven a lot by texture, by intimacy, by moments, by feelings. i never have a feeling with my kindle. the digitizer nationis minimalize. there is not a lot of warmth in a minimalistic age. i wonder if you're going to have a touch time -- a tough time with this new nostalgia. how are you going to do that in these digitized bases with your books? spaces peoplehese want to be in, by making them a comfortable space. , if we have a cousin me might enjoy that. we are creating environments. there are different things you want to do in a library. today, you might want to do one thing. might wantday, you to do another thing. there's a time you just want to
be a lot of thoughts and study and be quiet. there is not a time or maybe want to meet with somebody over coffee and have a conversation. to putway, we decided the cafe inside the library. sushi and espresso. our idea is make it a place where people really want to be. that does build on itself. brewery buildings -- new library buildings. there never really building these kinds of spaces that facilitate the different things you do in your day or the kind of things you want to accomplish. would you want to create or share? that is really the new genius of libraries is really looking at that space for what it is. i was in calgary recently and they were building a new public library and it is really a tremendous offering.
civic optimism about the community and all of the things that all of the people that are going into that space. >> may well, thoughts on design? >> i would go back to the new nostalgia. authorities -- one of the observations there was make his book authors have very thoughts on libraries. part of it is because they have used that space to create something new. i think what of the things that is starting to happen with the democratization of information, is i see it in my own city chicago public library. a lot of young people go to the new media center with a go to information services to produce something new -- a video, whatever it may be. they walk out of there with a new sense of nostalgia because they go through the process of creation. that is what is going to start
it. that process of creation will replace that the textual thing we started with. that is where we took all the information. >> i can't crack these guys. [laughter] >> i second miguel. what does a library look like in 2100, assuming we are still here? >> we will be here. what does it look like? it looks like a welcoming space for all ages. >> come on, specifically what does it look like? is there sushi? the use of space in the future? no more stacks. an areaou will have
over here were kids are creating. you will have an area over here were people are doing all kinds of things together. you will have stacks, you will have some materials. you will have electronic materials. >> do libraries need to be larger in the future? >> that is an interesting question. and you think about the build infrastructure in this country of libraries, it is unbelievable. we have a huge build infrastructure. it is an asset all our communities have. i don't think they necessarily have to get larger, but they have to be more flexible. we need to have some kind of a cafe. we also need a gift shop, to be making some extra revenue. welcoming. >> can you drink coffee at libraries? >> yes. if you put to top on it. >> we don't even care about that anymore. day, there was
some prohibition against it, i think. >> this is a culture change for librarians as much as anyone else. >> you guys have made librarians appeared to be very nimble. are you exceptions? come on, talk bad about somebody. [laughter] to do we're not going that. i will take the opportunity to say that we can celebrate the fact that we have a real live librarian as the librarian of congress. first african-american, first woman. [applause] we are awesome. earlier, is there a threat of losing librarians to new media to silicon valley? are you considering an offer right now to sellout? >> not me. i'm sure younger ones.
the skills that we have in libraries are really marketable skills for all kinds of places. a lot of the folks that come out ,f the university of washington we love them to work in our libraries. one of the challenges as you can make more money in the private sector. that goes back to our funding. >> how his enrollment for library sciences degrees? >> i don't know if you have the latest figures, but now, even silicon valley has perhaps the most valuable degree. >> it might be helpful going into silicon valley? it is a study of information rather than the specificity of a library. there are still masters and library sciences, their masters in communication. they're people who bring outside skills and blend them into the functions of a library. unfortunately, we went through
it economic downturn like the rest of everyone, so beside downturn in available jobs. we're seeing some of those come back. ask you the -- to question of the evening -- do libraries have a future? all of these and quite optimistic. >> we have been around for a long time. >> and we're going to stay. wrong -- itif i'm is about being responsible to public. changes,echnological social needs, social ills, design will shift, format will shift. you will get rid of stacks one day. there is really no reason to worry about libraries. >> weather is a reason to worry about libraries. we cannot exist solely by ourselves. we want people to worry with us.
>> we are nothing without all of you. it is a dynamic. we don't just stand around on our own. we are of the public. is the question -- notion of the bun on the back of the head and a librarian, you guys are savvy. you guys are responsive. perceptionic's broadly of librarians accurate? you guys deal with difficult humans -- myself included -- all the time. the will go back to nostalgia thing. i do not think the perception is accurate. >> what is the perception? we areperception that
quiet, we are unassuming, we just want to shelve the books, that kind of thing. wanted it would've of the bookshelves so you don't have to shelve them anymore. people who are engaged in their communities. we have to be out there getting to know people. they'reat all the time in and to be effective and increase our critical funding, we must be extremely strategic and political. the librarians i know know their communities, know where they are seen as key players in that community. that is where the -- that is where we want to be and need to be. you to respond to that, but unless you have any words, we're going to end. wonderful panel, fun, brilliant, thank you so much for coming. [applause]
[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> now is thanks to questions from all of you. there are two was going round of micro runs. please raise her hand, will come to you. please say her first and last name before the question. this is recorded irs -- recorded by us. you can share with friends, family, students etc.. and that will be nationally broadcast and on their website at some point after the election. first question on the right? i may research and published author, i have a great gestalt
of for the stacks going back to my undergraduate days at a small college in new england. my question is regarding the stacks and the sociability of the space. the ucla library after the absence of a decade, i was shocked. i'm a dinosaur. i saw the cafe and the students in these weird space-age hives. what would happen to the stacks roaming and hopefully finding chemists by accident was my reach of the blood discoveries, i don't find anyone up there. my question for you is what is happening socially to student life if students are not interacting in those stacks?
>> the amount of funds to renovate a space to make it less than 50 years old looking is a lot. and so our money ran out on the second floor. [laughter] >> if we do renovate it so there's enough wi-fi access and enough power and the right kind of furniture that people work confidentably they will be there. i think some of it is just a matter of making it comfortable and functional enough and they will be there. but as i said earlier, right about an hour from now there will be more people up there. it's also a time of day thing. yeah, there's no question. i mean, when you think about some of -- i think about some of the librarys that we used
as a student. and i really would really rather never do that again. it's a slow process unforge -- unfortunately. >> next question on your left. >> my name is brandon barney. i met on benjamin franklin's wikipedia that he invented the first library in america. if your library was burning, which book would you bring out of it? >> well done. [laughter] >> wow. the free library of philadelphia was the first -- there will be discussions about this because i think boston has that claim. >> yeah, boston also claims that. >> but i'm sure that benjamin franklin was doing the right thing there. and man, that's a tough question about. i feel like i wouldn't take out a book. i would get out the fine drawer and take that out. [laughter]
>> it's really impossible. you know, we have a very significant special collection library that i -- when you ask that question, i just starred to freak out. i probably won't be able to sleep tonight. [laughter] i have to go sleep there so i'll be able to get out as many things possible. it's like your children. >> next question son your right. >> i'm not sure i really have a question. i just wanted to say thank you. but first of all, i -- you know, came tonight thinking wow, what is going to happen to banks and libraries and things like that but the truth is i'm a public schoolteacher and i can't tell you how many
times a week i have to tell my students you can go print that at the library. you can type that up at the library and they don't have these resources a home. we're talking about kids k through 12. and i teach high school. thank you for making a place -- i don't know what i'd say to these kist kids if they were like i don't have a printer at home. i don't have a computer at home. that's a really important thing. i don't know what we'd do if we didn't have that. i don't know where i'd tell them to go. thank you. i don't know if you have any comments on that. >> i have one comment. it's something i didn't think about until i got here tonight. >> that's a great comment. we really didn't talk about the role that libraries play in providing access to the internet and other resources. and i think so many of us here have our mobile devices and we have wireless at home and everything at home we don't even think about. there's still 20% if not various populations who don't have access to the internet. it's a critical role that we do. and also in most of our libraries in california are
lucky to have good access to very robust internet so people can do what they need do and they have that broadband access. it's a critical role we play and one of the reasons we're surviving is that broadband access. >> next question on your left. railroads leslie farmer and i know some of your books. i have a couple of comments on what susan just said. i think of library as civic safety nets. one of the things that our schools do having kids write books and they join the library collection. so that becomes part of their contribution to the library that continues, you know, an wards. and also just mention that in the university of long beach which is where i teach that we did renovate so the students
are using all six floors. thank you very much and there are tons of stacks. it we also have compact takes folks five minutes and our stars bucks is in the library. [laughter] so the question that i have -- and so they said "make sure there's question" is what do you think in terms of library education. you're saying wow, those librarians will go into industry. have you considered that they're bringing librarianship and moles and into business where there are information profession? >> could i just jump on that real quickly. i'm sure we have other comments. but i just began teaching graduate students at the university of washington. they just came for their orientation. one of the things that was just absolutely inspirational to me was that most of those kids were there, students were
there because they wanted to make a difference in their community. so whatever that community be it public, academic, business, the fact that students were coming to make a difference in their community inspired me to try to be a good instructor and mentor for them. >> it's where we develop our values for intellectual freedom for equity of access for civic engagement and other types of things and we go and apply that in other different environments in school libraries, in private library or in industry and other things. and certainly as information expands and becomes more available hopefully people will continue to think about the importance of those things even as we see other trends moving in very different. >> i think that, you know, it is kind of amusing to some of us who have been around for a long time when google thought that they invented metadata and they discovered searching.
yeah, they were really excited about. and where were all these geeked out kids studying a long time ago? i think now that more people understand -- i never knew what the word metadata was. almost everybody here has probably heard that word. so teaching information at the graduate level can lead to librarianianship and it can lead to maybe making googol or other search even better. >> next question is on your right. >> my name is noah smith. has been gy changing. wo main examples are the digitazation of books and with the changes of technology kept in mind, do you think there's still a strong need for books
in the physical form or as the future moves on, should library seem more as safe paces and community centers? >> well, i think a lot of us are connected to the physical object stem. i think the printed book form is going to survive. it's a convenient format for the distribution of information. so i think that will continue to be important. one of the great things about libraries. we talked about them is a space for providing fundamental technology services, access to the internet or any other thing. i think people forget that libraries and whatever environment they are usually the first spaces to introduce that new technology into their communities. so 3-d printers have been widely distributed through libraries. we're starting to see libraries distribute other tools. so we balance what's on the
fringe ahead of what are the ea adoptions in consumer and the production. we can do both. it doesn't have to be either/or. >> next question on your left. >> hi, i just want to thank zocal obs. >> i'm a librarian for san diego county. my nerdo-meter is hovering in red right now. so thu so much for putting this together. my question for you all is to sort of address a little bit address and how signs things like that stereotype than most of the public has about libraries. also about how it -- it does impact funding in certain ways. i know in our system it does a little bit. and then finally what the digitization on both
the public perception as well as our funding. i don't want to get too specific but ke do have a cap that our signs address in our funding budget every year. and so as long as we continue to do that we have a fine free day and everything but a lot of libraries can't do that. so i'm wond erring what your thoughts are. >> this is interesting. i'm going to have a discussion with my students about library fines. because you know, we know that loybrare fines fees, whatever, are serving as barrier for a number of users particularly youth and we see that particularly when we're working with school districts and trying to create easy, convenient hard access. on the other hand, many parents and caregivers will say it providesbility as you were talking about your lamb
-- provides responsibility as you were talkingability in laminated cards. the monetarily implication depending on your jurisdictional set up sometimes they go into a general fund. so i don't know. think it's not really about monetarily loss. it's michigan more about the policy discussion about the fines. but i think this is a hot top nibbling libraries today and a number of -- hots topics in libraries and a number of libraries want to eliminate that. i wasn't sure about your uestion about the digitiza tion. >> the book will clear out of your tablet in three weeks. so there's never a fine for digital materials. if more digital items are checked out then that will affect the bottom line at the ends of the physical year.
but i understand how those funds can be broken up. hopefully the public's perception for the need for fines and why that's such a punitive part of their library experiences and how that would help that perhaps. >> why don't you talk -- you were talking about the laminated card that sets a responsibility. fines might be important to your whole notion of responsibility, right? >> well, my mother -- one of my earliest library memories is losing my book and my mother losing her mind. [laughter] but i think susan -- one of the great things about these conversations is that it opens a dialogue with other administrator who is start to understand that libraries are about access and libraries can restrict that access. or about equity and it can
disenfranchise other organization from using the library. these are discussions don't have to happen within the library profession. i think it's best served with being an open dialogue with voters and other number of different people. and the need for community assets that what is owned by the library is owned by the community. a complicated discussion. >> yeah, it's not just library fines. fines in other areas of our community are also under discussion. we're certainly discussing eliminate fines for our student and faculty because it can be a barrier. you know, i think that shining a light on, you know, the funding mechanism for libraries as more people understood that, you know, the fines that you collect actually contribute to your bottom line that that's a source of your funding, that's crazy. because you know, you kind of think, ok that might have made sense one time but that has to
be revisited. so the way that you fund your library is by hoping that more people forget where they left the book. that's a reverse kind of lodge take that doesn't work anymore -- logic that doesn't work nip. >> practically speaking what's the incentive to turn in the book on time? what tools would you use? >> you would go get a point where you didn't return the actual piece of material you would have some kind of a fee. >> it does cost to replace it. >> so we're forced with a fine. >> you have that anyway if you don't bring back a piece of material, you have a replacement cost. and we're talk about the fines. you know the fines also can lead to difficult customer service experiences. and in fact, one of the things that we're doing particularly in public libraries and i'm sure this academic libraries as well is we're trying to empower our front line staff to be able to not feel like they have to enforce ever rule and bring back every nickel
but look at a person's situation and make a determination. it's all about good customer service. i often hear people with those library stories are about some kind of fine incident that they had. and they got in trouble. and we'd like to try to erase those memories. >> if you open, you know, the news every once in a while, there's a story in giant capital letters, 79-year-old matron on life support is take on the the sheriff's department and locked up because she owes library fines. [laughter] that does happen in some places and you know, that really has to stop. >> next question is on your right. >> hi, jill hoskins here. this is a sort of small detail thing about the quality of our experience when we go to our wonderful public libraries especially in central downtown areas or in positive rished areas which is most area of
the u.s. as far as i can tell. and you've talked about rules of conduct and the need to be welcoming to everyone and to help people until a private way. do you have some ideas where they'll show a wonderful film and there's also the bathroom issue and there are some people that smell there very strongly. and they have the right to be there. what solution doss you have so that people do not go to those events because of the rules of conduct or the help you can get doesn't address that kind of issue? >> well, you know, it's interesting -- >> finally. >> it's interesting that you bring that up in the setting about a program. because that is challenging. that's very challenging but that is an issue that we often have to deal with particularly in urban public libraries and
what my philosophy has always been that it's as an individual if another customer patron comes in is concerned about that that often will council the particular individual to try to get a shower or something like that. so that's more of a one-on-one kind of thing. when you're in a public program, i think that is challenging. >> how are the most robust organizationings tend to concentrate in the neighbors
that arguably need them least, and what can better funded libraries and districts do for libraries often not so far away that aren't quite so lucky? >> so i keep -- one of the things that i keep worrying about is incoming equality. it's funny we talk about the growing divide in our population between rich and poor. it becomes interesting that we're starting to see that similar divide in city and in city services and so we have this sort of divide across things. i don't quite know if there's an easy solution for it. one of the -- in talking with outside advocates from lie brares - rye -- lie and share their little advice. they're hard pressed to understand why as a network of libraries we are not more uniform in the delivery of
innovative programs and other types of things. part of it that funding structure complexity that we're locally govern and so each library is unto its own. projects like the digital project of america or other sorts of projects national in scope that would encourage the sharing of innovations, the rapid dissemination from a well funded library to a method that can be used in lots of different libraries would certainly vlad advance what we're doing. but we're -- certainly advance what we're doing. we're limited in that because it's a come plegs funding in government situation that lie -- libraries are. >> we do find ways. but there are much more about moving collections around and making those kinds of resources available. i think they're a lot of work to be done. it's hard work because of that funding structure. you know, if you're funding structure is about your primary community. i always get asked to ucla.
why are you paying so much to the students and faculty? well, because our primary submission to support them but we're also supporting other members of the public as well. it's not always as simple and cut and dry as it might seem. but we just continue to work in that space. and, you know, be glad to work with any one of you to talk about it more. >> that is actually going to conclude our program. i want to thank the city of west hollywood and weho arts and congratulations on five years this program would haven't happened without them. so thank you to them. thank you to our panelists to travel near and far to be here with us tonight. they will continue to be at our reception. everyone is invited. you can ask them for their questions and thank you to c-span for recording tonight's event. thanks tonight to all of you for showing up. and have a fabulous night. thank you. [applause]
[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national able satellite corp. 2016] announcer: on the next "washington journal" steven townsend shares the latest on the fight against isis including efforts by iraqi forces to retake mosul. then max stier talks about the presidential transition process ahead of inauguration day. after that, a look at the future of u.s. nato relations with secretary general anders fogh rasmussen. we'll take your phone calls, tweetses and facebook comments. washington journal is live every day at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span.
>> we're asking students to participate in the documentary community by telling us what is the most urgent issue for donald trump and issues that congress mustards in 2017. it's for grade six through 12. students can work alone or in a group of up to three to produce a five-minute documentary on the issues selected. a grand prize will go to the tudent or team with the best overall entry will be $5,000. prizes. in cash for more information about the competition go to our website, studentcam.orling. -- studentcam.org. >> tomorrow michigan is
experted to certify the votes showing that donald trump won the state by about 10,000 votes. jill stinal can request a recount there. she has raised $5 million to cover the cost of recount. and filed a recount request in wisconsin, friday. the deadline for a pennsylvania request is tomorrow. hillary clinton's lawyer has announced that the clinton will participate in the recount efforts spear headed by third party candidate jill stein. president-elect donald trump has called the recount a scam and criticized democrats for supporting it, saying that hillary clinton conceded the election and should accept the result. the recount and the future of democratic party were topics on the sunday news show. we have comments from kellyanne conway, ohio congressman tim ryan who is challenging nancy pelosi as
house democratic leader. >> why in the world can't the democrats accept the election results? i didn't hear him say secretary clinlton concede but two and a half weeks ago jill stein decides that she should issue a recount raise $7 million bucks and have a recount. jill stein got 33,000 votes. mr. trump got 1.4 million. 33,000 is the number of people who tailgate at a makers game.
it is not a serious effort to change the election results. so the question for the democrats is why are you doing this? and what does president obama think about this recount she raid. he has eight weeks left to finish out his term. i think it's quite small of jill stein and hillary clinton's council and perhaps her to interfere with the last eight weeks of president obama's legacy. president-elect trump and president obama speak regularly. they're trying to move a form of government. it's high time that hillary clinton and her supporters do the same. >> you said after the election that it's over. mr. trump will be the next democrat and democrats must focus on the next reality so are they twrong do this rezphount >> the democrats, martha are not doing the recount. i trust that you know that was initiated by the green party who has every right -- >> i'm aware of that but hillary clinton has joined? . >> well, of course, they join in. it's taking a process.
we will see what happens. it's not a big deal. i don't think anybody will think there will be profound changes. but the focus right now has got be doing everything that we can to address the real issues facing the working family os this country. >> what will change in the democratic party? and is it time for the clintons to just move on? >> you know, we don't have to make this personal, secretary clinton has served this country for 25 years. she got two million more votes than donald trump did in the general election. she has a role to play. but the real issue facing the democratic party is to assess where they are. and they're not in a good place. it's not just the white house. it's the senate, it's the house it's 2/3 of the governor's chair. what i'm trying to do is revitalize the democratic party, bring in the young people. big money people have done a good job. they've done to help. but they can't be the dominant force on the democratic party. they've got to open the doors.
we've got to go through 50 states in the country. >> we've got to figure out how to have the robust economic message and will not communicate. these people left us in droves. they either went for trump or they stayed at home. without good message that connects deeply with them, we were talk about good r issues that their family talks abs when they're sitting at the kitchen table they're never going to come back and we need a leader that can go into those congressional districts and energize those voters we need to show up at the poll. >> maybe you're going to run the governor. nancy pelosi says 2/3 of the caucus has showed up to vote for her. >> that's a lot of consternation and we're making a hell of a run at this thing. i think we have a shot to win. i've been making calls for the last three or four days. people have been home with their family. and people have been saying this has been a changed
election. we want change. there are a lot of members of congress who are understanding that we need to make a change. we can't keep running the same plays. winners win. and we need to put leaders in place to win the house back. we're down 60-something seat since 2010. we have the smallest number since 1929. we've got to do something differently. announcer: follow the transition of government on c-span as donald trump becomes the 45th president of the united states. and republicans maintain control of the u.s. house and senate. we'll take you to key events as they happen without interruption. watch live on c-span. watch on demand on c-span.org or listen on our free c spanl radio app. >> thank you all very much. announcer: tonight on c-span, q&a with author and historian edward larson. that's followed by british
prime minister teresa may taking questions from members of the house of come monls. and later newt gingrich and patrick kennedy discuss ways to combat drug addiction in the u.s. ♪ >> this week on "q&a," pepperdine university professor george larson. hisessor larson discusses book "george washington, nationalist." edward j. larson, author of the book