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tv   Presidential Debates Trump- Biden First Debate  CSPAN  September 29, 2020 11:31pm-1:08am EDT

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host: we are going to have to leave it there. thank you for calling in. now, you can continue to voice your opinions tomorrow morning on the "washington journal" which kicks off at 7:00 a.m. eastern. we will hear your views on tonight's debate. oryou want to watch it again you can look for specific questions and answers by using a search word, go to c-span.org. we have a full debate page set up. you can see archival video from past debates. also recommend you follow us on social media to get updates as well. ofing up now is a re-air tonight's presidential debate from cleveland. here it is. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] the healthning from education campus of case western reserve university and the
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cleveland clinic. ofelcome you to the first the 2020 presidential debates between president donald j. trump and former vice president joe biden. the debate is sponsored by commission on presidential debates. the commission has designed the format with two-minute answers from each candidate to the first question, then open discussion for the rest of each segment. both campaigns have agreed to these rules. for the record, i decided the topics and the questions in each topic. i can assure you that none of the questions have been shared with the commission or the two candidates. this debate is being conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the cleveland clinic, which is serving as the health security advisor to the commission for all four debates. as a precaution, both campaigns have agreed to candidates will not shake hands at the beginning of tonight's debate.
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the audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent, no cheers, no boos or other interruptions, so we and more importantly you can focus on what the candidates have to say. no noise except right now as we welcome the republican nominee, president trump, and the democratic nominee, vice president biden. [applause] vice pres. biden: how are you doing, man? pres. trump: doing well. chris: gentlemen, a lot of people have been waiting for this night, so let's get going. our first subject as the supreme court. president trump, you nominated amy coney barrett over the weekend to succeed the late ruth bader ginsburg on the court.
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you say the constitution is clear about your obligation and the senate's to consider a nominee to the court. vice president biden, you say this is an effort by the president and republicans to jam through an appointment and what you call an abuse of power. my first question to both of you tonight, why are you right in the argument you make and your opponent wrong and where do you think a justice barrett would take the court? president trump, you go first. pres. trump: i will tell you very simply, we won the election. elections have consequences. we have to senate. we have the white house. and we have a phenomenal nominee, respected by all. top academic, good in every way, good in every way. in fact, some of her biggest endorsers are very liberal people.
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from notre dame and other places. so i think she is going to be fantastic. we have plenty of time. even if we did it after the election itself. i have a lot of time after the election, as you know. i think she will be outstanding. she's going to be as good as anybody that has served on that court. we really feel that. we have a highly respected professor at notre dame who said she is the single greatest student he has ever had. we won the election and therefore we have the right to choose her and very few people knowingly would say otherwise. by the way, the democrats would not even think about not doing it. the only difference is they would try to do it faster. there is no way they would try to give it up. they had merrick garland, but the problem is they do not have the election, so they were stopped. and probably that would happen in reverse, also. it would definitely happen in the reverse. we won the election and we have the right to do it. chris: thank you. same question to you, vice president biden. you have two minutes. vice pres. biden: first of all,
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thank you for doing this. and mr. president. pres. trump: thank you. vice pres. biden: the american people have a right to say who the supreme court nominee is and that say occurs when the vote for united states senators and when they vote for the president of the united states. they are not going to get that chance now because we are in the middle of an election already. the election has already started. tens of thousands have already voted. so the thing that should happen is we should wait, we should wait and see what the outcome of the election is. that is the only way the american people get to express their view is by who they elect as president and vice president. now, what is at stake here, the president has made it clear he wants to get rid of the affordable care act. he has been running on that and he has been governing on that. he is in the supreme court right now trying to get rid of the affordable care act, which will
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strip 20 million people from having insurance, health insurance now, if it goes in the court. and the justice -- and i'm not opposed to the justice, she seems like a very fine person -- but she has written before she went to the bench, which is her right, that she thinks the affordable care act is not constitutional. and if struck down, what happens? women's rights are fundamentally changed. once again, a woman could be held for more money if she has a previous condition of pregnancy. they are able to charge a woman more for the same exact procedure. that ended when we in fact passed the affordable care act. there are 100 million people who have pre-existing conditions and they will be taken away as well, those pre-existing conditions, insurance companies are going to love this. it is just not appropriate to do
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this before this election. if he wins the election and the senate is republican, then he goes forward. if not, we should wait until february. pres. trump: there are not 100 million people with pre-existing conditions. as far as the say is concerned, the people already had their say. ok, justice ginsburg said very powerfully, at some point, 10 years ago or so, she said a president and the senate is elected for a period of time, but a president is elected for four years. i'm not elected for three years, so we have to senate, we have a president -- during that period of time, during that period of time, we have an opening. i'm not elected for three years. i'm elected for four years. joe, 100 million people is
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totally wrong. i don't know where you got that number. the bigger problem you have is that you are going to extinguish 180 million people with their private health care. vice pres. biden: that is simply not true. pres. trump: you are going to socialist -- chris: we are now into open discussion. go ahead, vice president. vice pres. biden: number one, he knows what i have proposed. what i have proposed is that we expand obamacare and we increase it, we do not wipe any -- one of the big debates we had with 23 of my colleagues trying to win the nomination that i won, they were trying to say biden wanted to allow people to have private insurance -- private insurance. they can, they will, they do. pres. trump: that is not with the party has said. your party doesn't say --your party wants to go socialist.
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vice pres. biden: my party is me, right now. pres. trump: they are going to dominate you, joe. you know that. vice pres. biden: i'm the platform of the democratic party. the platform is what i approved of. here's the deal, the deal is that it is going to wipe out -- by the way, the 200,000 people that have died on his watch, how many of those have survived? 7 million people have contracted covid. what does it mean for them going forward if you strike down the affordable care act? pres. trump: joe, you have had 308,000 military people die because you could not provide them proper health care in the military, so don't tell me -- if you were here, it would be 2 million people because you were very late on the draw. you did not want to ban china. chris: gentlemen, mr.
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president, mr. president, mr. president, as the moderator, we are going to talk about covid in the next segment. vice pres. biden: let me finish. the point is that the president is also opposed roe v. wade. that is on the ballot as well in the court. so that is also at stake right now. so, the election -- pres. trump: why is it on the ballot? it is not on the ballot. vice pres. biden: it is on the ballot in the courts. pres. trump: there is nothing happening there. you don't know her view on roe v. wade. chris: all right, let's talk -- we got a lot to unpack here. we've got a lot of time. [laughter] on health care and then we will come back to roe v. wade. mr. president, the supreme court will hear a case it week after the election in which the trump administration along with 18 state attorneys general are thinking to overturn obamacare. you have spent the last --
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pres. trump: because we want to give back -- chris: let me ask the question, sir. over the last four years, you have promised to repeal and replace obamacare, but you have never come up with a plan, a comprehensive plan to replace obamacare. pres. trump: of course i have. we got rid of the individual mandate. excuse me. we got rid of the individual mandate, which was a joke. that is a big thing. that was the worst part of obamacare. chris: let me ask my question. pres. trump: i will ask joe. individual mandate was the most unpopular aspect of obamacare. i got rid of it and we will protect people. chris: i'm the moderator of the debate and i would like you to add -- let me ask my question. pres. trump: go ahead, chris. chris: you have never come up with a comprehensive plan to replace obamacare and just this last thursday, you signed a largely symbolic executive order to protect people with pre-existing conditions five days before this debate. my question is what is the trump health care plan? pres. trump: first of all, i guess i'm debating you, not him. but that's ok, i'm not surprised. there is nothing symbolic.
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i'm cutting drug prices, i'm going with favored nations, which no president has done because you were going against big pharma. drug prices will come down 80% or 90%. you have not done it in your 47 year period in government. we are cutting health care. all of the things that we have done -- i give you an example, insulin. it is destroying families, destroying people because i'm getting it for so cheap it is like water, you want to know the truth. take a look at all of the drugs that what we are doing. prescription drug prices, we will allow governors to go to other countries to buy drugs because they pay just a tiny fraction. chris: this is open discussion.
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sir, you will be happy him about to pick up on one of your points to ask the vice president, which as he points out that you would like to add a public option to obamacare and the argument he makes and other republicans make is that that is going to end private insurance. vice pres. biden: it is not. chris: let me finish the question. it will end private insurance and create a government takeover of health care. vice pres. biden: it does not, it is only for people who are so poor all if i for medicaid. they can get that free in most states, except governors who want to deny people who are poor medicaid. anyone who qualifies for medicare -- medicaid, excuse me -- would automatically be enrolled in the public option. the vast majority of the american people would still not be in that option. pres. trump: joe, you agreed with bernie sanders and the far on the manifesto that you would socialize medicine. vice pres. biden: the fact of the matter is i beat bernie sanders. pres. trump: not by much. not by much. vice pres. biden: all he knows how to do -- pres. trump: you got very lucky. vice pres. biden: i'm going to get very lucky tonight, as well. tonight i'm going to make sure -- pres. trump: with what? vice pres. biden: the fact is that everything he is saying so far tonight is simply a lie.
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i'm not here to call out his lies, everybody knows he is a liar. i want to make sure -- i want to make sure chris: mr. president, can you let him finish? vice pres. biden: he doesn't know how to do that. the wrong guy, the wrong night, the wrong time. pres. trump: you agreed with bernie sanders -- vice pres. biden: there is no manifesto. pres. trump: you just lost the left. you just lost the left. you agreed with bernie sanders on a plan -- vice pres. biden: folks, do you have any idea what this clown is doing? pres. trump: socialized medicine. chris: mr. president -- vice pres. biden: he's not for
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any help for people needing health care. because he in fact already has cost 10 million people there health care that they had from employers because of his recession. number two, there are 20 million people getting health care through obamacare now that he wants to take away. that's what he wants to do. take it away. pres. trump: i want to give them better health care at a much lower price. vice pres. biden: he doesn't know how to do that. pres. trump: i've already fixed it. vice pres. biden: he has never offered a plan. [indiscernible] chris: gentlemen, you realize you are both speaking at the same time. go ahead, sir. pres. trump: obamacare is no good. we made it better.
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we took away the individual mandate. we guaranteed pre-existing conditions, but took away the individual mandate. this is the way it is. that destroyed -- they should not even call it obamacare. do i let my people run it really well or badly? if i run it badly, they will probably blame me. but more importantly -- i said, you are going to run it so well. i just had a meeting with them. they say, no matter how well you run obamacare, it is a disaster we get it is too expensive, premiums are too high. it doesn't work. we do want to get rid of it. chris: i understand that, sir. i have to give you roughly equal time. please let the vice president talk. pres. trump: good. vice pres. biden: he has no plan for health care. chris: please. vice pres. biden: he sends out wishful thinking. he has executive orders that have no power. he has not lowered drug costs for anybody. he has been promising health care plan since he got elected. he has none, like almost everything else he talked about. he does not have a plan, he does not have a plan. the fact is that this man does not know what he is talking about. chris: i have one final question for you, mr. vice president. if senate republicans -- we were talking originally about the supreme court -- if senate republicans go ahead and confirm justice barrett, there has been talked about ending the filibuster or even packing the court, adding to the nine justices?
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you call this a distraction by the president, but it was not brought up by the president, it was brought up by some of your democratic colleagues. so my question to you is you have refused in the past to talk about it, are you willing to tell the american people whether or not you will support either ending the filibuster or packing the court? chris: whatever position i take will become the issue. the issue is the american people should speak, you should go out and vote. you are voting now, vote and let your senators know how you feel every good vote now. make sure you let people know. pres. trump: why won't you answer that question? vice pres. biden: because the question is -- pres. trump: the radical left -- chris: gentlemen, i think -- vice pres. biden: this is so in
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presidential. chris: we have ended the segment and we will move on to the second segment. vice pres. biden: that was really a productive segment, wasn't it? pres. trump: the people understand, joe. 47 years, you have done nothing. chris: the second subject is covid-19, which is an awfully serious subject, so let's try to be serious about it. we have had more than 7 million cases of coronavirus in the united states and more than 200,000 people have died. even after we produce a vaccine, experts say it could be months or even years before we come back to anything approaching normal. my question for both of you is based on what you have said and done so far and what you have said you would do starting in 2021, why should the american
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people trust you more than your opponent to deal with this public health crisis going forward? in this case, the question goes to you first, sir. two minutes uninterrupted. vice pres. biden: good luck. 200,000 dead. as you said, over 7 million infected in the united states. we in fact have 4% of the worlds population. 20% of the deaths. 40,000 people a day are contracting covid. in addition to that, between 750 in 1000 people per day are dying. when he was presented with that number he said, it is what it is. because you are who you are. that is why it is. the president has no plan. he has not laid out anything. he knew all the way back in february how serious this crisis was. he knew it was a deadly disease. what did he do? he is on tape acknowledging he knew it. he said he didn't tell us or
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give us a warning because he didn't want to panic the american people. you don't panic, he panicked. he went in and we were assisting the people we had on the ground and china should be able to go to wuhan and determine for themselves how dangerous this was. he did not even ask xi to do that. he told us what a great job xi was doing. he said we owe him a debt of gratitude for being so transparent with us. what did he do then? he waited and waited and waited. he still does not have a plan. i laid out back in march exactly what we should be doing. i laid out again in july what we should be doing.
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we should be providing all of the protective gear possible. we should be providing the money the house has passed to go out and get people to help they need to keep their businesses open. it costs a lot of money. you get out of your bunker and get out of the sand trap and out of your golf course and go in the oval office and bring together the democrats and republicans and fund what needs to be done to save lives. chris: you have two minutes, sir. pres. trump: if we would have listened to you, the country would have been left wide open, millions would have died and one person is too much. it is china's fault. it should have never happened. by the way, when you talk about numbers, you don't know how many people died in china, you don't know how many people died in russia or india. they don't give you straight counts. but if you look at what we have done, i closed it and you said he is xenophobic, he is a racist and he is xenophobic -- chris: two minutes. pres. trump: you did not think we should have closed our country because you thought it was terrible, you would not have closed it for another two months. in fact, dr. fauci said president trump saved thousands of lives -- many of your democratic governors said, president trump is a phenomenal -- did a phenomenal job. go take a look.
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the governors set i did a phenomenal job. most of them said that. in fact, people that would not necessarily be on my side said that, president trump did a phenomenal job. we did. we got the gowns, we got the masks, we made the ventilators. you would not have made ventilators and we are weeks away from a vaccine, we are doing therapeutics. fewer people are dying when they get sick, far fewer are dying, we have done a great job. the only thing i haven't done a good job and that is because of the fake news -- no matter what you say to them, they give you bad press. they give you good press, they give me a bad press because that is the way it is. let me tell you something, i don't care, but you could never have done the job, you don't have it in your blood, you could never have done that job. vice pres. biden: i know how to do the job. pres. trump: you did not do very well on swine. h1n1, you are a disaster. vice pres. biden: 14,000 people died, not 200,000.
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[indiscernible] chris: you made a point, let him answer. vice pres. biden: we did not shut down the economy. this is his economy that he shut down. the reason it is shut down is because -- look, your folks at home, how many of you got up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because somebody died of covid? comedy if you are in a situation where you lost your mom or dad or could not speak to them with a nurse holding the phone up so you could say goodbye? pres. trump: we would have lost four more people, far more people. vice pres. biden: by the way, his own cdc director says we could lose as many as another 200,000 people between now and the end of the year. he said if we just wear a mask, we could save half those numbers. just a mask. by the way, in terms of the whole notion of a vaccine, we are for a vaccine, but i don't trust him at all, nor do you. we trust the scientists. chris: gentlemen, gentlemen, let
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me move on to questions about the future because you both have touched on two of the questions i'm going to ask. focusing on the future, president trump, you have repeatedly at contradicted or been at odds with some of your government's top scientists. the week before last of the head of the cdc said it would be summer before the vaccine would become generally available to the public. you said that he was confused and mistaken. those are your words. but the head of your operation warp speed has said exactly the same thing. are they both wrong? pres. trump: i've spoken to the companies and we can have it a lot sooner. it is a very political thing because people like this with itwould rather make political then save lives. i've spoken to pfizer, i've spoken to all of the people you have to speak to. moderna, johnson & johnson, and others. they can go faster than that by a lot.
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become very political because the left or right don't know -- chris: the head of your operation warp speed? pres. trump: i disagree with both of them. he didn't say that. he said it could be there, but it could also be much sooner. chris: he talked about the summer before it is generally available, sir. pres. trump: he said it is a possibility we will have the answer before november 1. chris: i'm talking about when it is generally available. pres. trump: we are going to deliver it right away. we will have the military logistically set up. we have our military that delivers soldiers and they can do 200,000 a day. vice pres. biden: this is the same man that i told you -- that'll be by easter it would be gone away, that it would be like a miracle. maybe you could inject some bleach in your arm and it would take care of it. pres. trump: that was sarcastic, you know that. vice pres. biden: here's the deal, this man is talking about a vaccine.
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every serious company is talking about maybe having a vaccine done by the end of the year. the distribution will not occur until the beginning or middle of next year to get it out, if we get the vaccine and pray god we will. chris: mr. vice president, i want to pick up on this question. you said the public can trust the scientists, but they can't trust president trump. you said that tonight. your running mate senator harris goes further, saying that public health experts will be muzzled, will be suppressed. given the fact that polls already show that people are concerned about the vaccine and are reluctant to take it, are you and your running mate contributing to that fear? vice pres. biden: no more than the question you just asked. he puts pressure and disagrees with his in scientists. chris: but you are saying -- senator harris is saying you
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can't trust the scientists. vice pres. biden: she did not say that. chris: she said public health experts will be muzzled and suppressed. vice pres. biden: that is what he is going to try to do, but there are millions, thousands of scientists doubt their like here at this great hospital the don't work for him. their job doesn't depend on him. they are the people -- pres. trump: but scientists that are in charge will have the vaccine very soon. vice pres. biden: if you believe for a moment what he is telling you in light of all the lies he has told you about the whole issue relating to covid -- he still has not even acknowledged that he knew this was happening, knew how dangerous it was going to be back in february and he did not even tell you. he is on record as saying it. he panicked or he just looked at the stock market. one of the two. guess what? a lot of people died and a lot more are going to die unless he gets a lot smarter, lot occur. quicker.
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pres. trump: did you use the word smart? so you said you went to delaware state, but you forgot the name of your college. you did not go to delaware state. you graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. don't ever use the word smart with me. vice pres. biden: give me a break. pres. trump: you know what, there is nothing smart about you, joe. 47 years, you've done nothing. vice pres. biden: let's have this debate. pres. trump: let me tell you something, if you would have had the charge of what i was put through -- i had to close the greatest economy in history of our country and now it is being built again. chris: we are going to the economy in the next segment, sir. pres. trump: it is going up fast. chris: when it comes to how the virus has been handled so far, the two of you have taken very different approaches and this is going to affect how the virus is handled going forward by whichever of you ends up becoming the next president. i want to go through several of those. reopening's. vice president biden you have been much more reluctant than president trump about reopening the economy and schools. why? vice pres. biden: because you
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vice pres. biden: because he doesn't have a plan. you've got to provide these businesses the ability to have the money to be able to reopen with the ppe, as well as with the sanitation they need. you have to provide -- pres. trump: tell that to nancy pelosi. vice pres. biden: why don't you just shush for a minute? nancy pelosi and chuck schumer have a plan. you won't even meet with them. the republicans won't meet with them in the senate. he sits in his golf course. literally, think about it -- pres. trump: you probably play more than i do, joe. chris: what about the question of reopening? pres. trump: he wants to shut down this country and i want to
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keep it open. wait a minute, joe, let me shut you down for one second. he wants to shut down the country. we just went through it. we had to because we didn't know anything about the disease. now we found that elderly people with heart problems and diabetes and different problems are very, very vulnerable. we learned a lot. young children aren't. even young people aren't. we've learned a lot. he wants to shut it down. more people will be hurt by continuing -- you look at pennsylvania, you look at certain states that have been shut down -- they have democrat governors all -- one of the reasons they have shut down is because they want to keep it shut down until after the election. chris: i want to move to another segment. vice pres. biden: i've got to respond. chris: i want to move onto another subject. pres. trump: those states are not doing well that shut down. vice pres. biden: i want to respond to that. chris: president trump, you have begun to increasingly question the effectiveness of masks as a disease preventer and you have cited the issue of waiters touching their masks and touching plates. -- you questioning pres. trump: no, i think the masks are ok. i have a mask right here. i will put a mask on when i
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think i need it. tonight is an example, everybody has had a test and you have had social distancing and all of the things that you have needed. i don't wear masks like him. every time you see him, he's got a mask. he could be speaking 200 feet away and he shows up with the biggest mask i've ever seen. chris: vice president biden, go ahead, sir. vice pres. biden: look, the way to open businesses is to give them the wherewithal to be able to open. we provided money -- chris: i was asking about masks. vice pres. biden: masks make a big difference. his own head of the cdc said if we wore a mask between now and social distancing between now and january, we would probably save up to 100,000 lives. it matters. pres. trump: they have also said the opposite. they have also said the opposite. vice pres. biden: no serious person said the opposite. no serious person. pres. trump: dr. fauci said the opposite. vice pres. biden: he did not say the opposite. pres. trump: he said masks are not good, then he changed his mind. i'm ok with masks. chris: i want to ask about one last subject. your different approaches have even affected the way you have campaigned.
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president trump, you are holding the large rallies with crowds packed together, thousands of people. pres. trump: outside. chris: yes, agreed. vice president biden, you are holding much smaller events pres. trump: nobody will show up. [laughter] it's true. nobody shows up to his rallies. chris: in any case, why are you holding the big rallies, why are you not? you go first, sir. pres. trump: because people want to hear what i have to say. i will have 25,000, 35,000 people show up at airports, we use airports. chris: are you not worried about covid-19? pres. trump: so far, we have had no problem whatsoever. it is outside, it is a big difference, according to the experts. we do them outside, we have tremendous crowds, as you see. and literally on 24 hours notice. and joe does the circles and has three people someplace. vice pres. biden: by the way,
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did you see one of the last big rallies he had? a reporter came up to him to ask him a question he said, no, stand back, put on your mask, have you been tested? i'm way far away from those other people. that is what he said. i'm going to be ok. he is not worried about you, he's not worried about the people out there. pres. trump: no negative effect. we've had no negative effect. we have had 35,000, 40,000 people. chris: i want to move on to our next segment. vice pres. biden: he has been totally responsible the way in which he has handled the social distancing and people wearing masks, basically encouraging them not to. and he is a fool on that. pres. trump: if you could get the crowds, you would have done the same thing. but you can't. nobody can. nobody cares. chris: can we move on to the economy? pres. trump: yes. chris: the economy is recovering faster than expected from the shut down in the second quarter. the unemployment rate fell to 8.4% last month. the federal reserve says the hit to growth, which is going to be there, is not going to be nearly
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as big as they had expected. president trump, you say we are in a v-shaped recovery. vice president biden, you say it is more of a k-shape. what difference does that mean to the american people in terms of the economy? president trump, you go first. pres. trump: so, we built the greatest economy in history, we closed it down because of the china plague. we closed it down, which was very hard psychologically to do. he did not think we should close it down and he was wrong. 2 million people would be dead instead of still 204,000 is too much, one person is too much. should have never happened from china. but what happened is we closed it down and now we are reopening and we are doing record business. we had 10.4 million people in a four-month period that we have put back into the workforce. that is a record the likes of which nobody has ever seen before and he wants to close down, he would shut it down
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again, he wants to destroy this country. a lot of people between drugs and alcohol and depression, when you start shutting it down, you take a look at what is happening to some of your democrat run states where they have these tough shutdowns. i'm telling you it is because they don't want to open it -- one of them came out last week, we are going to open up on november 9 because it is after the election. they think they are hurting us by keeping them closed. they are hurting people. people know what to do. they can social distance, they can wash the hands, they can wear masks, they can do whatever they want, but they've got to open these states up. when you look at north carolina and these governors are under siege -- pennsylvania, michigan, and a couple of others -- you've got to open these states up. it is not fair. it is all most like being in prison. you look at what is going on with divorce, you look at alcoholism and drugs, it is a very, very sad thing and he will close down the whole country. this guy will close down the whole country and destroy our country. our country is coming back incredibly well, setting records as it does it. we don't need somebody to come
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in and say, let's shut it down. chris: you say it is a k shaped recovery. vice pres. biden: the difference is millionaires and billionaires like him in the middle of the covid crisis have done very well. billionaires have made another $300 billion because of his profligate tax proposal. but you folks at home, you folks living in scranton and claymont and all the small towns and working-class towns in america, how are you doing? this guy paid a total of $750 in taxes. chris: sir -- no -- you have agreed to the two minutes, so please let him have it. vice pres. biden: do i get my time back? the fact is that he has in fact worked on this in a way that he is going to be the first president in the united states to leave office having fewer
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jobs in his administration than when he became president. fewer jobs than when he became president. history. in american secondly, the people who have lost their jobs are those people who have been on the front lines. those people who have been saving our lives, those people who have been out there dying, people who have been putting themselves in the way to make sure that we could all try to make it. the idea that he is insisting that we go forward and open when you have almost half the states in america with a significant increase in covid deaths and covid cases in the united states of america and he wants to open it up more. why does he want to open it up? you can't fix the economy until you fix the covid crisis. he has no intention of doing anything about making it better for you all at home in terms of your health and your safety. schools, why aren't schools open? because it costs a lot of money to open safely.
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you know, they were going to give, his administration was going to give the teachers and school students masks, then they decided, no, couldn't do that because it is not a national emergency. not a national emergency. they have done nothing to help small businesses, nothing. they are closing. one in six is now gone. he ought to get on the job and take care of the needs of the american people so we can open safely. chris: your time is up, sir. pres. trump: can i respond to that? chris: you both had two minutes, sir. pres. trump: excuse me, he made a statement. chris: so did you. pres. trump: people want their schools open. they don't want to be shut down. they want their restaurants. i look at new york, it is so sad what is happening, it is in most like a ghost town and i'm not sure it can never recover. people want their places open, they want to get back to their lives. they will be careful. they want their schools. i'm the one that brought back football. i brought back big ten football. it was me -- and i'm very happy to do it -- the people of ohio are very proud of me.
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chris: we are going to get to your economic plans going forward in a moment. but first, mr. president, as you well know, there was a new report that in 2016, the year you were elected president and 2017, your first year as president, that you paid $750 a year in federal income tax each of those years. i know that you pay a lot of other taxes, but i'm asking you the specific question. is it true that you paid $750 in federal income taxes each of those two years? pres. trump: i paid millions of dollars in taxes. millions of dollars of income tax. and let me just tell you, there was a story in one of the papers -- i paid $38 million one year. i paid $27 million one year. vice pres. biden: show us your tax returns. pres. trump: you will see it as soon as it is finished. go to the board of elections, there is a 118 page report that
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says everything i have, every bank i have, i'm totally under leveraged because the assets are extremely good and we have -- i built -- chris: i asked you a specific question. i understand all of that. no, mr. president, i'm asking you a question. will you tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes in 2016 and 2017? pres. trump: millions of dollars. chris: you paid millions of dollars? so not $750? pres. trump: you will get to see it. vice pres. biden: when? next july? pres. trump: it was the tax laws -- i don't want to pay tax -- before i came here, i was a private developer, i was a private business people. like every other private person, unless they are stupid, they go through the laws and that is what it is. he passed the tax bill that gave us all these privileges for depreciation and for tax credits. we build a building and we get tax credits like a hotel on pennsylvania avenue.
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which, by the way, was given to me by the obama administration, if you can believe that. now, the man got fired right after that happened. chris: vice president biden? vice pres. biden: i do want to respond. look, the tax code that put him in a position that he pays less tax than a schoolteacher makes -- than the money a schoolteacher makes is because he says he's smart because he can take advantage of the tax code and he does take advantage of the tax code. that's why i'm going to eliminate the trump tax cuts. i'm going to eliminate those tax cuts and make sure we invest in the people who need the help. people out there need help. pres. trump: but why didn't you do it in the last 25 years? vice pres. biden: because you were the president screwing things up. pres. trump: you were a senator -- vice pres. biden: you are the worst president america has ever had. come on! pres. trump: i've done more in 47 months then you've done in 47 years, joe. we've done things that you never even thought about, including
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fixing the broken military you gave me. chris: mr. president, we are talking about the economy. i would like to ask about your plans going forward because mr. vice president, your economic plan, if you were to be elected president, focuses a lot on big government, big taxes, big spending. i want to focus first on the taxes. you propose more than $4 trillion over a decade in new taxes on individuals making more than $400,000 a year and on corporations. president trump says that that kind of an increase in taxes is going to hurt the economy as it is just coming out of a recession. vice pres. biden: well, just take a look at the analysis done by wall street firms. it points out that my economic plan would create 7 million more jobs than his in four years. number one. and number two, it would create an additional $1 trillion in economic growth because it would be about buying american.
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the federal government spends $600 billion a year on everything from ships to build steel, buildings, and the like. under my proposal, we are going to make sure that every penny of that has to be made by a company in the u.s. chris: i'm talking about taxes, not spending. vice pres. biden: by the way, i'm going to eliminate a significant number of taxes -- i'm going to make the corporate tax 28%. you have 91 companies in the fortune 500 who don't pay a single penny in tax making billions of dollars. pres. trump: why didn't you do it when you were vice with obama? vice pres. biden: because you in fact passed that. pres. trump: i got it done. our economy boomed. chris: mr. president, let me pick up on that. you would continue your free market approach, lower taxes,
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more deregulation, correct? vice pres. biden: not lower taxes for the american people. chris: you talk about the economy booming. it turns out that in obama's final three years as president, more jobs were created, 1.5 million more jobs than in the first three years of your presidency. pres. trump: they had the slowest recovery since 1929. it was the slowest recovery. also, they took over something that was down here, all you had to do is turn on the lights and you pick up a lot. they had the slowest economic recovery since 1929. let me tell you about the stock market. when the stock market goes up, that means jobs. it also means 401k's. if you got in, if you ever became president with your ideas, you want to terminate my taxes, i tell you what -- you will lose half of the companies that have come in here will leave. the companies that were already here will leave for other places and you will have a depression the likes of which you have never seen. vice pres. biden: look, we inherited the worst recession short of a depression in
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american history. i was asked to bring it back. we were able to have an economic recovery that created the jobs you are talking about. we handed him a booming economy. he blew it. he blew it. pres. trump: it wasn't booming. it was the weakest recovery -- chris: sir, is it fair to say he blew it when there was record low unemployment before covid? vice pres. biden: because what he did even before covid, manufacturing went in the hole, manufacturing went in the hole. number two. number three -- pres. trump: you were on number two. chris, they said it would take a miracle to bring back manufacturing. i brought back 700,000 jobs. they brought back nothing. they gave up on manufacturing. vice pres. biden: i'm the guy that brought back the automobile industry. i was asked to bring back chrysler and general motors, brought them back right here in the state of ohio and michigan. he blew it, they are gone, he blew it.
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pres. trump: ohio had the best year it has ever had last year. michigan had the best year they have ever had. vice pres. biden: that is not true. pres. trump: many car companies came in from germany, went into michigan and ohio. chris: mr. vice president, go ahead. vice pres. biden: so you take a look at what he has actually done. he has done very little. his trade deals are the same way. he talks about these great trade deals, he talks about the art of the deal, china has perfected the art of the steel. -- steal. we have a higher deficit with china than we did before. we have the highest trade deficit pres. trump: china ate your lunch, joe. no wonder, your son goes in and he takes out billions of dollars, takes out billions of dollars to manage, he makes millions of dollars. while we are at it -- just out of curiosity -- the mayor of moscow's wife gave your son $3.5 million -- what did he do to deserve it? vice pres. biden: none of that is true. none of that is true. pres. trump: oh really?
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chris: mr. president, mr. president, please. vice pres. biden: totally discredited. pres. trump: by the way, he did not get $3.5 million? he got $3.5 million. vice pres. biden: it is not true. pres. trump: really? chris: it is an open discussion. pres. trump: it is a fact. vice pres. biden: totally discredited. pres. trump: making $183,000 a month with no experience in energy? vice pres. biden: my son did nothing wrong at burisma. chris: mr. president, let him answer. vice pres. biden: he does not want to let me answer because he knows i have the truth. his position has been totally discredited. by the media, by our allies, by the world bank. by everyone. it has been discredited. as a matter of fact, even the people who testified under oath -- chris: i'm listening to you.
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pres. trump: $3.5 million from moscow. vice pres. biden: people who testified under oath in his administration said, i did my job and i did it very well. pres. trump: i want to know who they are. vice pres. biden: i will give you the list of people who testified. you have already fired most of them because they did a great job. chris: wait a minute, you get the final word. vice pres. biden: it is hard to get any word in with this clown. chris: no, no, no, mr. president. pres. trump: why did he deserve $3.5 million from moscow? vice pres. biden: here's the deal. we want to talk about families and ethics, i don't want to do that. i mean, his family we could talk about all night. [indiscernible] [indiscernible crosstalk] vice pres. biden: this is not about my family or his family, it is about your family, the american people.
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it does not want to talk about what you need. you, the american people. it is about you. that is who we are talking about. chris: that is the end of the segment, we are moving on. pres. trump: can i be honest? it is very important to try to be honest. chris: the answer to the question is no. sir. pres. trump: ukraine, with $1 billion -- vice pres. biden: that is absolutely not true. chris: gentlemen, i hate to raise my voice -- why should i be different than the two of you? vice pres. biden: good point. chris: we have six segments. we have ended that segment, we are going to go to the next segment. in that segment, you are each going to have two uninterrupted minutes. mr. president, you can say anything you want. i'm going to ask a question about race, but if you want to answer about something else, go ahead, but i think the country would be better served if we allowed both people to speak
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with fewer interruptions. i'm appealing to you, sir, to do that. pres. trump: and him, too. chris: frankly, you have been doing more interrupting. less than you have. let's please continue on. the issue of race. vice president biden, you say that president trump's response to the violence in charlottesville three years ago when he talked about very fine people on both side was what directly led you to launch this run for president. pres. trump: oh yeah, sure. chris: president trump, you have often said you believe you have done more for black americans than any president with the possible exception of abraham lincoln. pres. trump: true. chris: my question for the two of you is why should voters trust you rather than your opponent to deal with the race issues facing this country over the next four years? vice president biden, you go first. vice pres. biden: it is about equity and equality. it is about decency.
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it's about the constitution. we have never walked away from trying to require equity for everyone, equality for the whole of america. but we have never accomplished it. but we have never walked away from it like he has done. it is true the reason i got in the race, close your eyes, remember those people carrying torches, their veins bulging, spewing anti-semitic bile, accompanied by the ku klux klan. a young woman got killed. they asked the president and he said there were very fine people on both sides. no president has ever said anything like that. chris: sir. vice pres. biden: the second point i would make to you is that when mr. floyd was killed, there was a peaceful protest in front of the white house. what did he do? he came out of his bunker, had the military use teargas on them, so he can walk across to a church and hold up a bible. and what happened after that?
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the bishop of that very church said it was a disgrace. the general who was with him said all he ever wants to do is divide people, not unite people at all. this is a president who has used everything as a dog whistle to try to generate racist hatred, racist division. this is a man, you talk about helping african-americans, one in 1000 african-americans has been killed because of the coronavirus. if he does not do something quickly by the end of the year, one in 500 will have been killed. one in 500 african-americans. this man, this man is the savior of african-americans? this man cares at all? this man has done virtually nothing. look, the fact is that you have to look at what he talks about. you have to look at what he did. the fact is you have to look at what he did and what he did has been disastrous for the african-american community. chris: president trump, you have two minutes. why should americans trust you
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over your opponent to deal with race? pres. trump: you did the crime bill, 1994 where you called them super predators, african-americans, super predators. they have never forgotten it, joe. chris: sir, it is his two minutes. pres. trump: you did that and called them super predators, and i'm letting people out of jail now that you have treated the african-american population, community, you have treated the black community about as bad as anybody in this country. and that is why -- if you look at the polls -- i'm doing better than any republican has done in a long time because they saw what you did. you called them super predators and you have called them worse than that because you look back at your testimony over the years, you have called them a lot worse than that. as far as the church's concern and the general, we just got the support of 250 military leaders and generals, total support. law enforcement, almost every law enforcement group in the united states, i have florida, i have texas, i have ohio, i
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have -- excuse me, portland, the sheriff just came out today and he said, i support president trump. i don't think you have any law enforcement. you can't even say the word law enforcement because if you say those words, you are going to lose all of your radical left supporters. why don't you say the words law enforcement? if they called us in portland, we would put out that fire in half an hour, but they won't do it because they are run by radical left democrats. if you look at chicago, if you look at any you want to look, seattle, they heard we were coming the following day and they put up their hands and we got back seattle. minneapolis, we got it back, joe, because we believe in law & order. but you don't. the top 10 cities and just about the top 40 cities are run by democrats and in many cases radical left and they've got you wrapped around their finger, joe, to the point where you don't want to say anything about law & order. i tell you what, the people of this country want and demand law & order and you are afraid to even say it. chris: all right, i want to
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return to the question of race. vice president biden, after the grand jury in the breonna taylor case decided not to charge any of the police with homicide, you said it raises the question whether justice could be equally applied in america. do you believe that there is a separate but unequal system of justice for blacks in this country? vice pres. biden: yes, there is. there is systemic injustice in this country. in education, and work, and in law enforcement, and the way it is enforced. but look, the vast majority of police are good, decent honorable men and women. they risk their lives every day to take care of us. but there are bad apples, but when they find them, they have to be sorted out, they have to be held accountable, they have to be held accountable. what i'm going to do as
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president of the united states is call together an entire group of people at the white house, everything from the civil rights groups to the police officers to the police chiefs, and we are going to work this out. so we change the way in which we have more transparency and when these things happen -- these cops aren't happy to see what happened to george floyd -- these cops aren't happy to see what happened to breonna taylor. most don't like it, but we have to have a system where people are held accountable. by the way, violence in response is never appropriate. never appropriate. peaceful protest is. pres. trump: what is peaceful protest? when they run through the middle of town and burn down your stores and kill people all over the place? but you say it is. chris: president trump -- i promise we will get to the issue of law & order in a moment. this month, your administration directed federal agencies to end racial sensitivity training that addresses white privilege or critical race theory. why did you decide to do that, to end racial sensitivity
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training and do you believe that there is systemic racism in this country? trump: because it's racist and a lot of people were complaining that they were asked to do things that were absolutely insane. it was a radical revolution taking place in our military, in our schools, all over the place, and you know it. chris: what is radical about racial sensitivity training? pres. trump: if you were a certain person, you had no status in life. it was sort of a reversal. we would pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach very bad ideas and frankly very sick ideas, and they were teaching people to hate our country. i'm not going to allow that to happen. we have to go back to the core values of this country. they were teaching people that our country is a horrible place, racist place, and they were teaching people to hate our country.
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vice pres. biden: nobody is doing that. he's yththe racist. [crosstalk] the fact is there is racial insensitivity. people have to be made aware of what other people feel like, what insults them, what is demeaning to them. it's important for people to know -- many people don't want to hurt other people's feelings, but it makes a big difference. it makes a gigantic difference in the way a child is able to grow up and have a sense of self-esteem. it's a little bit like how this guy and his friends look down on so many people. they look down on irish catholics like me who grow up in scranton. they looked down on people who don't have money.
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they look down on people who are of a different faith, a different color. in fact, we are all americans. the only way we are going to bring this country together is to bring everyone together. we can take this on, and we can defeat racism in america. pres. trump: during the obama-biden administration, there was division. there was hatred. you look at ferguson. look at oakland. look what happened in oakland. look what happened in baltimore. frankly, it was more violent than what i am seeing now. the democrats who run of these cities don't want to talk like you about law and order. are you in favor of law and order? [crosstalk] chris: let him finish. vice pres. biden: yes, i'm in favor of law and order! law and order with justice where people get treated fairly, and the fact of the matter is violent crime went down 17% in our administration. it's gone up on his watch. [crosstalk]
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down muchp: it went more in ours. chris: mr. president, we are now going to talk about law and order. pres. trump: democratic-led cities -- chris: there's been an increase in homicides in america this summer particularly, and you often blame that on democratic mayors and governors, but in fact there have been equivalent spikes in republican-led cities like tulsa and fort worth. is this really a party issue? pres. trump: i think it is a party issue. coup,e ole ofin a examples. if you look at chicago, what is going on in chicago where 53 people were shot and eight died. if you look at new york where it's going up like nobody's ever seen anything. the numbers are going up 150%, 200%. it's crazy what is going on, and he doesn't want to say law and order because he will lose his radical left supporters. overhe does that, it's
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with. if he ever got to run this country and they ran it the way he wants to run it -- [crosstalk] pres. trump: our suburbs would be gone. vice pres. biden: he wouldn't know a suburb unless you took a wrong turn. i was raised in the suburbs. this is not 1950. all of these dog whistles don't work anymore. suburbs are by and large integrated. there are many people driving their kids to soccer practice who are black and white and hispanic in the same car as there has been in any time in the past. what really is a threat to the suburbs and their safety is his failure to deal with covid, his failure to deal with the environment. they are being flooded and burned out. that is why the suburbs are in trouble. chris: i do want to talk about this issue of law and order, and in the joint recommendation that came from the biden and bernie sanders task force, you talked about "reimagining policing."
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first of all, what does reimagining policing mean, and do you support the black lives matter call for community control of policing? vice pres. biden: look, what i support is the police having the opportunity to deal with the problems they face. i am totally opposed to defunding the police officers. as a matter of fact, the only one defunding police is his budget calls for a $400 million cut in local law enforcement assistance. they need more assistance. they need to have someone along with them who is a psychologist or psychiatrist to keep them from using force. we need to have community policing like we had before where officers get to know the people in the communities. that is when crime went down. it didn't go up. it went down.
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engaged --to be pres. trump: that's not what they are talking about. he is talking about defunding the police. vice pres. biden: that is not true. pres. trump: he has no law enforcement support. vice pres. biden: that is not true. pres. trump: who do you have? name one group that supports you. go ahead. think. we have time. vice pres. biden: we do not have time. chris: gentlemen, i am going to take back the microphone. i want to get to another subject, which is the issue of protests in many cities that have turned violent. in portland, oregon, we had more than 100 straight days of protests, which i think you would agree -- many of those turned to riots. mr. vice president, you say that people who commit crimes should be held accountable. the question i have is, as the democratic nominee -- you said you are the democratic party right now -- have you ever
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called the democratic mayor of portland or the governor of oregon and said, you've got to stop this? bring in the national guard. do whatever it takes, but stop the days and months of violence in portland. vice pres. biden: i don't hold public office now. i'm a former vice president. i've made it clear in my public statements that violence should be prosecuted. chris: you've never called for the -- you have never called for the leaders in portland and in oregon to call in the national guard and knock out 100 days of riots. vice pres. biden: they can take care of it if he would stay out of the way. pres. trump: oh really?
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the killer of the young man in the middle of the street, they shot him. chris: president trump -- go ahead, sir. vice pres. biden: his former spokesperson said, riots and chaos and violence help his cause. that is what this is all about. pres. trump: i don't know who said that. vice pres. biden: kellyanne conway. she said that. here's the point. the point is he keeps trying to rile everything up. he doesn't want to calm things down. instead of going in and talking to people and saying, let's get everybody together, figure out how to deal with this, what does he do? he pours gasoline on the fire constantly. chris: to button up this segment, i'm going to give you a minute to answer, sir. pres. trump: i have to answer his statement. chris: you've been talking. you know what? if you want to switch seats, we can do that. pres. trump: the national guard will be over there. no problem. they don't want to accept the national guard.
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chris: you have repeatedly criticized the vice president for not specifically calling out antifa and other left-wing groups, but are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in kenosha and portland? pres. trump: i am willing to do that. vice pres. biden: do it. pres. trump: i would say almost everything i see is from the left-wing, not the right-wing. chris: what are you saying? vice pres. biden: do it. say it. pres. trump: what do you want to call them? give me a name. chris: white supremacists. pres. trump: proud boys, stand back and stand by, but i'll tell you what. somebody has to do something about antifa and the left. this is not a right-wing problem. vice pres. biden: his own fbi director said white supremacists -- antifa is an idea, not an
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organization. that is his fbi director. chris: gentlemen, we are done. [crosstalk] vice pres. biden: everybody in your administration who tells you the truth is a bad idea. you have no idea. pres. trump: antifa is a dangerous, radical group. they will overthrow you. chris: i'm going to ask a question. when a president seeks a second term, it is generally a referendum on his record, but vice president biden, you like to quote one of your dad's sayings which is, don't compare me to the almighty. compare me to the alternative. in this case, you are the alternative. looking at both of your records, i am going to ask each of you, why should voters elect to you president over your opponent? president trump, you go first. pres. trump: because there has
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never been an administration or president who has done more than i've done in a period of 3.5 years, and that is despite the impeachment hoax. you saw what happened today with hillary clinton where it was a big con job, but despite going through all of these things, where i had to fight both flanks behind me and above, there has never been an administration that has done what i've done. before covid came in, greatest economy in history, lowest unemployment numbers, everything was good. there was unity going to happen. people were calling me and saying, it's time maybe, but then we got hit. upare building it back again.
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a rebuilding of the military, including space force and all of the other things. a fixing of the v.a., which was a mess under him. 300-8000 people died because they didn't have proper health care. we've now got a 91% approval rating at the v.a. we take care of our vets, but we have built -- rebuilt our military. by the end of the first term, i will have approximately 300 federal judges and court of appeals judges. hopefully, three great supreme court judges. that is a record the likes of which very few people -- you know one of the reasons why i will have so many judges? because president obama and him left me 128 judges to fill. when you leave office, you don't leave any judges. that.st don't do they left 128 openings, and if i were a member of his party, because they have a different philosophy, i would say if you left us 128 openings, you can't be a good president. you can't be a good vice president, but i want to thank you. it will probably be above that number.
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by the end of this term, 300 judges, it's a record. chris: looking at both of your records, why should voters elect you president as opposed to president trump? vice pres. biden: under this president, we have become weaker, sicker, poorer, more divided, and more violent. when i was vice president, we inherited a recession. i was asked to fix it. i did. we left him a booming economy, and he caused a recession. with regard to being weaker, that fact is that i've gone head-to-head with putin and made it clear to him we aren't going to take any of his stuff. he is putin's puppy. he refuses to say anything about the bounty on the heads of american soldiers. chris: mr. president, your campaign agreed that both sides minute answers uninterrupted.
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your side agreed to it. why don't you observe what your campaign agreed to? vice pres. biden: he never keeps his word. chris: i'm not asking. that was a rhetorical question. vice pres. biden: can i have back 30 seconds? chris: yes. vice pres. biden: thirdly, we are poorer. the billionaires have gotten much more wealthy by a tune of over $300 billion to $400 billion more since covid. you are in more trouble than you were before. in terms of being more violent, when we were in office, there was 15% less violence in america than there is today. he is president of the united states. it is on his watch. with regard to more divided, the nation can't stay divided. speaking of my son, the way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being losers and being suckers, my son was in iraq. he spent a year there. he got the bronze star. he was not a loser.
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he was a patriot, and the people left behind were heroes. i resent -- i'm talking of my son beau biden. pres. trump: i know hunter. i don't know beau. hunter got thrown out of the military. he was dishonorably discharged, cocaine use. he didn't have a job until you became vice president. vice pres. biden: none of that is true. pres. trump: he made a fortune in ukraine, in china, in moscow and various other places. vice pres. biden: that is not true. my son, like a lot of people, like a lot of people i know at home, had a drug problem. he has overtaken it. he has fixed it. i am proud of him. pres. trump: why was he given tens of millions of dollars? vice pres. biden: he wasn't given tens of millions of dollars. that has been totally discredited. chris: we have already been through this. i think people would rather hear about more substantive subjects.
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as the moderator, i'm going to make a judgment call here. pres. trump: $3.5 million in moscow -- vice pres. biden: that is not true. the report is discredited. mitt romney said it was written for political reasons. chris: i would like to talk about climate change. vice pres. biden: so would i. chris: ok, the forest fires in the west are raging now. they have burned millions of acres. they have displaced hundreds of thousands of people. when state officials there blamed the fires on climate change, mr. president, you said, i don't think the science knows. over your four years, you have pulled the u.s. out of the paris climate accord. you have rolled back a number of obama environmental records. what do you believe about the science of climate change, and what will you do in the next four years to confront it? pres. trump: i want crystal clean water and air. i want beautiful clean air. we have the lowest carbon. if you look at our numbers now,
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we are doing phenomenally. but i haven't destroyed our businesses. our businesses aren't put out of commission. if you look at the paris accord, it was a disaster from our standpoint, and people are actually happy about what is going on because our businesses are doing well. as far as the fires are concerned, you need forest management. the forest floors are loaded up with trees, and they are like tinder. leaves and everything else, you drop a cigarette in there, the whole forest goes down. chris: what do you believe of the science of climate change? pres. trump: i believe we need to do everything we can to have immaculate air and water. we are planting one billion trees, the billion tree project.
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chris: do you believe that human pollution and greenhouse gas emissions contribute to the global warming of the climate? pres. trump: to an extent, yes, but i also think we have to do better management of our forests. every year, i get the call, california is burning. california is burning. if that was cleaned, if you had forest management, good forest management, you wouldn't be getting those calls. in europe, they live in forest cities. they manage their forests. i was with the head of a major country. it is a forest city. he said, sir, we have trees that are far more -- they ignite easier than california. there shouldn't be that problem. i spoke with the governor about that. well withg along very the governor. i said, at some point, you can't every year have hundreds of thousands of acres of land just burnt to the ground. that is burning down because of a lack of --
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chris: if you believe in the science of climate change, why have you rolled back the clean power plan, which limited carbon emissions in power plants? pres. trump: because it was driving energy prices through the sky. chris: why have you relaxed fuel economy standards that are going to create more pollution? pres. trump: not really. what is happening is the car is much less expensive and a much safer car, and you are talking about a tiny difference. and then, what would happen, because of the cost of the car, you would have at least double and triple the number of cars purchased. we have the old slugs out there that are 10, 12 years old. if you did that, the car would be safer. chris: in california, they have simply ignored it. pres. trump: they are taking cars off the market. by the way, we are going to see how that turns out, but a lot of people agree with me. the car has gotten so expensive because they have computers all over the place for an extra bit of gasoline. i am ok with electric cars, too.
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i'm all for electric cars. i've given big incentives for electric cars, but what they have done in california is just crazy. chris: vice president biden, i would like you to respond to the presidents climate change record, but i also want to ask you about $2 trillion in green jobs. you talk about new limits on fracking, ending the use of fossil fuels to generate electricity by 2035, and zero net greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. the president says a lot of these things would tank the economy and cost millions of jobs. vice pres. biden: he's absolutely wrong, number one. number two, when i was in the obama-biden administration, i was able to bring down the cost of renewable energy to the price of coal, gas, and oil. nobody is going to build another coal-fired plant in america. no one is going to build another oil-fired plant in america. they are going to move to renewable energy.
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number two, we want to make sure we take the federal fleet and turn it into a fleet run on electric vehicles. to make sure we can do that, we are going to put 500,000 charging stations on all the highways we are going to be building. we are going to build an economy that in fact is going to provide for the ability of us to take 4 million buildings and make sure that they are weatherized in a way that they will emit significantly less gas and oil because the heat won't be going out. there are so many things we can do now to create thousands of jobs. we can get to net zero in terms of energy production by 2035, not only not costing people jobs, but creating jobs, creating millions of good paying jobs, not $15 per hour, but prevailing wage by having a new infrastructure that is green. the first thing i will do, i will rejoin the paris accord. i will join the paris accord because with us out of it, look
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what is happening. it is all falling apart. talk about somebody who has no relationship with foreign policy. brazil, the rain forests of brazil are being ripped down. more carbon is absorbed in that rain forest than every bit of carbon that's emitted in the united states. instead of doing something about that, i would be gathering up and making sure we had the countries of the world coming up with $20 billion to say, here's $20 billion. stop tearing down the forest, and if you don't, you are going to have significant economic consequences. chris: what about the argument that president trump basically says that you have to balance environmental interests and economic interests? he has drawn his line. vice pres. biden: he hasn't drawn a line. he wants to make sure methane is not a problem. you can now emit more methane without a problem. methane!
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this is a guy who says that you don't have to have mileage standards for automobiles that exist now. this is a guy who says -- the fact is it's all true. pres. trump: i'm talking about the green new deal. it is $100 trillion. they want to rip down buildings and rebuild the buildings. airplanes are out of business. two-car systems are out. they want to take out the cows. vice pres. biden: not true. pres. trump: that's more money than our country could make in 100 years. chris: wait a minute. i actually have studied your plan, and it includes upgrading 4 million buildings, weatherizing 2 million homes over four years, building 1.5 million energy efficient homes. the question becomes, the
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president is saying, some people who support the president would say -- it sounds like it is going to cost a lot of money and hurt the economy. vice pres. biden: it's going to create thousands and millions of jobs. good paying jobs. chris: let him finish, sir. pres. trump: he doesn't know how -- vice pres. biden: he doesn't know how to do that. the fact is there are tax incentives for people to weatherize. look how much we are paying now to deal with the hurricanes. he has an answer for hurricanes. he said maybe we should drop a nuclear weapon on them. pres. trump: i never said that. vice pres. biden: here's the deal. we are going to be in a position where we can create hard, good jobs by making sure the environment is clean and we are all in better shape. we spend billions of dollars now on floods, hurricanes, rising seas. we are in real trouble. look what has happened in the midwest. these storms have come through and wiped out entire sections
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and counties in iowa. they didn't happen before. they are because of global warming. we make up 15% of the world's problem. the rest of the world, we've got to get them to come along. that's why we've got to get back into the paris accord. pres. trump: why didn't he do it for 47 years? you were vice president. why didn't you get the world? china sends real dirt. russia does. india does. they all do. he made a couple of statements. the green new deal is $100 trillion. vice pres. biden: that is not my plan. my green new deal is not plan. pres. trump: he said i said something about the military. he and his friends made it up, and then they went with it. i never said it. he called the military stupid. he said stupid bastards. chris: i said stop.
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never sayp: i would that. chris: mr. vice president, answer his final question. vice pres. biden: the final question is, i can't remember which one of his rants. chris:chris: i'm having trouble myself. about the economy and the question of what it is going to cost. the green new deal. vice pres. biden: the green new deal will pay for itself as we move forward. we aren't going to build plants that in fact are polluting plants. chris: do you support the green new deal? vice pres. biden: i don't support the green new deal. pres. trump: that's a big statement. you just dropped the radical left. vice pres. biden: i support the biden plan that i put forward, which is different from what he calls the radical green new deal. chris: final segment. election integrity. as we meet tonight, millions of
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americans are receiving mail-in ballots or going to vote early. how confident should we be that this will be a fair election, and what are you prepared to do over the next five-plus weeks, because it will not only be election day but counting some mail-in ballots after election day -- what are you prepared to do to reassure the american people that the next president will be the legitimate winner of this election? vice pres. biden: prepared to let people vote. go to iwillvote.com. decide how they are going to vote and by which means they are going to vote. his own homeland security director and fbi director said there is no evidence that mail-in ballots are a source of being manipulated and cheating. they said that. the fact is that there are going to be millions of people because of covid who are going to be voting by mail-in ballots, like he does, by the way. he sits behind the resolute desk and sends his ballot to florida.
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number two, we are going to make sure that those people who want to vote in person can do that with poll workers there to make sure they are socially distanced. this is all about trying to dissuade people from voting because he is trying to scare people into thinking it is not going to be legitimate. show up and vote. you will determine the outcome of this election. vote, vote, vote. if you are able to vote early, vote early. if you are able to vote in person, vote in person. vote whatever way is best for you. he cannot stop you from being able to determine the outcome of this election, and in terms of whether or not when the votes are counted, that will be accepted. if i win, that will be accepted. if i lose, that will be accepted. but by the way, if he says he's not sure of what he's going to accept, it doesn't matter. if we get the votes, he's going to go. he can't stay in power.
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it won't happen. vote. it won't happen. just make sure you understand you have it in your control to determine what this country is going to look like the next four years. is it going to change? or are you going to get four more years of these lies? chris: mr. president, two minutes. trump: there has been no transition from when i won. if you look at crooked hillary clinton, all the different people, there was no transition. they came after me trying to do a coup, spied on my camping. they started from the day i won and before i won. they were a disaster, disgrace to our country and we have caught them all. we've got them all on tape. you gave the idea for the logan act against general flynn. you better take a look at that,
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because we caught you, and a sense. president obama was sitting in the office and he knew about it, too. as far as the ballots are concerned, it is a disaster. a solicited ballot is ok. you are soliciting, you are asking. unsolicited, they are sending millions of ballots across the country. there is fraud. they found some in creeks. they found some with the name trump in a wastepaper basket. they sent two and a democrat area. they sent out 1000 ballots, everybody got two. this will be a fraud like you've never seen. on november 3, you are watching and you see who won the election and i think we are going to do well. you know what? we might not know for months, because these ballots are going to be all over. take a look at what happened in manhattan, new jersey, virginia
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and other places. they are not losing 2%, 1%, much, by the way, is too they are losing 30% and 40%. it is a fraud and it is a shame. can you imagine when they say, you have to have your ballot invite november 10. november 10. that is seven days after the election. in theory, it should have been announced. we have major states are run by democrats, all run by democrats. it is a rigged election. chris: you are going to be able to continue. you have been charging for months that mail-in ballot will be a disaster. you said it's a rigged, will lead to fraud. in the last midterm election, 31 million people voted mail-in voting. that was more than a quarter of all the voters that year that cast their ballots by mail. now that millions of mail-in ballots have gone out, what are you going to do about it?
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and are you counting on the supreme court, including justice barrett, to settle any dispute. pres. for the ballots, i think so because what is happening is incredible. i read today where at least 1% of the ballots from 2016 were invalidated. they take them, we don't like them, we don't like him. you do a solicited ballot -- >> i'm asking you about the fact that millions of people -- >> you go and vote. do, chris, a solicited ballot where they are sending get in, you are sending it back -- they have mailman -- look at west virginia, mailman selling the ballots. they are being sold, they are being dumped in rivers.
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mr. biden: there is no evidence of that. states --d domestic mr. biden: five states have had a mail-in ballots and you don't have to solicit the ballot, it is sent to you. it is sent to your home. they are saying there has to be a postmark by election day. if it does not get in until the seventh, eighth, ninth, it should still be counted. he's just afraid of counting the votes. pres. trump: you are wrong. you are wrong. chris: i want to continue with you on this, vice president biden. chris: excuse me. vice president biden, the biggest problem, over the years with mail-in voting has not been fraud or con historically. it has been that sizable numbers, sometimes hundreds of thousands of ballots are thrown out because they have not been properly filled out, or some other irregularity. the question i have is, are you
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concerned that the supreme court with a just disparate would -- justice barratt would settle any dispute? mr. biden: i'm concerned any supreme court would, because when you get a ballot and fill it out, you are supposed to have an affidavit. if you didn't know, somebody said this is me, you should be able to -- if in fact you can verify before the ballot is thrown out, that is sufficient to count the ballot because somebody made a mistake and not dotting the correct i. who they voted for, testify, say who they voted for, say it's you, that is totally legitimate. chris: all right -- gentlemen, i have a final question. pres. trump: you do know it cannot be done. you know it can't and already -- chris: gentlemen. pres. trump: 80 million ballots. chris: in eight states, election workers are prohibited, currently by law, eight states,
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from even beginning to process ballots, even take them out of the envelopes and flatten them until election day. that means that it's likely, because there will be a huge increase in mail-in balloting, that we are not going to know on election night who the winner is. it could be days, it could be weeks -- mr. trump: it could be months. chris: until we find out who the new president is. for the vice president, i hope neither of you will interrupt the other, will you urge her -- your supporters to stay calm during this extended period, not to engage in any civil unrest? and will you pledge tonight that you will not declare victory until the election has been independently certified? president trump, you go first. pres. trump: i am urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very carefully, because that is what has to happen. i am urging them to do it. as you know, today, there was a problem. in philadelphia, they went in to
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watch. they are poll watchers. they were thrown out. there were not allowed to watch. do you know why? because bad things happen in philadelphia. bad things. i am urging my people -- i hope it is going to be a fair election. chris: urging what? mr. trump: i am 100% on board, if i see tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated, i cannot go along with that. it means you have a fraudulent election. 80 million ballots. they are not equipped -- these people are not equipped to handle it. number one. number two, they cheat. they cheat. they found ballots in a waste paper basket three days ago, and they all had the -- military ballots, they all had the name trump on them. do you think that's good? chris: vice president biden, final question for you. will you urge your supporters to stay call mall the vote is counted, and will you pledge not to declare victory until the election is independently certified? vice pres. biden: yes.
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and here is the deal. we will count the ballots. some of these ballots in some states cannot even be opened until election day. and if there are thousands of ballots, it is going to take time to do it. by the way, our military has been voting by ballots since the end of the civil war. that is what's going to happen. why is it, for them, somehow not fraudulent? it's the same process. it's honest. no one has established at all that there is fraud related to mail-in ballots. that somehow it's a fraudulent process. pres. trump: it's already been established. chris: you have an opportunity to respond. go ahead. vice president biden, go ahead. vice pres. biden: he has no idea what he's talking about. the fact is, i will except it and he will too. do you know why? because once the winner is declared after all the ballots are counted, all the votes are counted, that will be the end of it. that will be the end of it.
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and if it is me, that's fine, and if it's not me i will support the outcome. i will be a president not just for the democrats. i will be a president for democrats and republicans. chris: gentlemen, that's the end of it. this is the end of this debate. we are going to leave it there. to be continued in more debates as we go on. president trump, vice president biden, it has been an interesting hour and a half. i want to thank you both for participating in the first of three debates you agreed to debate in. we want to thank case western reserve for hosting this debate. the next debate sponsored by the commission on presidential debates will be one week from tomorrow, october 7 at the university of utah in salt lake city. the two vice presidential nominees, vice president mike pence and senator, kamala harris will debate at 9:00 p.m. eastern that night. we hope you watch. until then, thank you and good night. [applause]
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[applause] getnd now it is time to yourea

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