tv Making Money With Charles Payne FOX Business February 19, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm EST
meanwhile a number of top democrats says it has everything to do with you. now a number of fellow democrats who are saying enough is enough. the governor ain't done. here comes charles payne right now. hey, charles. charles: neil, back in the day, we used to call that hemming and hawing. [laughter] we'll see if he gets away with it. neil: you're right. here we go, thank you, my friend charles: good afternoon, everyone i'm charles payne and this is "making money." breaking right now the market is making a pretty good comeback folks but we've got a changing of the guard not the kind of rotation that we've talked about before. in fact it's good old fashion cyclicals led by the pharma economy. i've talked about it the number one performing stock is deere. there's still a lot of time for you to make money and perhaps there is indeed a commodities super cycle and
meanwhile the aftermath of the gamestop hearings yesterday, the mainstream media still professing a fair amount of sympathy towards the key players there but we've got to guess whose not so sympathetic. dave portnoy one of the leaders of the retail revolution who started all of this excitement is with us and i can't wait to get his opinion on what exactly went down. and president biden set to visit a pfizer vaccine manufacturing plant in michigan this hour. how about the notion the federal government saying july, but how about the notion we could see h erd immunity by april. that changes everything. we've got the professor who says that is indeed possible, all that and so much more on "making money. " all right, folks we've got a sort of an interesting situation here, the markets sort of gone back and forth but again , as usual, there's some amazing things that's
happening would got a major change in leadership underway. i love the farm economy i've been talking about it for a couple months actually maybe three or four months it's happening, deere, the stock of the day and i love the way it's acting but before we even get to that, big news made late yesterday by our next guest who says we could actually see herg immunity by april, dr. marty mccarey, fox news medical contributor looking at the data, and for whatever reason, it seems great to everyone else, but has been down played by the medical community and the media. dr. mccarey, walk us through why you've not only come to this conclusion, but have been able to say this when most of your industry has been very guarded about any sort of optimism. >> well good afternoon, charles good to see you. you know, when you use the vaccinated immunity as the only metric then of course you just calculate out how long is it going to take to
get 75-80% of the public vaccinated and that puts you late summer or close to christmas an those are the projections we've heard, but that discounts natural immunity and it turns out if you look at the research, especially the research coming out of europe, that natural immunity is far more prevalent than we probably recognize and we're already seeing herd immunity kick in. the term can be loaded but we're seeing slowing. there's fewer and fewer people susceptibile and when you have that many breaks in the transmission of the virus you're going to have fewer people who can get infected. that's why we've seen a 76% drop in daily new cases over the last six weeks. charles: so if we do get herd immunity does that mean we can reopen society? >> well look, some of society should be reopened right now. if you look at schools, the top leaders and the scientists at the cdc wrote a paper in the top medical journal saying that schools don't really contribute to transmission, and they should
be open, and then you saw the cdc put out guidelines soon after that really went back on what those cdc scientists already published. you look at societies like florida and parts of texas where you have lots of open activity. you've got masking and you look at parts of the country where things have been shutdown and guess what? you see an effective barrier against transmission in places that are open when they take proper precautions. look at airplanes. people wearing masks, good air flow, you don't see transmission on airplanes. charles: so again, you know, these two things back to back you're saying herd immunity by april, why the cdc guidelines for covid reopening schools, overly burdensome, obviously, you know, they've gone back and forth with respect to science. it feels like at some point, maybe the whole time it was politically motivated but certainly at some point it became clear that science wasn't
driving any of this. are you worried about being too optimistic? we hear about these strains that are starting to make their way. we get a few breakdowns here and there, for instance i know some of this winter weather stalled those distribution of vaccines. should we caution against being too optimistic? i love the idea of april getting herd immunity. >> well look, i think herd immunity has already started to kick in and as we add vaccinated immunity we're going to see very low levels of infection in april, probably late april. now, look i don't expect everybody to come rushing out into an open society then. i think people are going to be timid and spooked maybe for good reason. we've been burned and had a lot of loss of life, so it may take time but i think what you're going to observe around then is a very low background level of infection, something should be open right now, and if we get smart about our vaccine roll out instead of what we're doing right now we might see high rates of vaccination as
high as 45% by april. charles: what should we be doing right now that we're not doing? >> look, i think, charles we need contingency planning. for most of the pandemic, it has been oh, my god, let's scramble, and that's been the story, from the beginning when many of us were warning about the pandemic to trying to understand whether or not to stay open or closed, to taking precautions. its been sort of this oh, my gosh look what we just learned and then we scrambled. this is a time for good contingency planning by businesses, to get ready for a low level of infection in april. charles: dr. makary, it's great to have you on the fox team. you have been independent of thought and you have been right a lot more than you've been wrong. we appreciate it, thank you. >> thanks charles. charles: let's talk about this , from the business angle folks. herd immunity by april, certainly the question is what does it mean for the stock market? what does it mean for the economy? i've got two of my very favorites here to help us hash it all out.
david schweikert with us and also rob luna. let me start with you, rob. just obviously, every model on wall street is making an assumption on when we'll get herd immunity/reopened economy, and i don't think anyone is making that assumption for april. how much of a game changer would that be? >> oh, i think it be a huge game changer. interest rates and covid are the two biggest challenges the market is facing right now. i think most people are thinking q 4 charles, that's the traditional metrics. if you're to get april back up and running and the state like mine in california where we're still completely shutdown, back opened up the largest economy in the u.s. , that's a huge, huge, huge tailwind for the economy. charles: david? >> yeah, so, you know, i couldn't agree more and i think there's good reasons for consensus to bring up that herd immunity because we just got such great news. in fact, you have huge protection with just one shot from pfizer. you don't necessarily need two, and furthermore, of course, is the fact that it doesn't have to
be kept at low temperatures. what frustrates me is overseas they are already distributing the j & j vaccine. why is is that approved for emergency use right here right now and of course the other thing is we can all look forward tok on a snowy day like we have in the northeast is warmer weather and we know the flu and vaccines have less traction as that weather gets warmer and we get outside. charles: all right, let's switch gears to my stock of the day which is deere. i've been hitting this deere thing for quite sometime. reported earnings amazing, folks if you ever want to know when a stock is a buy look at operating margins, across every segment they blew them away, guidance blew them away and here is the thing. i think this is just getting started. i love it. i think its got a long way to go and also i want to ask you about this david. in the notion that we could be on the cusp of a commodities super cycle that includes agriculture, that includes metal s and that would also include other things like for instance industrial met ass as
well. what the are your thought there's? >> well i think you're dead on the money there, charles, because we have seen commodities es do nothing foreclose to a decade, but we know from looking at economic history that these are very very long cycles, and i think we've got all the ingredients in place we've got the potential for far more spending, money printing, deficit spending and it's possibly goods and services that's going to drive prices up and of course the productive capacity for everything from farmland to mines to other types of goods, they've all been shut in for a decade because the low prices and of course that is going to take much higher prices to bring that supply back up so i agree with that. absolutely. charles: rob? rob smart investors are saying super cycle also led with oil. i meant to throw oil as well. are you buying into this? >> definitely charles. it's really the whole narrative of why a lot of assets are going up. look at bitcoin. it's the same exact narrative. the money that's in circulation
today, 12.5% of that has come on line, just in the last 12 months this is an issue, people are starting to worry about currenc ies. at the end of the day, charles in terms of utility on inflation hedges where would you rather have your money be in a bar of gold, farmland, cattle those types of things that actually have real utility. i agree with you, you've been dead on with names like deere. i think we're just getting started and more money is flowing to these names. charles: dave and rob thank you both very much always a pleasure folks, at 2:35 eastern time i'm talking with barstool sports founder and retail investor david portnoy. of course he's demanding to know why when everyday investors, whenever they do well, it's fine , but whenever the hedge funds get beat, the rules are changed and bitcoin continues to be a major story just crossing that $1 trillion evaluation. every day gaining new believers but i've got someone whose been a believer for a long time and he says it's just getting
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around i would say 2014 i was introduced to it, but i really got into it around 2015-2016, and i've been a die hard ever since and i understand it, i've learned it, i created a media company that educates people on the cryptocurrency and blockchain technology so i'm excited, we're at 55, 200 bitcoin is just going to keep climbing. charles: you know, i've got a friend of mine, a very wealthy guy, and he jokes that the billion is the hardest, rosenstein it? after that everything is easy. can we say that can bitcoin, the first trillion dollars in valuation is easy and just a run way from here? >> i think so. look at the institutions and the corporations just jumping in you know, we have michael siller jumping in, elon musk jumped in, god knows who else is jumping in. i'm pretty sure apple will come into the picture, you'll have google that comes into the
picture. i'm excited. the first trillion is out of the way. i'm waiting for 5 trillion now. charles: so david, you mentioned some of these high profile names we also saw of course bank of new york mellon, mastercard, other firms saying things, but there are obviously a whole lot of folks out there a lot of large institutions that are resisting, and in fact i heard someone today say that it's not an asset. what are they missing about all of this? >> you know, for me, personally , if they don't get it the first, it's kind of like warren buffett. he doesn't believe in it, you have bill gates that came out with statement saying stating that he doesn't believe in bitcoin, or cryptocurrency and that we should do away with it. that was a quote from i think market watch. you know, for me personally i'm trying to convince the regular average joe to go ahead and look into bitcoin. i'm not so much worried about the institutions and the corporations that don't want to come in because at the end of
the day, they are going to have to come in. they are going to have to follow tesla's lead and lick i said michael siller, elon musk coming in, how can you not come in now. how can google not come in and how can you go and actually sit on the sidelines and watch all these people come in and you'll sit out because you do not want to adapt. those who don't adapt will be left behind. it's plain and simple. charles: yeah, but you call it a transfer of wealth. that means the wealth is going to go from the super elite and governments to the regular folks you know there's going to be a fight over that. there's going to be a war over that. i mean you've got to see something coming where they try to derail this whole thing, don't you? >> oh, like they did with like robinhood did to the retail investor? where, you know, the retail investor -- charles: just like that. just like that. >> yeah, like the royal flush we had in their hands. we're playing and all of a sudden they turn off the lights on us while we're playing
basketball with women they turn off the lights on the courts. that's not fair, but it is what it is. people have come together now. people will have woke up during this pandemic, they're looking, they're watching, and they're getting in. for the first time, i see a lot of people just jumping in and investing and the average joe is investing, and that is the coolest thing to see , and we really need to go ahead and get out there and let people know about bitcoin and other digital assets. charles: david, you know, by the way i did check out your podcast, your last one from december. anyone who starts to show off with a tribe called quest is someone that's okay in my book. we're going to bring you back again real soon i appreciate you thank you so much. hey, folks, well at 2:35 eastern time we've got david portnoy sharing his takeaway from the whole game stop robinhood thing and what needs to happen in his mind right now to the key players in all of this , and in the meantime ceo
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that is the $1,400 in checks for those who are earning less than $75,000 a year, and this payout , you know, has come under a variety of criticism though, from some saying hey, the government just can't afford it, to others saying many of these recipients really don't need it, but the most observation is that the idea of 600 or $1,400 can change someone's life and they have much bigger issues, here now one of the heros of the pandemic, the ceo of starfish restaurant group, chef andrew gruel. chef i want to let the audience know you and your wife have established help struggling restaurant workers it's on gofundme. i would encourage anyone to go there i think you raised almost 350,000, your goal is $1 million and its been an admirable effort. i do want to ask you though because i was trying to get into bitcoin between dave ramsey about something dave ramsey said last week on twitter you jumped in and said you have things to say about
this as well so your thoughts on the notion that if 1,400 bucks can change your life and you don't really have a life anyway, we should be looking at something else with respect to helping people. >> well firstly, $1,400 is a ton of money, regardless of whether you're a millionaire or hundredaire, right? $1,400 is a lot of money but it's about getting money just into the economy regardless of where it comes from and who it goes to. those people are then going to really kind of pump it back into the economy. if it goes into subsidiary government agencies or it goes overseas then it does absolutely nothing for our economy, and for the small businesses. charles: to your point, i would run in front of a steamroller for a $10 bill so the work you've done with niece restaurants, 2.3 million restaurant workers in last month , fewer restaurant workers in january than a year earlier. i mean, it has been absolutely heartbreaking, and at this point we know a lot of these folks will never get a job back in the independent in part because
their jobs are gone. you've been a vocal critic of local governments particularly in california. how indebted are they? just how badly did they botch this and just destroy this industry? >> well it's almost as if they decided they were going to go against the restaurant industry. we've become the villains and they want to be able to fight against us but keep in mind, these local agencies, if they had acted as consultants and worked alongside us in order to help us out, and not have been deputized effectively by some of the governors in order to come after us, then i think we all could have collectively gotten through this a lot quicker and we could have saved a small piece of local economies. charles: yeah, i mean, do you think they did it because they were just small businesses like without a united strong voice, without lobbyists? >> well, i mean yeah. there's certainly a little bit of point stacking going on right now and it's somewhat of a game so it's like let's go after these small guys it's the low lying fruit and they seem to not be doing x,y, andz because of
something we saw in some facebook group but really all it is neighbors pointing fingers trying to get each other worked up. there's so much negativity if we could all coming together and be a bit more positive maybe we'd get through this quicker. charles: you're leading the way by example, thank you we appreciate what you've donald the voice that you provided thanks a lot. >> thank you. charles: for more on this bifurcated economy, and the millions that are being left behind i'm wondering really about their future i want to bring a wall street op-ed writer and jillian, your thoughts on this notion of $600 or $1,400 really makes a difference in your life then some way you just don't have a life to begin with. >> well, i'm a little bit skeptical about it. it is a lot of money. it is something that i think the bigger issue here is the government really prevented people who want to work from going to work. in new york and pennsylvania and california, this is going on and
on and on and it's much better instead of just giving a handout to people to allow them to work and providing for their families, and i think it's outrageous that we've even gotten to this point, and the political uncertainty in addition to the covid uncertainty and skeptical they are going to spend this money. we've already seen savings rates going up considerably because they don't know what to expect on any given day, governor cuomo could issue a unilateral whose going to destroy your business, your entire employment field, and that's just devastating. charles: yeah, there's a new, well it's actually an old movement but its come back to life and this notion that the government, the federal government should guarantee a job, its reassure wake ening in part because now there's enough progressives in washington d.c. that many think they can make this a reality. for someone from the wall street journal, what be so wrong about hey, if you can't find a job, the government will find one for
you. create one for you. >> well, i think before the pandemic what we thought of was a tight labor market and already businesses were having a hard time finding enough workers it was putting pressure on wages too and bringing more marginalized workers back into the economy and we have a weird situation right now and we have to go back to the fact that the problem per se is shortage of jobs is that government is coming in with these sweeping ed icts and telling businesses you want to hire workers, you can't do that and you can't even run your business right now, and i just think that they are so sweeping that this is a problem the government can help with by stepping back. charles: right. jillian, you're coming in mixed up but i heard you talk about the government being too big and too sweeping and i agree with that. thank you so much folks. we'll be right back with david portnoy. [announcer] durán catches leonard with a big left.
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transitions™ light under control. ♪upbeat music♪ transitions™ signature gen 8™ available now, in 4 vibrant style colors. transitions™ charles: the game stop robinhood took washington by a storm while there were memorable moments in many ways fell flat of living up to the hype or resolving the biggest issues and today the overarching message from the financial media is that the individual investor has never had it so good. they sort of have been used
throughout the history of man kind to keep behavior in place while waging the soul of the elites not only condescending but it actually avoids the fact that retail investors got the shortened of the stick. let's talk about some of the main issues, right? robinhood and others prohibited buying gamestop, other stocks on january 28, now apparently, the ceo of robinhood and its entire team were caught flat- footed on the need to sure up their books so they had no choice. say what? i mean, how could they not see the need to raise capital when the volumes were exploding? on january 4, 10 million shares of the stock traded. it closed at 17 so let's call that $170 million worth of trading. january 13 the volume soared to 144 million shares, the stock closed at 31. that's 2,500% more money, more volume, than january 4. volume and share price only continued to march higher and higher. there's absolutely no way that any broker did not have to check
to see if they could handle all of that action. i'm not sure why robinhood management waited, but i think maybe it has something to do with the fact they didn't want to lose their own holdings ahead of the potentially hot ipo, but they had to be enjoying also all of the action. think about all of the new accounts they were getting, and of course they were making a min t on order flow selling it to king griffi nfl and others and speaking to which it has to be noted that pay for order flow is prohibited in canada, strictly restricted in the uk and in fact there's a great piece on this and it comes from a blue chip canadian firm scotia bank and it's called free-trading. if you didn't pay for the execution, you are the product. i think the hearing will not result in any sort of tangible action. there was one person, i wish though, congress had called but we have them now, barstool sports founder and president david portnoy. david, your overall thoughts on what we saw yesterday at the
hearing. >> well i agree with you. i mean, it was interesting to see some of these guys put on the spot. you know, a lot of grandstanding probably by a lot of politicians i don't know that we got any answers and i don't know that it changed the overall perspective of what went on, but like what you just said is right. i always, from the beginning, i think vlad is a crook and should be in jail and i just refuse, no matter how much they say, that the melvins and the citadels weren't involved or swayed the decision that robinhood made , and you know, vlod said so many contradicting statements on why they acted as they did, and he looks like he's wearing a big on trial. he just looks like a villain. he speaks like a villain, smells like a villain, looks like a villain, he is a villain. charles: he was coached up pretty good and they coached him how to waste at least half the time allotted that you just sort of say thank you, i
appreciate the question, kind of stuff, but you know, here is the thing. the media, today, i'm toggling around watching all of the channels and the usual suspects. a lot of sympathy for ken griffin and here is a thing i heard over and over again that pissed me off. the individual investors never had it so good. if you are trying, if you own a stock and you buy it at 200 bucks and it's going through the roof, and all of a sudden wall street stops you from buying it and they say all you can do is sell it, how is that feeling so good? how is that helping the individual investor? >> yeah, it doesn't, and you and i are on the same page with this. there's nobody on god's green earth who can convince me that if the shoe is on the other foot , never in the history of the stock market, with the hedge funds and griffins are making billions do they press the pause button, never ever. never. they figure out this time, the one-time where the retail trader had the advantage, that's when they press the pause, so it
just wouldn't have happened the other way and i've said it a million times. for some reason, when the hedge funds are making billions and there's articles that hedge funds making billions on pandemic volatility. nobody had a problem with it. nobody, it just went, but when it was the little guy making it that's when suddenly all these issues and by the way i remember vlod saying he got a call at 3:00 a.m. saying from his team they didn't have the liquidity and then he says, he went off on that liquidity issue every time you asked him, depends what time of the day you get him at. charles: he's on record from flip flopping on that more than once to your point. what do you think then from here because pay for order flow, they seem to be trying to circle the wagons around that. it's illegal in other countries to do it and they are saying it's a good thing. obviously these large hedge funds they get to see orders and make money between orders and they are not doing this favor for the investment community, so
is that one of the things you want to see? there was nothing about synthetic puts, and shorting and any of those kind of real issues that hurt the individual investor. >> yeah, those are things, but stock market is run by the wealthy, and the billionaire s and they make the rules and they play by the rules and we've seen it time and time again that, you know, they basically have a fail-safe that the retail investor doesn't have. you hear stories you hear horror stories of people getting involved in robinhood or others and they are doing options and they get killed and lose their money and nobody comes to the rescue and nobody says hold on we'll bail you out, we'll do this and that for you, it never happens. it only happened the reverse way and that is the frustration. now, i do think there has to be legislation that can change in this internet age for the runup on these stocks. something has to be done. robinhood, the simple thing i think what they should have done is they should have froze all
buying and selling and they should have if you wanted to liquidate at the price, you can liquidate, but you got to do something that allows it to be fair on both sides and you don't have this overwhelming feeling as a retail investor that at any time now, the rules can change if you're doing too good. charles: yeah, i think it was maxine waters who asked if people can get their money back. i think they was serious although most would think it's a rhetorical question, but to your point and it doesn't have to be the sort of heavily-shorted stocks. we saw the crash in 2008-2009 that was engineered because wall street made some incredibly dangerous bets. guess who got paid off, guess who got bailed out and who didn't. i remember the tech bubble it was wall street putting these companies public, they write a business plan on a napkin on tuesday, it will go public on friday, and when it exploded guess who gets the backing of the federal reserve and everyone else so to your point, wall street always gets the trillions of dollars in aid, the individual investor doesn't. now, here is what i'm worried
about, dave. a couple weeks ago you were on with stuart and it sounded like you were throwing in the towel. yesterday's action was really amazing because you could see where the retail investor was deflated across-the-board because retail investors have done extraordinarily well and it hasn't just been game stop but yesterday, all their favorite things whether it was game stop, bitcoin names like riot got slammed, renewables like plug got slammed and i think that it's a mistake for the retail investor to be deflated even though the odds are stacked against people, i don't want to see you or anybody else give up on this. what are your thoughts? >> well i don't think they will give up, because still, it's funny. not to go full circle here, but since i've been doing the day trading market the stock market is way up, and anybody whose gotten involved should be substantially ahead, but what struck me yesterday, also, was p lotkin at one point said it's unprecedented times they
didn't see this coming from the internet where they had the stock and there be a revolt. when he said that, well shame on you that's your job as the head of a hedge fund because the internet didn't sneak up on anybody and roaring kitty has a video well before this happened. when i started the day trading stuff, he has the logo dtdg, and he said it's not about whether i'm picking stocks that are right or wrong. if you don't see the movement happening with the retail trader s, you look behind the 8 ball. he almost predicted what was going to happen and they have melvin capital who has their head in the sand. listen if you want to take risk and make billions, well end of game. you shouldn't get saved so the retail investor should not be discouraged because to be honest, this happened because we're putting the hammer on them all the suits are running and this is good. it stings, it's unfair but we're on the offensive. charles: oh, by the way and the melvin capital guy he shouldn't be too sad he only
made 850 million last year despite the fact he had to be bailed out. you brought uproaring kitty, he made millions on game stop, he talked about how it changed his life and he's still bullish on game stop and he told law maker ers he's a believer so let's take a listen. >> are you buying that stock today? >> well let me just say that investing can be risky in my particular approach to investing is rather aggressive and may not be suitable for anyone else but for me personally, yes. charles: all right, dave, still a buyer but the term diamond hands. if i'm in a stock i buy it at 40 and it goes to 80 usually i'm out. if it goes from 40 to 400 i'm really out. the idea of diamond hands or really, those kind of things, the individuals here, you know, what should they be doing for themselves when these stocks start to take off? >> here is the thing, and this is another pet peeve of mine that there seems to be this notion from talking heads i know cnbc loves saying chris
broussard that shed walls are too stupid to think for themselves and this isn't just a stock market, this seems to be everything. you need your handheld. there is risk in the stock market, no doubt. you shouldn't invest more than you can lose. no doubt, but there's a leading like roaring kitty is somehow leading people, shut up and let people make decisions for themselves. there's the internet and research and the reddit board is the most fair accurate representation of what's going on and all these people for most part have no side agenda so let people make decisions. some people have higher risk tolerance and some don't. you want a mutual fund knock yourself out. you want game stop go for it but let the people decide. charles: so in the meantime, some lawmakers have called out v lad for changing the rules in the middle of the game and by the same token on financial media they are saying he had no choice. i just demonstrated why i think that is a bs answer. what do you think though should
happen? i know you're no fan of him and you think he's a villain in this what should be the consequences of that? >> well we should go back to, i do think if you find any proof of wrongdoing which i doubt they will go subpoena all of the phone records you should go to jail. barring that the free market should talk. like i'm convinced robinhood won't bounce back that there will be a new trading platform, that basically has the same message as robinhood, except they mean it, which is they're there for the retail trader. nobody could trust vlad or robinhood, why would you want your money there, so i think the market will determine the market. i think they are going to be hurt and hurt long term and rightfully so. charles: if they charged, i don't know, what it'll be but if they were to charge, get rid of this paying for order flow, maybe get the settlement instantaneously instead of a couple days when all kinds of freaky things go on, if they were to make those sort of adjustments do you think this
revolution that you're a big part of can continue? i mean, with people brussel at the fact that i've got to pay a buck to trade the stock or whatever it might be. >> i don't think they will, totally, no, and i don't think that will change anything. i think the biggest blow here is perception, robinhood really, you know, their entire marketing was that they were on the side of the retail investor, that they were for the little guy and then this happened. you start finding order trade and melvin and citadel and it turns out they are just like the other guys. they are wearing a mask basically, so i think it's more just the perception of the firm, but i don't think, retail trading is here to stay. charles: a lot of people went crazy on twitter. they were thrilled you'll be on the show, and many of them asked the same question. what's dave portnoy buying now. [laughter] >> so, you know, i always get nervous, but so i'm heavily involved in gambling stocks,
because penn national which bought a minority share in bar style so i'm very familiar with that space, it's a legalized vic e, that marijuana i think it's space is green and open so i'm obviously a huge pen n guy. there's a little canadian company with canadian sports and the score tiny little company that i think is interesting, and then i have the normal guys, i still have paypal, i still like the tech guys all of the tech guys, but gambling space, people love to gamble and the retail trading shows it. charles: no, there's no doubt about it, and by the way, since you've been involved has been an absolute juggernaught. its been a pleasure talking with you, your final thoughts on where this goes and what you want to see and what you hope happens from here? >> yeah, you know, what happens when they shutdown trading cannot happen, and this pie in the sky stuff, but you can not
allow the rich guys, the billionaires the hedge funds that constantly get failed out constantly get a second chance and press the pause button. you know, one thing that i'm interested in, talking about the other day is margin. i really, you know, why are people allowed to trade on such huge margins, like people trading with things they don't have it's like going to a bookie and you have $10 in your wallet and you place $100 bet, why do we allow that that seems like something that could change a lot, but we got to make it a level playing field and continue to thrive to make that happen. charles: yeah, and to your point , you know, get rid of these synthetic puts, and you want to talk about leverage, dave, you should see the kind of leverage that the hedge funds got that's how you short 140% of a company like a game stop. it's always a pleasure, dave portnoy, thank you very much and i wanted to say on behalf of all little investors, everyone appreciates the stand that you continue to take. thank you. >> thank you, i appreciate it. always a pleasure.
charles: all right well, in the meantime, this session, the markets meandering a little bit here, but as we go to the final trade, we're going to dive into alternative investing ideas and other ways perhaps you can make some money. we'll be right back. tired of daily insulin injections? omnipod delivers insulin through a discreet waterproof pod to help simplify life. just one small pod replaces up to 14 injections. it's game-changing.
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charles: well, it's a strong today for industrials and materials, but there's another kind of rotation also going on. i want to bring in spotlight asset group cio shane that sis el. we've seen in recent months crypto spacs, they've dominated, and they're sort of opened up in this new world of investing each more for alternative investments. i know that's an area that you look at. you know, what are we talking
about here? >> so i think of spacs and bitcoin more as high-risker, high-reward types of speculative ways to invest. and while spacs are really just a different way for companies to ipo, bitcoin would be, in my opinion, something that's considered an alternative investment in that it can add diversification benefits to your portfolio if you're willing to deal with the volatility that comes along with it and to size your position accordingly. but i think of alternatives in a different way in term it is of risk management using hedging strategies. with fixed income and interest rates at zero and the risk of inflation rising and a steepening yield curve, it's really hard to get downside protection and the risk benefits that fixed income have traditionally offered in a 60-40 portfolio, so i look at ways to manage risks through alternative hedging strategies. in the past at spotlight, we've used an etf called btal which is the market-neutral anti-beta
fund, but as we've started to see is shift to cyclicals happen, we moved on to a different kind of hedging strategy using a mutual fund which is sort of like a global macro hedge fund that takes advantage of momentum in all different areas of the market including currency, equity, fixed income to help manage risk and protect some down side as we move past this reopening. i think it's important to think about that. charles: well, it sounds though like you're riding the wave in a different way. okay, you're acknowledging that it sounds like the 30-year bond market rally, in your mind, is over as these yields continue to go higher, and, you know, we've seen though when the market really goes down and gets hit, more often than not there's no real place to hide. i mean, this really -- it's hard to say i'm hedged against disaster. cash, to me, seems to be the only thing that works, but you're saying this would actually mitigate the pain if, indeed, we were to hit a big air
bump in this market rally. >> yes, that's exactly it. and and not necessarily going to protect you 100% especially if you only have a small portion, but certainly we'll be able to give you some cushion. you know, bpal, if you look at how that did in the downturn and even coming out of it in march of last year, that in particular did really well and also over the volatility oh the summer -- over the her it did really well. -- summer did really well. lower volatility stocks outperformed. ask that's what we're looking at, to manage risk. charles: right. and, by the way, folk, high beta, these are stocks that trade, they trade more volatile than the overall market. low beta, they trade with less volatility. the exciting stuff that you're making a lot of money on, high, high, high beta. she's saying offset it with a little bit of this stuff. you mentioned reopening. do you like anything here specifically for reopening? the cruise ships are up nicely, airlines up nicely, we had dr.
makary on earlier, said perhaps herd immunity in april. how to we make money on that? >> so i like the airlines. we added an etf back in the summer, and it's a basket of all the airline stocks. i didn't feel comfortable picking just one, so i chose a basket of them x that has done really well for us. and i think particularly airlines and hotels will do really welcoming out of the reopening as -- well coming out of the reopening as people want to get out there, visit people, travel, experience things. i also really like financials right now because not only to they benefit from the rebound in the economy, but in a rising rate environment they have better margins. and in an environment where the stock market's going up, some of the more diversified financials like jpmorgan benefit in three different ways, and that's a tailwind for those stocks, and they've recovered quite nicely but still have a lot of room to
run. charles: j-e-t-s! that's what we used to say at the new york jets room -- >> i'm a pack fan, so -- charles: hey, liz claman, you remember when we used to do that chant, j-e-t-s! [laughter] liz: at least the jets won. my cleveland browns are like p-l-e-a-s-e! [laughter] the weekend doesn't start yet for all of our viewers. you guys, the dow earlier captured a new all-time intraday high, bitcoin hitting a trillion dollar market cap at the moment. at least getting very close to -- oh, look at this, just happened, 55,086 at the moment. money pouring into stocks. what could go wrong? a lot. what's worrying mohamed el-erian in this last hour ofha