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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  February 24, 2021 2:00pm-3:00pm EST

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neil: all right. we crossed out 32,000. slightly under it right now. let's hope that charles payne doesn't screw this up. charles, my friend, to you. charles: i will try my best not to, that's for sure. thanks a lot, neil. good afternoon, everyone i'm charles payne this is making money. we're seeing an epic tug-of-war in the market yet bulls are winning. many parts of the investment story are changing. reopening stocks absolutely on fire. banks on fire. i've been talking about the commodity super cycle, folks. it is real. we're hearing whispers of 100-dollar oil prices. how do you handle the gyrations. we'll answer the question what ask a value stock? meanwhile president biden meeting with top lawmakers at this hour as he prepares to sign an executive order that will review the u.s. supply chain from everything from batteries
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to pharmaceuticals. we'll monitor the meeting and bring you the headlines as they happen. the biden rescue plan, i don't know if you have done the math, it come to 5700 per person per america. only $1400 is going to people so where is the rest going. i will talk with ken buck, congressman from colorado and deneen borelli, all that and more on more on "making money"? charles: he is back. day two of fed chair jerome powell speaking to congress as this time members on the senate side. like yesterday it has mostly been dodging efforts by congress to sort of endorse their own policies, right, their own ideas. trying to create an air of confidence that the fed can maintain control of inflation long enough to enact at least their version of social justice. but the stock market really
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looks like it will continue to react at least at the open. it is reacting to the sharp spikes in buying yields, really cautiously. also the overarching changes in this market, folks. in the last two weeks we've seen a whole lot of things change. so the question is, are these short term blips or are they really long term changes you should be invested in. i have the perfect panel to discuss. they have got the answers. here with us kaltbaum capital management gary kaltbaum, bulltick capital market chief strategist, katheryne rooney vera. can phil blancato. can the fed keep rates this low with bond yields rising at this pace? >> they can until inflation is beyond their control. beyond their control is above 3 1/2% range. charles: wow. >> that is clearly no longer the
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target, right? charles: okay. hold on one second. let me jump in here. 3 1/2 for the cpi inflation number, not for the 10-year yield, right? many people are worried over 2%, 2 1/2%. you're saying they can take it to three, 3 1/2% before it is a problem? >> absolutely, charles. as your introduction was so, was so correct and so accurate this is a fed no longer considers itself as having a dual mandate which as we know explicitly says 2% inflation an full employment. this is a fed that is wedded to the idea it has a role to play as social justice warrior. very nice to think, but really is that the role of the federal reserve. here to fare what we've seen is, almost to the exclusion of everything else, what the fed has been successful in is propping up the equity markets.
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if you're one of the minority americans that has a very nice proportion of your wealth in equity markets, you love the fed, right? charles: right, right. >> if you're unemployed, if you're working mother that has to work two or three jobs, you're looking and seeing, hey, who is getting rich? i'm certainly not. charles: yeah. >> so i think that is, willing to go beyond the 2% -- to come back. climate change to engage in [inaudible]. that is the issue. charles: 3 1/2% is mind-boggling. gary, i know you're no fan of the federal reserve but a lot of people coming into the week requesting whether jay powell could articulate the kind of confidence that wall street wants to see, that he can kind of keep this thing going. looks like he has done this. we made a massive reversal off of yesterday's low. >> well, look in order of my
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favorites, number one is root canal, number two is jay powell. look, let me state this for the record. jay powell is not in control of anything. all he is doing is cutting a higher credit card to pay for the last one. this is just more debt, more deficits, more printing of money and now he is doing it. by the way the lemmings around the globe following him. he is doing it when the economy is opening up, when the virus is crashing. when hospitalization is crashing and you're seeing the outcome. we have been telling you, charles, for a while. we thought the ultimate outcome would be a meltup in the market t continues. the players have changed a little it b no longer is amazon and apple leading. they're kind of dead money but all the vaccine trade which started on november 9th is kicking in gear in a very big way now. i expect a lot of -- charles: very big way.
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>> i expect 17 to 20,000 nasdaq over the next six to nine months. the dow 35 to 40. charles: wow. >> after meltups come the opposite. that is what we'll have to be really ready for. let me repeat, jay powell has control of nothing. this is all about debt, deficits and printing of money. charles: meantime, though, phil you admired the way jay powell helped the nation get you there pandemic but to gary's point and also kathryn, you throw in things like climate change, employment inequalities, you also start to figure that the economy is building a head of steam, feels like they're going into a minefield with a rigid set of paths that ignores some of these potential dangers? >> well, there is no doubt and i'm not in gary or kathryn es camp. i agree with either one of them. i agree with gary that he is powerless or not doing anything. we needed fed to do get us to
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this point. i don't agree with the 1.9 trillion. i'm in their camp on that one. federal reserve historically had the dual mandates. adding on more mandates it does give me pause no doubt about it. because i am worried about regardless what the fed wants to do or doesn't want to do, 10-year, 1.40, 1.38 before this call. regardless what the fed wants, mortgage applications are down week over week. higher interest rates on 10-year u.s. treasury will be a more expensive u.s. economy. so in the end what they want to do and what the markets are going to let them do are two different things. so i am concerned about new mandate at that they have never tried before. the implications of what it might do to interest rates, how quickly they can go higher. charles: let me remind the audience, they were created in 1913 because we had so much volatility in our economy. go back in your history books. in the 1800s, we had four crashes that rivaled the great
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depression. they were so awful, they called them panics. the media agreed never to use panic, use depression, sounds less scary. they have been not able to stop the business cycle with these things. agree with everyone there. i think there is opportunity. i've been pounding the commodity super cycle particularly oil. there are whispers of 70-dollar west texas intermediate. are you in the commodity super cycle? if so, how can our viewers to make money on it. >> this is your opportunity, buddy. to gary's point, hot on this a long time, classic sectors that do well in reopening environment out of recession? simple. banks, energy. there is the opportunity, plays into commodities. i'm not a gold bug. i think you have success in the energy sector. banking sector. enjoy the rally. no problem with owning john
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deere. the fed helps us get here, so the economy goes to there. so there i completely agree with gary. >> yay. charles: what do you like here? >> i think because of confidence in what we call fiat money is more likely than not going to be the next down cycle. it is going to bring about the next big correction. and i can't tell you when that is going to be. as we accumulate the amount of deficit and debt, at the rate we're doing it right now, i think it gets more and more a case that favors gold. so i do like gold. i will even tell you that bitcoin is starting to -- in my purview because it is alternative to gold trade. charles: right. >> i think you're right, there is not much value out there right now and as long as you see inflation at bay, the fed unlikely to move rates higher because of this abundance of
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targets they now have, then you do have to remain. all we said, charles -- [inaudible]. we have to protect against the inflation. you can do that by the purchase of tips which the fed is buying. charles: all right. >> put options to -- options. charles: we got you there. gary, we know, you've us a given us some ideas. i have got some breaking news. we'll have to leave it there, guys. we always enjoy conversations. we have breaking news on the federal reserve. we're getting reports that their systems are down. edward lawrence has the details. reporter: charles, this is specifically the fed wire system. this is the system that wires money from banks to other banks as well as from banks to process say mortgages if someone is trying to buy a home or investors trying to send large sums of money. the ach transfer system, it has seen disruptions today. that means that money is not flowing through the federal reserve going to its destination. no one can do a wire transfer or
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transfer large sums of money. officially the federal reserve is saying this, quote, a federal reserve operational error resulted in disruption of service in several business lines. we are restoring services and are communicating with the federal reserve financial services customers about the status of operations. right now that system is down. large transfers of money is not happening in this system. they are working to get that system back up and running. it went down this afternoon and this is obviously a big deal. the i.t. operations for federal reserve, moved into the richmond federal reserve that is the federal reserve system they're working on this, and trying to the got system up and running. back to you. charles: if your brother-in-law said he sent a wire, maybe this time he is not lying. markets are holding up pretty well. thanks a lot, edward. speaking of holding up pretty
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charles: bitcoin bouncing back after stumbling at the start of the week. in the last 24 hours we've seen some major developments that added more credibility to cryptocurrency. yesterday it turned higher, after cathie wood made positive comments. square, when they reported their numbers added $170 million. that went along with their initial $50 million buy. that driven by consumer demand. their customers want to use it. right before the open this morning, micro strategy
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announced they purchased another billion dollars worth of bitcoin. talk about putting your money where your mouth is. the naysayers are working on new ways to pour cold water on this story. joining me, blockfi, lori marquez. talk about the big spike. the last over the weekend. then a serious pullback. i tried to bring on a lot of bitcoin experts. the lovers tell me, this is the characteristic, if you have to invest in it you have to become accustomed or used to the wild gyrations. why the occasional 10, 20% pullbacks? >> yeah. i think it is really interesting to look at the volatility of the asset class. it is really important to remember that crypto is traded worldwide. it is just thinks that happen in the u.s. that affected price. what i heard from the trading desk. we saw the yield curve kick up. when that happens, people tend to sell out of tech stocks.
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that could have caused a small dip we saw earlier this week. what i think is interesting about bitcoin maybe people forget when they i think about it just as a tech stock, is exactly what kathy mentioned, it is a ultimate hedge, a a stock and hedge against inflation. i said time and time again volatility is opportunity. buy the dip. charles: here is the thing, limited number of bitcoins ultimately can be mined has always been a central part of the proposition. some people are saying there is too limited a amount that is going to impact the growth of it. it will hurt liquidity. is that the new bear reason not to be in bitcoin. what do you say to someone now that is their concern, there will not being enough bitcoin? >> i think the more institutional players you see moving into the space, the more platforms that you see offer liquidity to wife and sell crypto, really that makes it
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easier to buy into the space and one thing that you mentioned earlier we saw, we see all the news, paypal, square, everyone purchasing more about it coins but you also mentioned retail investors. one thing i see that is interesting, right now we're not seeing any liquidity issues. our q1 trading volumes are five times what we saw in q4 and nearly 60% of that retail trading activity is wifing bitcoin and ethereum. so people want to buy this asset class. charles: all right. let's talk about your business, blockfi crypto savings account. i saw on your thread, 8.6% annualized percentage yield versus like .7 of 1% for the industry. how do you pull that off? business must be booming? >> yeah. there is a lot of demand on both sides. so at a high level we have retail clients that have crypto or send us cash get turned into stable coin. we take those assets an lend it out to institutions.
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every single day we're seeing more institutions moving into the space not just in the u.s. but europe and apac as well. it will keep growing. that is what we'll see at blockfi. i don't think this trend will slow down anytime soon. charles: i tend to agree with you, volatility aside this is a powerful trend that doesn't look like it will get weak anytime soon. thank you, very much, flori, for sharing your thoughts. we always like to get the inside scoop if you will. in the latest move house democrats are showing that the top priority is forcing workers to join unions. republican congressman ken buck to share what he thinks of his colleagues actions. senator mitt romney surprising many people trump would win the 2024 gop nomination in a landslide. deneen borelli will talk about this important admission from the 2012 gop nominee after the
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charles: democrats attempting to override state right to work laws. they're talking about forcing workers to pay out of their pocket to join a union. hillary vaughn joining us live from capitol hill with the latest. reporter: charles, house democrats already tried to do this once last year by passing a bill that would outlaw right to work laws but they didn't have the majority in the senate then, so it did not get a vote in upper chambers. house democrats want a do-over. they're interesting the pro act the bill they passed on last year. to get a vote in the senate. right to work laws are racist relics the jim crow south to prevent unization of black and white workers. the pro act would overturn racist anti-worker laws to insure every worker has the right to unionize. the president of the right to
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work committee. this time the bill becoming law is a real threat. tells me it is actually congress that gives state the freedom to have right-to-work laws in the first place. so this freedom can easily be taken back by congress. if pro act is passed, workers could show up to work, cough you have union dues or lose your job. >> right to work laws are economic engine for this country. of the right to work laws job creation in right-to-work states far outstrips in forced union states. more than 75% of all companies, people looking to invest or grow jobs in this country will automatically kick out of a state that doesn't have a right to work law part port job growth in right-to-work states versus states with no right-to-work laws, the stats speak for themselves. in places like california and new york where workers can be forced into joining a union, job
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growth dropped significantly over past five years laws. in states like nevada, texas, it popped. republicans have their own proact rebuttal. senator rand paul would issue the right to work act that would establish right to work as a federal rule across the board. so it wouldn't matter anymore what state you lived in, every worker would have the right to work and opt out of joining a union. charles? charles: i hope they don't reverse this. thank you, hillary. joining me republican congressman from colorado, ken buck. colorado is not a right-to-work state but enough states have joined this movement in the last five years to hillary's point and it has worked mightily. it provided amazing jobs in places like alabama. so why now do we see the federal, members of the federal government trying to overturn
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what states decided for themselves? >> yeah, charles what you're seeing is a lurch to the left we could anticipate with the biden administration coming into office. the democrats having a small majority in the house and 50-50 tie with the tiebreaker in the senate. so i don't think this bill passes but i think it is just an element, it's a sign of what is to come if the democrats continue to win offices. american people return republicans to the majority in the hours and senate in two years. charles: but it just, i know there is a, there has always been the sort of argument overstates versus the federal government. we saw a lot of that with the vaccine the approach how individual states were able to close and while some weren't. i think that was an unmitigated disaster. california and new york had the right to do what they wanted to do. people are worried. this is the sort of big government stuff that scares the heck out of people this is the easiest way to take away our freedoms.
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>> absolutely. people should be scared. when the socialists take over this is exactly what happens. and we need to be really concerned about it. we need to make sure that states are, states know what is best for them. even states that don't know what is best for them. at least they suffer the consequences. until of course congress passes a $1.9 trillion stimulus bill, that is going to bail out the state has have made terrible decisions and how they handle covid and also right to work law. charles: right on that bill, of course there is a lot of questions about where the money is going on this thing. you know, interesting because, one of our colleagues from colorado put out an interesting tweet this morning noting that there is 328 million americans. 1.$9 trillion. $5700 per american. but you know, some people will get 1400-dollar paychecks. where is the rest of the money going? talking about representative lauren boebert.
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she says, thank liberals. that is a big gulf. where is the money going? >> we know where some of the money is going. i'm sure they're hiding a lot of money. some of the money is going to a rail project in nancy pelosi's district in california. some is going to a major road project bridge expenditure in chuck schumer's new york. everybody has their finger in this pie to make sure their home states, the blue states, folks voting for this are going to be paid off really well. charles: got another tweet to get your reaction to. senator josh hawley is propoising his own minimum wage plan but focuses on the blue-collar worker. on this plan, making less than $16.50 lars an hour will receive a tax credit worth up to 50% of the difference. do you like this idea? makes sense, more nuanced to lower paid workers and?
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>> it is more nuanced. my perspective one size fits all plans from washington, d.c., are inappropriate. look at just colorado, in the denver area, high cost of living, higher wages, in rural colorado, low cost of living, lower wages. having d.c. what decide what is right for the country is a disaster. charles: congressman buck, always appreciate it. thank you very much. joining me now, folks, fox news contributor deneen borelli. you know let me get your thoughts on this rescue package. it is $5700 per american. we know, some people will get 1400 bucks. as you heard from the congressman, it is a whole lot of stuff in there that have nothing to do with the rescue, covid, anything else other than looks like political favors. >> you're absolutely right, charles. when it comes to democrats. i said this numerous times on your show. they never let a crisis go to waste. they are exploiting what is
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happening with americans in this pandemic with this so-called relief package because there are a lot of pet projects and pork in this package. the congressman mentioned a number of things but there is also the fact that the democrats have tinkered with the formula. so you will have blue states bailed out, gives cali irresponsible blue states like new york. a lot of this money has nothing to do with people who are suffering. >> i'm not sure if you had a chance to hear hillary right before we began this segment. she talked about the right to work stuff that the democrats are saying they want to remove that from states. they said it was racist, right? i got to tell you this whole thing about democrats selling their ideology on how it hurts black people, i think it's a lie. i'm also offended they would use the suffering of black people, hundreds of years of it to affect an agenda. the wealth tax, that has nothing to do with blacks people. climate change they're talking
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about. i remember aoc talking about black kids in the south bronx with asthma. something completely to do, nothing with climate change. student debt over well mingly would be white professionals would get $50,000. none of this stuff really is to help black people they always push black people to the front the reason they're doing it. do you ever get offended by that? >> in their head, in their world, charles, that, playing the race card they think it works for them. it is an emotional issue. when you don't have facts and figures to argue your point, democrats reach for the race card. it is just that simple. i think it is outrageous. i also think it is dangerous. they do this on a regular basis. they don't have an argument. charles: yeah, time to talk, time to address racial issues. things that they don't want to pass. they use something nothing to do with it. actually hurt real issues that should be addressed.
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by the way, are you familiar with the quality act. what is the deal with this? >> nothing equal about this equality act, charles. what i want to point out about it, there is a lot to unpack but i want to point out the fact that what it does is prioritize transsexual, i got to get terminology right, transgender, sorry, girls or women over biological females. i'm looking at this for one example from a competitive aspect. i'm a former high school track star. it was hard enough for me to run against girls. so imagine having to compete against biological males on your team? there goes your chances for a scholarship, perhaps go to the olympics, whatever awards and accolades that could come with it. this is a really, really bad policy, piece of legislation that the left is pushing. charles: deneen, we covered a
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lot. always appreciate it. see you again real soon. >> thanks, charles. charles: i got to tell you, folks, he went into the lion's den. talking about the ceo of robinhood. he sat down for a grilling from his harshest critic of dave portnoy. you can guess. it was not a stroll in the park. >> you know everybody here is watching us hates your guts, right? >> that is what i hear. but, looking i'm glad to be on your show and hopefully we can get into it and answer a lot of these questions. ♪. insurance is cool. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪
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lower mortgage rates mean higher savings. ♪. >> robinhood, clearly they're marketing everybody about them, we're going, democratizing trading, for the retail trader, all that that is the branding of robinhood. it clearly worked. when you force people to sell you only allowing them to sell but they can't buy.
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you cratered the stock. charles: barstool sports founder, friend of program, david portnoy taking the ceo of robinhood to the social media woodshed. holding vlad den tenev, holding his feet to the fire. he had an excuse to everything was really wrong s this enough to get them off the hook? i want to bring in reaction, strategic wealth advisors president, mark tepper. i give vlad credit for doing it but what are your thoughts? again i think it was fantastic. we learned a lot more than we did with congress but he still wasn't convincing? >> i agree. i love dave portnoy. the guy is amazing. incredibly entertaining. fight for the middle guy. i don't necessarily completely agree with dave here. there was a video a week ago,
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congressman anthony gonzalez was interviewing vlad. that was the most fair and accurate overview i have seen. my issue with robinhood, they have positioned themselves as the firm that would democratize investing for the little guy but they botched it. they couldn't handle it. they were exposed. they just weren't ready. they had a crash crunch, they would have been in bad shape, their clients would have been in bad place but they brought it on themselves. i never seen a platform make it so easy for people to buy puts or calls who don't have any idea what a put or call is. you take your thumb and press it and it is crazy. charles: my show last week with dave, i showed ad chart, if you look at first day of trading this year, they did $170 million worth of volume. when the volume went from 4 billion from 170 million, to 25 billion, you as a brokerage
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firm know you need to capital. i'm not disputing whether are or not you needed capital, i'm disputing they dragged their feet to the last minute, americans they had to stop trading. that is the real sin committed. if you have to stop buying, should you stop selling until they get their fiscal house in order? >> from my perspective, no. if you have to sell unfat natalie you need the money, you need the money. you show up to the atm at the beige and they don't give your money people will not be very happy. people were not happy about buying stock. dave is, robinhood took the air out of this trade, they spread did. momentum was behind it t was grossly overvalued. no way it should have been trading $400 a share but robinhood took the air out of the trade. charles: absolutely. when every financial advisor in the people told peoples
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grandparents to buy ge at 54, turns out it was grossly overvalued. >> yeah. charles: i want to ask you about this, vlad said he was proud of what happened. let's take a listen to that. >> i'm proud of the way that the team handled the crisis by and large we were able to protect the firm. we were able to prevent customers from having a bigger -- >> that is, how can you, in that line you just said, proud of how we handled it, how can that be possible? like you guys are billed as a firm to retail traders. >> yeah. >> and you screwed them over. charles: so mark, i'm a solutions oriented guy. i have a minute to go. let's focus on robinhood. what the ultimate take from our viewers? what should they take away from this. >> the they were completely ill-prepared. there is nothing they should be
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proud of. they have taken investing, which is a very sophisticated thing for people to do. it requires homework. it requires research. they made it into a social media and gaming platform. if you open the app, that is it what it looks like. there is no analytics. i can't find moving average. maybe you can in robinhood gold whatever the upgraded system is. most people are using the base model robinhood app. there is nothing in there for investors. the main takeaway, if you're starting off they have done some great things for brand new investors but i they have as you grow your portfolio you should look elsewhere. find a new custodian. charles: mark, always a pleasure my man. talk to you real soon. >> thanks. charles: have you seen this? new home sales jumping again, this time in january. the housing boom has been absolutely remarkable but some are wondering if it could be derailed? by the way i will share my housing stock picks with you. there is a hot market but the names are not always what you might think. grab a pad and a pencil. we'll be right back.
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♪. charles: folks, the demand for new homes continues to surge. in fact more than 4% in january, as housing continues to be one
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of the really bright spots in this economy. home prices also continue to soar. more than 10% in the last report. and that, by the way, is, the first time we saw a double-digit increase in prices since 2014. buyers are scooping up homes. we know the building boom is exploding. joining me the chairman of the national association of homebuilders, chuck fo u.k. chuck, despite the wind in the sales of housing i look at the nahb index, your index and it peaked in november, stalling even drifting a little bit. where is the disconnect from the amazing housing numbers we keep getting and your index? >> well, charles, first, let me thank you for giving me the opportunity to be with you here today and let me say that prior to the pandemic, our nation's economy and housing were very strong. and then today, many segments of our economy are stumbling
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somewhat but housing is in position right now. we're bringing our nation's economy back to prosperity. and if our numbers begin to stumble somewhat, we're still remaining at all-time highs right now. charles: you're at all-time highs. there is no doubt about it. and you've got the momentum but there are a couple areas i got to ask you about. maybe there is concern. obviously lumber prices are one. lumber chart went parabolic, all-time high. we keep talking about higher interest rates and mortgage applications. they're starting to wobble a little bit. how concerned are you about those impacting your momentum? >> well, charles, lumber is a tremendous concern of ours right now. housing affordability is foremost. we aren't building enough houses. we don't have enough homes in inventory right now. so affordability become as
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challenge. with lumber prices increasing in since last april, i believe the number is 170% up, it is added $24,000 to the average home across the nation. charles: wow. >> so therefore affordability becomes a problem. charles: right. >> let me give you a number. for everyone how dollars houses go up in price, 150,000 people across the nation are pushed out of the market to own a home. charles: wow, that is amazing. we had toll brothers report. a blockbuster number. they showed a jump. at some point, they're on the luxury end, at some point you have to wonder for the industry you can't continue to pass on these costs, can you? >> no, sir. right now we have conditions where many builders are obtaining building permits and not starting the houses.
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we have some builders that have started the houses and have them in the initial slab stage. they stopped construction. i heard reports in the last week that some homebuilders across the nation are closing up the model centers because they know they can't produce. in order to maintain being affordable, policymakers have to make sure that to look out for is regulations. we have to have home sites. material costs are very, very important and labor has been a challenge over the past few years. it will continue to be a challenge in years to come. charles: chuck, let me jump in here real quick because i'm out of time. >> yes, sir. charles: i have to ask you something, please give me a quick answer on this, have we seen a change in the attitudes of millenials? do they want to own that single-family home the way their parents did, the way they didn't before the pandemic? seemed like they were all fine crowding into the big apartment buildings. is it here to stay where millenials want to be homebuilders? >> after the great resession
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media was saying homeownership was out of window. people would become renters. homeowner ship is important as it was before. the american dream is alive and people wantown their home. charles: you and your organization are doing an amazing job to help people get there. chuck, thank you very much, my friend. homebuilder rally, chuck talked about some of the reason why, it is stalling. cost of homes are soaring. investors worry about about the margins. there are ways to benefit. kb homes has the strongest earnings trends. clovessed above 45. this bad boy is off to the races maybe another 15%. on the furniture side, look at a small furniture company, hook are furniture. that its intriguing to me. if you want to be laser focused on the opportunities that is all about the kitchen that is the real value created. i love middleby. it has amazing range of stones and oven. mercury, viking, stuff only
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restaurants had before. you look at that stock. you will probably be happy. we'll be right back. we started with computers. we didn't stop at computers. we didn't stop at storage or cloud. we kept going.
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something that i missed on the way up the fist time. -- first time. here with us now, michelle snyder. let's talk about the importance of the kind of buy and sell signals you get are them. how do you employ them? >> we like to look at the charts with the moving averages because they tell you about phases. so a perfect example that we can use today really is nasdaq which dropped all the way down ott to the 50-day moving average yesterday and then today held it. that gives you a great level of support. and on the flipside, when something clears the 50-day moving average and below it, then we look at it as more positive and you have another pivotal area to look at. so it's really important to have some kind of price history, this way you can tune out the noise and focus strictly on what the charts are telling you to do. charles: now, for me, the charts are also partly behavioral analysis because you know this is where either think sold
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before or where -- they sold before or where buyers emerged before. i guess the idea is if they hold there, there's not going to be any more downside pressure, something like that. is that why they seem to work so well? >> well, yeah, you have a lot of institutional investors and retail investors looking at the same chart, so there is that. but really, basically, what it's telling you is that the technicals often precede the fundamentals. if you take an example like tilray, in the past it started to move out of its range of the 50-day moving average long before the news came out about it selling medical weed to europe, for example. that's why it's important to look at the charts. it could be a lagging indicator, but it really gives you information about what could happen going forward. charles: you know, michelle, real quick, i know you like regional banks and transportation, boeing acting great today. and i've got less than 30
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seconds, but you still think those are places people can make some money right now in. >> i think so, especially if we get any kind of talk of an infrastructure package which, of course, we know is buzzing around right now. charles: that's going to happen. >> it is. well, then there you go. charles: $2 or 3 trillion. michelle, thank you very much. liz claman, got a pretty good move here going into the last hour of trading. liz: how about the russell? the small caps, 2% gain here, 44 points. yeah, you know, charles -- [inaudible] neither do we. if you bought on yesterday's dips, you are cheering right now. dow stocks from american express to caterpillar, to goldman sachs and disney all hitting record highs as we head into the final hour of trade. we've got a hawkeye as well on those 10-year yields. there's a clear inverse correlation going on right now. we are on pace for the tenth dow record because yields came down


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