tv Charlie Rose PBS February 5, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PST
>> welcome to the program. i'm betty lou. chortz is out on assignment. we have a debate. between hillary clinton and bernie sanders that took place this evening at the university of new hampshire. >> senator sanders is campaigning against you -- if you said singer health payer could never happen then you're too far to the right of the democratic party to be the party's standard bearer. given those policy positions, why should liberal democrats
support you and not senator sandmqprogressive who gets thins done. and the route of that word progressive is progress. but i've heard senator sanders comments and it's really caused me to wonder who is left in the progressive wing of the democratic party. under his definition, president obama's not progressive because he took donations from wall street. vice president biden is not progressive because he supported keystone. senator is not progressive because she supports the trade been pacts. went senator paul stone wouldn't get this because he voted for doma. we have differences and honestly i think we should be talking about what we want to do for the country. to get into labels, i don't think it was particularly progressive to vote against the brady bill five times. i don't think it was progressive to vote against gun makers. i don't think it was progressive to vote against ted kennedy's
immigration reform. so we can go back and forth like this, but the fact is most people watching tonight want to know what we've done and what we will do. that's why i am laying out a specific agenda that will make progress, get more jobs with rising incomes, get us to universal healthcare coverage, get us universal pre-k, paid family leave and the other elements what i think will build a strong economy that will ensure that americans keep making progress. that's what i'm offering and that's what i will do as president. >> senator sanders. establish a list what it means to be progressive unrealistic. >> not at all. here's the reality of economic life today. reality is we have one of the lowest voting turnouts of a major country on earth because so many people have given up on the political process.> the reality is there has been
trillions of dollars of wealth going from the middle class in the last 30 years to the top 10 tenth of 1%. the reality is we have a corrupt campaign finance system which separates the american people's needs and desires from what congress is doing. so to my mind, what we have got to do is wage a political revolution where millions of people who have given up on the political process stand up and fight back, demand the government that represents us and not just a handful of campaign contributions, contributors. now all of the ideas that i'm talking about, theyradical idea. making colleges and universities tuition twree, that exists in countries all over the world. used to twist in the united states. rebld our crumbling infrastructure and creating 13 million jobs by doing away with
tax loopholes that large corporations now enjoy by putting their money into the cayman islands and other tax havens. that is not a radical idea. what we need to do is to stand up to the big money interests and the campaign contributors. when we do that, we can in fact trans form america. >> thank you senator. >> we continue with charlie's interview with chef danny bowien. >> it's not just a restaurant. it's a family and it's my family. just tons of people. there are so many people when we started out together, my business partner andsa i anthon, we were just up to and we thought we could run the whole restaurant by ourselves. and now we have like a hundred people that work for us, it's pretty crazy. it's much more than another
restaurant. >> we continue with another install of al hunt on the story. al reports from new hampshire with a look at the primary from that state. >> for me it's because it's a small state and the candidatesv. once you leave new hampshire, you go into a bubble. if you become president, you live in a bubble. and so unfortunately, people are not forced to interact with real every day voters the way they are in new hampshire. and i think that's an important thing. if you're going to elect a leader, that leader you should have to interact, talk to and learn from the voters. you have to do that in new hampshire. >> we conclude this evening with the film touched with fire. charlie talks with the director paul dalio, actor lark kirby and dr. jay redfield jamison. >> it's very hard to comprehend but you're find of after a lifetime of building your identity within your place in
humanity to suddenly be told you are defective humanity. and to know that you're not going to be the person you used to be. and that you will at best be able to get by. it's life shattering and the only labels you had to choose from are some form of a disorder, depression, bipolar disorder. >> chef danny bowien, al hunt on the story in new hampshire and the film touched with fire when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> rose: additional funding provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.
captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: dannyy he's the chef and co-founder ofñ mission chinese food in san francisco and new york and mission cantina in new york. he was named rising star ship by the james beard foundation in 2013. his new book is called the mission chinese food cookbook. david chang calls it a portrait of an artist still in progress. i'm please to do have danny bowien at this table. welcome. >> i'm so pleased to be here. >> rose: now listen. david king is god around here, god. >> yes. he's an angel. >> rose: well for us he's god. this is what he said in the forward to this book. i have tried his food in san francisco before he came out to new york and to be honest i remember being upset that this was doing something i wanted to do forever. but i got over my anger relatively quickly when i saw how well he was executing it.
danny genuinely innovative in how he thinks about chinese cooking. >> chang's amazing. we were talking about this before we started. he was really instrumental in me getting hover fear -- over sphere of opening in new york. you look at this guy that was just going for it and that was kind of what, it definitely helped when you come to new york. >> rose: what's the like to come to new york. with a reputation. >> yes, that was crazy. it's scary, you know. it's exciting, it's scary. and then you just get down to it. it's hard. it's really tough. it's really really tough. >> rose: new york is the toughest. >> i honestly, i think every market is tough to crack in its own ways, i'm sure. but i think new york is really tough, you know.
it's often extremely rewarding because it's so tough. >> rose: because it's the big enchilada. what is your story. adopted by parents from oklahoma. >> yes. i was three months old when i was adopted and i grew up in oklahoma city. >> rose: great basketball team. >> they were there when i was there. i don't know of any professional sports. >> rose: what was it like. your mother was an inspiration. >> my mother was an inspiration. she was a stay at home mom. my dad worked for general motors. he loved it,b% you know. he worked there until he retired. and so i had a pretty stable. i had a great childhood, great parents. my mother's inspiration, even from cooking. >> rose: when she died. >> i was like 18. >> rose: that was a huge moment for you.
>> it was very very pivotal because for the first time ever like my mom had provided for the family. she had made food. i think that's where as far as inspiration goes i would stay with her during the day. when school was on, i would stay home and watch her cook. when she passed away i took over the cooking responsibilities. >> rose: did you have a feeling for it, an instinct for it, an interest for it. >> i kind of enjoyed cooking but it wasn't at the'u level of serious. i just liked making food. i think what i enjoy the most is bringing people together and having a gathering. having people together is important for me. >> rose: what's your schedule like. >> i have a two year old. almost two. it started to actually level out. i think having my son kind of helped me, i can't work in a restaurant 90 hours a week. but my schedule is usually, my wife and i trade with him
certain days. i wake up with him on monday's and fridays when he goes to day care. he gets up earlier like around six. >> rose: what's the most surprising thing about being a father. >> the most surprising. that it's physical. >> rose: definitely. any parent you know will tell you it's difficult. >> i think the mostthing about u know, i guess the most surprising thing in a very positive way, no matter what is suppressing me out in life, having a restaurant and being at work all the time is stressful. but when you see your child, it's amazing how just uplifting it is. >> rose: here's my comment on that. when you get married, you find someone whose life is as important as yours. when you have a child you find someone whose life is more
important than yours. >> yes, totally. that's amazing the way you said it. it's so true. i think that i also kind of like, i feel like i found myself in a lot of ways and i think about myself i didn't know. i have feelings i didn't know i had before. >> rose: like what. >> well you know it's interesting. being adopted, my parents obviously are the parents i grew up with. they are my parents. but i felt this connection with my son lately that's wild. it's the first two years -- >> rose: i hadn't thought about, about the parents. having been adopted and you become a parent you think about the blood thing differently. >> it's kind of crazy. it's like this really, it's really amazing showing that i have this family and my wife, my family. it's amazing. >> rose: you want more. >> i don't know about that. new york is tough to have, anywhere is tough. but i think one is good for now.
>> rose: when you your career, did you roar out of oklahoma city into san francisco. >> i would say i rushed out. >> rose: you wanted to go do things. >> yeah, definitely, definitely. >> rose: what was that thing you wanted to do? >> well ... >> rose: did you want to be somebody. >> i wanted to get out of oklahoma. i feel like i didn't really attend college. i tried to and it justment f or -- just wasn't for me. i played music. i had a band. the band broke up and i didn't have anything. i worked in optometrist's offi. i went to san francisco to visit my friends and there's a culinary school there. and it's like you've always been interested in food why don't you go to the culinary school. i said okay let me come check it out. i went theand i was hooked.
not really on the culinary school but more like san francisco is an amazing city. it's just, but i did, yes, i did rush out of oklahoma. >> rose: here's what anthony bourdain says. most immigrants from asia are changing, defining and redefining forever what american cuisine really is. >> that's nuts. this is crazy for me to hear, the chang and bourdains. >> rose: they think you've got something. >> they have something for sure. >> rose: they think you've got something. >> i mean i think i've got something too finally. >> rose: did success prove it to you. it had that effect. >> i think success proved it to. others prove it tothink. bourdain and chang every day.
>> rose: is a friend. >> totally, close friend. >> rose: what draws these people to you? >> i don't know. >> rose: you shared something. >> yes. it's like a non-spoken thing, we're all chefs, our job is pretty hard. we all love, creative. but i think with them and me i have no idea. it's really, it's still because you know, you come up, six years ago i was just reading about these guys. they were my idols. they still are. >> rose: now you're their idol. >> now i'm their friend. i think it's just, it never gets, i always feel it takes me a second. i never really gotten a chance to soak it all in and realize what it is. >> rose: do you know what i say? keep at it, work hard enjoy it.
that's the secret. >> that's part of it, enjoying it. giving yourself time to process everything. >> rose: here's another thing. you have sustained difficulties along the way. >> yeah, totally. >> rose: you come here and you start mission chinese. and what happens? >> well a lot of good things happened. >> rose: a lot of good things. >> a lot of bad things happened. we were opening a restaurant in new york, first time opening a restaurant anywhere. we come here and from day one it was difficult. but the most difficult thing was when we got shut down by the health department. they came through it and we were new to operating. there's no excuse. we can blame it on the building, blame it on the landlord. we are the tenants. it's eye opening. we're closing the restaurant. for structural issues, health code violations. and that was crazy.
and it happened once and it happened a second time. right after we reopened, we rushed to reopen just because we didn't know what to do. and we tried whatever was best to bring the building up. we're now in a new space, we're good. we tried to reopen there and they closed us down. we're having trouble with theq building and landlord, we stopped, we stopped for a while, you know. like mission chinese was closed for like a year. in new york. so this was, it brings everything, you know, after a while it was just like wow, this is happening. and it kind of made me appreciate it. >> rose: all of it. >> yeah. it took a while. but when you have, the first person i call, the first person who called me, i had a call from rene, it's in the book, he
called me and it's like what's going on. i was doing an event in san francisco. >> rose: and he's in copenhagen. >> copenhagen. he called me on the phone. i didn't have his phone number. he had my number. >> rose: he gave you what. >> he gave me a really, henare . i said for what. he said i don't know, are you ready, they're coming for you. you got to be ready, they're going to come for you. you're wounded, everyone sees you're wooded. they need to come for you and you need to make sure you're strong enough to handle it and also willing to come back, you know. when the best chef in the world tells you that, it makes it a little bit easier to know that you have the support of a friend. >> rose: somebody knows where you are and are there to help you. >> yes. and that helps out. i just knew that after that happened, i just knew that you know, there's no question that we were going to get back on our
feet again. >> rose: and you're a success. >> chinese is a success, cantina is success. i feel like today i'm a success. i have a beautiful family and i made it through everything. and we're successful. >> rose: are people in oklahoma city just thrilled to death. >> i hope so. i'm going to go back there. >> rose: let's talk about the book. the mission chinese food cookbook. what's in this book. you call it a dialogue about food. >> right. i started writing this book before. >> rose: you and chris. >> yes. before i moved to new york. we were moving from new york to open a new restaurant here and the book was done then. we made ao) deal with anthony bourdain. >> rose: and david chang. >> yes. we put it out through anthony bourdain in print and echo.
and you know, it was just like anthony, the good thing about doing the book with anthony, he was like you guys are great just do whatever you want. it was due in about a year and-a-half. it took three years to write because the restaurant closed. we open a restaurant close it twice, reopen two restaurants or open mission cantina and mission chinese too. so it's a dialogue of about like what mission chinese food is. we want to keep track of what was happening. >> rose: so what is chinese food. >> my life. we wanted to, i guess we wanted to keep like just for ourselves &keep track of everything that's happening. >> rose: listen to this. this is actually interesting. i've alluded to this and i close with this anthony bourdain again. what follows is not just a cookbook. yes there are recipes here for some of the tastiest most
insanely flavor packed addictive dishes you are ever likely to find yes. but it's also a story, a uniquely american one about a do everything wrong and have itnd up brilliantly, gloriously right. a true story. >> yeah. it's very kind words. it sums it up, though, it's true. like i think that getting all the success we have to date and moving a lot of that success could have gone really bad. regaining more, yeah. it's an amazing story. it's great and i'm happy that >> rose: do yougo still love to cook. >> i love to cook still. i got kind of dark there for a minute. i found that when everything seems wrong, it's like if i can just cook. everything going wildly wrong in my life, but if i can just cook, everything seems okay, you know. and that's what's beautiful about food and cooki is that
for me it's just, it really centers me. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thanks for having me. >> rose: the book is called the mission chinese food cookbook, danny bowien, back in a moment. stay with us. >> there is no more venerable institution in american politics than the new hampshire primary. it's a hundred years old and since 1952, it has been central for the nominations of almost all presidents. predicting the outcome of new hampshire and what these independent-minded voters will do, is about as safe as predicting the winner of the lottery. i tell you one thing we do know next tuesday, new hampshire will somehow shake up and shape the 2016 presidential race. and charlie, we are with three people who have combined over 150 years experience with this wonderful primary. they are joe mcquaid, who is the editor, the manchester union of leaders. still the largest newspaper in
the state. and they have endorsed chris christie in this primary. kathy sullivan, former co-chair of the democratic party and new hampshire with lots of roots in the state. and she isvi a hillary clinton supporter. and tim roth former -- >> let me ask you to start. what's to have the first primary here. >> why not. i think the real answer is the involvement, the involvement of people. we're going to have next tuesday, 70-75% vote. and these folks take this very seriously. it is not republic thing or democratic thing. it's probably our most prize possession. everything will spend the week between iowa and new hampshire
but the four years between this one and the next one studying the field, getting to know the field. it's one thing to show upxz the week before. six months ago they were running events in july and people are taking time out to go. it's a smart, involved, very engaged. >> kathy, the old line was are you going to vote for me next tuesday, i only met you three or four times. which is slightly an exan race. pick up what tom said. >> for me it's a small state and the candidates are forced to interact with the voters. once you leave new hampshire you go into a bubble. and if you become president, you live in a bubble. and so unfortunately, people don't, are not forced to interact with real every day voters the way they are in new hampshire. thing. if you're going to elect a leader, that leader should have to interact, talk to and learn from the voters. and we have to do that in new hampshire. >> any other state, where are you going to find one that
really represents america of the size where you can get around and meet people. a lot of time they talk about having regional primaries, rotating regional primaries in which case the dark horse under funded candidate would have no chance whatsoever. it would all be tv. it will be no retail politics. new hampshire gives them the chance. i used to say that new hampshire was the first place where the voters could meet the candidates. not the last place where you're going to get that physical contact. >> how different is it today than years ago. has the primary changed. >> the influence of media is much greater. i'll tell you one thing that's really changed is the predominance of polls. we never used to -- we're being told what the agenda is and usually the first ones to write on the blackboard now will say here's all these things. just this week people are saying
well because of what the polls say you're about to drop out. >> and they are often wrong. >> they are frequently wrong. >> joe, 1980 i remember ronald reagan was upset by george h.w. bush in iowa. i thought the girrer didn't have it and boy it changed over a couple days. >> that's right. george had to beat mo coming from iowa. the dynamics changed because reagan showed himself to be a vital guy and very few people still catch on to this but he0 copped a great line from a>h[sps microphone. >> he pulled it off. >> he did. he was strong and george bush sat on stage not knowing what to do. >> that was the last campaign
involving your predecessor william, the people would say infamous william lobe and he really had, he left a footprint shall we say in his campaign. >> i don't think his last because washington guess profiled him in the paper a week ago said endorsed a candidate seven years after he died. >> your)g paper is still conservative, still very conservative but it's different than it was. >> it is because we tonight have william lobe. he was a one of a kind force. he was from the year of hearst. he was with my dad was co-founder of the sunday new hampshire news by the way.
he was called by lobe on the front page a skunk. and then a skunk's skunk. my father upped the ante where he was a skunk skunk skunk in one headline. mccarthy wrote a book about that campaign and said they did it editorially but they were fair to him in the news columns even though he was the under dog. they covered his campaign.) and he appreciated it. >> one of you mentioned before the media's all over the place now. and it used to be not many reporters but some and up here there was the union leader. >> jack and others, marty monroe. year after year after year and cultivate sources and get on the ground. >> because of the unpredictability, just four years ago kathy, your candidate hillary clinton was first to be gone and she came in here.
the polls, we mentioned the polls showed obama winning by 10 or 11 and that's not unique. these voters are very independent minded aren't they. >> they really are. that was for me my private primary of all. >> because you won. >> actually my second was babbitt and we lost badly. but it was great and that was all hillary clinton. people had written her off but she went out there and worked every day going to retail events, going to town halls just displaying that great grasp of knowledge and the issues she has. and she put herself back in and said president obama, basically had him sitting, he wasn't going out and doing a lot of retail meeting with voters. but she was out there. and even up to the last day, she was out on the street near wwwr television to getip drive time
coverage and get nightly news. >> one of the reasons the polls are not as reliable. you have as many as 40% of the people going to vote next tuesday are independents and you have same day registration. i've heard story that independents choosing between donald trump and bernie sanders. >> there was a townhall with mike today and the woman in the front row asked a question and he said i see you at several of my town halls. he said i'll answer the question if you promise to vote for me. and she said well you're one of three. this is where the polling is wrong is everybody knows inprim. it's the election word today and they answer honestly but they
also reserve the right to change their mind. we've seen a couple times things change in a weekend. romney/mccain won and some place bush/mccain. it moved ten points the last weekend very quickly. and no poll is good enough to catch it because what is amazing to me, there are all these thousands and thousands of individual decisions they were all made the same way. that's really unique. that's because everybody's paid attention, everybody studied it. >> joe, let's talk just a little bit about the state. i think kind of the common image from new hampshire from those people who don't know it, almost not:b rural but they have, thiss a very fluent state. you've got pretty darn good economy compared to most places. i think just a little over 3% unemployment. a manufacturing state. that's different than the new hampshire we knew in the past isn't it. >> well the manufacturing has
changed from making uniforms for the civil war soldiers in the yard to making shoes and now bae and other high tech companies making incredible things. there's a guy named dean cayman who you might know who is an inventor who owns a lot of mill yard space comes up with pumps and robotic arms for veterans. it's incredible. i don't know all about this. we had a story last weekr< in e sunday news about the new hampshire electorate and about how much is new since just four years ago. new hampshire has long been a place where the native were in the minority. now it's an incredible minority. people move here and then the kids move away and other people come in. so those undecided voters, i pity the people with candidates trying to figure out who you're going to target. how you're going to target and how you're going to get them
off. >> let me ask you about the economy. because you look at the data and it's really good three one. is there a feeling it's good. >> no. because a lot of the jobs are not the old manufacturing jobs which paid well and you could get by with a high school education. i think trump and --7u i think even hillary and bernie are saying it's not what it should be. that the pay level is not the way. and they all have radically different solutions to the problem. >> we don't want to talk about the outcome next tuesday. but trump would not appear to be a natural new hampshire candidate. what's his appeal. >> he's accurate. part of it, there's a nervousness at some level in the electorate and he brings out that anger. but last night he was in milford, the first return since iowa. and the local television station did a big coverage of them and
they talked to a voter who was still committed to him. he put his name joe so and so from westminster, mass. i'm not certain all those people you see at those rallies are new hampshire. >> they are not by any the first time you came to vite the newspaper for an interview, i greeted him at the door as i do all the candidates. he was looking over my shoulder and i turned around and fully two thirds of my staff was standing there. and my son explained to this old guy, dad he's a celebrity tv star, he's a business brand and now he's a presidential candidate. he naturally attracts people the way p.t. barnum used to do. >> 10 of 11 presidential elections from 48-88 new hampshire voted in the general elections for the republicans. is the state now more of a blue state. >> it's purple. we elect democratic governor except we elected democratic
governor since 1976. our legislature has been democratic we're republican now. we're a purple state and continue to be a purple state for a long time. >> tell me who they think will win the democratic primary and kathy who do you think will win the republican primary. you have to pick on it ruth now. >> i'm going to go out a limb and i'm going to give the edge to>> oh my gosh, tom. >> i think it is significantly closer than the polling is. >> bernie. >> right. i continue to believe that hilly couldn't right. >> tom is right it's closer. in 2008 i thought hillary would beat obama up here because she's so strong with women who like it or not, they want a woman president. i think she will win by being close . my columnist here has set the expectations game for hillary and i think she's going to get a
win out of it if she comes within a couple of percentage point. >> listen. this has been wonderful. one thing we know is the eyes of the world will be on new hampshire next tuesday. i doubt you will disawe point and we'll look forward to being here four years from now, all three of you thank you so much. and we'll be back in just a minute. >> rose: some of history's greatest artists, writers and musicians have struggled with mental illness and bipolar illness. they include van gogh, and others. touched with fire is a new film that explores a connection even between manic depression and creativity. it tells the story of marco and carla two bipolar poets who fall in love in a psychiatric hospital. here is a look at the trailer.tm >> hey, are you okay. >> yes. >> do you know it's going to rain. >> you called me -- >> my mind moves in tune with
leadership. >> what's going on. >> down to the minute. the full moon lit. >> going up in flames. >> what happened to the apartment. >> i'm trying to figure out who i am. >> i found myself involuntarily last night. >> you can't keep me here. >> it's a hospital are. >> i'm not sick. i can understand why you'd be here, you look very sick to me. life in your face. >> two>> i go by my poet's name. >> they are all crazy. do you know who said that. >> we're not from here. >> these crazy connections between frontal. >> is it true that neither of
you think you're from this planet. >> you're not healthy for one another. >> i don't think it's such a bad thing to feel like the deepest emotion. >> you can trust me right now. >> vanity is love. >> i'm not willing to make any sacrifice. >> are we a mistake carla, are we a mistake.>> the brighter the race through the gate. >> rose: joining me the right and director paul dalio.
luke kirby who stars as psycho and psychologist dr. kay jamison whose book inspired the film. i'm pleased to have all of them here at this table. i think we should begin talking about you, you know, and how alv of this led to this. >> when you get diagnosed, you go from experiencing what you're certain is some kind of divine illumination. and then sometime in it you're thrown into a hospital, you're pumped full of drugs come down 60 pounds overweight and completely disoriented and they tell you no there was nothing divine, nothing illuminating, just have triggered a life long genetic illness which will swing you from sigh chaotic highs to suicidal lows and you'll become a suicidistic unless you take the medication which makes you feel no emotions. if you realize missing feeling sad it's the only thing worse
than pain. so it's very lard to comprehend. you're kind of after a lifetime of building your identity withi1 your place in humanity. to suddenly be told you are defective humanity. and to know you're not going to be the person you used to be. and that you will at best be able to get by. it's life shattering. and the only labels you have to choose from are some form of a disorder. manic depression, bipolar disorder. and so you scrape through every clinical book trying to look for answers. and that's exactly what i did. i was going through these clinical books which were all these diagnostic medical texts where i felt like i was under a microscope with someone in a lab coat judging me. and i come across herok book and
touched with fire. it was this beautiful artistic book that talks about the gifts that come with it, the correlation between artistic creativity and bipolar. it was the clinical, it was written like poetry. it was illustrated like a painting and blazed through all the clinical printed ink rigidly scripted in these books, in these clinical books. this label for the first time was something redeeming and i could be proud to be. it's like okay i'll be touched with fire, i can go with that. and it was a completely rebirth of who i was and who i saw myself. but at the same time, it led to a journey between romanticizing it and experiencing the beauty to the point of my own destruction. and unable to let go of it and being overmedicated in efforts to try to keep my life stable
but which was basically a waiting room for death. i remember not being able to cry when my aunt died who i love because i couldn't feel it. and it was just i was like i can't do this. so the film really came about as this love story between these two characters who bring out in each other all the beauty and the horror of their condition. and you know, the love story and the love gets more and more intense the further they go into their relationship until at some point it burns too bright to sustain and theyñt have to find some reconciliation between them. >> rose: where are you today. >> today i'm where i never thought i would be but i'm where kay told me i would be. i remember when i met kay, she told me it was just after my doctor was telling me you'll be able to be happy, you'll be able to be happy on the medication. can you introduce me to one person who you know, who is
stable, who is medicated. if you do, i'll be very hopeful and i'll actually fight for it. but until then i just feel like i'm getting by. couldn't produce one person but he was friends with kay so he introduced me to kay. and she told me and i remember i was just reading the book exuberance which she wrote. and that book captured exuberance so vividly and i'm thinking how could this person bipolar on meds actually write about exuberance like this. i asked her about itsaid i willt again. she also said something that really was illuminating for me which is that just about every artist she knows is more creative after bipolar than before bipolar as long as they're on the meds. togñi me that was like okay, i didn't go through this hell for nothing. i can have the gift but i don't have to kill myself for it, you know. there is a way and it took years but now i genuinely feel more
emotion before bipolar and i fal more emotion than when i was manic because e motion is tied to life and a child and things that sustain, things that matter. and i'm much more creative than i ever was when i was manic before i was bipolar to the point where i can honestly say where i was offered a cure i couldn't take it because i do consider it that much of a gift. >> rose: the decision to make a film. >> that was mostly the stigma. mostly living and seeing people look at me and seeing people look at people like me and just not knowing what's in our hearts, know. and i was always inspired by vn gogh quote which says, you know people look at me like a non-entity, like an eccentric but i would like to some day show through my work what an eccentric has in his heart. and you know, when you walk by a man homeless on the street gazing up at the sky with
bloodshot eyes and crazy smile, you might distance yourself. you might walk to the other side of the street. you might look away. but when you have seen the motion beloved in the sky through van gogh's window that he captured in that painting at the moma, if you could see what that homeless man was seeing you wouldn't look at him anymore. >> rose: tell me about the book. >> my introduction through it was just reading the script and i found the script incredibly raw. and it was hard to look at. but also not easy to look away from. and so whatever it was about that curiosity needed to be stated and once i met paul sort of just sat with him and saw that it was his own rawness that i had, you know, seen in the script.i know when i was kind od
into having to be a bit of a torch bearer for his story. >> rose: what do you want to come away from the film? an understanding? >> an appreciation of the beauty of it. which can allow the people who have it to be proud of it and to be open about it. which can allow the future of 38% of pulitzer prize winning public which is the statistic. >> rose: what percentage. >> 30% of pulitzer prize winning poets are said to be bipolar. when you think of that given to the award with the biggest contribution of a spiritthink yr and there's all there is to it and to live in a society where these people hide back in the shadows instead of being
embraced to the point where they feel like they can come out and shine. and make more contributions to the human spirit. >> rose: these are some of the artists. the film is dedicated to bipolar artists. emily dickson, william plate, t.s.ñúpound, shelly and goes ond on. dillon thomas, william faulkner, f.4çó scott fitzgerald, earnest hemingway -- goes on and on,
paul gaugin. it goes on and on. tell me what is between bipolar and creativity. >> what's very interesting is actually some of those people had probably just depression alone. >> rose: most of them had bipolar. >> yes. one of the ongoing controversies in psychiatry is what's the relationship of very owe current depression to bipolar and it turns out they are pretty closely tied. there was one which is temperament. there's a certain boldness, risk taking certain high energy high voltage capacity for people often who have bipolar. if you look at the studies, what's been striking is the validity of thought or the raw piddity of thought. when people get manic, their thinking speeds up and they have more and more associations and more and more unusual associations. now if you speed somebody up who is not already creative, you're just somebody who is speeded up
and not creative. if you have someone who is already creative and you give them this kind of high energy state, very determined to do something, very absolutely going after the highest goals and aspirations that often goes along with the temperament as well. if you ask artists and%ú writers what the contribution is, the terror of it, they will say if that range of experience from estacy, that kind of communal sense with the universe and experiencing these high states. and also the compassion that they feel from having gone through the horror of psychosis and depression. >> rose: let me take a look at this. this is the first clip. this is katie played by kathy holmes and marco played by luke talking about relationship with their parents in the film. here it is. >> because we both share it, we're the only one that can relate to each other.
beautiful. >> well i understand that. >> excuse me, you understand that. remember the doctors told us. >> i mean let's face it. you know, if they sign up for a dating website and they put down mentally ill, it'sl not like they're going to attract a whole lot of people saying oh that's my soul mate, right? maybe this is a chance for them to have a real relationship, you know. if they stay on the medication, quite frankly i've got no problem with that. >> that's the whole issue, right. >> mom, can you just listen to him. >> okay, well. >> marco, listen, you know that it's going to take time to find the right dosage, right. even the doctor, the doctor has said that eventually you are going to feel a wide range of normal emotions. >> how does he know. he's not taking the meds. >> the doctor does not take the meds you know that. >> then i can't just trust him. i don't think it's such a bad
thing to feel life with the deepest emotion. i don't think that's a/- proble. >> it's an illness. >> well maybe for you because maybe you have a low emotional capacity and for you it makes you feel ill. >> wait a minute, i don't have a low emotional capacity. >> okay, i'm sorry. >> fine. >> rose: is the med or is it there. >> there's a slew of medication out there now still within the gold standard but there are other medications and a lot of people need to take several. >> rose: back to the argument about does it somehow have a, does it have impact and are there consequences of taking the meds? >> sure, there are absolutely consequences. you would be less honest and you would lose your credibility immediately as a clinician if you said otherwise. it effects energy and sleep and mood and all those things that make us human.
but it's also true that illness is very destructive to the brain and you know from your brain series if you take scans of people with one manic episode versus many episodes, it's a progressive illness. nobody's going to be creative ten years down the pike if they are unstable and poor restraints, in the hospital or dead. >> rose: because they think they will somehow depress their creativity. >> i say that's completely legitimate question. i would be concerned too.t the studies that we have indicate that actually people are more productive and more creative aftery been taking medication. but one of the things we know now people will be kept at much lower levels of medication and that psychotherapy is often very effective in conjunction with
medication and that can allow sometimes to gauge and get your medication a little bit lower. but there's no evidence at all that you're going to be able to survive bipolar illness if you aren't being treated. >> rose: luke was simply reading touched by fire and knowing and having many vúneeded to prepare for this. >> probably. maybe a little bit of life experience as well. but mostly it was that. i mean mostly it was me and paul wanting circles around each other, around the city. and slowly coming to an understanding and sort of finding a way. >> rose: understanding for you to understand him. >> to understand him and then to release the reins and try to bill on that understanding and have it manifest physically and emotionally at work. >> rose: if somehow we could
identify the genes for bipolar and do something about them, whether it's edit or whatever it might be, would you be in favor with that. >> i would certainly be in gave of getting the genes for more accurate and earlier diagnose so that people don't suffer from it and people get more accurately treated. and earlier on. in terms of developing much more specific medications and treatments, absolutely. the editing is something else again because if you're talking about getting rid of this germ line absolutely not. i think the complexity of an illness that's treatable that's early age onset that's related very much to high energy risk taking creativity is not something you really want to get to messing around with. i mean i think for a good cause scientists have put a hold on
this kind of work. >> rose: i should also mention the film opens in europe and l.a. on february 12th, nationwide on february 19th. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
this is "nightly business report" with tyler mathisen and sue herera. suddenly silent. the man known for hiking the price of a life-saving medicine refused to answer questions under oat. can congress realistically do anything to curb drug price hikes? dividends slashed. conoco phillips becomes the first fler gy company to slice its payouts. will others follow? open for business. economic sanctions may be lifted but western companies still face big obstacles trying to do business in iran. all that and more tonight on "nightly business report" for thursday, february 4th. >> good evening and welcome. high drama on capitol hill. it involved grinning, mugging for the cameras, insulting tweets.