tv Washington Week With Gwen Ifill PBS February 12, 2016 7:30pm-8:01pm PST
>> we are here in post-debate milwaukee, to take you inside latest topsy-turvy political dramas. the big winners and the surprising losers. this "washington week" election special. hillary clinton, recovering from a big new hampshire defeat, strikes back. a single issue issue. and i do not believe we live in single-issue country. >> and bernie sanders, poised to giant, shows he won't back down. >> you're not in the white house yet. as the democrats spar, the republican field narrows, as the remaining candidates launch ahead. >> the last thing we need is another bush. you.i can tell that i can tell you. >> i did not do well on saturday this. so listen to that will never happen again!
>> the only way to beat donald is to highlight the simple truth of his record. >> the light overcame the darkness of negative campaigning! >> on to nevada. on to south carolina. a fight for survival. we'll get in-depth analysis from the reporters covering the 2016 race, next. >> from milwaukee, wisconsin, election 2016ial edition of "washington week," ifill.en corporate funding for "washington week" is provided by... >> today people are coming out to the nation's capital to an important cause that could change the way you live for years to come. how can you help? by giving a little more. to yourself. >> i'm investing in my future. sometimes forget to help themselves. >> the cause is retirement. today, thousands of people came retirement, and pledged to safe an additional 1%
of their income. all do that, we can all win. >> prudential. >> additional funding is provided by... boeing. newman's own foundation. froming all profits newman's own products to charity and nourishing the common good. foundation. working with visionaries on the changeines of social worldwide. journalismnce in foundation. investing in the future of journalism with grants for reporting,ve professional development and education. the corporation for public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs from viewers like you. thank you! from the concert hall on the campus of the wisconsin,of milwaukee, moderator, gwen
ifill. >> hello, milwaukee! we're here on the very stage where hillary clinton and bernie just lastced off night. i was sitting only a few feet away, and i felt the heat! [laughter] of criticism that we have heard from senator sanders about our president, i expect from republicans. i do not expect from someone running for the democratic succeed president obama. [cheering] is -- madam secretary, that is a low blow. know what? last i heard, we lived in a democratic society. heard, a united states senator had the right to president,th the including a president who has done such an extraordinary job. voiced criticism. you're right. maybe you haven't. >> well, the candidates sparred over domestic policy, foreign
policy, and each other. at stake this time, dan. >> well, there was a lot at stake, particularly because we of a new hampshire race in which senator sanders didn't just beat hillary clinton, he clinton.hillary everybody knew he had an advantage in that state, and the clinton campaign had talked fact that new hampshire's voters are neighboringoward state senators or good afternoons. but -- or governs. was one of the biggest we've seen in the primaries. it was a real blow to her. momentum.m a sense of you could see what she was trying to do on the debate stage last night, which was to sort of push back, slow him down, undermine him, raise doubts about him. >> amy, who came to play? >> well, clearly they both did. in fact, i was most taken by sanders's "come to play" niche. is that a term? >> good. >> just made it up. but his aggressiveness to me was knewhing new, which was he he was going to come and try to
put him on his heels, go after the fact that he doesn't have a lot about pie in the sky and not a lot about policy. hisyet he was able to get open jabs in there -- his own jabs in there too. letlearly wasn't going to her put him on the defensive the entire time. for the first time, i felt like now is a candidate who actually wants to win this nomination. for so many of these early debates, it felt as if he wanted to get his message across and that would be a success to him. it feel to you like bernie sanders actually prepped for this debate as to previous debates, like he spent time trying to history,is middle east for instance? >> he did. more than her, he -- he would the sumstraight into speech. on the substance -- hazard of the business. >> it was a competition over who claim the mantel of obama's legacy. they were both almost equally
attacking each other. it the way they were doing was very different. hillary clinton was very level, very even, sort of dropping memorized one'd him. from some of the clips we just showed, bernie sanders was responding with sarcasm and condescension. it will be interesting to see how it plays out, going forward. he has someone who has always on the outside, hurling rocks in. as he becomes more and more credible to become the going to have to figure out whether he needs to shift that style. i don't know whether the torican public will respond that in their presidential -- democratic presidential but it's or not, definitely a departure from what we're used to. >> it was very interesting to watch the kind of change. leading up to the debate, a lot of the reporting was she's in, going to attack him on gun control. the clinton campaign had wereraphed that they coming in with their fists up. but it wasn't quite the way it played out. think that's because the week before, in new hampshire,
that clearly didn't serve her well. boiling pretty hot in the new hampshire debate. both of them were. what they're concerned about now, or one of the many things they're concerned about, her likability, her trust, her other things. i think she came in with a smarter approach this time. able toink she was conduct as much business here on this stage. if you think about all the she was able to impart, i think it was actually more successful. but i was struck by how intently was on president obama. i mean, this was -- it's like, hello, south carolina. please listen. i hope you're paying attention. and boy, that has changed since the sort of the end of last on.er, early she did not intend to sort of this nominating fight hugging the president so intently. some democrats believe that issue in the general election. but she has to get there first. question.w an open >> but is it part of the idea of
embracing the president that obama coalition out there to be had, the way he was able to win south carolina, the way he was able to win nevada, the way he was able to push her away, after she won surprisingly won new hampshire. that it means she can duplicate that. it work? >> well, i think the issue for her is that the obama coalition -- iowa. won he won new hampshire. i got them backwards. go ahead. that wasama coalition so successful in 2008 and 2012 was a combination of energized and energized minority voters. and right now, bernie sanders energized young voters. so as she looks at how she wins havenomination, she has to strong support in the african-american community and in the latino community. the embrace of president obama. interestingly enough, at the end of that debate, she inserted that. it wasn't as though you had invited her to make that argument. that. wanted >> she wanted that.
she wanted that issue out on the table. and we know why. think there's something else about just the democratic d.n.a. democrats like troublemakers. they don't like going with the establishment person who lost time. hillary is trying to upset that. she has to make the case that she can claim some of that energy. he's doing it with a sort of complicated two-step argument. she's saying president obama is change we still want. i am that change. bernie sanders is something different, whereas, bernie is saying i'm basically the exciting, fun guy you had in 2008. they're both making claims. but if she just runs as the going to be passed the crown, i think the real reticence among democrats, it's their nature to go with that kind of camp. >> that's what is interesting too about this, because i came this primary thinking that bernie sanders was going to of these insurgent rock throwers. very started off doing
well among white liberal voters, highly educated. he expanded it, to younger people and minorities. but where bernie sanders is support isthe most among downscale blue collar were with hillary clinton in 2008. he's not just the idealistic saver. he's -- savior. he's now cutting into the more traditional democratic coalition. the one thing she does have going for her is still minority as traditional democrats, the people that identify themselves as democrats, the people that can close primaries. independents can't vote in a lot of these states. >> a little cleanup she had to do was with women voters, after new hampshire result, which showed that more women voted for bernie than for her. why i asked senator sanders the question about whether he was prepared to because itory, wondered whether he would then what- well, i didn't know he would say.
he didn't exactly get to that. >> he didn't. a historicwould be figure as well. he didn't say why or how. be the't say he would first jewish president but he did say he would be an outsider. think your point of women voters is so important. talk about the obama coalition. many struck by so new hampshire voters i ran into, who said i supported her in 2008 from the beginning. started doing it this time, but in the summer or so, i decided that, you know, maybe win.e sanders could that's what the sanders campaign is really hoping for. that's what they were hoping audience last night -- there's some people out there who may have lingering doubts about her. will they give him a second look? people are viewing him in a different light now. trying togoing to be shine more scrutiny on him, of course. and that's what we don't know if toll be able to stand up that. we know she can. she's been through everything and back. first the telle you what. one of the things i found ourresting, judy and i and team were trying to develop questions on foreign policy,
part of the challenge was not position wherea he was automatically going to look bad, because that's one of himgoals, which is to make look inexperienced. so we worked really hard to try to give him an opportunity to do that. were rewarded with a trip through -- >> ha ha! >> eastern history, i believe. ha! which there was some debate that went on with that. balancehe win or did he out -- what he's been saying is, it's not about experience. it's about judgment. he manage to balance that out last night? >> i think what i was struck by has anary clinton advantage, as you say, on this issue. she showb able to -- should be that.o parlay >> and she said she was four years the secretary of state. of course. that was my bernie, by the way. very bad! >> that was pretty good. um... [laughter] >> when you listen to her go through the answer to your question, what i find is it's -- it misses sort of a central message or there's really like no there-there, that she gets really caught up in sort of the weeds of it, that she can talk
to you about names and policies thane know she is smarter anybody else on this. >> right. >> but she can't ever deliver it about me and my foreign policy? what is the central core of it? i think helpst bernie sanders a little bit in that it's not as direct. basic things the we're seeing play out. he has a very simple message.orward and it resonates. it resonates with a lot of people, even if they are her.rting what she has to do is chip away at that. and we saw it last night. chip away at experience. if you look at the exit polls from the first two states, anybody who thinks experience or electability are the real goingant issues is overwhelmingly for her. and nobody who thinks and inrthiness, honesty a sense compassion for the little guy is going him.helmingly for that's the fight that's going to play out. >> let's talk about the future. up.ave nevada coming south carolina coming up.
you guys are probably on your way to both of those locations. it that we saw last night which pre-sages what to expect on the ground, jeff? nevada, i mean, first and foremost, this electorate is considerably more diverse. some 20% of the electorate is going to be hispanic. in 2008 of the south carolina electorate was african-american. electorate.fferent but the sanders campaign beliefs aty have a decent shot nevada. they have flown in a ton of people. this,ing fueling all of and the reason that sanders should be taken seriously, is the money she's raised. has -- he has raised. it has blown all expectations. even the sanders people are stunned by it. they are raising so much money. oft means they can put a lot boots on the ground. they have 150 organizers in nevada, which is more than obama had in '08. they think they can make win in nevada. south carolina, i think, is
still a little more difficult. there is no recent polling. pre-iowa.olling is so, you know, things might change there. but after that, it's off to the races. i mean, march is an incredibly weeks or so. three >> and it's notable too that the clinton campaign has been lot.laying nevada a and saying, well, you know, maybe it's not as diverse as some people expect it to be. it might be a little less so. and so you can see them really shifting the focus to south carolina. >> but they are not playing down south carolina. up every single endorsement, both sides, of any african-american who happens to wonder through. [laughter] >> and on stage, last time you they keptg about it, saying, i agree completely with everything you say, i just mean it more. it wasn't clear that i was actually talking about race at that point. it. would pivot to >> one of the things we're going to find out in the next few weeks is you had the whole madeleine albright thing in
new hampshire. she said, if you're a woman, you have to vote for the woman. was rejected, because i think there's just a sense, especially among younger kind of oldhat that school identity politics does not -- should not decide how they go. hillary backed off of that yesterday. and the economic issues, new hampshire, especially with the young, are more important. so bernie is offering them free college and higher minimum wage and they're going with that. the interesting thing will be to see in nevada, and south thelina, whether african-american, hispanic community does something similar. historical patterns would say a long tie to the clinton family. there's allegiance there, support. it may be that the way people think about these things has been changing. the interesting things we saw tw develop in the wake of voting -- we're so excited to have voters voting -- ha ha! one of the interesting things the republican party move farther to the right, the democratic party become far more liberal, and the victories
of that so far on the republican side are donald trump and ted cruz. let's listen to what they had to say this week. >> we're going to take care of the economy. we're gonna take care of jobs. we're gonna take care of all of ourthings that i said, border, everything! health care. it's going to be so great. >> and the great thing about iowa and new hampshire is it's narrowed the field, given south carolina a clear choice. >> now, here's the interesting thing. sideve seen trump on one and sanders on one side appeal to a lot of the same voters in some ways. appealing to're the same concerns and the same frustration. i'm not sure there is that much overlap. you can find voters who will say, well, i'm -- you know, i like what bernie sanders has to say, but i'm really for trump. but there are a lot of trump voters who also say bernie socialist and i would never vote for him. but that sense of grievance is into, andboth tapped so effectively. again, if you think of donald it couldn't be, more straightforward.
he says it over and over again. of the it on the night election in new hampshire. he comes out and he says, we are going to make america great again. you know, end of message. and that is something that grabbed on to. and it has put him in a very strong position in that race.ican >> in fact, the thing that's almost more surprising to me than the rise and durability of the vacuump has been on the anti-trump side. when you think about it, he's well.very he obviously won in new hampshire. he's ahead in south carolina. the expectation is he's going to carolina.th but he's winning, you know, with 30%. maybe he gets 25%. 32%. there's still a big chunk of republican primary voters who else,ting for somebody but they can't figure out who that somebody else they really want it to be. continues toote get split up and split up. and that is a concern of republicans who are not trump supporters, is that by the time they figure it out, it's going to be too late. somebodytalk about the else. michael, who would you say is
the somebody else to watch as we go forward? >> right now, you have, in south a number of the other states, with the polls we have, and i don't expect they'll much after new hampshire, something like 50%, 60% of the trump anded between cruz. so you have one lane there of the sort of anti-establishment, at washington, sort of burn it down, change it all vote, which is enormous in the republican party right now. how that sorts out, who wins, one and two in south carolina, i think is the question. but then you have the other 40%, now divided between all these other people, who are running much more traditional races and much more traditional lanes. and all saying -- we had marco week, not onlyis am i not getting out but maybe we should have a contested like maybe it would be okay if we took this all the way to the convention. of us who have been contestedpolitics conventions. >> that lane -- there's still republicans who say they don't want donald trump
as president. but they can't do anything if the voteividing between three people at 12%. >> it's pretty remarkable if you has alreadye field shrunk, just in a couple weeks. we know what's coming. don't know what exactly is going to fall by the wayside, someone will. always important that the calendar on the republican side is different than the democratic side, because it becomes winner take all. hangs on, he has a pocketed midwestern states good for him,very ohio, illinois, indiana. think he is someone who is fresher to the national scene. jeb bush has maybe one more up his sleeve, he hopes. but they have tried everything. newer product, i think. so i have my eye on him, to see otherwill emerge as the person. i don't know that he will, but he is maybe more of a shot. >> he certainly had a great week in new hampshire.
i think the challenge for him is to get to the state of michigan on march 8. we've got in between that, south carolina and nevada, a slew of on march 1. he's planted his flag in michigan, as the next place win. he feels he must but that's a lot of losses to absorb in the meantime. the question is whether he can hang on or whether marco can rehabilitate himself after that terrible debate last week or whether jeb bush has life at this point. >> was anybody surprised that chris christie gave a big punch to marco rubio and the only person who fell was chris christie? it be funny if chris christie's legacy is electing nominee?ump as the if rubio had done very well, had come in second there, bush and would have either been on their way out or out of the race at this point. a real hold ofad that establishment vote. >> and yet -- >> and now we don't even know he stands. >> that's the person i'm watching actually, is ted cruz,
because this is the same -- when narrowing, if he loses in south carolina, again a state that is pitch perfect for heavily evangelical. this is a state that looks similar to iowa, where he won. in second to trump? what does that say about his durability going forward? he has said, where i do well is in the early part of the calendar. i'm going to go from south to these march 1 dates which are southern evangelical. if he no longer looks like the front-runner in that category, that's going to be difficult for him. how people are changing their interpretation of the calendar from contest to contest. do we think this is a vs. head election? which is winning? >> i think the heart is winning, so far, at least in the early states. but important to remember that and new hampshire voted. but i think that -- i mean, on certainly the and heart is winning. you find people, they liked
fine.y clinton just she actually has pretty high favorables among democrats. in mind. to keep but they like the idea of him, you know. and i think the heart at this point seems bigger. >> and -- >> final thought. >> yes. both hillary clinton and the non-trump republicans are hoping that as process, thatis the head becomes much more important, as you start to these people standing up as president of the united states, and that is what traditionally happens, that electability becomes more important than ideology. course, nothing traditional has happened this year. thank you all very much! you to our host here at the university of wisconsin-milwaukee and to our public television partners at milwaukee public television. we'll turn to our audience here for their questions and our answers on the "washington week" extra, wisconsin edition. find that later tonight
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welcome to kqed newsroom. coming up on our program, meet the director of the oscar-nominated film "inside out." plus, a troubling underground existence on the mexican border. first, governor jerry brown talks to us about criminal justice reform and where he stands on questions of crime and punishment. this is brown's fourth term as governor. during his first tenure almost 40 years ago he signed a tough on crime bill that he calls an abysmal failure. >> prison is torture. while he's there you can give him training, teach him how to read, write, fix cars, maybe get some skills but it is a very coercive element. when you introduce