tv Charlie Rose The Week PBS May 19, 2017 11:30pm-12:01am PDT
>> rose: welcome to the program. i'm charlie rose. the program is "charlie rose: the week." just ahead, president trump heads overseas. a special counsel is appointed to lead the russia investigation. and the unlikely musical about teenage anxiety and acceptance that's been nominate for nine tony awards. it's called "dear evan hanson." ♪ you and me that's all we needed to be ♪ and the rest of the world falls away ♪ and the rest of the world falls away ♪ >> rose: we will have those stories and more on what happened and what might happen. >> rose: funding for "charlie
rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications >> rose: so you began how? >> connecting to other people. >> rose: is it luck at all or something else? >> better security cooperation. >> rose: what's the object lesson here? >> good reporting, accurate reporting. >> rose: tell me the significance of the moment. >> rose: this was the week a special counsel was appointed to head the investigation of russian interference in the last election. the white house came under fire for sharing classified intelligence with the russians, and the great, great shortstop derek jeter had his famous number 2 number retired by the new york yankees. here are the sights and sounds of the past seven days. >> roger ailes, one of the founders of the fox news channel, has died. >> sad news for rock lovers around the world. chris cornell died overnight.
>> rose: north korea tests another missile. >> it's not just us against them anymore. now you're going to see the entire international community isolate north korea. >> a deadly accident in new york's times square. >> violent clashes broke out in greece as thousands took to the streets to protest new austerity measures. >> rose: james comey's memo. >> to urge him to drop the investigation of michael flynn. enough is enough. >> if the evidence pears out there was obstruction of justice, i think you will likely see congress go down the road of impeachment. >> the stars reported is false. i was in the room. it department happen. >> rose: the yankees say farewell to the captain. >> just a kid from kalamazoo, michigan, who turned himself into a legend in new york city. >> the entire thing has been a witch-hunt, and there is no collusion between certainly myself and my campaign. >> if you hack me at work and now i couldn't work i'd be like, yeah. >> this weekend, we had the mother of all cyberattacks. >> in some cases, extreme cases,
people were forced to have actual face-to-face conversations. >> normally, kids in bounce houses can barely contan their joy. but this little guy maybe has more grown-up things to think about. >> trump told comey repeatedly to let it go ♪ thereto go ♪ >> look at the way i've been treated lately. no politician in history has been treated worse or more unfairly. ♪ you'll never see me cry >> rose: president trump is heading overseas on a nine-day trip to five countries and three summit meetings. it begins in saudi arabia, where the president will deliver a speech about islam and radical ideology. from there, he goes to israel, vatican city, belgium, and then back to italy. it is the first foreign trip of his presidency, and administration officials are portraying it as a chance for
america to reengage globally. it's also a chance for president trump to get away from mounting controversies at home. for more, we turn to ian bremmer, president of eurasia group, and michael hanna, a senior fellow at the century foundation. >> they're going to treat him very well and do their very best to focus on the issues on hand, whether it's about better security cooperation or major arms deals or showing that we're just good partners and good allies. they'll help to make trump look more presidential. i think that if trump can come away with not just those trips but the whole nine days looking like he's actually engaging in foreign policy as the president of the united states, the trappings, the context will actually be much more of a win than anything he could be accomplishing back in the united states. >> rose: more than the saudi government, he's also going to see there a lot of leaders from islam countries, from muslim countries. he'll make the speech about islam. is it a chance for him to try to make amends for what many people
saw as a kind of anti-muslim, both policy and campaign rhetoric? >> well, to a degree. i mean, the thing to remember is that for the saudi leadership and the egyptians, the emirates, the thing that really matters is, you know, convergence on their key priorities. so, you know, the issues about islam that came up during the campaign, that's not really high on their -- >> they care about iran. >> they care about iran. >> rose: what can we get from them? >> aside from the fact that they're a stalwart ally, there's not a hell of a lot of saudis have to offer the united states. the big -- >> how about boots on the ground in syria? not going to happen? >> not going to happen. i mean, the saudis are up to their eyeballs in a failing war in yemen right now, and they're trying to extricate themselves and they can't, and it's true of the gulf allies, the aedes and others as well. i think part of the problem here is trump is starting with countries that tactically want to work with him, but long term the future of american interest
is not in the middle east, right? america first is about doing less, extricating yourself from failed washz over a long period of time. thithis is the discussion in the administrations too what kind of policy you're going to have. the future is china. the future is asia, perhaps the transatlantic. >> rose: one of the things they had against president obama was they didn't believe in the iran nuclear deal. is there any way, because the israelis and saudis are on the same side on crucial issues, whether iran or what else it might be-- that somehow these countries may come out of this with some additional motivation to do something about the israelis and the palestinians? >> you know, i think for the saudi perspective, they would clearly want something to do
done. i think nobody is under any illusions now that this is solvable. it's true that israel-palestine isn't the center of gravity in the region. people have much greater concerns, but it still matters, and it places real elements on what any of these, even autocratic leaders cdo, particularly in public. >> rose: the investigation of ties between russia and the trump campaign picked up new urgence theweek. robert mueller is a former director of the f.b.i. on wednesday, he was named special counsel. he served in both democratic and republican administrations. john carlin is a lawyer in private practice. before that he served as assertant attorney general for national security and chief of staff to robert mueller during his time at the f.b.i. i am pleased to have him on this program. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: so, he is handling the justice department's investigation? >> he's acting as a prosecutor, handling the justice department's investigation. >> rose: and he'll have available to him all the
information the f.b.i. had and anyone else. >> i would expect in this case that he would continue to work with the f.b.i. as the investigators. he'd get information from any other government agency as relevant. he'd have the ability to convene and use a grand jury to issue process, to find information, to follow up on investigative leads, to seek things like search warrants, to do interviews. >> rose: we will have, therefore, a lot of investigations going on. senate intelligence committee, house intelligence commit, justice department, and what else? >> and it's important to think about for this investigation what it is and what it isn't. because one thing about bob mueller as director, as prosecutor throughout his career, if you give him a mission, he'll do it to the best of his aibtd, because butt he's also not going to go outside the lines of that mission. so i would not expect at the end of the day him to do anything that's not prescribed by this regulation, which calls for-- i do think there will be a report at the end of the day, but the report is going to focus around
whether or not to bring criminal charges. if there are criminal charges, don't expect him to be talking about anything that's outside the four corners of that criminal complaint or indictment. >> rose: lindsey graham, the senator from south carolina, said this after meeting with rod rosenstein, the department attorney general said, "this now seems to be a criminal not a counter-intelligence investigation." do you agree with that? >> we'll see. there is a broad-ranging counter-intelligence investigation, and rightly so. because it's important not to lose sight of the fact that a foreign power tried to undermine our electoral system. they attacked democracy. not one party or another, democracy. and it's very consistent with what russia has been doing now for years in europe. we saw them do it before they attacked our democracy and we've seen them do it afterwards in terms of attacking french elections. that's the threat that's looming throughout and that counter-intelligence
investigation needs to proceed. and we also need to think about that as a policy going forward-- how do we protect ourselveses if they try to do that again? that's not bob mueller's mission. his mission is, as special counsel, to determine whether or not crimes have been committed. >> rose: trump is leaving washington at the end of another tumultuous week, from the appointment of a special counsel to closed door hearings in congress, the russian scandal has derailed business as usual. joining me now from washington is mike allen. he is a cofounder of axeios and the editor of the axeios a.m. newsletter. let me begin with the quote from you-- "russia is the swamp, and the swamp is winning." that sounds nice. what does it mean? >>--t means president trump is paying a tremendous opportunity cost for all the swirl and
conversation about russia, that bandwidth and time of his staff, political capital on the hill, the patience of the markets-- all of those were tested this week in this 10-day period, we had the firing of director comey, which set off a cascade of events that the white house didn't at all amount. they will admit to you, charlie, they completely misjudged the reaction to that. >> rose: but looking back at this week, i mean, how do we measure the comey memorandums, the things that he wrote about a president of the united states asking him to go lightly or whatever the expression was on the national security adviser nominee of the president? >> comey's revenge. no question about it, charlie. this was another misjudgment. it sounds like the president really thought that jim comey either of his friend or was in his corner or was friendly. and none of that turned out to be true. it turns out now that the f.b.i. director was suspicious from the
beginning. >> rose: mike, just before we go, let me just ask you this. i was just handed this. this is a "new york times" breaking news. it says, headline, "trump told russians that firing nut job comey eased pressure from investigation." written by matt apuzo, maggie haberman, and matthew rosenberg, may 19, 2017. president trump told russian officials in the o. office this month firing the f.b.i. director james comey had relieved great pressure on him, according to a document, summarizing the meeting. a dowrnlgt a white house document, summarizing the meeting. "i just fired the head of the f.b.i., he was crazy, a real nut job." according to a document read to "the new york times" by an american official. "i faced great pressure because of russia. that's taken off." what do you say to that? >> well, i say three things. one, the president is seeing the price of antagonizing the national security establishment,
intelligence. this is part of a gusher of leaks that is going to come out. it's sounusual, so shocking for something like this to be leaked by an american official about their president. second, it's a reminder that the president forgets the difference between campaigning and governing. a conversation like that is not going to stay private in this environment. and, third, why are you irritating james comey? he should want to make nice with comey or just be quiet because anything he says not only will maybe cause jim comey to be defensive and want to put out more of his documentation that he clearly has, but also, any comment like this is going to make people more likely, even allies, to question the president's motives. >> rose: there was also trouble for the trump administration overseas this
week. on sunday, north korea conducted its seventh missile test this year. analysts are describing it as pyongyang's most successful launch yet. the missile was reportedly large enough to eventually carry a nuclear warhead. what should the united states do? ben rhodes rhodes served as the national security adviser for president obama, david sanger is the national security correspondent for "the new york times." >> they're doing a series of tests that are going high up into space. this one went 2,000 kilometers, 1400 miles. and then it's doing a very sharp prabula and coming down. it landed only 400 or so miles from the north korean coast. so that replicates the re-entry of an i.c.b.m.. so they're putting together the component pieces of what it would take to demonstrate that they could send a missile much further without actually prompting that kind of military response. >> rose: ben rhodes, how concerned should we be? >> well, i think we should be very concerned, charlie. as you said, with each test they get better at this technology.
and, of course, the principal threat to the united states, beyond our allies south korea and japan, is if they can miniaturize a nuclear war head and fut on an i.c.b.m. that can reach the united states. we have a steady escalation theft and it's not clear what we can do to responsible spnd to it. >> rose: what what was the obama administration's strategy? >> well, charlie, i think the diplomatic play you want is to get china's attention through the deployment of this missile defense system, and then negotiate some type of freeze in the north korean program so they're not advancing the nuclear program, they're not advancing their missile capability. i think we have to find a way to have a "pause" button on this program. >> rose: david, tell me where you think the trump strategy is? >> well, i don't think right now the trump strategy is all that different from president obama's strategy or president bush's before that. and always there has been this reliance on the chinese, as has been indicated, to put more pressure on. the difficulty is the chinese
have their limits. and they've got two major limits. the fers one is they don't want to put on so much pressure that it could trigger a north draen collapse that would result in south korea. the second is the chinese are interested in knowing what is the end state of north korea when you're all done with this process? because the north koreans at this point are pretty well convinced that they'd be crazy to give up their nuclear weapons program. while a freeze, as ben described, would certainly keep the problem from getting worse talso would freeze into place an existing considerably sized nuclear arsenal. and you have to ask yourselflet question "are you willing to live with that arsenal if you don't get to the denuclearization that ben described?" ♪ ♪ >> rose: "rolling stone" is celebrating its 50th
anniversary this year. the chronicle of rock 'n' roll was founded in 1967 by 21-year-old music fan named winner. it became a destination for leading talent of the day, attracting the light likes of annie leibowitz. thompson said, "i was given the room and the rank to kick ass, and very few places would give you that. i spoke with them earlier this week. what is the heart and soul of "rolling stone" today? >> i think it's not so different from what the heart and soul of "rolling stone" when it was founded was. i think it's about embracing a world view that was told through rock 'n' roll music. and all the things that come along -- >> is the world view a companion to rock 'n' roll or is it a view that comes from rock 'n' roll? >> i think it's a view-- both, really.
i think rock 'n' roll promoted the view. i think it was about freedom and independence and stepping to the establishment. and, obviously, a lot has changed in the last 50 years, and we've changed quite a bit in the last 50 years. but i think that at our core is the music and what it means and represents to young people. >> rose: how have you changed over the lifetime of this magazine? >> well, i've gotten older and creekier. but-- and wiser and a little-- more patient with everybody. so i gained a lot of wisdom with age. but my fundamental commitment to exphiewsk what we stood for and what we're trying to do remains the same. "rolling stone" was a mission for me and started with the mission of promoting music and what it stood for, and it has evolved over that period of time with a growing professionalism, and with the music itself to "rolling stone" finding itselfs have a full-time voice in the
national conversation-- talking with presidents, talking about issues -- >> you went down yourself and did an interview with barack obama. >> and clinton and,s and candidates. >> rose: now, are you qualified to do that? >> i'm a good interviewer, charlie. and that's why i recognize a good interviewer in you. ( laughter ) "rolling stone" has a place in the national conversation. that's very meaningful to me. >> rose: that is in terms of its national pol techs. >> yes, but also the culture. >> rose: the impact of culture. how the culture is changing. >> culture should always be changing. culture is designed to change, designed to evolve and be contemporary, particularly popular culture. so we're always on the edge of that, on the leading edge of that, what's going on. and through the coverage of culture, i think you learn so much about what society is about, more so than you learn from the politics. >> rose: culture are the continuity of a society. >> and you read what the society
is thinking. >> rose: it's the legacy of one time to another time. culture. >> yeah. and who defines that culture? it's great ayersts. >> rose: exactly. >> there's a formula. >> rose: equal dao o after hafer"dear evanhansen is about l student caught up in a social media lie. the play has been nominated for nine tony awards, including best musical. it stars ben platt as the teenager. stephen levinson is the playwright. tell me. your character. who is evan hansen? >> he is incredibly isolated, has a lot of trouble connecting to other people, and that is sort of heightened by the hyperconnectivity of social media and the fact, with young people especially, everything they're doing online is being ibstan tainsly judged and looked at, and he feels under deep
scrutiny, which pulls him deeper and deeper into himself and makes him retreat even more. and he really just can't find a place to belong and be exphrd feel connected to anyone or anything. and through this sort of rather terrible lie that he tells about a fake friendship with a kid in his class who has committed suicide, evan grows very close to the grieving family of this kid and helps them heal in a way and find a new voice and confidence and a place to be important and belong and starts to come out of his shell, although it's all predicated on this fabrication. >> rose: is it also a critique of social media? >> when we started working on this, ben, justin, and i-- my other fellow writers, the composers of this music-- we initially talked about it as more of a frontal critique on social media, more of a parody, a satire. and as the show evolved, i think what we became interested in is exploring, yes, how social media
promotes this false idea of who we are and we're all ceend of performing on there. >> rose: and do we belong and all that? >> yes, but at the same time there is something real that happens on there. there is a sense of belonging bg that people find a sense of connection. so it really is this double-edged sword. >> rose: is it a challenge for you-- you've got to make sure we explore him and all that he's done. >> sure. >> rose: and the lies that he's telling. >> sure. >> rose: and at the same time make him a character that people don't reject. >> certainly, certainly. i think that was always from the beginning of the development eye came on board about three years ago-- was always the focus my hart expart steven and i together making sure the audience understood at every turn why he was making the decision he was making and you were seeing it was all coming from a place of good intention and wanting to heal and help people. and i think the most effective-- one of the most effective things about the show is the first sort of 12, 15 minutes when you get to meet evan and you see him give his first monologue and sing his first song, you get an idea of who this kid is and how
deep a hole he is in and you understand why he falls into this lie. >> rose: how do you explain this resonance that it has? other than great acting and -- >> i think a couple of things. i think it just really sort of accurately and without any sort of filter or lens depicts the contemporary world and the way people are connecting with each other these days and the way social media plays into that. and sort of doesn't make any sort of too harsh of a judgment on that, just presents it the way it is and makes us face how we are connect as human beings. and i think the character of evan is just somebody that has an incredible universality as far as his isolation and loneliness and his sort of deep desire to reach out and to be reached out to. and i think that everybody that comes to the show kind of finds themselves somewhere in him and can go on this journey with him, not only because it's so sort of beautifully written to sort of-- that he has the self-effacing humor, and singing these beautiful songs and you're liking him as a character but i think people see some of the
humanity in him. >> now here's a look at your weekend. the preakness stakes, the second leg of horse racing's triple crown, runs saturday at baltimore's pimlico racetrack. also robert de niro and michelle pfeiffer stars as bernie and ruth madoff in "the wizard of lies." >> i don't understand! >> you don't have to understand. >> what did you do with the money? >> i thought you were going to protect me forever. >> reporter: and after a 25-year hiatus, "twin peaks" returns on sunday for a new limited run on showtime. and here's what's new for the week ahead. sunday is the final performance of ringling brother's greatest show on earth. monday is the day the congressional budget office releases the cost estimate for the republican health care plan. tuesday is the day the 55th
season of shakespeare in the park opens in new york's central park. wednesday is the day president trump is expected to meet with pope francis in vatican city. thursday is the 40th anniversary of the release of "star wars." friday marks the start of the g-7 summit in sicily. saturday is the 80th anniversary of the opening of the golden gate bridge. >> rose: that's "charlie rose: the week" for this week. before we leave you, we want to note the death of roger ailes. he was 77. the founder and former chairman of fox news was brought down in a sexual harassment scandal last year. he was influential in republican pol techs advising richard nixon, george h.w. bush, and donald trump. but it will be his creation of the conservative and controversial fox news channel and the subsequent transformation of cable news for which he will be remembered in
part. here is roger ailes at the table. >> i think it all comes down to people and a vision. >> rose: so what's the vision? >> well, the vision is that there are some people underserveed by news in this country, that they don't necessarily agree-- they think there's a big rubber stamp. there are certain stories that aren't being covered and so on. and so we ceepped of created-- kind of created people like bill o'reilly-- we didn't create him in the sense bill has been around for 25 years, but we gave him a forum to do his thing in prime time.
for several centuries, scotland was ruled from london. parliament hadn't met here since 1707. recently, the scots voted to bring their parliament home, and london didn't object. in the year 2000, edinburgh resumed its position as home of scotland's parliament. scotland's strikingly modern parliament building opened in 2004. the catalan architect enric miralles
rose: welcome to the program. we begin with michael hanna and a look at president trump's trip abroad to saudi arabia, israel and rome. >> trump with come away from those trip and the whole nine days looking like he is engaging in foreign policy as president of the united states, the trap pings, the context will actually be much more of a win than anything he could have in the united states. >> we continue with the national security and robert mueller at the fbi go to think about this investigation and what it is and isn't. as bob mueller, throughout his career if you give him a mission he will do it to the best of his ability and he is also not going to go outside of the lines of that mission. so i would not expect at the end of the day for