tv PBS News Hour PBS July 27, 2021 3:00pm-4:01pm PDT
captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc >> woodruff: good evening, i'm judy woodruff. on the newshour tonight, masking up-- the c.d.c. revises its guidelines f face coverings as the delta variant of covid-19 drives a widespread rise in infections. we get the latest from doctor anthony fauci. then... >> there was an attack carried out on january 6 and a hitman sent them. i want you to get to the bottom of that. >> woodruff: ...investigating the insurrection-- powerful testimony from police officers who put their lives on the line defending the u.s. capitol, from fellow americans, callg for lawmakers to hold accountable those responsible for the riot. plus, a critical moment-- pakistan's role in south asia
becomes increasingly crucial as the u.s. withdraws from afghanistan. we discuss an uncertain future with the pakistani prime minister, imran khan. >> the u.s. has really messed it up in afghanistan. you see, first of all, they tried to look for a military solution in afghanistan when there never was one. >> woodruff: and, the "weight of the world"-- gymnast simone bilesteps aside saying she is not in a good place to compete. what it means for high-performing athletes to confront mental challenges. all that and more on tonight's pbs newshour. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> a raymond james financial
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>> this program was made possible by the corporation for public badcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> woodruff: the centers for disease control today reversed itself and reimposed stricter mask-wearing guidelines around the country. c.d.c. director dr. rochelle walensky said people who are fully vaccinated should resume wearing masks indoors in regions where coronavirus infections and transmission are high. she also recommended that everyone in k through 12 schools wear a mask, whatever their vaccination status.
>> woodruff: and late today, the white house confirmethat president biden will announce on thursday that all federal workers and contractors must be vaccinated against covid. those who refuse could face regular testing and other requirements. dr. anthony fauci is director of the dr. anthony fauci is director of the u.s. national institute of allergy and infectious diseases and the chief medical advisor to the president. dr. fauci, thank you very much for joining us. a part of this new guidance has to do with telling people, even those who are vaccinated, that when they are in indoor places, that they should wear a mask, if they're in locations where the virus is surging. but how are they to know where the virus is surging? that part seems unclear. >> doctor: well, the c.d.c. has a coding system of blue, yellow, orange, red. it's easily accessible on
line. when you look at it, if you're in a red or orange zone, that's the zone that the c.d.c. is specifically talking about, and it really is the number of cases that you get per 100,000 population. for example, they talk about substantial, and that means either 50 to 99.9 cases per 100,000, and when you have a high level, it's greater than 100 cases per 100,000. >> woodruff: so -- but you're saying that's not too complicated for some americans to follow? >> doctor: yeah. i think that most of the people, judy, from a practical standpoint, you know if you're in a high-level area. most othe country is in either an orange or a red zone. so it isn't as if there are just a couple of states there. if you look at the map, there are, particularly in the southern part of the country, when you look at the southern states, those are pretty mucdominated by orange and red. >> woodruff: dr. anthony fauci, the c.d.c. is saying that this is based
on new science, new data, showing that even those who are vaccinated can carry the virus with them, they can be contagious. this seems to contradict what we've been told, that once you get vaccinated you're protected. >> doctor: well, in some respects, yes, but what has changed, judy, is the virus has changed. the recommendations and the discussions that we were having months ago that the c.d.c. was basing their recommendations on, where dealing with what was called the alha variant, which is considerably different thal the defeat. the def delta variant has a very unusual capability of spreading much more easily than the alpha did. and the other data we're having, is when people get break-through infections, when they're vaccinated, even when they don't have an advanced disease, they clearly can transmit it to other people. this is not a common
event, so i don't want people to be thinking that all kinds of vaccinated people are transmitting it. no. it is a very unusual, rare event, but it occurs. so when you have vaccinated people who might have a break-through infection, and we know now as a fact, a scientific fact, they can transmit the virus to an uninfected person, it is for that reason that the c.d.c. made the change in recommendation, and did as you correctly stated, if you're vaccinated and you're in an indoor setting, you should still wear a mask. >> woodruff: i hear you saying it is based on science, but to many americans who are, by now, pandemic weary, do you understand why they may be looking at this -- and we're hearing this from a number of americans saying, well, why did the c.d.c. change the guidelines two months ago? did they jump the gun when they did that?
or they asking why weren't they more transparent in the beginning? people are asking those kinds of questions. >> doctor: those are reasonable questions, judy. but what we all need to realize is we're dealing with an evasive type of a virus. it evolves, so people need to understand, it's a painful realization, but it's true, we're dealing with a virus that is a wylie character, if you want to make a medaphor out of it. one when the c.d.c. made that recommendation 60 days ago, you were dealing with the alpha variant, which is very different than the delta variant we're seeing now. so it isn't a question of the c.d.c. flip-flopping in a vacuum. they're keeping up with the evolution of what is ing on with the virus. >> woodruff: i do want to ask you about a piece of this message, and that has to do with school children all being asked, everyone in school, people working, teachers, school
children, wearing masks. but we now see pushback from conservativ, like florida governor ron desantis. he says, and i'm quoting, "there is no indication that areas with mask mandates have performed any better than areas without mask mandates." >> docto yeah. i mean that just doesn't necessarily prove the point that he is mking. we do know that the science shows now that even people who are vaccinated and get a break-through infection can transmit. we want to keep the schools -- we -- we're saying that the country does. the c.d.c. makes the recommendations. the local school areas make the decisions. and the recommendation of the c.d.c. is that we want, above all things, to get the children back to school in-person. we don't want to go back to virtual. we don't want to close the schools. we want -- when the fall
term comes, we want that the children are in school. and in order to keep them safe in that setting, given the changing situation that has occurred, that's why the recommendation to keep everybody masked when you're dealing with schools, even if your vaccinated. >> woodruff: and, dr. anthy fauci, other pushback we're hearing from conservatives, they're saying this new mandate is going to undermine confidence on the part of people who haven't been vaccinated yet. it is going to take away the incentive to get vaccinated. >> doctor: would think, judy, just the opposi. we would not be in this situation if we already had now the overwhelming proportion of the population vaccinated. we would not be having the viral dynamics that give you a red and an orange zone. if we had the overwhelming proportion of the people vaccinated, we would not be having this conversation. so the solution to all of this is to get vaccinated, and get that 100 million
people in the country who are eligible for vaccines, who have not gotten vaccinated, to get vaccinated. and that's the reason why i'm hrtened to see that among the conservative republicans, among people like steve scalise, and even governor desantis himself, who are promoting vaccination, people like governor hutchinson, who is out there beating the bushes trying to get people vaccinated, that's the way to go. that's what is going to settle this problem. >> woodruff: one other thing, dr. anthony fauci, president biden saying today he is considering requiring the entire federal workforce to be vaccinated. do you think that is a good idea? >> doctor: i think that kind of a mandate -- i think we need mandates, i do. i don't think we need a federal mandate from the president to say mandating the entire country, but the things that you have control over, the federal workforce, i believe the move by secretary dennis mcdunna of the veterans
administration was both prudent and advisable. >> woodruff: dr. anthony fauci, we thank you very much. >> doctor: thank you, judy. thank you for having me. ♪♪ >> woodruff: in the day's other news, emotions ran high as a select congressional committee opened hearings on the january assault on the u.s. capitol. four capitol police officers told harrowing stories of being assaulted and verbally abused by a mob of trump supporters on january 6th. we'll get the details, after the news summary. a man accused of killing eight people at massage businesses around atlanta pleaded guilty today to four of the murders. robert long was sentenced to life in prison without parole. he could still get the death penalty for the other killings, in a separate proceeding. most of the victims in the march attacks were women of asian descent.
a former u.s. air force analyst is facing 45 months in federal prison for leaking secrets about a military drone program. daniel hale was sentenced today in alexandria, virginia. heelped locate targets for drone strikes in afghanistan, but he has said the strikes killed too many civilians. firefighters in parts of the western u.s. were hoping for help from cooler weather today. but there's stl no end in sight to a plague of wildfires, including onin northern california that keeps growing. stephanie sy has our report. >> sy: in dian falls, california, charred homes, cs and keepsakes are all that's left after the “dixie” fire tore through the enclave north of sacramento. it's the largest active fire in the state, and one of more than 85 wildfires burning across the nation, mostly in the drought- stricken west.
unlike the sprawling “bootleg” fire in a sparsely populated area of southern oregon, california's “dixie” fire is threatening more than 10,000 homes. calfire spokesman jon heggie says they're trying to get ahead of fire behavior that can turn aggressive quickly. >> we're really being cautious to ensure that the safety of the public is taken care of, to make sure that we're giving ourselves enough lag time. because what we've seen is throughout the summer and throughout the last few years, really, as the fires have that potential to grow exponentially, you know, within a few hours, really. >> sy: the fire ignited nearly two weeks ago. california's pacific gas & electric utility said its equipment may have played a role in starting the fire, which has been fueled by a prolonged drought and erratic winds in steep, hard-to-reach terrain. heggie says it's all part of the perilous new reality firefighters face in wildfire season. >> the lack of rain we received last winter is really showing itself this summer as aggressive fires and big devastating fires
and really the 10 year drought that we saw, we're still paying a price for that because all that fuel that was stressed and died during that 10 year drought is still on the landscape and still is available fuel. we're in a new era of firefighting and understanding that environment and making that preparations for it is key. >> sy: in indian falls, at least three dozen homes and structures have been lost, but with the“ dixie” fire less than 25% contained, the worst wreckage may lie ahead. for the pbs newshour, i'm stephanie sy. >> woodruff: in hong kong, for the first time, a court has convicted a pro-democracy protester under a new national security law imposed by china. tung yeeng-kit was found guilty today of inciting secession and terrorism. more than 100 other protesters are awaiting trial. a roman catholic cardinal and nine others went on trial today at a vatican court in a church money scandal. the defendants face charges of embezzlement and criminal
mismanagement. it's the largest criminal trial in the vatican's modern history. the tokyo olympics went ahead today, despite another record number of covid infections in the city. japan's prime minister said it is not affecting the games. in the competition, american star simone biles withdrew from the women's gymnastics team final. she said she needs to focus on her mental health. we'll return to this, later in the program. back in this country, wall street pulled back from monday's record highs, as tech stocks slumped. the dow jones industrial average lost 85 points to close at 35,058. the nasdaq fell 180 points, more than one percent. the s&p 500 slipped 20. and a passing to note: former republican senator of wyoming, mike enzi died monday after breaking his neck in a bicycling accident. he was injured last friday near his home in gillette.
enzi retired from the senate this year after serving since 1996. he was 77 years old. still to come on the newshour: we discuss the uncertain future of south asia with pakistani prime minister imran khan. and how simone biles took a brave step by confronting mental hurdles. >> woodruff: now to the raw, emotional testimony on capitol hill today, as lawmakers on a new, select committee investigating the insurrection held their first hearing. lisa desjardins has this report. and a warning to our viewers: today's testimony included
videos of violence from january 6 as well as offensive language that you will only hear in part in this report. >> we fought hand to hand, inch by inch. >> desjardins: this was january 6th, as it happened. >> i was dragged into the crowd and i heard someone scream, "i got one." >> desjardins: ...told by four police officers who defended the capitol that day, as a pro-trump mob broke into the building, seeking to stop lawmakers from certifying the election results and joe biden's presidency. >> i told them to just leave the capitol and in response they yelled “no man, this is our house. president trump invited us here. we're here to stop the steal. joe biden is not the president. >> desjardins: this was the first hearing of a house select committee to investigate january 6th, itself a sign of divide. a bipartisan commission was blocked by republicans.
and speaker pelosi rejected two of the g.o.p.'s appointees to this committee. today the remaining group, including two other republicans, kept a serious tone, alongside powerful testimony and video showing officers outnumbered 50 to one. >> i could feel myself losin oxygen. i thought this is how i'm going to die, defending this entrance. >> a man tried to rip the baton from my hands and we wrestled for control, i retained my weapon after i pushed him back he yelled at me "you're on the wrong team." different tact, shouting, "you will die on your knees." >> desjardins: d.c. police officer daniel hodges recalled seeing crowds early in the day, and hearing indications then they were certainly not tourists. >> after a bit of small talk, one of them asked my colleague something to the effect of, “is this all the manpower you have? do you really think you're going to be able to stop all these people?” >> desjardins: hours later, hodges was nearly crushed in a key doorway.
>> a man seized the opportunity of my vulnerability and grabbed my gas mask and used it to beat my head against the door. >> desjardins: rioters did pull d.c. police officer michael fanone into the crowd, and beat him. >> they ripped off my badge. they grabbed and stripped me of my radio. they seized ammunition that was secured to my body. they began to beat me with their fists, and with what felt like hard metal objects. at one point i came face to face with an attacker who repeatedly launched for me and attempted to remove my firearm. i was electrocuted, again and again and again with aaser. at the hospital doctors told me that i had suffered a heart attack. and i was later diagnosed with a concussion, traumatic brain injury and post traumatic stress disorder. >> desjardins: like many of his fellow officers, capitol police officer harry dunn ran into the mayhem, moving from one battle to another with rioters calling him a traitor and more.
>> i do my best to keep politics out of my job. but in this circumstance, i responded: "well, i voted for joe biden. does my vote not count? am i nobody?" that prompted a torrent of racial epithets. one woman in a pink maga shirt yelled, “you hear that, guys? this ( bleep ) voted for joe biden." and the crowd, perhaps 20 people, joined in screaming,“ boooo! ( bleep ) ( bleep )!” no one had ever, ever called me a ( bleep ) while wearing the uniform of a capitol police officer. >> desjardins: each has been trying to understand. sergeant aquilano gonnell of the capitol police: >> the rioters called me a traitor, a disgrace, and shouted that i--i, an army veteran and
police officer, should be executed. on january 6th, for the first time, i was more afraid to work at the capitol than in my entire deployment to iraq. >> desjardins: the officers said their experience tells them the same danger still exists, and the capitol needs to be better fortified. >> one of the scariest things about january 6th is that the people that were there, even to this day, think that they were right. they think that they were right and that makes for a scary recipe for the future of this country. >> desjards: all expressed frustration and even anger at members of congress who have questioned the seriousness of the day. >> i feel like i went to hell and back to protect them andhe people in this room, but too many are now telling me that hell doesn't exist or that hell, actually wasn't that bad. >> i need you guys to address if anyone in power had a role in
this. if anyone in power coordinated, or aided or abetted, or tried to downplay, tried to prevent the investigation of this terrorist attack becausee can't do it. we're not allowed to. >> desjardins: earlier in the day, republicans held their own news conference decrying the committee as political and pledging their own push to find out what happened. >> january 6 should have never happened. we should've prepared and be prepared for the officers. make sure they have the training, the equipment that they needed. >> desjardins: but in the hearing, illinois republican adam kinzinger said his party was wrong to block a commission. he spoke directly to the officers. >> you guys may individually you know democracies are not defined by our bad days. are defined by how we come back from bad days.
i want all americans to be able to trust the work that this committee does, and get the facts out there free of conspiracy. >> desjardins: the committee now begins its work in earnest: gathering documents, interviewing other witnesses, and answering police officers' call for the facts. >> you carried out your duties at tremendous risk. now we on this committee have a duty, however, a far less dangerous one, but an essential one. >> desjardins: the committee has not yet decided on timeline to complete its work. but let's talk about what's ahead. what does the panel need to do and what questions about january 6 still need answers? seamus hughes is a counterterrorism expert with the program on extremism at george washington university. he previously worked in the national counterterrorism center, and as a staffer on the senate homeland security committee. >> seamus, i know you watched the hearing.
it was gripping. i seen saw capitol police officers watching on flier phones at capitol hill. i'm wondering what was new to you? >> i don't know if there is anything new in terms of information. what was new is telling the story, right? that's the goal of the first hearing. what is the story trying to get after? that is that this was not just simply a peaceful protest. you had these four officers in dress uniforms, talking about being violently attacked by the crowd, chairs being thrown at them, a mob coming through. that's what you want to get through. you talk about the day, you talk about the emotions of the day, and then you get to the facts in the second and third hearings. >> talking about those facts, what exactly do you hope this committee is able to shed light on? what is important to get it here for this committee? >> if i'm a congressional staffer, what i'm doing is not resting on my laurels. i'll writing oversight letters to departments and agencies, to dozens of them. i need documents, i need subpoenas. i need to know what
happened. why did the national guard -- wt delayed? did the f.b.i. issue a national intelligence bulletin to the state and local field? was there a lead-up at the bureau about suspects on that day? what are the facts that we failed to know at that point? ideally you're not looking for individual blame in these types of investigations. you're looking for systemic issues. what are the things you can address through legislation, through resources, to get to the heart of what happened on january 6 to prevent the next january 6. >> a lot of those groups you mentioned right there, those are counter agencies, controlled by the president and the executive branch. you know as well as anyone, congress has a hard time getting documents from the executive branch. how important or documents, do you think, in this particular investigation, and how hard is it going to be for congress to get them? >> it is going to be an uphill battle, right? no matter if it is a republican or democratic administration, no one wants to be the subject of
an investigation. and that includes the departments and agencies. they're not going to willingly hand over 302s, the documents from the f.b.i., and they're not going to hand over d.o.d. memos. you'll have to fight them tooth and nail to get those things. that's why the first hearing is so important. the first hearing sets the stage and ratchets up the pressure to get those documents. saying this is a serious effort and so you need to give us those things. and what usually happens, and i've done a number of them in my career, there is stonewalling. there is a dance. you go back and forth and say i want everything you've got, and they say no, and they say no again, and they say no again. you keep adding the pressure. you do interviews, you do op-edits. you push them to the point where they give you documents. the documents only tell part of the story. what is important is the context between the black and white. that's where the role of interviews are the so doing the briefings with the f.b.i. or the department of defense or others, but also en willing to get on a
red-eye plane and end up in a small town in the middle of america and interview a urce that hasn't tked before, getting the context behind that electronic communication that came from a field office or norfolk down to d.c. what were they thinking at that time? it is a long, hard slog, and that's why you'll see the first hearing is government officials talking, you see the police officers, because you don't want to bring in the government officials until you know all of the facts. >> in the last minute or so we have left, bring us up to speed on where our government is with extremism, especially with racists and the white supremacist groups that the f.b.i. have made, and the groups that still want to reject the election. what is the danger right now? >> right now about550 people have been rested they came come from a number of groups, from the proud boys, the supremacists, individuals, and things like that.
but the last six months the biden administration has released a new domestic terrorism strategy, the first time they he ever done tt. we're seeing the f.b.i. moved on to white supremacy cases. you're seeing a plus of resources. u.s. attorneys are prosecuting cases they never have before. you're seeing a complete sea change when it comes to counterextremism programs in this country. in the past, understandable believe so, focused on international terrorism, and now they're focusing on domestic extremism. >> seamus hughes from the george washington university, thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> woodruff: in just over one month, according to president biden, the u.s. will have completed its withdrawal from afghanistan, after 20 years. but for those two decades, afghanistan's neighbor to the east, pakistan, has been a key player in the regional dynamics, and stands long-accused by the
united states and afghanistan of supporting the taliban. in a moment, i'll have an interview with pakistan's prime minister, imran khan. but first, some background on him, and the fraught relationship with the u.s., and afghanistan. from the 1970's to the early¡ 90's, imran khan was a professional athlete, a cricket star, guiding pakistan's national team to victory. now, as pakistan's prime minister, he's leading his country at a time of regional tumult. as the u.s. leaves afghanistan, the taliban is making swift territorial advances. when the taliban recently took over a key afghan-pakistani border crossing, residents on the pakistani side smed to celebrate, waving taliban flags and honking horns. recently, afghan president ashraf ghani made a longstanding accusation: pakistan provides
insurgents safe haven. >> intelligence estimates indicate the influx of over 10,000 jihadi fighters from pakistan and other places in the last month, as well as support from their affiliates in the trans-national terrorist organization. >> woodruff: khan said he took offense. >> i feel really disappointed that we have been blamed for what is going on in afghanistan. what is happening in afghanistan is over two decades of conflict. >> woodruff: but for more than two decades, the u.s. has accused pakistan, especially its intelligence services, of providing sanctuary and support to the taliban. the breaking point was a series of brazen attacks in 2011. the first, on the intercontinental hotel in kabul, killed more than 30 people. then-u.s. joint chiefs chairman mike mullen directly blamed pakistan's support for the taliban-linked haqqani network.
>> the haqqani network, for one, acts as a veritable arm of pakistan's inter-services intelligence agency. >> woodruff: at the time of mullen's remarks, khan said the u.s. should take advantage of the relationship between haqqani and pakistan's powerful i.s.i. intelligence service. >> i do not think that i.s.i. controls the haqqani network. yes, they would have connections with them. and if i was the united states, i would use this connection of the i.s.i. with the haqqani network to actually get them on the negotiating table. >> woodruff: khan has stoked controversy with comments about sexual assault. he recently said that, in pakistan's conservative society, women who do not cover themselves risk “consequences.” >> it is a completely different society way of life here. sof you raise temptation in the society to the point, and all these young guys have nowhere to go, it has consequences in the society.
>> woodruff: those comments spurred protests, including this one in karachi. >> we do not accept these kinds of theories that because of us and the way we dress there is immorality, that there is rape, this is totally unacceptable. >> woodruff: now, to my interview with prime minister khan. he was in islamabad, the pakistani capital, when we spoke early this morning. prime minister khan, thank you very much for joining us. let me start by asking you your assessment of the situation in afghanistan right now with u.s. troops almost completely out after 20 years. >> well, judy, i think the u.s. has really messed it up in afghanistan, you see first of all, they try to look for a military solution in afghanistan when there never was one. and people like me who kept saying that there's no military
solution. you know, the history of afghanistan, we will call people like we will call anti-american. i was called taliban khan for anyone who objected to this way of i don't know what the objective was in afghanistan, whether it was to have some nation building or democracy or liberate the women, whatever the cause was, the way they went about it was never going to be the solution. so when they finally decided that there is no military solution, unfortunately, they the bargaining power of the americans or the nato forces had gone. when there were 150,000 nato troops in afghanistan that was the time to go for a political solution. but once they had reduced the
troops to 10,000 and then went to give an exit date, the taliban thought they had won. and so therefore, it was very difficult for now to get them to coromise. it's very difficult to force them into a political solution because they think that, you know, they won. >> woodruff: well,hatever has happened in the past, as we said, the taliban now is on the rise in afghanistan. is that a good outcome for afghanistan? >> the only good outcome for afghanistan ishat if there is a political settlement which is inclusive, so they form some sort of a government that that includes all sorts of different factions, there. obviously taliban part of that government. the worst situation in afghanistan would be if there's a civil war and a protracted civil war. and from pakistan's point of
view, that is the worst case scenario, because we then, we have, we face two scenarios. one refugee problem: already pakistan is hosting over three million afghan refugees. and what we fear is that a protracted civil war would be more refugees. and, you know, economic situation is not such that we can we can have another influx. secondly, the worry is that the civil war will flow into pakistan because, you know, the taliban are basically ethnic pashtuns. now they're more pashtuns on either side of the border than in afghanistan. and so the worry is that if this goes on, the pashtuns on our side will be drawn into it. so that's and that also is the last thing we want. >> woodruff: and i do want to ask you about pakistan. but before we leave afghanistan,
the united states has been asking your government for many years to help in the in the effort to limit to fight the taliban in afghanistan. but the u.s. and other organizations now say they have massive amounts of evidence that pakistan has helped the afghan afghan taliban with military, with intelligence, has helped them financially. how do you explain that this is a terrorist group operating in afghanistan? how do you explain the support your government has given repeatedly over e years to the afghan taliban? >> judy, i find this extremely unfair, and so you should know a little bit of the history come 9/11, pakistan had nothing to do with what happened, the terrorist act in new york. pakistan, in the sense that al- qaida was based in afghanistan.
there were no militant taliban in pakistan, no pakistani was involved. and so when pakistan but the pakistani government decided to join the u.s.'s war on terror, this country, took a, was devastated by that. 70,000 pakistanis died in that war, which we had nothing to do with. we had over $150 billion lost to the economy. >> woodruff: it's not the only thing that's blame, but it's an important thing that's blamed in that the afghan taliban has always been able to have a safe haven next door in pakistan. and again, the u.s. says it has mountains of evidence that your i.s.i., other elements of the pakistan military, have helped the taliban in afghanistan over the years. just in the last few days, there's a report 10,000 pakistan fighters have crossed over the border to help the taliban in this most recent fighting. so this is going on right now.
>> judy, for a start, this ten thousand taliban or they call the afghan government, the jihadi fighters have crossed over this is absolute nonsense. why don't they give us evidence of this? firstly, let me just go back: en they said that pakistan gave safe havens, sanctuaries to taliban, where are these safe havens? when you when we said there are three million afghan refugees in pakistan who are, by the way, the same ethnic group as the taliban, pashtuns. now, there are camps of 500,000 people. there comes 100,000 people. and taliban are not some military outfit. they are normal civilians. and if there are some civilians in these camps, how is pakistan supposed to hunt these people down? how can you call them sanctuaries? >> woodruff: let me ask you, mr. prime minister, what relationship do you want now with the united states?
you've said under no circumstances would you allow the u.s. to set up the c.i.a. to have any sort of bases in pakistan to support counterinsurgency. but are you saying no cooperation with the u.s. to fight terrorism? >> when you say about u.s. having bases of unterterrorism, please let me make you understand this. when a country loses 70,000 people and is bankrupted by this war on terror, when we join the u.s. after 2000 after 9/11. we do not have the capacity to have any more fighting within our borders or any terrorism within our country, because when we were in the height of that war on terror, which paktan joined, there were suicide bombs taking place all over the country. the business has collapsed. tourism collapsed.
so we are we do what. we do not want to be as part of any conflict. now, if there's a conflict going on in afghanistan and their bases in pakistan, we then become targets. we will then become part of a conflict which we were in the last 15 years. and we do not want we want to be partners in peace, but not in conflict. >> woodruff: so what sort of relationship do you want? do you what do you expect from the united states at this point? you're looking for a trading relationship. what is it that you want your relationship with the united states to be after this very fraught period of the last 20 plus years? >> well, judy, the last relationship was transactional, pakistan was more like a hired gun. the u.s. says that we paid you gave you aid and that's why you were fighting this so-called war on terr. pakistan, on the other hand, felt that here was a country
which had no need to be part of this war. it loses 70,000. i mean, which other country has lost 70,000 pele fighting for someone else's war? so pakistanis felt that here we were fighting u.s. war. our economy devastated. it was minuscule compared to the amount of money we lost in the economy. and yet we were blamed for the failure in afghanistan. this is the pakistani point of view. now, pakistan's position is very straightforward. we want to help and we have helped getting the taliban to talk to the u.s., got them on the dialog table. we have done our bit now. what we cannot afford now, if there is a civil war, what the u.s. wants u.s. bases in pakistan, if there's civil war in afghanistan. but if there's civil war in afghanistan, we will immediately get stuck into it. there will be terrorism within
pakistan we do not want, apart from anything, that our country cannot afford it. we have just recovered from a desperate economic situation and we do not want to go through it again. >> woodruff: i hear that message at the same time. do you expect that if the taliban does succeed in afghanistan, you're gog to have a country next door where women, for one thing, are not allowed to have an education after the age of eight, that you're going to have a country run by a group of terrorists in effect. >> but, judy, what are we supposed to do about it? i mean, the u.s. for two decades in afghanistan trying to force a military solution. the reason why we are in this position now is because the military solution failed. now, what choices have we got? the best choices that somehow we have a political settlement in afghanistan where it is, as i repeat, an inclusive government. so taliban sit down with the with the other side and they
form an inclusive government. this is the best outcome. there is no other outcome because the military solution has failed. >> woodruff: are you prepared to accept taliban victory next door? you're saying in essence, there's nothing, nothing more pakistan can do. >> absolutely, there's nothing more we can do except push them as much as we can for a political settlement, that's all. but what happens in afghanistan, we can only pray that the people of afghanistan decide what government they want. and so we hope that that's what will happen in the end, then form some sort of an inclusive government. but that's what people of afghanistan, as far as pakistan is, is concerned. we have done what we can. >> woodruff: last thing i do want to ask you, just take just a moment to ask you about a comment you made about the role of women in your country. you said in an interview last month that women themselves bear
a large part of the responsibility for the concerning rise in the number of rape cases in pakistan. i want to ask you if you truly believe that. i meanyou're someone you've lived in the west, you've traveled widely around the world. do you believe women bear a large part of the responsibility for this? >> look, judy, anyone who commits rape solely and solely that person is responsible. so let's be clear about that, no matter whatever how much ever a woman is provocative or whatever she wears, the girl, the person who commits rape, he is fully responsible. never is the victim responsible. myomments were completely taken out of context. they were simply talking about pakistan society, where we are having a rise, a sharp rise in sex crimes and sex crime does not include just women more than
rape or child abuse, which is going through the roof. so my comments were in that context and it was i use the word padar in islam, but that does not mean just clothes and is not restricted to women only, but that is for men as well. it means bringing the temptation down in a society. this is what i was talking about and it was taken out of deliberately. and i have to say, because i know all the interviews i've given, never would i see such a stupid thing where a person who's raped is responsible for somehow-- it's always the rapist that is responsible. >> woodruff: do you believe that, that that the importance in your country of islam complicates your ability to do something to take a stronger stand against violence against women? >> absolutely not, islam gives dignity, respect to women. in fact, let me say, having
traveled all over the world, i find that in muslim countries in pakistan, even in other muslim countries, i've seen women having far more treated with respect and given more dignity. you have heard cases everywhere in the world, but you look at the situation in pakistan even now. i mean, look at the rape cases here compared to western countries. they are minuscule compared to them. yes, we have issues. we have sort of cultural problems. every nation has that. but that comes with cultural evolution, with education. but as far as a woman's dignity goes, respect, i can say after going all over the world, this society gets more respect and dignity to women. >> woodruff: prime minister imran khan, thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> thank you.
>> woodruff: it was a stunning moment at the tokyo olympics this morning. simone biles, considered the top gymnast in the world and favored to bring home gold medals, withdrew from the team competition. her decision came after her performance on the vault. and, she said, it was not because of a physical injury. john yang looks at the pressure on biles and how she discussed her own mental health. >> yang: judy, at the tokyo games, biles seemed disappointed as she spoke to reporters and explained her decision. >> today has been really stressful. we had a workout this morning. it went okay. and then just that five and a half hour wait or something. i was just like shaking could barely nap. i've just never felt like this going into a competition before. ani tried to go out here and have fun and warm up in the back when a little bit better. but then once i came out here, i was like, no, mental is not there. so i just need to let the girls
do it and focus on myself. >> yang: before the event, in an instagram post, biles talked about the pressure she'd been feeling at the olympics: "...i truly do feel like i have the weight of the world on my shoulders at times. i know i brush it off and make it seem like pressure doesn't affect me but damn sometimes it's hard." angie fifer is a former gymnast and track and field athlete who now owns breakthrough performance consulting, which works with individual athletes and teams. >> angie fifer, thank you so much for being with us. help the rest of us understand what the pressures are like for someone like simone biles, who performs so consistently at such a high standard, and has all these expectations, and has had all of these expectations placed her for years now. >> the weight of pressure that simone has on her shoulders is in
surmountable. imagine if you went to the office, and everybody watched every move you made and made sure that every single thing that you did all day long was perfect. and that's the pressure they felt coming into these games. i think we could see a little bit of that through the earlier competitions this year, and then we've definitely seen it in tokyo. >> reporter: do fans and people who follow these sports expect too much of athletes? >> i think, yes. simone is an incredible gymnast, she performs with so much difficulty and incredible execution, but to expect that she is perfect every time is asking too much of anyone. that's not human, to be perfect every time. and the mistakes that she made during the olympics so far, she took steps. and the media came crashing down on her for u.s.a.'s struggles. that really was an unfair description of hir performance. >> and so much of this is
the media looking for a storyline, looking for an individual that they can highlight and follow through the competition. do you think that that is more of a negative than a plus? >> honestly, i've been really disappointed about the overcriticism that the media has done on the team u.s.a. women's gymnastics. they focused solely on mistakes. they were very critical about their qualification round, in which they came in second, doing the job that they needed to do just to get to that next day, the day of the finals, and they focused only on mistakes. simone qualified first coming into this competition, in the whole world, and all that the media showed was extra steps that sh took or mistakes that she made. and the rest of the girls, they didn't even mention their names. this is a team event, and team u.s.a. gymnastics has done a phenomenal job, and it would have been nice to
see them call out the greatness instead of mistakes. this is a sport that is incredibly dangerous. if she were to have powered through today, there is no telling what could have happened. i think she made a very mature and courageous decision today, and when she talked about her decision, she talked about it nt being fair to the rest of the team, for her to go out there and potentially lose them the medal. >> and losing the mental focus could endanger her physically, she could make a misstep? >> absolutely. >> only simone biles really knows what is going on inside her head. but we do know her background: difficult challenge hood, survival of sexual abuse by larry nassar, one of the few black stars in a predominantly white sport. can these pressures also carry over into performance? >> trauma is accumulative, and as all of those things that you mentioned that simone has been through
with her background, the sexual assault she suffered from larry nassar, that doesn't just go away. and she deals with that trauma on a daily basis. and then the pressure to be perfect alongside of that, it has to be a tremendous cross to bear. >> she says she is going to be thinking about, in the next day, she has a day off, and she is going to be thinking about whether to continue to compete. as she thinks through this, as a performance coach yourself, as a former competitor, what sorts of things would you want her to be thinking about? >> i want her to be prioritizing herself. number one is getting in some relaxation, and mindfulness time, letting her mind just clear and stopping all of the overthinking and the overanalyzing. probably stay away from social media and the news because a lot of the commentary has been about solely on her and solely focused on all of her
mistakes, instead of focusing on how great she has done so far. and so i think those are two really big priorityizations. and then for her to really go back to her routines and think about what she could do, what she wants to do in order to perform on thursday and beyond, buthat really will be up to her. >> angie fifer, breakthrough performance consulting, thank you very much. >> you're very welcome. >> woodruff: and tonight on the pbs newshour online, as wildfires in the western u.s. pump harmful smoke into the atmosphere, communities with existing air pollution challenges find themselves at a higher risk of negative health effects. we go to fresno, california, to hear about the factors that contribute to poor air quality year round, and how local advocates are trying to keep vulnerable communities safe. read more on our website, that's: pbs.org/newshour.
and that's the newshour for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. join us online and again here tomorrow evening. for all of us at the pbs newshour, thank you, please stay safe, and we'll see you soon. >> major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> carnegie corporation of new york. supporting innovations in education, democratic engagement, and the advancement of international peace and security. at carnegie.org.
>> and with the ongoing support of these institutions >> this program was made possible by the corporation fo public broadcasting. and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioning sponsored by newshour productions, llc captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org
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