tv Amanpour on PBS PBS April 23, 2018 6:00am-6:30am PDT
welcome to amanpour on pbs. tonight, a rare interview after controversial elections with the president of kenya. he talks trump, china, and troubling turn in democracy in his country. and collaboration of two of the world's biggest music stars. england meet kingston, jamaica and their album 44876. ♪ ♪ >> good evening, everyone, and welcome to the program. i'm christiane amanpour in
lond london. kenya, once a shining example in africa, is losing some of the luster. elections are marred by irregularities and violence. kenyatta the current president, his father was the first president after independence and was known as the father of the nation. his son is now facing some criticism for his part in the turmoil and for shutting down tv networks when they broadcast a fake swearing in held by the opposition figure odinga. but incredibly these two bitter rivals then surprised the nation when they posed for handshakes, smiles, and a pledge to put their differences aside. president kenyatta is attending the commonwealth summit here in london this week and he came into our studio to talk hope and change for his country. but i started by getting his take on the controversy over britain threatening to deport children of the commonwealth who are invited in during the 1950s.
president kenyatta, welcome to the program. >> thank you very much. >> you are here to celebrate the 70th year of the commonwealth. >> that's right. >> kenya has been a long-standing member. i want to know what you make of the controversy while you are here, of a very harsh immigration deportation action that is threatening to deport some of the members of the commonwealth who came over in the '50s after the war at the invitation of the british government to rebuild this place, and some of your fellow commonwealth caribbeans are finding unfriendly deportation notices. >> i believe that there is need for all of us across the board to, to recognize that we need, you know, one another. and the most important thing is these people, unlike current immigration which one would understand, if there was a push towards that direction. actually as you said, came here at the invitation of the british government to help support and
develop this country, in line with our partnership as part of the commonwealth. so, it's a bit depressing, i must be honest. and i appreciate the kind of steps that theresa may is taking towards calming down that whole situation, and i hope that they just as we in kenya, post colonial period, we started off very clearly that those who are of british national who decided that they wanted to remain in kenya and be kenyans, we gave them that option. >> what do you make of the current trump administration, particularly the comments that president trump made about immigration from africa, using profanity for some of the countries? and about his policy of aid and development to africa? >> again, i say that some of these comments are unfortunate.
we have had, as kenya, for example, very good, long-standing partnership with the united states. we have a lot of kenyans who have contributed immensely in very many fields in, in, in the united states. and we are looking to see how we can deepen that partnership. and one of the things that i must admit is quite troubling is how we see today a growing tendency towards isolationism, moving away from globalization, which has enabled many countries in the west to reach the levels of development that they have. and now constraining it when it comes to the african continent, and not understanding that it is through deeper partnerships, deeper engagement that maybe some of the problem migration occurring would stop occurring. >> with that in mind, everything you've just said, knowing that president trump almost in the first days after his inauguration talked about a very
different kind of american relationship with africa, a much more transactional relationship. you know, if it's good for us we'll help. we'll do business deals, those kinds of things, but not necessarily the development aid that has been traditional. do you worry that that -- i mean, do you feel you're getting enough investment, even under this new paradigm from the united states? >> well, he's talking about encouraging investment. we are keen, we are looking forward to that investment. that investment helps provide jobs, helps create opportunities, especially for our young people who probably would be the ones who would be most susceptible to migration. so, that is a quid pro quo. it works both ways. but at the end of the day, diplomacy is not just about those hard transactional items. it's also about the soft things. about being able to understand what are the core issues that concern people. what are the core issues that are creating problems. and we they'd to also be able to deal with some of those issues. we can't just push them aside
and brush them under the carpet. it's about investment. it's about trade, but it is also about promoting certain ideals that we all share as democracies. >> let's talk about the politics in your country. it's been a crazy turbulent year. a lot of difficulties, an election that was nullified and the opposition leader pulled out of the second round and then you were declared the winner eventually and here you are reelected a second time. but it didn't come without a lot of pain on many, many levels. what can you say, first and foremost, to the parents of the people who were killed in the election violence who still to this day, despite your handshake with the opposition leader mr. odinga, feel that they have not had accountability, that their kids were not criminals in the streets and didn't deserve to die? >> the first thing i'll say is that nobody celebrates death of any kind. and one of the things that we must also be clear about is that
it is very clear that, yes, indeed, there were unfortunate incidents and some of those unfortunate incidences were actively instigated by certain individuals for political end. and if i was to assess the situation that happened, as unfortunate as those who lost their lives did lose their lives, we are nowhere near -- and kenya has come a long way from the problems that we experienced in 2010 when it was basically almost all-out war. we need just to continue to mature to a level where we must accept that competitive politics does not mean enmity, opposing ideas. >> before i dig down, i want to know for the parents' sakes, do you as president of kenya offer an apology to kenya -- >> i abhor all loss of life. and to all those who were hurt on both sides of the political divide, as far as i'm concerned,
we have no responsibility for those. given the action that's were taken. but as a parent myself, i feel for them. i sympathize with them. and i give them my assurance that i will do everything that is in my power to ensure that this kind of thing never happens again. and make available all channels to ensure that anybody who lost life or property is availed a channel to get justice. that i put on the table. >> so, now let's talk about the election which was incredibly contested. you're saying all the right things about competitive politics and to be able to actually contest elections without violence, without censorship, without taking the media and television stations off the air. presumably you agree with that as well. >> we want to be very clear. the only time during that entire period that the media was shutdown -- and it wasn't the
media. kenya is a country that has over 70 stations operating, including cnn, over 70. only three media houses were shut down. and this is after a detailed discussion prior to when the shutdown occurred, with all those media houses, with all of us agreeing with our legal people, that what they wanted to air was tantamount to treason. them agreeing, them proceeding to air, and we said on that basis those who do air that particular program will be shutdown in accordance with our laws. and we proceeded to do exactly that for that one single occasion. >> in that case, are you saying that this will not happen again? because -- >> as we have always said, free press, and there is no country with a freer press. i think cnn can stand to -- >> people did say that those
three channel that's were schulte doshut down because they were broadcasting opposition rallies. >> a single day odinga went and purported to swear himself in as president of the republic of kenya. that was the only day. and you can do your homework and check. the only day that they were shut down. and we said that those who are going to do that, this is going to be the action. and so they were all aware. >> so, fast forward, suddenly you and odinga are shaking hands and speaking like long-lost brothers. people were very surprised by that. let me quote to you some of the things you said. this marks a new beginning for the country. that we may differ politically and we should unite as kenyans for the sake of the country. odinga himself said the reality is that we need to save our children from ourselves. that's pretty dramatic. >> it's more or less in line
with what i've been telling you christiane. >> how did that happen, removing television channels, all that of? >> purely from the point of view -- and i've always maintained that, that i am always ready and open for dialogue, for exchange on the basis of what is in the best interest of the people of kenya. and as far as i was concerned, the competitive politics were over. it is a government. we acknowledged there is an opposition. and we said -- and i said it very clearly -- that i have no problem reaching out to find bipartisan solutions to the issues that affect us, to the problems that kenyans have. we don't have sole monopoly of all the right ideas and analysis. we need to open ourselves up to constructive criticism and constructive engagement and that was the offer. >> one of the major issues, and it's a holdover from sort of
colonial victorian, is the issue of sexual preference in many african countries. in kenya, to be gay, the lgbt community is illegal. they just want to have equal rights, the same privacy and equality as all other kenyans do. is that something that you aspire to for your country? >> i want to be very clear, christiane. i will not engage in a subject that is of no -- it is not of any major importance to the people and the republic of kenya. this is not an issue as you would want to put it, of human rights. this is an issue of society, of our own base as a culture, as a people. irregardless of which community you come from. this is not acceptable. this is not agreeable. this is not saying yes or no.
this is an issue the people of kenya themselves who have bestowed on themselves a constitution, right, after several years, have clearly stated that this is not a subject that they are willing to engage in at this time. in years to come, possibly long after i'm president, who knows. maybe our society will have reached a stage where those are issues where people are free and open and willing to discuss. that is a position we have always maintained. those are the laws that we have, and those are laws that are 100% supported by 99% of the kenyan people, irregardless of where they come from. >> so, you're going to get yourself into trouble because what you've categorically just stated is this is not an issue
for us, for the kenyan people and you don't think that the idea of their privacy, their equality, their rights is important? it's a global issue right now. >> it's important to them where they are. >> why isn't it important to you as president of the country? >> it isn't important to me as the leader of 49 million kenyans. and after, if you want to ask me my personal opinion -- >> what is your personal opinion? >> after i finish my process, i can talk about my personal opinion. but as the leader of the people of the republic of kenya, i represent that which our people are desireous to be. and i have no choice but, but that is my position. >> would you publicly say that people who are lgbt, gay members of the kenyan population, should
not be discriminated against, should not be violated, should not be abused? no kenyan, no kenyan should be abused, should be, you know, mistreated in any particular -- every kenyan is protected by law. every single kenyan. but they also must recognize that their freedoms are also -- must be taken into the entire context of the society that they live in, because this is not a question of governments accepting or not accepting. this is a question of of society. >> currently a legal process. >> yes. and that legal process is based on the society that you live in. and that's why laws are made. so, i think that's all i have to say about that particular subject. >> on that note, president kenyatta, thank you very much for joining us. >> as always, thank you. >> the president being alarmingly frank on this
controversial issue in africa, and turning now from kenya to jamaica, the inspiration for a surprising new musical collaboration from two of the world's most popular musicians. gordon sumner, a.k.a. sting, and oroville richard borrow known around the world as shaggy. they have teamed up for a reggae. take a listen to their first single, "don't make me wait." ♪ don't make we wait ♪ love you ♪ don't make me wait ♪ don't make me wait so long, girl ♪ ♪ don't make we wait ♪ don't make me wait to love, to love, to love you ♪ ♪ >> so, the album comes out today and they join me to talk about their possibly surprising
collaboration and the bond between their diverse, but intimately linked cultures. sting, shaggy, welcome to the program. >> hello. >> it's not obvious this pairing. what brought to you together, or is it? >> well, it's a surprise to everyone, including us. but it was a happy accident, and we decided to make a record together just out of our friendship and our rapport. we realized, although we're from different cultures, have different voices, somehow our voices blend together in a way that neither of us expected. and i'm not sure the world is ready for this. [ laughter ] >> why not? >> i hope so. well, you know, it is a surprise. we started from one song. he walked in singing a song that i asked him to do. and once i heard our voices really connected, i was startled a bit. and, you know, once we started doing some other records, it was
evident at that point we had a body of work and that there was a rapport that we built and we really like each other's company. and we really -- because the studio sessions were always filled with so much laughter. after awhile we were like, will this shock the world? let's -- >> you're from reggae. you have some reggae influence. >> common ground was reggae influence, i was influenced by that. most of the songs began in the basement with reggae then we built this pop album above that. >> yes. >> it kind of materialized around us by accident. and it's a conversation between two people from different cultures and talking about issues that concern us. but really we're just having fun. >> the song we played an excerpt of in the intro is more the reggae beat but we want it make
dreaming of the usa which is more pop, dancy. let's play a little of that because it also has a message. ♪ you're dreaming of the usa ♪ it's never easy looking for another way ♪ ♪ god bless america, dreaming of the usa ♪ ♪ >> so, it really has a great beat, but it's also, for the purposes of our conversation here, got a real message about america. and i know that you served in desert storm, the first gulf war. you're an immigrant to the united states. you are a little bit of an immigrant, although i don't know whether you call yourself one. you live there now. >> yeah, i was attracted to america for good reason. we all love america for the right reasons, for the movies, for music, for art, literature, culture. and i also take that citation on
the side of the empire state -- empire state. help me. >> statue of liberty. >> statue of liberty very seriously. i think a lot of those values we were attracted to are under threat. and so a febrile political atmosphere. i wanted to write a love letter to america, the america we were attracted to. >> your mother came over to work in the united states and brought you over. >> as a kid, they always dream of it. i remember my mom wanted to come to america to make a better life and, you know, when you look at that and see that's under threat -- when this song came about, i was like, this is so us. it speaks to both of us. me being an exmilitary person and someone who served, i think i've earned the right to, you know, let my voice be heard.
we're just using this as a platform to represent not just every immigrant, but for me on a personal level, every jamaican, every caribbean person that has come here. know the song is dreaming of the usa and we're talking about all the stuff that happened to immigrants and dreamers. there are dreamers here in the brexit situation. it's also another situation. what happened in syria is another situation. >> what do you want people to get out of this album. it is different. it's had very interesting reviews. very good reviews. they call it viby and catchy. unexpectedly likeable album, some people say. why do they say unexpectedly? >> unexpectedly? >> i'll take unexpectedly. i'll take likeable as well. >> unexpected is the element of surprise. that's the first thing that gets everybody, they're surprised of the pairing. and then when they listen to the
music, wow, but it's not so surprising because, you know, the early police stuff were heavily reggae influenced. and i'm a reggae artist. we build on top of that and create this hybrid. >> have you heard the police growing up? >> it was a big influence. the police, you know, they started as a punk band and morphed into somewhat of a reggae band. they were like the gateway for mainstream music, to get reggae on the mainstream. because of that, they were very popular in jamaica. i remember as a kid hearing roxanne singing through my radio. they became massive super stars and became incredibly popular and undeniable. >> do you dare sing for me a little roxanne bar? i'm going to play a little of the actual record, then we can
talk about it. ♪ roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light ♪ ♪ those days are over ♪ >> he wasn't that far off. >> for him that still amazes me is how he still sings it on stage strong at full voice every night. blows me away. >> it's beautiful. listen, obviously no interview would be an interview without reading you some of the barbs because people are surprised. so, this is the nme. there is something weirdly enjoyable about this abomination an album. maraderie -- this is the same one who said it's weirdly likeable. these are staggeringly beautiful unself-conscious men insulated by success. their hearts are in the right place even if their better judgment were sunning itself
somewhere in kingston. [ laughter ] >> i'll take all of that. that's totally fine. i'm not going to argue with any of that. >> i like it. i like that people are just -- you know, they're surprised and we have caught them off guard and it's against the grain and we're disruptive, you know what i mean? you cannot deny good music. the music itself is timeless. the way it's made is in a timeless way. >> a little to the point. you are going to be among others performing for the queen at her 92nd birthday at the royal albert hall. have you done that before? >> i've never performed in front of her before, no. i'm not sure we are her real musical taste. >> i think the queen gets down to reggae regularly. i'm been saying that. he >> we'll find out. >> we are honored. i'm the first of my country to perform in front of the queen
like that. it's definitely in dance halls, it's a big deal for me. i'm happy for the opportunity and we're just going to go there and really have some fun with it. >> 44876 is the name of the album. why? >> 44 is country code in great britain. >> 876 is for jamaica. we were going to name it joint venture but we decided -- >> this is better. [ laughter ] >> but it's out today, everybody. go get it for your uncle, your aunt, your sister, your pets. >> everyone. it's a good listen, it really is. it's great. thank you very much. shaggy, sting, thank you for being here. >> thank you, christiane. >> music is one crucial bond that links all our different cultures. of course it's not the only one, which brings me to my series sex and love around the world. continuing, in fact, having its finale on cnn this saturday. and this week i head to shanghai, china to explore how societal constraints influence sexual relationships in one of the most rapidly evolving cities on the planet. when i first came to
shanghai in the '70s, individ l individuality was unthinkable. all these years later i find the city is full of self-expression. women have reclaimed control of their appearance, their sexuality. and how they use it. so, sex and love around the world continues this saturday and our finale is a double header with the shanghai episode at 10:00 p.m. eastern time and akra, ghana at 11:00 p.m. thank you for watching amanpour on pbs and join us for next time. ♪ ♪
♪ (female speaker) support for "yoga in practice" is provided by the etv endowment of south carolina. ♪ ♪ welcome to "yoga in practice." my name is stacey, and i will be your teacher. please close your eyes and deepen your breath. we seem to always be in a rush, speeding here and there and feeling as if there's not enough time. this rapid pace of life compromises our well-being and ages us prematurely. yoga teaches us that the present moment is the only moment. this class will focus on the slow and steady practice