tv Meet the Press NBC February 1, 2016 2:00am-3:00am MST
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spellbound. she'd taken them into the darkened mechanical room where she described how owen had raped her. now owen's attorney j.w carney was determined to break that spell. >> why were you cloudy? >> i was raped. i was violated. >> he was very clear that he was putting the credibility of the girl in question. >> you try not to lie as much as possible. >> i try not to. >> sometimes i guess you're unsuccessful. >> no. >> reporter: carney argued owen's accuser went willingly into that darkened mechanical room where she gave every sign that she wanted to make out. he confronted her with her own statements to police. >> he couldn't know that i was
laughing. are those your words? >> those are my words, yes. >> reporter: and continuing in the sentence -- i was trying to be cool. right? >> yes. calm, cool and collected. >> reporter: he insisted that the witness, in her own words to police, had described a hook-up with owen labrie that she found titillating. >> so you did like the attention from him when he was taking off your pants? right? >> no, i said i was excited. >> okay. you were excited when he took off your pants. is that more accurate? >> yes, and the word excited has many different definitions to me. >> cross-examining a young girl is one of the most difficult things that a criminal defense lawyer has to do. and when the person who is not being truthful is a young girl, you have to show that to the jury. and if it's necessary to protect yourself, to tell a lie, that
>> no, it does not. >> reporter: to the defense there was no proof of rape, no proof of a crime, no proof even that the two had sexual intercourse. owen's friend had testified that he had bragged about having sex with the accuser. but they also admitted that owen might have been chest thumping to impress them. >> in your experience as a high school student, maybe someone would say something happened when it really didn't. >> it's possible. >> reporter: why would he do that? >> one of the most unfortunate things that came out at this trial is the culture at st. paul's school. he wanted to be accepted by his classmates, and so when his friends asked him if he had actually had sex with the complainant, he was all too happy to boast even if it was a lie that he did have sex with her.
testimony you will -- >> reporter: to better explain to it the jury, the defense called its one and only witness to the stand. >> my name is owen labrie. >> reporter: he started by explaining the culture at st. paul's prep. and how crude talk about girls and sex was what all the guys did. >> kids at school, especially when talking about girls, would use pretty much exclusively slang. >> for example, hook-up, score, slay? were these types of words used daily at st. paul's high school? >> yes. >> reporter: all harmless fun, he said. like the school's senior salute ritual. he did not see it as a sleazy chance to score with younger girls. >> my understanding of the senior salute was an invitation sent toward the end of the school year either from an older student to a younger student asking to hang out before the
>> reporter: this was owen's chance to explain in calm, measured tones, the sequence of events that unfolded as he saw them. he said he only wanted, in those final hours at this school he so respected, to show a younger classmate something special. >> it's one of the tallest buildings on campus. so at night you look out, you can see all the dorms lit up. >> reporter: eventually they left the roof and together, he said, wandered into that darkened mechanical room. they started kissing. clothes came off. a blanket was thrown down. >> after a few minutes, you know, on the blanket, you know, she would be like on top of me a little bit, maybe like one leg between mine and we'd roll over and, you know, giggle or something. we took our shirts off. >> reporter: followed by their shorts. still, he insisted they managed to keep their underwear on. her bra never came off.
this point? or draw back? >> no. >> reporter: he admitted things got out of hand quickly. at some point he decided to protect them both. >> i was going to have sex with this girl, so i stood up and i walked over to my shorts, which were by the wall, and i reached into my shorts and i took out my wallet and i looked in my wallet and i took out a condom. >> reporter: but then, he insists,y had had a moment of clarity. he said he stood up and put a stop to it all. >> it wouldn't have been a good move to have sex with this girl. you know. and there were two nights left at school. it wouldn't have been a good choice for me, to me. >> reporter: he said they got dressed, kissed and parted. later in an e-mail, he typed, you're an angel. and she responded, you're quite an angel yourself. >> in the time after the encounter that night, both owen
affectionate toward each other. indeed, at one point she noted that she had lost her earring, ha, ha, ha. and owen responded, i'll go and look for it tomorrow and see if i can find it. this is not the interchange between a victim and her rapist. >> reporter: the defense told the court that it was only later when gossip spread on campus about their encounter that she panicked and cried rape. co-counsel sam zaganjori -- why would she then bring all of this up and put herself through torture of a trial and all of the now harm that she has had to >> on high school campus, rumor travels very quickly. this was her reputation or owen's reputation. >> reporter: owen labrie had finally gotten a chance to tell his version of events.
that's all i have. >> reporter: now, it was time for the prosecutor to question the defendant and a witness chair would soon turn into a hot seat for owen labrie. coming up -- >> did you lie to him? >> yes. >> which story was the truth? and who would the jury believe? >> for the first time you saw emotion in him, real emotion. >> the verdict. when dateline continues. starvation and frostbite. today we make history. >>bienvenidos! welcome to the south pole! if you're dora the explorer, you explore. it's what you do. >>what took you so long? if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. >>you did it, yay! my son and i used to watch the
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just a few miles from the privilege and possibility of the high school campus where they had met, on the second floor of the county courthouse, two teenagers had given unflinching testimony to a roomful of strangers. their wrenching stories about what happened the friday night of graduation weekend at st. paul's were so different from each other. >> you have the opportunity -- >> reporter: owen told the jury he hadn't even had sex with his 15-year-old classmate. >> it wouldn't have been a good choice for me to make. >> reporter: but that story of self-restraint which he had been telling to detectives and friends from the beginning was about to be tested publicly for the first time. the prosecutor went head to head with labrie in a testy cross-examination.
here to believe that after all that time spent thinking about her and having foreplay that you just stopped? >> i didn't just stop. we kissed some more afterward, but i didn't have sex with her. >> reporter: so the prosecutor asked why labrie had told his friends something entirely different. >> did you lie to them? >> yes. >> do you have a problem lying? >> yeah, you know, i really, you know, i wish i hadn't. >> it is easy for you to lie? >> no. >> reporter: then what could explain why he had deleted more than 100 facebook messages from his computer, the prosecutor asked. >> they were incriminating, weren't they? >> no. >> reporter: it would be up to the jury to decide who the real owen was. the perfect gentleman or the rapist who had stolen the innocence of his 15-year-old
after two weeks of testimony the case was in their hands. both families waited nervously. michelle and her son john who had taken owen in after he was charged were at labrie's side. they say he was anxious but serene. did he ever show anger at the things that were being said in court, that it wasn't according to his own version of the events of that night? >> owen never really demonstrated anger to me. >> that was the amazing thing about it. owen never once demonstrated any type of frustration or animosity towards the process, towards the people that were testifying. >> reporter: as for the accuser's mother, she was just as amazed at her daughter's resilience.
her. but being a pretty pure soul, she just wanted to do what was right all the way through. >> reporter: then after two days of deliberations, word came there was a verdict. owen labrie stood with his attorneys as the jury filed in. >> how say you, madam foreperson, how do you find the defendant owen labrie? >> reporter: labrie listened as the clerk read the first charge, that he had used a computer to lure his under-age accuser into having sex. it was a felony crime with severe penalties. >> guilty or not guilty? >> guilty. >> reporter: with those words, labrie went from high school graduate to felon and sex offender. the young man sobbed. >> for the first time in two weeks you saw emotion in him. real emotion. >> reporter: but he was acquitted of the three other felonies he faced, the counts of
>> you say, madam foreperson, that the defendant owen labrie is not guilty? >> yes. >> reporter: instead, the jury convicted him of misdemeanor sexual assault and endangering the welfare of a child. as the courtroom emptied, owen labrie reached for his mother's hand. he was granted bail until his sentencing. but his defense attorneys weren't done fighting. in addition to possible prison time under the communications decency act, labrie's conviction for using a computer to contact his victim meant that he would automatically have to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. >> this punishment is so unusual and cruel based on what owen did, that i think it should be overturned. >> reporter: so it's punishment that does not fit the crime in your view. >> absolutely correct.
had a surprising ally perhaps in katie tarbox, the st. paul's alum helped get the computer law passed 20 years ago after being sexually assaulted when she was 13 years old by a 41-year-old man she met online. she was shocked that law was being applied to the owen labrie case. >> the intent of that law was to punish pedophiles who were essentially going into like teen chat rooms posing as teenagers to lure vulnerable and innocent teenagers into situations that they didn't want to be lured in. >> reporter: some people have said that it's not fair that owen now will have to register as a sexual offender. >> i don't know why anyone would think it's unfair that an 18-year-old young man who purposefully targeted a young underaged girl for sex would be in trouble now.
unpunished. >> reporter: but in a hail harry motion filed at the courthouse, that's what the attorney asked the judge to consider, to spare him a lifetime as a registered sex offender. >> coming up -- another dramatic moment for owen labrie and another dramatic message from the victim at the center. >> i want the be safe again.
>> reporter: his defense had filed a motion asking the judge to set aside that felony conviction. the judge denied it. so as labrie sat in court for his sentencing yesterday, he faced the possibility of serious time behind bars. >> may it please the court -- >> reporter: his defense attorney pleaded with the judge to spare a young man. owen's only crime here, he said, was that he acted like a teenaged boy. >> the inescapable conclusion that one draws from the jury's verdict is that this was a consensual encounter by two teenagers. >> reporter: but the prosecutor, catherine ruffle, reminded the judge that the jury had convicted owen labrie for preying on an underaged girl. time in prison and treatment in a prison sex offender program were vital, she said. >> your honor, i ask you to take that into consideration because, again, that is such an important
rehabilitation. >> reporter: if that was your own son, an 18-year-old who made a stupid mistake, a stupid mistake you can possibly make, does it seem fair that he will pay for that for the rest of his life? >> he had several opportunities to accept responsibility and enter into negotiated dispositions that would have called for something less. he opted not to do that. >> reporter: and then it was her turn to speak. the young victim, now 17, at the heart of all of this. >> honorable judge -- >> reporter: in a video statement she told the judge that she pitied labrie, but he deserved punishment as severe as the one he had imposed on her. >> without just and right punishment, i really don't know how i'll put one foot in front of the other. i don't want to feel imprisoned for the rest of my life.
and i want justice. >> reporter: labrie seemed to brace himself just as the judge said he was ready to announce the sentence. >> i observe and believe that you are neither the angel that is portrayed by your counsel and the attached letters in your memorandum, nor the devil that is portrayed by the state. >> reporter: and with that, he imposed the sentence. >> you're going to do a year in the house of corrections. and probation. >> reporter: a year in jail, probation and registration as a sex offender. and the judge was quick to add he didn't believe that the girl had given her consent. >> she was in over her head. and that's very clear. >> reporter: but instead of being led away in handcuffs, owen labrie's mother grabbed him and sobbed.
home for now pending an appeal. >> i'm going to be handling the appeal for owen. >> reporter: his appeal lawyer says there's even a chance labrie will avoid jail altogether and clear his name as a registered sex offender. >> the best case scenario is that we win all of our issues on appeal, we come back to trial on the misdemeanors and we prevail there. that's the best case scenario. >> reporter: the family friend now says he can think about his future, whatever it may be. >> and i think that he really is looking forward to this finally coming to an end for him so that he can move on with his life. >> reporter: as for the victim, her mother told us her daughter finally feels vindicated. >> i was very satisfied that the judge acknowledged the extreme impact that owen labrie's actions had on my daughter.
daughter that this hasn't been >> reporter: i know that she feels she's a voice now for others who may feel like they don't have that voice. >> yes. and we're very, very grateful to the authorities here in new hampshire for treating her with the dignity and respect that they did from the very, very beginning. >> reporter: nbc news asked st. paul's for comment on this case. it declined. but in an earlier statement, the school did say the following. the entire st. paul's school community has been deeply affected by this incident. it is our responsibility to ensure that our students live and learn together in a community that is built on respect, caring and support for one another. in the end, says victims advocate, laura dunn, the st. paul's case can teach all of us a lesson. what do you take away from a case like this?
but the modern way of thinking, what everyone is saying is the best way of thinking about it, is yes means yes. if you don't have yes, guess what? you have a no. >> that's all for now. i'm lester holt. thanks for joining us. this sunday, the iowa caucuses. the candidates have had their say, now it's time for iowa voters to have theirs. can donald trump win here and just simply start to roll? >> i don't even think i have to campaign anymore. why am i even wasting my time? >> can ted cruz beat trump and turn this into a two-man race? >> the time for all that media noise is past. this is your time. >> what about marco rubio? does he finish second and become the chief challenger to trump? >> you see some deceitful things going on in the last minute.
rand paul are all with me here live. plus, what will the latest e-mail story do to hillary clinton's chances? >> i never sent or received any e-mail marked classified. >> can bernie sanders pull the upset and end the idea that her nomination is inevitable. >> they're going to throw everything they have at us. >> sanders joins us this morning. i'm chuck todd in des moines, iowa. joining me here for insight and analysis are tom brokaw of nbc news, jennifer jacobs of the des moines register, joy-ann read of msnbc and david brody of christian broadcasting network. cruz, rubio, paul, sanders, the candidates are all here. we're going to do our own caucus. welcome to sunday and a special edition of "meet the press." from des moines, iowa, this is a special edition of "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning.
the iowa ku kus caucuses. it all happens tomorrow night. we're here in des moines at the west end architectural salvage, a coffee shop that also sells custom and vintage furniture. and of course the candidates are here, all here, all over iowa selling themselves. in fact, on this last full day before the caucuses, the 13 candidates campaigning in iowa are holding 13 38 events making last-minute pitching hoping iowa will become the first step on the road to nomination. we couldn't be more excited or heavily caffeinated. stay tuned for our christmas eve of politics. we start with the latest bloomberg poll. put it up on the screen on the republican side, trump with a five-point lead over ted cruz, marco rubio in third at 15 and ben carson still in double digits at 10 with rand paul at 5. and the democratic race it's hillary clinton continuing to hold a nor row three-point lead over bernie sanders 45-42. we got a lot to get to this morning. hillary clinton e-mail story, later.
standing here at west end salvage, but we begin with senator ted cruz from texas by his own admission needs a win here in iowa to keep the trump campaign from being in his word, unstoppable unstoppable. senator cruz, welcome back to "meet the press.." >> chuck, good morning. good to be with you. >> your campaign i take it doesn't believe the des moines register poll. you believe you're ahead. what i found was interesting if you add up the other candidates that are going after evangelical voters, ben carson, mike huckabee, rick santorum, they're 14% if you add it to the 23% you'll be the runaway winner here. is ben carson going to cost you iowa? >> listen, at the end of the day this race was always going to come down to do conservatives unite. ten months ago you and i visited right at the outset. if you'd told me ten months ago that the day before the iowa caucuses we would be in a statistical tie for first place, i would have been thrilled and astonished. and we are thrilled and astonished. the question is going to come 36 hours from now, do conservatives come together? in past cycles what washington has always wanted is to splinter
if that happens -- >> you're worried about that a little bit. >> i'm always worried about it. the only way i know how to run -- there's the only joke, two ways to run, scared and unopposed. the only way i know how to run is scared. and we're going to run hard every minute. you know, tomorrow we're going to complete the full grass. we will have been to all 99 counties in iowa. we are campaigning one after the other asking for the votes of the men and women of iowa and focusing on the grass roots and ground game. >> you believe if trump wins here he's unstoppable? >> not necessarily -- >> well, you said it. our friend caught you on tape there. could be. that iowa his winning here would no doubt about it. hampshire. and the people of iowa if they want a strong principled conservative, the people of iowa can impact that powerfully 36 hours from now. monday night at 7 :00 p.m. and, you know, i think the stakes are too high to get this wrong.
sentiment you hear from people is they're frustrated with washington. they're frustrated with politicians. they say one thing and do another. we can't get burned again. and that frustration, the reason that i see conservatives uniting behind our campaign is they're looking for a consistent conservative, someone they can trust to be a fiscal conservative, a social conservative and a national security conservative. >> at the beginning of this month you led in the polls. donald trump went after you, sometimes viciously, okay, on various things. and it seemed to work. the reason trump's ahead is his attacks on you. are you tough enough to take a punch? >> oh, listen, anyone that has millions of tens of millions of dollars of attack ads run against them is going to have an impact. >> will you be able to survive a race with hillary clinton? >> absolutely. >> it's going to be tough. this is just two weeks. >> listen, the fact they're all shooting at me -- six weeks ago everyone shooting at trump. now all the republican candidates are shooting at me.
and i'll note, donald, you're right, six weeks ago donald thought i was terrific, i was praises. then his poll numbers started dropping. our numbers started surging. and suddenly he began blasting me, not on policy, not on substance but on personal insults and attacks. and, chuck, my approach consistently both before and after he started doing that is not to respond in kind. i think the people of iowa deserve better than insults. so my focus is policy and substance and record and who will be a consistent proven conservative. >> why did you suddenly stop going after trump on paid ads and going after in your campaign attack marco rubio? how concerned are you about senator rubio catching you here in iowa? >> listen, we are drawing contrast, both trump and marco are attacking me. they're attacking me with all their might. and we're drawing contrast. and the contrasts are clear. the contrasts by the way are substantive and policy based. a vote for marco rubio is a vote for amnesty. a vote for donald trump is a vote for obamacare.
marco rubio right now is a presidential candidate is advocating amnesty, advocating citizenship for 12 million people here illegally. and donald trump right now as a candidate is advocating full-on expanding obamacare to make it socialized medicine. donald trump and hillary clinton and bernie sanders have the identical position on health care, which is they want to put the government in charge of you and your doctor. now, my views are polar opposite opposites of both of those. if i'm elected there will be no amnesty, we will secure the border. if i'm elected we will repeal every word of obamacare. so that gives a clear and simple choice for the voters. >> let's talk about two issues here that seem to be potentially tripping you up here in iowa. one is ethanol. you are -- have come out against these subsidies. you've called it a grave ri train. a lot of iowans including the republican governor doesn't like it. i'm going to put these numbers, isn't it understandable why iowans like these subsidies.
more than 46,000 jobs, generated $2.5 billion for iowan households, a state with unemployment under 4%. this is an important part of their economy. >> absolutely. and, listen, my view on energy we should pursue all of the above. we ought to be pursuing every energy source. >> you'll be hurting their economy. >> but with no mandates and sub di u si -- subsidies. the people attacking me are lobbyists and democrats. his son is a lobbyist who makes hundreds of thousands on lobbying ethanol. his family makes a ton of money. the lobbyists very much want to keep iowa focused on the ethanol mandate because it keeps iowa dment dependent on washington. means every year they have to go back to washington and maintain the mandate, lobbyists get paid, politicians get paid. no subsidies for oil and gas, no subsidies for anybody. but the other piece that's very important and resonating is i'm going to also tear down the
means make it legal to sell mid-level blends of ethanol. and that in turn can expand ethanol share of the marketplace by 60% but not based on mandates and subsidies based on the free market. >> it's so clear you spent a lot of time in iowa look at you talking about mid-level fuel sales. at the end of the day, how does this not hurt the iowa economy? that's what governor branstad is saying. a vote for you is going to hurt the economy. >> but, chuck, the point i made this actually would expand the iowa economy. right now ethanol is banging into the rfs. it's essentially the blend wall is a cap. as people in iowa knownprv as i've traveled around and do town halls, ethanol's not expanding its market share because the epa is preventing it from doing it. by the way, no other candidate has pledged to remove the blend wall. no other candidate is focusing on the future for ethanol. and you know someone who joined me on my bus tour across the state, fellow named dave vandergrind, he built more than half the ethanol plants in the
he's the one who estimates you could see a 60% market increase. you know who's hurt by my plan? the lobbyists in washington and the people who are helped are iowa farmers and jobs here in the state of iowa. >> one final question, you talk about ronald reagan a lot. you talk about you want to sort of have a presidency like his. he famously had a terrific relationship with democrat tip o'neil o'neil. he got stuff done. are you and nancy pelosi going to be able to get stuff done? >> absolutely. >> how? >> in my entire time of the senate i've treated every member respect. >> i don't think mitch mcconnell would say that. >> as others attack me, i don't respond in kind. when donald trump calls me a canadian anchor baby, i don't respond with an yun insult. in fact, i'll sing donald's praises. i like donald. i think he's bold and brash. i think he's been too willing to get a deal and grow government and support cronyism, but that's
at the end of the day why was country? because he built a grassroots movement that reagan revolutioned that turned this that's what we're doing. we've got 12,000 volunteers in iowa and it's all about turnout. if conservatives want a principled conservative to not get burned again, they need to come out monday night 7:00 p.m. >> i'm going to leave it there. senator cruz, you have to finish the full grassley. my next guest florida senator marco rubio under sustained attack from the cruz campaign in recent days. in fact, take a look at this ad they put out on rubio's immigration stance. >> i am not and i will never support, never have and never will support any to grant blanket legalization amnesty. >> marco rubio was part of the gang of eight trying to secure amnesty. >> one of the architects of the plan senator marco rue yoeb bio. it was marco rubio a member of
that wasn't. >> and senator marco rubio joins me now. senator, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thank you. >> you just had a nice friendly hug with senator cruz there. that's not such a fraend iendly ad here. it goes to the issue of the gang of eight. >> actually -- no, no, let me -- >> can you explain the issue of amnesty? define amnesty? >> the ad is deceitful, actually talks about cap and trade, it stops my statement right when i start explaining that i'm against cap and trade and big government mandates. the gang of eight was a bill that was -- that's not -- that was dealt with three years ago as an effort to fix our immigration laws. it was the best that could be done in a senate controlled by harry reid at the time. the hope was that the house would take it up and make it better, but it was a way to start that. in the absence of progress that's how barack obama has now forced on america not one but two unconstitutional executive orders that seek to actually legalize people here with no enforcement. now, that's not the way we're going to do it when i'm president. when i'm president, when i'm the
majority in the house and senate and we're going to pass first and foremost immigration laws that secure our border. and until that is in place, we're not going to be able to do anything else. that's the lesson of the last ten years. the american people we do not have the political support to do it all at once. they do not trust the federal government to enforce immigration laws. and as a result the key that unlocks the door to make progress on illegal immigration is to bring illegal immigration under control first. and we will do that when i'm president. >> i've had a lot of republicans in iowa that i've talked to who really like you and then they say why won't he repudiate the gang of eight? >> that's not how we're going to
do it when i'm president. that's not going to be the law that we'll pass -- >> do you regret ever being involved? >> look, i tried to fix a problem. this is a real problem. where are we today? we are worse off today than we were five years ago. we have more illegal immigrants here. we have two unconstitutional executive orders on amnesty. i went to washington to fix a problem. immigration is a serious problem. it impacts my state and the
we are impacted by illegal immigration in a dramatic way. this issue has to be dealt with. each year it gets harder to solve, more difficult to
solve, but it is now clear more than ever before that you are not going to be able to do anything on immigration until you first bring illegal immigration under control and prove it to people. not just pass a law that says it and that's how we're going to do it when i'm president. >> you have eluded to the fact that majority is not yet sort of where you might be on what to do for instance with the undocumented. do you think this is what's holding your campaign back? that the difference between third and second or third and first for you is your immigration position? >> no, look, we had 11 people running for president that are running competitive campaigns. 11 people on the ground in iowa spending money, campaigning, working hard themselves to gain voters. so a lot of this is segmented right now. ted cruz is clearly the front-runner in iowa. he has 10,000 volunteers, spent millions of dollars here, got every endorsement he wanted. so we always knew that going in, but we feel really good about the progress we're making here. we have taken on more negative
candidate combined. jeb bush's soup uper pac basically spent a third of its money attacking me and yet we keep growing and feel positive about
it. we feel positive about what it's going to mean monday night in iowa and new hampshire. >> you brought up the cap and trade issue. i'll play the full quote of what you said. >> florida should position itself for what i believe is inevitable and that is a federal cap and trade program. florida should do everything it can to be an early come plier so it can access early compliance funds and help influence what that cap and trade looks like at the federal level. so i'm in favor of giving the department of environmental protection a mandate that they go out and design a cap and trade or a carbon tax program and bring it back to the legislature for ratification some time in the next two years. >> all right. we gave you full context there. >> no, you didn't. there's more after that clip. >> we'll explain. >> no -- >> it does come across as you're saying it's inevitable so florida has to prepare. >> but what you just played is not the full clip.
in favor of implementing it. i'm in favor of them bringing it back to the legislature. i do not support big government mandates. the context of that that was in 2006 and '07 when the leading candidates for president were john mccain, barack obama, hillary clinton. all three supported cap and trade. and i was the speaker of the house and i said there is a chance that the federal trade. i'm not in favor of it. but if they do, we have to be prepared to comply with that requirement even if we don't like it. and i don't want it to cost the state of florida money to have to comply. everyone knew it. the democrats knew that position. when charily christ proposed cap and trade, i was the first person to speak out of it in a full op-ed in the miami herald. right after that there's even more.
>> this gets at what sort of i think is the challenge for all of the candidates on both sides is you're basically saying, look, you got to sometimes govern with what you have, not with what you want. >> right. >> but the voters they want more than that. the voters seem angry. they're not satisfied with this
doing the you got to work with what you have in washington, not with what you want. >> you know, i don't think that's true. i think voters understand to solve problems it's going to take the ability to work with people you don't agree with on a bunch of other issues. i think people understand my higher education ideas, i think student loan debt in america is a huge problem. we're not going to have free college, but i think there's a bipartisan way to work on helping with student loan. that's why i work with mark warner on it and worked with other people on this sort of issue. there are issues that we're not going to agree on. repealing obamacare, that's why we have elections. so i think if there's a chance to work together and you don't have to betray your principles, you work together. but there are issues where you can't do that. that's why we have elections and debate and all those sorts of things in america. >> why are you the personally most popular republican candidate, pretty much here, you and ben carson here neck and neck, but overall nationally you have the highest favorable rating. why aren't you higher? >> again, i think it goes back to the fact there are now 11 people running for president of
i mean, these are not third-rate candidates. these are former governors, ceos of major companies, serious people. and former senator rick santorum. and they're campaigning hard. so you've got the voters have a lotd of choices. i think once the race narrows i feel pretty good about our prospects. >> that's the question a lot of your donors, where do you -- >> i'm running for president of the united states. >> but you need to win eventually. >> we will. here's how we win, we win by having more delegates than anybody else u anyone else and more than half the delegates. i'm confident we're going to achieve that. i don't think you're going to really get clarity on this race until the race narrows a little bit. >> what's a good night for you tomorrow? >> we want as many votes as we can. we feel real positive about what it's going to lead to. that expectation game for us we always knew we were an underdog in iowa. other people have a lot more people on the ground here, they spent more money, but we're going to have a good night. i'm excited about it. >> senator rubio, be safe on the trail. i think we'll see you in new hampshire as well.
democrats ready to vote for a 74-year-old socialist who's not even a registered member of the democratic party? we're about to find out. senator bernie sanders joins me in a moment. we were born 100 years ago into a new american century. born with a hunger to fly and a passion to build something better. and what an amazing time it's been, decade after decade of innovation, inspiration and wonder. so, we say thank you america for a century of trust, for the privilege of flying higher and higher, together. the flu virus hits big. with aches, chills, and fever, there's no such thing as a and it needs a big solution: an antiviral. so when the flu hits, call your doctor right away and up the ante with antiviral tamiflu.
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journalist. we have tom brokaw, jennifer jacobs, msnbc national correspondent joy-ann and david brody. david, i'm going to start with you because, look, ted cruz is make or break depending if he pulls -- but it's uniting evangelicals. >> it is. you touched on it in that interview. ted cruz goes around in all of these campaign stops and says we need if you're going to vote for ben carson, nice guy, but please don't. it goes on, mike huckabee and all these folks. if you actually add the numbers up, ted cruz runs away here in iowa with it. the problem is is that not only does he have to contend with the fact others will vote for carson and huckabee and others, donald trump is taking 19% as we see in the latest poll of evangelicals which i know is shocking for folks an excedrin moment for folks. >> we're trying to get a feel of
people, we've put a compilation torgt together of the voters i've spoken to. >> i'm for ted cruz because our country was founded on the bible and the constitution. >> if we ged ted cruz in there, they're going to start getting in line and doing what we need to get done. >> my second choice would be marco rubio. >> reporter: how do you feel about donald trump? >> i watch his show. but i don't know -- i'm afraid of what he might do once he's in office. >> reporter: why are you caucusing for trump? >> because he's going to make america great again. >> i think everybody's a little bit afraid. americans are afraid, the world is afraid. >> i hope he's tough on illegal immigration like he says. >> i believe he can keep our country safe. >> he is not politically correct. and i am fine with that. >> reporter: would you be caucusing if he wasn't running? >> probably not. i've never caucused before. >> reporter: how long have you lived in iowa? >> 49 years. >> there it is. buffalo bill hat guy there, he has lived here his whole life and has never caucused. and he's a donald trump --
show up. are they going to show up? >> well, you never know. it's interesting to me that ted cruz has all the high points in this des moines register/bloomberg politics poll. everybody likes him better than donald trump. they think he has the greatest knowledge and depth of experience. but donald trump is the guy that they think would be best to fight the u.s. enemies. and that's a big deal in this race. so, you know, everyone says that donald trump's organization is suspect. but people really have faith in him right now. >> and i think you can see, too, donald trump also has the most loyal backers. if you look at the polling, he's voters. they are sticking with him. that's why i think you're seeing more intramural fighting particularly between cruz and rubio because rubio's are among the least adherent. so i think what you're seeing with ted cruz is he's trying to not only take away the ben carson supporters but also go after those rubio supporters for whom he's actually the number one second choice. >> it's interesting, tom, put up the favorable ratings from jennifer's poll here.
the two most popular people, republicans, are the guys running third and fourth, ben carson and marco rubio. the guy in first is the least donald trump. it goes to the point, it's loyalty but not growth. >> it's loyalty within the republican party and within different portions of the republican party. i really think that a big piece of what donald trump has going for him is celebrity culture that we live in in america. and he is everywhere and comes in with that big airplane and people say i'd like to have a little piece of that. here's a guy running strongly among evangelicals married three times, he had affairs around the world with other people, he went broke a couple of times. they bore right through that. so we're playing in a different ballpark this year. >> well, it's a good point. i would say this, there's a huge block of evangelical voters that are the sick and tired evangelical voter, this election specifically those folks are ruling the day. you know, evangelicals are sick of being played as political pawns for years.
marriage amendment in 2004, if i can go back in history but george w. bush campaigned on that, told evangelicals to get out at the polls and karl rove dropped it like a hot potato. they believe donald trump will stick up for them. >> david, explain this, we were talking about this earlier. who -- is it a different evangelical voter that's for trump than -- is it different -- explain the difference. you were telling me there's a difference between the trump evangelical and the cruz evan evangelical evangelical. >> there is. there's a nuance there. first of all we know evangelicals are not a monolithic group. >> of course not. >> but a lot are identified evangelicals. i'm not trying to get on anyone's case, if you will, but look, the reality is is that there's a certain type of evangelical that votes for donald trump, a little bit more of a cultural christian if you will. but then there is the bible study, wednesday night service, you know, the ones that you're going to see at the potluck on sunday, that's the ted cruz folks. >> that's your cruz. >> those are the cruz folks. but look, the reality is donald
even some of those folks that go to service on wednesday night. he's crossing into both realms. >> last word, tom. loses here. where do those votes go? that's going to be critically important. three or four people drop out, 40% of the vote they represent, where do they go when it comes to new hampshire? so losing is as important as winning here. >> that's what iowa's all about, losing sometimes. and then winning. anyway, we're back in a moment. we're going to talk about the democratic race and the man who has defied all expectations. forget trump, let's talk about sanders. he's upended hillary krin clinton's expected march to the nomination.
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welcome back. to the democratic race where independent senator bernie sanders is running neck and neck with hillary clinton. he's counting on young enthusiastic reporters many whom never caucused before to turn out tomorrow and put him over the top. if they do likely so signal a new beginning for the nomination. senator sanders joins me from cedar rapids, iowa. thank you for joining me, sir. >> my pleasure.
importance of winning fsh your candidacy. is there a path to the nomination without you upsetting first? this. as you well know, when we began this campaign, we were at 3% in the polls. clinton. today as you've indicated we're neck and neck. i think we have a real shot to win this if there is a large voter turnout. and it's not just young people. it is working class people. it is middle class people who are sick and tired of status quo politics. that's true in iowa. it's true in new hampshire. it's true all over this country. so to answer your question, yeah, i think we really do have a path toward victory because people want to see this country boldly move in a new direction so that not all wealth and income is going to the top 1%. >> but don't you have to win iowa here if this is going to
>> well, there's no question, you know, that what happens here is very, very important. and if we can win and pull off a major upset, it will really be a springboard, i think, to other states. but at the end of the day i think in terms of division of delegates, whether you win by two points or lose by two points not going to matter a whole lot. but here's the point, we are running a national campaign. erer strong not just in new hampshire. we're gaining ground significantly in south carolina and nevada. we are strong all over this country. >> i want to play for you something secretary clinton said friday about your health care ideas and get you to respond to it. here it is. >> i don't want us to be thrown back into a terrible, terrible national debate. i don't want us to end up in gridlock. people can't wait. people have health emergencies can't wait for us to have some theoretical debate about some better idea that will never ever