tv Lockup Colorado MSNBC July 16, 2011 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
where some deals are signed in ink, and others are signed in blood. >> we got your crossways with some gang members. >> i was thinking about trying to protect my life. >> now a rare look at the schemes, hustles, and extortions conducted behind prison walls and the consequences they carry. >> i'm sure there's going to be repercussions. that's just the way prison life is. only the ominous
thunderheads that blanket the eastern colorado plains break up the stark, colorless confines of the limon correctional facility. a place where the comforts of home are a thing of the past. cells are cramped. hot showers, short and infrequent. the food in the chow hall is at best bland. if good behavior warrants, inmates may purchase a television for themselves or work at jobs that pay as little as 60 cents per day. but some inmates find more creative ways to raise their standard of living. they hustle. >> i just got these this past week. these sausages, man. they're so [ bleep ] good. look at them. >> at limon, ray slagle is king of the hustle. >> this is stuff that i want. [ bleep ] stuff that i want is different from any [ bleep ] that i need.
you know, the money that my people send me, i use that on stuff i need and phone calls. the stuff that i want i hustle. you know, and that's where these come in. tokens. >> tokens are purchased from the canteen, a place where inmates can buy snacks and toiletries with money they earn from their jobs or that family and friends deposit into personal debit accounts managed by the prison. >> every thursday whenever they get canteen, they can get up to 40 at the time. legally, the only things that we have for these is the soda machines and the ice cream machines. they're worth 45 cents. some of the name brand sodas is two tokens and the off-brand soda is 45 cents, one token. >> illegally they pay off each other. gambling debts they incur. you can buy drugs with these. there are so many things these can be used for illegally.
>> i love tokens. you know what i mean? yeah. what's going on? i'm telling them about my tokens. i tell them, man, i'm a hustling fool. you still owe me two tokens, too, ward! everything's a token, guys, honestly. want an onion or a pepper, you're going to pay a token. nothing's free. same with the cheese. i usually pay eight tokens to ten tokens for my box of cheese. look at this here. pepper jack. some of the guys get mad because i do cook that much. i want all the cheese. i buy it from the guys that work in the kitchen. a token. everything's a token. really. that's just how it is. >> so they'll steal food whenever they leave out of their work position and they'll take that to pay off a debt. >> just today alone, i made only six tokens, but this is my day off. you know what i mean? that ain't bad. >> how did you make six tokens? >> i sold three double cheeseburgers. you know what i mean? it ain't bad, but what the hell. >> how much was a cheeseburger?
>> two tokens. a double cheeseburger. i should have showed you one. double cheeseburger. that's two tokens. good deal. i can't even get them fast enough. i finagled those from somebody else who works in the kitchen. he owes me. we have a business arrangement. you know what i mean? i do [ bleep ] for him and all i want is two double cheeseburgers every day, five days a week. that's all i want. and then i take care of something he needs taken care of. >> slagle is not the only hustler at limon. other inmates tattoo, gamble for tokens, stamps and money orders. but there's one hustle that has a darker side than most. although it's common in prison, it's rarely spoken about. >> i think the worst hustle we deal with at limon is extortion. the gangs will try to extort the weaker offenders or sex offenders.
if they can't pay off what they're being extorted for, they generally get assaulted. so it has caused problems here. >> one of the gangs at limon known for this kind of extortion is 211. >> 211 is one of our notorious white gangs. >> it's homegrown. it's a colorado gang. 211 stands for a robbery code out of california. i don't know why they picked that up, but they did. their m.o. is they go after sex offenders. >> only a handful of my friends knew what my charge was. obviously, you keep it quiet. >> david laudone claims his status as a sex offender has made him a target of the 211 gang. and to make matters worse, while many prisons segregate sex offenders for their own protection, colorado policy is to integrate them into general population.
>> when these gang members moved into the pod, i respected theirs. they pick on the weak. i'm not a strong guy. a little up there in the age. so they immediately thought, you know, let's see what this guy is in for. so they asked me for my paperwork. i said, well i'm not going to show you my paperwork. then i had gone to tommy, who i knew was the head guy. >> tommy is tommy holloman who prison officials say is the leader of the 211 gang. >> i told him. i says, look, i'm not going to lie to you. i said, this is what i'm in for. i said it was on an ex-girlfriend of mine. i says, it wasn't on a child. i said, i'm not a piece of crap, i'm not a rat. he says, you know, yeah, okay. then he sent down one of his buddies and says tommy says you're all right. but what are you going to do for us? >> if they know that you're a sex offender or something else of that nature, then they will charge you rent to live here.
>> i pay rent by them giving me a list of canteen items that they wanted me to order for them. it was $25 a month. >> but it didn't stop there. on the day before the super bowl, laudone says he sent an underling, inmate jason wright to his cell with another order, to hide a batch of hooch, inmate-made alcohol. >> so i panicked when i had to do something illegal. even though i was told and forced to do it. i said no. i'm trying to make a stand. saying, you know, this is it. they came back down and says you got to do this. it's not an option. when i said no again, you know, got beat up. it was almost like the straw that just broke me. so i said, okay, i'll do it. >> but the next morning laudone turned the hooch into officers and told them he was being extorted by wright and holloman. >> a lot of sex offenders know who i am.
they know that these cos think i have a lot of pull. so if they're worried or scared about something, they're going to drop my name. you know, tommy and his bros are going to get me for whatever reason. and they have to do an investigation about it because there's like a threat of violence and extortion and things like that. >> as a result of laudone's allegations, holloman and wright were taken from their cells in housing unit number two and moved to administrative segregation, where they were locked down without their tvs, forcing them to miss the super bowl. the next day lieutenant jim fox, the prison's gang intelligence coordinator, took over the investigation. >> hey, little. hey, can you go down and pick up inmate holloman for me out of segregation? bring him to my office. we're probably unique in how we deal with the gangs out here. we've accepted the fact that there are going to be gangs and there's nothing we can do about
it, so we try to control, you know, what they do. and we use the leaders a lot to control that. most of our leaders here have done a lot of time in our maximum security facility. they don't want to go back. and we hold that over their head. we tell them to keep their people in line or they're the first ones that are going to go down, because we know how gangs work. we know this gang member isn't going to do anything unless he's got it cleared to the top. come on in, have a seat. so you want to give me your story? >> well, i mean, to be honest, i don't really have one. i mean, i feel like this dude is just trying to get out of trouble. he knows who i am and i go under the bus every time. >> who was the other guy? >> wright. >> the other one that got him -- >> yeah. >> was he doing something to him? >> no, i mean, maybe. i mean, everyone knew this guy was a piece of trash, but who knows, you know? i never even talk to this guy. never been to his house. >> i'll have to talk to this wright.
>> yeah. >> and see. >> he'll probably tell you the same thing i am. i mean, he don't know the dude. i mean, he's probably talked to him a few times. but that guy has his own circle of friends. nobody was messing with him. everybody kind of knew who he was but -- >> he's claiming that he was forced to hold that hooch. >> that's probably crap, man. >> my only warning to you is keep your hands off these guys, okay? >> all right. appreciate it. >> i can't make a decision now. because i haven't talked to the other two. but just from what i know now we've got nothing on holloman. all i've got is another inmate saying he thinks maybe he might have called the shot. the other individual, the sex offender is claiming he was assaulted. which there's hardly any marks on him at all. now we're going to have to take one inmate's word over another inmate's word. coming up --
super bowl weekend at colorado's limon correctional facility has brought about a drama that has nothing to do with sports. sex offender david laudone has told authorities he was forced to hide inmate-made alcohol or hooch, and has been a victim of assault and extortion. he has fingered one of the prison's most prominent gang members, tommy holloman, of ordering the crimes and inmate jason wright of carrying them out. correctional staff have methods of protecting those in danger. by identifying his inmates in
front of other inmates, laudone has made that hard to do. >> that's not how you handle things. you don't walk into the sergeant's office and point at other inmates and say them are the bad guys there. go arrest them. that's not how you handle things. not in a prison setting. i don't think he realizes how much peril he put himself in. >> holloman, wright, and laudone, himself, were immediately locked up in administrative segregation. after questioning holloman, gang intelligence coordinator lieutenant jim fox now moves on to the alleged assailant, jason wright. >> you probably know why you're here, huh? >> i don't, actually. >> you don't have any idea? why were you locked up? >> why was i locked up? >> why did you miss super bowl? >> i don't know. >> come on, dude. guess. give me your best educated guess. >> they didn't want me to see the game? >> that wasn't a good guess.
that wasn't a good guess. >> no? >> no. >> you're here for threats on another inmate, or actual assault on another inmate. how much did you have to do with that? or did you have anything to do with him? >> i had a little bit to do with him. i just told him, hey, put that in your house and everything's going to be good. >> so you told him to hold the hooch? >> yeah. >> you didn't threaten him, beat him up? >> no, he was all for it. he was like, i'm going to get to drink? i was like, yeah, and he was good to go. i didn't have to threaten him at all. that old dude, i'm not going to hit him. >> why did he get so scared? >> i'm not sure. >> well, you know what, we've had pretty good salmon out here with these s.o.s and haven't had a lot of trouble out of you guys. >> i didn't know he was an s.o. until he brought it up. because everybody was kicking it with him. everybody was like, no, dude's good, he's all right. >> so apparently he just got scared by holding the hooch and
went down and made up a story? >> yeah. >> because they never found no marks on you as far as you assaulting him or anything like that. there was hardly any marks on him. you're on radar. being on my radar isn't a good idea. >> no, i'm not trying to be on it. at all. >> go out there and maintain and stay low-key and leave people alone. take him back and bring the other one in now. >> wright is returned to ad seg as fox continues the investigation by interviewing the alleged victim, david laudone. >> this past weekend they wanted me to hold hooch in my room. and i said no. it was saturday. >> you flat-out said no? you didn't agree with it to start with and then get scared? >> i said no right off the bat. i said, i can't do it. this is from j. wright. he said, okay, hold on a minute. he went up and talked to tommy boy. he came back down. he said, you don't have an option. i said, i can't do it, j. he immediately said okay, he immediately got up off my locker
box and started beating on me. went down into the fetal position and he beat on the back of my head and my sides and my ribs. he said there's going to be more of that coming. don't leave your cell. >> anybody witness this assault? >> no. >> okay. >> so i said, okay, i'll do it. that's when they came down and made it, put it in my locker box, spent it overnight. that next morning i went into the office. i told the officer exactly what had happened and, you know, i had the hooch in my room and everything. i thought i was bringing it forward and telling the truth. >> well, you may be telling the truth. the other guy may be telling the truth. how do we figure that out? how do we know that? what makes me believe you over the other guy? not that i'm not believing what you're telling me. because i had one of them actually tell me that he told you to hold the hooch. he said i didn't touch him, but i told him to hold the hooch. you know, so -- >> i mean, it gives credit to my story, doesn't it? >> it's not that i don't believe
you. it's just i don't think you went about things very smartly here. >> i was thinking about trying to protect my life. >> there would have been better ways to handle it before it got completely out of hand, you know? we could have done something. moved you to another unit or done something. and you got so scared in your own mind that you had to go down and rat out inmates right in front of inmates. that's made things very perilous for you. that was completely dumb. because it got you -- got you crossways with some gang members. that's going to be our problem now. how are we going to try to keep you safe? and i'm guessing you've got a few years yet to do. >> trying to get me over to fremont. >> well, we'll put you wherever we can. but you just have to realize, you know, how much trouble you've got yourself into. you don't need that. okay? >> yes, sir. >> all right. >> while laudone might appear to be the victim of a prison gang,
lieutenant fox suspects he might be running a hustle of his own. >> i've heard out in the yard that laudone is a room master is what they call him. so he was apparently helping them guys or showing them the best way to do this. my guess is still that they found out friday night about his crime and he's been hiding it for about two years. and i don't know how it come to life, but it did. that's why he ended up checking in the way he did. >> fox also thinks laudone might have created his problem with holloman as a way to get transferred to another prison. >> since june i've been trying to deal with trying to get out and get over to fremont. >> i think he's smart enough to know that if he points a finger at the leader of the 211 lineman and says he's a bad guy that he's going to get locked up and moved. i'm sure there's going to be repercussions. i mean, that's just the way prison life is.
when ray slagle isn't hustling, he's often working out. all the better to show off his many tattoos. >> i never really got them as far as for viking. that's how i feel. upsidedown who shoe, my luck is running out. clock, i'm doing time. everyone's got that. this one here is -- i think that's from heroin, when i got out of prison. that symbolizes the horse coming out of the swing and i'll never go down that road again. and on my back, see all those tombstones -- they were all my partners, all my buddies.
>> but one of slagle's oldest and best friends in prison, walter walker, is very much alive. and the two men share more than tattoos in common. >> he's a hustler too. that's what i like about him too. he's on that level, too. we ain't on the phone [ bleep ] crying to our people for money or this and that. he hustles. every time i turn around he's trying to get tokens from me. it's the truth. you know it. every time i turn around, he's like, check this out, and i'm like, no, stop right there. >> got to survive. i live comfortably in my cell. as comfortable as possible, as comfortable as you're going to get in there. >> walker's road to comfort comes through his underground trade as a prison tattoo office. >> mother's day is coming up. valentine's. i'll make a killing. but no more tattoos for a little while.
i dry that one real quick with a pen. that's like an hour and a half right there. i'll do that for five bucks, six, seven bucks, something like that. i could do much better than this. it's just people don't want to pay, you know what i mean? so the lowest prices i'll give them, i'll give them low quality. not that i'm a [ bleep ] but, you know, you get what you pay for in here. >> but tattooing is strictly against prison rules. >> tattooing is always a big deal at prisons. the inmates use it as a way to make money. it causes us big problems just from the health standpoint because they spread diseases such as staph infections or hepatitis by tattooing. >> as a result, correctional staff keep a close eye on walker. >> my control officer called me
down in the office and said there was something unusual going on in the cell in the second tier of b-pod. so i went up to that cell, and the two inmates that were in the cell didn't belong there. one of them was walter walker. being that they weren't where they were supposed to be, i decided to strip them out and find out what was going on, and mr. walter walker had a bottle of tattoo ink on him. which he finally gave over when i started to do the strip-outs. and at that time, he realized i was going to have to write a report on him for having tattoo paraphernalia. >> and i would put some more over here that would go all the way -- >> what's the image, though? >> this is the one i was going to get. wages of syd. right? coming up -- david laudone's case takes an unexpected turn. >> when you go back in your cell you need to sit there and think
in a prison where it seems most of the inmates have a hustle, there are some who hold legitimate jobs. >> this here is power sewing at limon correctional facility. they do everything here from t-shirts, greens, socks, boxers. they got flags they do here. >> when i look at the tv and i see the american flag, i know exactly how they're made because i make them. so there is about 12 steps to the flag. 9/11 happened. that's when we made like a whole bunch of these flags and it was kind of special being able to do something for society to help them heal. and we made -- it felt like we
made a million of these. you try to grab ahold of something that makes a difference. and doing this makes a difference. >> some inmates see their prison jobs in less patriotic terms. for ray slagle, it's a chance to work one of his hustles. >> i work in the laundry and deal with the inmates on a daily basis. these guys all want to go looking good for their families to visit. really. you know what i mean? if you go to the laundry, 90% of the time you're not going to get it. not new. you're going to get stuff that's serviceable. you say, i need a pair of visiting clothes and it's going to cost you 16 tokens. and if you have a problem with that, then you're not going to get it. >> exchanging vending machine tokens for fresh prison clothes is one thing. but two other inmates have been accused of a far more serious hustle. tommy holloman, identified by
prison officials as the leader of a white gang called 211, and jason wright, have both been accused by convicted sex offender david laudone of several serious offenses. laudone says he was beaten and forced to store hooch, homemade alcohol. laudone also says he's been extorted, forced to buy $25 a month in canteen items for holloman and wright. but lieutenant fox feels laudone's story doesn't add up. >> i went back and pulled your canteen records. and he spent like $96 since the first of december on canteens. holloman spent $292 and wright spent $266 on canteen, so that story is not washing with me. wright did admit that he talked with laudone and laudone agreed to hold the hooch as long as he got to drink some. of course, laudone's story was no, they beat me up and made me hold it.
you know? >> of course. >> there's no doubt he's scared about something. don't know what it is. i have no idea what he's scared of. whether it's a gambling debt or whether it's something to do with the super bowl. he's truly scared to the point that he turns in and fingers at the 211 leader here. you know? he knows that's a death sentence. regardless of what it is, he's going to have to leave this facility. >> yeah, he's done. whatever facility he goes to. >> holloman, wright, and -- just those two happy cats for now. >> for now, holloman and wright will be sergeant jay thomas' problem. >> holloman is -- i saw him up there on the third tier. he's the ginormous one. >> after spending three nights in segregation they have been returned to unit two, a cell block already populated with several other 211 gang members.
>> holloman and wright are two guys that i want to keep together. well, they're known 211 members. you think if you have all of one group in one area it seems like, okay, there's too many of them in one group. but they're actually much more manageable that way. they're happier that way. which makes me happy. well, well, well. my favorite two. so here's what going to happen. ready? >> yeah. >> over there. you know where you're going. where? >> yeah. >> where? >> 23. >> happy? >> to avoid moving too many other inmates holloman and wright will have separate cell assignments but are hoping that sergeant thomas will negotiate. >> there's no way to move sebastian? just escort him down to 2-3? >> look, there's church and
there's unicef and the pope and there's me. i've given all i can give. no, i've given all i'm going to give. you two stay together. everybody's happy. i know i am. >> 2-3. >> 2-3. god bless us all. >> lieutenant fox had a reason for releasing holloman and wright from segregation. >> the main reason i wanted to get them out as soon as possible is to lesson the impact they're going to have on the guy. laudone did pretty much everything he could to ruin his life in prison. and i did everything i can. i mean, i've talked to him, i've tried to get him come clean with us. i've kicked these guys out of seg. hopefully that lessens some of the impact on him. >> oh, i'm sure it will. >> lieutenants piper and fox have decided to question laudone again. but first, laudone asks to speak to piper alone. >> i'm feeling that nobody is on my side. i understand the predicament i put myself in.
at the time i thought i did the right thing going to the officers and laying it all out there. >> and pointing out the shot caller? >> right. >> and the shot caller never put hands on you? >> no. >> and you thought that was correct? >> at the time, yes. i mean, because, you know -- >> you've got to know number, dude. you know that's never correct. especially if he didn't put hands on you. here's what we're going to do. we're going to go take a walk. we're going to go talk to lieutenant fox. >> okay. >> okay? >> he's going to be mad. >> you think? >> probably. >> how come? >> i don't know. maybe waste of his time. >> i'm not believing a word you have to say.
i mean, nothing corroborates with cameras. nothing corroborates with the canteen. i pulled the canteen. you're talking about you're giving them guys a $25 sack every month. well, them guys order way more canteen than you ever did. probably two months that i looked at, you didn't even order a $25 sack. you might have ordered $30, but $15, $18 of it went to phone time. so you didn't have anything to give them. >> i usually ordered for myself the last week of the month for me and then the payday month, i usually would order for them. the payday week. >> okay, well, that's just not washing with me. so i'm going to go back and do a little bit more investigating on it and i'm going to look on it. you need to go -- when you go back in your cell, you need to sit over there, maybe you want to tell me the truth and tell me what's going on. >> let's go, dude.
>> i've been totally honest with them from step one. i had gone through all the procedures. i spoke to everybody. and for them to not believe a single word i was saying -- i'm lost. now, you know, my fate is almost in their hands. well, as he said, you know, talking about one of the highest shot callers around, that i put in the hole for a couple nights. not going to go over lightly. and i'm sure, you know, revenge somewhere down the road is going to have to be dealt with or met or something. you know, you hear stories of a guy getting out of the hole and stabbing somebody that was taking a shower. you know, you hear those stories. so, yeah, that scares me. coming up -- >> i enjoy cooking. i love it.
ray slagle might be known as one of the more prolific hustlers at colorado's limon correctional facility. >> i don't want to see you on that -- >> no, no, i'm not. >> but he thinks of himself as more of an artist, a culinary artist. >> i enjoy cooking. i love it. it's just, you know, i've always loved to cook. see, there's some good chunks of fish there. you get this soup packet out of this pea soup, put it over the
fish, spread it out nice and evenly, then you put a scoop of this and a little bit of this on the fish. i just eyeball that. tastes real good. flavors up the fish real good. you'd be surprised. this dental floss will cut there anything. and what i like to do is put about three chunks of cheese and put it in the bottom with the fish. that oil does something and makes that fish taste so much better. it's a little secret there. honestly, it really comes out a lot better when it's like that. then you cut up uh the sausage and put that over the fish and put your onion and pepper, of course. i'm going to cut this up real quick. put this cheese on the top. and when you cook it up in the microwave waive, it won't stink up the whole pod, especially in here, you don't want to be disrespectful. so that's the main deal right there. this cheese on the top here. i like a lot of cheese, you know? some people may not want to put as much, but do put some cheese on there. yeah, this is good. old walker, he's going to like
it. he's been asking me for a while, i've been putting him off. i'm like, ah, bro, i hand it to you like i'm catering to you. i ain't going to lie to you guys, that's tasty. >> today, walter walker is the lucky recipient of slagle's gastronomical undertaking. >> you can have the fork. that's what i was telling me. the first thing he was asking me, can i keep the fork? ah, he got me for a fork! >> this is [ bleep ] hot, though. >> make sure you blow on it. >> hey, no, don't mix it in. you've got to eat it in layers. when you start mixing it in layers, when you go to heat it back up -- hey, though, seriously, though, eat it in layers. if you mix it up -- >> this is good!
>> listen to me, bro, walker, if you mix it up, you go to heat it back up, it will turn to oil. so eat it in layers. >> the trick is to get a little cheese in every bite. >> exactly! exactly. cheese in every bite. >> so quality. >> the trick is to get a little cheese in every bite. and that's the truth. but he goes and mixes it up like. it will turn that cheese into oil and it will taste like crap. you know, it won't stick right. hey -- >> i'm [ bleep ] good, all right. >> go like this. >> comfort food is exactly what walker needs. he is about to face the disciplinary board for having been caught with tattoo ink. >> i'm going to plead guilty. the officer actually told me he wasn't going to write me up, so maybe that will go in my favor, you know what i mean? because i gave them the ink. they were going to probably get it anyway, because he was about
to strip me down. i was already down to my boxers and i had it, like, tied around my boxer area. >> what would you have to tie it to? >> i had to tie it around my [ bleep ]. can i say that on tv? >> you just did. >> all right. well, that's where i had it. so i took it off and gave it to him. >> our producer also noticed a difference in walker's appearance. >> it's that piece i was telling you about. it's not done yet. see it? i had it last time. you didn't see it? it's old. it's like three years old. no. it's fairly new, i guess. a few days. you going to get me -- you're incriminating me here. >> walker's guilty plea to the ink charge makes for a brief but revealing hearing. >> lieutenant, he pled guilty to the charge. do you have anything to add? >> i'm going to go ahead and
submit the evidence at this time. tattoo ink in a handy carrying case. i was just curious as to how old some of the tattoo work on his neck was. it looked a little fresh. there's -- >> yeah, it's old. it's, like -- >> like a week? >> like before this. this is about a week. >> how come it still looks a little red? >> because this is a real tender area right here. this is like a real painful area. >> did it hurt? >> this is a cross. >> oh, that goes all the way down? >> yeah. time to get in touch with my religiousness. >> okay. wear a rosary or something. >> i am. this is old. >> it's not that old. >> it's one of the ones that i -- >> looks good. >> thanks. >> the disciplinary board gives walker 30 days of loss of privileges.
he be be without his tv, the ability to order food from the canteen and other restrictions, along with 90 days' probation, meaning he will avoid being locked down in administrative segregation if he behaves. >> i try to stay away from this whole side of the courtyard. >> yeah, don't get caught. >> all right. thanks. i don't like that probation, [ bleep ], man. i don't like that. i just need to finish my [ bleep ]. that's all i'm concerned with. i've got to focus. i'm on a mission. a tunnel vision. i got a lot of stuff i need to finish. i need to finish my whole back. my sides. and my whole neck and stuff. >> how? >> slowly, meticulously. >> are you going to wait 90 days or what? >> no, i'm going to wait for a long time. years. maybe. maybe i'll see you next time. you know, you never know.
most of these inmates have been on every yard or they know people in every yard. if they want him, they'll get him. >> limon inmate david laudone has felt like a marked man for nearly a month now. he had gone to authorities and reported ha two other inmates were extorting him and forcing him to violate prison rules. one of the men is tommy holloman, the leader of a prison gang known as 211. the other, jason wright. but now only one of them remains at limon. >> we went on lockdown.
and they shook tommy down and his cellie. it was a long shakedown, too. it was probably over an hour. maybe even longer than that. >> we had information that he was involved in drugs. we sent staff over to shake his cell down. and they found what tested positive for meth. >> they took him to the hole that night. two days later he was gone. they moved him. >> we just figured it was better to get holloman out of the cell and out of the picture because his name just keeps coming up. every time something seems to be happening and we get to the bottom of it, it leads to him. he's got enough clout that he can always have one of his cronies take the rap for it. it's best to give him a new start somewhere else. we'll see who floats to the top here in the 211. >> one of my friends told me that tommy had got moved out
like a day or two, last week, or whenever it was. i don't think that would change my security here in this facility. because i know it's out there, whatever they told their friends that are still in the facility. >> he's isolated to where nobody can get to him. he's still slated to be moved out of here because of the accusations he made against 211 put him in jeopardy. >> part of me says of course they wouldn't move me to the same facility they move this guy or this guy, but then i've heard it happen before also. so that worries me. if he just comes to us saying i'm a sex offender or whatever, people have found out, they're mad at me. we would have moved him to another unit and kept working and him trying to get him back in here. so he knew this was a way out of here. >> my next step, what i have to deal with, wherever i go, to
make sure i'm put in a proper area of the facility where i might not have to deal with this situation. and then, you know, looking over my shoulder. >> he made mistakes in here and out on the streets. as far as i'm concerned no day should go past where he's not tormented and harassed daily. i'm sure that will happen without me being around, you know? to what extent? i don't know. >> 211 pressures people. there's no doubt. i mean, they're a gang. that's what they do, but in that case, just nothing added up. you know, from years of my experience, there's a lot easier ways to check in than the way he did it. he's got a lot of time to do, and checking in the way he did, he jeopardized himself for the next 25 or 30 years. >> it's like i got a big bull's-eye on my chest now, and it scares me.
of course, the most fear is that i'll get stabbed or killed. >> what am i supposed to do? i can't let him slide. if i let him slide then everybody else has got to slide. if i let him get away with telling on me all the other dudes think they can tell on me. >> so what's going to happen to him as far as you're concerned? >> i don't want to answer that.