tv The Daily Rundown MSNBC July 18, 2011 6:00am-7:00am PDT
plan. the house battles over a balanced budget amendment out in the open, while behind closed doors, senate leaders hash out the real plan on the debt limit. both sides say it's time to get something done, but expect a week of show votes. and the no tax man cometh. perhaps no one has had more sway than republicans in this fight than grover norquist. he's here to dish on the debt and deal in taxes. and big money, big problems? mitt romney's campaign is debt free, but where is all that money coming from? we'll tell you why it could add up to a little bit of trouble for the republican front-runner. good morning, it's monday, july 18th, 2011. i'm chuck todd. just 15 days until default day. let's get right to my first reads of the morning. it's a week of public spectacle and private wrangling. efforts to get a big debt deal done has failed. >> when you look in the past at agreements between divided
government, it's taken leadership on both sides. it took reagan and o'neil. it took clinton and gingrich. the president is out there. he's willing to do it. he said it in the state of the union, he said it in the budget. the question is, do we have a partner to work with? and i hope the answer to that is yes. >> this week we'll see a two-track process. publicly, leaders will get a few votes out of the way to allow conservatives to get on the record on a balanced budget amendment and set the table that nothing besides the final deal can pass. meanwhile, while the real action will be behind the scenes with senate leaders mitch mcconnell and harry reid wrangling over what that final deal will look like. white house folks are involved in this, including some folks from the house republican side being told back and forth what's being put in here. already, we're hearing more than $1 trillion in cuts for the next ten years are being proposed, and that's by the democratic side. so we'll see how house democrats react to what some democrats want. one guy who still has a big job to do, speaker john boehner wants to get enough house
republicans to vote for a deal to save face and avert default. conservatives are not exactly enamored with any part of the mcconnell plan. here's jim jordan, chairman of the conservative republican study committee. >> the mcconnell plan doesn't have 218 republican votes, no way. who knows if there's a combination of rs and ds he'll go for, but i'm telling you house conservative members, they're not going to support the mcconnell plan, i'm not going to support the mcconnell plan. >> that's on sunday. the question is, where will these folks be on thursday and friday when they see the balanced budget amendment can't get through? and is eric cantor at john boehner's side when he ea's basically saying, okay, steny hoyer, let's find the votes. tomorrow, the house will vote on the cut, cap, and balance pageant which cuts the deficit and amends the constitution to require a balanced budget amendment, has virtually no chance of passing the senate, especially since there is a two-thirds majority not just to get the amendment itself pass,
but included in it, to get any revenue increases ever, you would need a super majority. that might not fly. meanwhile, leaders are on the same page in other aspects of this, saying privately what the white house is saying publicly, that default would be a disaster. >> notwithstanding the voices of a few who are willing to play with armageddon, responsible leaders in washington are not. the president referred to it as an armageddon. >> there will be a fringe that believes that playing with armageddon is a good idea, but i don't think that's where majority will be. >> and we know republican leaders are saying there's not going to be default. the question now, how big does the spending cut package have to be to get enough republicans that bayne her go to the floor? >> finally today, the president is supposed to be naming a new head of the consumer financial protection bureau. the new consumer agency charged with sorting through, among other things with, that ten-page statement you get with your credit card offer. but could he really be playing u.s. senate recruiter?
the president announced yesterday that elizabeth warren, who appointed last fall to set up the consumer agency until a director was named, will not get the job. instead, will go to former ohio attorney, richard corddry. that leaves warren free to run for the u.s. senate and possibly challenge scott brown for his massachusetts senate seat. there are a lot of democrats who believe the only way that scott brown can be defeated is by recruiting a big-name democrat with a national fund-raising network. and if victoria kennedy is not there to run and she has all but said she's not there to run, the only other person they can come up with is elizabeth warren. keep a very close eye on that as we come up. all right. governors say the budget debate is a lose/lose proposition for them, whether it's through federal spending cuts or a failure to raise the debt ceiling, either way, governor says they'll have to do more with less. with us now, martin o'malley, with the democratic governor's association. you are governor of one of the eight states that has a aaa
credit rating. maryland, virginia, iowa, delaware, north carolina, and utah. but when you got your credit rating reaffirmed, there was a warning that came with it. tell us about the warning. >> it was one of these good news/bad news e-mail, chuck. and my budget director says, good news. because of the tough decisions we've made, we've had our aaa bond rating reaffirmed. the bad news is, all the bond rating agencies are coming back around in the next couple of weeks to all those aaa states, the eight of us, to discuss how a national federal default would affect all of the bond ratings of the states. when we were together in utah, all governors were talking about this. there was a cloud over the national governor's association. and it was the extremism that is keeping a resolution from happening of this debt ceiling issue. >> is the assumption if there's a default even for a day or two, but, of course, enough to shake the credit markets, that all of you will lose your ratings? >> i don't know that that is
exactly so. but i can tell you this. for states that are about to go out in the bond market and sell those bonds so that we can rebuild our infrastructure, rebuild schools, roads, and bridges and the like, it will mean that we are going to have to pay more in order to make those sort of capital expenditures. at least in the short-term, if the more moderate and fiscally reasonable voices in the republican party aren't able toe merge out of this debate. >> whatever comes out of it, it seems that default will be averted. that there's enough people -- >> i hope so. >> the leadership is trying to come up with a way to get anything passed. there'll be a lot of budget cuts. another $1 trillion in budget cuts. obviously, you don't know the details of what those cuts are going to be, but it's going to have some impact on the state. what's your response going to end up having to be? how likely would you have to raise taxes or borrow more money or go into more debt? >> it's hard to say at this point, which is why the democratic governor is urging that we be mindful of the most important thing facing our
country right now, which is the jobs recovery. not stalling it further, not killing the jobs recovery. we have to manage between, if you will, sort of, two rocks in our path. one of them is needlessly driving the country into default. the other is needlessly driving us into really damaging cuts that would trigger massive job layoffs in the public sector, and you can kill the jobs recovery, as fragile as it is, you can kill it in either of those two ways, chuck. that's the balance here. >> i want to go to the pension aspect. you brought it up. it is one of the other reasons that you -- if you ever lose your aaa rating, your pension liabilities. what is your plan? you've seen what other states have done, some like wisconsin, but even in new york state or what california's trying to do. are you going to be cutting benefits? do you think at the end of the day that you're probably going to be cutting benefits for what andrew cuomo calls the unborn public sector employee? >> what we were able to do in
maryland was something that did not make a lot of headlines, because we didn't bash unions, we didn't belittle teachers, a the governor of new jersey does when he goes about pension reform. we asked all of our public employees to pay another 2%. so our public employees now make a 7% contribution. we, on the employer side, the state side, also have made an additional contribution. nobody liked that it wasn't popular, but we actually got it done in this session. so we actually have a pension system that is defined, that is sustainable, albeit, one where we've had to scale back some benefits and we've also had to ask people to pay more. >> what have you done differently on medicaid cup, that's going to be another one that the federal government is probably going to promise less matching funds. >> this is a interest of great interest to democratic governors. depending on how those cuts come down in medicaid will very much affect the jobs recovery. we believe and have put forward proposals to save the $100
billion that the president wants to save in medicaid by better managing those citizens that are dually eligible for both medicare and medicaid. but there's almost like a ping-pong process that takes place with these dual eligibles. they get the most expensive care going back and forth between nursing homes and hospitals, and also some of the lowest quality of care. so we want to manage that, we bring about those cost savings over a ten-year period of time. >> and medicare doesn't want them, so they kick them off to medicaid? because maybe they don't have any money left, they're 85 years old, and even if they're from a family with means, they don't have the means? >> sort of a perverse system of incentives. in other words, because medicare and medicaid are somewhat separate, when they interact with the same individual, the notion that the person is leaving one to go into hospitals on the other, means you don't realize where the cost savings are. it may seem like you're saving medicaid --
>> but you're only saving money on your own -- >> you're really just shoving it over to medicare. so if you put them together and manage it in a more holistic way, you can improve care and bring down costs. >> very quickly, what was the mood like in utah? >> the mood in utah with was one of great apprehension about the jobs recovery. and about the danger here in washington if the dinosaur wing of the republican party continues to be so intransigent and inplexable when it comes to resolving the basic math that every family and business needs to -- we need a balanced approach that needs to protect this job recovery and gets us into a better era. >> governor martin o'malley, got to leave it there. thank you for coming on this morning. up next, a man who wields a vast amount of power. grover norquist, the creator and enforcer of the pledge to end all pledges, the pledge against
all tax increases. he'll be here. could a balanced budget amendment force states to raise taxes? has it? and why deficit hawks may have to steer clear of his pledge. and still to come, the news corp phone hacking scandal keeps getting bigger and the casualty list keeps getting longer. first, a look ahead at the president's schedule. as we noted, he appoints the new head of that consumer protection agency today. and a person who's not named, elizabeth warren. you're watching "the daily rundown" on msnbc. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.
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americans to pay their fair share. or without taking on loopholes that give special interests and big corporations tax breaks that middle class americans don't get. >> well, that was the president trying to keep pressure on, for his weekend radio address, but it looks like congress has lost its appetite for any sort of big deal. right know the question is if there's any scenario under which conservatives in the house will vote to increase the debt ceiling and whether there will be legislation where they're needed. grover norquist is president for americans for tax reform, the most famous pledge now, i think we all know. and we're going to have another discussion down the road about this idea of all these groups climbing on to the pledge world. >> it's only one pledge. >> okay. tell us specifically about the pledge. because there's two parts to it. >> sure. look, the pledge says, it's a commitment by somebody who's running for office or in office -- >> and you ask anybody who's running for office down to what level? >> federal and state. >> okay. >> some towns and cities have done it themselves, but we put a
unified pledge -- >> for state legislature and up. >> it's the same wording. if somebody says, fred took the pledge in kansas, you know what he means. it's not different for different states. >> and won't raise taxes? >> won't raise taxes. for the income tax at the federal level, it says, i won't raise rates unless rates come down. it's a way to make sure bob dole conn get around the pledge when we wrote it 25 years by quote/unquote broadening the base, getting rid of deductions or credits in a way to raise revenue. i'm in favor of tax reform which is getting rid of many deductions and credits and having a significantly different tax rate on the individual side and business side. >> it sounds like if you eliminated loopholes and you lowered the rate and -- >> dollar for dollar. >> and it did -- see, that's right. and it did increase revenue. if there was a net revenue increase to the government, you would be against -- >> that's a tax increase. >> on somebody. even if it's a loophole, even if
the rate is going down overall. >> this is overall. this is looking at all taxpayers, or you're taking more or less money. certainly with some tax reform, somebody who had a tax advantage before -- >> somebody's going to be paying more money. >> the test is total tax revenue. not how it affects fred. >> it's total tax repeats. so you have said that the deficit -- this is what you told david gregory last week. you said it is a misdirection that that really shouldn't be the focus. so i read that and i said, okay, so if the deficit is the number one issue for you, and not over and above spending, then they shouldn't sign your pledge. you're saying, don't use the tax code to try to bring down the deficit? >> the problem that we have as a country is the federal government is spending too much money. the problem isn't the deficit. the deficit is the difference between two important numbers. how much money the government spends and how much it takes by force and taxes. the difference between those two numbers, that's not the key thing. the key thing is total government spending. that's the deadweight cost of
government. if the government spent $100, took $90 by taxes, and borrowed $10, you would solve what problem by taking all $100? would you free up resources for the private sector? no. deadweight cost to government is total spending. that's what this debate is about here. obama wants to say, you know what the problem is? the peasants are sending enough cash to pay for my government, we should raise taxes. no, the problem is you're spending too much. >> if the deficit is one of these problems that's coming and you've got a solution that is four to one, four to one in spending cuts. and i know there's a lot of skepticism, with you who's got a listening memory of '82 and '90. but at some point, if you feel like you could verify the 4 to 1, a trust but verify the 4 to 1, could you live with that? >> get rid of the spending restraint, take the tax increase, and move forward. >> if you want to get rid of the deficit, to do this over time.
and if you get rid of it, you have more of a chance of cutting spending long-term, do you not? >> the goal is to reduce total government spending, not to focus on the deficit. raising taxes does not do anything to help cut spending. raising taxes is what obama and other democrats do instead of cutting spending. they say, we don't have to cut spending, we can raise taxes. no. it's all about spending. >> were you concerned when you heard speaker boehner was doing a grand bargain with the president? >> no, because speaker boehner, one, has taken the pledge and always kept it as a congressman. he leads a caucus in the house of representatives, where all but six republicans have made the commitment in writing never to raise taxes. he knows he leads a republican party that's not going to raise taxes and that he personally is committed to that as well. >> if he signed on to a grand bargain that included some sort of revenue increase, what would you have done? >> well, he would not sign on to a deal that raises taxes. he's said it 100 times. i know some people keep asking it different ways. advocates of more spending keep
asking republicans whether they might be open to a tax increase the way a teenage boy asks the same question on a prom date. but the answer is no. no. no. >> all right. are you convinced balanced budget amendments can prevent tax increases? isn't there an argument that a balanced budget amendment, that have taken place in the states, has actually forced the hands of split government control to raise revenues? >> interestingly, people talk about the role the taxpayer protection pledge has played nationally in washington. this last year, it has stopped tax increases and brought about significant spending restraint in texas and florida and pennsylvania and michigan and new jersey and ohio and indiana. >> but in the past, balanced budget amendments have led to increased taxes and fees in states, have they not? >> they have. and that's why you need a governor and a legislature that's signed the pledge, or a constitutional amendment that requires a two-thirds vote to
raise taxes. california's cutting spending and not raising taxes. why? because they require -- >> so you're not signing -- you wouldn't sign on to a balanced budget amendment that was simple majority in taxes? >> no, because a court could come in and raise taxes on you. that's why the present republican senate, every republican senator has agreed to that constitutional amendment that requires a two-thirds vote to raise taxes and doesn't simply allow you to get around the balanced budget amendment, because there's an emergency. this is not your father's flawed balanced budget amendment that was just silly. this is -- this has teeth. >> grover norquist, head of american tax reform, you always come up with some interesting analogies there. teenage boys everywhere running for their lives. grover, thanks very much. how will wall street react to the lack of progress on debt negotiations or sort of the week of show votes? we'll get a preview of the markets next. plus, what a game, the women's world cup decided on the final kick. heartbreaking highlights are ahead. but first, today's trivia question from "the almanac of
american politics." which state has been the most democratic over the past seven presidential elections? tweet me @chucktodd or @dailyrundown. the answer and more coming up on "the daily rundown." i know what your first question is. what do you mean by "most democratic"? you'll have to find out with the answer. we'll be right back. ♪ you know how i feel i'm loving weight watchers pointsplus program and the edge it's giving me. ♪ freedom is mine ♪ and i know how i feel i never feel deprived. you know how freeing that is? ♪ it's a new dawn, a new day i feel good. i feel good. i feel good. [ female announcer ] join right now and you can join for a dollar. hurry. offer ends august 6th. weight watchers pointsplus. because it works. a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities,
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represents for your best rates. give your family the security it needs at a price you can afford. call this number or go to selectquote dot com. selectquote. we shop. you save. it's a new week on wall street, where traders are focused on earnings reports and a certain pesky debate in washington that you might have heard a little something about. cnbc's melissa francis, a quick look at the markets. what have you got for me? >> futures are in negative territory right now and i would say that that debt debate is definitely the thing that's dominating talking. we had timothy geithner on cnbc earlier today and we asked him, what's going to happen if a debt deal doesn't come our way. and he says the plan is for a debt deal to get done. we're going to raise the debt ceiling. i said, what's the backup plan? he said, the plan is for the
debt deal to get done. we all remember when t.a.r.p. didn't get done the first time and the market fell 777 points. moody's saying, maybe you should eliminate the debt ceiling altogether. there are a lot of countries that don't have that. that might solve the problem and then moody's wouldn't ultimately downgrade u.s. debt. that's at the forefront. we have a ton of earnings out today. big blue ibm coming out after the bell. and news corp down another 5% today as that stock continues to be embroiled in a big scandal. back to you. >> all right, melissa francis at cnbc's world headquarters. and speaking of news corp, just moments ago, another resignation over the phone hacking scandal. the fallout continues. we're live in london after the break. is a big announcement here at home. nbc news and facebook are teaming up to present a first of its kind presidentials debate in the first in the nation primary state. "meet the press"/facebook gop debate will take place before the new hampshire primary,
moderated by david gregory. it will hair this sunday before the primary. it will stream on facebook, msnbc, nobody better to partner with than us because we can put it in so many places. you're watching "the daily rundown," only on msnbc. almost tastes like one of jack's cereals. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one.
woman: honey go get him. anncr: there's an easier way to save. get online. go to geico.com. get a quote. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. all right. a few of the stories making headlines. three international service members were killed in a bombing this morning in eastern afghanistan according to nato officials. this as general david petraeus officially hands over the command of the u.s. mission there to general john allen today. hospital officials are denying a weekend report that ousted egyptian president hosni mubarak had a major stroke and was in a coma. according to egyptian state news, doctors say mubarak is in stable condition, ahead of his august trial date. and a big happy birthday to nelson mandela who turns 93 today. the u.n. and mandela's organization are calling on
people every to perform 67 minutes of community service in honor of his 67 years in community service. and a stunning ending to last night's world cup final as japan beat the u.s. japan came from behind twice to score two goals each. the win was an emotional one from japan, which is still recovering from the devastating earthquake and tsunami back in march that left over 20,000 dead or missing. was quite the match, i have to say. even riveted me, who is usually a soccer negatory guy. anyway, new developments this morning in the phone hacking scandal that's rocking rupert murdoch's media empire. just minutes ago, the assistant police commissioner, john yates resigned. this follows the resignation of scotland yard's top official this weekend and the arrest of one of murdoch's closest associates. nbc's stephanie gosk is live in london. stephanie, when you hear about all of these resignations. some in government, some in news corp, it draws the picture of
what was apparently a very tight-knit, closed circle between the government and the media in london. does it not? >> reporter: well, yeah, it does, chuck. this story started off about phone hacking and it very quickly has become a story about influence. this has really been an amazing 24 hours here. you have two high-level officials from scotland yard. the chief of police, sir paul stephenson, and his deputy, john yates, resigning. and then on top of that, his organization, his department, arrests a top executive at news corp, a trusted executive, rebekah brooks, who has been a lightning rod in this scandal. now, yates and stephenson have resigned over the connection scotland yard or actually the allegations that they mishandled the investigation into the phone hacking. stephenson hired in 2009 a former editor of "news of the world," who was arrested last week, and yates was in charge of the decision in 2009 not to continue to pursue the investigation in phone hacking.
it is all intertwined and the aftermath in this just continues to grow, chuck. >> stephanie gosk in london for us, an unbelievable story that keeps getting murkier and murkier. thanks so much. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell says his top goal is seeing obama defeated in 2012. claire mccaskill has a more personal goal in mind and she believes he's using the debt debate to try to make that happen. >> here's the solution to the problem. let's let the democrats do it and we want them to do it three times before the next election. and it will be okay with us if they do it as long as we don't have to touch it. this is all about trying to take out me and a few others in tough states so mitch can become the floor leader. >> let's talk both aspects of this, jamal taking the claire argument here a little bit, jennifer, though, to set us up
for what claire was arguing there. let's set the stage. there's 33 senate seats up, 23 are held by democrats. and a bunch of incumbents in red or swing states nervous about votes like the debt. >> absolutely. first of all, a lot of these incumbents were elected in 2006, a wave year for democrats. now they have to face voters with barack obama on the ballot, something they didn't have to do six years. they are nervous just about any vote, because as mccaskill says, this is all part of mcconnell's grand scheme. it could be a resolution on groundhog day and it would be part of mcconnell's grand scheme. they want a majority. >> there are six to seven democratic incumbents i'm focused on in particular. and we have mccaskill in missouri, the nelson's, florida and nebraska, chester in montana, and i would throw in casey in pennsylvania. i would throw casey in there. and all that could be -- and
sherrod brown in ohio. that would be voting in way that to try to triangulate a little bit. >> absolutely. the mcconnell plan on its face actually gives them that option. because they are free to vote to disapprove of the president raising the debt ceiling without promote cuts. they can do that. they know that the likelihood of overriding a veto of that resolution of disapproval is slim to none. so, in fact, in some regards, this could be a safe vote for some of them. >> jamal, when i think about some of the democratic senators you've worked for over the years, max cleveland comes to mind. never mind some of the other places you've worked. give me some advice on how a democratic incumbent handles these votes? do they simply vote against and transparently vote against so they don't hand an easy direct mail vote to somebody, or can they make a case the way mccaskill was trying to make it
and say, they're playing politics with on this. >> i've got to divide the candidates up. one group is a group that will campaign in states where barack obama will also campaign hard, and they're going to be a little bit dependent upon having a strong -- >> possibly that's a nelson ground -- >> -- ohio, and florida. >> although missouri's a question park, but that's okay. >> but he'll be there for a little while. and how competitive he is. we saw what happened when john kerry pulled out of missouri -- sfw >> and she needs, mccaskill needs a strong base turnout in order to have a shot. >> absolutely. but then you look at nebraska and west virginia, where the president's probably not going to play that much, so they've got a lot more wiggle room. they're standing on their own two feet. they've got to make this work for themselves. for them, they've got a different voting calculus for them. >> what does that mean? walk me through bill nelson? >> i think you want a strong president. you've got to find a way to keep the president strong and also play to your moderate voters, looking out for yourself. so ultimately, i think he ends up voting for it, because he needs -- he's going to live tor
die in some ways with barack obama. >> you know, jennifer, i've had democratic leaders swear to me. you know what, stop saying the senate's gone. stop saying it's gone. how is it not gone? walk me through the scenario where democrats and harry reid hold on to the majority. >> well, i think to play off what jamal says, it rests in those states where the president will be campaigning. the florida, the ohios -- >> virginia, you can throw in there. >> we'll throw in virginia, we'll throw in new mexico. if republicans cannot win those seats, it's hard to see how they get to the four they need. >> you start with north dakota and everybody goes to nebraska next. it could be competitive. ben nelson pulls rabbits out of his hat. >> and republicans are perfectly capable of nominating the wrong candidate there. they've done it before. >> they can do it again. right. and then you get to three and four. then it gets tough. >> it gets a little tougher. they have to run really good campaigns in places like montana, missouri, you know --
>> be nominees, at best. republicans got be nominees in missouri and montana? >> i think they've got a decent nominee in montana. they've got a statewide elected official, somebody who's been around a long time. i don't think they fell short. so they have got to do very well in some of those other states. there's to gimme on this map. >> and jamal, how would you tell some of these guys to vote on this balanced budget amendment. this is a tougher bba to vote for than the first one on taxes. >> people will have to figure out their own politics on the balanced budget amendment. but they've got to get off of all this stuff. 53% of the american public think the most important issue today is economy and jobs. the longer they're talking about debt and balanced budgets, they're hurting themselves with most voters. remember in 2005 when the senate came back from the extraordinary session voting on the terry schiavo case, 70% of americans
didn't want them to do it. democrats have got to start talking about economy and jobs again. >> jamal simmons and jennifer duffy, thank you both. up next, 2012 presidential game changers. forget about dipping his toe, texas governor rick perry wades in past the hips into the presidential waters. when you're answering questions from the "des moines register," you're pretty much doing that. and what that means for michele bachmann in iowa and beyond. plus, why big donors could mean big trouble for mitt romney. our panel is here to break it down. but first, white house soup of the day, couldn't do better than this? chicken noodle? on the list last week. i feel like we're in summer reruns. what happened to offering new shows in the summer? you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. 50 billion network devices will roam the earth. that's seven devices per person. this will change how we work in ways we've never before imagined. what do you need to secure your people,
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with conservatives trying to derail it a little bit. here's the guy who counts votes on the senate side, arizona republican senator jon kyl. >> the country will not default whether or not there are savings in the process remains the question. at the end of the day, there will not be a default. >> dan balz is the national political reporter and the chief for "the washington post," and author of "the take." and beth reinhart is a political correspondent for the "national journal." welcome all of you. let's start with this week, dan. you've been around washington longer than everybody. i'm not just saying that because off grayer beard than i do, but this week of show votes is, we know that nothing is going to come about and any of these votes are going to pass, but why are they necessary? >> because, a, they don't have anything real to do. they feel they have to do something for a lot of the freshman republicans. they want to take these votes to
show the people back home that they're doing exactly what they said they would do. but it's a, you know, it's a a charade and i think everybody recognizes that. we talked about, there's not going to be a default. in a sense, there has been a default. there's been a political default that's been going on in washington and this week is evidence of that. >> jeff, is the white house trying anything -- it feels like they've thrown in with mcconnell and just negotiating the style of spending cuts that are going to be put in. are there any back-channel negotiations left with speaker boehner? >> if the conversations are going on, they're so far back channel we're not hearing about them. the series of meetings day after day after day. that wasn't necessarily designed, i don't think, to get to an agreement. i mean, that was a recognition that an agreement was likely not to be reached. they were going through the scenario. but i think everything that has become much smaller this week. this is just sort of a, the time is running out, they're just
trying to get some type of thing, so senator mcconnell's plan looks to me like it's going to be, you know, the -- it's not the fallback option anymore. it's probably the leading option. >> beth, what i was fascinated by, the friday press conference that john boehner had, he telegraphed that this week was show votes. because he was saying during one of the questions, look, we'll get these votes out of the way and then we'll discuss other options. that's not a guy selling, knowing that -- i mean, showing his cards, knowing that these votes aren't making it. >> right. you could also argue, though, that the show vote also can lead to progress. once a house republican who was elected on promises to, you know, balance budget amendment, excuse me, they could lay down a marker, so to speak, by voting on the cap cut balance. and then, perhaps, move a little bit one way or the other. >> you know, dan, cutting is not a popular thing to do. you spent some time with governors this week. and i'm fascinated by what scott
walker told you when he wasmess front. it seems as if both sides in the national debate haven't done the messaging very well. this is what scott walker said to you, we didn't make a good enough case for what we were doing and why it was needed. what i was really shocked about was not so much the public's reaction but the national reaction. you don't get the sense that those in washington are hearing those words? >> governor walker is an interesting case. he thought he was going to have a tough sort of two weeks, but he'd get his budget through. and suddenly it all blew up on him. and i think that as we look at what the republicans have been doing this year here in washington, they've suffered from the same problem that governor walker did, which is that they came out with the ryan plan, for example, without any real messaging plan to try to sell that. and it immediately backfired on them. the kinds of things that they are wanting to do, they believe there is general support among
the public, and there probably is, for cutting spending. as a general proposition, people want to do that. but when you get down to the details, they have not had a plan for trying to sell that. >> and jeff, it's the all for one. it's just the same argument democrats made. well, there's an agreement, say, in the health care, that they want something done with health care, but then it was the details that the middle didn't like. >> without question. and the details here is something that's really sort of been lacking. also the consequences of this. that's sort of been struck by the fact that, you know, a lot of rank and file house republicans have not been talking about the consequence. i wonder if they're hearing from their local chambers of commerce. if they're hearing from their local members of business, et cetera. we just haven't heard much about the fallout from this. it's all -- >> but that gets so disconnected. i think sometimes we in washington don't understand with some of these members. some of these members got their republican nominations without the help of the chamber of commerce or without the help of a local business leader, so they don't care. >> these are more movement
republicans than partisans. they're in it for the cause. they're not republican party folks, necessary, and they're in there to do what they feel like they were elected for. >> and if they don't care about re-election, how do you cut a deal. >> some are. there are members of their state legislature who -- >> beth, dan, jeff, stick around, trivia time. we've got to talk about rick perry and whether he's really going to run. trivia time. we asked, which state has been the most democratic over the past eleven presidential elections? meaning with the average democratic vote. the answer is massachusetts. the bay state has kept an average of 56% of its vote in favor of the democratic nominee since richard nixon was elected in '68. we've got it on deep background here that the second soup, the second soup of the day 15 bean. it kind of -- 15 bean is a good one, because that's what this deal's going to look like in the senate.
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all right, let's bring back the panel. jeff, dan and beth. i want to start, dan, with rick perry telling the "des moines register" that he's getting more and more comfortable every day. his announcement coming in the next two to three weeks. we just went through hale barber. there are people that decide not to run even as staff is doing all this work. >> you're absolutely right. i think with governor perry given the fact this is not somebody who by his own admission has thought about running for president a lot and in fact has been -- until he actually says yes, he's not a yes. >> here's rudy giuliani, who by the way, rick perry was the only governor to support him. here's what rudy giuliani had to say about perry. >> i'm going to campaign for a
republican candidate for president, whether it's one of the people in the field, myself or maybe somebody new that comes into the field of which there are one or two that are pretty darn impressive. rick perry is not in yet. rick has got a great record. probably one of the strongest records of any governor in america. >> that's a pretty good endorsement from rudy giuliani, and it would certainly cut down on some of this idea if you're rick perry to tout that giuliani is on board with him the idea that he's too conservative to be elected president. >> sure. i don't see anything discouraging rick perry at this moment, especially when you look at the fund-raising that -- the report that came in over the last week. no one is raising that much money, with the exception of mitt romney, who is also at a tremendous disadvantage against the president. so i see it wide open for him. >> jeff, one of the reasons we've all speculated in the back of our minds why rick perry didn't show special in this early on was this issue of how the bush world, which really is
code for karl rove and company, that this really is a rove rivalry, an old texas rivalry more than anybody else. but that has been an impediment a little bit for perry and it might be an impediment financially if, say, the bush financial folks won't come around. >> it's certainly a story but i'm not sure how many bush financial folks there are anymore. the rangers and pioneers have had second lives. some of them have more money. some of them have been hurt by the market so i don't think the financial issue from the bush world is as important. but there's definitely something there between governor perry and president bush, they have been competitive over the years. so i think that is part of his thinking. at the end of the day i'm with what dan said, we have to see if he has the fire in the belly to do it. >> i want to quickly go to fund-raising reports. dan, i was shocked to see how much big money of all the money that was raised for mitt romney, 70%, i believe, maxed out contributions at $18 million but not surprised to see michele bachmann's money while much less, most of it under $200.
>> right. you would expect that with michele bachmann. she has the ability to raise grassroots money in the same way she has the ability to energize the grassroots. the romney number is interesting, that's a significant number. i think what's also important is that as we keep hearing, there are so many fund-raisers, big fund-raisers and bundlers that are on the phelps afence and wh he go after this. >> what if that's a seven-figure number and not an eight-digit number. >> by maxing out with so many doe donors maxed out, he's got to find new folks and he's got to hope the people on the sidelines will all come his way and not to rick perry. >> he's the biggest fund-raiser but it was a big number of maxed out contributors. shameless plug time. >> shameless plug for the best way to understand all the money things. look at our website, new york times.com. our tech guys have been working all week crunching the numbers.
nytimes.com. check it out. >> anyway dan. >> my shameless plug is for people to follow roger simon on twitter. politico roger. >> if you've loved his odd columns over the years when he does those weird takes, twitter was made for roger simon. beth. >> i'm going to be selfish and tout my own column in this week's national journal about the presidential peanut gallery and unhow unhelpful that can be to members of congress. >> who's in the peanut gallery. >> tim pawlenty and newt gingrich are probably the leaders. >> all right, beth, jeff and the chief, dan balz, thank you all. that's it for this edition ofnd" tomorrow on this show, the president of the club for dprgrh will be on as well as others. coming up next, chris jansing. then elizabeth warren will speak with andrea mitchell. we'll see you tomorrow. bye-bye.
here's your business travel forecast on this monday. i'm bill karins. the heat wave the big story but later on thunderstorms will roll down through new england. some of those could be on the strong side so we could possibly see late day, afternoon airport delays in botch, new york and hartford. also some storms in detroit and chicago. the heat really oppressive through the middle of the country. have a great day. [ female announcer ] ever wish vegetables
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