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tv   The Last Word  MSNBC  July 2, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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the most populous country in the middle east. what happens there could very well change the world in a big way. stay tuned. the question today was did george zimmerman face life-threatening injury at the hands of trayvon martin. >> state versus george zimmerman. >> all eyes on the courtroom. >> the lead detective in this case continued his testimony. >> is it against the law for somebody to wear a hoodie at night?
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>> earlier indications that trayvon martin was committing a crime? >> he believes zimmerman was telling the truth. >> this is george zimmerman's best friend. >> recounting what zimmerman told him about the gun. >> friend said that george zimmerman was shot. >> did you notice in those pictures the cut on mr. martin's knuckle? >> are any of those abrasions life-threatening? >> they always get away. >> we have it on the short delay. in order to mute some of the foul language. >> is the word -- [ bleep ]. >> we'll take you back to the trial right now. >> we're back on the record. >> today, the prosecution called jacksonville medical examiner dr. valerie rao as an expert witness to testify about the
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injuries george zimmerman said he sustained on the night of february 26th, 2012, the night that according to george zimmerman he shot and killed 17-year-old trayvon martin in self defense. here is dr. rao's key finding. >> after reviewing all of those items, in terms of severity, how would you classify the injuries to the defendant's head? >> they were not life-threatening, they were very insignificant. >> dr. rao came to this conclusion after reviewing evidence in the case, including this video reenactment taped by the police department the day of the shooting. >> and tried to slam my head down. my body was on the ground. my head was on the ground. i could feel -- i felt like my body was on the ground, and my
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head was on the cement. he kept slamming it, slamming it. >> dr. rao testified today that the injuries on the back of george zimmerman's head are consistent with just one blow to the head. >> if you hit the head one time, it is consistent with having gotten those two injuries at that one time. because it is an area where it is -- >> the head -- >> protruding, so that one impact could result in the two lacerations. >> dr. rao, using your definition of slamming, your common understanding of slamming, are the injuries on the back of the defendant's head consistent with having been slammed on the concrete surface? >> no. >> why not. >> because looking at the injuries, the wounds were so minor that the word "slammed"
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implies great force. and the injuries were not great force. >> what type of injuries would you expect to see if the defendant's head had been repeatedly slammed into a concrete surface? >> if somebody's head is repeatedly slammed into concrete with great force i would expect lacerations. i would expect a lot of injuries that would be necessitate suturing. so i don't see that in this picture. >> dr. rao also said that the injuries to zimmerman's face could have come from just one blow to the nose. >> all right let's say that i'm the one inflicting the blow. if i were to punch myself right here, i would get the injury on the nose and the contusions on
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the forehead. so one blow would be able to inflict these injuries. >> during cross examination, the defense attorney mark o'mara raised the possibility of george zimmerman being hit twice. >> let me give you this scenario. he gets hit like this, just like that. but it does not go up here. so here is the first shot and heres the second shot. how many is that? consistent with that picture? >> it could be, yes. >> so you're not telling this jury that trayvon martin only hit mr. zimmerman in the face one time? >> i am telling you what the injuries are and what is consistent with it. >> joining me now, faith jenkins, a former criminal prosecutor, gary cashmere, and msnbc legal analyst, also a former u.s. attorney. faith, i was struck by the line
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george ioning where dr. rao d zimmerman-style injury. was the suggestion -- was the prosecution looking for a suggestion there that george zimmerman may have self-inflicted that injury to his face? >> i don't think the prosecution is going that far. but what i think they're trying to do is show that based on this doctor's testimony, there is simply no way that george zimmerman could have sustained a beating he alleged he sustained at the hands of trayvon martin based on his injuries. she described them as minor and insignificant. and in fact they could be sustained from one punch. that is very different from what we've heard in the past few days from george zimmerman's own statements where he said his head was repeatedly slammed against the concrete. he almost lost consciousness, he was hit between 25 and 30 times. what they will argue, he embellished his story, lied to po why is he doing that? because he is trying to cover up
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for his own wrongdoing, his guilt. >> and am i correct that the most mark o'mara to get the number of blows up to in cross examination, blows to the face, was the possibility of two? i mean, because -- like faith just said, it is supposed to be a flurry of blows, and the most i heard mark o'mara get it up to is two. >> that is true, as a defense attorney what you want to create is reasonable doubt that he may have been struck more than twice. and the hits didn't cause any damage, but what they did was cause him to be afraid. the defense has one expert on the prosecution's side, saying it doesn't look that significant, that bad. i also think what you may have later is the defense putting george zimmerman on explaining what it is like to be in the middle of a fight for your life. and that may take the jury in a
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different direction. >> kendall coffee, what is your guess as to the testimony we may hear from george zimmerman, from the witness stand? >> frankly, i don't think george zimmerman's attorneys will call him. there has been a lot of good testimony, from chris serino, he indicated he thought george zimmerman was telling the truth. this testimony helped, not just because it minimized the severity of injuries, and also that he had to do this in order to prevent serious bodily injury or death. it indicates he was not being truthful in describing the magnitude of his injuries, the kind of fight that actually took place. that could be a key for the prosecution in terms of giving them a shot for a conviction. >> see, this is where i think it turns, as a defense attorney, have you brought enough to keep your witness off the stand? he may not have been able to establish there was fear for his
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life, or there was enough testimony to say that he had a basis to be afraid. i think you need to put zimmerman on the stand to establish this. you need to show that this man was afraid for his life in order for the defense to overcome the burden that they have. >> they put in all the statements, including the interview with sean hannity, i think it is very unlikely that o'mara will put him on the stand, when you hear the statement you hear the incredibly sensitive things he said. he has essentially testified, not subject to cross examination by the state putting in a statement. >> we'll get to that sean hannity interview coming up here. but i want to show more of what mark o'mara did today, with dr. rao talking about injuries that trayvon martin incurred. >> so we have some injuries, the
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only injuries, as a matter of fact, besides the gunshot wound, are two injuries on his knuckles, correct? >> correct. >> curious, since you had a chance to look at the autopsy, were there any injuries on trayvon martin at all? >> no. >> any bruising injuries? >> no. >> kendall coffee, what is your assessment of that part of the testimony? >> well, i think it was helpful for the defense to the extent that it indicates whoever started the fight and however it turned out, that at least at one point trayvon martin seemed to be getting the better of it. inflicting some injuries on george zimmerman, may have been exaggerated. but it looks like zimmerman, up until the shot was fired, had more injuries than trayvon martin.
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>> but faith, one of the things it is going to come down to was george zimmerman really in a life-threatening situation? life-threatening to him? and dr. rao's testimony was the injuries that he suffered were certainly not life-threatening and she used that phrase. that seems to be where the prosecution -- that is the point they will emphasize in final argument. >> right, because we know there was some contact there. george zimmerman does have some injuries, but just because you get into a fist fight that doesn't mean you get to then turn around and shoot and kill the other person. and so that is what the prosecutors are arguing about. based on everything we know about george zimmerman, what he said about trayvon martin. his view of him as suspicious, his view of him as a suspect. he was a person who was inclined to overreact, and that is what he did by shooting and killing him. that will be their argument. >> now, the prosecution is trying to get to the element of second degree murder that they have to reach, which is acting with depraved mind, without regard for human life. and they were using george
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zimmerman's language as the root to get to that. we, of course, on this network, because we fear it not damage some mind out there have to bleep these words that everyone knows and everyone could hear, absolutely harmlessly, but that is the convention of this kind of tv. so we'll do some of that bleeping as we play some of this testimony now. >> you did testify when you were cross examined that those two -- these [ bleep ] always get away. and pardon my language again, these punks, that he said that because he wanted to interact and meet and invite trayvon martin for dinner that night? >> excuse me your honor, that would be speculation. >> are you saying those words were uttered in order to meet the defendant? >> excuse me, that would be speculation. >> does that indicate ill will hatred? spite against somebody?>> no, i >> in your opinion, calling
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somebody -- pardon my language, referencing them as [ bleep ] punks? >> boy, that bleeping couldn't be more ridiculous than an actual trial, you know all of these words, we should be letting you hear them. gary, you have got to be stressed, the fact that george zimmerman is on tape saying those words? >> yeah, it is very difficult, looking at things you might have said in the moment of anger, when you think you are chasing somebody done that might have done something wrong. this is very difficult. going back, he is going to have to explain some of this on the stand. how you deal with it, i think the defense will do this. they will have to describe the emotion in george zimmerman's head. was it an intent to go after somebody and kill them, or was it his intent to try to track down somebody for crimes such as
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being on somebody's property? obviously, this guy has a history of being a watchman, this is not completely out of place that this was his interpretation. deciding factor is if he was trying to do somebody harm. that is where they have to get to. >> all right, we'll take a break, we'll be right back with more testimony on the zimmerman case. and later in the rewrite, why texas republicans don't want you to be able to buy possibly the best car ever made. the tesla model s. vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but
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of the house, right to the right, what is there? is there a house with an address? >> yes, there is. >> that was the lead prosecutor on his redirect of the witness, the former lead detective, chris serino, seeking to show inconsistencies. we're waiting to find out if the judge in the trial will allow the prosecution to enter into evidence materials related to george zimmerman's community college criminal justice classes. the prosecution says it will show that george zimmerman knew about the "stand your ground" law before the shooting which would contradict what he told sean hannity interview last summer. the interview was played in court today. >> a lot of this case legally has to do with "stand your ground." you have heard a lot about it. i was just curious, prior to this night, this incident had you even heard of "stand your ground" you never heard of that before? >> no.
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>> kendall coffee, i have to say, i have a lot of respect for mark o'mara and his handling of his case. but the one thing i could not understand is how he could sit down by his client and subject him to an interview by sean hannity or anyone else, to an interview that could be used in court. >> it is a mistake, and especially to see a good lawyer like o'mara to make that mistake. the client thinks it is going to help his case, a relatively friendly interview. who knows what is going to happen? but there are things in the interview that shows inconsistencies, but a complete lack of remorse. an unarmed teenager was killed. you hear it, see it from zimmerman, he just as soon would say nothing about it should not have happened. >> and the stand your ground law, is the kind of thing he
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would know about even if he had not taken that course? >> yeah, i think that is true. i think it is going to be very difficult for the defense to somehow say that he didn't know, unless he says you know, i don't remember the class. i just don't remember it. you know, it is very hard for the jury to dismiss the idea that he knew it. but is that going to decide at that moment in time he was afraid for his life and he acted in self defense? i don't think it is going to be the turning point. >> here is what he does show. he wanted to be a police officer, he was 28 at the time it happened. he is not a police officer. what does that tell you? he tried and failed and is still trying. look at the actions he committed that night. and also just to follow up on what kendall said on the hannity interview, he showed a complete lack of remorse, and says it is god's plan? what is he now, a neighborhood watchperson and he knows what god would want? >> let's listen to him, in his interview, to see if there is anything he regrets.
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i guess we don't have that ready. now they're telling me we have it. okay, control room is going to run it now. anyway, i'm going to read it to you, sean hannity says is there anything you regret? do you regret getting out of the car to follow trayvon martin that night, that is something he should regret. and he is asked, do you regret you had a gun that night? of course there wouldn't be a trial. gary, there is an awful lot for george zimmerman to regret. and it seems to me any juror is going to know that. >> sure, absolutely, there is a lot for george zimmerman to regret here. i'm not exactly sure. i think the defense's job here is to make sure that the jury doesn't get caught up in the sensationalism part of this.
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whether or not that had an impact, whether it is to deciding issue in the case is not. i think it will be the defense attorney's job to lay out if he was afraid for his life. will it work? i think if he gets on the stand and proves it is the objective. you have the objective, proving it is reasonable to act, the prosecution did that. trying to show that the injuries were there and the subjective part, which was, he was obviously losing the fight. all the experts testified that he was losing the fate. >> depraved mind, gary, no remorse, the prosecution is going to argue that, an element of second degree murder. >> and faith said is, zimmerman is going to be a terrible witness. >> so far, the prosecution didn't get what they thought they would get out of serena, exposing the inconsistencies, the lies, if they have put
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george zimmerman on the stand, if the defense does that i think the prosecution will have a field day and will convince the jury that this guy was being untruthful and was covering up, and therefore probably had to have committed the crime that night. >> but faith, it seems like we have got two lawyers on this panel tonight who believe that george zimmerman will not take the stand. gary thinks he is going to have to take the stand. but how much does it matter to that jury if they don't hear from george zimmerman directly on that witness stand? >> and that is the only reason that george zimmerman would get up and testify. because he doesn't need to, now. they have -- the state has put in enough evidence for him to get a self defense charge. but that is always the question. the jurors are instructed you can't hold it against the defendant if he doesn't take the witness stand. in a case like this where we know a 17-year-old, who was unarmed walking back to the place he was staying with nothing but a snack and a cell
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phone, and was killed because george zimmerman thought he was suspicious? the jurors are going to want to hear from him. that is going to be the elephant in the room, if he does not testify. >> that is what i was going to say, gary, every lawyer i know sitting at the defense table knows that in a textbook knows that it says the defendant doesn't have to testify. but they also sweat it out if they ever go through a trial without putting that defendant on the witness stand. they know it is a huge risk. >> absolutely, you agonize over that. in this instance, this case has riveted the nation. and i think you have a jury who really wants to know the answers and wants to know if george zimmerman had an innocent state of mind when it happened. at the moment when he decided to fire the gun. and i agree with faith, i think the jury will not let him have a pass. they will not ignore the fact that as much as the defense is going to drive home the jury
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charge that you must not hold it against the defendant, i don't think they can. >> go ahead -- kendall, last word. >> i think the defense thinks they're ahead. if they put zimmerman on the stand it is a one-witness trial. and i don't think the defense wants to take that chance with george zimmerman. >> all good points, i'm undecided on this one. kendall coffee, faith jenkins, and gary casimir, we just don't know if the defendant is going to take the witness stand. thank you. >> thank you. so what is so controversial about first lady michelle obama meeting former first lady laura bush in africa? well, there would be nothing controversial about that unless you fill your day reading right-wing information and listening to rush limbaugh. and why are politicians trying to kill tesla, possibly the greatest card ever made?
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why are these free-enterprise politicians trying to crush free enterprise when it comes to selling teslas? out there owning it. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is "how did i end up here?" i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives.
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breaking news in egypt tonight. egypt's president, mohammed morsi says he will not step down, even though the military and millions of egyptians want him to go. millions of people are protesting for another night in cairo's tahrir square and around
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the presidential palace and in areas around the country. morsi has used his power to install a government controlled by islamists, and that he has not instituted government reforms. the military has given morsi until wednesday to meet their demands or they say they will suspend the constitution dissolve the legislature, or they will take steps. today he says he will not step down. coming up next, a plane carrying the president of bolivia was forced to land in austria today because of suspicions that edward snowden was on board. that is ne xt. ♪
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in the spotlight tonight, so far the only country that wants edward snowden is the united states. the nsa leaker stuck in moscow has requested asylum from at least 20 countries. no country has said yes yet, but he did receive maybes from
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countries such as bolivia. >> this young man. 19 years old has to be protected by the international community. once i arrive to caracas, i will provide my official opinion. >> if snowden asks for asylum, will you provide it for him? >> yes, why not? if we receive a request, we're willing to consider it and enter into discussions. >> the bolivian foreign minister said the plane bringing him home was rerouted after france, and portugal refused to let it cross their air space because of suspicions that edward snowden was on board. the plane remains now at the airport in austria, the foreign minister says that snowden was
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not on the plane. hours early, the spokesperson for the united states said this. >> we have been in touch, as we have been for several days now with a broad range of countries that could serve as either transit spots or final destinations. and what we have been communicating is of course what we have been communicating publicly. that mr. snowden has been accused of leaking classified information. he is somebody that we would like to see returned to the united states, of course. and we are hopeful that that will happen. >> joining me now, msnbc's joy reid. joy, this was one of those really active days in the story, the pursuit story, anyway, with
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the fakeout on the bolivian plane. but this is getting to be much more difficult, that it seemed that the snowden team, if we can call it a team, thought it would be. >> yes, it is very dramatic, you sort of get the idea that edward snowden didn't think through this escape plan, when he decided to make his move from hong kong. his escape plan seems really scatter-shot and a little desperate. but what you're also seeing, lawrence, you're seeing partly a diplomatic issue, where snowden's routes are being shut down systemically, you look at do they want to damage their trade relationships with this one guy who did leak classified information on his own government. so he is not necessarily somebody you want to bring into your own country. and there was this really great
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piece in a magazine, where they made a point, i won't take credit for it. that states tend to be very reluctant to act in concert with nonactors. and wikileaks, because he is now associated with them, it is not just about thumbing their nose at the united states. there is a sort of non-state actor at play here, which is wikileaks. >> let's listen, about the statements that were released by edward snowden yesterday. >> of course, i'm speculating here, i don't actually know who wrote it or who influenced it here. it seems like the core ideas were very much is consistent with now edward snowden thinks, but that it is sort of burned with a flavor that isn't him. the world knows how he expressed himself, the video, there were pointers made of my interviewing him. and he is very mild mannered.
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very softspoken, even though his ideas are very emphatic. so the idea he won't accept asylum in russia, if he thinks the u.s. is being very unjust in his treatment of him. those are all consistent with his philosophy. but i agree there was sort of a virulent tone to it that didn't strike me as own. >> so he knows edward snowden better than anyone else, who says that those statements yesterday seemed to him to be influenced and have word choice tone, things like that, in there that are not snowden's. >> yes, and you have the words apparently, that wikileaks released the statement that was re-released with an edit. and later his dad came out saying there may be manipulation of my son by wikileaks. and now, all of a sudden his statements are coming out.
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it has this grandiose tone coming to it, that is very julian assange. they appear to be the ones paying for and facilitating his travel and movement. and they also seem to be the ones shaping his public statements. you do start to wonder if maybe edward snowden is being manipulated for an agenda, that is really more about julian assange's agenda. and even an independent attorney who had nothing to do with wikileaks, somebody that could give him sound advice. and the best advice, lawrence, may be just to come back to the united states. come back here and face justice and stand up for what he did. >> well, listen, i can completely understand not wanting to spend the next 20 or 30 or 40 years in prison. so i wouldn't ascribe any particular great nobility trying to stay away from the united
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states. but trying to stay out of prison is a perfectly reasonably sane thing to try to do. and any way he can pull it off makes sense to me. joy reid, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> coming up, the first lady gets a very warm greeting in africa from another first lady. but of course, conservatives just hate that. and the great new automaker, tesla, that great, new american car from a great, new american car company is having trouble competing in this country because of all the politicians who are opposed to real free enterprise in this country. that is in the rewrite. tosterone could affect sex drive, but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel.
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rush limbaugh wanted to talk about immigration reform and why republicans should fear it on "fox and friends" today. but rush says that fox wouldn't let him. >> i told the people at fox i
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wanted to talk about this today. that was three or four times and they wouldn't do it. they were not interested in bringing the subject up. they asked me, what do you want to talk about? i told them i didn't want to talk about egypt. first thing out of my mouth, i want to talk about immigration and the state of the republican party. wouldn't go there. i had to bring it up myself. >> i'm shocked, it is just shocking that fox actually has a company policy about what they want to talk about and not talk about. the rewrite is next. and this park is the inside of your body. you see the special psyllium fiber in metamucil actually gels to trap and remove some waste. and that gelling also helps to lower some cholesterol. it even traps some carbs to help maintain healthy blood sugar levels as part of your diet. now that's one super hard working fiber. metamucil. 3 amazing benefits in 1 super fiber.
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[ dennis ] talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rings ] ...and let the good life in. >> it is motor trend's car of the year. it is automobile of the year. consumer reports rates it at 99 out of hundred, the highest rating consumer reports has ever given a car. but an awful lot of american politicians don't want you to be able to buy this car. the tesla model s, and a lot of those politicians are republicans who claim to worship, just worship free market economics. but those politicians are in the pockets of tesla's competitors. that is what i call a scandal. a real political scandal. the brilliantly innovative electric car company tesla is showing that the time has come to rewrite our laws on selling cars. now, i know many of you probably didn't realize that there are laws governing exactly who can
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sell cars in this country. and exactly which cars they can sell. automobile dealerships have successfully located for laws that prevent general motors or ford or any manufacturer from directly selling their cars to the public. now, think about just how crazy that is. and think about it while you're holding your phone. the iphone, you can buy it directly from the manufacturer, apple, you can do it on line at apple's website or you can walk into one of apple's beautiful stores, powers of electronic temptation. or you can walk to the counter and chat up a genius. or you can buy one of these iphones at best buy or all sorts of independent stores and on-line vendors. there is no limit to how many different ways you can buy this little thing, legally buy a new iphone this this country.
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no limit to how you can do that. because that is the american way. to sell this american product. except when it comes, of course, to cars. your local car dealership has joined with other car dealerships all over your state to get state laws written to put extreme limits on the free market for new cars in your state. and if your state is texas, your local car dealerships, most of which are owned and operated by rich texas republicans, have conspired with republican state legislators to prevent tesla from doing business in texas. governor rick perry prides himself on the lack of regulation on businesses in texas. >> government can either be a hurdle or a government can kind of smooth out the road. we think in texas we smoothed that road out about as good as
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anybody. >> okay. so in texas, tesla has showrooms in dallas, houston, and of course, austin, but it is not actually allowed to show cars in those show rooms or give test drives in those show rooms. tesla actually calls those show rooms galleries because they really are places you can look at a tesla and not even discuss buying one. that is rick perry's no regulation texas. rick perry's texas is preventing the free flow of commerce in those tesla galleries because there are so many state laws preventing tesla from doing business the way it wants to, selling cars to customers, without the wasteful mark-up from the middle man and the dealerships. frustration is boiling over not just among the tesla headquarters but among fans.
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one frustrated buyer texted we, the people, calling for tesla to be allowed to sell to consumers in all 50 states. any white house petition that gets 100,000 signatures will get a reply on friday. so on friday, tesla itself got involved by e-mailing its customers asking them to sign that petition and then tweeted about it. at that point there were less than 25,000 signatures on the petition. i re-tweeted tesla's tweet on saturday so my massive twitter following and by sunday there were close to 70,000 signatures. and today, three days before the petition deadline, the 100,000 signatures have been secured. and so the white house will have to react to rick perry's suppression of the free market
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of new cars and the similar anti-free market anti-consumer regulations that exist all over the country. tesla has changed the way we think about cars. tesla is the most important technical advance in automobile engineering since the invention of the automobile. tesla is as close as we have come to an automotive miracle. but it will take an even greater miracle for america's hypocritical anti-free market state legislators and governors to stop using their regulatory powers to try to crush innovators who compete with the campaign contributors and through no doubt other means have purchased the services of those state legislators, and governors. vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but
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a friend under water is something completely different. i met a turtle friend today so, you don't get that very often. it seemed like it was more than happy to have us in his home. so beautiful. avo: more travel. more options. more personal. whatever you're looking for expedia has more ways to help you find yours.
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the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is "how did i end up here?" i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives.
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here is michelle obama. she is in dar es salaam, at the first lady's summit which is being moderated by cokie roberts, and she is talking about michelle obama and former first lady laura bush. and they were talking about the white house. >> but it is a really nice prison. >> you can't complain. >> she is living in a prison, let's free her. get her out of there on an early parole. now, if you listened to rush limbaugh and other right-wing haters of michelle obama you
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would have no idea that it was actually cokie roberts that brought up the prison thing and that it was actually cokie roberts who quoted the first lady martha washington and who wrote this letter about living in the white house "i think i am more like a state prisoner than anybody else." here is what michelle obama actually said. >> you have an opportunity to speak to your passion and to really design and be very strategic about the issues you care most about. and i just found it -- just a very freeing and liberating opportunity. >> no state prisoner? >> there are prison elements to it. but it is a really nice prison. you can't complain. >> here is more of what michelle obama said today about her life in the white house.
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>> i am a very opinionated person, as my husband will tell you, but the job and the stress is so much. and there is so much coming at them, i have come to realize that there has to be a soft place to land. there has to be a place where they walk in that door and -- they are -- no one else but dad, or sweetheart. and the opposite is true, that sometimes for our sanity, i don't want to get involved in everything that he is doing. because as first lady, our role is to keep people up. you know? you know, the presidents have to make all the hard calls and sometimes the nation needs somebody that is just going to say you know, it is going to be okay. >> joining me now, "washington post" political reporter. i feel i have to issue a note to
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our audience about the language of rush limbaugh. he calls her, as regular listeners to rush limbaugh's program know, he calls her mooschelle obama, because he believes she encourages the american people to mooch off the government. that is why that name comes from, i think we saw with laura bush why michelle obama's popularity ratings are so high. >> that is why, and why she is a cover on every magazine, why she is such a hit on the late night shows and why her approval ratings are sky-high. she is the most popular democrat in the country, there is no doubt about that. that whole session was about 40 minutes. and as you showed there, rush limbaugh and some of of the folks on the right wing wanted to pick out that little bit about the prison system. but it was really this 40-minute long conversation that she was having with laura bush, all about the importance of educating women and what it means for all the different countries across the world,
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including in america. >> and these are the two first ladies and the two presidents who have paid more attention to the african continent than any of their predecessors. let's look at this picture that the first lady put on instagram, she and malia at a girl's school in senegal. yeah, i think we can get that up there. that is really what this trip is about for michelle obama. i was just there a week before she was, visiting girl's schools in africa, also, very important issue there. girl's education. >> that is right, girls' education, encouraging leadership, encouraging girls to strive and take up the leadership of their nation. and i think we'll see more of this from michelle obama, as she tries to figure out how she leaves a legacy to the white house. >> thank you very much, i'm sorry we ran out of time. we used it up earlier on some of the discussions in the program. thank you.
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>> thank you. was it self-defense? and has the gop kissed off the latino vote? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. in a minute, are republicans ready to kiss off the latino vote? just tell them to take their vote and shove it, are they? and now it looks like edward snowden is truly a man without a country, even one that will take him. ly but let me start with the biggest trial in the country. this case will come down to whether george zimmerman believe head faced great bodily harm or

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