tv MSNBC Live With Kate Snow MSNBC February 4, 2016 12:00pm-2:01pm PST
the 88th southern parallel. we had traveled for over 850 miles. my men driven nearly mad from starvation and frostbite. today we make history. >>bienvenidos! welcome to the south pole! if you're dora the explorer, you explore. it's what you do. >>what took you so long? if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. >>you did it, yay! hello, i'm chris matthews live from new hampshire right now where it is debate night for the democrats. the stage is set, of course. hillary clinton, bernie sanders, one on one right here on msnbc. six hours from now, 9:00
eastern. who is the democratic party? should the democrats nominate a self-described democrat for president? or self-described socialist who has built a career of running to the left of the party? will the real democrat please stand up? that's a sharp division in the campaign right now. >> i was some what amused today that senator sanders set himself up to be the gate keeper on who who is the progressive. >> you can't be a moderate one day and progressive on other day. >> i know where i stand. know who stands with me. know what i've done. i don't think it helps for the senator to be making those kinds of comparisons. >> i do not know any progressive who has a super pac and takes $15 million from wall street. that's just not progressive. >> any way, u mass tracking poll shows clinton with the gap on sanders though he still holds a
22-point lead. republicans are fanning across the state as well with marco rubio with his rivals. the same polly told you about hillary and bernie shows rubio passing cruz for second place here in new hampshire. but still, again, 21 points behind trump. so donald trump and bernie sanders are front runners here still. we start with democrats tonight. msnbc's alex seitz-wald and casey hunt are standing by at the debate site. alex, you first. who are you covering right now? >> chris, both candidates are down for debate prep today but i'm jumping between the two, getting a sense of how they are interacting and one that's sort of been couped up for the past eight years when they've had barack obama as president where we haven't had these deivisions come out. this is the debate that parties
need have every so often like the forest fire that clears the area and new growth coming up. so i think it is interesting it look at the big picture like that. >> casey, who are you covering right now? >> chris, we are actually at the student union at the university of new hampshire whereof course this debate is happening tonight and this inside this union is actually where there a debate watch party. this year is the table of students for bernie. they are going to have a rally later today. right outside of the debate hall and we have a couple of students here supporting bernie sanders. just getting a feel for don't forget young voters support him overwhelmingly. this is tim. tim, can you tell us about why it is that you're supporting senator sanders or secretary clinton? >> bernie sanders is important to me mostly because of his views towards students in particular as well as his views towards social justice oriented issues, black lives matter, lbgt community et cetera. >> does it bother you at all
that he is a socialist? >> i prefer it, actually. >> really? why? >> because i don't have a very positive view of capitalism or the way that economy has been left by a couple of older generations. so i think that a new way of doing things is an improvement. >> i've got one question for the two of you. we also have two young women here supporting senator sanders. i'm wondering why for you hillary clinton might be the first woman president. is there a reason why you're backing bernie over hillary clinton? >> i would rather support the candidate that i think is a better person for the job than the one who's gender is the same as my own. >> do you feel it is important to have a woman president or you feel as though we are past the point where that something that needs to be a priority? >> i still think it is very important. when we do have our first woman president i want her to be sort of someone who really like is
important. like -- >> that's all right. who believes what you are worried about, right? >> yes. >> thank you very much for your time. we appreciate it. chris, i think there have you a little bit of a snapshot. this is someone who has resonated with these young people. on the flip side, sanders has more trouble with older voters and as we know, voters are more likely to go to the voting poll. >> joining me right now is publisher of the new hampshire union leader which is assisting msnbc with questions for tonight's debate. thank you, joe. >> thank you, chris. >> been a long time. what do you make of the labels? let's talk about the democratic side. you don't have to give bernie sanders a label. 's's got one for his life. he made it his name, socialist. >> correct. >> he said last night on cnn he is a democrat now. he throws in, of course, though he has been running in the neighboring state here republicaning against democratic
candidates for dem decades. he is a democrat now. convenient. now he is a progressive. progressive is a very elastic word. it could be teddy roosevelt or henry wallace who blamed the cold war on the west in 1948 will and plamed truman for being a war hog. today progressive seems to cover the waterfront from hard hard left to socialists to anybody, what the left of hillary? what does it mean any more? >> it doesn't mean anything. it is labels that might be of interest to political junkies like you and me. but to the guy or gal -- >> for the people that want to call themselves progressives. >> guys and gals on the street. >> progressive democrat -- >> you are -- >> progressive democrat. i'm moderate but -- >> you're explaining the primary to my readers on sunday. >> are you going to try to explain it to them? >>, you are. >> okay, fine. let me zplan this to you. we grew up, you and i, with definitions very clear. if you are a lefty, socialist, say lefty then socialist then
liberal then progressive. and then moderate. progressive is someone like teddy roosevelt. for wisconsin, somewhere on the moderate side of the republican party. they weren't lefties. >> no. no, they weren't. >> in 1948, hen risry wallace left of roosevelt and roosevelt dumped from his ticket. he said he was progressive. now progressive is what we called liberal. now it also encompasses socialists. what does that mean? >> when i want to call you guys on the left strong names, i don't call you progressive. that's nothing. you're a socialist. >> how can you not be a progressive? every american is for progress. we are all moving ahead. >> they don't know the meaning of the word, progressive. >> you're with -- >> chris christie. >> what moved you to go for the governor, the brash predonald trump big mouth? >> he is a progressive. >> ha! what made you fall for the big
guy from jersey? >> part of the reason was you mentioned donald trump. christie is a trump with substance behind the big mouth and he can push his ideas out there and i thought and still think that he is the guy who's going to challenge trump here and down the line. >> let's talk about your predictions then. who will win on tuesday on the republican side? >> i think trump will come in first. but that's not a win for trump. >> oh, you're going play that game? i'm going to argue with the liberals and progressives. let's stop it and move on. >> okay, trump will win. that good enough for you? >> if there is an nba game with the celtics and they win 115-114, they won. >> right. they smoked the other team. >> you don't say -- you say celts win close. celts pull it out. remember johnny most? >> not like that.
he lost his -- stole the ball, stole the ball. >> he used to say foul on russell but would never say russell fouled him. russell never fouled anybody in the history -- >> russell was a gentleman. >> okay, let's talk about -- so what everybody is gunning for -- and i hate to use ballistic references, everybody is going after rubio. he is moving up in the polls, we think so, based upon iowa. so somebody said to me today they think that, somebody sitting near us right now, thinks he might beat trump here. rubio. >> i don't have that feeling. but i don't know. >> what do you think of the boy in the bubble? that line? your guy -- what about the boy in the bubble? >> rubio hasn't been in new hampshire much. nowcy he is trying to buy time. about going to washington. he's already in washington. >> is he a robot? >> he is a programmed guy, yeah.
>> what is he a neocon? who wrote the script for him? >> what's neocon. >> the next war in time, iraq, libya, syria, then iran. >> chris, i'm not kidding. we are running your remarks in our sunday paper. even back then you were saying rubio may be the hawk who moves up. >> yeah, i'm so worried. thank you. joe will stick with us right new for our next block. up next we turn to the republicans, donald trump calls my friend joe here a naughty name. also, kelly o'donnell's new interview with jeb bush. bush is up here fighting, got to give him that. he is deploying his relatives now. barbara bush, his mother and w. actually, he is not bringing w up here. sending him to south carolina. bringing barbara up here. she really is a yank. national press secretary, as we get ready for tonight's democratic debate here on msnbc.
trump and ted cruz exchanging fire on the campaign trail up here in new hampshire. anyway, nbc news, on the phone now, following the campaign in portsmouth, new hampshire. where there is a trump rally in a few hours. you're in the nicest city in the state. one of the nicest. in portsmouth, there's a restaurant on the water that has the best apple strewed el. i love that place. >> caller: we were in exeter and now we're in portsmouth. people in new hampshire here, a two pronged approach from the trump campaign. on the stump you see trump make the pitch he is electable, experience in the business world, he can bring his business ak u men, deal-making skills in the white house. he used the word you need to ka joel with congress. he is making that pitch quite often in new hampshire. especially in light of what is
happening in iowa. that's the second prong to this approach. he was saying that ted cruz has some certain actions of his and during the iowa caucuses that trump has called fraud. he is talking the about the controversial voter mailers and rumors about the cruz staffer saying that ben carson dropped out. trying to throw more people over to the cruz campaign on caucus night. trump refers to those things and trying to invalidate ted cruz's victory while pushing his own second place finish as saying he didn't expect to be well there anyway. an argument though he was saying if he didn't want it win in iowa but if he won it would help going forward. there is a two-pronged approach in new hampshire. we saw earlier this morning and we are expecting to see it in portsmouth later tonight. >> great report, ali, thanks so much. good report there. i think he has to shake this loss off. because it doesn't work with the brand.
>> trump is all polls. when i was on his good side. whenever he talked to me. i'm ahead in the polls. eye head in the polls. ahead in the polls. that's it. he is ahead in the polls and he would run the table. >> not here. down by 26. >> as in iowa. he is not going to win by 22 -- >> he will win, won't he? >> he will come in first. >> his career has been business where he is able to finesse anything. >> i don't know about finessing. >> if public to be beaten by a game named ted cruz, he doesn't have this guy's celebrity, charm, wit. on stage ability. >> his wit? he's got wit. don't you feel it? snrs what the worst thing he called you? >> psycho so far. >> psycho. >> psycho and low-life. but not low energy. >> what do you like better? >> my golf buddies have already tagged me with dr. psycho and
they think we will get better tee times because you don't want to upset dr. psycho. >> let's watch some of the greatest hits against you from donald trump. >> this guy, joe mcquaid -- [ crowd booing ]. -- he is a low life, i'm telling you. i did so much for this guy. a sleeze bag. you don't hurt somebody that's been helping you. and is doing a good job. here can you have it. that's all it's worth. piece of garbage. >> calling your neighbor -- >> that is the first four secs. and he is not telling the truth about the size of my newspaper. look at that. he said like a flyer in a grocery store. only doing the first of it -- >> he is calling you a shopper. >> yeah. >> and union leader.
let's talk about people that don't know, like junkies, always watching, and you got them crying, aren't you proud of that one? >> didn't do it. don't know. >> prefer to believe it didn't happen. >> no, i think the snow -- >> what was the greatest hit? pat buchanan winning in 1996? what is the biggest boost you gave? >> buchanan in '96. and i don't think conservatives expected us to go with mccain in 2008. >> this is not just yankees. but the irish italian guys, it is a gritty city. gritty character search. you look for the guy, usually the guy, it can be a woman this time, and gritty gutsy saying, live free or die person. is that what it's about? how would you describe the new hampshire favorite? >> well, that name -- right.
reagan democrats. they work for a living and come out of washington. that's why the straight talk did so well in 2008. and why buchanan did well. as much in 1992 and 1996. he didn't win but new hampshire was -- >> 38 or 37. >> yeah. >> i have the headline in my bomb of favorite headlines. joe mcquaid. >> i'm a sleeze bag. >> all right. this show like a boxing match. two people in the ring. but their iowa race may not be in the books quite yet. newspaper calling for an audit, whatever that means. and jeb bush, calling in the big guns, relatives, really, has his mom in and w. is that going to do it? doesn't look like that's going to do it. edible promise. the always discreet
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hillary clinton an bernie sanders are squaring off. there's a new phrase. head to head at 9:00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. only head to head, this is the last debate before the primary. only two left in the race now that martin o'malley quit. and here it comes, an audit of that very close result in iowa and the democratic caucus. headline was it is today something smells in the democratic party. bringing in right nowcy moan sanders, national press secretary from the bernie sanders campaign. generally, have you heard with this happening before the paper came out today? >> we heard inklings. we were there in iowa monday night as they were tallying the votes or precinct totals were coming in. there were 90 missing. >> they came in -- >> not all of them came in np no one knowes.
>> wait, were a hundred percent results in or not? >> not monday night. >> but eventually a hundred percent under. >> eventually. there's too much questions in the air here, chris. >> there are always questiones. this is something normal. >> is it normal? >> yes, it is. >> we don't know. which is why the des moines register editorial came out today which we think posed some very interesting questions. >> does your campaign want an a audit? >> the senator noted that he was thinking about, yes, talking about an audit. >> so he wants an audit? >> we want to know the numberes. >> i get it, you don't have to endorse it publicly but you like the idea of an audit. h is a battle over definition tonight of what a democrat is. what a socialist is, what a progressive is. those are three labels that i've grown up with and everybody has grown up with them. what do they mean to you? what's a democrat? what's a democrat? >> chris, i'm a democrat. i don't know -- are you a
democrat? >> go ahead. >> bernie sanders is a democrat. >> he is? he always ran as socialist. >> he is caucus with democrats since he is first at -- >> what do you mean -- he puts his name on the ballot as socialist. >> no, he doesn't. . there is no box he checked as socialist. bernie sanders is self-described democratic socialist. >> you can say whatever you want. did he ever run on the democratic -- >> he has been lock and step with the democrats. democrats in vermont have -- >> has he ever ran on the democratic line? >> he is from vermont and there is no party registration. he is running now as democratic nomination. >> he is a democratic as now? >> he is a democratic yes. >> i raise it this way because your guy attacked hillary for saying she is a moderate on some occasions and progressive as others. he spent decades advertising himself as socialist and now is run as democrat. >> can i respond to that? >> sure. >> he hasn't changed his label. he is a democratic socialist, very different from a socialist.
we can have the debate on socialism later. but bernie sanders didn't attack secretary clinton. we're not arguing now. in september clinton noticed, some people say i'm a moderate and left of center, i plead guilty. that's not attacking her. that's repeating exactly what she said. >> he has been calling himself a socialist for how many years? >> he has been calling himself a democratic socialist for years and he isn't running away from that. if you're a moderate, say you're a moderate. if you're progressive, say you're progressive. >> what's the difference between progressive and socialist? >> some argue that progressives stand up for hard-working americans. >> help me with -- is he a socialist and progressive? >> bernie sanders is the most progressive member of the united states congress -- >> most progressive? what does that mean? >> i don't think you will find
anybody more progressive than him. >> what does that mean, progressive? >> to bernie sanders, to most people i think, progressive is standing up for a radical revolutionary change. that's what senator sanders is talking about. talking about taking on thes b establishment. taking on congress. lots of things in this country have come from radical revolutionary change. civil rights movement grew out of red cal revolutionary change. that's what senator sanders is talking about, political revolution. i think people have gotten caught up in the nuances and what not -- >> the way you describe it, it is not nuanced. you're very clear. radical revolution is not nuance. >> folks are saying we attack secretary clinton. none of that happened. all we are asking is clear up the definition she put on herself. one day a couple -- in september she was a moderate. in ohio. now in new hampshire she is progressive. doesn't matter to us, see it. >> so he would be proud to use
the language you a just used? radical revolutionary -- >> he said it, yes. we need radical revolutionary change. he is calling for a political revolution. he is calling for young people old people, people black, white, his tannic, latino, asian-american otherwise. gay and straight. come up and come together around the issues of economic inequality. criminal justice reform. taking back from the billionairees. stand up for the hardworking americans. people of color. some people don't see a middle class. >> so whatever he is saying now, like radical revolutionary change, he will say going into the general election in he is the nominee? he will not change and good to the center. >> correct. >> so the way you just talked is the way he will roughly be talking if he goes up against marco rubio? >> yes. this is what people are responding to. some people in the democratic
party are and where the party is going. democrats are hardworking americans in this country. poor people. not here for incremental change. when you're poor, you can't wait for incremental change. you can't wait for people to tell to you hold on and get a little bit. so what people in this country are looking for, what america needs, is radical revolutionary change. that's what we had eight years ago. that was radical revolutionary. people said it couldn't be done. saying barack obama was far-fetched and ideological. look at us now. we still have far to go. needs to be someone who can take the country to the next level and that is senator bernie sanders. >> thank you. great passion. great clarity. i now know. i'm glad i wound you up there a bit. my god. i said the right thing. that's what i try to do. zing people into tell meg what they believe and you just did. thank you for joining us. ahead, marco rubio moving up in the polls and under attack. what he has become -- he is no
longer the boy in the bubble. he's the boy in the center of the target right now. can't think of a better word than bubble right now. anyway, he says the only thing rubio can do is fix his hair and smile. who said that? anyway, will the bush family name help jeb up here in new hampshire? i don't think so. anyway, we'll talk to him. our cosmetics line was a hit. the orders were rushing in.
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about his mom, barbara. barb sometimes, i think. >> yes. >> she will join him on the campaign trail. and joining me now is kelly o. >> she is the enforcer in the family, as you know. >> tough cookie. >> yes. i raised with governor bush that comfortable moment a couple of years ago when she told the world she thought there had been enough bushes serving in the white house. other families could do something now. he shared how he had phone conversations with her and they had some moments about that. and now she is described as the biggest grass roots supporter he has. >> well he's in. >> he's if in. >> another has to be with the kid once he's in. >> she shared a picture of him using one of those motorized scooters and stickers passing them out to neighbors and friends. so this won't be the kind of strenuous campaigning we've come to know when sometimes families get on the trail this is a moment for people in new
hampshire to see their former first lady, mother of the president, and another mother after candidate. >> this is a big come back for his dad in 1988 when he knocked off bob dole here. that was a vicious back and forth with tom brokaw assisting in the transmission there. >> stop lying about my record! that was bob dole. >> indeed. >> let's watch your interview now. >> here we go. >> let's take a look. >> marco rubio has been a politician since he was 26 years old. gifted beyond belief. but he is not from the outside. he has been a career politician. there's nothing in his record that would suggest he can make a tough decision. i don't any we need people cutting and run anything more. we need someone that can go to the fire, challenges things that are broken. brings people together to forth consensus. >> that's the hard ball he was throwing today. we sat down and talked about marco rubio getting the bounce out of iowa and voices in the party that say it is time to co-less around figure that could
fill that establishment lane. i asked, have you heard the whispers from those who said they didn't think you -- he said no. he said if there are dopers who are upset they ought to call him and they have the resources will and game plan to go beyond new hampshire.him and they have the will and game plan to go beyond new hampshire.are upset they oum and they have the resources will and game plan to go beyond new hampshire. >> maybe they are all in bubbles. no one wants to say, you're out of here. he deservees a shot up here. i thought this has the old bush family thing going for it but that may have been the older new hampshire. >> it's been tough. it has been tough. but he thinks he can make the argument that others are making. you see kasich and christie doing it too about executive leadership and accomplishing things in office as a measure for voters to take a look at it. i did talk to voters who interacted with him after he had left. and they had favorable impressions. a couple of them said, one man told me i was rand paul supporters. now that he is out i'm going tore jeb bush. >> i thought this election was looking for a good executive.
because obama was a legislator who wasn't seen as a great executive. in terms of dealing with congress and all that. that's not what vote rs seem to be looking for. they seem to be looking for ideology more than anything else. >> ideology, willingness to challenge everything. but of course once you're in government we have watched how people who were that outsider then become part of the structure and it is hard to -- >> do you hear someone speaking for the sanders? radical revolutionary change. i don't think i ever heard a politician -- anyone speak like that -- >> bernie himself. >> radical revolutionary change? >> yes. he talks about movement and revolution. people are looking for something to shake it up. challenge for jeb bush to see if he can personify that. i asked him about, you tried to separate in terms of being your own man, your own record, with having your mother in town aren't you fully taking in the bush legacy? >> he said, i love them, they are my family, i'm glad she's here. >> this is very much like
france, always ends up close to the center. it doesn't go hard left or hard right. it doesn't. thank you, kelly o'donnell. i'm not bet on it. hillary clinton says bernie sanders has a big advantage up here in new hampshire because he's from next door, from vermont. look at the map. let's take a look. >> i come here well aware of the fact that a lot of political pundits have been opining, as political pundits do, that i should have just skipped coming to new hampshire. new hampshire favors neighbors, which i think is neighborly. i have to tell you, i just could not ever skip new hampshire. >> well, i guess we're going to take a look at the -- so that's the clintons saying bernie sanders has an unfair advantage here in new hampshire. let's take a look to the degree that that is true. because he is have vermont and
vermont is next door. the thing is though when they talk about past winners from border states and how that is an advantage. those winners are not from vermont, not from maine, but from one state, massachusetts. you think of dukakis, john kerry, paul, and first of all a lot more candidates from massachusetts. but it is this. this part of the state roughly drawing the sort of southeastern part of the state. this is where the majority of the population lives in new hampshire. these are the biggest towns, biggest cities. couple things have you here. first of all, there are a lot of people who have moved up from massachusetts into this part of new hampshire. so they are still connected to massachusetts. there are 90,000 people everyday who get in their cars in new hampshire and drive to massachusetts to go to work. and here is the big thing. boston television, boston radio, boston newspapers, they blanket this part of the state. if you're a politician from massachusetts and you decide to
run for president and campaign in new hampshire, the majority of voters in the state, they already know your name. they've been hearing about you for years. they go up there, those candidates from massachusetts, they have a pretty big advantage. when you talk about bernie sanders, what the clintons are trying to say is oh, he has the same built-in advantage. burlington vermont is up here. there are a couple tv stations but you're not watching them down in this part of the state. you're not getting burlington newspapers in this part of the state. you don't have tens of thousands of people commuting between the states every year. there is probably an advantage for sanders in this part of the state here along the connecticut river valley. calling part of this vermont east. again the key here is the major population centers in new hampshire are right down by the massachusetts borders. they absorb bosto media all the time. when you talk about a border state advantage, it is not a vermont advantage really. an maine advantage really. it's a massachusetts advantage. the proof is in the pudding when you took the first poll in new
hampshire, early last year and matched bernie sanders up against hillary clinton she was about 50 points ahead of him. so if he had a big vermont advantage he wouldn't have walked into this rate 50 points down i don't think. >> so how are they doing in the new hampshire primary? >> he lost to the guy in massachusetts. >> that doesn't prove anything, does it? makes your point in a way. thank you so much. good work there. i love the media market stuff. i love the migration stuff. and the working community. i went to school in wooster. i agree. just five hours to the big new hampshire debate on msnbc. the panel, in about a minute, weighs on what both clinton and sanders need to do to win this thing. somebody will win that debate tonight, and somebody's going to lose it. be right back. marie callender believes that her chicken pot pie is the perfect ingredient for catching up with family. so she takes the time to prepare a perfectly flaky crust made from scratch, and mixes crisp vegetables with
visit to an american mosque is triggering criticism from some 2016 republicans up here in new hampshire. during his visit wednesday, the president called for unity among communities of faith. but marco rubio accused the president of pitting people against each other. >> always pitting people against each other. always. he gave a speech at a mosque. basically implying that america is discriminating against muslims. of course there's discrimination in america of every kind. but the bigger issue is radical islam. and radical islam posees a threat to muslims themselves. they will argue that. they will tell that you. but this constant pitting people against each other. >> at the national prayer breakfast early today president barack obama didn't respond to that direct criticism but did encourage people not to give in to fear. >> it is a primal emotion, fear. one that we all experience. and it can be contagious.
spreading through societies. and through nations. for me, and i know for so many of you. faith is the great cure for fear. >> the prayer breakfast has been a tradition in this country for presidents. especially since 1953 under president eisenhower. we'll be right back with our panel after this. ♪ (cell phone rings) where are you? well the squirrels are back in the attic. mom? your dad won't call an exterminator... can i call you back, mom? he says it's personal this time... if you're a mom, you call at the worst time. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. where are you? it's very loud there. are you taking a zumba class?
post." a great group of people here. how's it going to be called tonight? there's going to be a winner, it's two-person race, binary, somebody wins every time somebody lands a punch someone feels the pain. it's a boxing match. >> i think we'll hear hillary making an argument how to that bernie sanders has effectively tied her in iowa he's a contender and he needs to be vetted. she's arguing he hasn't gotten scrutiny so far because people haven't taken him seriously, he's her only competition. she's going to be zero in. she's a strong debater. >> the target, right on wrong, his ideology, his self-described socialist mentality. she thinks that, is she going after that or little stuff which she goes after little targets like his relatively pro-gun position. but he's not really a pro-gun guy. it's not like she goes after the
big target of ideology. will she do that tonight? will she question the far left to wing? >> the argument you hear her making on the trail is within for a type of comment sense criminalism. >> as opposed -- >> to radical revolutionary change. bernie sanders says, too. there is a difference in the sort of theory of social change here. and you do hear hillary make that case on the trail. the question is, does that sell with the democratic base that is more liberal now than eight years ago, that does seem to want radical change, so will she say that in the debate where she has this tricky dance on the one hadn't, she's saying not far left enough on certain things like guns and other hand he's too disruptive, radical. >> do you think she can make something of his general presentation, that overwhelming enthusiasm he gets greeted with when he makes calls to arms? >> i don't think she'll go for
the presentation as much as electability argument. you can see this morning when her campaign manager and spokesman talking about a general election with senator sanders at the helm and didn't mention, for instance, what it would be like with $100 million plus advertising against them by republicans. >> just a hundred. >> hundreds. >> a billion. >> playing with "b." they're saying, listen, ideology might be -- degrees of progressive, but if you want to go down that path in the general election, you are rolling the proverbial dice. >> who does bernie get that hillary wouldn't give the general, bernie or hillary? who would he bring into an election booth, kids, college kids but they'll probably go for hillary after the thing gets started. doesn't he only have a substrakz from her. >> he would get -- >> he will bring in voters who
weren't voting before. it's the argument on right and left. if we have somebody who is full-throated enough we can bring in voters on the sidelines. it not often been true if american politics at presidential level. >> well said. you think that working class -- >> his campaign's argument -- >> they say that, of course. >> i'm reflecting my reporting -- >> do you think socialist works for those guys? >> no. >> it sounds commie. >> it's fair to say senator sanders has not faced the scrutiny that hillary clinton has. >> but if it's an ideological -- >> labels will be vulnerability. >> we understand, if she goes after him, she's challenging his people, which is tricky, because she needs his people. at some point she's got to cut her losses and say, look, i'm not putting up with this. you're too far left to be democratic nominee. and by the way, i don't believe in your philosophy, it's too far left for me. >> part of her campaign's calculus, early primary states
are well aligned for bernie sanders as democratic socialist. as you go down the calendar, it doesn't work as well. >> nevada? >> nevada's different. but look at -- >> different easier or tougher for bernie. >> nevada's easier for bern n. than southern states. >> i don't agree. >> you don't? >> i was a reporter for nevada in five years. hillary clinton's infrastructure is a democratic machine state. it's a state -- it's a caucus that not a lot of people know about. with the establishment support that hillary has -- >> all of the pit bosses -- the large hispanic population. >> are they going to vote for socialist? >> i think in a democratic primary hispanic voters, service industry voters, the back of the house voters in the casinos, i saw bil walk through casinos in 2008 shaking hands -- she's got a great test there. >> a lot of great tests coming. this game ain't over yet.
thank you. and thanks to everybody. that does it for me this hour. see you back here for "hardball" at 7:00 and coverage before and after the debate. i'm on four, five hours tonight. the main event is a great one. it's a mono amm-amma a mono. that's not a split screen. they're right next to each other, within a couple of feet. one will be the democratic nominee, the other will go with no cigars, with na dfltda, exce loss. sanders versus clinton, clinton versus sanders, durham, south carolina, new hampshire. brian williams picks up coverage right now. that is cyber-crime and it affects each and every one of us. microsoft created the digital crimes unit to fight cyber-crime. we use the microsoft cloud to visualize information so we can track down the criminals. when it comes to the cloud, trust and security are paramount.
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ask, how stupid can the people of new hampshire be. >> marco rubio is a gifted politician. his life has been around his own ambitions. >> lift one accomplishment, just one, just one. >> i don't know. that's what they offered. >> you can't go with your a moderate one day and be a progressive on the other day. >> the sound and the fury of modern american politics, brian williams here with you from new york for the following hour of politicking news. it's already been an epic day of politics, and we are hardly done with it. so much of today in new hampshire is about tonight in new hampshire. more on that in just a moment. but that is our debate hall tonight on the campus of the university of new hampshire. moderated by chuck todd, rachel maddow, 9:00 p.m. eastern time. this is notable because it's the first and only time the two democratic candidates, clinton and sanders, will face each
other in debate and be judged by the folks who are going to go to the polls in new hampshire next week. as for the state of new hampshire, small as it is, it was spanned from end to end today by candidates and the news media who cover them. and as we come on the air this afternoon, we have news. we have a brand-new nbc news/"wall street journal"/marist poll showing exactly where this race is. with our correspondents and analysts fanned out to cover it today, begin in the studio with steve kornacki. what are the numbers? >> let's take you to them. a couple days after iowa, we have a read of the new hampshire tech lore rate on the democratic side all after iowa. take a look. bernie sanders, 58, hillary clinton, 38. a 20-point lead for bernie sanders coming out of that essentially tie in iowa, a very slight lead for hillary clinton.
we'll go inside these numbers and show you where this is coming from. this margin is unchanged from where things stood in new hampshire before iowa. so it doesn't look like iowa had any major effect one way or the other. if you break it down, you see interesting things. first, we saw this in the results in iowa and seeing this in new hampshire. in age gap, the youngest voters, 18 to 29-year-olds in new hampshire, look at this, a 3-1 margin, going for bernie sanders over hillary clinton, 76/24. the only age group at this point hillary clinton is leading among in new hampshire the 60 and older. you see seven-point lead for her there. also, when you look at gender, an interesting finding among men in new hampshire, a 70-25 lead for bernie sanders over hillary clinton. he also leads, among women, but it is a much closer race there, 50 for sanders, 46 for clinton. how about this? the map of new hampshire here, highlight one county in particular. so this is hillsboro county,
where nashua is, suburbs are, right on the massachusetts border. this is the county in 2008, when hillary clinton had that come from behind victory in new hampshire, when she beat barack obama, this the county that was the heart of her margin on election night, primary night 2008. a county that has gone with the winner in every new hampshire primary since 1968. a key county to look at. this poll polled hillsboro county 49-47, bernie sanders. what he has done, you see in that big lead he has, but you see it right here. he has eaten into the heart of hillary clinton's base in new hampshire. this was the heart of her margin in 2008. bernie sanders now leading in hillsboro. the headline again, here we are on the eve of the debate, tonight, 20-point lead for bernie sanders over hillary clinton in new hampshire. >> steve, last night hillary clinton addressed the age gap, saying that young people, young voters, don't need to be for
her. she will, however, be for them. she did not address this gender gap that just in your initial look in your numbers is staggering. >> we can she you again. again, 70/25, a 45-moint lead for bernie sanders among men. four-point lead among women. that's interesting. you say it's a big gap. but he is campaigning, even among women, we are ahead. this is something when you look back to 2008, you look at the obama/clinton race, you didn't see gaps this big among key demographic groups, certainly not the young/old gap. a gender gap this sizable. that is something new. seeing polar opposites sometimes when you break these groups down. >> steve kornacki at the board to start off coverage. thank you. let's check in with our correspondent covering the clinton campaign, white house corner kristen welker is there. where to begin?
chris matthews in the last hour saying something that is often forgotten but very true. there's going to have to be a winner tonight and a loser tonight. the stakes couldn't be larger, especially for hillary clinton on the ground she can now clearly see she has to run in front of her. >> reporter: absolutely right, brian. the stakes couldn't be higher. she didn't have a whole lot of momentum coming out of iowa, eked out that apparent victory there. looking to catch up and close that huge gap that steve kornacki just reported on. you can feel the anticipation building. at university of in p in new hampshire. behind me is where the debate's going to be held. the paul creative center. in just a few hours, it will be packed with journalists and the candidates themselves, as we speak. we know that the candidates are in their final preparations getting prepared for this all-important event tonight. it's the first time the two of them are going to face off just the two of them. of course, you know this better
than anyone, brian, the media also getting prepared. take a look at all of the live trucks, as far as the eye can see. the media getting excited. and i should tell you, i've been on campus here, students, professors coming up to me and saying they feel honored and excited the debate is taking place here tonight. you can feel anticipation building. we're getting some of the first comments from secretary clinton after the iowa win in "time" magazine, she's on the cover. let me read a little bit. she said, i don't think i would have won iowa if i hadn't spent a lot of time in small groupers answering lots of questions, listening to people, important points in politics, it the stories that drive your passion, people you've met along the way, it's their worries, hopes, troubles. they get you up in the morning. so, that is what we're hearing from secretary clinton. as we've been talking about, she's clearly failing to connect with younger voters. and a comment she made last night is raising eyebrows and
could be at issue during tonight's debate. take a listen about getting money, getting paid for speeches while she -- after she left the state department. take a listen. >> look, i made speeches to lots of groups. i told them what i thought. i answered questions. >> but did you you have to be paid $675,000? >> well, i don't know. that's what they offered. so -- to be honest, i wasn't -- i wasn't committed to running. i didn't -- i didn't know whether i would. >> you didn't think you were going to run for president? >> i didn't. >> brian, that exchange getting some criticism. i wouldn't be surprised if we heard senator sanders raise that point this evening. this sort of goes to the debate that we've been talking about throughout the week, which is the argument over who is the bigger progressive. senator sanders would point to an exchange like that to argue he's the bigger progressive. secretary clinton of course would dispute that. a lot to discuss, everything
from progressivism to the economy and wall street. there will be fireworks. >> all right. kristen welker, covering the clinton campaign at the debate site tonight. thanks. kasie hunt is inside the spin room for post-debate coverage. perish the thought of having a debate without all of us being told what to think about the debate by the various spinners afterwards. >> reporter: yes, this is the spin room that we at msnbc have set up here. it's a little bit quiet still. some of our what -- maybe i'm biased, best tech folks in the business who have been here for many, many hours. they nicely lit our fireplace so we won't get cold. and of course we're broadcasting from this set over here later this evening. but of course, all eyes on that debate stage, first one-on-one, between bernie sanders and hillary clinton. and i spoke with some of bernie sanders' top advises today.
they say expect more fireworks on that issue of who is more progressive. i want you to take a listen quickly where we stand at this exchange right now. here you go. >> i do not know any progressive who has a super pac and takes $15 million from wall street. that's just not progressive. >> i was somewhat amused today that senator sanders set himself up to be a gate keeper on who's a progressive. under the definition that was flying around on twitter and statements by the campaign, barack obama would not be a progressive, joe biden would not be a progressive. >> reporter: some question, of course, in my mind, as to whether or not bernie sanders would say that the president was progress in, that's something that could touch off more conversation around this. but, we're -- there's issues, as well, for the sanders campaign looking back a little bit. the new "des moines register" editorial talking about how something smells is their
headline in the democratic party asking for more auditing of those results. razor-thin. and as well as some discussion among the sanders campaign as far asseting expectations. the question being, if the margin here in new hampshire is that close, as it was in iowa, who does that amount to a win for? is it bernie sanders? is it hillary clinton? so much of new hampshire is an expectations game. i was at a bloomberg politics this morning with the campaign manager for hillary clinton's campaign, he acknowledged, even if there is that razor-thin margin a win would be a win but we can expect them to spin both here and elsewhere that that is not quite the case. >> kasie hunt in the spin room, fire in the fireplace, likely to be a lot of heat generated on the stage as well. let's go to chris matthews who is standing by, part of our team in new hampshire. chris, a lot to discuss with you. first off, the definition of this word "progressive" you know the people who you aren't like
you and me, follow politics every four years, say, think is is a brand of auto insurance. where did this come from? what's the definition? why does it matter? >> well, it's changing all the time. of course, historically, progressive meant someone who is on the moderate side of the more activist side of the republican party in the early 20th century. teddy roosevelt, the progress inparty of that era. by 1948 it became a label which was a bit out of favor, a party led by henry wallace, who was knocked off of the ticket in '44 because he was too far left, a guy that didn't believe we're on the right side of the cold war. blamed the cold war on western imperialism. certainly the hard left of harry truman. and now, progressive is used, i guess, in many cases, simply as what liberal used to be called a person to the left of the democratic center. but it's used now by bernie sanders, very handily, as label
from for himself. if you're a socialist, it's clear, you believe in government solutions to a lot of problems. you may believe in the market but you believe in a lot of programs, a lot more distribution, redistribution of income in case of social security, benefits to people who may not have paid in as much. talk about health care, a right for life. you talk about all colleges and big state universities being -- state universities being free of tuition costs. these are big government commitments and basically not market solutions. now, when you get into the debate who's the most progressive, what they're saying -- i think bernie sanders would admit this if you go him to slow down -- he'd say i mean more lib reral more left. hillary's not as far left. we had his spokesman saying he's for radical revolutionary change. that's a strange pitch to make in a general election come next far to say you're the party of
radical revolution. that's going to be, let's say, unsettling to a lot of people in the middle. >> i need to ask you about this story that came out to greet everybody during the political day. state department officials, as part of looking into hillary clinton's e-mails on a private server, have determined that classified information was sent to the personal e-mail accounts of secretary of state colin powell and condoleezza rice. this was the story nbc news broke. the question continues to be, does this, as they say in the business, have legs? did the original charge against hillary clinton in addition to being just a cloud that follows her throughout the clam pain? >> right. well, i think people who are fair-minded, especially as we get closer, look at this list of candidates. it almost down to five if you count both sides politically. down to a few people that might be the next president. you've got to measure charges and put them against larger question, who do you agree with
philosophic philosophically. the charge she may have been wrong in using personal e-mail for government business is not a central question about whether she's worth anything morally. it's not a charge of immorality. it's not a charge certainly of criminality. you can say she's was reckless but that's a pretty strong charge to throw at somebody who chose to use an e-mail system which she was thought backed up and everything she put through or received would have been picked by somebody else in the department and logged by them. so, to try to find immorality or sleaze, i find it very hard to find it. certainly she would say she made a mistake. i think her bigger challenge, to answer the question generally, u think $800,000 question tonight, how do you explain taking that kind of money from goldman sachs? one company. now, our business, you can't take outside income now at nbc.
i can tell you that, even if it's for charity. can't do it any more because of the appearance. members of congress, many limited means, had to vote years ago, to forgo any outside income through speaking fees. they had to give up all of the outside income. people like ed muskie respected, i need this for tuition bills, had to give it all up. a long history now of avoiding this kind of bad appearance of taking money for speaking fees because people think, and they're not right about this, that somehow if you give a speech for money the guy or woman who hired you, write an editorial that makes my case, can you say something on air that makes my case. there's a justified appearance that you're on the take. and that's why interests like media and politicians don't take speaking fees. now, in fairness, reagan took $2
million from the ja neepanese a cutting that japanese trade deal after he left office. a lot of questions to go around not just for hillary, other people's e-mails. ronald reagan's speaking fees. >> thank you for that. and i suspect you're right, it's one thing for bernie sanders to raise this speaking fee issue that came up last night on the campaign trail. it would be quite different to watch it while standing next to each other tonight in the very cozy confines of a debate. miles to go before we sleep. you have the countdown clock in the lower right-hand corner. chris on the air 7:00 eastern time with "hardball" and then the pregame hour, prior to the debate, and then the debate. 9:00 p.m. eastern time. there's the venue. there's the hall. as i mentioned, co-moderated by our own chuck todd and rachel maddow. a break for us.
live political coverage continues on the other side. >> so important is our
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ask our road warrior, veteran, katy tur on and off with donald trump covering the campaign for the past seven months. she's with us by telephone from one of the beautiful spots in new hampshire, portsmouth. we've seen a split look from trump campaign last 24 hours. the kind of ongoing, continuing attack on rivals namely ted cruz but also this web video came out today, out of nowhere, full-throated defense of the second amendment, i.e. gun rights. >> reporter: yeah. what we're hearing today is donald trump's not necessarily attacking ted cruz full-on today. he hasn't called him out by name. what we did see in the really earlier was that he, as you played, made a veiled reference, not so veiled reference, to anchor babies and saying he knew one anchor baby, that is basically ted cruz what he was trying to imply. we are seeing him sort of move forward in the campaign today,
trying to focus in on new hampshire, trying to not talk about his polls, manage expectations. but he is still bringing -- being drawn into the fight with ted cruz and ted cruz is hitting him now for a compliment that jimmy carter made for him. take a listen. >> if i had
a choice between cruz and trump, i think i would choose trump. the reason is that trump has proven already that he's completely valuable. i don't think he has any fixed opinions he would go to the white house and fight for, on the other hand, ted cruz is not valuable. >> reporter: what ted cruz is trying to imply, he has principles, he's going to pick up on the principles, the guy on the campaign trail is the guy you will see when he gets into office. what shehe's trying to say is donald trump is no the who you think he is. he will change when he gets into
office. he said he's against a gun ban now, he might be for it later. that's something ted cruz is trying to paint as a negative. but in some ways donald trump tries to paint himself in that way, in a positive light, saying you need to work with congress, you need to make deals and sometimes in order to make a deal you have to compromise. and his criticism is ted cruz is that he won't be able to compromise, he won't be able to reach across the aisle, he wouldn't be able to get anything done. he'll be like president obama and he'll have to sign executive orders. this is left for the voters to decide who they want to see in office, somebody who will end up for principles, regardless whether or not he's going to get somebody done or somebody who is able to make deals. there are a lot of voters who like both of those thoughts. there are voters who feel like they've been left behind in congress, voters who feel like their politicians have lied to
them, not held their values and voters frustrated with the inability for congress to get anything done. we've had a few conferences, past few they haven't gotten any legislation passed. what are we going to see in the voting booths in new hampshire next week? we'll see them decide between a number of candidates but who do they think is going to get things done and reach across the aisle and make america not just great again or legislate again or someone's who going to stand up for values. >> katy tur covering the trump campaign. where the cruz campaign is concerned, i guess, there have been worst slogans than vote for our guy, he's not mal-leeable, ask a former president. thanks. let's check in with the rubio campaign. gabe gutierrez is covering the rubio campaign. today finds him, at least this hour, in salem, new hampshire. gabe?
>> reporter: hi, brian. good afternoon. yesterday at this time, we said hi to you from a bar following marco rubio around. here's a bit of a different feel. here in an elementary school cafeteria, his fourth town hall of the day. and as you can see here, they're setting up the stage now. this town hall will be different than others because it will be in the round. the stage being set up, chairs all around him, he'll be able to enact with voters. throughout the day, he's -- had several town halls and he got several questions from voters and the big kri teaqcritique hi campaign has been scripted. he's responded repeatedly trying to stay on message, he's the best candidate to take on the democrats. focus attacks mostly on the democrats, as really brushed off any opportunity to critique donald trump, for example. this morning, though, rick santorum, who he got his
endorsement last night, on "morning joe" struggled to come up with accomplishents that marco rubio had during his time in the senate. we asked him about that during his gaggle this afternoon with reporters. here's what he had to say. >> bottom line, i'm proud of my service of public record. we have real achievements not in the u.s. senate but in my time as speaker in the house and legislature. the campaign's about the future, not the past. we're focusing on moving forward. >> we had to press him on specifics. he did talk about how he worked on eminent domain legislation in florida. he says he led the effort to fight the obamacare bailout fund though critics have said other lawmakers were more on the forefront of that. but he says he's adamant that he led that effort. so, a lot of critiques from his critics, chris christie bounced on this. so has jeb bush. somebody else in his campaign
said he's very proud of his bill talking about sanctions against hezbollah. jeb bush says that was a unanimous vote. a lot of questions remain about his experience. marco rubio is trying to focus on that argument that this is a three-person race in the republican field between him, ted cruz, and donald trump and he is comfortable making that argument, argument to his supporters he's the most electable if he does move on and face either of the democrats, hillary clinton or bernie sanders. >> gabe gutierrez, in the case of 24 hours, from a tavern to the friendlier confines of a middle school cafeteria. gabe covering the rubio campaign. another break for us. live team coverage of politics and the race in new hampshire continues right after this. >> but he's been in the senate for four years. can you name his top accomplishment in the senate,
actually working in the senate doing something that tilted your decision to marco rubio? >> you know, here's what i would say about that, my feeling on marco is someone who has tremendous potential, tremendous gifts, if you look at being minority in the united states senate in a year -- four years nothing got done, it's hard to say there are accomplishments. dad, you can just drop me off right here. oh no, i'll take you up to the front of the school. that's where your friends are. seriously, it's, it's really fine. you don't want to be seen with your dad? no, it's..no.. this about a boy? dad! stop, please. oh, there's tracy. what! [ horn honking ] [ tires screech ] bye dad! it brakes when you don't. forward collision warning and autonomous emergency braking.
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talk about what to expect tonight and also the work these candidates have ahead of them. andrea, we started the hour with some breaking news, our new poll numbers, it will be the last poll going into tonight, showing among other things, we knew an age gap was president in the iowa results. we hadn't seen the gender gap in such stark relief before these numbers. >> in fact, hillary clinton, who has spent her life working on women's issues, who brought women's issues into the state department, and a global way, is four points behind bernie sanders with women. they're in a virtual tie. but that is astounding. women have always been her base. it's even worse for her with young people. she was behind with young people in iowa, with young women, by 70 points in iowa. here, we don't have detail on young women, but young voters, 52-point gap between bernie sanders and hillary clinton. and she was asked last night at
that cnn forum about that very fact. she said i know i've got work to do with young women to explain what i've done my whole life, what i can do for them but she's not communicating a message that seems to be working. the sanders campaign has been much more effective online, social media, snapchat. a more aggressive social media presence. this is a real problem and i think what's interesting to me, a couple of days ago, first day she was in new hampshire i ran into women i know well, old clinton supporters had driven up here from new york and washington, here to rally around her about were telling me privately how they feel she's lost her voice, that she sounded too strident in her campaigning in iowa, and then yesterday we began to see a much softer tone in the afternoon, and then last night, still more personal, talking about how she relies on a jesuit parable as a lifeline getting through difficult times going back through the white
house years. she doesn't talk about that much, barely wrote about it in her memoir, and here talking about it on television to an audience here. it was pretty stunning how personal she got, talking about her faith, responding to a question from a rabbi in the audience, talking about how she every day she struggles between hillary clinton who is to come out roar, watch me roar, go back to the old song, and the hillary clinton who wants to sort of shrink back and say, take me off the stage. that it's hard for her. it's a very different insight. that, of course, she completely messed up, frankly, overshadowed by her comment about the goldman sachs fees for speeches, $675,000. when anderson cooper asked her about that, which has been a big talking point for bernie sanders, she said, she was asked why did you take $675,000 from
goldman sachs for a couple of speeches and she said, well, that's what they offered. very cavalier, that was the impact. twitter lit up and immediately that became the headline from an otherwise really pretty brilliant performance last night. she's got her work cut out for her tonight. >> first of all, i'm thinking, helen ready is smiling wherever she is. >> yes. thank you. >> bernie sanders campaign, i'm watching chris matthews' previous hour and it was striking to have the sanders national campaign spokeswoman, we've -- we know it and kind of heard it, but to hear her use the expression ratd cal revolutionary change, and it stopped chris in his tracks. chris being a veteran of politics was thinking ahead to the general. if he's the nominee, how exactly do you run against the republican opponent with a phrase of radical revolutionary change in this current
atmosphere? >> well, in fact, i talked to a top white house official about that last week and about the difficulty she was having in iowa, and this official, brilliant political strategist said, that's okay, she's going to be the nominee, and this will work for her in a general election. it just isn't working so well right now in the primaries. let's face it, iowa, new hampshire, 4% of the dell bait delegates. she goes to nevada, it's a caucus state. he does well in caucus states, we think. south carolina, that's expected to be the beginning of her fire wall. then you've got southern states, march 1st primaries, march 15th. yes, he'll have union support in nevada, michigan, some other states but i think that she will begin to come into her own, especially with minorities with the african-american vote. >> andrea mitchell, prior to tonight's debate, a whole new
set of things to talk about. the moment it is over. always a pleasure. thanks. another break for us. talking about some of the other names in the race in new hampshire, not just that, but folks who want and expect to do well. people like jeb bush, that and more when we come back. >> marco rubio has been a politician since he was 26 years old. gifted beyond belief. but he's not from the outside. he's been a career politician. there's nothing in his record that would suggest that he could make a tough decision and i don't think we need people cutting and running anymore. we need somebody that goes to the fire, challenges things that are broken, that brings people together to forge consensus, my experience is one of a disrupter in the largest swing state in the country and that's the story i tell and it seems to resonate as we begin to see more and more people moving my way. [ sneezing ]
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. all sorts of payback, you know. always a child of a mother no matter if you're 62 or 12, right? >> worried about stories? >> limitations has run out. you can't report. >> jeb bush talking about the impending arrival of his mother, not just any mother, by the way. wife of a former president of the united states, mother of a former president of the united states, and if jeb bush has his way, mother of two presidents of the united states. kelly o'donnell along with us to talk about the bush campaign hoping for resurgence in his place, new hampshire, that is still home to at least a dependable bloc of the mainstream republican party.
kelly? >> brian, i think what we're rolling along with jeb bush on his campaign bus for about a hundred miles today. this is just a quick stop off. i think the car's idling outside, as we head to the event that will have barbara bush making her first appearance on the campaign trail. when i sat down with governor bush today, we talked about his mom and what she could bring to this, not just any family member coming to the campaign trail, but at first we talked about some of the kind of rough and tumble issues of the campaign, where he finds himself now. we know he's raised a ton of money but hasn't produced a ton of results yet. i asked him about that. he said he knows there is some pushback from the sort of establishment when i asked about isn't it time to consolidate? do you hear voices saying perhaps the establishment lane should coalesce around someone and some would say maybe marco rubio, after his bump from iowa. well, jeb bush didn't want any of that. he said, no, there hasn't been
voting in a primary yet. there are miles to go. he's got resources, the will and the fight to keep going. he was very quick to say he's very different than marco rubio. taking to task the senator from florida, for not having much in his resume. here's what governor bush said. >> every candidate has to have their record examined, every candidate has to earn it. there should be no coronations here. my case is i'm a conservative and i've proved it by doing it, being a governor of state where i applied conservative principles. marco rubio is a gifted politician, but his whole life has been around his own ambition. he's gifted he can turn a phrase well. but what he has he done? what has he done? >> what has he done? that refrain is echoed by chris christie and is the argument for those who have that executive experience of being a governor against a first-term senator. turning to tonight, it's maybe a softer in the bush parlance,
kinder, gentler campaign event with barbara bush, who has been happy to have her private life. jeb bush telling me she volunteered to come out. it won't be a barnstorming kind of thing. she's now 90 years old. it is a town hall meeting tonight here in new hampshire. she wants to be there for him. and when i asked, are you embracing the bush ligeegacy wi the complicated history that presents in an outsider year. he said she's my mom, i love her, my best grassroots support somewhere happy to have her tonight. many people want to see her and he's going to enjoy perhaps having a little of the mother magic, if it's there, tonight. we'll have to see. it's been a long time since barbara bush has been on a campaign trail. jeb bush will be the son, topp not just the candidate. >> kelly o'donnell covering all of it for us. thanks. another break. when we come back, our conversation with a member of an esteemed political family in new
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you can't buy integrity and you can't buy integrity with negative ads, even rubio attacked me. they're all attacking me because they're afraid. i think what they're afraid of -- you try to say he's an establishment candidate -- you know who really fears me? the establishment. because i've never been comfortable with them and they've never been comfortable with me. >> ohio governor john kasich, longtime member from that state. ohio has given the united states eight presidents. john kasich would like that number very much to be nine. with us now, the chair of his campaign effort in new hampshire, a member of the gop political aristocracy there, former senator john sununu. thank you for coming on the air with us. it strikes me that new hampshire in has this voting bloc that likes their candidates serious,
earnest, and retail. woo know john kasich is serious. we know he's earnest. but is he -- is he retail in the sense of debating which new hampshire diner has the best open-faced turkey sandwich? >> absolutely. his weapon of choice is the fried clam and new england clam chowder and he will definitely tell you where the top ten rankings are. and not just manchester or concord, but tell you where to go in alton, wolvesbo aro and petey's. he is retail. he is unconventional but one of the most effective leaders i've ever worked with a. he gets things done. he has a great story to tell about cutting taxes and balancing the budget net ohio, turning that state's economy around and he'll do the same thing as president of the u.s. >> do you think the national media, god forbid this has never
happened, missing the boat in wasting their time covering the trump war with cruz, the attacks on rubio coming from christie and others? >> of course you're wasting your time to a certain extent. i don't think that's what voters want to hear about. somebody chairing a campaign, it's important that voters understand the way that john kasich is has used conservative principles to turn around the state of h. ohio, the proposal he has to take money and power out of washington. if the media has made one big mistake, it's it incredible amount of time you've devoted to donald trump, pumping him up in iowa to see voters disappear and fade away. i don't know if that's because you misread what was happening because your pollsters wanted to show donald trump on top, but obviously he lost in iowa. he's going to lose here in new hampshire. and the question is, where are those late-breaking, late deciders going to go? it's half of the elect terre e.
i think they'll go to john kasich, who doesn't need on the job training, who has done this before, who can land the plane, and will bring the vision to the country's economy that we really need right now. >> when you're john kasich, is "the new york times" endorsement a help or hindrance, or does it not matter up there? >> it doesn't matter in new hampshire. what helps is having the endorsement of the nashua telegraph, the endorsement of the portsmouth herald, the concord monitor, endorsement of fosters daily democrat over in dover, one of the more conservative, most conservative papers in all of new hampshire. those are the endorsements that matter because they represent the views and the thoughts and ideas of new hampshire voters, and the fact of the matter is new hampshire is a great barometer for the rest of the country. it has in the past. i think it will be in the primary campaign as well. and it's -- it's about the leadership qualities and the
effectiveness that john kasich has shown time and again throughout his career. he talked, as you showed on the clip, about the establishment being uncomfortable with him. that's because he went in, willing to expose pentagon, wasteful spending, reform the pentagon, kill the b-2, put that money else w., take on welfare reform, cut taxes. in balancing the budget, take on any sacred cow that needs to be taken on to get the job done. a lot of people aren't comfortable about that but it's the thing that drew me to as a leader. he was the effective leader i wanted to be when i was in congress. i think he's going to be a great president. >> former senator john sununu, appearing on behalf of his friend, john kasich. good to see you again. we will pause here. take a break. our coverage when we come back, much adieu about one word in democratic part terminology.
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on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. where are you? it's very loud there. are you taking a zumba class? bernie's way, he knows what's affecting people. >> i don't think there's any candidate worth my vote. >> tamron hall with vote there's in an instantly recognizable intersection, manchester, new hampshire. msnbc host chris hayes is with us from manchester. the question of the hour, on the
democratic side of the ledger, progressive, a lot of people think is auto insurance and it couldn't be more important in the left hand branch of the democratic party. so, what is the debate about and what's the status effective today if i assuming we'll area about it tone. >> reporter: i mean i think the debate ends up being who gets to call themselves a progressive and where the center of gravity in the democratic party is. the term progressive was readopted by people in the center left in the democratic party, people quite liberal, around the 19 -- early 1990s particularly when the word "liberal" came to be viewed as politically toxic. if you were attacked as tax and spend liberal, the word had to be abandoned in favor of progressive. it's expanded to basically be used by all sorts of folks who probably wouldn't call themselves liberal.
i doubt hillary clinton, i think, would call herself a liberal for those reasons of political baggage. the debate is whether progressive means people at left flank of the modern democratic coalition or everybody who is in the non stream of that democratic coalition is ai progressive. hillary clinton is in the mainstream of the democratic coalition. bernie sanders is with the exception of the issue of guns the left most region of the modern democratic coalition. there's a battle to whom that label better applies. >> as you say, assi everyone is assuming we'll hear more about the term, the argument, who is the progressive, during tone. debate. chris hayes with us from manchester, chris, thank you, always a pleasure. one last reminder here, for this hour, and that is, tonight, 9:00 eastern time, the face-to-face debate, prior to voters going to the polls in the first in the
nation primary in new hampshire, moderated by chuck todd and rachel maddow. that is tonight at 9:00. but as we say, miles to go before we sleep. up income, tamron hall filling in today as host of "mtp daily." if it's thursday, it's debate night. clinton versus sanders. their first one-on-one debate. their one before the new hampshire primary. the stakes couldn't be higher. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now! >> good evening, welcome to "mtp daily." i'm tamron hall. chuck todd prepping for the main event, moderating with rachel maddow, the first one-on-one