tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC February 4, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm PST
from the first one and only new hampshire primary. joining me for special coverage of the democratic debate continues. our team enters the final hour before the event begins. this is the first, only and last time they will be together face-to-face, side by said on the stage in debate. certainly the last before the voters go to the poll.
clinton. we know we have a burn barner campaign on the republican side. no one expect add barn burner on the democratic side. that would be trump and cruz. a lot of them were chanting the establishment. you thought the republican part as an constitution was this trouble. now in recent days do you find him really taking on hillary clinton and women as a gender will support hillary.
i am surprise. the sanders campaign has been so successful in focusing on the issues. i think we're what seeing in this campaign is the fall out of years of overloaning kids money, young people. it's as if they are hit with a huge tax and they all become conservatives because they don't want to pay high tax. they are moving left. i think it's probably all local. young people don't make a lot of money, don't worry about taxes. i think that's really burdening them down. >> you theorize that another big topic might be the money secretary clinton accepted in speaking fees from goldman sachs. >> i think it's the $400,000
question. there's no answer. the transaction had nothing to do with children or the public good or being a good progressive. it's money in her pocket. she took huge money. she had a good agent. got good money, huge amounts. the problem she faces is united states congress, senate and house, years ago decided as bodies they can't take outside income. you can't take. no more, not a nickel. you can't do it because it looks like you're getting paid for something beyond that hour of speech making. even though that's not the case, it looks like. people in our field can't do it. the public sees it as a much bigger transaction than light up our convention so everybody can brag. that's what it's really about. conventions and organizations that the brag. to most people you make $400,000
an hour and they make $400,000 in eight years. they wonder what's going on here. they think something smells. she's got to answer that question tonight. it's a toughy. >> chris matthews will be with us all the way tonight and then some. he's doing the post debate coverage after the debate is over in new hampshire. we'll be coming back to you. we want to go to andrea mitchell and talk about numbers that came out this afternoon. the latest, the last round of polling before this debate tonight. the nbc news wall street journal poll, some bad news in there for secretary clinton on the age gap and the gender gap. >> the gender gap is the most remarkable thing. hillary clinton spent her whole life on women's issues. she created the office of women's affairs. now we see that she is four points behind bernie sanders
with women. it's narrow lead, but it's with women. that's her base. when you drill down those numbers, 29 points behind with young women. that is an extraordinary number for hillary clinton. overall with young people 52 points behind. she's got a real problem with young people and with women and not surprisingly, just a few minutes ago they put out the schedule for tomorrow. she's going to be with jean shahen, ahead of emily's list and all these other women campaigning for her and lilly ledbetter who is the iconic woman from the equal pay and losses that led to the supreme court case. that is what she's focusing on. that's why i think we heard, i know we heard a softer tone from her today and last night. we have to see whether she goes up against bernie sanders in a firing way or whether she realizes that he's popular and
with that popularity that's some risks in taking him down tonight. >> andrea mitchell part of our team covering the debate. let's go do casey hunt in the spin room on the university of new hampshire campus where all the the experts and would be experts will be headed after this event. casey. >> a lot of would be experts at any event like this, brian. bernie sanders, a lot on the line here tonight. he spent much of today huddled in a hotel conference room with his top aid and yellow legal pad. he and his wife took a walk in the morning. he rallied supporters at a get out and vote rally not far from here. keeping up his jab there at hillary clinton, continuing tuk about this issue of who is a real progressive. i think the question tonight for sanders is this expectation that he comes into this as the front-runner. if you think about the appeal
he's been able to generate in this race, a lot of it seem to come, in part at least, from the idea he's the underdog and so easy to root for an underdog. that's a big part of his message that's he's taking on the political establishment. he's even say taking on the clinton machine, specifically. it's one of the most difficult things he's doing here. while those numbers that andrea was just walking through are great for him, they're likely to tighten over the next week and that could pose a challenge in itself. >> kasie, mark has made a point that he's been able to pull that equation off in the democratic election. voters want to know are you one of them or one of us. bernie sanders of brooklyn new york, via university of chicago, via new england, specifically, vermont, a democratic socialist, an independent in the senate has managed to pull off, i'm with you. >> he has. that's absolutely right. i think in new hampshire, it's
particular resonate. this is some of the kids i was talking to on this campus today said i identify as a socialist, which to be honest with you, is not something that those of us who spent a lot of time focused on the debate in washington really expected to hear voters say. that has showed up in the polling as well. i think for sanders, his personality also fits this state. i think that's going to be potentially another challenge for him on stage tonight. we've seen in these big debate nights sometimes his personality is known for being impatient and something a little sharp or gruff. that can come across as charming and authentic. if he goes too far or sounds like he's yelling, that has the potential to create a difficult moment for him. >> kasie hunt, thanks. we wanted to get a lay of the land going into tonight's debate. we're within an hour to go. chris jansen is inside the
arena. a lot of people don't realize auditoriums don't come pre-decorated for msnbc sponsored debates. all of this, signage, monitors, lighting has to be flown in and set up. sometimes just 72 hours in advance. >> let's just say not a lot of people got a lot of sleep. at least those behind the scenes. those inside this creative arts center, there's a buzz and excitement. people cannot wait for this debate to get started. you can see the cameras are all ready to go? >> ready to go. >> he didn't know i was going to come there. there's the jib. you can see the balcony where chris matthews is sitting. the energy, energy that we're looking for is going to come from out here. that's in the audience. 600 people got tickets. the hottest ticket in town today. i can tell you that for sure.
how do you get a ticket? a lot of them came through the democratic party. some of them came from special interest groups. i saw a group from aarp. they want to hear what's going to be said about social security. maybe the two most interesting things were the number of people who came together, one is bernie. one is hillary. i tell you, the real debate is going on out here right now. it has been going on for quite some time. the second thing, a number of people who said to me, i'm a republican. they both whispered. i'm a republican. don't tell anybody. down front we have the vips. that's going to be the current governor, mayor, former governor. obviously, family members, supporters of hillary clinton and bernie sanders. finally on stage, this is not pre-decorated. they got the stage together to
look so fantastic. two podiums. there is one backstage that would have gone to martin o'm l o'malley. >> politics can be a cruel business. they cannot given a metal detector of whether someone is a republican attending. chris matthews is standing by with a special guest. >> i'm here with senator gene. i was on the same floor as hillary clinton last night. i saw the secret service. it was very interesting. i think someone who looked like bob barnett coming in last night. her great debate -- what's the right word? consulta consultant. >> i saw the coffee terrains going in. coffee, non-caf. real coffee and some kind of hot water. looks like she was putting it all together put a serious debate prep in today.
what do you know? is that true? am i right? >> i think that's probably true. i've been in washington all day. i don't know the answer to that. she also put in a long day on the campaign trail yesterday. she did a number of events around the state and did a town hall meeting last night. >> if you're a democrat, and you include in your coalition, people sort of center, slightly center left, center left and left. then you have somebody comes along who is a bit to left than that and says i'm more progressive than you and you get into an argument, how do you win an argument on the democratic side that you want to be as progressive as the guy calls himself a socialist. how do you do that? >> i think that's the wrong fight. >> it's going on. >> the race isn't about who is the most progressive. hillary is better on some issues and bernie has been, what he would say, is better on some other issues. >> i like the way you said that.
hillary is better at some issues and he would say he's better. >> if you look at guns, for example, hillary has been somebody out there on the front lines trying to do something about gun violence. bernie not so much. that's an area where i would say -- >> you're in new hampshire. is there more of a gun culture, a second amendment culture this vermont than in new hampshire? >> no, i don't think so. >> you've had the guts to stand up for gun safety. >> i think most gun owners appreciate we need some responsible laws. >> making sure that bad people and people with problems shouldn't have guns. >> that's right. that's an example of why this is a false debate, progressive or not progressive. this is a race about who can get things done. that's why i'm supporting hillary clinton. >> i'm a numbers guy. not like steve. he's the best. i'm looking at some numbers here. 65 to 70 women support hillary. up here, it's about even.
it's just about wash. why are new hampshire women not feminine? >> i think they are. our governor is a woman. >> two senators, two congresswomen. >> one congresswoman. >> that's four. >> i don't know what the issue is. i remember shirley chisolm who ran for president back in the '60s. she was asked was it harder to run as a woman or an african-american. her response was it's harder to run as a woman. i think there's still a question that people have about a woman as commander in chief. i think hillary goes over that threshol thresholds. >> generals are talking about making all young women or girls sign up for the draft. it seems like the first woman
with a real chance to be president at the same time women are being put into combat and combat gear facing the enemy in all positions of combat. >> i think women have -- those women who are serving in the military want to see those combat positions open to them. they've been doing combat for a very long time, but they haven't been getting credit for it. that's the difference. if we're going to open combat positions to women then having everybody register for the draft is something we need to do. in case we get to that position. >> who's going to win? >> i think the polls -- we're going to be surprised that the polls will not be accurate. >> if she's win single digits, is that a win for hillary? >> sure. you talked about jean mccarthy. >> that was 42%. >> he did better than anybody thought he was going to do. that was a win. even when johnson actually won the primary.
>> we all remember most of those things. thank you so much. back to you brian. >> when did a win stop being a win? chris matthews up in the sky box above the venue. we'll take a break. as we go to break, a look outside the venue of the debate where supporters on both sides are awaiting the arrival of their respected candidates. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car in the aisle. control. it's so, what's the word?... sexy. go national. go like a pro.
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we are under 40 minutes to go now until what is a first, only and last debate of these two democratic candidates opinion not the two you're seeing on the stage, but they will be replaced by the actual ones before voters go to the polls in new hampshire and going into tonight, it is roughly a 20-point race between bernie sanders, the neighboring state senator from next door and in
vermont and hillary rodham clinton. we want to go backstage and get some flavor of the excitement back there from nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. >> you can feel the anticipation building backstage. i want to give you a glimpse of the stage from this vantage point. take a look. i'm going to scale the curtain back so you can see the two stand ins there. that's not secretary clinton and senator sanders. they are standing there so we can make sure that our shots are right and all our is are dots and ts crossed. secretary clinton will enter from this stage and senator sanders will enter in the opposite side. i'm going to ask the camera to turn around so you can get a look at that. i want to give you another look at some of the people who help to put this together. i heard you talking to chris about how many people have had some sleepless nights. these are some of them. they have worked tireless hours
making sure that this debate matches the moment. of course, there's so much at take here tonight. secretary clinton is trailing senator sanders by 20 points here in new hampshire. she really didn't have the momentum that she was hoping for coming out of iowa. she's hoping to regain some of that. you can expect her to talk about health care. she's likely going to hit senator sanders on the issue of guns. that's one of the few issues she's further to the left of him and this issue of who is the real progressive. you can expect her to defend her credentials vigorously. she'll say her progressive credentials go back to her days as first lady when she fought for health care for children. a little bit of breaking news tonight, we're learning that secretary clinton will travel to flint, michigan on sunday. of course, that is where we have that water crisis that's impacting a community, largely african-american community there. secretary clinton will be visitsing with them.
if she loses a state like new hampshire, other state where is you have high population of african-americans really care about an issue of flint. that's the backdrop to this first debate of these two candidates face-to-face. >> as you have been speaking, we have seen the motorcade pull up, bernie sanders and his wife and entourage get out. this is day one or two for him of having secret service protection. it's a huge lifestyle adjustment especially for candidate like sanders and having covered the white house yourself, you've watched this up close. he was kind of famous for such a small entourage, a small footprint. people would see him on commercial flights and the like. now he is enveloped in this concentric rings of security. >> it's been a little bit of a shock to the system, we understand. senator sanders campaign used to holding event, scheduling them
rather last minute. that all has to change, as you know. the secret service needs time to prepare. this is underscoring we have entered a different level of this campaign. if you talk to him campaign officials they have a different tone. they underscore the point he's a real contender now. this is a real race. that's one more reason why there's so much at stake here tonight. >> white house correspondent chris t kristen welker. let's go up top again to chris matthews. >> i'm here with jeff weaver. after all the going and going and hard work you're in the mix. after iowa, going to a virtual tie in iowa has changed the die fl -- dynamics of this race.
that's not how it works with bernie. that's why people love him because they know he's not going to change. >> can you tell us about the inside. we're going to watch the debate tonight. >> what was it like for him to emerge. he said you wouldn't have had me on your show before. i did think he was on fringe. now he's right here center stage. how does he adjust to that development? >> i've been with him for 30 years. he can be the president without being a changed person. >> that's what howard dean says about him. has he ever changed his mind on anything? >> no, but he probably changed it back right way.
>> i'm not being adversarial. what does it socialist mean to him? why he choose not to run as a democr democrat? >> he is. he believes government should work for all people. we have a rigged economy. we need to take back the country and fight against the billionaire class. that's what it means for him. >> does he mean when someone like hillary clinton, 6$600,000 that you have an equity market where people are making billions. they are making so much money. >> in many cases as we saw during the financial collapse, they are making so much money on the backs of people who lost their homes. >> how is she involved in it?
>> not so much she involved. >>. >> she is involved. are you there? no. is any of media there? no. you could have come to any of bernie's fund raisers. >> what do you think happen in those meetings? >> that's what people would like to know. >> you're dropping the dime on hillary. >> it's not a dime. people have a certain level of access that other people don't have. is it always successful? no. why does wall street put 22 million dollar into a campaign or ebay, a 20-minute speech on ebay making $15,000 a minute. that's as much as a minimum wage worker making in a year. >> i'm right here. i agree. everything you say, i agree with. >> why are they doing it?
>> and hillary's to blame? >> no. it's about a system. it's not about hillary clinton. >> you're trying to get it both ways. >> i'm not. that's not right. >> your guy work hard to get ready for this debate. i think hillary has. >> we have. the yellow pad. >> thank you. good guy here at the sanders campaign chief. brian, back to you. >> interesting conversation. we'll take a break. what you can't see just after camera, lawrence o' donnell is waiting to talk to us. you laugh. you worry. you do whatever it takes to take care of your family. and when it's time to plan for your family's future, we're here for you. we're legalzoom, and for over 10 years we've helped families just like yours with wills and living trusts. so when you're ready, start with us. doing the right thing has never been easier. legalzoom. legal help is here.
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let's go back inside the venue. that's outside the venue, university of new hampshire. inside, in the center for the performing artersarts, we're nor 30 minutes in the first, last and only debate between these two candidates. chris is live for us inside the venue once again. chris. >> i'm on the stage. standing out here, you really get a sense of history being made and the importance of what will happen. 600 people in the audience. we were talking about them before. it isn't just about them. it's about the millions of people and the minds that they are hoping to change. we wanted to talk to some voters
who could be swayed. i have to say of the young people, it seems to be heavily for bernie sanders. there are quite a few undecided. we found a couple of them. this is jimmy and amy. good to see you. you said you really wanted to be here because you wanted to get a sense of them. >> well, it's really hard when you get a chance to vote in the new hampshire primary picking between your head and your heart. i think hillary is the most qualified. when we get chance to vote this early in the season, bernie's message is so inspiring. who want to see who convinces me they really can get something done. >> you have no idea who you want to vote for. >> i'm struggling. bernie is calling for a political revolution. hillary wants to continue obama's legacy. i want to see who can do it and make it great for my future. >> you work here. you say the students are talking about this all the time.
>> i go around campus every day this week they're arguing over bernie and trump and hillary. it's amazing to see students so engaged and inspired. >> do you think your mind could be made up tonight, that things could be changed? >> i don't know. i think it's something about being in the room. you can really see them and listen to them up close. i wonder if that's the kind of thing that will make the difference. i can see who i can trust and who i can connect with. >> we have a couple of college students over here. we will hopefully talk to them later. they spent last night watching the town hall and fighting. one is for bernie and one is for hillary. it's an interesting night. >> we don't want to divide people tonight. we want to bring them together. thanks. we want to talk to chris hayes for what may be a viewers guide to tonight. back to this word, progress ifr. y you and i talked about it this
afternoon. it's a bit inside the democratic beltway. a lot of the mainstream viewers joining us for this debate tonight. couldn't be blamed with associating progressive with a nice woman named flo. the fight has been over the definition of who's a progressive. can you supply us some background? >> we have seen over the last 20 to 30 years both parties polarized. the republican party has drifted further to the right and the democratic party to the left. both have sorted in a kind of id i ideological candidate. we are seeing about who is truly progressive. that term was kind of reappropriated by people in the center left in the 1990s in the wake of what they say becoming
too toxic to be marshalled. people started talking about progressivism. usually it means people on the left, general spectrum. the real question and it's a question that bernie sanders is pushing is, who gets to carry that label, that mantle. really what we're seeing is a fight over who is further to the left of whom between bernie sanders and hillary clinton and whether there are enough votes in the further left most reaches of the democratic coalition to win a two-person race. the thinking for a long time among the political class and the democratic party is that there aren't enough votes there. if you ask people to self-identify in surveys, democrats call themselves moderates or they call themselves conservatives. the question is are there enough votes in that part of the democratic coalition and based on the behavior of both candidates, you would think there are a will the of votes. they are each trying to get to the left of the other.
>> chris hayes thank you for that. that's the explanation we needed. let's go to kristen welker who is backstage with one of two moderators, chuck todd. >> chuck just joined me. thank you, chuck for joining us. set the stage, i don't want to give anything away about the debate. they're having this big fight over who is the real progressive. >> i think it's about defining the future of the democratic party. it's more than just about the new hampshire primary. this is about trying to set the terms of the debate for the rest of this primary season. yes, they're having these charges and counter charges of who is the real progressive. it's fascinating when for the first time, in my memory, where we have seen the democratic party basically look now like the republican party. they have been having this fight about who is the real
conservative for multiple presidential elections. democrats hadn't done that in a while. this is a new thing. well, everything fnew is old. it's been decades since there's been a fight like this. >> have a good debate. there will be fireworks. >> we're coming up shortly on the debate. we'll fit in another break. our live coverage continues right after that. [burke] at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even "turkey jerks." [turkey] gobble.
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>> i'm here with the publisher of the union leader. very important newspaper in this state for years. always been involved in presidential politics. joe, you're partnering with us tonight. talk about that role. what role are row playing tonight? >> the role is bringing the debate together. my editor a couple of weeks ago, there hasn't been a debate. there's always been one between iowa and new hampshire. there wasn't going to be one this cycle. we'd be happy to do what we could. we promoted it. we had democrats in the state right op-eds about it. >> let me ask you a couple of political questions. rubio. what's your assessment? >> he's deeper than trump. he's running ads that say i can go to washington and fix things. >> you guys are endorsing a guy that's the pre-trump trump.
chris christie. he was bigger about two or three years ago than now. why do you like him? >> he's trump but he gots some brains behind his lips. he's a fighter. he's been in a -- >> there's hillary clinton. >> a real liberal state. he's managed to win two terms. he's become a pro-life guy. >> what do you make of the talk, i was the guy moving the cones on the bridge. what is that lingo all about? >> sometimes he makes jokes. >> is it important to be from vermont? >> no. >> not like massachusetts. >> no.
>> let me ask you about hillary speaking. literally, you can't protect. >> she didn't win very well. that's what think paid me. >> what do you do if we get a democratic nominee for president that calls himself a socialist? >> it depends on who he's up against. >> you might endorse him. >> bernie sanders, donald trump. >> back to you, brian. >> thanks. our thanks as well to the union leader. we'll take another break here. we're in the home stretch. about 15 minutes till the start of the democratic debate. i've been called a control freak...
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welcome back. we're inside 15 minutes to go. because the venue is university of new hampshire. there's several watch parties among the student body. i'm guessing beverages will be served at some of them. inside if venue we're all set and ready to go. we saw both candidates have arrived. ergo, it's must be time to talk to our old friend lawrence o'donnell. we got a barn burner of a race in the republican party. few dreamed there would be a barn burner of race in the democratic party. >> the reason we didn't dream it is because the polls told us we
must not. one year ago, we had the nbc poll showing hillary 20 points behind in bernie. no one is referring back. we tend to refer back to what did the last polls show. let's think about what did the toll polls show one year ago. the nbc poll of one year ago, bernie sanders at 13%. hillary clinton at 69% a year ago. that's what you call a prohibitive lead. it's way above 50. the people of new hampshire made up their mind. they knew everything you could want to know about hillary clinton then, they thought. they also knew everything they wanted know about bernie sanders, they thought. new hampshire has had one year to listen to the candidates and listen to each one of them. they're making a decision. bernie sanders support is filled with people, who one year ago, supported hillary clinton. after listening for a year,
minds were changed. the trouble for bernie, he doesn't have a year this any other state. >> if i just appointed you debate coach for hillary clinton tonight, what do you say backstage. >> odds oddly enough, it's the generic ambition to have in a debate to be liked. that's her deficit. everybody believes she knows the policy inside and out. there's very minor policy difference. hillary clinton wants to raise the top tax rate to 43%. bernie sawants to raise it 10 points higher. there's a connection they now feel with bernie sanders in new hampshire who comes across as the gruff neighbor you might not want to talk to eventually becomes the endearing guy. it's the clint eastwood part he's played in times in movies.
it takes some time but you like that guy. hillary clinton needs to develop that kind of feel in the audience. the recommendation that's the hardest thing for politician to do is just be yourself. it's a very hard thing to do. if she is just herself, as i've seen her in be in private, she has a very winning personality and character if she could just do that on the stage. >> you and i are talking, our friends and colleagues are doing a little audience warm up. look at their various cross tabs on their file folders. these are two people moderating the debate is harrowing business. it's hard work. these are two people hard at work at tonight's task for a long time. one more question and that has to do with sanders. as i said earlier, i listened to chris matthews ask sanders spokesman again and again to repeat the line, we want radical, revolutionary change. what chris was trying to do was lay a predicate as if to say,
tell me how you're going to sell that in a fall general election to this country if you guys are the nominee. >> as it stands now, with paul ryan as the speaker of the house when the next president arrives, there's no indication that the democrats will take the house. there is no significant proposal that hillary clinton has suggested and no significant proposal that bernie sanders has suggested that will ever come to a vote in the house of representatives. all you're looking at is the difference between their aspirations. bernie is setting his aspirations in the tax code ten points higher than hillary. i don't get what the big argument is about when you're sending a president in to deal with republican congress that intends to give the democratic president nothing. each one has exactly the same murder. how do you get this idea past paul ryan. bernie's ideas may be less likelike
likely to get past paul ryan. they both have a zero percent chance. >> we're looking at the moderators greeting secretary clinton. here comes senator sanders backstage amid the fine electronic work of our long island, new york city based staff. this is what happens when they exchange pleasantries. we have one time for one more debate. we'll go right into the debate from new hampshire. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ this is a body of proof.
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we're three minutes away from the start of the democratic debate in new hampshire. chris matthews, one final thought before we get urnnder w. it seems academic but there will be a winner and a loser. >> i think the expectations are that bernie sanders is carrying the offensive now. hillary is on the defensive. if you think of the debates it's about how much money she took in speaking fees and things like that. she's not progressive enough. she's admitted to being a moderate. he's had good field position. for her to come back and get recorded as the winner, would be a biggie for her. if she can get to it below seven
or eight points, that would be a big win just like for her husband in 1992. >> thanks. can you believe we're talking about race 20 points going into tonight? >> the new hampshire electorate has changed dramatically. they thought they knew everything they needed to know. they had been wamping her for over 20 years. this campaign meant something. now we have a completely different posture tonight. >> as we look at this venue in red, white and blue. a lot of color and a lot of lights. this is the first, only and last time these two candidates will debate prior to the first votes being cast. new hampshire's long time status as the first in the nation
primary. remember the iowa caucuses are just that. so much is riding on this when they come out. they had a candidates forum last night. to subjects on religion to those speaking fees from goldman sa s sachs. there was a predicate laid down for tonight's conversation. we'll see what hillary clinton and the clinton campaign has ready. you're moderators tonight and you'll hear them introduce themselves in a few seconds. our own chuck todd and rachel maddow. this will be a 90-minute long debate from the university of new hampshire campus in the state of new hampshire tonight.
the press corps has come along and have been seated around the front of the audience. 600 people in attendance. a hot ticket in state of new hampshire tonight. next up, the democratic candidates debate from the university of new hampshire. i am a progressive who gets thing done. >> i guess she's not a progressive. >> i am excited about really getting into the debate with senator sanders. >> it's great to be against the wall after you vote for the wall. >> he has voted with the gun lobby. >> enough is enough. >> so, i hope we keep it on the issues. >> we were told that my opponent was the inevitable nominee. she doesn't appear quite so