tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC February 4, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PST
ged rid of that until you have a good process that gives you the information about what to do. i want to add something else because, look, we have so much work to do in our country and i i want to add something else because, look, we have so much work to do in our country and i think it's the greatest work that americans will be called to do and of course we have to have people in every community involved in it. we have to have the political voice, the political grass roots speaking up and speaking out about what we have to try to accomplish in washington, but we also need to have a very clear set of goals that we are going to achieve and we need to level with the american people about what they are, what they will cost, what will be expected of our citizenry. so i see as president having a constant dialogue with americans. here's what we're trying to get done, here's why i need your help, here's why you may think
comprehensive immigration reform with a path to citizenship isn't something you care about, but i'm telling you it will help fix the labor market, it will bring people out of the shadows. you have to make those connections so you have people with you every step of the way. that's what i want to do. >> thank you. before we go, i want to ask secretary clinton you've made it clear when you look at senator sanders you do not see a president. >> i did not say that. >> do you see a vice president? would you unite the party by trying to pick senator sanders as a runningmate? >> i'm not getting ahead of myself. if i'm fortunate to be the nominee, the first person i call to talk to about where we go and how we get it done will be senator sanders.
>> would you consider the secretary? >> i agree with what the secretary said. we shouldn't be getting ahead of ourselves. and as i have said many times, sometimes in campaigns things get a little bit out of hand. i happen to respect the secretary very much. i hope it's mutual and on our worst days i think it is fair to say we are 100 times better than any republican candidate. >> that's true. that's true. >> secretary clinton, closing statements, you are first. >> well, first thanks to msnbc and thanks to all of you for holding this debate before the
new hampshire primary. i am going to campaign as hard as i can between now and tuesday to earn your votes in that primary and i hear some talk that people are trying to decide do they vote with their heart, do they vote with their head, i'm asking you both your heart and your head to vote with you on tuesday because we have a lot of work that can only come because your heart is moved. we didn't get to talk about the continuing struggles that americans face with racism, with sexism with discrimination, with people with disabilities. yes we have income and inequalitity, that we need to stand up against and diminish from our society. i have been moved from my heart ever since i was a young woman about the age of a lot of senator sander supporters worrying what i can do to make a difference for my countries and i will bring that heart with me, but we have to get our heads together to come up with the best answers to solve the
problems so that people can have real differences in their lives that will make them better for now and into the future. >> senator sanders. >> my dad came to this country at the age of 17 from poland. didn't have any money, couldn't speak english, he died pretty young and i think it would have been beyond his wildest dreams to see his son up here on this stage today running for president. i love this country and my dad loved this country and he was the most proud american because of what it gave him in terms of raising his family, even though we never had much money, but today in america we are the only major country on earth that doesn't guarantee health care to all people, that doesn't guarantee paid family and medical leave, we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major country on earth.
we are seeing millions of families unable to send their kids to college in the united states of america. i'm running for president because i believe it is just too late for establishment politics and establishment economics. i do believe we need a political revolution where millions of people stand up and say loudly and clearly that our government belongs to all of us and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors. thank you all. >> there you have it. i promise you rachel and i have a lot more questions, but we don't have any more time unless we can convince them to do a third hour, but i don't think so. our post debate coverage will continue in just a moment with our colleagues. we want to thank all of you for being here. >> we want to thank our host, the university of new hampshire and the people of new hampshire. you guys get to vote in just five days.
good evening, i think it's an extraordinary night in american politics, the first and only one-on-one debate between hillary clinton and bernie sanders leading up to the new hampshire primary next tuesday night. at times tonight it got heated. of course. clinton described herself as a progressive that likes to get things done. he attacked clinton as representing the establishment. and secretary clinton accused sanders of impugning her character. we'll talk to the moderators, chuck todd, who did a great job tonight. and joining me now at the university of new hampshire, and
msnbc's andrea mitchell and casey hunt and the democratic chair national committee, james pendell of the boston globe. i have no idea where to start. i will start with my colleague who i trust, andrea, be blunt, score this compared to recent debates in the last 20 years. this was a chance for the two democratic candidates to go up against each other and explain how they differ, and they do differ. it was pretty fiery. the artful smear, they went back and forth and back and forth, look, they have been dancing around each other who is more progressive and more liberal, who can get elected, who is not electable. but this is really direct
contact. but just the fact that rachel and chuck let them go at each other, didn't let the debate get out of control and showed the context of opinions were widespread. >> i'll second that, in quantitative terms, least number of words spoken by moderators. you can't even remember their words. they were so functional and direct, no calling attention to themselves. it was all about the two people up there. i think for half an hour they were mano-a-mano. >> they were actually getting a broader view, rather than a staccato -- >> aren't you glad that i legalized this one -- >> i'm so glad they showcased themselves in conjunction with
the american people. >> 45% of american people are still making up their minds. you saw a very comprehensive debate come out of iowa. this was sec, part of it was the complicated results coming out of iowa. part of it was a one-on-one debate, this was a really great moment. one thing i have to say, if i am an independent voter -- >> and college in acc -- >> and yeah, i just -- let me -- you know, you have been watching these debates for a while now. i thought there were distinguishing characteristics. one is, they were pretty much heavyweights up there. my bet is that secretary clinton will close the gap based on her performance tonight. which i thought was sterling. and he will close the gap nationally, you know why?
the stature of the debate, my god, he is her equal. >> that is the course of this race, that is what they will tell you, look, we need to prove to voters. there are so many of our supporters who will say, and senator sanders said in his words, people say they would never vote for him because he could never win -- >> the stature, neither way, she was sterling, they were progressive. i think she was really well prepared. >> she was prepared, at several small events. and they cancelled them. she has been in debate prep all day. >> i saw the coffee being delivered down the hall. there are two types, decaf and regular, there was hot water for the tea people.
and i really do think they were prepping tonight. >> bill clinton is not here, the first time he was not here as counsel and adviser, this is the first time -- >> if i were an independent voter in new hampshire and i'm trying to figure out just what ballot i'm going to pick much less which candidate i'm going to pick i'm not sure they got a lot out of this particular debate. i think democrats absolutely got a lot. >> what do you want? >> well, if i'm a person -- >> what didn't you get -- >> i got a lot of conversation about what is a progressive, a lot of conversation about foreign policy. i got a clear definition in terms of what direction after obama, the democratic party should take right now between sanders and clinton. but on a person facing middle class incomes right now, trying to worry about if i can retire and send my kids to college. if i'm going to be able to afford health care. >> if they debated the funding of private college universities
whether you should get it for everybody including the rich or for people who need it and make it affordable. on health care and social security they talked about those things. >> i do think in terms of the independent voter right now who is looking at this race and trying to find -- i talk to them all the time between donald trump and bernie sanders i'm not sure there is a decision -- >> let me tell you something, james, all of my political career, journalistic career, i have heard of these people. and no matter how many debates and newspaper articles how much everything they always say i'm looking for more information on the candidates. they will never have enough. they will walk in the voting booth and make up their minds. but a lot of people like to say it to bust your chops. >> and they are very late deciders in new hampshire. >> and this was a great two-hour debate with two people, they each spoke an hour about everything. i thought they hit every button
in . >> and they are two candidates getting to know each other, right, starting to get to know each other and their strengths and weaknesses. you saw hillary clinton making her attacks on senator sanders, but you saw him punching right back. >> i think there were good points made on each side. i thought hillary and secretary clinton, we used their first names. i thought she was very effective defending herself, used to the word cherry picking, instead of the term moderate. she said i used a comment there. her demand, he said who is the progressive by your standards, by your standards, the president is not a progressive. all of these people are progressives. i thought that was very well prepped. but what she did not was the system. he was very good on the system. he said wall street spends billions to get protection from
regulations. don't you think the deregulation regarding the clintons, i think she was great in defending herself, he was excellent in defending. >> for those watching the debate, the two candidates say they would stand up for consumers, and using the law as it is written right now she would take that opportunity and certainly senator sanders has made that statement. contrast that and you talk about the independent voter in new hampshire who decides who ballots to take, listening to our candidates at the know they have a candidate for president who will go to bat for them and continue to make progress, and listening to the republicans they hear people who are hurling insults at one another, and who want to take us back to the bush era when the economy was tanking. >> two pieces of news which give
insight into bernie sanders who does not have the killer instinct. and i say it -- he is not going to reopen iowa. he says look, it will end up, look, she will get 22, i'll get 20. we need so many more delegates, it's not such a big deal, let the chips fall where they may. the second thing, nbc.com broke a story today that colin powell and condy rice's aides also received e-mails that were subseque subsequently classified. secretary powell is objecting strongly. hillary clinton said this is what i have been saying all along, there is something wrong with the system that
retroactively goes back, hillary clinton said i never attacked you personally on that and i will not. >> to the candidate's credit -- >> he said i must say that every time i go anywhere people ask me about it. that was a nice way -- but he made a point of getting to the fact that you may be guilty. i'm not going to say you are. >> his supporters want him to go for it. but he is not making a case. >> every one of our debates have been substantive. that is what they want to focus on, voters don't want to hear them beat the heck out of each other. they want to know, because they're not certain about the ground that is underneath them they want to be inspired and given confidence. and they have one party that is doing that and another party that is literally in the middle of a food fight and can't consult each other enough. >> madam chairman, who are better people? are democrats as individuals, men and women, better people than republicans?
>> oh, come on, some of my best friends are republicans. >> i was teasing. >> and i have some moderate friends, too. >> and to point to what andrea said, i think what they will talk about tomorrow morning this question about reading the transcripts -- >> they asked the question, would you release them -- >> release the tapes, there are two kinds of honorary, there is the big honorary conventions, 5,000 people, we fknow what the are, those transcripts would not be that important, but are there transcripts of big board money? >> i don't know. >> why would the transcripts be important? either a lot of people saw it -- >> she has been claiming all along that i'm invited to see
these investment banks, they want to know my world view, what do you think of china and russia? i'm a former secretary of state and all former secretary of state have done this in recent decades. if the transcript shows that they were talking, something that involves a conflict of interest, i have fhave no idea. but just to settle it, reassure the public they are being brought inside and they know what is going on. >> if she ever pandered to them, that would be a yes or no. >> for someone to believe they could make that much money and there is nothing given in return -- >> for a candidate like bernie sanders, if it turns out she is saying one thing to a crowd of wall street, and another thing on the debate stage that also -- >> okay, i want to thank everybody, andrea mitchell, james kendall of the boston
globe, and congresswoman debbie wasserman-schultz. we'll hear much more from the candidates coming up. the debate moderators will join us, much more debate highlights and analysis all coming up in the live coverage of the first one-on-one debate between hillary clinton and bernie sanders continues after this. >> i was asked if i'm a moderate or a progressive, i said i'm a progressive that likes to get things done. my record shows that i fought for justice and kids' rights and having fought against the kind of inequitiys that fuelled my decision, every step of the way i stood up and fought and i have the scars to prove it.
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. so in my mind, what we have to do is wage a political revolution, stand up and fight back. demand the government that represents us and not just a handful of campaign contributors. now, all of the ideas that i'm talking about, they are not radical ideas. >> what a debate, welcome back to msnbc's coverage of the debate. the first one-on-one debate, which is always better than the debate, from tonight's debate, my colleagues, chuck todd and rachel maddow, i have to congratulate you on a fabulous debate, better than anybody can remember. these guys were like out there alone. it's like o-- here is the deal, go out there for two hours and argue with each other, go ahead, rachel. >> we worked deliberately on
trying to come up with a way that we could moderate this debate without participating in it ourselves. basically, by setting them up to have these conversations that they have been having by proxy and through their campaigns and advertisements and instead doing them face to face. i mean, neither the republicans or democrats have had a one-on-one, two people on stage debate so that was our main goal. >> chuck, at the beginning i thought they were like sumo wrestlers, using their usual materials the first few minutes. they all threw out their cliches, and somewhere along the line, it was a one-on-one debate i saw most of the night. >> i joked with rachel the first half hour. and you could have boom, picked a noun, and they have would have gone. it shows you that both
candidates realize they're in a moment right now. let's be realistic. the next three weeks will decide the trajectory of this race. not just here and new hampshire, it's nevada and south carolina. will it be two, two, three and one, you know, what happens. and i think look, as rachel said our goal was not to debate them. but to do our best to let them debate and stay out of the way. and i'd like to think we definitely did that a lot -- >> i do like because of this debate i know more about the difference between them than i knew before this debate. i am still like in the throes of it, but we got sharp distinctions, which is what voters are looking for right now. >> i agree, rachel, a little much -- you come away like wow, are they going to be able to -- >> no, you're bo both should be
proud of performances, because both of you, the moderators were what they should have been. anyway, back to the spin room to the folks who run those campaigns. john podesta and the much appreciated hillary clinton campaign chairman. and the senior adviser to the campaign. let me start with john podesta. i thought hillary clinton was very prepared tonight and answered the questions, she nailed it about the cherry-picking, and setting seniors up, kind of the cranky guy, deciding who was progressive or not, all the people who would have failed the test and not gotten through the gate. >> look, i think she was great across the board, really, i thought she demonstrated she could do all the aspects of the job as president. she had a very clear set of
ideas about what she was for, not just what she was against. she dominated the national security part of the debate. i thought that was the weakest part of senator sanders' performance. >> did it bother you that you had to wait for an hour for that, that you had to wait for an hour for foreign policy? >> look, i think voters will make a judgment on how important that is to them. but in my mind that is one of the most critical parts of being president of the united states, can you take on the role of commander-in-chief in world affairs, keep the country safe? and i think you know, senator sanders you know, could hardly have anything to say about afghanistan. he could not name which country was the biggest threat when given a list of three. >> he said north korea. >> well, he kind of wandered around and got there, and finally said isis. >> i know what you're doing, you're making it sound like he is a confused old guy.
>> well, i'm not comparing him to ben carson, but i thought he was pretty weak. >> well, listen, come on, he said -- no, no, here are my ideas of the three biggest threat, what do you say, and he said north korea where they have atomic weapons and paris. he know is what it is like there. i think it was a good judgment. >> when we talk about the first hour, like the entire game was being put on clinton's side of the field. in terms of touchdown, you guys always talked about goldman sachs, i swear there was an hour about goldman sachs. you won the topic selection. >> it was not just our topic, i think that is where the voters are, it's time to talk about it. the rigged machine, talking about campaigns, and elections. >> and everybody was fine before you guys came along --
>> and tonight, hillary clinton said she will look into revealing the transcripts. i hope she does. >> so you want to do what you're doing right now -- >> she said she would look into it. i hope she does. >> so we're going to get the transcripts of all the speeches she has done for money? >> that is what she said she would look into it. >> my advice would be don't look into it too long, because it's not going to go away -- >> you just said -- >> from you, from the press -- >> then -- an innuendo -- >> i think she called him on that, will she say to her face what she has been implying, is that somehow it influences her position. he would not do it. he backed off. and i thought she gave a very strong defense of the fact she stood up to wall street, she has the most comprehensive wall street report plan on the table.
>> i never heard of a candidate getting another candidate to release transcripts. given to thousands or hundreds of people -- >> she said she would look into it. >> i don't know what that means. >> i have nothing to add to that. >> does looking into it mean if she finds transcripts she will release them? >> i could say will bernie release all his e-mails? >> he doesn't want the e-mails, he wants the transcripts. anyway, the drum is beating. i get it. i get it. anyway, the people love a mystery. they talked about tonight, having a chance to explain. what did you like about him? >> well, as i said, i thought she really came in with a positive case, not the negative case and i thought she did that well. i think in the close, really, laid out a vision for the country, where it can go. >> she looked happier than she
did at the end of the debate, does that tell us anything? >> no. >> well, she was smile iing. >> many people say a lot of people look happier than bernie sanders. >> up next, we'll find out if the candidates changed anybody's minds tonight. stay with us, we have much more from the spin room at new hampshire. msnbc's live coverage continues after this. >> our campaign is a campaign of the people, by the people. and for the people. so rachel, secretary clinton does represent the establishment. i represent, i hope, ordinary americans. and by the way, who are not all that enamored with the establishment. >> well, look, i have to just jump in here, because honestly, senator sanders is the only person who i think would
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back on the right track, that i want to imagine a country where people's wages reflect their hard work. where we have health care for everyone and where every child gets to live up for his potential. i'm fighting for people who cannot wait for those changes and i'm not making promises that i cannot keep. >> i'm not making promises that i cannot keep. i think that was the call to arms from hillary clinton there in that bite. up here in new hampshire, the site of tonight's debate between her and bernie sanders. msnbc's chris jansing is down on the debate floor with reaction from some voters who were undecided before the debate of the -- chris, take over. >> that is right, the real question were any minds changed? now the question is after the debate have you made up your mind? >> i have. >> really? >> i did. >> who?
>> so after hearing everything they said, i decided to go with my heart. that is with bernie sanders. >> what did he say? >> i heard what he said. i believe what he said. i think changing how campaigns are run will help to change the political future of our country. i believe in him. >> amy? the moment of truth. >> i think i also made a decision tonight. it was a big debate. and i think what was really interesting was i did not so much come up with more reasons to vote for hillary clinton as i did less for bernie sanders. i think he is a tremendous individual. but it's not voting for your favorite person tonight it's really who can get it done. and i kept thinking about jimmy carter who i think is just one of the most tremendous human beings, but with not a great president and he did so much great work. when bernie sanders talks about this revolution, i don't know who is with him. and it's really important we have somebody who can work with congress. this is going to be a really
tough congress no matter what. i don't think he can get us there. and i believe in hillary clinton's policies. i love what her plans are. i really am excited to vote for her. >> well, honestly, i did not expect this. one hillary clinton and one bernie sanders. i saw the two of you talking. you had not met each other before tonight. you had these intense conversations before the commercial break. quick point. i talked about a dozen voters who were leaving, the folks who were for hillary clinton, the folks for bernie sanders, some of them said bernie sanders won the debate easily. they did not make up their mind, but they have a split decision here, back in the hall. back to you guys. and i did think that young guy there with the facial hair was probably going to be with bernie sanders. but that is a bad decision on my part to make that preemptively. anyway, thank you for picking
out two smart people. i just talked behind me the mayor of boston, fairly new in office. going to bring a thousand voters to help hillary clinton. that is very important, because back when hillary clinton had the big upset with barack obama, it was tommy monino who brought up hundreds of volunteers up here. watch this on the ground, the power of boston, the workers, the mayor of boston puts this stuff together. much more to come here from the spin room, we're learning stuff here. including what the republicans are saying after seeing tonight's debate. coldly observing it, i must say. anyway, you're watching msnbc's live coverage of the debate live from the beautiful campus here of the university of new hampshire. >> now, all of the ideas that i'm talking about they are not radical ideas.
so your business can get back to business. sounds like my ride's ready. don't get stuck on hold. reach an expert fast. comcast business. built for business. i also believe in affordable college, but i don't believe in free college. because every expert that i have talked to says look, how will you ever control the costs? what i want to do is make sure middle class kids, not donald
trump's kids get to be able to afford college. >> welcome back to our live coverage between hillary clinton and bernie sanders. i'm joined right now by msnbc colleagues's chris hayes, the host of "all in." and for reaction from the other side, katy tur is with us, she covers trump, as well. >> what is the hillary clinton connection as you watch it with the republicans? what is the overlay between the two. >> well, i thought it was interesting, and donald trump and bernie sanders, when it comes to money and politics, hillary clinton hit hard on that tonight. and i think it is a real way that there is a crossover between bernie sanders and donald trump. we are in new hampshire. there are a lot of undeclared voters in new hampshire. and believe it or not there are voters out there who like donald trump and like bernie sanders. and because of that one big
thing, they're not taking money from places like banks and goldman sachs. >> any other republicans pillowcamaking that case? >> they can't make it. >> essentially, the two outliar >> essentially, the two outliar lyers -- >> it's so striking. she said all you need to do is talk about one street, not the other street. and he just said no, no, no, kept bringing it home, bringing it home. it was powerful. people really reacted to that. >> he has built an entire campaign effectively on a bernie sanders message. there is a connection between citizens united. here we have a market system running our political system. money more than votes it running
it. it's also completely coherent, ideologically. he believes it a thousand percent. he has been saying it for 30 years, right? and -- >> no, but he was talking about you can go back and look at bernie sanders tapes from the '80s and talk about the millionaires. when he is on message he is extremely good at delivering that message. and there was a lot tonight all in his terrain. she cannot win exchanges about goldman sachs. >> and it was stunning tonight, clapping, they would roar for him. there was a mix of age groups, certainly a lot of students. a lot of middle aged people. he hit things very effectivively. >> it's so hard for her, when he gets going and starts yelling about income inequality. he is so passionate about it. i had had a friend, they said,
he screamed at you for 20 minutes, 40 minutes, that is it. she can't compete with that. when she starts yelling she just sounds shrill. it's really hard for her. >> i'm watching it like a writer. for snl. and i'm thinking we'll see it saturday night. and when he does his thing -- >> there was that one moment where it got very hot tempered. you could feel it in the room where she said it's an artful -- >> he said completely uncontrolled, whoa -- >> everyone is like oh, my goodness. >> he goes oh, like that! should no, that moment was -- she said your question -- didn't really say it to my face. i will say this, though, he is amazing when he is on his message. when he is not on his message he is either facing talking points,
like the standard democratic talk on immigration, or totally out to sea like he was. there was a shot taken of him like podesta, like i know what they're trying to do. they make it sound like it was a little drowsy -- >> the only thing is, he threw in the towel, like he lost the debate right there. and he lost the commander-in-chief comment -- >> but -- >> why did they push -- >> doddering. everybody does this artful stare -- thomas jefferson said the whole art of politics is the art of telling the truth. the art. anyway, chris j, and katie, stay with us. this is "hardball," i think this is one of the best debates i can remember.
maybe the best, the first one-on-one debate with hillary clinton and bernie sanders. back with more after this. >> we differ on the war in iraq which created barbaric organizations like isis. not only did i vote against that war i helped lead the opposition. >> look, we did differ. a vote in 2002 is not a plan to defeat isis. we have to look at the threats that we face right now and we have to be prepared to take them on and defeat them.
mano a m . this is a very, very personally -- meaningful night for me. i'm back in new hampshire, a state that i love. a state that i'm going to work really hard at. even though we know their favor their neighbors. that is neighborly of them. but i'm going to work hard to make my case between now and tuesday. >> welcome back to our live coverage of the one and only debate we're having this season with hillary clinton and bernie sanders, just the two of them. boy did it make a difference. that was hillary clinton in a post-debate party in new hampshire. i'm back here with chris hayes and katy tur. last thoughts on tonight. who won? you work for a magazine, you can tell us. >> oh, they both had had really strong moments. i think they both won what they wanted out of this debate.
he has all the momentum coming out of this, and i think she didn't strike the blow she needed to strike to make the momentum. >> i think the sanders campaign made a bet that they don't actually care that much about foreign policy, they care about the things that he lost on, that are not motivating the debate -- >> i think standing next to her on this stage, one-on-one, with malone, elevated his campaign, to make him win this debate on appearance alone -- >> how about the new hampshire voting right now. do you think she closed it at all tonight? 20-point spread right now? >> she made a really strong case putting herself in. the questions, the republicans in name only, is bernie sanders doing a security test for democrats and if so am i not a democrat? is barack obama not a democrat? >> i think that lead is way too big. >> i think this team operates on
foreign policy. good experience, the knowledge -- >> you know what else? you said you have more experience than i do. you don't have the judgment i showed back in 2002. >> same arguments continued. hey, thank you. as always, katy tur, as always, that does it for our debate coverage tonight. but if you missed any of tonight's democratic debate i recommend you watch this one. watch it now, coming up at the top of the hour, the whole debate, you get to watch one of the best debates ever. join me live as we countdown to "hardball." "hardball" back tomorrow night at 7:00. for all of us here at the university of new hampshire, good night. patterson when you order now you get a free pizza after super bowl 50!
. i am a progressive who gets things done. >> i am excited about really getting into the debate with senator sanders. >> it's great to be against the wall after you vote for the wall. >> he has voted with the gun lobby. >> enough is enough. >> so, i hope we keep it on the issues. >> we were told that my opponent was the inevitable nominee. she doesn't appear quite so inevitable today.