tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC February 16, 2016 6:00am-2:01pm PST
good morning. i'm steve kornacki. live from columbia, south carolina, the state capital. also the home of the university of south carolina. we are here for msnbc's special coverage of the republican presidential primary here in south carolina and also for the democratic caucuses out in nevada. we are just four days away now from both of those crucial contests and today is another busy day, a frantic day on the campaign trail, as donald trump's war of words escalates with ted cruz and now also with george w. bush on president's day yesterday and for the first time since leaving office the
former president drew jeb bush's biggest crowd yet on the campaign trail with w. getting back into the political ring, that has made him a new target for trump. while w. didn't mention trump by name he had some clear jabs aimed directly at him. >> my experience the strongest person usually isn't the loudest one in the room. [ applause ] >> if the ex-president is campaigning for his brother i think he's probably open to great scrutiny, maybe things that haven't been thought of in the past. >> and trump also unleashed attacks on ted cruz yesterday, this after cruz told a crowd in south carolina that trump would appoint a liberal judge to the supreme court. >> i think ted is a very unstable guy. i have never ever met a person that lies more than ted cruz. >> this is the most rattled i have ever seen donald this press
conference today. truth matters. and we are not in are grade school where you just get to say liar, liar pants on fire and not respond to the substance. >> so how is all of this going over with the voters in south carolina? we have new polling this morning on the republican race, a new public policy, ppp public policy survey, it was taken, important here, after saturday night's debate and it shows trump still in front, still with a large lead, 35% of the vote basically a two to one lead over ted cruz and marco rubio, a tight race there between the two of them. cruz and rubio tied at 18%. you look further back, kasich, bush and carson. here what we are watching for on the campaign trail today in the palmetto state. republicans have 16 events scheduled all across the state, we are expecting to hear from ted cruz, from jeb bush and from ben carson all within the next hour. and on the democratic side hillary clinton is courting a crucial constituency for her, she will meet with civil rights
leaders at the national urban league in new york later this hour, she will then go to harlem where she will give a speech on race. bernie sanders is making two campaign stops here in south carolina today and later he will attend a rally in atlanta. our nbc reporters are fanned out all across south carolina. peter alexander is here in columbia with the bush campaign, gabe gutierrez is with the rubio campaign down by charleston. peter, let's start with you. for the former president it had been about a decade since we saw him on the campaign trail. he was back last night, we just showed that poll. jeb bush has a long way to go. does the jeb campaign think they got something out of this last night? >> reporter: well, they certainly hope they d this is the secret weapon as some young aids refer to george w. bush, of course, the former president speaking out on behalf of his brother, trying to present a statesman-like figure, he did also provide a direct contrast to donald trump saying that his
brother, jeb bush, is trustworthy, thoughtful, measured, he vouched for his decency and for his judgment as well. but as you noted throughout the course of his remarks last night only a few hours after donald trump laid into john boehner ge and his brother, the brother trying to lift his brother into the most exclusive fraternity in the country. among the comments that w. made, one where he referred to the name calling and said has their father, another president said labels are for soup cans. here is more of w. on donald trump. >> we need to nominate somebody who can win in november. the slogan and all the talk doesn't matter if we don't win. these are tough times and i understand that americans are angry and frustrated, but we do
not need someone in the oval office who mirrors and inflames our anger and frustration. >> reporter: of course, the hope is for the campaign that george w. bush's popularity in the state, roughly 84% favorable rating in the state of south carolina, can translate to jeb going forward, but the latest polls as you've noted showed jeb either in the low teens or maybe at 10 points right now. so he has a real climb ahead of him here. today they will be speaking at a manufacturer of weapons, a contractor for the military. obviously the military is such a critical constituency in this state, responsible for more than 150,000 jobs adding nearly $20 billion to this state's economy. there was a large military community in attendance last night there to see the former commander in chief, in effect, abdicating for the person he thinks would make the next
commander in chief. what struck me when we spoke to people in the crowd is how many of them even as they were there celebrating the returning of a past president were undecided about who they would vote for going forward. real concerns about electing another bush, a third bush, into the white house. they say their top priority is someone that can beat hillary clinton and at this time a lot of them insisted they believe that still may be someone other than jeb bush. >> peter, that's such an important point. what you're reporting from there last night and also i saw this byron york with the washington examiner, he said he talked to 41 people at the jeb bush/george w. bush rally and only four of them said they had actually decided to vote for jeb bush. that is a lot to overcome in a short time for jeb bush. we'll see if the w. -- if the w. effect rubs off. peter alexander, thanks for that. appreciate it. >> reporter: thanks, steve. now to summerville, south carolina, down by charleston,
gabe gutierrez is there. marco rubio has an event scheduled around noon today. gabe, we had that polyp there, trump still running away with this thing in south carolina, now rubio, cruz tied at 18 in second place. what is the rubio game plan here? what are they going to do in the next four days that's going to turn this around and slow down this trump express a in south carolina? >> well, hey there, steve. good morning. well, the marco rubio campaign is very excited about this momentum that they seem to be picking up after that disappointing fifth place finish in new hampshire. i'm not sure they can do much to stop trump right now, but remember, just a few days ago there have been a lot of talk that this was going to be a battle between jeb bush and marco rubio perhaps for third place, for that establishment lane of the party. now this new polling seems to show that he is in a tight race with ted cruz for second place. we've seen it play out over the last day or two, ever since the debate over the weekend where marco rubio has really slashed with ted cruz over immigration. now, cruz has hit rubio over his
support of the so-called gang of eight bill back in 2013 saying that it amounted to amnesty, while rubio has come back and said that ted cruz has had shifting positions over immigration. let's take a listen at something that marco rubio said about ted cruz yesterday. >> you can't just make things up. i mean, especially in this era where everyone is covering everything on a regular on going basis. you can't just make things up and he makes things up and he has made things up about ben carson. it's a very disturbing pattern. >> now, he has repeated that line of attack for the last couple of days. he says he will only respond to attacks when he is attacked, he is trying to stay above the fray and take on hillary clinton and bernie sanders, but when it comes to ted cruz who has really gone after marco rubio over immigration, marco rubio is hitting back hard. now, his advisors say that he seems more relaxed on the stump, told him to listen to his advisors less and be himself. we have seen that over the last
day or so, voters seem to be responding to it, he's getting a lot more crowds but the question will be can marco rubio finish strong here in south carolina, he's trying to appeal to evangelical voters, to voters, to veterans, he keeps repeating on the stump that he wants to rebuild the military, but for marco rubio this is a crucial state, one where he can -- we will have to see if he can rebound from that disappointing finish in new hampshire, but right now, again, him -- he and ted cruz are clark quite a bit, steve. >> all right. gabe gutierrez in summerville, south carolina, thanks for that. about an hour southwest of us here in columbia let's go to nbc's kerry sanders, he is in greenville on his way to north augusta where donald trump will hold a rally later this afternoon. kerry, look, donald trump all the conventional wisdom this is not the first time i feel like a broken record with this, all the conventional wisdom said saturday night, donald trump, he stepped in it, he went too far. we're looking at the new polling today and it's telling us
something very different. >> reporter: it is indeed and donald trump is indeed harolding yet one more poll that seems to show that he is on a roll, that his momentum continues despite criticizing george bush following the attack on the world trade center. here is a tweet that donald trump put out this morning which said new p.p. poll shows just out trump up big, cruz, rubio and bush down, the debate results even with a stacked rnc audience were wonderful. when he's referring to the rnc he's saying the republican national committee he believes stacked the audience with those supporting other candidate and he only had his wife and children in the audience. when he started criticizing george bush and there were cat calls and boos in the audience he says it's because the deck was stacked against him. here is what he had to say filling in a little more at a rally last night with 3,000 people talking about those attacks on 9/11.
>> you know, saddam hussein was a bad guy, but one thing about him, he killed terrorists. now iraq is harvard for terrorism. you want to become a terrorist you go to iraq. saddam hussein understood and he killed terrorists. if the president went to the beach we would have been better off, believe me. >> reporter: donald trump has been taking his private aircraft, going to locations and then returning usually to new york, however, now and for the next five days he says he is going to remain here in south carolina and he's doing what i guess you might call two-a-days now, he has been doing generally gatherings with rallies at night, but now he is going to be doing two a day straight through to the end of the week leading up to the very important south carolina primary. steve. >> all right. nbc's kerry sanders traveling with the trump campaign. thank you for that. lots of big political news to digest in morning. here now two experts in
political journalism, andy shane for the newspaper "the state" he has been covering south carolina politics for a decade and e.g. dooel long time political reporter and columnist for the washington post. this is an mississippi contributor and author of "why the right went wrong." andy, the george w. bush effect on this race, the conventional wisdom saturday night, i saw all the smart people in politics saying you can't say bad things about george w. bush in south carolina and expect not to pay a price politically. are we finding out that was wrong? >> it seems that way. this has only been one poll since the debate on saturday, but, again, trump is holding the same amount of support, he's basically held since august, about a third of south carolina voters have favored him, this is still a pretty big field with six candidates so it's splitting out the support and right now without anyone coalescing behind an establishment candidate it looks like trump is the favorite on saturday. >> you were telling me off the air was it 25 of -- what's the number -- >> he has led 25 of 27 polls, the only polls he hasn't won was
the first a week after he announced he was going to run and one where ben carson got him by a percentage point while he was pretty hot during the fall. >> we were in iowa before this and the race in iowa leading up to the caucuses there it was very close, nip and tuck between cruz and trump and i think that there was a perception in the national media south carolina is a lot like iowa just because there is lots of evangelical voters but what i think what we're finding out is trump came into this state with a much bigger advantage than people realized. >> exactly. we also have more voters. we have almost twice as many folks who are going to go to the polls on saturday as new hampshire and iowa combined. so there is a bigger field for donald to appeal to. again, he has really resonated with the voters here, the republican voters here, who are angry at washington who feel that washington has not done enough to fight terrorists or undocumented workers and that message again continues to resonate no matter what he says against whoever he says. >> and e.j. i was having this, too, if it wasn't donald trump,
if you just said a candidate, nearly won iowa, won new hampshire in a landslide and is leading his nearest competitor two to one in south carolina we would have no problems saying that candidate is probably on his way to the republican nomination, but because it's trump we're waiting to see what is the next shoe to drop here. this guy is in great position if you just look at it on the paper. >> i think that's absolutely right. i think his one down side is that the people who aren't for him tend to be very much against him so there is this ceiling on how high his vote can go if this field ever gets down to a more reasonable size, but i think trump's move against bush was clever on two counts. one, and it's a point i make in my book, there was a backlash on the right hand of the republican party and among libertarians against george w. before he left office and trump is talking to those people. he's not talking to the people who really loved w.
so i'm not shocked that that didn't hurt him. but he's also doing something else and i don't know if this was strategic or not, but when you look at the polls rubio is coming up, bush is kind of down there. by elevating w., i think trump creates a situation where some rubio voters who are kind of establishment pro bush, pro george w. bush will say, wait a minute, i want to stand up for jeb in this and if he can push votes away from rubio and toward bush, he keeps this thing going with a lot of opponents because i think trump knows that when it gets to the winner take all states the more opponents he has the better because he can maintain 30, 35, 40% at the top and as long as the other guys split up the vote he is in pretty good shape. >> yeah, and, i mean, the other thing there, e.j., was watching that contrast, to me watching george w. bush and jeb bush basically speak back to back it
reminded me george w. bush i always thought was an underrated public speaker but the contrast to jeb, jeb following george w., i can see the audience getting excited for george w. and then i could almost see the audience be reminded why maybe they are not convinced to vote for jeb yet. that wasn't necessarily a good contrast for jeb. >> i think you're exactly right. i think people did as bush said misunderestimate two things that as a folksy speaker he was very effective, he was also great at working crowds. that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how you judge his presidency. and there was a kind of connection that jeb didn't have. on the other hand the one thing i also note is jeb seemed much more engaged as turned on after george w. spoke. it seems like w. gave him some kind of pep talk. so jeb was better, but he's still not as good at the campaign stuff as george w. was. >> andy. >> you know, part of the issue
has been that jeb has the front runner here in south carolina before trump got in, you know, then he disappeared. now in the past, what, two weeks, three weeks he's all of a sudden the energy has come up, he's coming back? it seems to be that it's going to be maybe too little too late at this point for jeb. i think the best hope for anyone who is against trump is for those establishment voters, the ones that are for kasich, for bush, for rubio to get together and see if they can match up against trump. >> we've seen this new p.p.p. poll we're talking about, they had a question where they condensed the field to two and three candidates and trump still leading. so the idea that you get the one-on-one shot he's as good adds done that may not be true, either. >> exactly. i think we're unclear about how many new voters, how many voters who haven't voted in a long time that trump is going to bring out because he has brought an excitement to the race that we i don't think people have said they haven't seen in a generation. >> it's an ex trord moment. if you remember nationally in the south carolina primary 16
years ago it made george w. bush. it's a fascinating story. still have a lot more ahead. more in south carolina. the race between the two democrats tightening today. hillary clinton focusing on the african-american vote with a critical meeting and speech with civil rights leaders in new york city, but bernie sanders he is in south carolina, he will also be on georgia making his own pitch to african-american voters. in the next hour sanders will be introduced to actor danny gloefr at a prayer breakfast in columbia. live reports from both locations next. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, and the lowest taxes in decades, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in the hudson valley, with world class biotech.
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we're expect to go hear from hillary clinton and bernie sanders within the next hour. this as they zero in on saturday's democratic presidential caucuses out in nevada. hillary clinton is in new york this morning, she's going to be meeting there with the national urban league just moments from now. bernie sanders is right here in columbia, south carolina, he's going to be attending a faith leaders prayer breakfast. msnbc's ter main lee is in new york but first kasie hunt joins me in columbia. here you are traveling with bernie sanders. we saw new polling come out, there is a national poll that has him within 10 points of hillary clinton. we have a p.p.p. poll, it's protocol greg's for bernie sanders, still not where he needs it to be. how are they looking at this race four weeks out from nevada. >> i think they feel like the wins that he put on the board,
one almost win and then this huge win in new hampshire have really shifted the ground as far as whether or not people are willing to take a look at him and it's opened up the race in a lot of new ways. they're starting to try to focus on this emerging sanders coalition, right, it's a lot of liberal activists, young college kids who are in a lot of debt and hillary clinton's base from 2008. >> that's the part people are just recognizing. >> they were telling me this the night as we were looking at those numbers coming from from new hampshire they were saying these people are breaking for us in overwhelming numbers. they were keeping an eye on people making more money also because that was a group who went for obama in 2008, they thought if we can in over there we have an easy path. their challenge will be latinos and african-american voters, they think they can peel off more latinos probably than african-american voters but they're seeing some progress even among the african-american community. i was with him yesterday at this enormous rally in michigan where thank you for putting me on the spot about the eagles, eastern
michigan university, thank you to preston, my cameraman, but that crowd and reception that he got is another indication of kind of what's going on and part of this is he's starting to get more nationally known. they know that his national media presence is particularly important and they're focused on it. he talked about the power of "snl" and it's led to moments i want to show you one like this from the rally yesterday. >> we have a system in which a small number of people, very small number of people are making huge campaign contributions. >> huge. >> huge is right. [ cheers and applause ] >> i don't know -- i'm going to use that word again. every time i say it 10,000 people are going to echo it. >> it happens every time he says it, it sounds like another candidate we might know who talks a lot about the problems in campaign money in politics.
he's clearly becoming more and more well known and these students who were a at that rally it was incredibly ruckus, the organizers at the stadium said it was the largest crowd they have ever had. >> his whole political life bernie sanders has been the kind of guy if this is not a question literally about policy i have no interest in it and now he is embracing the fun of it a little bit. >> you're completely right about that. you remember that original announcement where he walked out on the capital grounds and said i have a couple minutes to answer questions but then we have to get back. we are very far from this. that's part of his challenge. he needs to tell his personal story, particularly around civil rights and his involvement in early sit ins, his history at the university of chicago and he has to get more comfortable doing that. >> kasie hunt following bernie sanders. appreciate that. thank you. now i want to turn to msnbc's tremaine lee, he is in new york city where hillary clinton is scheduled to meet with african-american leaders a few minutes from now. what can you tell us? >> that's right, receive.
as secretary clinton and bernie sanders vie for this all important black vote she's here today to meet with a whole cautery of influential african-american leaders including reverend al sharpton, mark moreale, cornell brooks of the naacp. moments ago the reverend al sharpton said they want to talk about this coalition's 21st century agenda for jobs and freedom which is about poverty and access to quality education, but he also said that they want to talk about this -- the vacancy on the supreme court. voting rights and affirmative action will be on the docket. and he said that it's so important to discuss this idea that you can't necessarily separate race from economics, race from the poor education outcomes for so many in this country. as they're fighting for this bedrock of the obama coalition clinton is ramping up the aggression in terms of outreach to these african-american
leaders. >> all right. tremaine lee in new york thanks for that. and a reminder that you can watch the town hall tween hillary clinton and bernie sanders thursday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern. chuck todd and jose diaz-balart moderate live right here on msnbc. last time two democrats went head to head in south carolina black voters cast more than half the ballots in this state voting for barack obama over hillary clinton by a four to one margin that was back in 2008. how does clinton turn that loss eight years ago to a victory in 2016? i am joined by the man who spearheaded president obama's african-american outreach eight years ago rick wade. this has been a story we've been hearing for a long time. hillary clinton has -- it's her fire wall, the support from african-american voters in south carolina, but across the south and across the country really. are you seeing any signs that that support in the wake of bernie sanders' win in new hampshire is slipping at all? >> well, listen, i mean, theres no question that bernie sanders has presented a formidable
campaign, he is reaching some african-americans. but i think at the end of the day that hillary clinton will win the black support. i mean, she's been there with the black community nor years, she's not a newcomer, obviously to reaching -- >> i guess the question, though, is how much because the sanders campaign will tell you and casey was talking about this this new coalition that we saw him start to put together in new hampshire, an overwhelmingly quite state but he's winning these blue collar voters who were with hillary clinton in 2008. the sanders will say if we can take her chunk and add maybe not a majority of african-americans but a significant chunk of african-americans that becomes a winning coalition of its own. >> the question is what does significant mean? i'm not confident that he will peel off a significant component of the african-american vote. so i agree with you on the whole model, their model of a coalition with white middle class voters and a percentage, whatever that means, of african-american voters, but, again, i think hillary clinton's record in the black community has been strong. as i move across south carolina and talk to people in the south,
i'm pretty confident that structure is going to stay together. >> explain this one to me, though, 2008 the story we were all told coming out of the 2008 primary in the state was not only did barack obama score this sweeping victory but the clintons did permanent irreparable damage to their relationship with black voters the way that bill clinton campaigned against barack obama, some of the things hillary clinton said throughout that spring in 2008 that the clintons had relied so heavily on plaque support in 1990s had given it up for good in 2008 how is it that all come back over the last eight years? >> first, i don't think it was irreparable damage, i think she's demonstrated certainly as a u.s. senator, as a secretary of state her commitment to embracing barack obama, she's talking more about her being an extension of the policies affordable care act, investing in education, investing in jobs, all of those things that president obama has begun to put in place she's presented herself as an extension. >> was joining the administration essentially working for barack obama was
that penance essentially for hillary clinton? >> well, listen, i mean, it was a good move, but the reality is that whatever damage was done in '08 i think has been repaired and she's demonstrated that her commitment not just to president obama's agenda but again to african-americans. her challenge is this, and i've said this to both campaigns, i've sort of been a free agent so i've offered free advice that, listen, talk it about the issues that matter the most and i can't think of anything more important than jobs, investing this and closing the wealth gap, income inequality, creating more minority -- the economic infrastructure. in addition to all of the things that she's -- black voters have become more analytical, they're more interested in returns on their vote investments, to be more consequential beyond elections and they're more independent, less likely enga engaging group think, they're smarter, digital media, technology, all of those things make us more smarter and we get information in realtime. talk about the issues, go to where people are. don't rely on endorsements, they
matter but at the end of the day votes matter the most. take the message to the people. i'm seeing that in south carolina, she has over 100 staff on the ground i'm told now, 15 offices, they're knocking on doors. take the campaign to the people. that's how we won it with barack. >> he was one of the architects of that obama triumph in 2008. after the break we turn to the battle brewing over the vacant supreme court seat following the weekend's death of antonin scalia. president obama hasn't yet nominated a replacement, the senate isn't in session right now, but the war of words from both sides of the aisle is well under way. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams with all the latest is next. >> the republicans should reject, i think the new president should have that option. >> the practical -- it's all about politics. >> talk about cowardest. >> people of this country should send a clear message that is not the way our constitution works. . to run this business.
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senate republicans are vowing to fight until the end any supreme court nomination from president obama. last night hillary clinton set off a twitter firestorm ending her marathon 11 tweet spree by writing, quote, so a message for senate republicans, fill this vacancy. potus will do his job, do yours. it's worth moegt back in 2006 senator clinton joined with 24 other democrats including then senator barack obama to try to filibuster the nomination of samuel alito, presidents george w. bush's nominee to the supreme court. >> he has rarely sided with individuals seeking relief from discrimination on the basis of race, age, gender or disability. in fact, in the vast majority of civil rights cases, judge aleve
toe has sided with those who would infringe on the civil rights of americans. >> nbc news u. justice correspondent pete williams joins me live from washington, d.c. i've been mentioning this 2006 alito thing for a reason because the republican posture is new in its own way but didn't come out of nowhere. it seems we have reached a point where after a generation of each party kind of moving what's acceptable, the norms on these things it feels more like a culmination than something happens out of the blue. >> let's make no mistake about it, the historical analogies break down here because if you look back far enough it turns out to be more often that the senate did not confirm the nomination of a president in his last year in office. in recent times it's a mixed record, but i don't think any of that really matters because of the confluence of events right now. a much more partisan congress
and there are lots of factors that go into that including battles over previous supreme court justices, but also the fact that this could tip the balance of the supreme court from more or less conservative to more or less liberal and that's really -- that's the most important fact here. so the president has to make a choice about whether he will nominate somebody he thinks is a consensus nominee that could force or persuade some republicans to vote for the nominee. we understand the white house has been reaching out to senate republicans saying, you know, what would it take. there are nominees that would be acceptable to some republicans, but that's -- that's really what's at stake here. much more so than any historical analogy that we can draw. >> i mean, it feels like each side in this picks its own favorite historical analogy and says that's the precedent and how it's supposed to work and you can do it from either side. you mentioned the ideological composition of the court, if
there were a different situation, if ruth bader ginsburg announced her retirement and president obama put forward a liberal justice would this be forward, would republicans let that one go through? >> it might but on the other hand if they thought they could put a conservative in that spot they might relish that, too. perhaps that would be less dramatic for the senate republicans, but it's just -- you know, it's just so -- it's just so tempt to go them when it comes near the end of a president's term, but you're looking at what would happen there. we are at a 4-4 tie now. would the new nominee go on the top with the conservatives or the on the bottom with the more liberal justices that's what's at stake. >> pete williams, appreciate the time. >> you bet. there doesn't seem to be anyone donald trump won't take on. in the past 24 hours trump has had words for jeb bush, george w. bush, ted cruz, even the republican national committee, harsh words, too.
after the break a member of team trump, katrina pierson, joins us live. don't let a cracked windshield ruin your plans. trust safelite. with safelite's exclusive "on my way text" you'll know exactly when we'll be there. giving you more time for what matters most. (team sing) ♪safelite repair, safelite replace.♪ ♪ everything kids touch during cold and flu season sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products.
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♪ donald trump may end up rewriting all of the political rules by the time this election is over, particularly if he can win south carolina this saturday even after going after former president george w. bush, a man of course, who won this state twice in the primaries, although once was uncontested and twice in the general election. >> the worst attack ever in this country it was during his presidency. you mean we had the worst attack ever -- by the way, after that we did okay. that's meaning the team scored 19 runs in the first inning but after that we played well. i don't think so. >> katrina pearson is a national spokeswoman for the trump campaign and she joins me now. katrina, thanks for taking a few
minutes. look, the former president did not say your candidate's name in a speech but it was clear who he was talking about at parts of the speech particularly one where he said real strength, this is what george w. bush said, real strength, strength of core purpose comes from integrity and character and in my experience the strongest person usually isn't the loudest one in the room. what do you say to that? >> well, i think, you know, voters will decide who they think will be the strongest and, you know, i love how this is playing out because now you hear mr. trump talking about, you know, what happened on 9/11, not necessarily what caused it. for example, steve, mr. trump did not say that it was george bush's fault, that he said is that george bush didn't keep us safe. just for clarity when we're talking about safety, remember, donald trump launched his campaign on very serious issues like border security, building a wall, watching the visas, deportations and stopping muslim extremists from coming into the country. when you're talking about donald trump standards of safety he's
right, those things were not in place when george bush was presidents. >> i had this conversation but yesterday and i guess i might ask the same question here but i'm still confused what the difference is between saying that he didn't -- he's not blaming 9/11 on george w. bush but you're saying george w. bush didn't keep us safe. that does seem to be saying george w. bush has responsibility for 9/11. >> well, i think any president should take responsibility for what happens on their watch. i mean, you've heard jeb bush himself say he's going to take responsibility on day one. that's essentially what that means. so mr. trump is specifically talking about safety here and no one disagree that the leadership that george bush had after 9/11 and i think we can all agree that jeb bush is no george bush. >> so where does this go from here? you're talking about this is a former president of the united states coming into south carolina this week, obviously their father george h.w. bush was a president as well. the bush family for decades, for generations has occupied a very sort of high place in the
republican party's sort of infrastructure. if donald trump is the republican nominee does he want the brush family at the convention, on the campaign trail? does he want them around anymore? >> donald trump attended the convention with father bush so this isn't really about the bush family. this is about donald trump being an outsider, being unafraid to talk about the failures on both sides of the aisle and this is what an joud sierd does. donald trump wants to come into this country and make it great again talking about all of the policies that most of these republicans won't even touch. some of these would have never been discussed without donald trump. he is not trying to make enemies of the bush family but no one wants another bush in this country. no one wants to stay in the middle east another 15 years without a plan and donald trump is out there talking to the american people, talking to veterans, talking to the working class in a way that no other candidate has been able to do. >> but when you say he wants to make america great again does that mean america was not great under george w. bush? >> what it means is that we've
had trillions of dollars spent in wars, tens of thousands of lives that have been lost because we have lawyers on the battlefield. he wants to put people back in politics. let the country have a say. we have policies in place from george bush to barack obama that were never popular among the people. i mean, look at these trade deals which are very important moving forward because every other candidate on the stage the other night supports barack obama's fast track to these freed deals which are worse than nafta and nafta eliminated a third of the jobs in south carolina. under bush the trade deficit road from 300 billion to 700 billion. we've imported 400 million foreign workers. so i would say, yes, it's time to get away from that, get back to common sense and putting americans first. >> all right. katrina pierson with the trump campaign, thanks for joining us. >> great to see you, steve. >> all right. while hillary clinton is in new york today and bernie sanders is here in south carolina and then across the border in georgia, they are both keeping one of
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this morning in the "washington post," the journalist who probably knows nevada politics better than anyone, jon ralston, called his state no longer a lock for hillary clinton. msnbc contributor jon ralston, the author of that piece, and april ryan join me now. jon, no longer a lock for hillary clinton. give us your best sense of the lay of the land four days out. >> well, as you know, steve, it's very difficult to get a handle on caucuses as opposed to primaries, especially in nevada since we haven't been doing it that long. all the behavior of the clinton campaign trying to make nevada seem more like iowa and new hampshire when it's nothing like iowa and new hampshire, the fact that she was, as you pointed out, in elko, of all places, in rural nevada, trying to sound like she understands the mining industry yesterday, cancelling events in florida to do three different events in nevada yesterday, making all these visits to cover all of her bases, a couple visits to
casinos, going to meet with unions, those kinds of things, indicate they think nevada is in play. their internal polling must show that. there's no other conclusion. and at the sanders rally a couple days ago, you could see a different kind of crowd, a bigger crowd. there's something going on here. but again, we don't know what the turnout is going to be. a quarter of the turnout, steve, in 2008, were voters who registered on the same day. i think the clinton campaign is worried if there's a similar surge in same-day registration, a lot of those voters could be bernie sanders voters. >> april ryan, what does this do to the national race? you heard as soon as the result came in in new hampshire, the clinton campaign said, all right, that was advantage bernie sanders. now we're getting to the contest where it's a fair fight for us, bigger states, more diverse states, nevada, south carolina. if bernie sanders were able to knock off hillary clinton in nevada, what would it do to the national race? >> moving down the road, because the problem is we are a nation
that is visual. we go by what other people say, oh, well, if iowa voted for this one or new hampshire voted for this one, let's see. if bernie sanders gets two wins, it doesn't look good for hillary clinton, particularly when she has such a major machine. in her corner right now are the minority voters. and she's really trying to push that vote. and today, she's going to be meeting with reverend al sharpton after she gives this big speech in new york on race. >> yeah, and april, do you think that another win, you talk about momentum is always the word in politics. the big mo, that's what george bush, sr. called it 100 years ago, or whenever that was, if there's a win for bernie sanders, you talk about the firewall among african-american voters that she has. does that fade away if bernie sanders puts together win on the board? >> we have to see. i'm thinking back to barack obama. you know, many african-americans were really on the fence before iowa. when it came to barack obama.
they knew the clintons. and they said, oh, well he has a very good chance, but once iowa happened, they said, oh, my gosh, we have the first chance for the first viable african-american who could be president. then, when south carolina hit, when the controversy with south carolina hit with bill clinton, many african-americans definitely jumped ship from clinton and jumped into the obama camp. so people like to see and feel what's going on and feel what other people are saying. hillary clinton is definitely out there, stumping for votes for all people, but she's definitely clear that she's trying to talk about equity and equality for those who are the least of these in this nation, particularly african-americans and hispanics, and right now, she's really trying to get that vote. we have to see what the end will be in nevada and south carolina. >> well, jon ralston, i have to ask this question. we're talking about nevada. if you were making the odds in las vegas for saturday, who do you install as the favorite in the democratic race and by how many points? >> i cannot believe you're putting me in this position,
steve, but i will say right now on tuesday morning, at zero dark 30 out here in nevada, i would set the opening line at hillary minus 5, but i would not put a lot of money on that. a lot is going to happen in the next four days. >> all right, and because i put you on the spot, i have to put myself on the spot, too. i'll say there was one caucus state that hillary clinton won in 2008, only one. and it was nevada. so if you're going to make her the slight favorite right now, if i was doing it, i would probably do the same thing. jon ralston, april ryan, thanks for both joining us. much more from south carolina when we come back. choice for him is aleve. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so... more pills. yep... another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet?
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good tuesday morning from the liberty tap room in columbia, south carolina. i'm chris jansing. just when you thought the stakes couldn't get any higher or the hits any harder, donald trump once again changed everything. this morning, jeb bush and ted cruz with morning town halls where they will try to drive the day's narrative. they are on the rise. both bush and cruz are at the center of increasingly nasty back and forths with donald trump. over just the past 24 hours, trump threatening to sue cruz over his eligibility to be president since he was born in canada. he called the senator both unstable and a liar. >> we will get a lawsuit if he doesn't straighten his act out. a lying guy, a really lying guy.
some people misrepresent, he's a plain out liar. >> donald trump held a press conference, where he apparently lost it. i mean, he was just going on and on about how i'm the most horrible person in the world. because i keep repeating the things he said. >> trump didn't just go off on cruz. he also attacks george w. bush and then by extension, of course, jeb bush, over 43's handling of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. trump clearly trying to stay one step ahead of the huge event last night where 3,000 people came to charleston to see w. and his brother. jeb's biggest crowd since he announced. without mentioning trump's name, 43 fired back. >> a lot of name calling going on. i want to remind you what our
good dad fietold me one time. label s are for soup cans. presidency is a serious job that requires sound judgment and good ideas. and there's no doubt in my mind that jeb bush has the experience and the character to be a great president. >> let's start with nbc's peter alexander who is in columbia, south carolina. so and kerry sanders also on the phone outside of north augusta where donald trump will hold a rally. let's start with the fight between trump and bush because you were there last night. and i found it really interesting, you know, he essentially was there to tell the world while he thinks his brother should be president. it also became a lot about defending his own record around 9/11, defending his brother, give us a sense of where all this stands right now, peter. >> well, what strug us and we were at both the news conference for donald trump and four hours later, hearing from bush 43, the
former president speaking on behalf of his brother, different stylings of these two individuals. you had the former president speaking statesmanlike and eviscerating his brother's rival without ever mentioning him by name, while donald trump was the opposite, brash and bombastic, as he tends to be, doing the same in the opposite direction. directed toward the bush brothers right now. but clearly, there's a lot of pressure on the bush family, on jeb bush as they come to a state that has been a big asset to both his father and to his brother in the past. both of them won two presidential primaries here when they were running for president. in the past, and george w. bush has about 84% favorability in the state. the question is will that translate to jeb bush? george bush on the stage last night talking about what he described as his brother's deep and genuine faith, saying it's revealed in his good -- i think good acts, he described it, and not his loud words, trying to
cast that big contrast between the two. suggesting his brother is trustworthy, thoughtful, and is measured. clearly, this is a fight they're trying to sell. one they invested in. they have been the first to attack donald trump, and jeb bush appears to be sticking to the line all the way through. >> and i wonder what they feel they accomplished last night, besides what i'm sure the campaign line is, that it was a great night and they got 3,000 people and there was a lot of enthusiasm, all of which are true. do they think it's enough to move the needle? >> well, that's the question. the question is does that translate over to another bush, to a third bush, and what struck us at the event, we spoke to a lot of people. as you noted, this was the biggest event jeb bush has seen all campaign. more than 3,000 people in attendance. a lot of them proudly wearing their jeb stickers and big fans of the bush family and dynasty, but many said they're still undecided in who they're going to vote for.
a lot of reporting from other people like us in the crowd speaking to individuals who say they're leaning toward donald trump, some leaning toward jeb bush. some are still considering john kasich, among others still in the fight. it's their priority for the bush campaign that they have a third-place finish. they believe this is a fight to beat marco rubio in skauouth carolina. if they don't, it will put a lot of pressure on the campaign as the race moves forward. the ultimate decisive place might be the state of florida, the home state for marco rubio and jeb bush. there's a lot at stake in this state. so much so, the former president met with nikki haley. jeb bush has met with her on multiple occasions as well. that's an endorsement -- that could go to bush or rubio. haley conceivably a vice
president candidate for them. >> thank you. before we go to the trump campaign, i want to make note of what we're seeing in the corner, the civil rights meeting in new york city that hillary clinton is holding, and that's mark moreal, who is head of the national urban league. reverend al sharpton is on her other side, a host, of course, of msnbc. we're keeping our eye on that. kerry sanders is on the phone. he has been with donald trump. tell us a little bit about what that campaign is talking about this morning, what their strategy is, what's going on after both of these guys, and what's on the agenda today. >> interestingly, there's a rather large group of people who have gathered in the area with their cell phones lined up to try to get a picture of either donald trump on their cell phone or a selfie with him. he will be speaking in north augusta today. he's doing what i guess you can call two-a-days now. he's doing two rallies today and through the rest of the week across the state.
spending his time continuously in the state rather than what he's done in previous times where he would fly home to new york. he does have a private jet. interestingly, one of the things he has done, yesterday, he came out and really hammered on george w. bush being in charge of 9/11. not only did he hammer, as peter alexander mentioned during the press conference, and quite a contrast to have jeb bush with his brother campaigning, but he continued a little along those lines in front of 3,000 people in greenville, south carolina, last night, who all came to hear him at a rally. i spoke to some of those voters afterwards and asked them what their thoughts were. as we have reported, the audience here in south carolina voters are very pro-military and george w. bush had a very strong level of support from the state. among those trump supporters, i got a mixed reaction. some of them said just sort of straight up, well, it's true,
isn't it? george w. bush was president at the time we were unfair attack. then they seemed to give donald trump a pass, saying, well, that's just donald trump, but he speaks the truth. those who seem to be following him seem to say that of course there's been a lot of this where donald trump has said some things that to many people have been outrageous. those followers, voters, fans, continue to say but he's still my man. chris. >> kerry sanders, who is on the road with donald trump, thank you so much for that. marco rubio, meantime, is still trying to get back some of the momentum he lost after iowa. this morning, he held a town hall in beaufort, south carolina. vowing to boost military spending, improve veteran benefits, and slash taxes if he's elected president. jason rowe is the senior adviser to marco rubio and he's with me. good to see you. thanks for coming in.
you're laughing off camera when donald trump was calling ted cruz a liar. >> yeah. he's entertaining. he's certainly drawn a lot of attention to this nationally, and probably in some ways done the republican primary process a favor. and in a lot of ways he has not done us a great service, but it's been entertaining. >> in what ways has he not done you a favor, do you think? because here's one argument that's been made. frankly, the whole tone of this, and it's not just donald trump, to be fair. a lot of people have, for better or worse, gotten down in the mud and are really fighting it out. and ultimately, it's going to damage whoever the nominee is. >> i think there's some truth to that. listen, the reality is he's an entertainer and he's soaked up a lot of the oxygen around this race. >> also brought a lot of attention to the race. >> brought a lot of attention, but i also think in some ways he's not necessarily represented who the new modern republican party is, where as marco rubio really does represent what the future of the republican party, what the future of conservatism is. to the degree he's brought
attention to candidates like marco rubio so people can see what a great candidate and what a great leader he would be, i don't necessarily think that he represents the best face of who republicans really are. >> let's talk about your candidate, and i want to know if you think this is a proper analysis that a lot of people are giving now. ultimately on the other side, somebody is going to have to come forward as an alternative to donald trump. if donald trump is not going to be the nominee, and obviously, you don't want him to be. somebody is going to have to emerge as the alternative, to do that, a winnowing process is going to have to happen after south carolina, continue, and fairly quickly, try to establish so it's a one-on-one race. do you buy that assessment? >> i do, because frankly, i think marco is the best candidate to be the face of our party going into the future. i think he's the best candidate in november. frankly, i think people out there who want to vote for ted cruz or donald trump are effectively voting for hillary clinton or bernie sanders because neither of those candidates is going to measure up in november, whereas marco
rubio represents generational change, a new face for our party, and really, i think, new leadership as a conservative voice for our party. >> it is something you have been saying, the candidate has been saying, but clearly it's not resonating to the point that it's bringing up the numbers. if you look at the latest south carolina poll, pretty much everybody after donald trump is bunched together so closely that from second place to sixth place is only separated by five points, which by the way, is the margin of error. how do you make sure you're not one of those people who is shown the door after south carolina? >> i guess it depends on what poll you look at. the ppp poll shows marco rubio and ted cruz tied at 18%. the other candidates polling in the single digits drop out of the race and you have the preferences of those voters and undecideds, they break for marco rubi rubio. you have the anti-trump voting in that polling shows 65% of south carolina republican voters
do not favor trump. as i think rubio gets momentum and starts to consolidate that, i think we'll have a real alternative and a much better voice for our party. >> jason roe, good of you to come in. right now, hillary clinton is trying to strengthen what is thought to be her southern firewall, her support among african-americans. we have been showing you this. her meeting with civil rights leaders in new york ahead of a major speech on race relations. and as a sign her campaign is worried, she canceled a planned campaign trip to florida on monday to stay in nevada to campaign before the caucus there. at the same time, bernie sanders is expected any minute at a prayer breakfast at shirley m murdoch university in columbia where he's hoping to boost support with young people, but it's this moment in reno that has everyone talking. hillary clinton remembering an old arkansas political ad featuring a dog that would bark when someone lied. >> we need to get that dog and follow him around and every time they say these things, like, oh,
you know, the great recession was caused by too much regulation -- you know. >> let me bring in msnbc national reporter trymaine lee in new york, and first of all, i have to say, people have been telling us on the hillary clinton campaign that if you can see her the way we see her, you would see how much fun she is, so that definitely was a looser side of hillary clinton. but let's talk about the serious business of the african-american vote. so critical here and in nevada. how real do you think is the threat that voting block is becoming more and more up for grabs in this democratic primary? >> i think many folks will tell you it's not so much up for grabs, but as bernie sanders is exciting young black people in particular in the south, the clinton campaign has to rebolster and embolden their efforts in reaching out to the african-american community. hillary clinton is upstairs right now, meeting with a pretty
influential and powerful group of black leaders, including al sharpton, mark moreal, cornell brooks of the ncacp. moments ago, i spoke with cornell brooks as he rushed in for the meeting. i asked him what he expected to walk away with. he said some enlightenment and insurance. i didn't get a chance to ask a follow-up question about what that meant, but so many folks are hoping hillary clinton will lay out a plan on how she plans to aid the black community. later in harlem in the institute for research and culture, she plans to deliver a speech where she will lay out that plan. one thing i thought was interesting on the press release ahead of the speech, she wants to talk just beyond criminal justice reform. she wants to talk about breaking down barriers in terms of systemic racism. you'll remember several months ago, black lives matters and other activists pushed bernie sanders and hillary clinton on that note.
what do you plan to do to break down systemic racism that they say is so insidious in american culture. while bernie sanders is pushing forward and kind of exciting so many people, hillary clinton is leaning on the traditional black establishment, while sanders is appealing to what you could call the black intelligentsia, the author of the new jim crowe has supported him. you look at an endorsement or tepid support of bernie sanders, so i don't think she has her hands full, but again, she's here to make sure that she patched up any holes in the wall in terms of her black support. >> it is fascinating to watch. trymaine lee, thank you so much. msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt is here with me. you have spent a lot of time with the folks on the sanders campaign. he has really amped up this outreach, and there's a sense, isn't there, in his campaign that at least some of it is indeed up for grabs? >> i do think that they feel like they can make some inroads, particularly with young
african-americans. and going out to the events i have covered with sanders over the course of the past couple weeks, those have been the people that we have seen at these rallies. we were just at a large rally outside detroit, ypsilanti, michigan, yesterday. a huge crowd, many of the african-americans in the crowd tended to be on the younger side. of course, when hillary clinton's campaign looks at south carolina, they feel like there are a lot of older, reliable black voters who have showed up in every primary for a long, long time, and those people, the sanders campaign acknowledges, may be harder to win. >> i kind of put it this way. they don't remember bill clinton, right? a lot of young voters weren't around or at least not conscious of politics when he was president. don't remember some of the things that hillary likes to now talk about in her stump speech about when she was fighting for things, even before she met her husband. it is sort of like the what have you done for me lately campaign, right? >> to a certain extent, yeah,
and we were talking about the black lives matter movement, and there's been some back and forth on what is the best way to approach fighting for rights in the wake of what's happened in ferguson and all of that. i think there is a sense among the sanders campaign that those are the kinds of activists they can appeal to through social media. the sanders campaign has been very effective at selling bernie sanders to young people that way. and i think that they have been particularly focused on trying to make sure they do that. they did a forum on black america actually outside of minneapolis late last week, didn't get a lot of coverage because it was late on a friday night, but it was one of the more interesting events bernie sanders has attended. he was pushed by the crowd, but they would have pushed hillary clinton hard as well. he came out no worse for wear, and having had a chance to get his message out to that particular group. >> one of the things that impresses he how much people know her in the audience and the questions they ask, as much as they do put the candidates on the spot. thank you so much, kasie hunt. don't miss a huge avent that is
coming up on thursday. jose diaz-balart and chuck todd will moderate the town hall coming up in las vegas, live on msnbc from 9:00 to 11:00 p.m. eastern. 6:00 to 8:00 pacific time. so much ahead on this busy tuesday morning where a lot of the action is here in south carolina. bernie sanders at that prayer breakfast here in columbia. ted cruz on the "uss yorktown" in mt. pleasant, expected to deliver a speech on rebuilding the u.s. military about ten minutes from now. we'll see jeb bush at a local gun manufacturing plant. also in columbia, not every day you see a town hall in one of those places. we're watching hillary clinton as well in new york meeting with the civil rights leaders. so much unfolding this hour on msnbc live.
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-- unless every single person has the chance to live up to theirs. i have followed the belief and mantra that i want to see every child have a chance to live up to his or her god-given potential since my days with the childrens defense fund. i still believe that has to be at the core of our mission as a nation. and the work that each and every one of your organizations do is in furtherance of civil rights and economic justice and social justice, and you know, political participation. so i am grateful for what you all have done for so many years. if we were to add up the many hundreds and hundreds of years represented by the organizations here today, it would stretch back before the founding of our country. because it's been such a core commitment by those who came
before that you are now continuing. i look forward to talking about the agenda that each of you have put forth, giving you my ideas about what we can do to be effective. and making clear that i'm not a single issue candidate. we don't live in a single-issue country, and we have work to do. and that work can only be done in partnership with one another to advance the cause of civil and human rights and to, as you said, live up to the ideals of our country, which is exactly what our goal must be. so thank you, mark. >> that's hillary clinton at the national urban league offices down on wall street in new york city. the mark she's referring to, the head of the organization, mark morealas the fight for the african-american vote heats up. it's unbelievable, the intensity of what has been going on there in new york city.
here, of course, in south carolina. but let's talk about the next big fight in washington, d.c. and that is over the replacement for supreme court justice antonin scalia, which some people are predicting could throw the country into a constitutional crisis. this morning, even republicans from purple states are coming out and saying president obama should not nominate and lead the next president to appoint the next justice. kelly ayotte backing mitch mcconnell's stance, no new supreme court justice. harry reid penned a piece attacking the republicans and saying the founding fathers must be, quote, rolling in their graves. joining me now, ari melber. let me start with pete williams who is in washington for us. first of all, i know you're reporting that justice scalia's chair on the supreme court bench has been draped in black, which is a tradition at the supreme court. a sign of respect. but how quickly this has turned
political. and what do you make of these predictions that we could be on the verge of a constitutional crisis? >> right, and first on that tradition, his chair and the part of the bench where he sat, he was the most senior associate justice, the chief justices automatically, the senior justice no matter how long he's been in the court, but he was the court the longest. that will remain there. and the flags, of course, are at half staff on the supreme court plaza. in terms of honors, one other note. we're waiting to hear whether he'll be given the honor of lying in repose in the supreme court's great hall, which was last done for willian rehnquist in 2005. on the constitutional crisis thing, i guess it always depends on what your definition of that is. if what you mean is one branch of the government is not living up to its obligations or is ignoring part of the
constitution, that's the question here. of course, it says the president shall nominate someone when there's a vacancy, but it doesn't say the senate has to confirm them. so i guess there's a difference between constitutional crisis and civic responsibility here. that's sort of what this debate is about. >> and we're going to hear part of that debate, at least one side from president obama this afternoon, ari. he's holding a news conference, and the question is whether he's going to throw a curveball out there. let's make a couple points. one, he is a constitutional lawyer. he has shown an ability to push through some appointments that republicans didn't want. loretta lynch, silviylvia burwea couple examples. people have gotten through before. these confirmations processes with, you know, strong if not overwhelmi overwhelmingly, overwhelming approval, that they have great personal stories. what are we expecting from the president, and could he throw a curveball today? >> i have spoken with white
house aides about this since justice scalia's passing. they emphasize there is a precedent here, and the president nominates, the senate holds hearings and a vote, and they want that in a timely manner. i would expect the president to want to continue that, to not get into names if he's asked about it. that's how they look at it. we're a long way from business as usual but still a long way yet from what a true constitutional crisis would look like. to me, that would look like a problem where the court remained with the vacancy for a very long time and some sort of crisis-related issue hit the court and had to be resolved 4-4 and left questions of legitimacy or unrest or you go into a new year and get a republican president and a senate with democrats in it potentially trying to block that filling of the vacancy if they feel over the coming year, president obama's nominee hasn't been treated fairly. that would be closer again to a crisis problem if you feel politics turned into endless
vacancies. the other problem is new reporting i have from talking to sources about another way this could go down. republicans saying essentially no vote for the president's nominee, whoever it is. and that they would then maybe strengthen the hand if they win back the white house. there is another way this could go down, theoretically, which would be if republicans win back the white house but democrats won back the senate, there is in the constitution a 17-day window between january 3rd when the new senate comes in and january 20th when the president in this case, president obama, leaves. that's 17 days of power for the president. so if his nominee was rejected or not voted on, there would be a possibility with a democratic senate to try to ram it through. that would be controversial. i'll read in closing one quote from a source who didn't want to speak about this on the record but was a lawyer in the obama administration who told me if a democratic senate comes in on january 3rd, president obama could send in his supreme court nomination, then democrats could apply the nuclear option supreme
court nominations and vote in that nominee by a simple majority. that's one other way this could go down if the hardball continues. >> ari melber, pete williams, thanks to both of you. and back to politics. well, of a different kind. presidential politics. ted cruz holding a rally off the southern coastal town of mt. pleasant. expected to talk about his plan to rebuild the u.s. military. you want to know how important the military is in south carolina? it's responsible for more than $19 billion to this state every year. let's listen in. >> joined with barack obama and hillary clinton and urged the takedown of gadhafi and declared it had turned out just fine. just months before four americans including ambassador stevens died in a terrorist attack in benghazi. we must return a sense of prudence and foresight and careful assessment to american foreign policy before ever committing american resources.
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his wife today, tirelessly campaigning. this time, about 100 miles from here, just down the road in greenville, south carolina. but his presence raises an age-old question for the clintons. is the former president a strength of a liability? supporters of hillary clinton often point to the former president's work on behalf of african-americans as reason to support her, but he's also the one who may have paved the way for her defeat eight years ago when he called obama's candidacy a fairy tale just days before south carolina voters went to the polls. joining me now, jay todd rutherford, who endorsed hillary clinton just last week. was it an internal struggle for you to figure out who you were going to back? >> as the leader of the democrats in the house, i felt like it was my job to make sure i wasn't jumping in too soon. i did evaluate both candidates the way i think i should have.
i looked at bernie sanders and the fact he's still an independent in the senate, he's never been a democrat before in his life, even though he may lean that way. this is about building the party in the south and making sure the party moves forward. that's my job as democratic leader in the house and that's the president's job. that's why i supported hillary clinton and i believe she can win in south carolina as well. >> another concern is you feel he's only recently started talking about issues that are important to african-americans. but listen to what one of your league colleagues who is now supporting bernie sanders told me yesterday. >> he's talking about things i'm passionate about, things i fight for in my community. >> such as? >> racial justice, economic justice, social justice. >> all things hillary clinton would argue, i have been on the forefront of that. >> yeah, arguably. the difference between bernie and hillary is that bernie has been saying these things for his entire career. >> i hear that a lot from young voters. they feel somehow that bernie
sanders has been consistent throughout his career. and hillary clinton is saying what's politically expedient. what argument would you make to that? >> the problem is all they have to do is do what millennials do, google images and see what he has done lately. see where he was with president obama. when i did it, i found one picture. he and president obama had their hands out. that's all i could find. if you want to talk about those who have been involved in the process and civil rights, look at the clintons. for her entire career, since she got out of law school, that's what she did. we talked to vernon jordan last night. >> he finally made it. his plane was delayed. >> he talked about what they were doing. this was in the '60s and early '70s. this is not some johnny come lately, as bernie sanders is. he is talking about issues important to african-americans for the last 40 days. >> why do you think there's perception out there, especially among youth, who frankly weren't around back then, weren't
politically conscious when bill clinton was president, and do uthink he helps or hurts her? >> the problem with bernie sanders is this, he's promising people everything. as a politician, i can tell you he's the kind of person if he was running against me, i would vote for him if he could accomplish anything of the things he's talking about. he's doing a disservice when he comes here and promises he's going to pay for college tuition and do all these things he simply cannot accomplish. senator clinton, one of her problems is she's binded by reality, what she knows she can accomplish. she's by far the most educated, the most -- the best person for this job. bernie sanders is promising the moon. he can't deliver on any of it. and it's doing a disservice to the people of south carolina. >> can we talk about infrastructure. hillary clinton had only two campaign offices and 14 full-time staffers compared to ten offices and 240 full-time staffers. we heard the numbers from clinton have increased, but are you worried about the ground
game? >> we always worry about ground game. we worry about everything. politics is a game changer overnight. what we understand is the clintons have been coming to south carolina for decades. they have friends here across the spectrum, that when president clinton came to the state house two weeks ago, we had to keep republicans out of the room. everybody wants to see the clintons. and kn everybody knows the history in the state, what they brought to bare. she's still up by about 20 points. it's indicative of her strength that she only had that many. i'm glad to see it's moving forward now, that we're increasing the numbers here, but i can tell you, those of us who support erher, we're going to carry her over the finish line. >> thank you for coming in. >> senator bernie sanders is at a prayer breakfast with faith leaders here in columbia, south carolina. let's take a listen. >> we have four wonderful kids and seven beautiful grandchildren. as joe neal just said, what i
believe and what i want is i want you to be concerned and worried about my grandchildren. i want you to make sure that my grandchildren have as good a life as they possibly can. and i in turn will worry about you and your children and your grandchildren because truthfully, we are all in this together. choice for him is aleve. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres to cover by sundown. we'll be with him all day as he goes back to taking tylenol. yeah, i was ok, but after lunch my knee started hurting again so... more pills. yep... another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? for my pain... i want my aleve. get all day minor arthritis pain relief with an easy open cap.
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can a a subconscious. mind? a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? so here's a place you don't see a campaign event every day. jeb bush is about to hold a town hall with employees of a firearm manufacturing plant here in columbia, south carolina. he needs a very strong showing here, and he pulled out all the stops at a campaign event last night with his brother. former president george w. bush, whoing to a not so veiled swipe at donald trump. >> i understand that americans
are angry and frustrated. but we do not need someone in the oval office who imflames our anger in frustration. we need someone who can fix the problems that cause our anger and frustration, and that's jeb bush. >> jim is a south carolina republican strategist and adviser to jeb bush's campaign. thank you for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> i found the speech fascinating last night. it was in many ways what you would expect it to be, which was a campaign speech for his brother, laying out the reasons why he believes people should vote for him for president. but there was also a lot of defending of his own record, particularly around 9/11, and of his brother against donald trump. is that a sign of just how
uphill the battle is that you have to fight here in south carolina to even begin to challenge donald trump? >> well, south carolina is really a commander in chief state, as part of the decision making process. 40 admirals and generals have endorsed jeb bush. we have over 100 on our veterans leadership team here in south carolina. adding former commander in chief to the list, we welcome. these are serious times. they require serious people with serious solutions. ultimately, the question is who can go on to win the general election. donald trump has disqualified himself from that. he'll never get above 30%, 35% of the republican electorate and even less when you go to a general election. there's too much at stake in november, really, to give up on that. >> i do understand your argument, serious times for serious people. the whole question of electability. but the rules seem to have been thrown out this year.
when you look at the latest poll that was done here in south carolina, jeb bush is polling at 10%, which is fifth place. donald trump beating the field by a wide margin. 20 points ahead, more than double of what john kasich has. that has to be worrying for you. >> well, no, what's important is the poll on election day. so we'll keep plugging away. we'll keep talking about the record of executive experience. it's important to have experience. it's important to have policies and accomplishment. that's what people are looking for in south carolina. and jeb bush has done that, whether it's education in florida with voucher programs, whether it's proposals to break up industrial age programs in washington, d.c. and replace those with a balance budget amendment or sending programs back to the states. that's what people care about. and south carolina voters are very discerning and typically don't decide until the last minute. we're going to keep campaigning around the state and telling the jeb bush story, and how we can
have a better tomorrow. how we have to have solutions to problems and that's really what jeb bush brings to the table. >> jim dyke, thanks for taking the time. >> thanks for having me. >> the democratic primary here one week after the gop votes and then the nevada democratic caucus four days away. minority voters will play big in both of those races. an area seen as a strong suit for hillary clinton, but is bernie sanders making inroads? with me now, jimmy williams, a south carolina native and host of decode d.c. good to see you. good morning. >> good to see you. >> so you know this state and its democratic voters very well. is there anything bernie sanders can do, if not to win here next week, to make it uncomfortably close for the clinton camp? >> well, a couple things. first, the newest triple p poll that came out, hillary clinton is up by 21 points. that doesn't shock anyone. shouldn't shock anyone. second, the millennial voters
are the largest voting block, i'm sorry, not true. millennials are the largest demographic in south carolina now at 27%. you combine them with gen-xers, they make up 47% of the population. what happens and do they turn out for bernie sanders? you have to look at certain pockets of the state, the upstate, rock hill, charleston, columbia, high-tech areas where jobs are created, et cetera, and millennials are moving there because they can get decent salaries. rent is cheap. it's an issue of motivation. can bernie sanders turb out more millennials than hillary clinton can turn out older white voters and african-americans in south carolina? that's the struggle. hillary clinton also is opening up, you mentioned it before, and you were talking with todd rutherford about it, 13 more offices across the state. that's a smart move. she probably should have done that a couple months ago. but it's a matter of turnout and i don't ever doubt the clinton team when it comes to turning
out in south carolina. it's something they know how to do. >> you mentioned the black vote. very important. when you look at the breakdown of the 2008 democratic primary here, black women made up more than a third of the electorate. i mean, what do you think? will that be the case this year? how much have things changed in the past eight years? >> women aren't monolithic, but they certainly do vote for other women. i'll take my mother for for example. you ask about black women. my mother is a white conservative woman in south carolina. she's lived there her entire life. she rarely travels outside of the state, and she's voting for hillary clinton. she's conservative. that happens. you're going to see a lot of that. the question is, again, will people turn out? what's the gotv down there? if african-american women are asked to turn out and vote, they will. i'm also looking to see what jim clyburn does, the senior member of the delegation. he's not endorsed, my understanding is he's going to do that soon. if he does for clinton, that's
good for her. >> jimmy williams, always good to see you. thank you so much. >> thank you, chris. quick programming note. don't miss msnbc and telemundo's hillary clinton/bernie sanders town hall coming up in las vegas. it will be moderated by jose diaz-balart and chuck todd thursday, live on msnbc. 9:00 to 11:00 eastern, 6:00 to 8:00 pacific. king to your rheumatologist about a biologic... this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure.
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the democratic race continues to heat up here in south carolina, where bernie sanders is kicking off a big day of campaign events at a prayer breakfast here in columbia, as he tries to cut hillary clinton's overwhelming lead in the state. joining me now, a former south carolina democratic state chairman. recently endorsed senator sanders. thanks so much for being here. >> thank you. >> what makes you think bernie sanders is the guy? >> well, you know, i have a string of picking the guys. in 1991, i met this red neck
governor from arkansas -- >> by the name of bill clinton, if i recall. >> i went to new hampshire with him, went door to door with him. nobody gave him a kid. he became the president of the united states. in march of '07, this big eared african-american guy sat down for a cup of coffee with me. i was committed to hillary clinton. after an hour, i committed to him. >> what did he say? >> he's inspirational. they want to make a change and they represent a change. >> when you say both of these guys? >> clinton and obama. >> bernie sanders to me is an inspirational guy. he's offering change, and not only is talking the talk but he's walking the walk. he's not selling out to the special interests. i sue pharmaceutical companies and banks. they're bad people. he's going to fight them. hillary is owned by them. >> you have a situation here where she's so far ahead and adding offices and staff, so they're really ramping it up here. you're going to go see bernie sanders in just a short time.
>> ten minutes. >> what are you going to say to him if he says how am i going to pull this off? >> keep doing what you're doing. keep doing what you're doing because he's connecting. after i announced for bernie about two and half, three weeks ago, i went into a restaurant called mr. friendly's. ricky, you owe me for that. and people from tables, people i assumed would be establishment kinds of folks, came up and shook my hand and said, we need change. bernie sanders is that change. >> you look at the demographics, and we mentioned earlier, african-americans make up about half of the electorate in the primary. overwhelmingly, black voters are backing hillary clinton. clinton carrying 74% of likely democratic primary voters who are african-american compared to 19%. >> well, that was three weeks ago, four weeks ago. things are moving. i know bernie sanders folks have knocked on or called a million people in the last six weeks. they have television up that's very effective.
this is a guy that marched with martin luther king, was arrested for civil rights in a civil rights demonstration in chicago, is not only, again, talked the talk. he's walked the walk. and hillary, you know, while he was getting arrested in chicago, she was supporting goldwater. it's not -- there's a distinct difference between the two. this is a clear choice. african-americans are ripped off by banks and pharmaceutical companies as much as if not more than white folks. so they understand the money, and they understand that he represents change, just like barack obama did. >> jay, obviously a passionate supporter of bernie sanders. good to see you again. >> good to see you. >> that's going to wrap up this hour of msnbc live from columbia, south carolina. i'm chris jansing. i will see you back here tomorrow from the site of the nevada caucuses. thomas roberts is up next.
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hi, everybody. good morning. i'm thomas roberts. we're live here in columbia, south carolina, where this super tuesday it's very busy. the presidential candidates in both parties are turning up the heat as they chris cross the state. down to four days until the first in the south presidential primary and democratic caucus out west in nevada. jeb bush is about to hold a town hall at a gun manufacturing plant here in columbia and coming off a really big night. his rally in charleston. jeb bush's biggest crowd yet as he was joined on the campaign trail by his brother, former president george w. bush, and laura bush, former first lady, and across town, donald trump doubled down, leveling his strongest criticism yet of the bush 43 administration. as their fight intensifies, our newest poll out this morning shows trump now with a commanding lead. 38% nationwide. up three points from a week ago. his closest rival being ted
cruz. a commanding 56% of republican voters now believe he will win the republican nomination. that's up by 14% for donald trump. nbc's peter alexander is also reporting in columbia and joins me from the site of jeb bush's town hall that will happen in a moment. peter, i think a lot of people perceive jeb bush in a new light. they saw him standing a little taller, people noticed him without glasses. he seems reinvigorated by having his family around. >> that's the campaign's hope, that it reinvigorates him and supporters, in the state to help the otherwise stalled campaign. you can see we're here with jeb bush's bus at the gun manufacturing location. he's a few minutes behind, going to get a private tour and then hold a town hall here. one of many events as they have acknowledged they're putting a lot of capital, energy, money, and time into the state, recognizing that they need to
overperform expemitations. they won't say it, but third place is critical for the campaign, which says a lot, given a lot that h.w. bush, president 41, and w., 43, won their presidential primaries here. we're looking over our shoulder because we think the candidate is going to walk off the bus any moment. both won the place. so third place, which would be considered a victory in many ways because it would keep them alive at the anti-trump, anti-cruz candidate, is still snot rema not remarkable. we were there at the event. so many people came because they talked about their admiration for the bush family, for 41 and 43. their respect for jeb bush as well, but they also indicated they felton comfortable, a lot of people, with voting for another bush. this idea of any family dynasty, whether it be clinton or bush going forward. a lot of them mentioning names like, believe it or not, donald trump or marco rubio, one of jeb bush's other chief rivals here. thomas. >> peter alexander, keep us
posted on when jeb bush and his event starts. thanks. want to bring in the panel. former speechwriter to george w. bush, now senior editor for the atlantic, david crum. hogan gidley, and msnbc national correspondent joy reid. good to have you here. david, let me start with you, though, because when you look at the latest numbers out, the cb u you gov poll shows trump up by 42% in south carolina. look at these numbers because ted cruz is the closest one at 20%. and jeb bush is at 6%. we have his speech yesterday. hearing from the former president, george w. bush, not mentioning donald trump by name, but he definitely used trump's campaign as creating this contrast to his brother jeb. take a look. >> strength is not empty rhetoric. it is not bluster. it is not theatrics.
real strength, strength for purpose comes from integrity and character. and in my experience, the strongest person usually isn't the loudest one in the room. these are tough times. and i understand that americans are angry and frustrated. but we do not need someone in the oval office who mirrors and inflames our anger in frustration. >> so david, can jeb bush break the double digits with the help from his brother, or do you think it could backfire because donald trump only uses that appearance by 43 to hammer jeb? >> we all want to be cautious with polls. they are -- we all learned how troubling unreliable the former science of polling has become. but that poll feels right. and i don't think the situation is helping jeb bush.
what the former president said was profoundly true. it is true that the loudest voice is not the strongest voice. that's why what happened on saturday was so important. through the campaign, republicans have had to watch, here on the stage, right in front of you is a domineering irrational bully. the world is full of those. here over here is a man who would like to be that quietly strong commander in chief to deal with the domineering irrational bully. how does he do it? because jeb bush has always flinched from those encounters, the problem is not that republicans don't understand that trump is a bully. the problem is they don't see in jeb bush the strength to meet the bully. >> all right, and let's talk about that. hogan, let me ask you because we had jeb on stage with his brother. across town, donald trump doubling down about the critique that the former president kept us all safe. this is something jeb said on the debate stage. take a look at donald trump. >> i didn't say it. i didn't want to say it. but he talked about the tremendous safety. well, excuse me, the world trade
center came down during the reign of george bush. it came down. i heard for years he kept the country safe after 9/11. what does that mean, after? what about during 9/11? you obviously had the war, which was a big mistake. few people would say the war in iraq was a tauz positive. you had him on the aircraft carrier saying all sorts of wonderful things, how the war was essentially over. guess what. not over. and the war with iraq was a disaster. >> as we look back at history, at the start of the war, overwhelmingly supported by the republican base. we know that donald trump is not going to surrender this point. but is it unmentionable for republicans to say, you know what, i am angry about the iraq war. i do want to talk about it. in a way that doesn't have to lessen how impactful my vote can be moving forward? shouldn't republicans own what it means? >> well, he's trying to do that from the stage. it's obvious that donald trump has struck a nerve with
republicans, and jeb bush in large measure has been off limits to this point. it looks like donald trump is hitting something here. i was at the debate, and they said, he's right. it did come down on his watch. the tricky part is can you thread the needle and say since 9/11, he kept the country safe, he revamped national security and was able to perform successfully. that's true, but the fact remains the towers did come down on his watch. it's not his fault, and trump didn't make that point. that's where some people were upset. but george w. bush is extremely popular in this state. >> meanwhile, joy, i know you covered jeb bush as florida's governor. shouldn't he be vetted for his own record. why is he heldachiable for his brother's record? >> yes and no. he has benefitted from the contrast with his brother. he was seen as the competent brother when it came to his handling of hurricanes, for instance, in florida, versus
george w. bush's handling of hurricane katrina in new orleans, and seen as the more serious brother. he was a neocon when george w. bush was trying to be baseball commissioner. but their political skills have presented a negative contrast with george w. bush. they both ran for governor in 1994. jeb bush made huge mistakes on the trail, including telling black voters he would probably do nothing for them, narrowly losing the race. he's never been close to the politician george w. bush is. having george w. bush on the trail, it shows some of the things that are hurting jeb the most, pemeaning the surname bus and the drag that still has on a lot of voters who want to get away from the establishment, but also highlighting, particularly when he shows up, highlighting how much of a better politician he is. i'm not sure at this point, even though as hogan says,
republicans in south carolina told me as well that george w. bush is popular. i'm not sure he can help him. >> i want to get you both in on this. jeb is a different man than his brother. let's look at what the "washington post" wrote down, really great diagram really shows the majority. 19 of jeb bush's foreign policy advisers worked on the administrations of his dad or brother. more notable names on his brother's administration, michael hayden, tom ridge, michael chertoff, and stephen hadley. david, let me start with you. would it be wrong for voters to believe that voting for jeb bush is basically a third presidency of george w. bush? he's surrounding himself with many of the influencers that w. had. >> it's an impossible situation for jeb bush to answer because he can't repudiate his brother and can't accept his brother. and what also has become clear is that just all in all, jeb bush thinks about his family overwhelmingly much. this way he really is different from george w. bush. when jeb bush was on the stage with donald trump on saturday, and he said he's attacking my family, he's attacking my
mother. i can understand that that's how jeb bush feels. but it's not what he should say. because he's not there auditioning -- we're not his relatives. we're his potential employers. we want to know what is he going to do for us? how much does he care for us? >> what does it mean, though, when he surrounds himself with the influencers that we have been down this path before, and we know that they have influenced a president for mistakes? >> any republican nominee will draw on staff from those recent two-term republican administrations. just as any democratic nominee would do the same. if this were marco rubio or ted cruz who were the nominee and those names and others appeared, you would think, they have the resumes. who are you going to talk to except the last cia director? >> they don't have the baggage of the last name bush. >> exactly. >> aren't there -- and as david points out, there aren't that many white houses you can tap
into for these influential republican minds, whether it's domestic or foreign policy. but in this time period over the last eight years, hasn't a crop been developed some new names that could we surrounded around a jeb bush that he could point to and say, it's not all the same old folks. this person, this person, and this person is new. >> not really because we just had eight years of barack obama. before that, george w. of course, he's going to pull from the last administration that would have some knowledge of foreign policy. especially if we're talking about some of the senators who have accomplished nothing and done nothing. they're going to have to bring more people who have been through this before. the double-edged sword of that, of course, is some of the things and decisions those folks made george w. bush make were very unpopular. it's the same when you bring george w. to down and realize what a better politician is. the same with bill and hillary. he's warm, charismatic, affable, strong. she's not. you have to bring them in to
give you notoriety, but the same thing that is perfect about jeb bush is the same thing that hurts him, that's his last name. >> david, let me ask you, what is a domestic policy distinction that is something for jeb bush to highlight from that of his brother? and any failure of his brother's presidential record? >> on the domestic side. the problem is what republicans want and what they should want are often different things. the most correct and courageous thing george bush did in domestic policy is the thing that was least popular. his actions in the fall of 2008. when he led t.a.r.p., when he started the auto bailout and saved the -- prevented the financial crisis from turning into a global great depression. those actions between september and january of 2008 and 2009 are one of the things the tea party stands for, rejecting those actions. they were correct, but they weren't perfectly -- they led to
a lot of inequities and they're very controversial. >> joy, as we forecast down the line and we use south carolina and its open republican primary contest this weekend, maybe as a guide for this, is south carolina and its voters really going to demonstrate whether or not george w. bush is a net positive for jeb, whether it comes to foreign policy or domestic, if he were to go in a general matchup say against a bernie sanders who voted against the iraq war? >> i think this is the one state where you can test that other than florida. yes, because this is the state where george w. bush vanquished john mccain. the story of that has to include the fact he used a native intolerance to vanquish john mccain. the stories that circulated that the george w. bush campaign say they didn't launch but they were launched accusing john mccain of having this illegitimate black child, insinuations about his mental health, they used trickery, but he did win, and he
does still remain more popularity there than in other states. there are other southern primaries coming up, but jeb bush won't get to the primaries if he doesn't finish in the top three in south carolina. it's going to be difficult to make it to the last stand in florida, which is what i think the bush campaign is counting on being able to do on march 15th. >> joy reid, thank you very much. david from and hogan, thank you for joining me. coming up, as we mentioned, donald trump is boasting a commanding lead after ratcheting up the rhetoric against his rivals, even threatening to sue senator ted cruz. up next, new reaction from the senator himself. plus, developing now, jeb bush about to hold that town hall not too far away from here at a gun manufacturer in columbia, south carolina. we're going to monitor that event and bring you updates. one thing to draw out, no glasses, day two. hogan, you notice that? >> you don't have them either. >> today is a contacts day for me. back with much more here in columbia after this. vo: know you have a dedicated
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we're getting somef our first images in now from jeb bush on the campaign trail. he has veered over to columbia after last night's big rally in charleston, where he appeared with his brother, george w. bush. roughly about 1,000 people turned out last night. touring a gun manufacturer here in columbia, not too far away from where we are here at the liberty tap room. but jeb bush not the only one out there working hard today. all the republican candidates are out in force already this morning. we see where jeb bush is. ted cruz and marco rubio in south carolina. john kasich is going to be heading there after holding a town hall in michigan. so he'll veer back. in a few hours, we have donald trump holding his first event of the day in south carolina.
all of this ahead of the state's first in the south gop primary on saturday. so we're going to check in with our correspondents covering the republican candidates and beginning with kerry sanders who is covering the donald trump campaign. kerry joins us by phone. explain what's going on. the threats from trump about ted cruz and also the possibility of him challenging the rnc and throwing out the issue of this third-party run again. >> well, let's take a look first at the threats against ted cruz. he's threatening to sue ted cruz because he says cruz is lying in his advertisements. he referred yesterday to ted cruz at one point as a basket case, saying that these lies may lead him to sue because as you have heard donald trump say before, he believes that it's possible that ted cruz is not even eligible to run for president because he was born in canada. now, donald trump has been pushing that for a while. but he's raised the rhetoric,
and we expect probably this afternoon we will hear some more on that when donald trump holds a rally in north augusta. this is what donald trump had to say yesterday when he was referring to ted cruz. >> okay, i'm not sure we have that. i'll tell you a little bit about what he had to say. he said i think ted cruz is a very unstable guy. i have never met a person who lies more than ted cruz. he went on to say about the demands for an apology. but at the end of the day, he's raised the rhetoric against ted cruz, and there's an ad right now that ted cruz is running which is an -- not the cruz campaign, it's a pac that is running an ad endorsing ted cruz.
and it's telling voters in south carolina that if they vote for anybody else in this race, it will be a vote for donald trump. so telling the voters of south carolina that if they choose to vote for marco rubio or if they choose to vote for jeb bush, essentially they're reading it as a vote for donald trump. so they're trying to inspire their voters. now, your other question was along the lines of what it is that -- what it is that donald trump is trying to do to jeb bush. was that your question? >> well, the independent issue and how the fact he feels treated unfairly by the rnc. >> yeah, okay, so what he did was at that debate on saturday, he got cat called out several times. and after the debate, he started saying that the audience was
stacked. that the rnc, the republican national committee, had doled out tickets to supporters, primarily, according to donald trump, supporters who are part of lobbyists and that he's not taking money from anybody else. it was just his wife and kids in the audience. so it was sort of a stacked deck against him. at the end of the day, the rnc is saying, look, they only gave ten tickets out that wound up going to lobbyists, and if he's going to take on george bush and the audience is going to catcall him out, that's the reaction of the audience. >> trump kept calling them the donor class, those booing against him. kerry sanders following the trump campaign. thank you, sir. i want to go to our colleague, hallie jackson, covering ted cruz's campaign. she joins us live from washington right now. what is cruz's reaction to donald trump? >> pretty simple, essentially. he believes donald trump is in his words losing it. this is something we have heard from ted cruz again and again as
trump has ratcheted up his rhetoric against cruz. cruz saying, hey, donald trump is rattled. he's sinking in the polls. that's why you're hearing the insults. cruz turning around and slamming trump right back. not on personality but as he likes to talk about, policy. his campaign believes the most effective line of attack against trump is to try to paint him as simply too liberal for south carolina voters, thomas. i want to play you a little bit of what ted cruz had to say about trump just yesterday. listen. >> donald trump held a press conference where he apparently lost it. i mean, he was just going on and on about how i'm the most horrible person in the world. because i keep repeating the things he says. you noticed how rattled donald gets when his numbers start going down? >> so there you have it. a little bit of how ted cruz responds to donald trump. i have to point out, as you
know, tom, these two guys up until a month ago had been buddy, buddy, friends. pals. i asked donald trump about this on saturday night after the debate. you used to like ted cruz. he said, yeah, i used to like him before i got to know him. cruz will still say he likes donald trump on a personality basis. when you hear the rhetoric, the language they're using, this is obviously sort of a crescendo in the level of -- i don't want to say hatred because it's not personal, but it's vitriolic at this point. the two of them whacking at each other because both of them know they're one and two potentially in south carolina. each wanting to take out the other. >> yeah, well, cruz pretty much embraced donald trump all throughout the beginning. >> for months. >> of the primary season, and now it might be coming back to bite him because that embrace might have only helped grow donald trump in the conservative hearts and minds. hallie jackson following the cruz camp. thank you. appreciate it. dwipi developing right now,
hillary clinton wrapping up a meeting with african-american and civil rights meeting including the reverend al sharpton. she's going to deliver a major speech on race in harlem today. the impact on the race just four days before the democratic caucuses in nevada. also developing, senator bernie sanders just wrapping up a prayer breakfast with religious leaders right here in columbia. later, he's going to hold a town hall at the university of south carolina, which is just down a block from me. keep it locked here. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. check this out, bro. what's that, broheim? i switched to geico and got more. more savings on car insurance? yeah bro-fessor, and more. like renters insurance. more ways to save. nice, bro-tato chip. that's not all, bro-tein shake. geico has motorcycle and rv insurance, too. oh, that's a lot more. oh yeah, i'm all about more, teddy brosevelt. geico. expect great savings and a whole lot more.
befoburning, the pins-and-needles of diabetic nerve pain, these feet were the first in my family to graduate from college, raised active twin girls, and trained as a nurse. but i couldn't bear my diabetic nerve pain any longer. so i talked to my doctor and he prescribed lyrica. nerve damage from diabetes causes diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is fda approved to treat this pain. lyrica may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these,
new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling or blurry vision. common side effects are dizziness, sleepiness, weight gain and swelling of hands, legs, and feet. don't drink alcohol while taking lyrica. don't drive or use machinery until you know how lica affects you. those who have had a drug or alcohol problem may be more likely to misuse lyrica. now i have less diabetic nerve pain. and i love helping little ones get off on the right foot. ask your doctor about lyrica. welcome back to our coverage here in columbia, south carolina. i'm thomas roberts. we're checking in on the hillary clinton campaign who is back in new york this morning reaching out to civil rights leaders in the african-american community. in the past hour, we had secretary clinton meeting with members of the ncacp nakz action network and the national urban league, and in hours, secretary
clintb is scheduled to give a speech on race in harlem. trymaine lee joins me live on the phone in new york. he's covering this event today. talk about this morning's meeting and any expected endorsements that might come out of this for secretary clinton. >> tell you what, you mentioned the influential leaders gathered here to meet with hillary clinton. they wanted to talk to her about their 21st century agenda for jobs and freedom, to address issues like voting rights and urban poverty. one thing that is key here, and that the leaders want to know from hillary clinton is that she can speak beyond criminal justice reform, the hot topic in the black community today. let's take a listen to what she said in terms of the broad range of issues she plans on tackling. >> i'm not a single-issue candidates. we don't live in a single-issue country, and we have work to do. that work can only be done in partnership with one another. to advance the cause of civil and human rights, and to, as you
said, live up to the ideals of our country, which is exactly what our goal must be. >> now, they're still in that meeting now. they should come out soon. there are two press conferences planned, one with marc morial, another with al sharpton. moments before the meeting, i spoke with cornell brooks, the head of the naacp, i asked what do uhope to take away from the meeting? enlightenment and assurance. i'm not sure if he got that from what clinton plans to do to address this wide spectrum of concerns he had, especially as it relates to the black community, but again, the kind of gathering of influential leaders seems to be key in secretary clinton's push to heal any breaches in her firewall of black support. >> we expect to hear reaction from the reverend al coming up here shortly, later this morning or early afternoon. trymaine lee following the
clinton camp there. thank you very much. back here in south carolina, bernie sanders is also reaching out to the african-american voting block, kicking off a town hall at the university of south carolina in columbia. but before that, he attended a prayer breakfast just a short time ago, that included former naacp president ben jealous who has endorsed bernie sanders. >> without vision, the people will perish. i don't claim to be a biblical scholar. but i know how important that is. throughout history, people have shown incredible courage in saying we're not going to accept the status quo. i know everybody says we can't bring about change, right? but we're not going to accept it. >> so for more on this, let's bring in msnbc political correspondent kasie hunt who is following the sanders campaign. what are we expecting at this town hall? it's getting under way shortly.
describe who has shown up for bernie sanders. >> hey, thomas. this is a relatively small event by staanders standard. an event for university of south carolina students in a small auditorium. they'll get a chance to ask senator sanders some questions. he doesn't often do q & a events. sometimes. he's very into affecting the crowd about themselves, which is an interesting way of going about it, that seems to be rare among many of the politicians i have covered. he'll ask for a show of hands, for example, and for people to call out how much student debt they have and he'll pick people out of the crowd to tell their stories. we'll watch for that a little bit today. as you pointed out, this is really in the broad sense all about figuring out how to appeal more, particularly to african-american voters, who of course make up a majority of the primary electorate here in south carolina. and this is of course a place where bernie sanders and his campaign feel they have some work to do and where the clinton campaign is pretty confident that they're going to be able to do well.
i think the question heading in here is actually what's going to happen in nevada, which is of course coming up on saturday for the democrats. ahead of next saturday's, the following saturday's south carolina primary. i think for sanders, they're focusing on nevada because they see it as a tight race. it could put the clintons in a difficult position only because that puts her through the first run of states here without a very clear victory. and we have seen that voters are more willing to consider sanders as somebody they view as electable as he seems to be racking up more wins. so secretary clinton, of course, spending day in new york, trying to pitch herself to african-american voters across the country. the sanders campaign knowing they have to make inroads and doing a little work on that here on the ground, thomas. >> kasie hunt, following the sanders camp. thanks very much. we'll talk again shortly. coming up, president obama will hold a news conference this afternoon, and he could discuss the possibility of a successor to justice antonin scalia.
coming up, how the sudden supreme court vacancy could impact senate races in nine battleground states. much hoar on that right here on msnbc. you've finally earned enough reward miles on your airline credit card. now you just book a seat, right? not quite. sometimes those seats are out of reach, costing an outrageous number of miles. it's time to switch... to the capital one venture card. with venture, you'll earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. and when you're ready to travel, just book the flight you want, on any airline and use your miles to cover the cost. now that's more like it. what's in your wallet? i've been blind since birth. i go through periods where it's hard to sleep at night, and stay awake during the day. learn about non-24 by calling 844-844-2424. or visit my24info.com. theand the kids always eat sky their vegetables.e.
the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. ensure. take life in! all right, so look at this. we're watching two different events. one that is happening and one that's about to happen on the left-hand side of the screen that just went into color bars. we're going to have bernie sande sanders, but we do have jeb bush speaking live at an event here in columbia, south carolina. he's at a gun manufacturer not far from our location here. bernie sanders is holding this town hall at the university of south carolina, with students there, and that is just a stone's throw from our location here at the liberty tap room. so we have the battle over replacing supreme court justice antonin scalia. not only playing out in presidential politics, it's playing a role in the fight to control the senate. several swing state republicans are up for re-election this year, and now, more of them are demanding any nomination be
delayed and left to president obama's successor. rob portman of ohio and pat toomey of pennsylvania yesterday joined kelly ayotte and rob johnson in calling for it delay. joining me now, chris kofinis and susan del percio. susan, republicans spent a lot of time touting they have washington working again. and now that they have full control of congress. but won't it be very hypocritical to block any type of supreme court nominee process and just make people that are in those seats vulnerable? those vulnerable republicans to the process of re-election? >> well, it doesn't make sense to do it right now. right now, the republicans in the senate are playing checkers instead of chess. what they should have done is let the president make his nomination. he's entitled, in fact, he is -- it's his responsibility to put forth a nominee. the republicans in the judicial
committee will have plenty of time to see who it is and vet it. then give the ammunition if you will to those senators who want to be opposed to it. i am not sure what their gam plan was to come out within hours of finding about scalia's death and going on the offensive when their cards wouldn't have changed 48 hours or even a week later. so it doesn't quite make sense. and you see in the primaries that you're talking about in the vulnerable states, you see about half of the republicans are saying nothing. we'll wait and see, and then make a decision. and some are in fact coming out with the senate majority. >> and of course, we know politics is going to play into this. it just seems especially disrespectful given the service that justice scalia gave to the courts to move this fast into the politics of it all and what it means. while on the left we have democrats in the potential of taking back the senate with five
seats, four if they keep the presidency. how does this fight over the nomination give democrats a real opportunity to get those seats? >> well, you know, i actually agree with a lot of what susan said. what i cannot understand is justice scalia dies and within almost minutes, you have mitch mcconnell and others saying there's not going to be a vote. we're not going to put -- allow any vote to happen. it re-enforces the narrative that the american people have that congress is completely and utterly dysfunctional and it has put that square bullet target on the republicans and it just doesn't make political sense. there was a process constitutionally and congressionally to have gone through with the republicans wanted to play their political games, they could have, but at least would have had some kind of cover. what it does now is every one of those republicans in those swing states, pennsylvania, wisconsin, ohio, new hampshire. it is now going to force them to explain to the american people
why they will not let the president's choice, because the president is going to make a choice here. the notion that he's not going to, i think, is fant ace. they're not going to allow this individual who is probably incredibly qualified, not even have a hearing? not even have a vote? i don't know how this plays politically for them. but in my opinion, it plays pretty bad. >> susan, as we talk about the politics of chess in all of this. i mean, president obama could send up a nominee that he really doesn't want to see confirmed but really checks off a lot of different boxes that could anger an electorate. and show the dysfunction in washington, d.c. >> it's time to see if the president is going to play politics with this nomination or if he's going to be sincere about it. and he does have an interesting choice to be made. let's face it, the chances of this nominee getting through are almost zero. so whose career is he going to
ruin by putting them forward for this nomination? because that's what it's going to come down to. now, at the same time, you see others who are going to come out now and say anyone he puts out is wrong. well, that's also boxing themselves into a position that's not necessarily good for the republicans. >> is it better just to stay quiet? >> yes, sometimes it is better. >> and not go out on this? >> at least for the time being. i don't understand why the republicans didn't wait to see who president obama nominated. then they could go through the vetting process, they can say all the things they disagree with that nominee about, because unless it is such a centrist nominee, there is no way that the republicans are going to approve of everything in that nominee's record. then at least they could have ammunition to say why they're against it instead of just for political reasons. kelly ayotte is a perfect example. she should be taking note of what happened in new hampshire with donald trump. he's running against the
establishment, and here she is running into it. i think she would have been much better off taking the position of susan collins in maine saying let the president put forth his nominee. and then i'll review it. >> right, we have to see how all of this plays out. before everybody gives their opinion. go real fast, chris. >> to me, what the real story is, it tells you how paralyzed the republican party is to the fringes and wings of the party. i mean, this is more about that than it is any constitutional process. they are terrified of the trump wing and the cruz wing tearing apart any process they go through. it really tells you and speaks to what depths the republican party has fallen in this election. >> chris kofinis, susan del percio, great to see both of you. >> thank you. >> all right, so coming up, i'm going to talk live with south carolina state congressman terry alexander who supported hillary clinton in 2008 but is now supporting bernie sanders. what changed between now and then? and up next, why the lawmaker is
converting some folks around him to vote for bernie sanders. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in utica, where a new kind of workforce is being trained. and in albany, the nanotechnology capital of the world. let us help grow your company's tomorrow, today at business.ny.gov her long d as aoanne. hair stylist starts with shoulder pain when... hey joanne, want to trade the all day relief of 2 aleve with 6 tylenol? give up my 2 aleve for 6 tylenol? no thanks. for me... it's aleve.
welcome back, everybody. want to pass along this programming note, president obama will be holding a news conference today at 4:30. he's in california. this will be the first time that journalists will be able to ask the president where his mind is, what his thoughts are about nominating someone to the supreme court after the untimely death of justice antonin scalia. that's today at 4:30. the supreme court will be answering those questions among many others that the president will be answering today. right now, though, back here in south carolina, we have bernie sanders expected any moment to begin that town hall at the university of south carolina. and he's seeking to court the very important african-american vote here. he spoke at a prayer breakfast in the past hour at allen university that is a
predominantly black college, also located in columbia. it comes with the latest polls showing hillary clinton maintains a double digit lead in south carolina ahead of the primary a week from saturday. joining me now is senator sanders' supporter, south carolina state representative terry alexander. thanks for being here. appreciate your time. you supported hillary clinton back in 2008. so why the switch to bernie sanders? why not throw your support behind secretary clinton? >> well, you're absolutely right. and thank you for having me here this morning. i did support secretary clinton the last time around. but listening to bernie when i met him at the southern leadership conference and heard what he's having to say and i started researching him and doing some work on him. i said this is a nice guy. he's very compassionate about what he's talking about and he has the passion. and that drew me to him, basically. >> a nice guy, does he have the
record of getting things down when it comes to the policies he's trying to sell to become president? especially when it comes to higher education, free public college tuition, which is something of interest. is it feasible? >> you know, they said that about the affordable health care act. you know, they said that about having funds for the iran and nuclear deal. i think this country being the greatest country in the world, if we really want to do something, we can get it done. and i believe that senator sanders can get it done once he gets there. >> all right, so we have 60% of south carolina voters being african-american. polls show hillary clinton could get as much as 80% of that vote. is there truly a way, though, are people eager to hear a new message from a democrat like a senator sanders? >> i think it is. it's a revolutionary force we're leading to. another thing that attracted me to senator sanders is that he's speaking about making a
difference, changing how we do business here in this country. and that is always good for this country. when we do things a little differently. >> when we look at how he's trying to win over voters to wi certainly trying to go after the youth vote and generationally, a lot of folks #feelthebern for sanders but has a strength here as opposed to a win here. >> i think he has a chance to demonstrate both of the strength and a win. we are closing the gap. when i joined senator sanders -- >> you don't think it will be an uphill battle for him to take on secretary clinton in south carolina? >> i don't think so. he was like 9% and now he's closed the gap. almost like a margin. >> in the margin, we've got this new reuters exit poll show that
he leads and young african-americans, it shrinks. 40% clinton and 33% for sanders. so it's back to the generational thing. >> the way we operate and the way we've been handling business in the country hasn't been good for us. and the clintons basically from the old school. and think about it, 20 years ago when bill was in the white house, two or three four years old. so they didn't have a clue who bill or hillary clinton is and talk about changing, talk about restructuring how we do business and it's exciting to them. >> thank you, appreciate it. coming up, the 2008 race.
who will they vote for in the primaries? coming up next, i'll talk with the emmy winning journalist coming to the state of south carolina for more than 20 years and about this emerging generational divide among african-american women. that and much more when we return. to folks out there whose diabetic nerve pain...
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it's the community as we break it down between bernie sanders and hillary clinton. who is most likely to vote for who? >> i tell you what, people have assumed that women would just automatically line up behind hillary clinton, but that's not what i'm hearing. it's the street committee. the folks at the hair salon and the grocery store. they're divided, thomas, is what i'm seeing. some like hillary clinton but they really feel like she stands for the establishment and look for something new. they're not convinced she dop y , deeply cares. it's depending on election day. >> the article that caught my eye saying african-americans have a shaky history with the clintons and likely to look outside of the democratic party, they're willing to shop around within it. that gives sanders an opening. so south carolina's always the clinton firewall, but is there really a chance he could win here or just a chance to
demonstrate a strength here? >> it's probably more likely to demonstrate a strength. but keep in mind that when we talk about the delegates here, it's proportionally awarded. for sanders to have a showing at all would be tremendous for him. i don't think he will close the gap, but certainly don't think he has an opportunity. >> split the delegates and because of the open primary here, that means that they can go vote, the democrats can go vote for donald trump if they want to coming up this weekend. >> absolutely. and i had a lady who, i'll say is an elderly and then in it. very plugged in politically and told me she's a lifelong democrat, voting for donald trump. because her intent is to upset the republican primary. how that will play out, we'll see on saturday. >> he's upset as a disruptor candidate. thank you. that's going to do it for me right now. thank you for your time.
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republican brawl four days before the south carolina primary. donald trump threatens to take ted cruz to court. >> i think ted's a very unstable guy. i have never ever met a person that lies more than ted cruz. he doesn't even have the right to serve as president or even run as president. he was born in canada. so i will bring that lawsuit if he doesn't apologize. >> we are not in grade school to say, liar, liar, pants on fire and not speak about the subject. this is the most rattled i've seen donald. >> jeb bush to his critics. >> i want to remind you what our good dad told me one time. labels are for soup cans.
and in my experience, the strongest person usually the loude loudest in the room. >> and a memorable campaign sound bite. >> we've trained this dog. and the dog, if it's not true, he's going to bark. i try to see how we do that with the republicans. oh, a great recession caused by too much regulation. [ barking ] you know? trump versus cruz. cruz versus trump. and then versus bush. a confident tone this morning. >> wow, this is exciting.
the whole place is exciting in south carolina. let's go. >> joining me, peter alexander in columbia, south carolina, and jeb bush speaking at this hour and then in north augusta, a rally this afternoon. peter, first to you, this race is, i mean, i've never seen anything quite like the republicans in south carolina. starting, of course, with saturday night's debate and getting better, or worse. >> reporter: i think you're right. they just up on the end, he wraps up his remarks inside the gun manufacturing plant in columbia, south carolina. unlike anything we've seen before, but south carolina has a history of sort of bare knuckle politics during the course of that debate and then we've seen over the last 72 hours with donald trump, unleashing a new round of attacks against the bush brothers but this state also has a history of success in terms of its choices. all but once as we've reported
before since 1980 did the republican voters pick someone who ended up not being the primary winner that was newt gingrich, who won the primary here and then didn't win the nomination going forward. jeb bush recognizes the urgency where big brother had great success and his father won his primaries as well. george w. bush is highly favorable. his rating is roughly 84% in this state, but jeb bush is still roughly 10% in the latest polls. maybe in the teens in this area as well and recognize the need to perform here. it's the reason that george w. bush met privately with nikki hailey, the popular governor and jeb bush met at least four times we're told over the last year including a dinner. that endorsement is critical but not even focused on a win in this state. although they won't say it, on a third place finish. they want to prove they are the best anti-trump or anti-cruz
candidate going forward. >> there's an issue with nikki hailey because she took real offense in a release at the way trump was going after the guan taunamo detainees. >> reporter: that's exactly right. nikki haley, not the first time she spoke out about donald trump. but while nikki haley is speaking out by yuusing his nam what was as striking was without mentioning the republican front-runner, take a look at some of his remarks. >> since i left the white house, i've been kind of quiet in the public square. eight years in the limelight was plenty. i came here for two reasons. one, because i care deeply about jeb. and two, because i care deeply about our country.
presidency is a serious job. that requires sound judgment. and good ideas. strength is not empty rhetoric. it is not bluster. it is not the entrance. in my experience, the strongest person usually isn't the loudest one in the room. >> reporter: so the question is, can jeb bush translate george bush's popularity? we'll find out saturday and then striking how many people we had in the room and they're uncomfortable with another bush in the white house. >> interesting. very interesting. peter, thank you so much. and kerry sanders, also, in south carolina. kerry, what are you hearing from the people you meet out there? >> reporter: i'm in north augusta at the riverview park activity center where later today and two hours, donald trump is going to meet with some voters, supporters. you can see there's a long line here and as you know, donald
trump has turned the volume up on jeb bush, specifically, talking about his brother, george w. so i've got four voters here. two of them holding signs. i trust all of you are trump supporters. he's got three signs. so the quote is, and this is from donald trump, i've heard for years, that george bush has kept the country safe after 9/11. what about during 9/11? the worst attack ever in the country, how do you feel about donald trump taking on george w. bush? >> i respect what president bush did after 9/11. i think new york city responded in a magnificent way. >> is it dirty politics to call out george w. bush? >> maybe not dirty politics, maybe just speaking a little soon, speaking a little bit quick. >> unfair? >> maybe not unfair, but he's thinking about the whole picture. >> what do you think, sir? >> well, i think that we've had
bushes in politics for a very -- >> specifically, i'm asking about this, the question is, does this influence your support for donald trump the way he talks about george w. bush? >> i am there for donald trump because i feel like from an economic standpoint, he's the man. he's in it for the right reason and knows how to create jobs. he had to give up a lot to become a candidate for the presidency, and i trust him. and one thing i definitely feel is he will surround himself with good people to help make the right decisions, and i feel like whatever the decision is going to be made, he will make it up on the advice of good people, including his generals. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. we're running out of time. gentlemen, thank you for joining us. and there, you hear a bit of the reaction, supporters of george w. bush, but it doesn't
influence their votes towards support for donald trump. >> kerry, that is fascinating. the national security issue is trumped if you will by the economic issue and think of him as the businessman and the job creator. interesting stuff. kerry sanders, thank you. >> thanks very much, kerry, and thanks peter alexander. donald trump's roller coaster relationship with the republican national committee hit another low with donald trump saying the republican national committee is in default for how it doled out debate tickets to a crowd that wasn't trump friendly. >> i have to say, as a businessman, i get along with everybody. i have business all over the world. >> okay. >> he said there were weapon of mass destruction, there were none and knew there were none. there was no weapon of mass destruction -- >> okay. >> the world trade center came down on your brother's reign.
>> michael, msnbc political analyst and the former chairman of the republican national committee and joins me now from the hill. michael, the audience at the debate booing donald trump when he went after jeb bush is not at all the same as the audience the people in line there, that gentlemen that kerry sanders just talking to, donald trump through and through, no matter what he says about the bushes. >> reporter: there is stark differences between the two. there was a bit of a stacked audience against donald trump. that goes to the heart of his argument about how the audience was chosen, the number of tickets doled out. his campaign apparently didn't have as many or enough. but again, that's all part of the theater of donald trump. it's so it moves the the narrative down further and gets an opportunity to revisit the sort of tenuous relationship with the summer, the fall, the whole threat of starting a third party effort and the big
negotiation and the signing of the pledge. as you know, having studied donald trump, watched him and covered him, this is all part of the deal. this is all part of the art of the deal. every deal is a negotiation and every negotiation is renegotiable. he pults these terms in play an both party and political figures not noeg whknowing what to do. the rnc was quiet about donald trump on the tickets except for, you know, we just give out the tickets and that's it. but donald trump makes it a news event. he makes it much more than it probably is because it goes to the people supporting him. this is a guy who's going to fight. he's going to fight on every point. he's not going to see any ground on any issue and that matters to a lot of his voters. >> what is your take at least in the initial polling after that saturday night debate where some people thought he had crossed a line in the way he went after
the bushes, there's no listening of his support, at least among the general public, among the republican primary voters. >> isn't that amazing? i thought that feels the bridge too far. particularly in south carolina, given the importance that the bushes have played to the folks there and their affinity for the family and bush, this is sort of cutting your wrist here. no, not at all. and in fact, we've seen in the polls today, his numbers held steady or gone up. there is something else going on here nothing to do with ideology and nothing to do with prior relationships. it has everything to do with how donald trump is is making the case to a segment of the gop voting base that says, follow me. i'm going to fight for you. this way forward. and they're there. they're with him all the way. and as long as you have, you know, the other four or five
people in this race sort of come together, that's going to bode well for him, particularly as you get beyond south carolina, andrea, and go into super tuesday. wow. he's beginning to lock this thing down. and i think a lot of folks in washington are going to be nervous if they aren't already about it. >> i think they are a little bit nervous already. let me ask you about the supreme court and the play that mitch mcconnell made and within two hours of the announcement, of antonin scalia's death, mitch mcconnell by chuck grassley, we're not going to confirm anybody no matter who he apoi s appoints, can't do it in the last year. moderate and consensus candidates unanimously confirmed by republicans in the last two years. and no-go by the republicans. doesn't this blow up the senate for the foreseeable future? >> it does. and i hate to say it, but i think it was true. i think this was a political misstep. that was not the first thing you
say within hours of the passing of someone like justice scalia, anyone for that matter, but certainly someone of his stature within the party to just, you know, get right into the politics of it. to throw down the gauntlet before the president. the thing to keep in mind, the process doesn't begin until the president nominates someone. the senate can sit back and see what moves the president is going to make and then respond accordingly and then say, thank you, mr. president, we'll execute or addtize consent responsibilities on the institution. you don't have to telegraph your moves but more to do with mitch mcconnell doing a preemption on his base rather than senate republicans in this regard and he wanted to let them know and assure them up front that we're going to hold the ground here. i think, as a political calculation, it may come back to bite because you've got a lot of blue state senators about five or six of them going to run some
tight races and now you've given the democrats a real one to beat them over the heads with. it's going to be a tight squeeze for the republicans, i think, on this issue. barack obama will find the upper hand because the person he no, ma'am nal ma'am, nominates is going to be a consensus candidate and interesting to see how it holds up. >> thank you so much, michael steele. good to see you. nbc news learned details about the plans to honor antonin scalia. no formal announcement by the court but justice scalia's body will lie in repose on friday in the great hall of the supreme court building. this is an honor that was last given to chief justice william rei reignkwis in 2005. one of the places where pope francis set mass during the visit to washington, which of course, justice scalia attended. tomorrow night, mika brazinski
with a special town hall with donald trump right here on fa msnbc. bernie sanders and the tea party. unlikely mix. that's up next on msnbc. ♪ (cell phone rings) where are you? well the squirrels are back in the attic. mom? your dad won't call an exterminator... can i call you back, mom? he says it's personal this time... if you're a mom, you call at the worst time. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. where are you? it's very loud there. are you taking a zumba class?
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sanders campaign. candidate and his supporters to the tea party on the right. tad devine is a senior advisor and joins me now. back off the trail and good to see you. >> andrea, thank you. >> what about the analogy between the tea party and bernie sanders' proposals? >> i think that's unfortunate. bernie sanders supporters are about as far as they can get in american politics and i hope, not just the president but the clinton campaign, they need to bring the party together, particularly, the new people that bernie is bringing into the process. i hope they can avoid analogies like that. >> you're being restrained, but what? >> i think it's a poor choice of words that attacking our supporters that way is going to hurt the democratic party and i think it's a shortsighted strategy. >> is this something you've seen an escalation coming from the clinton team? >> listen, the last week in new
hampshire, we heard a lot of different attacks levelled. president clinton, hillary clinton and supporters. i'm sure it will continue. i understand it's a competitive primary process right now. and then on to south carolina and elsewhere. bernie will stick to his message and we think it's the best way to success with voters. >> polling all over the place and none is quite reliable, as far as we can tell. >> i think it's a close race in nevada. the clinton campaign did a conference call, saying they were ahead and more, i think, before that. we've closed that gap, i think, the momentum is with us. i think she still has an advantage and i think it's going to be a close race on saturday. >> and is this a turnout race? turnout has to be evenly distributed. >> and we're working hard. we have a lot of people on the ground, moved a lot of people from iowa to nevada. we've got a great crew there. we've got a wonderful
organization that we've built over the course of many months. we started our television campaign there on the 23rd of december. >> you're outspending them. >> we are. >> and the resources have given us the opportunity to overcome a lot of advantage they have in terms of support from the political establishment. we're working hard to win. >> what is the difference this year? it's not just the candidate and the message, but how is technology changed your ability to build support, get online, and messaging out, and of course, raise money? >> andrea, i think that's one of the secret stories of this campaign. right now, what our campaign has done online and in that effort, it's led by a lot of people from the campaign, unbelievable. you know, in 2008 when barack obama ran that incredible campaign that no one had a smartpho smartphone, couldn't just take out the phone and give someone money. it was a different form of technology. >> he had an online message. >> he did and it's different now. it's so immediate. people can do so much. they used to contributing and
buying things online right now. we've established this network of people and give them the ability to support our campaign and i think that's the heart of our success. >> you can keep going back to them repeatedly with small donations, whereas hillary clinton has the big donor. she has to physically be present and many of them have maxed out. >> she's doing a black stone group. one of the biggest wall street firms. they have to spend their time doing that. bernie sanders, when he gave his acceptance speech said i'm holding a fundraiser right now. 51,000 people went to the web site and contributed money. we raised $2 million in a matter of minutes. we raised $8 million over the course of 48 hours in and around the new hampshire primary. that's the difference, this technology is making, and the support we get from people across the country. >> what about the criticism though that people have made and i've interviewed for responsible federal budget who say that the proposals don't add up. that's one of the points she's
been trying to make. >> sure. i would say 170 leading economists, like bob reich and others said bernie's plans in terms of health care, the budget, and had plenty of resources. >> you don't think there's a big hole? >> it's a responsible plan forward. i think it would be better if hillary clinton, and sanders never said president obama this week. and he criticized one of his deals with the congress as being weak and when you take what he said and attack and distort that way, i just think those attacks are falling short. >> no matter who wins this, are they going to be able to --
>> and then the democratic nominee, someone like ralph nader outside of the process and i think wants to work within it. >> tad devine, thank you very much. and coming up, and then all hell broke loose. richard eng el's compelling account of 20 years in combat zone. welcome to opportunity's knocking, where self-proclaimed financial superstars pitch you investment opportunities. i've got a fantastic deal for you- gold! with the right pool of investors, there's a lot of money to be made. but first, investors must ask the right questions and use the smartcheck challenge to make the right decisions. you're not even registered; i'm done with you! i can...i can... savvy investors check their financial pro's background by visiting smartcheck.gov this just got interesting. why pause to take a pill?
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places in the world most people just won't go. that's where we can always find nbc's richard engel to gaza, to syria, our chief foreign correspondent covered the world's most dangerous hot spots, dodging bullets and bombs and more than 20 years, shined a light on and helped decode some of the most compact developments dominating headlines. in his new book, "and then all hell broke loose." he was recording on the front lines and his harrowing kidnapping in syria. he's recounted it all in vivid detail. joins me now. >> great to be here. >> just going through the book brought back, i had sort of nightmares revisiting your experiences which i've only seen on television and by knowing -- >> 20 years seems to have flown by. >> we have all worried about you
so much. >> thank you for that. >> but this brings it all together. this is your broader frame of how the middle east came unglued and goes back to the break of the ottoman empire and broken by colonial powers and then the impact on the strong men, the big men and interventions. >> we have the middle east, cobbled together after world war i. and then the status quo. the basic theory of the book, the status quo then, qaddafi, that up ended. we had a great responsibility and a lot to answer for destroying the old status quo through the actions of both administrations, the bush and the obama administration. and all the things that have been pent up and the antecedental problems unleashed
and living with the consequences. the u.s. didn't create the sunni conflict and didn't create the arab kurd or the much, much older conflicts, but we did have a responsibility in unleashing some of them. >> and then military-led leaders, egypt starting the way. and then it's a terrible choice and then people in the region are going to say, well, there was isis or there was a straw man. one would hope to encourage, and then and then the chaos.
and then the junkie and then get some sort of a false high from going into dangerous places. and then i at least have enough either common sense or fear, being gutless. i back out. >> you know me, i'm not an adrenaline junkie. i wear my seat belt. i don't sky dive. >> it was after the kidnapping and then i think if i understand what i want to do with my life and i've decided this is what i want to do with my life. >> you're a great story teller. >> thank you. and i like being a witness to things. i like being there as complex political events unfold. i really do. and i've decided that's what i want to do with my life. and there's a certain calm that comes with that. if you know you want to be a doctor or you want to be a
policeman or you know you want to be an astronaut, you know there's consequences that come with that. but if you're excited and decided that's my lot in life, you can take some comfort in that. i don't like the danger part. and i don't want to get hurt. i just got married, had a little baby. you met my baby, henry. >> i think we even have a picture of henry reading your book. >> not as much as holding it up, barely holding it up. but i'm not an adrenaline junkie but if you go and see political change, that political change most often is violent. it is society smashed into each other. >> a final thought? it's haunting me, your reporting on the migration crisis. and for the bombs, is that the most heartbreaking experience in a way? >> in a certain sense since i had a baby, i'm connecting more. you can get compassion fatigue
if you see a lot of terrible things happen over time, but i found covering the migration crisis, seeing these families and these children going through the frozen fields and standing behind barbed wire, walking for days and days going to a checkpoint to push back by police batons and tear gas, it did bring out something emotional in me that perhaps had been dormant to see people who have decided by the hundreds of thousands that it's better to walk and to go to an uncertain future where they are unwelcome in many cases, than just to stay where they are. it's an emotional story. >> it's biblical in its grip. richard engel, safe and sound here. love to henry and mary. >> thank you, i will pass on to them your regards. >> and the book is "and all hell broke loose."
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you know? we need to get that dog and follow him around, and every time they say these things like, oh, you know, the great recession was caused by too much regulation. beco you know? >> hillary clinton, was one of the more memorable moments of this campaign season. joining me now for the daily fix, "washington post," and ann, you've been out covering her from state to state. i've never heard her do the dog barking thing before. >> reporter: no, i think this is destined to be a political ad by somebody. it was actually a genuinely, i think, a funny moment. i don't think if you had written that as something she was going to do, anybody would have believed you, but it was funny. and who knows? maybe her side will make it into an ad. >> and, you know, jonathan, they really are facing a do or die situation in nevada because from all i'm hearing from, not just
from the sanders people but from own people, it feels down there as though he's closing the gap and gets ready to perhaps move fast her in the nevada caucuses. >> right. and as we saw in iowa, he does well in caucuses. and this is the first test of the so-called firewall for secretary clinton whether voters of color or people of color would be the ones who keep senator sanders at bay, but if you have latino voters who will make up a big chunk of the voters in the nevada caucuses come out for senator sanders, and then they go to south carolina where the african-american vote is presumed to be the strongest part of the firewall for secretary clinton, if senator sande sanders. >> and she is in new york today
and a private fundraiser, at one of the big hedge funds, black stone group, but then of course, meeti meeting with al sharpton and trying to nail down more support from african-american leaders going into south carolina. >> yes, and also this afternoon, she's giving what her campaign is billing as a pretty significant speech on race, this afternoon up in harlem. so this is clearly an attempt to do a couple of things. she's got the nevada caucuses between now and that first test of support among african-american voters in south carolina. she's got to get past that. she's probably at this point best case scenario, she wins by a small amount in nevada and then it's on to south carolina. she's already sort of looking past nevada and looking to south carolina to try to make it clear
that the fire pawall is real an whole for her. with constitutional black organizations outside of the south so she's here in new york today and in chicago tomorrow. >> jonathan, when we look at hillary clinton and south carolina, she has got to win somewhere. because iowa's most likely disputed so informnevada has to win for south carolina. >> better to win in nevada than not to win, but as ann pointed out, secretary clinton is getting a big speech on race today. and to add on what ann was saying, one of the things the speech is doing is highlighting the fact that when she talks to african-americans, she is talking about the issues that they care about and are concerned about from a racial perspective, and one of the knocks against senator sanders is that when he talks about issues that are important to people of color, yes, he talks
about income equality and he talks about the big banks, but he doesn't acknowledge or at least to a lot of critics, doesn't acknowledge the racial component to a lot of the issues that african-americans and people of color care about. >> jonathan capehart and ann geran, thank you so much. and coming up rk, we have the appeal to black voters and one of the leaders she met with in new york this morning. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. across america, people
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hosted the meeting with hihilla clinton. there's no endorsement before the next primary elections or before you meet with bernie sanders? >> i think all of us, our organizations are non-partisan and do not endorse but we seek to inform the discussion by voters as to who they will vote for. we seek to inform candidates about our public policy position, so today was about that through the means of a briefing for secretary clinton and we offered the same to every candidate, andrea. republican and democrat. we're in discussions with the sanders campaign about scheduling the briefing for him and remain open and we've invited in writing every candidate for the very same type of briefing we held today with secretary clinton. >> will you meet with senator sanders before south carolina votes? >> we're going to meet with him as soon as possible. i think it's important that we make ourselves available as soon
as the candidate signals that they would like to participate in such a briefing. so i'm hopeful that we'll be able to get it scheduled, because we want to be fair. we want to be even-handed. we want everyone to know our aim here is not support or criticism of any candidate, but we have an obligation to push and press the issues that are important to us. be it jobs and the economy, mass incarcerations, schools and education. democracy and voting rights. all of these are issues with talked about today. we raise concerns. secretary clinton, i think, demonstrated an ease and familiarity with many of the issues we talked about. but it was also an important time for her to listen to us. and we did most of the presenting and most of the talking. she asked questions. she offered some commentary. it's the kind of dialogue that we hope to have with every
candidate. >> she has criticized him for being a one-issue candidate. and jonathan capehart just saying some african-americans and some people of color interpret his message to be income inequality, but not really the the larlarger scope. >> andrea, i said -- let me just say this. i think income inequality is a critical issue. pathways to the middle class, upward social mobility but it's difficult to understand it with understanding the racial dimension of it and that is that african-americans are concentrated at the bottom of the economic scale. disproportionately, so that the racial wealth gap to understand it in all of its dimensions is necessary if a president will
understand the steps that need to be taken to confront the challenge in a very real and meaningful way. so we hope to have those discussions. i wouldn't want to offer any, if you will, editorial comment on what i heard today, as of yet. i would encourage people who are interested to go to our web site, both secretary clinton and senator sanders and dr. carson and the now departed candidate chris christie responded to our questionnaire and we published the results of that questionnaire online for everyone to see. we want to inform the voters, we want to inform the public. that was the aim of today's conversation. >> to be continued indeed. thank you very much. and coming up -- a constitutional crisis. could the battle of replacing justice scalia be the ultimate divide in the senate? you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. ( melodic, calm music ) we said goodbye to the day.
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nbc news correspondent pete williams joins me now. they have announced the plans for the court in the funeral. >> not normally announced them but what we talked to people familiar with the fans, he will lie in repose. if you look at the buildings in the big stairs in the bronze doors, that's the great hall, less given. justice scalia escorted the president and the first lady past the casket when it was the great hall. and then the funeral itself will be at the shrine of the immaculate conception here in washington, dc on saturday morning and then justice scalia was there, of course, when pope
francis was here when the pope set mass at that facility. a huge gathering there, a huge kind of gathering of catholics for that mass. sites he's well familiar with. >> interesting to note that in one of his dissents, he wrote about wanting more diversity in the supreme court because you have either catholics or jews, no protestants, no one who didn't go to yale or harvard. saying you needed more diverse opinions. it's exactly the argument that affirmative action supporters make for more diverse opinion in the university classes. >> it comes up every time there's a supreme court vacancy. because they do seem to follow the same pattern, appeals court justices, alina kagen is an exception but still a group of people that come from those law
schools. steven brier was asked about this once. why do you all people come from the same backyarground? he's like that's asking the chicken for the recipe of chicken ala king. >> we're quick there. pete williams, thank you very much for your reporting here. >> you bet. >> that does it for this busy edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow us online and on facebook. krag melvin is up next from south carolina on msnbc. ibs-d. you know the symptoms when they start. abdominal pain. urgent diarrhea. now there's prescription xifaxan. xifaxan is a new ibs-d treatment that helps relieve your diarrhea and abdominal pain symptoms. and xifaxan works differently. it's a prescription antibiotic that acts mainly in the digestive tract. do not use xifaxan if you have a history of sensitivity to rifaximin,
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great scrutiny. >> this is the most rattled eve seen donald trump. >> what is the difference between you and mr. trump? i can say, i don't, well, behavioral differences. >> huge campaign contributions. huge. >> we've trained this dog and the dog, if it's not true, hoost goi going to bark. the republicans, we need to get the dog and follow him around and every time they say these things, like, oh, the great recession was caused by too much regulation, arf! >> good afternoon. i'm steve kornacki coming to you live from liberty tap room in columbia, south carolina. we're here for the special coverage of the trail and the countdown is across south
carolina, trying to rally voters with time running out. the latest policy poll showing trump leading the republican pack by 2-1 margin. it's taken after saturday night's debate and on the side, hillary clinton is in new york city. bernie sanders kicked off his day here in south carolina, meeting with civil rights leaders this morning in harlem. bernie sanders started at a breakfast here in columbia. also showing clinton leaving the democratic contest with just under 2 weeks. we have a team of workers. kerry, we will start with you. a lot of blowback.
but here's the new poll. still comfortably in the lead. >> let's look at the survey monkey poll talking about whether the republicans believe he is the likely one to win and as you take a look at the poll, you can see 86% of the contacted say they do believe that donald trump is the eventual winner. outstanding the activities here in north augusta, you can see there's several hundred supporters with donald trump, i'm going to come over here and why don't you come here. >> we talk to some voters here. first of all, are you republicans or democrats? in south carolina, you can vote either which way. >> republican? >> you guys are republicans or democrats. okay. great, so as you know, at the debate and then following the debate, donald trump seemed to take on jeb bush through his
brother, george w. bush and challenged him on whether he kept this country safe from 9/11. so the exact quotes, there's no question of what donald trump said here. he said george bush was president during the greatest attack of the history of the united states, and then went on to talk about the fact that people said i heard that for years, he, george bush, kept the country safe after 9/11. what about during 9/11? this was the first attack in the country. >> so when you hear this, it does what? it speaks the truth? >> yes. your thoughts on what he said about the former president of this country. >> we did have the greatest
terrorist attack of my lifetime occur while he was president and there was, in my opinion, a lot of chatter that could have been picked up on, even during the clinton administration, they knew about the different problems going on across the middle east and it was never paid attention to. >> when you hear donald trump say this to you, it's not offensive. he speaks the truth. >> yes. >> but it doesn't influence your feelings towards george w. bush? >> no. >> how does it impact your decision whether you might consider supporting somebody else like jeb bush? >> would support him. >> his mother and his brother. both republicans, how do you feel about the support that he or the base at least to george w. bush? >> i think it was kind of political. like politics. >> you didn't expect that from
trump? >> no. you get in the trenches and he's trying to win a nomination, but that's my opinion. he seems to have a way to cut through all of it. when we were somebody to step off. >> your support continues? >> yes. >> thank you very much. i know you want to get in your positions. here amongst the noise here, waiting for donald trump to arrive. even though there was some criticism of george w. bush, the volume was loud on that, it doesn't seem to impact at least a sampling of the vote, and their support in donald trump. steve? >> very interesting stuff there in north augusta, south carolina. kerry sanders, thank you for that. we are asking you to weigh in on our microsoft pulse question of the day. is trump crossing the line in blaming george w. bush for 9/11? vote now at pulse.msnbc.com and we bring you results later on in the show. and some exciting news to
announce today. msnbc is going to be holding an hour long town hall with donald trump right here in south carolina hosted by joe scarborough and mika brzezinski. msnbc is inviting all to participate in similar forum interviews this primary season. and ted cruz, another one of those republican candidates, he is expected to hold a rally here in columbia, the state capital in about two hours and for more, let's bring in msnbc's hallie jackson. she has been following cruz this campaign season. so hallie, cruz, we see in the new poll basically a 2-1 deficit behind donald trump. he's also fighting with marco rubio right now trying to play catch-up. what's the strategy here? we see a lot of negative attacks, at least on the air waves. >> he's punching up and down. trying to get some oxygen in
this race, steve. you talk about this his position here, hoping to end up in the top tier. trying to tap in today and also on the attack, and i want to read you just a couple of minutes ago. we got word about donald trump there is a fairly rich irony of donald trump calling anyone insane that typically people who are unstable engage in angry rants that are uncontrollable, he adds that's not typical to ascertain who's behaving that way in this race. yet gagain we see ted cruz hammering trump quite hard, not just like a nasty guy or not likable but certainly personal nonetheless, at least that's when it sounds like.
his superpac getting in on this as well. a new ad out from one of cruz's supporting superpacs. >> who do you trust to fill our federal courts? donald trump with his new york values? or ted cruz. >> this is part of the overall strategy you see from cruz and his allies of portraying donald trump as too liberal for a state like south carolina, using trump's own words against him, essentially, as they move forward in this race. the question is, will it work with five days left until the primary? we'll see. >> extension of the new york values, we saw it a month ago. thank you for joining us. appreciate it. and turning to the democratic side of the 2016 race for the battle of the african-american vote now in full swing. hillary clinton and bernie sanders make their pitch to the key voting block ahead of the
primary here, in just two hours, the candidates will be hosting dual events trying to win support. hillary clinton in new york city at 3:00 p.m. there. to make a major speech on racism, this comes after she met this morning with leaders of several civil rights organizations. >> i'm not a single issue candidate. we don't live in a single issue country. and we have work to do. and that work can only be done in partnership with one another to advance the cause of civil and human rights and as you said, live up a way to the ideals of our country, which is exactly what our goal must be. >> a prayer breakfast and
speaking to a crowd in charleston where dylan ruth shot and killed nine african-american church goers as the mother imannuel. and the speech, singled out eric garner's daughter who endorsed for president. garner was killed during an arrest in new york staten island. >> it's a terrible thing what i saw on tv. and what i saw happen to so many other people, but it must be a new phenomenon. i don't know what's going on. why is it happening now? understand that what's going on now, especially with regard to african-americans. this is not new. it has been going on decade after decade after decade. >> and msnbc's tremain lee off to the beach that hillary clinton is headed.
what do we know about what went down there? >> reporter: when you think about a gathering of influential african-american leaders, the national urban league, al sharpton, and brooks, head of the naacp, they convened to talk about the 21st century agenda for jobs and freedom and meaning they want to address issues of poverty and a lack of excess and education. so as bernie sanders has been kind of exciting black folks through the south especially, hillary clinton today is kind of securing that base of the establishment. but she also wants to speak to the folks who are raising the banner for black lives matter and all of those organizations that young people coming in to activi activism. today for research and black culture, beyond the idea of criminal justice reform. the idea of white supremacy and
the buzz words we heard from activists, that's when we expect to hear from her. the idea that beyond what's happening in the streets between young african-americans and the police, about equal pay for women of color, the end of grid line and the opportunity for jobs for underserved communities. >> all right, up there in new york, thank you for your report. now turning to the panel in columbia, we have with us from wis television, charles and jeremy boarden, excuse me, here in south carolina. so charles, let me start with you. we're talking about this question of the price, if any political price for going after the bush family, the early indication from the poll we're seeing today is no price to be paid. does that surprise you? >> it's not surprising just because of his bulletproof
nature. he could shoot somebody on fifth avenue and still would support him but doesn't mean the republicans go after it. we saw cruz earlier. i spoke with marco rubio last night who referenced back to his performance in the debate saturday night and said, yes, when i heard donald trump say something that i really wanted to call him on specifically referenced, yes, call him on that kind of thing. rubio has been unwilling to really go on the attack against fellow republicans, and really got into some deep water when he didn't go aggressive against chris christie back in new hampshire, but said when an issue comes up he wants to speak out on, he will. and this was one where he thought he should and of course, among the establishment republicans, that is a sensitive subject. because yes, george w. bush still remains highly respected, particularly here in south carolina. we saw that in the appearances in the campaign on behalf of jeb. >> so we're in the home stretch
here in south carolina. in 2012, we saw newt gingrich come out of nowhere to win the state big. there's a big surge. you're out there on the ground, are you getting a sense that any movement can play out in this electorate? >> i am not getting any of that sense and i think that, you know, what we're speaking to and especially the folks, so striking, the interview you had earlier with the trump folks who if they said they were democrats criticizing the iraq war and all of these issues, it wouldn't surprise us, right? but they're trump supporters. but i think the level of enthusiasm that we see from the entire gop electorate favors trump because if you look at the polls and not to say polls are inevitably wrong and everybody likes the caution, but he's leading by so much in every single group. moderates, conservatives. doesn't matter how you break it down. so, you know, for there to be a giant surge in all of those
categories or in one, you know, you just don't feel it. and everything he says snamakesm more popular. and not to repeat myself, but he does in everything that he does and says, i think there's sort of a sub text of immigration. and economic insecurity. and i feel like the other candidates haven't tapped into it as much and sort of the boldness that he's projecting himself. no one has really done that and now hitting back against him, i think, it's a sensitive strategy. i don't know how that will play out for them. >> we had an interesting collision of opti isistic isics event at the exact same venue donald trump had an event about two weeks earlier in lexington county. it was in a barn in a farm type of structure.
trump set it up to be twice the size and pretty much filled it. it was well packed last night, well attended for rubio, but in terms of total volume, in the same place. you couldn't help but notice that this was a smaller crowd and could say it wasn't as packed. same place, different crowd. and rubio's was, yes, smaller. and this was about a week and a half closer to the primary. >> we talk about this example of 2012. it was so extraordinary, the p reputation of south carolina, it saved george w. bush and then in 2012. it went with the grassroots renegade candidate. >> to put that into perspective, that's the only blemish on south carolina's gop record since 1980. they have had a good track record of picking the eventual
nominee, you're right. gingrich accepted. >> that's the question. did something change in the republican party here in the obama era? >> maybe you could say that the 2012, picking gingrich predicted in some way the rise of the unconventional, trump is unconventional republican, if you want to be nice. peers maybe call him a liberal democrat at worse. and then a way, there's been -- south carolina is the birthplace of the tea party. the area around greenville. they've been upset for years. so the anger we're seeing that's sort of the national press is catching up to, you would have in virginia to lose to somebody nobody heard of. there are signs along the way that they were splintering. nobody paid attention. now they're paying attention because, you know, trump is the angered candidate and that's who everybody seems to want.
>> it was more of being outflagged from the right, particularly on immigration. there was a populism that transcends the ideology. you see people supporting trump who ygenerally let the social issues go by the wayside and concerns about guns. those don't play into necessarily the traditional republican wheelhouse. meanwhile we've seen the republican establishment come out for bush and rubio. last night, we saw in lexington county. enthusiastic and with two of them up there with brief endorsements and introductions and then rubio speaks. a couple nights prior, we were a couple of blocks from here with lindsay graham, south carolina senator and former presidential candidate, very entuesdhusiastiy for jeb bush.
more conservative, more mainstream. and yet, that's not who the trump supporters go for. >> it's interesting. we saw this in iowa and new hampshire. trying to find a geographical center, it was spread out in both states. we start to see that again here too. appreciate you both joining us. up next, hillary clinton's meeting with civil rights leaders in new york and set to deliver a speech on race. al sharpton met with clinton this morning and join me to talk about that next. in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and university partnerships, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in utica, where a new kind of workforce is being trained.
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is clear. both are offering raw rhetoric on race. nbc.com's leanne caldwell, they have begun speaking about racial disparity, themes of entrenched racism, arguably more aggressive than any democratic presidential candidate since jessie jackson in 1988. join me now is the reverend, the national action network and the most of politics nation on msnbc and you're just meeting with the democratic front-runner, hillary rodham clinton in new york. what was your discussion about? >> well, she met with nine organizations that have been central in the last several years. many standing back decades, the president with brooks and mark.
and the action network, 25 years old. those of us who wanted to make sure that in the middle of this contest, that as we see the end of the term, two terms of the first black president that the concerns of black americans are not marginalized. this president has dealt with criminal justice matters, everything from trayvon martin back. it has phonot been in the campa and we've seen the last couple of weeks it has been a part of the democratic side. it is not on the republican side. we talked at length about the criminal justice system and we talked about voting rights. people are forgetting, steve, as you so accurately point out all the time, 15 states have changed voting laws. this is the first time they were going to affect. that will disproportionately
affect black voters. what secretary clinton and senator sanders stand on that. we dealt with police reform. we dealt with educational disparity. it was a wide ranging meeting. then she went in the room and met with young people that lead various departments of our organizations. nobody can deliver the black vote. nobody's monolithic and neither are young blacks monolithic. some of them protest like members do, and social services. so we wanted to hear from the youth leaders of tomorrow and young leaders of today and they had their session with her. i thought it was a blunt and frank meeting. we'll be meeting collectively with senator sanders. i had breakfast with him last woo week and he's agreed to do so. this is not about endorsements. some may individually endorse. this is around dealing with
issues and policies. >> you mentioned you had the one on one meeting with bernie sanders last week. listening to bernie sanders in your conversation last week, listening to hillary clinton in your meeting today, s substantively, are there differences between you and what sanders are offering? >> i could not say after the collective meeting, sanders has with everyone else. personally, i see some differences, but i don't want to, in any way, give away whatever the collective body does in our meeting with senator sanders. but we are hearing discussions of race that we haven't heard, i would differ a little since 2004. if you remember, i made democratic primaries discuss race when we ran in 2004 with joe lieberman and others. we had an outcome again, front
and center with the democratic primaries. and flint, michigan, brought up by the young people. reverend sharp williams, we haven't heard about flint from the republicans. we haven't heard anything from them about mass incarceration. we hope as the democrats now amplify that the republicans will too. you're running for president of everyone, not just president of your party. >> i know you said as the leader, you're not endorsing in this race, but we did take this video right after your meeting with secretary clinton. >> got to watch her. kind of bossy. >> my lips are sealed. >> reverend sharpton, only she knows. she's not telling personally, is it possible you might endorse
hillary clinton? >> or sanders, anyone else. what i was teasing, everyone is trying to guess what i'll do, somebody individually. but clearly, no one else knows and at this point i don't know what i might do or anyone individually may do. the agenda is what we're trying to put forward. as i said, on sunday, before we deal with whose side we'll get on, we want to see who's on our side. >> the reverend al sharpton wrapping up the meeting with hillary clinton, thank you for joining us. appreciate that. >> thank you. >> and a reminder you can watch politics nation every sunday morning at 8:00 eastern, i know something about that time, right here on msnbc. msnbc's kasie hunt follows the sanders campaign, interviewed him after he met with reverend al sharpton. you just met with erica garner,
eric garner's daughter and endorsed bernie sanders. >> she was at an event with bernie sanders, if particular, t trying to make inroads. that's the kind of testimony they feel eric garner could offer. here's the explanation for why she's supporting bernie sanders. >> i've been in talks with bernie sanders ever since the black lives matter in seattle. >> okay. >> and my brother, alex campbell, he told me i should look into him. i was like, yeah, that's what they should do. he's like, no, he's for us and you need to do your research. i was like, oh my god, this is a protester. >> so that's what it is for you.
he's a protester. >> yes, and he grew up in the same brooklyn neighborhood that i'm from. a low income neighborhood for immigrants, and rent stabilized and he knows, he put his body on the line and got arrested in 1960s and marched with martin luther king, he stood with jesse jackson. so basically, he's with black people when it wasn't popular. >> he doesn't seem to have the reputation among african-americans here in south carolina, for example. a lot with hillary clinton. why do you think that is? >> because she's popular. they are used to seeing her face. and that's why i'm out here. i just want people to have an open mind and give bernie a chance and look, don't necessarily listen to what he's saying now. look at his >> a lot of work to do with african-american voters. and eric garner's mother has end
doorsed secretary clinton. >> casey hunt with the sanners campaign. turning back now to the republican race here in south carolina, last night, jeb bush pulled out the big gun. his brother, the 43rd president. >> since we left the white house, i've been kind of quiet in the public square. eight years in the limelight was plenty. i came here for two reasons. one, because i care deeply about jeb, and two because i care deeply about our country. the presidency is a serious job that requires sound judgment and good ideas. strength is not empty rhetoric. it is not bluster. it is not thee at tricks, in my person -- perns experience, the strongest person isn't usually the loudest person in the room. >> pointed words from former
president george w. bush making his case for his brother. the former president did not mention donald trump by name but it was very clear who he was talking about in those remarks. the big question, can bush 43 help his brother recapture some of the magic that helped save his own candidacy back in 2000. kayton dawson is here. he's a free agent right now heading into this. let me ask you the question from this angle. we put that poll up with donald trump at 35, 18 for cruz. if you are rubio, cruz, kasich for that matter, is your number one goal just to make sure that donald trump doesn't get the win in south carolina so this race is extended a while? >> i think it's going to be the margins, and right now it's a race that's been very different. people are shooting for the silvered medial and not the gold
medal. donald trump has bled a little bit in the last week or two. these things ebb and flow. i don't see him bleeding enough to lose. i think it will be the spread that comes down with rubio, cruz, kasich is coming in there, and you are listening to jeb bush. i think ben carson is whole another conversation that's not even being made as to whether he should stay in the race or not. >> 55% made up their minds in the last week, four weeks ago. it was newt gingrich, there's no more debates on the schedule between now and saturday. what would it take for one of those other candidates to take that 55% and get them to all coalesce around themselves? >> i think there's so much activity and news i'm not sure one person will be able to do that. the question is who is two and three and possibly four that's going to punch the ticket out of here to head to super tuesday and what the spreads are. if they are all bunched up into second, third, fourth place,
they will all get to travel. if jeb bush stays in single digits, his traveling days are over. >> the longer they all travel, the more it works to trump's benefits. >> there's no question. trump has got a number that's fairly solid. any time donald trump is not talking about illegal immigration, it's probably a bad day for donald trump. last couple of days he's focused on cruz and rubio. he will get back on message. if he gets a big blow-out in south carolina, that's a checkmark we've given in the past. the only time we missed was newt gingrich. >> he was not coming off the state off a big new hampshire win. if you are trump and you follow up with a win, is that train impossible to stop? >> that train is leaving the station. it's going to be tough. >> thank you for joining us. up next, senator marco rubio take on the two at the top of the pack. donald trump and ted cruz. >> now, look, elections are
about choices. so i'm not here today to bad mouth about anyone but you deserve to know differences between candidates. ♪ can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive?
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because the salad there is always served with the original hidden valley ranch. back here in columbia, south carolina. marco rubio has three stops on his schedule today in the state. he appears to be surging with bigger crowds at least. nbc is traveling with the rubio campaign in summerville down by charleston. gabe, what are you seeing on the ground there? >> reporter: hi, there, steve. good afternoon. this rally just wrapped up. larger crowds here. more enthusiastic crowds here than we saw just a few days ago in new hampshire. the rubio campaign says that updated polling shows him competing for second place with ted cruz and that is a good sign for the rubio campaign. just a few days ago, there was talk this would be a battle
between jeb bush and marco rubio for the establishment lane of the party. now he's going after ted cruz for second place and we spoke with a few of the voters here. they do they say like marco rubio. >> he seems less aggressive. i think that he is not totally bashing our current president. i like that. >> he's a good republican, good conservative. he's got a good track record. he's presidential. a strong on national security, which is really, really important to me. >> reporter: now, marco rubio also going after ted cruz quite a bit. he spoke with reporters a short while ago talking about ted cruz's record. let's listen to that.
>> i'm asking what's the difference between you and ted cruz. and i know ted and we like each other and we get along and we have some differences and we're going to argue about those in front of 14 million americans on saturday night. there's a big difference. ted has been weak on national security. >> marco rubio campaign trying to stress national security issues as it seek to really rebound from that disappointing fifth place finish in new hampshire. the rubio campaign says it appears to be making that surge. back to you, steve. >> all right. gabe gutierrez with that. next hour, donald trump is going to be speaking in north augusta about an hour's drive from here. his strategy, hit them and hit them hard. show no mercy. here test -- he is talking about his opponents. >> excuse me, the world trade center came down during the reign of george bush. it came down. i have not been doing this long. i've been in it since june 16th.
i will tell you i have never ever met a person that lies more than ted cruz. >> and alan wilson is a republican. he's also the attorney general here in south carolina. he's not aligned with any of these candidates. staying out of this fight, i guess. you've gotten a really good sort of up close and personal look at all of them. let me ask you this. we see them all through television. when you see these guys up close and personal, do you ever walk away staying, ted cruz, marco rubio, donald trump, totally different than they are on tv? >> every single candidate i've been on stage with, we're down to a smaller field now, everyone i've been on stage with is even better in person, and that is something that's very interesting. i thought some might be a little lessen gauging. they were all engaging and personable. >> the idea that donald trump is in this poll we just showed,
he's basically 2-to-1 ahead of rubio and cruz. there's this battle for second place. the second question is does second place matter if donald trump wins this thing big? >> listen, right now, people are scraping for any and everything they can get their hands on. if you look back at the last several election cycles, when it came to south carolina, by the time you get to south carolina, after the caucuses in iowa and the new hampshire primary, we pretty much got a first and second place and there's no one else. there might be a third and fourth distant but right now we seem to have like three or four candidates battling for that second slot, for that second ticket out of south carolina. this is like nothing i've ever seen. it's a unique elect cycle. of course, donald trump has certainly played a major role in that. i think this is a full-on battle for second place and when you get to second place and you have two choices, does mr. trump maintain that lead that he's had at a full race? that's the big question. >> you no he this state. you've run for office in this state. i'm curious if you can give us a layman's tour of the political
geography here. where are these candidates? what's the type of voters in the upstate, what's the type of voter around charleston? what are these candidates looking at when they are looking at south carolina? >> upstate of carolina, they ask where you go to church, in mid lands, they ask where do you work, and low country, where do you drink? they are very distinct and different and different appeals. >> cruz would be looking for the upstate, more evangelical, more religious. >> general speaking, the upstate is nearly 40% of the vote, the voting bloc. there are seven or eight counties up there that account for it. it's predominantly an evangelical group. closer to the ocean, you are getting a more moderate, traditional republican. we have a lot of people retiring from up north. they are conservative. probably a little more moderate than the more conservative wing of the evangelical base.
>> what they were saying is what they are seeing across the state that donald trump's support defies boundaries. it seems like his support is across the board in those three regions, is that what you are seeing? >> yes. i'll tell you why. donald trump has tapped into a common theme in every single demographic of the republican base, whether it's the more moderate or liberal, he's tapped into the anger of the party. every single part of the base has some anger to it and i was talking to a gentleman a few weeks ago and i asked him and he told me he was wearing a trump hat. i said why are you supporting mr. trump and he said because he's my middle finger to the establishment. very colorful metaphor, but what that told me is that people are angry. they are mad and probably a little scared and they are looking for someone who is different than anything that they have ever seen before and i think mr. trump certainly would qualify as different from what we normally nominate. >> that's a great way of putting it. i'm probably going to steal that
line some day. later this afternoon, we're going to hear from president obama. he is scheduled to hold a news conference at 4:30 eastern time. up next, we're going to examine the president's rare election year challenge of trying to replace justice antonin scalia on the supreme court. we'll be right back. staying in rhythm... it's how i try to live... how i stay active. so i need nutrition... that won't weigh me down. for the nutrition you want without the calories you don't... try boost® 100 calories. each delicious snack size drink gives you... 25 vitamins and minerals and 10 grams of protein. so it's big in nutrition and small in calories. i'm not about to swim in the slow lane. stay strong. stay active with boost®.
and on your left now we have live pictures where donald trump is about to speak in north augusta, south carolina, at a big rally for him and on your right, former president bill clinton holding a campaign rally in greenville, south carolina. the former president giving a wide-ranging address. he you didn't say -- he just touched on san bernardino and he is now talking about flint. president obama is due to speak to reporters in california. he's talking to the u.s. association of southeast asian nation's suxt. he will likely face questions
about the next supreme court justice this after republicans have vowed to block any nominee president obama puts forward. cory booker talked about the political divide on morning joe. >> i don't care what you think about of their juris prudence. this is a american who served this country. there's a sadness. he's a father. a great family man. there didn't seem to be a pause for a moment. >> and joining necessity -- joining me now is jeffrey rosen. jeffrey you say in a new piece in the atlantic that obama's main criteria for scalia's replacement should be a strong adherence to the constitution, somebody willing to fight for constitutional principles the way antonin scalia did. le auto, i wonder given the political debate as to whether the president should be appointing anybody.
won be it a wiser choice to go with a moderate choice who might have a chance of breaking that republican opposition? >> that's a tough political question. my instinct is given the given the statements made by republicans, they will not hold hearings on any nominee that president obama offers. the president may well be inclined to appoint someone he thinks would be the best justice on the thought that compromising isn't going to help him, anyway. he cares a lot about the supreme court, a former constitutional law professor. he cares a lot about his legacy. i would expect him to support a strong visionary candidate that deserves to serve on the supreme court. >> you're basically saying the left's answer to antonin scalia. what are some names that come to mind when you're looking for that kind of candidate? >> well, the short list that's been widely circulated includes lower court justices like vossen and judge lawford in california,
judge wynn, or he could go out of the box and choose attorney justice loretta lynch who would enjoy that category more. she has a political background. there has been a lot of objections that the supreme court is almost entirely former appellate judges, went to two law schools, harvard and yale, and president obama may say we need someone with a political background to exert the pragmatic as well as the elec r electoral strength to stand up to the court. >> given that republican opposition you're talking about, though, and the high likelihood that any pick the president puts forward doesn't actually get confirmed this year, give one of those candidates a second pause about even accepting the president's offer? >> that's a good question, too. there is a sense that anyone he puts up is going to be a noble martyr, almost certain not to be confirmed, and i guess the question is whether those
candidates would want to bet on the possibility of the next president if he or she is a democrat reappointing them, or whether they might think that the seat is so hard to fill that it's not even worth the candle. you know, it's going to be a brutal couple of months. you can imagine whoever is nominated having to spend a lot of time going on television and talking about the record because they're unlikely to get a hearing before the senate. it's going to be a full-time job. >> jeffrey rosen now with a new piece on the supreme court vacancy caused by antonin scalia's passing. thank you for joining us. appreciate that. let's get an update on the microsoft pulse question. you've been weighing in on the question, has donald trump crossed the line in blaming george w. bush for 9/11. 7% say yes, 93% say no. before we go to break, let's li listen to what bill clinton is saying in greenville, south
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columbia, south carolina at the liberty tap room. we've opened a brand new chapter in the 2016 race for president. for days now we've been focused on the matchups of republicans, donald trump battling ted cruz, marco rubio and jeb bush. today it's like a square dancing partner trade, a major shift in targets. now trump is aiming at bush and rubio is attacking ted cruz. >> he's lying, and i think it's disturbing. i said that at the debate. he's now literally just making things up. >> marco does not get to simply scream "liar" when his record is pointed out. >> i'll be a commander in chief, not an agitator in chief, not a blowhard in chief. >> why do you mention bush? he's not competitive. although his brother is here to try and make him better. i don't think it will happen, personally. >> now we have jeb bush's appearance in south carolina adding to his family campaigners. dipping his toe into the primary
fray, not naming names but directing things at people who are clearly a target. >> these are tough times. and i understand that americans are angry and frustrated. but we do not need someone in the oval office who shows anger and frustration. >> take this into account. new national numbers today demonstrating donald trump's lead over the republican field. it's growing. our team is spread out at republican events across south carolina today, and we want to start in north augusta, south carolina with nbc's kerry sanders. donald trump expected to begin that rally, kerry, any time now. trump went after ted cruz. he remains after jeb bush, but that bush name really gets reaction. so how are trump supporters responding when he hits on bush and his family? >> let's get a little of that sample of reaction here.
you can see i'm in north augusta. there is a very large crowd here. interestingly, in this large crowd, i found a few people who are here to listen to donald trump, including roy luke. why don't you step this way so we can see you. you are a supporter of? >> actually, i'm supporting jeb bush. he's my first pick. >> so when you see what donald trump said about his brother, where does that leave you? >> it leaves me kind of sour. i don't like -- the 11th commandment under ronald reagan was you don't speak badly about fellow republicans. jeb bush is my first choice, but unless we have a major upset victory on super tuesday or a broker convention, it looks like donald trump is going to be carrying the banner, and i can support donald. >> thank you very much. i appreciate it. i'm going to make my way through some of the crowd as we're waiting for donald trump to arrive. he should be here soon. charles parish is over here. mr. parish, i'm curious. we were talking earlier. who do you support? >> right now i'd say trump.
>> how do you feel about what he said about george w.? >> well, when it comes to george w., i realize that it wasn't w.'s fault. was he in office at the time? yes, he was. but, now, did it take place because of something he did or didn't do? no. >> so does it offend you when donald trump calls out george w. bush the way he did all in the name of politics as he competes against jeb bush? >> somewhat, yes, it does, because, i mean, i liked president bush. i felt like he did a fine job. but now i realize trump is thinking, i would think, toward the future when he knows he's got to pull some democrat votes from here and there. so what does he do, he makes an innuendo. did he necessarily blame bush for that? no. if you think about it, no, he didn't. did he in ssinuate? yes, he did. >> and that's good enough for
you, even though you support george w., you are a trump supporter? >> yes, i am. nobody has a campaign like him. if i had my way, i would tell him to use common sense, because every senator knows common sense involves not having a phd, anything else is just the common sense to know right from wrong. now, to me, if you use the word common sense, just saying to the public that you've got to understand, if you take pac money, you owe somebody. sooner or later, they're going to collect. >> reporter: so when you see donald trump self-funding his campaign, that's enough for you to push you over the line? >> that tells me i don't know exactly if he's going to do what he says he's going to do. you don't know that about any politician. how many times have we been promised over and over again,
we're going to do this, we're going to do that, we're going to close on obamacare. has it been done? no. they could have. pull the purse. that would do it. did they do it? no. >> mr. parish, thank you very much. retired firefighter here. as you can see, there is a large crowd of people here. i was kind of surprised when i see in here just randomly talking to people who say they're here to see donald trump but it's not necessarily that they're trump supporters, or at least trump supporters yet. thomas? >> ye >> yet. that is the operative word. mr. parish having an insightful conversation with you. cnn is going to host a town hall with donald trump tomorrow night at 8:00 eastern. joe scarborough and mik mika brzezimika brzezi mika brzezinski will host that. nbc's peter alexander was there and talked to the former florida governor.
take a look. do you think your brother can help us deliver the secret weapon with only days left to go in the state votes? >> i think my brother is well respected. he led this country during turbulent times, and he did it well. and people in south carolina appreciate that. they appreciate his post-presidency where he's not been involved in making comments about his successor. people appreciate that. they appreciate the fact that he is a person of integrity. and he shares south carolina values in that regard. so it's great that he came, and i think it made a difference. >> it was certainly jeb bush's largest rally. about a thousand folks showed up in charleston. the first lady laura bush joining them. do you get the sense that the campaign really thinks george w. bush can make a difference here in south carolina? >> you just played that
conversation we had with the governor a few minutes ago as we were on board their bus. it was a busy few days to make significant rounds in the state. i asked him what he has said are his goals going forward, and they won't be specific about third place, but i asked him if third place can be considered a victory, and he suggested this is still a long haul. as for the conversation, i did that prooifrtivately with his b. he told me that the advice his brother george w. bush gives him are, be steady, things will turn. things have not yet turned in the campaign. since the beginning it was viewed as the likely frontrunner in this race. he said that was premature. i asked him to compare donald trump to his own brother, which he laughed at that suggestion initially, but then he remind med of an image he is most proud, one of his brother standing on the mound at yankee
stadium just after 9/11 in his words "throwing high heat." i can't picture donald trump doing that. obviously taking great pride at the gun manufacturing plant, the so-called secret weapon, one he is confident will help him deliver, he says. if it doesn't happen here, he's still in it for a while. when i asked him what state he would win, he couldn't name one. it's a real challenge for this campaign. >> so, peter, on a shallow level question, the glasses are gone for good or just for the last 24 hours? >> reporter: it's funny that you noticed. we noticed that, too, yesterday. he was speaking on stage without his glasses. he said, i'm my own man, i'm just going to be who i am. he's worn those glasses for almost all of the campaign. last night they were missing. he told me just yesterday for the first time in his life he got contact lenses, so it appears for now we'll be seeing him without those glasses the rest of the way. thomas? >> a brave man to be trying those out. contact lenses aren't easy the first time out.
hallie jackson has been following the cruz campaign for months now. she joins me from our washington, d.c. bureau. donald trump called cruz a basket case and unstable person yesterday. cruz following up how? >> we're hearing cruz follow up with the idea that donald trump seems unstable, he seems angry that trump must be rattled that cruz is slipping in the polls. as we're talking about today, our survey shows trump still on top at least nationally. cruz is getting in on these trump attacks, with a new ad out about the trump superpac. >> the courts
are a battleground, and justice scalia's death makes south carolina's choice this week even more important, because the next president could replace as many as four justices. so who do you trust to make those picks? donald trump with his new york values, or cruz, who wins cases
before the supreme court, protecting gun rights, religious freedom and against the world court? >> so that's a reprizal of a couple different lines. it's what we heard from ted cruz on saturday night where he alleged that trump would put in what he called liberal justices in the supreme court were he president. it's also that value line that cruz was talking about a month ago. he's let it go on the trail a little bit, but spthe superpac picking up where he left off. cruz spoke about this military buildup in south carolina. obviously south carolina a state which has
a rich military history. cruz is very aware of that and speaking direct ly to that audience as he looks to gain some traction in the palmetto state. >> thanks so much. we want to go to nbc's gabe gutierrez. gabe is traveling with the rubio campaign in somerville, south
carolina. rubio has a full day of rallies today. busy schedule. any reaction from the attacks he's taking on from ted cruz? >> reporter: yeah, hi there, thomas. marco rubio just wrapped up this rally here in somerville. he is taking on ted cruz on issues such as immigration and national security. marco rubio really trying to build on the momentum he's gotten in the last few days since that disappointing fifth place finish in new hampshire. he just spoke to reporters earlier today and was asked directly, is ted cruz a liar? here's his response. >> he's lying. and i think it's disturbing. i said that at the debate, he's now literally just making things up. you saw what he did to ben carson, which is unfair to ben and wrong. and just here in south carolina this week, he's lied about my record on planned parenthood, he's lied about my position on marriage, he's lied about his own record on immigration, and so i think this is very disturbing when you have a
candidate that now, on a regular basis, just makes things up. i don't suspect he's going to apologize. it's part of the campaign strategy to not tell the truth, and it's troubling, it really is. >> reporter: so the cruz campaign has really struck back hard, and they say it's marco rubio who has shifted his stance on immigration and has him hit hard on the gang of 8 bill that they call amnesty. marco rubio is really trying, again, to build on momentum since new hampshire. his campaign says he is looser, his advisers say he's listening to them less and trying to help himself more. in the last few days, we've seen the crowd here in south carolina really start to grow for marco rubio. we spoke to several voters here. they said, look, they like what he has to say. they believe he can be the candidate to unify this party, and some of the voters have been turned off by donald trump. they say he's too crude to be president. they say that ted cruz is too polarizing to be president, so they've settled on marco rubio even though they're still
looking at other candidates. right now south carolina is crucial for the rubio campaign. they do feel, though, that they've gotten past that finish in new hampshire. thomas? >> gabe gutierrez reporting with the rubio campaign. gabe, thanks so much. the frontrunner for south carolina on the right is donald trump. he has just taken the stage in north augusta. that's about 60 miles from us here in columbia. let's listen in. >> truly one of my favorite events. it's an honor to be with you folks, and we have such a big decision to make and it's so important. saturday is going to be a really important day. as you know, we won new hampshire big. that was a big one. [ cheers and applause ] >> and just had an amazing time up there. we're expected to get 28, 29%, we ended up getting 36% in the polls. it was amazing. we won every single category. we won rich, we won poor, we won middle, we won heavy and thin,
we won women, we won men. we won highly educated and we won people with high school and people with less than high school, and we won in every category. it was an amazing period of time and they're great people. we have great people. it's just incredible. i knew it in new hampshire pretty well, and i know south carolina pretty well, beyond the political stuff. i have so many friends that live here. it's one of the beautiful places of the world and really very important politically, because i think if we can win on saturday -- you've got to vote on saturday, oh, please, please, get out and vote. you know i kid, but perhaps i'm not kidding. i started off by saying you know the story, right? if you're sick, if the doctor tells you you're not going to make it, you don't have a chance, but you can't get up, and your wife tells you she doesn't like you anymore, she fell in love with another man, it doesn't matter. you got to get out of bed and you got to vote, right? you got to vote!
[ cheers and applause ] >> it's true. no, you have to get out and you have to vote because it's so important. you know, you're going to have a lot to do with -- it's called make america great again. the politicians are not going to be able to do it. i know them. i know them. they get taken care of by the lobbyists. you saw that with the debate. i walk on stage, i have this huge poll number, and i walk on stage and everybody is very quiet. my kids and my wife were going crazy, but that was a wild time. i love the debate, and we got very good reviews on the debate, but the room was stacked with special interests and lobbyists and all the guys that pay the candidates money. in this case it was bush and rubio. every time they said something -- [ booing ] >> well, it's not going to happen with them, but every time they said something, there was applause. bush had this jumbled-up
statement, it was ridiculous. and i was the one, i gave two very highly conservative judges, and people go, oh, that's fine. that's true too a certain exten rnc's fault, but it shouldn't happen like that. you have to call them out so i called them out. you know the lobbyists and special interests in the audience, you had to see that audience. that was the richest audience i think i've ever seen. the heads of the drug companies, the heads of the elector companies, the heads of every special interest was in that room that night. i'm representing you people. i'm self-funding. i'm putting up my own money. i'm on it. >>. [ cheers and applause ] >> i'm on it. you know, it's time. >> they're listening to donald trump saying he's honored to represent you, also pointing out the difference between the fact that he is self-funded compared to every other campaign that was represented on the debate stage for the gop. now, tomorrow night at 8:00
eastern, the trump town hall will kick off on msnbc. joe and mika will moderate that. but just before that happens, governor john kasich will sit down with chris matthews here in south carolina for an extended one-on-one interview. you don't want to miss that, either. coming up, we're going to speak to the former south carolina republican leader about the ground in this state. then the polls for the south carolina finery. then they're off to nevada for that caucus on february the 23rd. and drifted off into the twilight. and when we woke, we found that the whole world had reinvented itself. sail with princess cruises, the best cruise line in europe. limited 7-day mediterranean fares from $999. call your travel consultant or visit princess.com.
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to be slipping following saturday night's debate in south carolina. the latest poll shows trump with a 17-point lead over ted cruz and marco rubio. we're n they are now tied at 18% in that poll, jeb bush and ben carson tied at 10% each. joining me now, the head of the new hampshire republican party and president of the south carolina public affairs. scott, it's great to have you with me, and boy, do you know a loft things about these two early voting states of new hampshire and south carolina. have you ever seen a race like this before for the gop? >> what's interesting about this race, if you take donald trump out, it's a regular race. you put donald trump in the mix and it's vastly different. vastly different. he's a fighter in south carolina at this time, i tell you. >> is he bulletproof? can any candidate make a round
before saturday? >> it's going to be tough. in south carolina he's winning. on the coast, he's winning. your polls, i think, are pretty accurate. he's not going to lose south carolina. the question is, who is second, who is third and who is fourth? this is a bush versus rubio fight, i think. >> they go from the midlands to the low country, but we've got the conservative ones in this race who have all held offices in the south, deep ties to the religious rite, but they're all losing to donald trump who technically does have business ties with florida. the religious rite he wouldn't have the deepest ties to, but why do you think his message resonates? >> people are sick and tired of nothing getting done in washington. i've talked to evangelical leaders, i've talked to conserve tifr leadeconserve
-- conservative leaders, they're for trump. they're sick and tiredness is of anything else. that's why they're so for trump in south carolina. >> we think about the bush campaign and jeb being in the bottom of the latest poll and tied with ben carson. does his brother's appearance help him in south carolina? and let's remind everybody that the former president, george w. bush, left office with an approval rating of 34%. do you think it helps? >> i saw two stickers coming into the studio today on cars saying, "thank you, w." the family is very well liked. does that transfer to jeb? i don't know. we've seen a lot of direct mail come in from his pac and from him in the last week. they're spending millions of dollars on 3-d mail pieces, believe it or not. i think you'll see a surprise for jeb here in south carolina. >> i think the bush campaign would hope for that. that really is important for who comes in second or third. what would you guess? who gets to punch their ticket for south carolina beyond trump?
>> this is interesting. here you have jeb bush who is trying to come in third in south carolina and beat rubio. and this is the third, really, primary test we've seen. it was iowa and new hampshire. you're saying you want to come in third and that's going to be a big win for you in the third primary? it's kind of strange. but it's true. i think you're going to see rubio fight it out with jeb for third place. i think cruz is second, i think trump is way out in front. so you're going to see four guys really go at it and go on to the next primary, i think. >> scott, thank you so much. a pleasure to have you with me with such insight. we've been asking you to weigh in on our microsoft polls question of the day. is donald trump crossing the line by blaming george w. bush for 9/11? pulse.msnbc.com. we'll have results for you later in this hour. after this break, more on the effort to replace justice antonin scalia. will this be the fight that
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(vo) making the most out of every mile. that's why i got a subaru impreza. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. welcome back, everybody. we return to one of the biggest political stories in the country, the death of supreme court justice antonin scalia and the potential for a constitutional crisis. senate republicans are closing ranks behind majority leader mitch mcconnell's plan to block consideration of any nominee. president obama is expected to discuss this issue at his press conference later today. that's coming up at 4:30 eastern time. the president has pledged that he will use his established authority to nominate the new justice, but in due time.
nbc justi brks krrk nbc reporter pete williams has more. we've seen his chair draped in black. what more can be made public on funeral plans? >> right, that's a tradition that goes back more than a hundred years to drape in black the seat where the justice sat. this is the doorway to the courtroom and there you see his seat just to the left in our picture, to the right if you're sitting there, of the chief justice because he was the most senior associate. that's where he sat. we now know that the -- by the way, this picture is taken from the great hall, and that is where -- you're looking through the doorway of the court building here. behind the perspective of this picture would be the supreme court's great hall, and that's where the casket burying justice scalia will lie in repose on friday. so there will be a public chance to file past the casket and pay
respect, something that justice scalia did in 2005 when william remson lay in pose. that's where he'll be on friday, and then the funeral will follow on saturday at the massive shrine of the i mmaculate conception here in washington. that will be on saturday, we expect saturday morning, and we don't know yet where the burial will be, thomas. >> pete williams reporting from washington, d.c. thank you, sir. i want to bring in the conversation now senior editor for slate and host for slate's amicus podcast. lots of talk today about blocking the president's nomination for a year. we don't have full details and all the confirmations about putting justice scalia to rest.
how bad could this get when it comes to the politics of nomination? >> i think it could get pretty bad. i think that when the opening bargain position within hours, maybe even moments of justice scalia's death being announced, when the opening position is, we're not even going to hear from anybody, much less vote on anybody, much less confirm anybody. there is nowhere to go from there. you have to climb down pretty far to have a real negotiation at that point, so it seems to me that the opening bid here from republicans, particularly senate republicans who seem to be in lock step about this, is that this is just not going to happen. this bench is going to be empty, in their view, until at least next january. >> we know senate minority leader harry reid said, denying the presidential constitutional duty to pick nominees.
republicans should not insult their intelligence for pretending there is a legal precedent for what they're about to do. there is not. is he correct about that, the historical precedent and none being set? >> i think he's right insofar as we have at least 16 instances going all the way back of lame duck presidents being able to confirm nominees in their last year. so the notion that this has never, ever happened, i think, is just not true. there is something called the thurman rule. it's the six-month envelope in which it's sort of seen unseemly to go ahead and appoint someone before their term ending. we're not in thurman territory here. >> when we talk in the context about a lame duck presidential year to the contrast of losing a justice who dies during a life appointment, this has only happened three times before where we've actually lost a justice who hadn't retired.
>> right. i think that the thing that gets complicated in this conversation is we have to separate the reality, which is that we are going to see, no matter who barack obama puts up, a profound shift in the way the court works. we are going to go from a court that has been a majority conservative court and that has been a five-four, predictable, reliable five-four court to where this sort of swing justice is the farthest to the right. and so i think it really changes everything. so the conversation about, you know, what is right, what is proper, whether the president has a mandate, whether we should wait until next year, even the funny conversation, the strict constructionalist argument that when the president gets appointment power, he doesn't really have it, all of that falls away when you look at just the base reality, which is citizens united, gun control, abortion, affirmative action.
all of the hot ticket items now are really up to be relitigated by a court that has been counted on for decades. this is a seismic shift, and that's what's really going on. >> thanks for your time. i appreciate it. coming up, we're going to talk about watching out for president obama to talk about this gridlock. today at 4:30 there will abe news conference. he's holding that on the west coast. it's coming from rancho mirage, california. our coverage will begin here at 4:00 eastern with chuck todd and we encourage you to stick around. we're just two days away from the democrat town hall in las vegas. it will be the last time clinton and sanders are on stage together ahead of the debate and caucus on saturday. clinton pushed for a vote with key leaders in new york. >> civil rights and economic
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she could control her cash flow, and keep the ranch running. chase for business. so you can own it. >> you better watch her. i told her and you better not tell. >> my lips are sealed. >> we had hillary clinton in new york joking after the meeting with reverend al sharpton. sharpton representing the national network says he's not prepared to endorse anyone, now publicly meeting with sanders and hillary clinton. and the secretary met with a number of civil rights leaders in new york today. she will also be giving a speech this afternoon in harlem where clinton is expected to discuss systemic racism. meanwhile, the democratic race really heating up in south carolina. earlier today, south carolina state representative jay todd
recklenberg who supports hillary clinton talked about state rights. >> if you want to talk about those in the process and those involved in civil rights, all you have to do is look at the clintons. all her career, that's all she did. he finally made it -- they talked about what they were doing, and this was back in the '60s and early '70s. this is not some johnny come lately as bernie sanders is. bernie sanders has been talking about issues with african-americans for the past 40 days. hillary clinton has been doing it for the past 40 years. >> wow. >> i'm sure the sanders camp will push back on a statement like that. senator sanders has a full day of campaigning here in south carolina. he attended a breakfast this morning where he mentioned that he attended the march on washington, and then late morning he held a town hall in columbia at the university of south carolina where he name checked donald trump. >> when we stand together and we
do not allow the donald trumps and the others of the world to divide us up, because that's what the game is always about. [ cheers and applause ] >> when we stand together in this, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, there is nothing that we cannot accomplish. >> let me bring in msnbc's kasie hunt who has been following the bernie sanders campaign. you were there this morning for this town hall. talk about the folks that turned out. are these feel the bern kids, or are they folks that are interested in sample liing his message? >> young people, i think, tend to feel the bern. it was a smaller crowd, a smaller auditorium and was invite only for usc students. but the focus was very much on what we were just talking about.
he appeared with erica garner, whose father eric garner died after he was put in a chokehold as we've all seen many times. she cut a very emotional ad for bernie sanders and she's actually been here in south carolina for several days campaigning for him. she offered the opposite of what we just saw there, where they're accusing sanders of being a johnny come lately to many of these issues. she's arguing that he's actually been involved in these things his whole life. maybe he wasn't a civil rights leader, but as a 22-year-old he was involved in sit-ins in chicago, et cetera. >> obviously the black vote counts in south carolina for an enormous percentage within the democratic party. when we think about what we're talking about on the campaign trail for systemic issues within the judicial system or within police reform, criminal justice reform, there is a divide within the garner family with eric's mother supporting hillary clinton and the daughter
supporting bernie sanders. explain where kids are coming down, the first-time voters out there, where this hits home for them and why they're interested in what sanders represents. >> i think that's the divide the sanders campaign is really looking at as something that could really benefit them. i actually asked erica garner that question. she said, i can't speak for my grandmother, but she identified very strongly with bernie sanders as a protester. of course, many of the people in the black lives matter movement identify with this idea that you're out in the streets every day, day in and day out. she talks about sanders' history along those lines. i think the question for the sanders campaign is going to be whether or not that's something that seems to resonate across the board. they know they'll have a struggle with older african-american women, so their opportunity is going to be with these young people. >> they spent more time in nevada than they have in south carolina so far. are they trying to show -- have a strong showing here or really take south carolina as a win? >> at this point they're more
focused on nevada because it's the next up contest, and their internal polling is showing that it's very close. polling nevada is very, very hard, but both sides acknowledge that race is really close. if they're able to pull out something in nevada, that puts a long period of time where hillary clinton has not shown a decisive win anywhere. they know on the flip side that south carolina is going to be tougher. they're definitely going to put in an effort here. they know he can't win a democratic nomination if he doesn't win support from more african-americans who athan are supporting him now, but their focus is mostly on nevada at this point. >> kasie hunt, thank you for being here. tre'maine is following the clinton campaign. tremaine, what played out in the civil rights direction? we don't have any direction, certainly from al, about any endorsements coming. >> both are vying for this critical black vote, and while
sanders has kind of excited so many young black people across the country, hillary clinton today met with the established leaders, reverend al sharpton, the head of the naacp, the head of the urban league to talk about their agenda around what they call the 21st century for jobs and freedom. they want to hear about voting rights and people in poverty. part of this was by the naacp. he said he wanted enlightenment and assurance. they said they wanted her to bolster the community. i expect we'll hear more about her plan in schaumburg and harlem, really addressing extended racism, rarely giving blacks an opportunity. >> thank you, sir.
appreciate it. there is still much more to come. when we return live, more of our broadcast here at the liberty tap room. we remain in columbia. this is our election headquarters. we have the head of the democratic party with me when he talks about what's next for the democrats. stay with us. i just wish one of those people could have been mrs. johnson. [dog bark] trust me, we're dealing with a higher intelligence here. ♪ the all-new audi q7 is here. ♪ or if you're young or old.are if you run everyday, no matter who you are a heart attack can happen without warning. if you've had a heart attack, a bayer aspirin regimen can help prevent another one. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin
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rival bernie sanders saying the forces that give rise to the tea party are now being seen in the democratic party. joining me is the chairman of the south carolina democratic party. it's so nice here in columbia with so many good people with their hospitality, and they love their politics. >> they do. >> you hear bill clinton there. do you agree with what's going on with the democratic party? is it akin to what the tea party is for the republicans? >> this is now like the nba finals in democratic politics. i think president clinton is like a pig in slop right now. he's enjoying the campaign feel and going at it. but right now it's just a friendly contest between two friends -- >> between two friends. oh, bless their hearts. >> two friends. >> the highest ranking democrat in south carolina said bernie sanders only started talking
about african-americans in the last 40 days, saying hillary clinton has done it in her record of 40 years of public service. do you really think that is what friends would have surrogates say about other friends? >> well, listen, it's friendly in the end because in the end of this process, we will either be saying bernie sanders or hillary clinton is a democratic nominee, and the entire party will be behind them. but, again, i would rather the friendly fire we have right now than the friendly fire that's going on in the republican party. that is world war iii. >> and we know that hillary clinton has only had two campaign offices, 14 full-time staffers in the state. bernie sanders, 10 offices, 240 staffers. from your stance of what's taking place here, do you think sanders is going to demonstrate a strength and not a win in south carolina, or do you think he can actually take this state away from hillary clinton? >> i've said this from the beginning. i think it is a very difficult
hill for senator sanders to climb here in south carolina, and it's partly because of the demographics and the performance in the past history. senator sanders has a very strong campaign here. but secretary clinton has been here for a while with her campaign staff and her apparatus. so in the end of the day, we've seen all the polls that have come out. i think secretary clinton is in a strong position, senator sanders is garnering some momentum. but at the end of the day, if you relook at the polls, it looks like secretary clinton still wins. >> when it comes down to congressman jim clapper. >> yes. >> he said he would take the weekend and think about potential endorsement. is it really edging on how close it is in nevada if congressman clyburn comes out with an endorsement? if hillary clinton looks weak and it's as tight as it is in the polling in nevada, would he
say, i'll give my endorsement early? >> the question is will congressman clyburn even endorse? >> come on, don't take it that far, will he even endorse. we know he's going to endorse. >> i don't know that. how do you know that? >> well, if history tells us anything, he has endorsed in the past. >> he hasn't endorsed in the past. >> not early before a primary. what i'm saying is if there is an indication of an endorsement coming, he's talked about giving an endorsement before a primary and he has said he would consider it this time around. that's why i said is it basedal? >> i don't know if he's going to endorse at this point. >> i believe you to a point, but i think clyburn is going to endorse, and i think the
calculus could be based on if senator sanders shows strongly in nevada, and there's a concern for vulnerability here in south carolina. >> i tell you what, thomas, as soon as i'm done, i'm going to get on the phone and call jim clyburn and say, thomas roberts just told me the calculus for your endorsement. is he correct or not? >> you can tell the congressman that. that's all right. i'll put it out there. jamie, great to have you with us. >> thank you, thomas. don't forget our poll question, is trump crossing the line in blaming bush for 9/11? we'll take a look at some of the results coming up in a moment. stick around. [vet] two yearly physicals down.
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i hear you because i was there when my dad suffered with diabetic nerve pain. if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you. you are watching msnbc. coming at you live from your campaign headquarters in columbia, south carolina. this hour it is game on in the 2016 presidential race, the campaign trail packed with nearly all of the republican candidates criss-crossing the state ahead of the critical primary four days from now, and it is a bare knuckle brawl for every single vote. a look there at where the candidates are. moments ago gop frontrunner
donald trump held a rally in north augusta, south carolina. he attacked ted cruz. >> he lies about everything. like i talk to you about obamacare, he'll say trump loves o obamacare. i hate obamacare. it's going to be terminated. i tell it everywhere. i am the strongest of the second amendment. >> but all eyes this hour will be devoted to democratic senator bernie sanders and hillary clinton holding dual events in different states as they battle for minority voters. sanders about to speak in palmetto at this hour. meanwhile, clinton 775 hours north in harlem, new york where any moment now she will be
delivering what is being billed as a major speech on race. that speech coming just hours after clinton sat down with african-american leaders, including the urban league's mark moriall, who will be joining me here in a moment. clinton trying to keep in her pocket a voting block essential to maintaining her sudden firewall against bernie sanders. >> my campaign is really about breaking every barrier, because i believe absolutely that america can't live up to its potential unless every single person has the chance to live up to theirs. >> again, hillary clinton there in new york city earlier today. we've got all the angles covered with our political a-team from south carolina to new york. we start in harlem. msnbc's pulitzer prize reporter tremendo
tremaine lee following hillary clinton's campaign. what do we believe hillary clinton will stay moments from now and how did that meeting go with african-american leaders? >> just moments from now hillary clinton will take the stage and we expect her to have kind of a broad range conversation on race, beyond just criminal justice reform. the country needs to really tackle systemic racism. systemic racism, you heard it coming from the black lives matter movement and other organizations and activists that have grown over the past few years, bordering institutional barriers of opportunity. earlier today in that meeting you mentioned where secretary clinton met with the leaders of the urban league and reverend al sharpton's network. i had a chance to speak to the head of the naacp right before that meeting. he said he was looking for enlightenment and assurance.
he's trying to decide who to throw his support behind, whether bernie sanders or hillary clinton. both will bolster the black community. that group earlier have formed what they call the 21st century agenda for freedom. they wanted to hear hillary clinton speak again about urban poverty and education. we weren't in that meeting because i don't know exactly if she delivered what they were looking for, but so many people here are packed in harlem trying to see what hillary clinton has to say. apparently what she will be speaking about, she plans to introduce a $2 billion plan to reform schools. also she's going to talk about, you know, eliminating disparity in how black boys in particular are treated in schools. so it's a big speech just moments from now. again, folks are here lined up and excited in harlem.
>> tremaine, stand by. i do want to talk a little about the timing of clinton's speech in harlem but i want to play for listeners a little bit more what hillary clinton said in new york city. take a listen. >> i'm not a single issue candidate. we don't live in a single issue country, and we have work to do. and that work can only be done in partnership with one another to advance the cause of civil and human rights and to, as you said, live up to the way of ideals in our country, which is exactly what our goal must be. >> so, tremaine, as you know, the caucus is in nevada this weekend, and next weekend here in south carolina. and, of course, much has been made of the minority vote in this state, roughly two-thirds of all primary voters in south carolina look like me and you. is that the impetus of the
speech? is that why we're hearing hillary clinton make this major speech on race? >> reporter: you have to think so as the bedrock of the obama coalition. who is going to get the most of this growing black vote? i think what's interesting is they're not just vying for the establishment, the black leadership, but it's this new kind of black leadership. both of those folks have offered, at least to some degree, their support behind sanders. while young people are excited around kind of the radical ideas of bernie sanders' poverty, how can hillary clinton establish that she's actually here and has a plan? so many folks here are waiting to hear her. >> tremaine lee in harlem as we
wait for hillary clinton's major speech on race there. when it happens, we will of course bring it to you live. thanks as always. for some reaction as to how clinton and how sanders are doing in their efforts to reach out to black voters, i want to bring in again mark moriall, president of the national urban league who met with secretary clinton a short time ago. also with me, bahaha. he joined me down the way at 25th and carlson. what did you say to her and what did she say to you? >> we shared the jobs and freedom. we promulgated a plan that covers criminal justice reform, police reform, health issues and voting issues. this is a comprehensive agenda we share today with secretary
clinton. we'll share it with every candidate who sits down with us. what it involves is detailed ideas, policy prescriptions and deal with many of the systemic challenges and issues that we face as a nation, particularly what african-americans and other communities of color face. so the meeting was really about what we shared with her and about a dialogue of our thinking. and around the table, you had leaders of organizations who literally represent tens of millions of people, and then there was an additional component to the meeting, and that was 40 of our emerging leaders who were under 40 leaders who are part of our organization. they had a separate meeting with her at the same time. >> mark, what was the secretary's response to the presentation? what did she say about what you presented? >> it was candid, it was frank, but i think she demonstrated a great deal of understanding, familiarity, an in-depth, i think, understanding of many of the issues, of the systemic
economic issues, criminal justice issues and issues related to gun violence in communities. it was frank, it was candid, but candidly, we did most of the presenting and most of the talking. she had an opportunity to dialogue with us. so what we are looking for is candidates who also have a good ear, who won't walk into a conversation with every answer and every prescription but are open to the kind of role we wanted to play. we've offered this conversation with every candidate, and we are hopeful that very soon we'll announce a time to meet with bernie sanders, and we've offered the same to all the republican candidates as well. >> you have met with bernie sanders in the past. as you know, eric garner's daughter, erica, has endorsed him. i want to play what she told my colleague kasie hunt earlier and talk about it on the other side. here it is.
>> this guy was a protester. >> reporter: so that's what it is to you, bernie sanders was a protester? >> yes, and he grew up in the same neighborhood i did. he put his body on the line and got arrested in the 1960s. he marched along with martin luther king, he stood with jesse jackson. basically he stood with black people when it wasn't popular. >> it almost sounds like she's saying that bernie sanders is blacker than hillary clinton. do you think that bernie sanders has made an honest, real attempt at reaching out to black voters? >> most definitely. we sat down and we actually got to discuss and talk about the political revolution having political equity within it, so that's not a top down for evolution, it's his campaign, but it's an evolution for the movement. for him he's not as patronizing
as hillary clinton is, patronizing being the kind of relationships which the naacp have with clinton. >> what makes you think hillary clinton is paternalistic? >> in the way she addresses the movement. she wants to tell them what to do and how to do it. i remember martin luther king's quote that some moderns prefer order rather than the positive preservation of justice. for her, we're not representing a way forward. our agenda is not good enough, so she skips over us and goes to the establishment which is the naacp and the urban leagues which allowed mass incarceration to happen on their watch. they do not speak for black america. there is a youth movement. we are in the streets, we are not apathetic, and we will vote, but we're not being heard and she is not interesting in speaking to our agenda of eliminating the exemption clause in the 13th amendment in finally
maki making it legal, and keeping tabs on the way white people manifest politically and socially as it reproduces itself over and over again. i am the server of someone who benefited from action. we have people who are not benefiting from mass incarceration. that's a huge chasm, a huge thing within the black community that is not spoken about. >> i'm going to reject the idea of division dividing the black community between various ages. because today we had 30 people under the age of 40 in the national urban league, the naacp, the national action network were protesting 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 30 years ago, 20 years ago before this most recent, if you will, set of race. so what we need to do is talk
about what the community needs and not turn an election contest between bernie sanders and hillary clinton into some sort of internal battle within the community. i'm going to reject that and say the african-american community, like every community, is not monolithic, but we want to have a positive conversation, not a theoretical conversation, about who can lead the nation and who would make the best, if you will, general election candidate. >> we'll have to finish this conversation at some other point, but thank you both for your time. mark, it's nice to see you from the urban league. and to you from black lives matter. msnbc and telemundo will be holding a town hall with bernie sanders and hillary clinton. that's this thursday, 9:00 eastern right here on msnbc. now to the republican race. donald trump crowing again about his place in the polls.
a new on-line poll from nbc news and its partner surveymonkey shows he's increasing his national lead. see his numbers up there? up three points. a new poll shows donald trump may carry a double digit lead into this weekend's primary. donald adding fuel to the conspiracy theory of antonin scalia's death. a former d.c. homicide commander is now questioning how the investigation has been handled, saying he's stunned there was no autopsy. the man who found scalia's body told a san antonio newspaper he found the judge with a pillow over his head. on the radio show, savagenation, today asked trump if he thought justice scalia had been murdered. this is what donald trump said about that. >> they say they found a pillow
on his face, which is a pretty unusual place to find a pillow. i can't give you an answer. usually i like to give you answers, but i literally just heard it a little while ago. >> we should note here that authorities say scalia died of natural causes. i want to bring in my friend and colleague kerry sanders. he is about an hour southwest of us in north augusta, the site of that donald trump rally last hour. folks are still there, huh? >> o >> reporter: oh, yes. well, donald trump is right over there. as we take a look over there, you can see everybody holding up their cell phones, people hoping to get an autograph, donald trump taking time to do that. andy is over here. andy, what did you hear on this hour-long speech that convinced you that donald trump is your man? >> well, i was convinced before, but i'm a veteran. i'm for a strong military.
i want to see the budget balanced and i want the wall built. >> you want the wall built because you believe what? >> i believe immigration is over this country. >> what industry did you work in, sir? >> i was working in the construction industry. >> the construction industry, as you know, different people to build. i'm not saying that illegal immigration is right or wrong, i'm simply asking the question, can this country continue to show the way. we're strong, we're devout christians, we're americans and we believe in a strong america. >> thank you very much, andy. i appreciate it. there was one moment here today that was really interesting. just about every rally that
there is with donald trump, there is occasionally a protester, someone who gets up there and starts making a mess. donald trump's campaign tells the supporters to get around them and just say the name "trump, trump, trump." well, it kind of got a little ugly as there was pushing and shoving. some of that pushing and shoving was caught on cell phone video, but then afterwards -- and this is really kind of a sign of donald trump's confidence -- he told those two people, those two men, to come up on stage here and talk. they had no problem stepping right to the podium and endorsing, just two supporters out here endorsing donald trump, saying that he is their man. i think it says a lot. candidates know it's difficult to just invite somebody up there, give them the microphone and let them go. >> kerry, really quickly, i see two ladies behind you that i don't typically see at donald trump rallies. they're two young african-american women at this.
can we just ask one of them about the trump appeal? >> reporter: what was it about donald trump that had you come here? >> i just wanted to see everything he had to say because this is my first year being able to vote, and i just wanted to hear everything he had to say so i know what candidate i want to vote for. >> your name is jackson, walenda jackson. i'm just curious, how old are you? >> i'm 18. >> reporter: so this is your first time voting? >> yes, sir. >> reporter: it's obvious to us as we go from campaign stop to campaign stop, we don't see a lot of african-americans. i'm not saying there aren't any, but we don't see a lot. did donald trump say anything that speaks to your heart? >> not really. not really. >> reporter: so in this state you can vote in either the republican or democratic primary. have you decided yet, or are you still deciding how you're going to vote? >> i don't think i'm going to pick a particular party that i'm going to vote for.
i'm just going to vote for whoever has the best things for america. >> thank you very much for joining us. your first vote is an important one and you'll never forget it. good luck making that decision. she's the one that shot video there of the actual, kind of scopeish, something that really caught her eye as she got her phone out. i met a lot of people here who said they're in the process of still making a decision. >> kerry sanders, always good to see you. an 18-year-old at a political rally around 3:30 on a tuesday afternoon. thank you, kerry. we'll come back to you a little bit later. some exciting news to pass to you right now. nbc is holding an hour-long town hall with donald trump here in south carolina. it will be hosted wi joe scarborough and mika tomorrow. that will follow chris matthews'
one on one interview with. let's take a look at a ted cruz rally. this is a ted cruz rally not far from here, actually. this is just down the road from us here in columbia. very different from that speech we saw aboard the u.s.s.yorktown earlier today. with him at this particular rally, former presidential candidate, former texas governor appearing. also congressman jeff duncan is there as well. ted cruz has not taken the stage just yet. nbc's hallie jackson is in the house. she's been following. >> we're in d.c. today, craig. a little baby break as we head
toward south carolina all week long. you mentioned where he rolled out his policy to build the military. he has a rally tomorrow, i believe, out in spartanburg. this is all ted cruz's strategy to build up momentum for himself in this very important state for him, doing well in those scc primary shapes is sort of the point. you mentioned he's out. you can see his events there. notice he is out with governor perry. i've spoken with governor perry when he's been on the road with ted cruz, and he's talked about the need to coalesce around someone who is a conservative like ted cruz. cruz has been out there not just
hitting donald trump, alluding to him being unstable, alluding to him being angry. he's also exhibiting marco rubio. . rubio is going right after him as well. we've gone from this sort of end of the bromance between trump and cruz to a full-fledged top tier in south carolina, correct? >> we saw governor perry take the stage. this is a stone's throw from where we are in downtown columbia. ted cruz prepared to take the stage. we'll keep an eye on that. one word you're hearing a lot of about this weekend's contests, you will in firewall there.
they were. she said to be a firewall for jeb bush. however, the rise of bernie sanders. take a listen what trump said earlier. >> bush comes out and he goes, i don't think donald trump can beat hillary clinton, but i can. and i said, why aren't you beating me? why aren't you beating me? >> donald trump also appeared at noon. that was sort of a new impression of jeb bush. that was a little different than the usual impression we get of jeb bush. michael steele is an msnbc political analyst, also former republican chairman bill richardson, former.
michael, let me show everybody at home this graphic. i'll talk about what we're seeing here. this is a look at the firewall from the previous two bushes. they won big in south carolina. after those wins, they mostly swept the southern premise. george bush 49%. nobody believes jeb bush will come anywhere near that on saturday here. what does jeb bush need to do here in south carolina to keep the campaign together? >> he's got a lot of work to do. it sdep to have the former president george w. bausch the ground with him with laura, because there is a lot of respect south carolinans have for the bush family. so that can hopefully generate some energy. the polls reflect a moment in
time, not necessarily an outcome. there is still running room for jeb to sort of move up into that third spot which is really, i think, be critical for h. so there is a lot of work on the ground. >> here's the thing. i've talked to a lot of voters here. as you mentioned, a lot of republican voters still have an infiniti for george w. bush. how much is that going to hurt him ultimately? if we look down the road four or five months from now, jeb bush is not the nominee. is that. >> before you get to tea party,
that kind of rankled the file of the bush administration. you had medicare part d. if beating this drum beats for engagement in the milgd east, they weren't necessarily down to all of this ram and ron, to make an oorg umt. . . >> that combination of the name and his disqualifiers for bush really hurt. >> bill, let's talk about hillary clinton and her nevada firewall. not long ago her campaign was talking about a double-digit lead. now, based on some of the headlines that we're seeing, based on some of the headlines you're seeing as well, they're
implying that nevada has a larger white electorate that could be more favorable to sa sanders. it seems as though they're already starting to lower the expectations bar just a bit. did hillary clinton look pan tas south carolina, bill? >> no, i think south carolina and nevada are the two states that look like america. weather area voters, they're more union voters, et cetera, i'd like to think. the clintons have been stre strong with ed indication. i think those polls. with issues affecting minorities like what she's doing in harlem, criminal justice, education.
with latinos it's immigration reform. i was in the new candidate. i remember bill clinton appointed four or six? so that i still think there will be a firewall. >> you mentioned bill clinton. how much do you think he's actually helping out snl. >> he's helping. look, he's very popular. every time somebody sees clinton, they think of the economic prosperity of the clinton years. >> thep -- they remember the big things about him. >> we'll leave it there. thanks to both of you. i know we'll be seeing a lot more of you the next few days,
so thank you. two events that we continue to watch right now. let's put them up on your screen here. left side of your screen, i believe they have it for us right now, 2 events we're watching. that's down in low country about an hour and a half away. meanwhile, on the right side of your screen, roughly 12 hours from where we sit. we have a race in harlem and greenville. we'll be back. >> in other words, you had a terrorist siege on the city. that's what it was. yet people with kproerz and fought back to the demand that all americans have the right to vote. [ cheers and applause ] know you have insights
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we turn now to the battle of the supreme court vacancy caused by the sudden death of justice antonin scalia. president obama will be holding a news conference at 4:30 eastern. that's roughly an hour from now. he is expected to be asked about a possible appointment to the court. at this point we have not heard who is on that short list. the president has said that he will be fulfilling his constitutional responsibilities in nominating a justice. nbc's justice correspondent pete williams joining me now from d.c. i understand you also have some new information about the funeral plans for justice scalia. >> well, certainly about a public event that will be happening on friday in the supreme court's great hall. and the picture you just saw of the outside of the supreme court building, you see those marble steps that lead up to the bronze doors. just inside of that is the supreme court's great hall, and that's where justice scalia's casket will lie in repose, is
the term, in the great hall on friday, and that will be open to the public. people can file through and pay their respects from 10:30 on friday morning until 8:00 that night. there will be a private ceremony at the court an hour before that for court officials, court employees, members of the family. and then we're told that the funeral will follow the next day in washington at the shrine of the immaculate conception. that's the massive catholic cathedral just at the edge of washington. it's where the pope was here this summer, one of the places where he said mass. in terms of the ceremony of lying in repose, justice scalia was actually the escort for the president, president george w. bush and mrs. bush when they came in 2005 when the casket of the former chief justice william renquist lay in repose in the court. also the court displayed
photographs of a 100-year-old tradition of putting black drapery around the seat of where justice scalia sat in the court, on his chair as well as a bench up front. the middle chair is occupied by the chief justice who automatically has the most seniority. because justice scalia was the longest serving on this court, his seat was just to the right in keeping with this centuries-old tradition at the court. >> pete williams, thank you so much for that update, sir. >> you bet. much, much more still ahead this hour from the liberty tap room in vista, south carolina. marco rubio looking for a reboot here in south carolina. can he find footing after that disappointing showing in new hampshire, that abysmal debate
performance. gabe gutierrez will join me from the trail next. first, though, let's listen in to some of ted cruz speaking just a short distance from where we are in columbia. >> had decreased to 272, the lowest since 1970. we're going to rebuild our navy with a minimum of 350 ships so that we can project power across the globe. [ applause ] eded. eded. our amex helped us fill the orders. just like that. another step on the journey. will you be ready when growth presents itself? realize your buying power at open.com and i didn't get here alone.
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i'm here 24 hours after attacking the bush family in a lengthy press conference. not far from there jeb bush is in three separate events throughout the state today. two town halls have a forum he'll be holding as well. peter alexander just wrapped up on a one-on-one interview with the candidate. more on that in just a moment. also, marco rubio has three events today. rubio appears to be recovering from that widely panned debate performance a few weeks ago. rubio is going to be in somerville, buford and along the grand strand as well. gabe gutierrez is chatting with the rubio campaign in somerville. gabe, good day. >> reporter: excuse me, craig. hi there. marco rubio just wrapped up this rally here in somerville and he is planning a rally this evening in north myrtle beach. but his campaign has been more
aggressive. in his stump speech this afternoon, he took on donald trump, though he didn't mention him by name, saying building a hotel did not constitute foreign policy experience, and that he, marco rubio, would not embarrass the country as president. this marks a departure from what we saw in new hampshire where he was hesitant to take on any of the republican candidates. right now he's also going after ted cruz on issues like immigration and national security. take a look at what marco rubio told reporters today. >> in the end we have a loft wo -- lot of work to do, okay? because barack obama, at risk of repeating myself, knows exactly what he's doing. he knows exactly what he's doing, okay? >> reporter: and that was a different sound bite than we were planning when he was talking about ted cruz. right there he was joking with the crowd, and that's something we've seen quite a bit over the
last few days. marco rubio has seen less scripted and more relaxed, even playing off that poorly widely panned debate performance in new hampshire where he repeated that line several times. now he's using it as a laugh line. we spoke with several voters who said they are considering between him and several other candidates. let's take a listen to what they had to say. >> he seems less aggressive. i think that he is not totally bashing our current president. i like that. >> he's a good republican, good conservative, he's got a good track record, presidential, strong on national security, which is really, really important to me. >> reporter: and that is the central argument that marco rubio is trying to make, that he is best positioned to take on the democrats, that he's strong on national security, although his opponents say he lacks experience. but something voters we have
talked to say, that they feel he might be the candidate that could best unify the parties. some of these voters at these rallies say they're uncomfortable with donald trump and ted cruz. they feel both are too polarizing. at this point some are considering marco rubio. the question is, how strong can he finish here in south carolina before he moves on to nevada? craig, back to you. >> gabe gutierrez in somerville. thanks to you. nbc's peter alexander just wrapped up a one-on-one interview with jeb bush. peter, what can you tell us? >> reporter: standing with jeb bush's bus at the last hotel as he plans to move on to the next location. we talked with him one on one on the bus where he said his frontrunner status was given to him too early, understandably why, because of the bush
history. some of the insults by donald trump, he does recognize he has to do what he believes is right. he said it's only strengthened his resolve in the course of this campaign. what else was striking to me i asked him what states going forward he was confident he would win. he wasn't able to name one state after that. they recognize the need to come ahead of marco rubio and others to best position themselves as the anti-trump, anti-cruz candidate. here's more of our conversation with governor jeb bush. do you think that your brot