tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC February 17, 2016 7:00pm-8:01pm PST
9:00 to 11:00 p.m. eastern with hillary clinton and bernie sanders. it's going to be so good. we'll get all the sleep we need next year. i swear. you can bank it like that. we should not sleep at all in 2016. that does it for us tonight. now it's time for the last word with lawrence. >> you got anything coming up that's interesting? >> yeah. >> you're not a hurry to get out of here, are you? >> everything is fine. >> the plane will wait for you. >> do you bank sleep? are you guy who gets regular sleep or do you need sleep for a week? >> my entire life has been spent monitoring my energy level mostly in full recline to make sure that i'm ready for this moment right here. >> i'm going to stay up until december. you should wake me in february. >> all right. we will try that. we have a winner.
it is all over. donald trump has won the title of king of the frivolous lawsuit. >> mr. trump is apparently very unhappy with a television ad we're running. >> be i'm very pro-choice. >> if you want to file a lawsuit challenging this ad claiming it is deformation, file the lawsuit. >> i don't know that we're doing to have a lawsuit, but we want to keep somebody honest. >> because his position is anyone who points to his record is somehow lying. >> cruz does lie. i've never seen anything quite like it. >> ted has proven that he's willing to do or say anything to get elected. >> if we elect marco rubio every day will be a great day in america. >> jeb is a sad case. it's sad. >> there you go again. >> it's all decided. we don't have to go vote i guess. it's finished. i should stop campaigning. >> i hit jeb because he's easy
to hit. >> i'm not going to try to get in the mind of donald trump. >> this guy lindsey graham is one of the dumbest guy i've ever seen. >> we would get slaughtered if donald trump is our nominee and we would deserve it. >> the republican presidential campaign has a new front-runner for most ridiculous lawyer in the world, jeffry l. goldman actually wrote a letter to the cruz for president campaign that begins with i am counsel to donald trump. the cruz campaign provided us with a copy of that letter and in it donald trump's lawyer complains about an attack ad and says the cruz campaign does not stop running that ad, quote, we will seek immediate legal action to prevent the continued broadcast of the attack ad and hold you jointly liable to the
fullest extent of the law for any damages resulting there from and we'll look forward to doing it. i'm sure by now like me you're all looking forward to seeing the attack ad that donald trump's lawyer says is the very
definition of liable. >> life, marriage, religious liberty, the second amendment, we're just one supreme court justice away from losing them all. >> would president trump ban partial birth abortion? >> i'm very prochoice. >> but you would not ban it? >> no, i am -- i am pro-choice in every respect. >> we cannot trust donald trump with these serious decisions. >> donald trump's lawyer must have over slept that day when they talked about liable law in law school. ted cruz urged donald trump to file a deformation suit against him. >> if donald trump files the lawsuit that he threatens in
this letter, that lawsuit will be frivolous and it will result in both donald trump and any lawyer that signs his name to the pleadings being sapgsed in court. >> ted cruz is like so totally right about that and i don't think i've ever said that sentence before, but this time -- this time ted cruz is right. ted cruz will keep running the ad and i will try to run the ad as much as i possibly can on this program and jeffry lrchl. goldman will not dare to file a lawsuit against ted cruz or me because they definitely would be sanctioned. they definitely would be fined for filing the most frivolous lawsuit that donald trump has ever forced one of his lawyers to threaten in writing thereby making the trump lawyer the laughing stock of america. tonight donald trump sounded as
if he now realizes that ted cruz is a smarter lawyer than the guy donald trump is paying to write his phoney letters. >> i don't know that we're going to street a lawsuit, but we want to keep somebody honest. when he makes statements like about i'm pro-life and he said he's not, he can't say that. >> the worst news of the day for the trump campaign came in the latest poll of republican voters that shows donald trump in a tie within the margin of error with ted cruz who is at the top of that poll at 28%, donald trump at 26% nationally. marco rubio 17%, john kasich 11%, jeb bush down at the bottom with 4%. joining us now alex and joe joining us tonight from south carolina. alex, i don't know who your lawyer is -- >> i have a team of lawyers. >> i can tell you who it
shouldn't be. >> that guy. >> that guy. it's just -- >> what was interesting in that interview as you point out is that donald trump seems to be walking away from the prospect and it's maybe because he's realized that the longer donald trump talks about this ted cruz ad the more people go and google the ted cruz ad and look at the footage of donald trump speaking out a pro-choice position on reproductive rights. >> i get to play it. >> when it's necessarily that relevant you can keep playing it because it's part of the part of trump is to keep launching these kind of sal vows thinking he has immunity. maybe this is one where he doesn't. >> here is the part where i'm cheering for trump to file the lawsuit because ted cruz said today what he would do if trump does actually file a lawsuit and we want this to happen, let's run this what ted cruz said he would do. >> one of the things i look forward to most of all is
deposing donald trump. for that particular endeavor, i may well not use outside counsel, i may take the deposition myself. and i will say this, whether in a deposition or a court of law getting donald trump under oath under penalty of perjury answering these questions, i'll point out it didn't work out very well for bill clinton. >> joe, that deposition would be videotaped and i'm sure the cruz campaign would find a way to leak it in our direction or anyone's direction. we're never going to see that because trump is going to back out of this, but how crazy is this playing in south carolina that the republican front-runner in that state threatening a lawsuit about a tv ad that everybody in south carolina has seen, how are they reacting to this? >> it's kind of brilliant in its
own way because we're talking about this utter nonsense that is never going to happen and we're not talked about the fact that the guy -- donald trump simply doesn't know anything about public policy. he is -- he has a terrible temperament to be a president. on issue after issue after issue he proved that he didn't know anything. early today i saw him at another forum upstate and he was asked how he would strengthen the military, specifically? how specifically will you strengthen the military? it's going to be stronger than anything and he gets away with that crap. tonight he shows he didn't know the difference between medicaid and medicare. tonight he showed that he didn't know that the east asia trade deal doesn't include china, but it includes the other countries in the region that we want to
strengthen against china. on issue after issue after issue the guy doesn't know anything and we're letting him get away with it. >> that is a great point that trump talking about a lawsuit is better for trump than trying to actually talk about public policy, which i've said before he's an utter ignorant. >> trump is playing to his base and his base is incredibly resilient. it doesn't matter to them and he knows that and his success in the media -- his success is predicated for their desire for him and as long as they desire him he continues to be a figure in the media and a major player on the national stage. it doesn't matter if the media tries to fact check him. none of it matters to the people who support him. >> i want to show an example of what you were talking about. this is donald trump saying absolutely nothing about health care in america, although he
does string a few sentences together in this area. let's listen to it. >> we can't let people die in the streets. we have to work out a deal with the hospital or somebody in that community where if somebody is sick and really sick and they don't have housing and they don't have -- we can't let them die. >> so all americans will get health care of some sort. >> we have to take care of them. >> we're going to take care of them. >> it's idiotsy. we have a program to take care of those people, medicaid. in the sentence before the one we saw he talked about medicare handling it. medicare is health care for the elderly. medicaid is health care for the indigent, obamacare is health care for the working poor. he has absolutely no idea that those three things are true and part of a significant part of american public policy. >> if you look at the transcript of that interview, it is
literally a string of extreme super lives. when he is pressed on any specific policy it's it's going to be the best because the other thing is the worst and that's enough to continue his role in this race. >> joe, what's your assessment having watched more campaigns than any of us about how the media is doing in its job of handling the problem of dealing with donald trump? >> i think it's a real embarrassme embarrassment. it's probably the most embarrassing coverage of a candidate that i've seen in my 11 got help me presidential campaigns. first of all, we're watching him like crazy because he boosts ratings, second of all we're not doing our job when he says something like people who are dying in the streets, nobody says to him, but wait a second, isn't there medicaid to take
care of that? it really is malfeasance of the worst sort and i think in some cases it is -- it's for most wrong reasons for ratings. >> i agree with joe that there should be a lot more push back and details asked for. if for example someone asked donald trump a follow up question that mattered i'm not sure it would make any difference to donald trump or the people that support him if he was wrong on that issue. >> we may never find out because that the phenomenon doesn't happen, he goes into a string of words that overwhelms the interviewers and they can't figure it out. >> you know what i'd like to see, i'd like to see people journalists ask him a question about something he actually knows about, which is reality tv. mr. trump, how do you think kim is handling her campaign -- her image these days and just to see whether he'd actually answer it
because -- or whether he'd say that's not a question for a president. i think he'd answer it. >> all right. going to take a quick break here. coming up a new national poll shows hillary clinton and bernie sanders in a tie nationally and a poll of what the voters want the senate to do about president obama's next nomination to the supreme court. i take pictures of sunrises, but with my back pain i couldn't sleep and get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.
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if you have diabetes and burning, shooting pain in your feet or hands, don't suffer in silence! step on up and ask your doctor about diabetic nerve pain. tell 'em cedric sent you. >> we say that every day is a great day in south carolina. ladies and gentlemen, if we eelect marco rubio every day will be a great day in america. help me welcome the president of the united states, let's go to the polls on saturday and move that down the way. marco rubio! >> that's nikki haley giving the prized endorsement saying if we elect marco rubio, quote, every day will be a great day in
america. alex wagoner it's a good thing she didn't oversell this rubio era where every day will be a great day. >> and recess will be an hour longer. president obama had a good point in his press conference which is that we've been paying so much attention to trump that we haven't focus in had on the rest of the field. i think nikki haley is sort of belies that transformation too because she appears to be a moderate southern republican governor who is all about the establishment, but if you unpacked marco rubio's comments and the positions he's staked out since this race began, he's very far away from nikki haley and what she represents. >> will her endorsement matter? >> it may matter a little bit. a couple of points here in south carolina, but i couldn't help thinking what a great ticket that would be a rubio, haley
ticket especially because she is known now in minority communities across the country as the person who insisted on pulling down the confederate flag. >> let's look at how donald trump is benefitting by having a big field, what happens to him if it goes down to a one on one fight for the nomination. let's look at this poll. when is late in the latest poll nationally ted cruz versus donald trump ted cruz destroys him, 56-40. just wipes him out. if you put marco rubio one on one against donald trump, he wipes him out, 57 for marco rubio, 41 for donald trump. if you put jeb bush against donald trump, donald trump at the moment anyway comes out ahead of jeb bush, 54-43.
if you put donald trump with john kasich, he comes out ahead in this poll, 52-44, but alex it shows you what's happening. this is the product of a field. >> kasich is basically sort of seen as dead man walking. if he be can do that well, it might -- my sense is that the republican establishment, if they have power still within the part party, should train its sights to the establishment candidates and say we have to consolidate. we are at the crisis point. kasich, you got to bow out. cruz, marco, it's two men enter one man leaves. >> joe, could that happen? >> well, the person i'm looking at right now is jeb bush. i mean that is the most interesting evolving story in
south carolina this week because ever since his brother came to town he's been looking kind of hang dog and saying things like maybe i should stop campaigning. he -- it really looks like he knows that the writing is on the wall. i think the kasich probably wants to stick around to play in michigan on the 8th and that will be his last stand on the 8th of march, but, boy, jeb bush came into this thing as the flat-out favorite to win this nomination and i think the thing that's killing him that i hear from people is he's just one bush too many. >> and alex, the irony might be if the national poll holds up and donald trump has hit something of a collapse in his numbers, it may be because of what he said in that debate, the post debate poll and it has donald trump talking about how
george w. bush lied us into war, that whole line of argument, it may be that the trump attack against bush ended up undoing trump. >> maybe. i mean, i will say i'm shocked that it is donald trump that has brought the conversation to the republican party about the legacy of george w. bush. i mean i do think that trump understands this in a way that everyone else doesn't and understands their frustration and their sense of if you tilt in terms of our engagement in the middle east and he's tapping into that. whether the assertion that bush lied and people died, which has hurt on the far ends of the instruct rum, whether that proves a bridge too far remains to be seen, but there is a vein of frustration and failure that trump is tapping into that is still powerful in certain sectors of the republican base. >> let's listen to what donald
trump said about nikki haley tonight. >> you know, nikki haley gave a speech a couple of weeks ago and she said that we, we, yeah, it's not good -- first of all, she's very weak on illegal immigration. she's very weak on illegal immigration. you can't have that. >> joe, nikki haley's approval number is something like 68%, but in a trump crowd she gets boos. >> i thought it was 80%. >> it could be. >> she's really, really popular here. the thing about trump is this, it's one of the most telling moments tonight was when she started listing a list of characteristics that a certain person had and it was clear to me and anybody who had a modest political i.q. that she was
describing bernie sanders and she then asked him who is this candidate that i'm describing and he said it sounds like donald trump. he didn't get it. i mean, this is a guy who does not exist outside of his own brain. and if nikki haley endorses another candidate, even though she has 80% approval, he's going go after her because that is the only thing he knows. >> thank you both for joining me tonight. up next, it is now a tie between hillary clinton and bernie sanders nationally. that's next. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪
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comcast business. built for business. a new national poll shows bernie sanders has closed the gap with hillary clinton. they are in a tie within the marnlen of era with hillary clinton at 44% and bernie sanders at 42%. this duplicated a result that a national poll reported two weeks ago. bernie sanders has also closed the gap with hillary clinton in nevada. they're tied within the margin of era with hillary clinton at 48% and bernie sanders with 47%. hillary clinton is maintaining herb lead in most of the states that vote after nevada. she's leading bernie sanders in ten of the 12 states holding
democratic prime areas march 1st through march 8th. bernie sanders is ahead in vermont and massachusetts and they're tied within the margin of era in oklahoma where hillary clinton has 46% to bernie sanders 42%. joining us now columnist with the daily beast and political analyst and editor of the washington post and an msnbc contributor. jonathan this came out a couple of weeks ago when we were in new hampshire with this apparent national tie which was kind of shocking. they've now duplicated the results. this is starting to be real that we're heading into a national tie with these candidates. >> i saw in new hampshire the people who do this poll, it's a very reputable poll. there's a lot of polls out there that are crap. it's something that the clinton
campaign has to take seriously. two other things working in sanders behalf, one is momentum. things are moving in the right direction for him. he's picking up support and that's critical in politics especially in combination with the expectations game. so the expectations have gotten away from clinton, this firewall business about south carolina and african-american voters has now kind of implanted itself in the metal alt of the people who follow politics. so if there's erosion, if she -- let's say she loses nevada and i think there's a decent chance that could happen, then let's say she wins south carolina by a much smaller margin than expected, then she could have a rough time on super tuesday. >> sam, the latest south carolina poll shows hillary clinton 56%, bernie sanders at 38%. that's a closing of what used to be a much bigger gap there. how is victory going to be
described in south carolina? what do the margins have to be? >> i have no idea. it depends -- it depends how it looks when it gets closer to it, but in addition to the expectations that jonathan was talking about which do matter in terms of gathering momentum and involves getting support from other officials, there is the question of delegates. this is ultimately a nomination that's decided at the convention by a delegate. all this can turn. you do have to wonder at what point does sanders make a significant -- make up a significant chunk of math that he needs to get the nomination. hillary clinton will have a huge leg up because she has super delegates in her corner who are the party members who get a voting say in this, so there is that math mattics that works in her favor and still if you talk to most democratic operatives in this town still makes her the favorite. >> the thing about momentum is
that if you're in the lead as hillary clinton has been, you want the vote today. you want -- because momentum -- the longer this goes on the more bernie sanders has
a chance to make up ground and when you look at the giant delegate wins that exist in the california primary, the new jersey primary that don't happen until june, bernie sanders has all the time in the world to capture california. >> and the other thing is he's going to have money. normally people drop out when they run out of cash and he has cracked the code as barack obama did on online fundraising. he's matching her dollar for dollar and some states he's outspending her. in some states he's open more offices than hillary clinton. so i guess i would disagree with sam in that i think hillary is still the favorite. >> i certainly -- she was a probative favorite several months ago, certainly at the
beginning of 2015, she was polling the way favorites do, way up in the 60s at least against anyone. even in new hampshire she was way up in the 60s, bernie sanders was at 13. that looked prohibitive, but time changes those numbers for her. >> the money thing can't -- can't be under stated here or overstated i should say. when he won in new hampshire, one of the cleverer things he said is my opponent is going do a fundraiser in new york, i want do a fundraiser right now. why don't you go online and donate $27. i believe in the next 24 hours they raised $6 million. it's not what barack obama did, but it was close do that. >> he's ahead of obama. >> i'm talking about in all of obama's campaigns i think his best day was $10 million.
the biggest thing that sanders has going for him is that his donors have not tapped out. these are people that can still give more. he can sustain this and continue to grow. in talking to people in this town they are still confident in clinton. but the money is on her, whether they're foolish or not who knows. >> absolutely. when you look at those earlier voting states she still has the lead in most of those earlier voting states. those are current polls. so the national numbers not flug so strongly these states that are going to be voting soon. >> national numbers don't mean a lot right now and sanders has his own challenges. he has to broaden his message. he sounds like a broken record sometimes on these economic issues, which are very, very important, but not to the exconclusion of other things and he has to show more influence
ensy on other things if he's going to turn this into a real contest. >> a quick break
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republican presidential candidates you unanimously agree that the senate should not confirm a new supreme court justice until the president no, ma'am nalts one. a new poll is saying what the voters want to hear. 81% of republicans say they want to leave the position vacant for the next president and 81% of democrats say they want the senate to act this year. back with us, jonathan alter and sam stien. that looks like a plul standoff if you're actually thinking about is there a way to get someone confirmed, one of the names that started to flow a little bit in the last 24 hours
is nevada's republican governor. he's pro-choice, jonathan. he's 52 years old and if he was nominated what would happen? >> the first thing to understand is that barack obama got into national politics wanting to see past party. we did a cover story on him in news week it was called seeing purple. that was his whole point at the 2004 convention. it's not crazy that he would nominate a certain kind of republican, especially if he found he was on the right side of citizens united and some other key issues that are of importance like abortion. what it would do is you would already get one vote, dean heller, a republican senator. he's indicated that he would support a nomination. you would only need three more to have a 50/50 tie which joe
bidden would break to get the nominee confirmed, if you could get republicans to agree not to filibuster, but it's more do able than it was 48 hours ago because the chairman has now indicated that he might likely hold hearings on the nominee. >> i think we're missing a points here though. there is no way that any sane republican who has a hope of a future in the party would agree to be barack obama's supreme court nominee. there's no quicker way to tar your reputation to do that. you could ask -- >> it's a lifetime appointment. if he goes on the court, he doesn't have to worry about his political future. >> true. that's true. >> why would he do that? >> he wants a future in presidential politics. >> it's a pretty great job. >> but he does not have a future in presidential politics in his
party because he's pro-choice. >> he's the presidential nominee. >> he's pro-choice. >> he doesn't have any future there. >> he can't. >> let's talk about another interesting theory that was suggested today by my neighborhood newspaper in boston, and this is inspired by george mitchell being on this program last night and talking about this very subject, and they suggested in an editorial today what about george mitchell, he's 82 years old and in his editorial he says his credentials for the job are impeckable he could serve ably. he was offered the supreme court by bill clinton and turned it down and because of his age the next president would very likely have a chance to choose a successor to possible justice mitchell. what do you think? >> well, you know, i agree that george mitchell is one of the great americans of our time, he
would have been an outstanding president of the united states, he would be great on the supreme court as a former judge, but this isn't going to happen because in the modern era presidents don't nominate anybody over 60 really. >> but the theory of this is this is the point because he's 82 he will serve a few years and then retire and then you'll have an opening. >> why would you necessarily bet on there being a democratic president if you're barack obama, you want to get somebody through that's going to be on the court for a long time. >> but they would be doing here is saying in effect to the republicans, look, if you guys think you're going to win the white house next time you will have a chance to replace justice mitchell in this saet. >> it's a fairly grim deal they're making is that george mitchell will croak or step down. >> most justices retire before
that happens. >> is he committed to retiring? >> he'd have to commit to retiring, right. >> maybe. i think in this situation d-- >> my colleague is obama nominates himself and the reason it works out because if there's anything republicans want more than to not replace supreme court it's to get obama out of the white house. >> can i make the case for loretta lynch. >> i agree. >> i think a lot of people are getting this now, but obama got a huge percentage of the black vote in 2008 and 2012. hillary is not likely to reach those levels. she needs he to get not just a strong majority of the black vote, she needs really big black turn out if she's going to win. she might not get it. if loretta lynch is essentially on the ballot with her, a face that everybody by that time knows that the republicans have
been obstructsing, somebody who is clearly qualified to be on the supreme court, that will help her drive turn out in the 2016 election. >> she is a constitutional officer, she holds a position established by the constitution, attorney general, she's confirmed by this senate. they're argument about why they wouldn't confirm her for this i don't think any reasonable voter would accept. we're out of time on this. thank you both for joining us. coming up, steph. ♪ ♪ (vo) making the most out of every mile. that's why i got a subaru impreza. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.
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>> something extraordinary happened on the stephen colbert show last night. he got donald trump to admit if he becomes president he not be all powerful. >> if it was the last year of your presidency and you had a vacancy to fill in the supreme court would you allow the senate to tell you not to do it. >> if i were president regardless much who that may be, i would put in a name but the senate has the right not do it, not to vote on it. >> so you would let someone tell you what to do? this is sounding less like donald trump every -- >> no, i would push. if i were the president i would be pushing and whether i was republican or democrat i'd be pushing, but the senate does have a lot of power over that. they have a right to do it. they have a pretty daunting right so it should not happen. it should be whoever the next president is should be the one that picks the next supreme
court justice. >> donald trump was never going to admit to his voters that the senate has a lot of power over the president, including veto power over anyone, over any position that requires senate confirmation, but he had to admit it because donald trump is following the republican party line that the republican senate should not confirm anyone president obama nominates for the supreme court. so donald trump has admitted that the united states senate has more power than the president of the united states in many situations, but he still refuses to admit that the president of the united states does not have complete power over the mexican senate and that he will have a problem convincing the mexican senate to pay for the trump wall on the mexican boarder. coming up, as news week said seven years ago, we are all socialists now. s lloyd. to prove to you that the better choice for him is aleve. he's agreed to give it up. ok, but i have 30 acres
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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ democratic socialism means that in a democratic civilized society the wealthiest people and the largest cooperations must pay their fair share of taxes. we have millions of people in this country, they're working not one job, two jobs, three jobs trying to cobble together some income and health care. yet after all of that 58% of all new income created goes to the top 1%. >> the bernie sanders for
president campaign follows in the footsteps of many social theorists and activists who have been advancing those ideas long before bernie sanders ran for office. the distinguished professor of the graduate school at the university of new york is ten years older than bernie sanders and has been a leading activists throughout her career. she's the author of several books and the mover behind the law that simplified voter registration. the president invited her to that bill signing ceremony. here is she in 1980 with a debate with the leading republican economist of the era. >> the economic license of this to control property and those who control capital has been a threat to equality, but a threat to the people all over the world, not only in europe and in
the united states, but in africa and asia and in latin america. >> joining us now the professor who is also an honorary chair of the democratic socialists of america. professor, thank you very much for joining us. >> i'm so glad to be here. >> i've just been imagining throughout this campaign what it's been like for you to watch the rise of a candidate who is saying things that i could have imagined a candidate saying in the past, but not a competitive candidate, no the a candidate who is running up a very competitive for the nomination for the democratic presidential nomination. >> i think that democratic socialist is a very big term. people mean a lot of different things by it. you could also call bernie sanders a new deal democrat. >> certainly. >> and you wouldn't be wrong. >> right. >> so maybe he's not even a very left wing new deal democrat. but his bold and clear statement
of his central policy commitments and they are -- they are left in american politics they're left commitments, that's new. we haven't heard that for a long time and i think people are just eating it up. >> you've been studying voter behavior for a long time, written a couple of books about it, including how politicians have tried to suppress voter turn out in various ways, but the younger voter when you polled them on this word socialism it is not a bad word and polls always used to return socialism as just about the worst word you could associate with anyone. >> that's the effect of a kind of national culture of propaganda, flag waiving, but if you think about what socialism has meant and especially what democratic socialism has meant, it means that there should be democratic control over the main
functions of the economy and that could happen in a variety of ways. it could be done by giving government larger responsibilities for production and distribution. it could be done by having workers self management. there are any number of ways in which we could democraticize the economy. i believe we need to do that however and so does bernie sanders, but not in radical ways. he's not proposing to take over anything. he's just proposing to redistribute the concentrated wealth that we've been producing in this society to make sure that everybody, young people have jobs, to make sure that people working have medical leave, that they can spend some time with their children to make sure they have health care. these are minimal things in rich
industrial countries, everywhere except the united states. >> is it that we needed 50 years of watching other rich industrial countries do this kind of thing successfully and not sink into economic despair? >> well, i think it helps that we watched other countries do it, but we also have a tendsy to think that we're extremely different, that we -- we have two legs and two arms and things like that, but that's something special about american society. there isn't anything so exotic about american society except that we treat ourselves diftd and we don't learn as much as we could from other countries. a little learning would be a good thing. >> you've taught us all a great deal for many years. it is an honor to have you here tonight. >> glad to speak with you. >> the msnbc town hall with donald trump is up next.