tv Hardball College Tour MSNBC February 26, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PST
>> oh, please. >> the american presidency has four hats the way i can figure ç it. the first hat is chief executive and
secondly head of state. you represent the american people to the world and to themselves. head of government through your legislative program and commander in chief. >> you forgot one important thing. >> go for it. >> represent the american people, working people and poor people and elderly people, people who are being shafted today who need the right to have a decent standard of living and
the right to know their government is not controlled by billionaires in a corrupt campaign finance system. so one of the reasons i'm running for president, everything you said is true, is to transform american society to take on a corrupt finance system and a rigged economy and broken system. when i look at my agenda, it's everything you said, but it is more than that. >> can you see yourself -- i've heard your speeches resounding and you have a powerful messageç that an agenda that is clearer than most candidates have ever had sitting in a situation room calling a lethal drone strike can you see yourself in that position now? >> absolutely. absolutely. i am proud of my achievement in terms of foreign policy. i've been all over the world.
the most important decision that congress made in many years in terms of foreign policy was the war in iraq. it's not just that i voted against the war, which was the right vote and that i helped lead the opposition against the war, check out what i said on the floor of the house. check what i feared would happen the day after saddam hussein was overthrown. pretty good judgment. i think when you talk about my views now and how we destroy isis through a coalition, through muslim troops on the ground, i think my positions are pretty clear and in fact right. >> how do we tell you as ç president convince our potential add very sareries that you're not a person to be messed with? remember kennedy got in troubleç
mistake, you go back and you talk about overthrowing musadeck in iran. you know what we ended up with, kamani. we over through the government in chili. what foreign policy about is not just power, it's about judgment. hillary clinton sees as a mentor of hers henry kissinger. i do not see him as a mentor of mine. i think he was one of the worst secretary of states of in this country. >> guatemala, let's talk about that. and something to do with lumba. now we have regime change policy. i'm looking at libya, what did you think of that? >> not much. >> we ended up killing the leaders anyway. >> what happened? what happened the day after? saddam hussein, he was a bad guy. isis now has a foothold in libya which can be a testing ground, an operational strength, stronghold for them in terrorist attacks. so here's the point. all of us agree you have bad people running countries around the world, but it's not good enough to say assad is a terrible guy, he is. what happens the day after assad is gone? what's the best way to transition to democratsy. hillary clinton and i have a difference. it's not just the war in iraq that she supported, i opposed. i am more cautious in ter regime changes. >> you're sitting in the white house and you're reading "the new york times" or the wall street journal -- >> you got it. >> the you need coalition. you need coalition. especially when you're dealing pens when a good organization comes forward and says these people deserve a trial. they're on u.s. territory. >> i actually visited and all i can tell you is that gitmo sends a signal to the entire muslim world, the united states talks a good game about democracy, but look at gitmo. >> what do you do with these guys? >> i believe we should shut it down. how do you get 60 votes. >> you will pay for it through a tax on wall street. >> who is going to pass that tax? the senate is going to pass that. >> we look at the world differently. you look at it inside the belt way. i'm an outside the beltway guy. >> the people who vote for the taxes are inside the beltway. >> they'll vote the right way when millions of people demand they vote the right way. better campaign than he did, but this is what i will tell you, when i started this campaign i was at 3% in the polls. in the last ten days there are have been four national polls and three had me in the lead, one two points down.
we have come a long way. in terms of voter turn out, no, the turn out is not what obama did. in that election to talk about politics, he had john edwards bringing in votes. the voter turn out in iowa was care and jobs they need to improve their lives. that's not what that bill did. it end up increasing significantly, extreme poverty in america. it caused a lot of suffering for some of the most poorest and vulnerable in this country. i think your point is exactly correct. i think that's an issue we will be talking about a whole lot. thank you. >> senator sanders. t tabs on isis recruiting efforts? you're right we do. do we want to open the door so the federal govern that the university of chicago end the segregated housing. the schools were pretty segregated. i got involved in that. that's where i got arrested. >> let's take a look where you stood up against a guy who showed bigotry. >> is there any shocking doubt tfer of trillions of dollars from the trillion class. >> okay. we'll go back to the big picture when we come back. more questions from the audience when we chris matthews with democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders, live from the university of chicago's institute of politics. this is a live shot right now with that event having just wraçç
that was a remarkable event. there's a lot going on in news and politics tonight. on the political side, bryan sandoval has taken his name out of contention for the supreme court nominee. a whole new raft of polling has come out. donald trump continues to dominate the field. the rest of the republican field has now started amongst themselves in earnest as to who ought the quit. on the democratic side of the race we did have this remarkable, long forum town hall with bernie sanders who is safe to say back to being the underdog, but one who is fighting really hard and has a lot of resources and support on his side. bernie sanders taking questions from students at the university of chicago there. this is a live shot of the room. it was fascinating. this event also started off with what i thought was a contentious and challenge and really interesting back and forth one-on-one between chris
matthews and bernie sanders. chris matthews tried to pin senator sanders done on the feasibility of what he's campaigning on. we'll show you a couple of clips. the senator got applause for some of the answe mitch mcconnell looks at you and say forget about it. >> i say look out the window. there's a million young people out there who don't want to be in debt for half their life for the crime of going to college. if you want to antagonize those people and lose your job, if you don't want to lose your job you better start listening to what we have to say. that's the point. that's how change takes place. >> how do you squeeze a guy like him? >> it's not him. i know mitch. >asn't demonstrated it can be done that way. >> kacie, on that point, the sanders campaign is getting more and more sensitive to that point. they are being asked about it as the senator continues to make this pitch that the way he's ç
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see that the president does make a nomination and that the united states senate holds the hearings to either approve or disapprove. that's what the constitution mon dates. >> article two says name a nominee. >> these people are such obstructionists they don't want to give this president the right to fulfill his constitutional duty. but you raise a broader question, what do you do about it? i know it's outside of mainstream thinking. it is to revisitalize american democratsy. you have a congress that does the bidding of the billionaire class of the campaign donors. you know. half the members of congress are spending their time raising
money and it's getting worse. what you need to do is rally the american people. give you an example.ç raising the minimum wage, overwhelming support for raising the minimum wage, congress does not want to do it. pay equity for women workers. >> how many can't do this, but you can how? >> what i say is you need a political revolution, you need these people and low income people and working people, if they are not involved in the political process it will be the billionaire class who makes decisions for them and not necessarily in their interests. >> you get elected, you take office next january 20th and you walk up to the senate and you meet with the leadership and say i have a program here, i want to have free -- government funded tuition for public universities, there's things i want done on social security, there's things i want done on health care so it can become like medicare for life, you have strong positions, and mitch mcconnell looks the at you and says forget about it.
>> you know what i say, i say hey mitch take a look out the window, there are a million young people out there who don't want to be in debt for their life for the crime of going to college. if you want to upset those ç people and you don't want to lose your job, listen to what we have to say. that's the point. >> how do you squeeze a guy like him? >> it's not him. >> all americans. 60 senator to get -- you need 60. >> let me tell you, absolutely, possessively, 100%, if we rally young people in this country to say you know what, germany, other countries they have free tuition in public colleges and universities, i have been all over this country. i've talked to kids a hundred thousand dollars in debt paying a huge percentage of their income, young people are saying
we don't want to go into debt all our lives because of college education, we'll win that fight immediately. it's to say mitch look at your e-mails coming. >> what evidence do you have that this has worked for you? have you increased the turn out in these elections? have you as a senator been ableç to get 60 votes for anything? have you ever been able to do this, what you're talking about getting. >> i am not the president. >> what evidence do you have that you can do it? >> the evidence that i have is that's the only way change is about to happen in this country. that's what the civil rights movement was about, that's what the women's movement, the gay movement. >> is it sufficient to get it done? these guys running their own states with their own constituentsies -- >> let me give you an example.
>> how do you know you can do it? >> how do i know? i don't know anything. i think we do the best we can do. if we were sitting here ten years ago and i said to you, i think in 2015 gay marriage will be legal in every state in this country, what would you have told me? you would have told me i was crazy. that's what you would have told me. >> i can't see the future, but you're right it moved very quickly. >> it moved quickly because ç people in the gay community and their straight allies said you have a right to love anybody you want. >> how does this relate to citizens united? >> i see all the connection. you are asking me how we make change and i'm telling you you make change not by sitting down with mitch mcconnell, you make change when millions of people in this country demand change. that's how change has always taken place.
it's not just -- i used gay rights which is a good example for these people to understand. they think gay rights, what's the big deal, 20 years ago, when i voted against doma, that was a difficult vote, but what about the civil rights movement, the women's movement, it always happens when millions of people demand change. when we have a massive levels of income inequality -- >> it seems to me that the ç reason that we got gay marriage, same sex marriage, there was nobody on the other side. they didn't have a case. there was no damage done by gay marriage. that's what happened. there were no losers. >> wow.
>> they couldn't make a case against it. >> hold it. >> can i continue? >> no. >> go ahead. >> you have all of these foundmentalists -- >> they disagreed, but they didn't lose. >> if we get government funded tuition it has to come from someone. those people will be the one to lose. if you have larger social security benefits the working people will lose. so there will be tremendous forces against everything you've advocated here. nobody is staying up all night worrying about gay marriage. this thing they're losing money, the very interests you've talked about are still going to be ç there the day after you're inag rated. >> let me rephrase it. what you are saying, correct me if i'm wrong, is you have a very powerful billionaire class who wants it all and will resist any change. >> anyone with substantial
wealth or in a 401(k) -- >> what you're talking about is the koch brothers in corporate america -- >> and everyone in the stock market. >> who are very wealthy. >> anyone in the stock market. >> let me say this -- not anyone. let me say this if i might. in the last 30 years you know what's happened, there's been a massive redistribution of wealth. >> i agree completely. >> it has gone from the middle class and working families to the top .1%. i didn't hear the establishment talking about how crazy it was that the money left the middle class. when i'm talking about giving the -- >> the question is how do you get it done when all these powers are against you. the finance committee is sittinç around saying --
>> what you are saying. >> we have to get that tax past. then somewhere you have to dedicate it to paying for tuition bills. these are hard things to get done. >> let me be very clear. i believe that in the year 2016 a college degree today is about the equivalent of a high school degree 60 years ago. >> i agree with it. >> so i believe that when we talk about public education, it shouldn't be first grade through 12th. it should be through college. i believe that public colleges and universities, not the universities of chicago, sorry guys, but public colleges and universities should be tuition free so that every kid in this country -- look, i grew up in a family that did not have a lot of money. i want every kid in this country who has the ability to do so to go to college. i want to deal with an issue you guys are worried about is student debt. is that true? >> yes. >> we have millions of people really being crushed with student debt. my ideas is to merge the two.ç
you're asking me how do i pay for it. >> i asked how you pass it through the senate. how do you get 60 votes. >> you will pay for it through a tax on wall street. >> who is going to pass that tax? the senate is going to pass that. >> we look at the world differently. you look at it inside the belt way. i'm an outside the beltway guy. >> the people who vote for the taxes are inside the beltway. >> they'll vote the right way when millions of people demand they vote the right way. on this issue i have no doubt as president of the united states i can ral lie young people to say if germany does it, we can do it and yes we bailed out wall street -- >> can you. >> it is wall street's time to help the middle class. >> the next leader is chuck. can you tell me one senator who is going to follow you? tell me the votes.
who is going to vote with you? >> i know check very well. >> call him up. >> chris. >> you can't give me one vote.ç >> i didn't say -- >> you won't be in the senate anymore. >> chris, i didn't say i couldn't give you one vote. what you're not catching on, i have to say this respectfully, you're a nice guy, you're missing the point. you're missing the point. if you look at politics today as a zero sum total, if you're looking at 63% of the american people not voting, 80% of young people not voting, billionaires buying elections, i'm not looking at that world. >> how is that going to change the day you're in office. you won't have the supreme court on your side. you need 60 votes to get a supreme court nominee. we're starting at the point of can you do it. >> yes, damn right i can do what i say because if i get elected -- >> have you ever done anything like this. have you ever gotten 60 votes for anything in the senate? >> we have.
>> what was it. >> my veterans bill, the strongest veterans billed passed in many years. now i am hopefully the president of the united states. we have the public. so the difference --ç >> says obama. >> the difference that you and i have is you're looking at politics in the way it is today. what i am trying to do is not just pass legislation, i'm trying to change the face of american politics, getting working people to stand up and fight for their rights and i think when we talk about issues like creating millions of jobs, rebuilding infrastructureinfrastructure. >> suppose you propose this legislation and nothing happens, do you sit in office for four years? >> i suspect not. >> what would you do? you assume everything is going to change. a million of people are not going to stay outside your window for four years. they may come once. >> you are assuming and this is the difference between our views, you are assuming that the
american people are not going to be engaged in the political process. i think by definition -- >> i'm watching the turn out figures this year and they're not going up. >> wait a minute. first of all, let's jump into that. barack obama in 2008 ran in my view one of the great campaigns in the history of the united "fáupáes of america. you and nobody has ever heard me say that we're going to run a better campaign than he did, but this is what i will tell you, when i started this campaign i was at 3% in the polls. in the last ten days there are have been four national polls and three had me in the lead, one two points down. we have come a long way. in terms of voter turn out, no, the turn out is not what obama did. in that election to talk about politics, he had john edwards bringing in votes. the voter turn out in iowa was strong, new hampshire strong, nevada not strong, which is why we lost. so our job is in fact to make
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welcome back. look at that picture. that's chamberlain house where senator bernie sanders lived when he was a student here. i want to get a first question in. go ahead. >> thank you very much for all you're doing. earlier in the campaign you notably decided not to focus on hillary's e-mails. now, as the campaign has increased this intensity, do you believe it's time to bring up the millions of dollars that the clinton campaign received from foreign government when she was secretary of state?ç >> look, what i have tried to do as somebody who has never run a negative campaign, a negative ad
in my entire life, is to try to focus on the issues i think are impacting the american people. you raise an important issue. i understand that. i have talked about the fact that hillary clinton has received many millions of dollars from wall street for her campaign and her super pacs. she's received very large speakers fees. i think those are important issues. i agree with new york times editorial. i don't know if anyone saw the tape where they urged secretary clinton to release the transcripts of the speeches she gave behind closed doors. right now my focus is to contrast my views on how we can improve life for the middle class and working families. thanks very much for that question. >> hi, senator sanders. welcome back.ç
your opponent's new line is she's the one who can break down barriers that all people face. however, the reality is that many of the barriers in place especially for low income individuals and people of color were created by the policies put in place during the clinton administration. given this reality, do you feel this claim of breaking down barriers is a little ironic and how are you in a better position to do so? >> thank you very much. very good question. i think you make a good point. as i mentioned the other day we had a press conference on this. in 1996, the clinton administration, then first lady clinton was very active in so called welfare reform. you familiar with what that was? it picked up on the republican agenda. it said one of the basic problems in america is that poor people and, by the way, african-americans were ripping off the welfare system.
everybody believes in welfare reform if it means helping people get the education, child care and jobs they need to improve their lives. that's not what that bill did.ç it end up increasing significantly, extreme poverty in america. it caused a lot of suffering for some of the most poorest and vulnerable in this country. i think your point is exactly correct. i think that's an issue we will be talking about a whole lot. thank you. >> senator sanders. thank you for being here. my name is patrick quinn. my question is the recent firing of chicago police superintendent highlights the fact that even intended reformers can fail in the face of institutional power. as president, how would you reform our criminal justice system? >> great question. it's an issue very high on my agenda. we have a broken criminal justice system. everybody in this country and everybody in this country should be ashamed that we have more people in jail than any other country on earth.
2.2 million people, more than china. largely african-american and latino. let me tell you some of the things that i would do. first of all, what we do is try to prevent people from getting into the criminal justice.ç what does that mean? today if you're an african-american kid between 17 and 20 and you graduated high school, you didn't go to college, do you know what your unemployment and underemployment rate is? it's 51%. 51%. my view is we will invest in jobs and education for those kids rather than jails and incarceration. second of all, we have to create, and the federal government can play an important role dealing with local municipalities creating a model program for police departments. for example, lethal force should be the last resort not the first resort. second of all, if a individual
is killed by a police officer or dies in police custody, that should automatically trigger a department of justice investigation. thirdly, we want to make police departments look like the communities they serve in terms of their diversity. [ applause ] fourthly, we want to demilitarize police departmentsç fifthly, we want to take a hard look at the war on drugs. they have records because of possession of marijuana. i find it interesting in criminal justice that people on wall street who's illegal behavior destroyed our economy don't get a police record. some kid in chicago gets picked up with marijuana, he or she gets a police record. that's not right. [ applause ] >> hi, senator sanders. i was hoping you could elaborate
more on the apple debate and what your plans are to tackle the issue of government surveillance? >> it's a huge issue and very important. you're looking at a guy who voted against the patriot act. that was hard vote. sometimes it becomes easier. this is after 9/11, it wasn't just an easy vote. my concern then and my concern ç now is that the nsa and the government, they're keeping records on all of your phone calls, on many of your phone calls. they have the ability to use it and go into the websites you visit and check out your e-mails. you know what, it's not just the government. it's corporate america as well who knows a whole lot about your purchasing habits, maybe your banking records, maybe your medical records as well. the bottom line -- >> explain how they use that. >> i don't know.
well, if i know the products that you buy, then i know how to advertise and get to you. the bottom line is there's been a revolution in technology in the last 20 years. public policy has in no way kept pace with the transformation of our society. to answer your question, this is a tough issue. on one hand, do we want to keep tabs on isis recruiting efforts? you're right we do. do we want to open the door so the federal government knows much too much about you.ç how do you achieve that balance is not easy. that's what we have to answer. >> where are you on snowden? >> you know, i think snowden broke the law. that's true. i think he deserves his day in court to make his case. on the other hand there would not be a whole lot of discussion that we're hearing today if snowden did not come forward and tell us what the nsa was doing. >> you wouldn't throw the book at him? >> no.
let me ask you about the '60s. my kids love to talk about the ç '60s. what did it feel like when you were here? >> to be honest with you, i don't say that just because i'm on tv. i was not much into drugs. my hair was a little bit longer. >> we got pictures. we'll show one up. >> coming here in '61 or 2. what was mind blowing for me was beginning to get involved with a whole lot of people who are very different from the people i grew up with this brooklyn. i became involved in the civil rights movement. i think one of the first jobs that i ever had here in chicago was with the packing house workers of america. >> mostly african-americans. >> that's right. that's all gone now.
i learned about the trade union movement and the civil rights movement. i learned about foreign policy and the peace movement. >> what was it like to get ajpá it was, the hard work and dangerous work was being done in the south. that's where people were getting killed. >> chaney and goodman. >> that's right. this is what we did here. we said we're going to provide -- i didn't have any money. we're going to provide some financial support for our friends in the south. we got to look at what's going on here in chicago as well. i want to say this to the young people here at the university of chicago. back in the early 1960s, the university of chicago owns a lot of property. owns a lot of apartments. in those days many of those apartments were segregated. what we did, chris, we would send a black couple, husband and wife, to an apartment. do you have any apartments available? the guy would say we don't.
an hour later we would send the white couple and say we have all kinds of apartments available. then we got focused on -- it was that the university of chicago end the segregated housing. the schools were pretty segregated. i got involved in that.ç that's where i got arrested. >> let's take a look where you stood up against a guy who showed bigotry. >> is there any shocking doubt the same people that would vote to cut defense 177 billion, the same ones that would put homos in the military and not fund -- >> mr. chairman. >> no i will not. sit down you socialist. >> my ears may have been playing a trick on me but i thought i heard the gentleman say something quote, unquote about homos in the military. was i right in hearing that? >> absolutely. putting homosexuals in the military.
>> was the gentlemen referring to the many thousands and thousands of gay people who have put their lives on the line in countless wars defending this country? is that the group of people the gentlemen was referring to? >> i was talking about the people in the military do not support -- >> that's not what you were talking about. you used the word homos. you have insulted thousands of men and women. >> i'm talk about you and liberals like you.ç >> wow. what year was that? >> who knows. >> '85, '95. >> that was duke cunningham. >> he's busy now, isn't he? >> i don't know if he's still in jail. he was in jail for bribery. >> have you sent any cards or anything? >> i have not. here's an example of somebody on the floor of the house making grossly homophobic statements and i dealt with him.
>> you joined a group called the young people socialist. a lot of people grew up, i'm not that younger than you. socialism was a hard thing to grab onto it. how did you feel comfortable enough -- how many are comfortable calling themselves socialist? the hand was enough. it's some. it's not a huge number. >> more over there, i think. >> maybe if it was back then itç would be harder to get your hand up. >> what it was to me was trying to connect the dots. to try to understand what money and power was about. the impact it had on society. why it was that we had so much. it's worse today than we had income and wealth inequality. >> it's worse now, right? >> it is worse now. >> when i talk about democratic
socialism, what i talk about today is looking at countries around the world who have had governments who have brought health care to all of their people. who have managed to make sure that when elderly people retire they can live in dignity. who have much higher voter turn outs than we do, a more vibrant democracy. >> we're paying national debt through the roof. so much if it doesn't go to helping people today. it goes neither paying off debt or paying for a military in a world war ii cold budget.ç sweden doesn't have that problem. >> we're not sweden. >> we don't have the burden we have. >> they don't have the resources we have. they don't have the collective wealth that we have as well. bottom line is we need a strong
military. do i think it's bloated? absolutely. do you know how many administrators we have in the military. it's not the men and women in uniform, we have one and a half people to administer in uniform. we have huge cost overruns. you have a lot of fraud that goes on there. the u.s. department of defense cannot sustain independent order. one of few agencies of government. also you have to address the level of income and wealth inequality and the transfer of trillions of dollars from the trillion class. >> okay. we'll go back to the big picture when we come back. more questions from the audience when we come back. we're back with senator
we're back with senator bernie sanders on the hardball college tour. i have one question. black lives matter. what's your reaction to the whole movement? it's real movement. >> it's real movement, and these people are raising an enormously important issue that i think the white community is not familiar with. african-americans worry about when they let their kids out on the streets. they worry when they get in their car. african-americans are four times
more likely to be arrested for marijuana than whites despite the fact that both groups smoke it about the same. their sentences are longer when they are put in jail. i think the black lives matter have raised this issue. that tells me, and what i believe very strongly, is we need major, major criminal justice and criminal reform.ç >> what do you think of a police officer shooting a guy as he's running away or a big heavy set guy being choked to death camera? >> that's eric garner. it's indefensible. it's horrible. the people are sick and tired of this. the bottom line is we need radical reforms in our police departments and i was mayor. i worked with cops all the time. most of them are working hard, doing a good job. when a police officer breaks the law like any other public official, that officer must be held accountable.
>> let's get a question in. >> thank you. we have talked a bit about your background here at the university of chicago. one thing you haven't discussed as much on the campaign trial is the fact you're jewish. i would like to know what is your relationship as your faith in. >> we have about a minute. >> obviously being jewish is ç important to me. i'm very proud of my heritage. what comes to my mind so strongly is a kid growing up in brooklyn and seeing people with numbers on their wrists. you probably have not seen that. those were the people who came out of concentration camps. knowing that good part of my father's family was killed by the nazis. that lesson i learned as a very young person is politics is serious business. when you have a lunatic like
hitler gaining power, 50 million people died in world war ii. i'm proud to be jewish and proud of my heritage. >> thank you. senator bernie sanders. thank you all at the university of chicago for having us here. join me at 11:00 for a live post game analysis of the republican debate. that was great. that was the hardball college "t!rass band onset.lete with a chris matthews with democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders, live from the university of chicago's institute of politics. this is a live shot right now with that event having just wrapped up. i'm rachel maddow back in new york. we do not have a brass band. that was a remarkable event. there's a lot going on in news and politics tonight.