tv The Place for Politics 2016 MSNBC February 27, 2016 11:00am-3:01pm PST
government agency. that's the fraud. and i saw lawyers talking about it in some of these crazy talk shows. and they said it's a fraud. i mean, it's like a fraud. i would have disqualified him from his victory in iowa. because you can't do businesslike that, you just can't do it. then you take everybody, move them up a notch, and now i won four in a row, instead of three. it doesn't matter, i got almost the same number of delegates, i got one less. you can't do that stuff. frankly, cruz is smarter than rubio. intellectually he's smarter than rubio. both, they lie. you know, i deal in the real estate business, i deal in a lot of businesses, i meet some bad people. i've never met people that can lie like these guys. they are world class liars. it's unbelievable. and i was helped in cruz's case
because rubio looked at him and said, you're a liar. and he was right, because he did lie about that particular point. once he said he was a liar, i was ibl to say, he's a liar. i know politicians very well, i've dealt with them all my life. a lot of them are bad people. you have some good ones, but you have a lot of really seedy horrible people. i've never seen a politician call another politician a liar. when he called him a liar, i said great now i can call him a liar. there was so much lying. rubio is probably a worse liar than cruz. i don't know who to pick. at the end of flee or four he weeks i'll give you my pick. does that sound okay? >> we have an amazing story. i have decided that with my life, if i win, i'm going to do something that's going to be so amazing for our country. we're going to have great trade deals. the worst trade deals ever made in history. we have trade deals that are so bad.
we have deals period that are so bad. the iran deal, we give $150 billion to iran, they're now spending that money. it's one of the worst deals, forget about country to country one of the dumbest goals i've ever seen. all of our deals are like that. that's a hor or deal. those hostages should have been four years ago, before you started the negotiation. they go in -- this guy kerry -- >> it's a joke. >> it's horrible. they go in, and you say, we have to have our hostages back. no, the persians, great negotiators. they'll say no and you'll say, bye-bye, we're leaving, bye, enjoy your sself now they're sitting at a table, nobody on the other side of the table. you double up on the sanctions,
you just go ratchet, ratchet, ratchet. within 24 hours you'll be called. you got your hostages back, folks. then i go a step further. and i tell this story about my father. my father did not give me $200 million, believe me -- i told you, my sister, she calls -- and i have a great sister, a great brother. they both called the night after the debate. dad never gave you -- are you kidding? where's our piece of it. it's unbelievable. took a million dollars, borrowed it, paid it back. that's now morphed into 200 million. the new york times, it's going out of business, it's the worst newspaper, it's a dead newspaper. going out of business. unless someone buys it like me as a vanity project. it loses a fortune. they're the most dishonest people at the new york times.
they wrote a story about me a couple days ago, it was so wrong, they knew it was wrong. i said, then pull the story. no, we won't do that. if you know the story's wrong, why won't they pull it. new york times, i call it the failing new york times. it's very interesting. they bought the boston globe. they paid $1.3 billion for the boston globe, right. they spent hundreds of millions of dollars on modernizing it. they sold it for essentially 1 $. they have a billion and a half dollars. they have the cathedral. >> we're listening in to donald trump and his speech in bentonville, ar ar.
we heard trump for the first time on the campaign trail talk about these federal lawsuits, at the heart of the latest attacks by senator rubio. focused on trump university. we'll discuss what we heard from trump. i want to take you to the democratic front-runner, who's also expected to win south carolina today. let's listen in to hillary clinton. >> you know, before there was what they call obama care, there was hillary care. i tell you, i worked very hard to get us on the path to universal health care coverage and the insurance companies, the drug companies just beat us, there's no two ways about it. i was very disappointed. and i was especially heart sick because i had -- by that time met so many people who were suffering because they could not get -- they could not afford health insurance. i'll tell you one quick story. i was at the children's hospital
in cleveland. and i was meeting with the parents of really sick kids. they couldn't get health insurance for their kids. the kids have what's called a pre-existing condition. i remember one man, he said, look, i'm successful. i started and run my own company. i provide health insurance for my employees and their families. and nobody will sell me a policy for my two daughters who have cystic fibrosis. i sat there in the hospital conference room. what did they say to you? i'll tell you what the last one said. i showed them i was financially able, i needed some help. he just looked at me and he said to me, you don't understand, we don't insure burning houses. and his father looked at me. and by this time he had tears in his eyes, they called my little girls burning houses. i tell you that, because i want
to remind you, what it was like. you know, i turned around and helped create the children's health insurance program with democrats and republicans working together. it insures 8 million kids giving them medical care, giving their families peace of mind. i was thrilled when president obama got passed and signed into law the affordable care act. now the republicans keep trying to repeal it, they have voted 63 times to repeal it. but they never tell you what they're going to put in its place, do they? it's because they know we won't like what they would say, because it will be back to letting the insurance companies call all the shots. i'm going to defend it. and i'm going to make it better. i'm going to build on it by getting costs down, getting more competition. making sure that we go after
prescription drug costs, which are going up much too quickly. but here's what i want you to understand. this will be part of the campaign too. there's been a concerted effort to try to demean and criticize in every way possible the affordable care act. we're now at 90% health care coverage. and everywhere i go, somebody will tell me where they're grateful for the affordable care act. the other side has had plenty of air time to criticize without providing an alternative. so i was in south carolina, i was in florence. a woman comes up to me and said, thank you for defending the affordable care act, it saved my life. i said what do you mean? she said, i -- i've always
worked but i made too much money to get any help and i didn't have any employer helping me, so i've been uninsured for years. i just stopped going to the doctor. i had these headaches. i said, okay, i'm going to sign up for the affordable care act. as soon as i got that insurance, i went to the doctor. the doctor examined me and said, you have brain cancer. and i said, well, how are you doing? the woman said, i'm doing fine. but the doctor told me, if you had waited too much longer, there wouldn't have been anything we could have done for you. i have dozens and by the time we're done, we'll have hundreds and thousands of stories like that. and i'll tell you something else. it is a real, real tragedy that you haven't yet extended medicaid to cover working peo e
people. i'm going to do everything i can, i want you to think about this, i compare what happens in states that didn't do it with states that did do it, in addition to helping people get the health care they need. you know what else it does? it keeps open rural hospitals. because rural hospitals are closing in states where medicare wasn't extended because they're taking care of people who can't afford to pay anything. you can't stay in business long. this doesn't just affect folks who are left out, this affects everyone who needs health care, particularly in rural communitieses. we're going to make sure we get the costs down, and make it possible finally for medicare to negotiate for the drug companies for lower drug prices.
and i'm going to use every tool i can to go after your president, these speculators, who get ahold of the drug and increases it as high as 5,000%. we're going to take that problem on. i also want to do everything i can to make sure every child has access to quality education. [ cheers and applause ] >> look, i know. i know we have two education systems in our country. we got a system for wealthy communities, affluent communities, communities that can afford to pay a lot of property tax. and we have a system for poor families in poor communities that don't have the resources. it is unfair. every child in this country deserves a chance to live up to his or her god given potential.
you know, i started out, if you saw the video from my husband, i started out working on education some years ago, i worked on it in arkansas. when we started we had the second worst education system by most people's analysis, in the country. we used to say, thank god for mississippi, right? well, thanks to my husband's leadership, i headed a committee, and we started to work to improve education in our state then. and we made progress, and by the time 10 years or so later that bill ran for president. the two states that had shown the most improvement under democratic governors who committed to improve education were arkansas and south carolina. and so we made progress. but you know, you can't take progress for granted. right now there are schools in south carolina, and i've been to a couple of the counties where they are. that are literally falling down around the children's heads.
and i know -- i hear that, about alabama too. you know, i used to have what i called the chelsea test. if i went to a school, i asked, would i send my daughter there? i went to a lot of great public schools i would have been happy to send her there, then i went to some not so great schools. now i have the charlotte test, named after my granddaughter. i think every politician should think about a child they love who they cherish and ask themselves honestly, would you send that child to this school in your state? i'll tell you one thing i would do is early childhood education, so more kids are prepared to succeed when they get to school. and then for heaven's sakes, let's make college affordable for hardworking families again.
the cost of college has gone up 42% in the last 10 years. nothing else has gone up that high. i have a plan so that you would be able to attend a public college or university debt free, you wouldn't have to borrow money for tuition. but i do want the states to put more money back into higher educati education. it's been my observation we have enough prisons, we need to be investing in higher education in our colleges and universities. now my esteemed opponent has a plan for what he calls free college. i have a plan that i say is a compact. the states i want to help put more money in. i want students to work ten hours a week. i think it's an important
investment in your own future. and look, i am not going to ask taxpayers to provide free education to donald trump's youngest child. this is going to be for middle class families, working families, poor kids who are striving to be successful. and then we're going to deal with student debt. how many people here have student debt? oh, yeah. oh, yeah. 20 years later. okay, here's what i'm going to do. i feel really strongly -- i borrowed money, my husband and i both borrowed money to go to law school. we both worked. depending on the day telling the story, you either had three jobs, five jobs, nine jobs, ten jobs. we worked hard, but we had to borrow money too. here's what i want for you. number one, we're going to let you refinance your student debt.
think about it, can you refinance your mortgage, your car payment. corporations can refinance their debt. i was at another hbcu in sumpter, south carolina, i met a student who has a 13% interest rate. anybody here have a 13% or higher interest rate? this young man right there. my gosh, i want everyone to understand what we have done to our young people. i don't blame them for being frustrated. we haven't even had interest rates for years now because of the great recession, and even before that. and we're charging young people 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15 percent? it is so wrong. here's the other thing i'm going to do, i'm going to move as many as will move with me into
contingency payment plans. you pay it back as a percentage of your income. when i got out of law school, i was a lawyer working for the children's defense fund, i made maybe $14,000 a year, that's how i could take a job i wanted to do and be able to afford it. that's when i came down to alabama to investigate segregated academies and was down here gathering information to try to prevent them from getting tax exempt status. so i did a job that i loved and i could afford to do it, because i was paying it back as a percentage. that's what i want for everybody. we will move as many as will go in to these programs. get it refinanced and take what's left and give it to a contingency program. and then we're going to stop after 20 years. we're not going any further than that. and we're going to stop the federal government from making a
profit off of lending money to students. i want to say a special word about hbcu's, i have a special fund that will go to both public and private hbcu's. i mean, just look at the numbers. the majority of professionals, doctors, lawyers, academics, leaders, business, everything else came out of hbcu's in the african-american community. i want them to continue with their mission, and i will support that. we have a lot of big challenges in america, and we also have some around the world. i just want to say a quick word about that. when you go to vote in the primary on tuesday, you are voting for someone who will be both the president and the
commander in chief. i was very honored to work with president obama for those first four years of his presidency. we faced a lot of tough choices. the world is filled with them. you know, the biggest counter terrorism choice we faced is whether or not to go after bin laden. now, i had a particular interest in this, because i was a senator on 9/11 in new york. and i was there within 24 hours looking at the horror of what al qaeda had done, killing 3,000 people in our country. so i wanted to do whatever i could to bring him to justice. so when i was asked to be part of that small group to advice the president about whether the intelligence was strong enough
to take action on, it was one of the most intense experiences of my life. his advisers were split. i evaluated if, i concluded. it was worth launching a mission, but we knew very well that the ultimate decision rested with the president. that's an awesome responsibil y responsibility. after we had given our advice, it was up to the president. i believe he made the right choice, there was nothing at all guaranteed about it, when those navy s.e.a.l.s went in, we were in the small situation room, the small group of us who worked on it, watching on the video. and we saw one of thele copters clip the wall getting into the compound which disabled it. thankfully every contingency the human mind could imagine had been thought through, so there
was another helicopter in waiting that we could get in. i tell you this, because the next president will face some hard choices. if they're not hard, they don't get to the president. somebody else handles them before they get to the white house, in the situation room. i am very confident about america's leadership. and i believe with all my heart that we can defeat isis and the other terrorist networks working in kohl igs. but it does bother me when i hear some of the rhetoric coming out of the republicans. because i know how hard it is to put together a coalition. we have to go after isis from the air, and we're leading an air campaign to do that. take out their infrastructure, their leadership. we have to work with arab and kurdish fighters to take back territory on the ground. we have to continue to help improve the iraqi army, so that
they can continue to try to take back territory inside iraq. we have to go after foreign fighters, you have to go after foreign money, we have to contest them online. and we have to have partnerships to do that, who do we mostly need to make partnerships with? muslim nations. it does not help us to form a coalition with them when a leading candidate for president spends half his time insulting th them. you know, when you run for president, it's not just americans who pay attention. and when you are president, the entire world listens to every word you say. markets rise and fall, conflicts go forward or retreat. this is an incredibly important point for america to understand.
yes, we elect our president. but that person becomes in many ways the leader of free people and free markets. and opportunity around the world. so you do have to be careful about what you say and how you say it. i want you to imagine the country we can have together where we do find common ground with people we disagree with. that's the american way. i did that. i did it as first lady as senator, as secretary of state. >> we're listening to hillary
clinton on your screen. and you're hearing a dualing interview with donald trump. i think a lot of things have shaped up in the last few minutes you've been watching. we're in texas, where is our home away from home for the last few days, this state is one of the big ones up for grabs. this super tuesday, we've been listening to hillary clinton in fairfield, alabama, another state that votes as well on super tuesday. we heard from donald trump, a lot of moving parts to get you caught up on. let's go to austin, a veteran republican strategist in this state. also joining me is cynthia tucker and following donald trump's campaign, luke russert in bentonville, arkansas. we also have casey hunt traveling through texas with bernie sanders who also just held an event here in austin. casey, i know you're on the bus, i'll go to you first.
senator sanders being taken on by hillary clinton in her speech. she's also taking on republican rhetoric there. how is he feeling today knowing that it appears that south carolina is not up for grabs, but there are more battles ahead? >>. >> tamarin, still several days left to go on the swing. we flew out of south carolina this morning. no one on the sanders is campaign is trying to argue they're going to come out on top in south carolina. instead the focus is all down the line. big delegate totals up for grabs on super tuesday, the biggest here in texas. sanders is well behind clinton in the polls in texas. if there is a place where he he can rally support in the state of texas, you may expect austin will be that place. the margin will matter, if he
can try to close the gap at least with clinton, that will make a difference. you can hear in his tone, he's going more directly at lrn hrn than he has in some of these earlier states. clearly recognizing the stakes are higher, talking about issues of trade, but doma, calling that homophobic legislation. you can say he's getting a little hoarse. we've flown across the country with him. if he completes this tour as it's currently plan it will be 11 states over the course of 7 days. that's a pretty intense travel schedule for someone who's 74 years old. as an added bit of color as well. i'm sure you've been here in texas, he was serenaded at the end of this event in austin, by a band that included the daughter of willie nelson and granddaughter of woody guthrie singing "this land is your land."
>> that has to be good luck for something. i don't know if he pulls out a win in texas, but it gives me some love. let me play a little bit of what senator sanders said today. at the formula one track here. the crowd is assembled to see him. let's play it guys. believe that not only can we win this democratic nominating process, but we can defeat trump and defeat him soundly. we will defeat trump, because the american people do not believe as trump does, that we should be giving hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the top 2/10 of 1%. we will defeat trump because he is wrong when he says we should not raise the minimum wage above $7.25 an hour.
we will defeat trump because he is wrong when he says in a republican debate, if you can believe it, that wages in america are too high. we will defeat trump because he is wrong when he thinks that climate change is a hoax. it is not a hoax, it's a tragic reality. we will defeat trump because the american people do not want a president who insults mexicans, musl muslims, who insults women and african-americans and veterans and basically anybody who is not like donald trump. and thankfully most americans are not like donald trump.
>> and again, that's a little bit of bernie sanders in austin. do we hear from the campaign they may be rolling out any big endorsements before super tuesday. what do they see as their momentum going in? >> well, tamarin, i think they're looking at this point to make sure they come out of super tuesday feeling like they've kept even with the clinton campaign across this map. that will mean winning some states. places where they think they can do well his home state of vermont, massachusetts. that's the first time we're going to see him. they're looking to oklahoma and colorado also on the schedule for tomorrow. also places they feel they can do well. not really at the top of their list are these states across the south with these big delegate
counts. texas not likely to be a place where he can pull out a win. alabama, georgia, also tough. they do feel like if they can at least post some wins on the board, that make them seem to be running even with the clinton campaign, they'll be able to more easily hang in this contest, potentially all the way to the convention, tamarin? >> thank you very much. let me go to luke russert in arkansas where trump was holding his rally. luke, what's interesting to hear from donald trump, go into more detail on these federal lawsuits that he's facing, going through a great explanation that i don't think we've heard from him after rubio keeps hitting him, calling him a conartist. >> it was fascinating. donald trump explaining what the whole kerfuffle is about trump university. and marco rubio is hitting him up for that, saying, donald trump cheated ordinary americans out of thousands of dollars with fraudulent claims of attending
these seminars at this university would make them grow their business. trump hit back at all that. the litigant action was taken away from the case, and he's confident he can beat it. he can settle out of court if he wanted to. he was going to go all the way, he didn't want to sue in the future. the crowd ate it up, i think it was boring to them, he got into the legalese. the story of today's rally, is the degree to which donald trump is going after marco rubio. he came with chris christie, the governor of new jersey who got up and immediately started slamming rubio for missed votes. donald trump picked up where christie left off, saying rubio was the worst liar. had a fresh little mouth. criticized him for a real estate deal in florida. which benefited a lobbyist, said that rubio is hated in florida. he's trailing in 20 points in the polls to trump. rubio is a sleaze bag who is not
smart enough to get into wharton. you can see who donald trump is training his sights on now. it's marco rubio many mainly rubio going after him with his friend they know who's going to be their chief opponent. that's the reason he's trying to find -- i'm not like rubio, i don't take money from lobbyists, that guy's a sleaze bag. >> let me go back to our panel. we have with us cynthia tucker, thank you for your patience. let's talk about what we see playing out here in the south. donald trump being hit by rubio ads showing alleged victims of this trump university that he once backed. and now the super pac. >> it's interesting to see what the impact is going to be in
texas. we know that a third of the people who voted already are people who have never voted in republican primaries. the most reliable voters, what we call three and four r's who always vote have not voted yet. and in terms of the impact of the ads, that trump is running, we know that in other states, the late deciders have not gone for trump. >> let me bring knew as well, at the same time, and i thought it was interesting we're watching dual rallies with hillary clinton and donald trump, your two front-runners right now. she picked up before we were ending the speech there, focused in on some of the rhetoric here. we don't want to say things are over, certainly bernie sanders is fighting this out, despite the expected loss coming out of south carolina. but with ted cruz being talked about very little today, this seems to be tightening up, and the focus seems to be heavily on hillary clinton and a potential
matchup with donald trump. many of the republican party leaders say they're ashamed at him being the face of their party. >> tamarin i thought it was fascinating that hillary clinton aimed so much of her fire at donald trump today. even if she didn't call him by name, she was clearly talking about trump. she is beginning to behave as if she sees herself as the presumptive democratic nominee. the odds makers certainly think that will be the case after tuesday. it seems that she has all the deep south states locked up. she has overwhelming black support in the deep south. states she is well ahead in texas. and so it looks as though she's going to come out of the deep south states, well ahead in the delegate count. and unless something unexpected
happens donald trump will as well -- i have to say, i'm here in mobile, alabama. alabama has been donald trump territory for a while now. i was among those pundits who really didn't believe it, donald trump packed a stadium here in mobile with 30,000 people back in august. and the enthusiasm for him among republican voters in the deep south has not dimmed. and so the republican establishment is having to grapple with donald trump as the presumptive nominee as well. >> to your point when you look at the real clear average of polls there, he's leading by double-digits. still leading in marco rubio's home state. he will likely, according to the polls, he'll be in a tighter race with ted cruz, with ted being up somewhere around 8 points in some cases 15 depending on the polling.
nevertheless when you look at the map of super tuesday states, we can show it if possible, trump appears to be ready to sweep most of them, if not potentially all on tuesday. >> absolutely. ted cruz may well pull out his home state of texas. that will not be enough to save the ted cruz campaign. i think the reason that you see donald trump aiming so much of his fire at rubio now, of course, rubio has been firing at him since the last debate. so that's certainly part of it. but donald trump isn't talking about ted cruz very much, he's talking about marco rubio. i think trump sees it as a down to a two person race, if he can finish off marco rubio, i think trump, donald trump sees himself as having a clear path to the nomination, and now he's got chris christie on board, of course.
and the republican establishment must be pulling its hair out over that. >> sherry, you are the republican strategist, you know this state, you know the party, even the most conservative pockets of it, right now, the ongoing theory is, that donald trump will sweep, and the only way to stop him would be at a contested convention. what do you think is happening at your party from the intimate conversations you're able to disclose you've had with folks? >> one of the things that's important to remember, we talk about the tea party as a demograph demographic, but it's actually a movement. there's hundreds of tea party groups in texas, all those people personally know ted cruz, they know him well, they support him for a reason. they've been with him. trump cannot duplicate that with a big rally. >> in texas? >> in texas. >> but beyond there? >> i think it's a whole new ball game after super tuesday. things are going to shift, we're
going to lose some candidates. i don't think it's over, i think that what we're beginning to see in the debate the other night, this is the first time we've heard anything from trump about what his policies are. >> was that too late? the challenge regarding health care and his stance would greatly counter to some of that tea party support that you discussed was behind ted cruz, sarah palin, who has gone on to endorse -- we look at with the chris christie endorsement, donald trump was on a radio interview kind of now downplays his impact. he's the big draw here. counter to the guy he was standing with on that stage just now, but to your point, your party is now vetting, but has the train already run over and left underneath it all of these other candidates? >> i don't think so. i mean, we were the party of ideas. all these things are really important. >> have you run out of ideas on how to stop donald trump? >> i think that all the
candidates have some ideas, clearly marco has a plan of attack, and here in texas, we know that ted cruz has a strong platform, supported by a lot of people. it's hard to see how trump can overcome that. >> we'll see what happens. let's go to -- i'm being told we're going somewhere, and i don't know why, i'm not in control of this car, sherry, hang on. we're going to go to a quick tease right now. marco rubio continues to attack, as we heard donald trump aggressively, what he heard moments ago. we're still live on the road in austin, texas, bringing you the latest from all of the campaigns and we're keeping an eye on the voting going on. actual voting in south carolina, we'll be right back live from austin, texas. at&t helps keep everyone connected. right now at at&t, buy one get one free on our most popular smartphones.
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a nice crowd of texans behind me. also joining us live right now. one of hillary clinton's biggest supporters. tamika isaac. thank you so much for your time, you're in our second home as of late as we've been on the road. talk to me about today. the turnout was low as expected. i don't think it's fair to compare it with 2008. how do you describe at least the feel i feeling between some of the supporters for bernie sanders and hillary clinton still not seeing eye to eye? >> i'm feeling very good about today. we expect this to be a strong finish for secretary clinton. i've been at the polls today. there is excitement. it's not the same as 2008. but i think a lot of people coming to the polls, somewhat undecided got there and really
feel like they are going to vote for secretary clinton. i think after today there will be a lot of people talking about the last few days. i think the main story will be that secretary clinton will come out of south carolina with a huge victory and go into super tuesday very, very strong and really have a good finish. >> speaking of strong, if the polling information is correct, she will come out heavily favored by the african-american vote. you do have some supporters of bernie sanders fp and those who ask the open question. when hillary clinton can so quickly in this process secure the black vote, the majority -- does that in some way deflate the value of the black vote? should there been a longer, more competitive back and forth between these candidates for the black vote? >> i think there has been.
there's been several forums, i co-host co-hosted some. i think at this point, secretary clinton has not taken any vote for granted. but she's been working hard, and really her work in this state has been long. i think part of the support in the african-american community is she's a familiar candidate, people have been familiar with her and her work for many years. a lot of the early support came because people were familiar with her and what she had to offer. >> i know that you rallied and stood alongside barack obama, as he also won that state. when we're looking at enthusiasm now, as it relates to some of the trump fanfare, he goes on to get this nomination. the white anger that's fueled his candidacy. when we move on to a general election, you believe that the african-american enthusiasm you
saw with barack obama can be transferred to these candidates that will likely represent the democratic party here? >> i think the excitement barack obama had and that people had for him is unparalleled. i think the excitement that the african-american community in south carolina has for change in this country is going to really drive the election now and in november. i think people are really tired of people patronizing the african-american vote and not taking it seriously. the issues that are important to us. the issues of bringing families out of poverty. the issues of affordable housing. there are so many issues that don't get front and center in this primary election, but issues that are important to people in the african-american community. and i think our excitement and passion to change and affect those issues will drive people in november.
>> thank you so much for joining us. i know it's a lot of things going on both in your ear and behind me as well. we appreciate you and will continue to follow the developments out of south carolina. folks are still voting today. let me turn now to the gop race where marco rubio continues to go after donald trump. quite aggressively, here's what senator rubio said a short time ago. >> i think part of it is, he's not as rich as he said he is. he inherited money from his father, had he put that into a fund -- it's part of the fraud he's perpetuating. he's telling people he's successful in business and will do the same for america. this is a guy who's had his creditors put him on an allowance. we've had bankers calling us, all kinds of insight into donald trump. when he took one of his
companies bankrupt, they put donald trump on an allowance. it's part of what conartists do. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez has been following the rubio campaign. you know people are asking where has all of this information been before the debate. and with this flood gate marco rubio has opened, is it now too late? >> that is a big question right now. this rally just wrapped up here in georgia. calling it the largest crowd of marco rubio's campaign. he's added a lot to his stump speech. he's calling donald trump a conartist. rubio is hitting trump over trump university, over his finances, he's urging him to release his tax returns, the rubio campaign is expecting to release rubio's tax returns from the last few years this afternoon. just a short time ago you heard luke russer ert say that donald
trump was calling marco rubio a sleaze bag. rubio is not backing down. take a listen. >> he put out a picture of me having make-up put on me at the debate. which is amazing to me that the guy with the worst spray tan in america is attacking me for putting on make-up. donald trump likes to sue people, he should sue whoever did that to his face. >> rubio calling trump hair force one. rubio is saying that he will stay in this race as long as it takes. he keeps insisting his campaign will win florida. speaking with reporters just now, he again said he's prepared to stay in it as long as it takes. suggesting this could go to a brokered convention. he's heading to rallies in alabama as well as arkansas. and tomorrow he'll be
campaigning in virginia. tamarin. >> i want the to play this ad, one of the ones that rubio's campaign has put up attacking donald
trum. . >> i love the poorly educated. >> that's really what donald trump is all about. he thinks we're fools. trump uses sleazy bankruptcy laws to avoid paying workers, he bans disabled veterans from his high rise. he even tried to use eminant domain to kick a widow from her home. >> gabe, it's interesting, i've been listening to the pundits today who talk about the low brow nature of what rubio has said. when people have tried to fight donald trump on a higher scale like jeb bush and point out inconsistencies they say exist with his lack of experience, his ideas with health care, his lack of political knowledge, they lose. marco rubio then brings his
fight down to the level of donald trump and gets a big crowd in georgia. >> the rubio campaign feels it needs to go after trump. you'll remember several days ago and for weeks, really, the campaign was trying to stay above the fray. now they say after jeb bush got out of the race. after the super pac backing jeb bush stopped running attack ads, they saw this as a three person race between donald trump, ted cruz and rubio. they're seeing it as a two person race. they need to aggressively go after donald trump. a lot of that has to do with polling in super tuesday states. it's a steep climb for rubio. his campaign says they're going to pick up a lot of delegates. a lot of people in the republican establishment wanted him to go after trump for several days now he's doing it it remains to be seen if it's
effective or not, but he's bringing a large crowd here in georgia. >> thank you very much. we remain live here in austin texas. one of the most controversial topics naturally and here in my home state involves gun laws. a new law that allows people with concealed guns licenses to carry their firearms on campus, the u.t. campus not very far from where i'm sitting right now. this has led to a prominent u.t. administrator to resign. that administrator will join me live to discuss his decision being debated right after this. . ...earned you miles to get to the places you really want to go. with the united mileageplus explorer card, you'll get a free checked bag, two united club passes, priority boarding, and 30,000 bonus miles. everything you need for an unforgettable vacation. the united mileageplus explorer card.
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mass shootings this week. yesterday in washington state a man shot and killed four people, believed to be his family. on thursday a kansas man walked into his workplace and shot three dead and wounded 14 others. the issue of guns was not on the list of things discussed at the republican debate later that night. here in texas, controversy heated up this week. university of texas long time architecture dean said the new law played a major role in his departure. he joins me now in austin. thank you for your time. >> people have speculated on reasons behind your resignation. they've made accusations. is it exclusively because of the law that would allow people to carry guns on campus? >> no, it's not exclusively. it's a factor, and a significant factor.
it's not the only factor. >> what role did it play in your decision? >> i think it was a tipping point i love it in austin, i love the university of texas, i would always politely say i'm flattered, but no. and last fall after the hall was put in place or began to be put in place, i began to receive those calls, instead of saying no i thought about it and said, i'm going to be partially responsible for enacting a law i don't agree with, maybe i ought to look at some other places, this comes after several years of assaults on the public university. i saw it as one more slap in the face for public higher education. >> you look at some of the presidential debates, we know
where the senator of this home state stands on guns and the rights of owners, are you surprised that even with the shootings in the news that it's not discussed more in our debates? >> yes. >> why do you believe that is? >> i think maybe partially because the parties are already well known for where they stand on the issues. so it doesn't -- there's not going to be movement on either party. >> i know we had planned more time to discuss this subject. we had a lot of breaking news off the top. i appreciate you joining me and discussing this. thank you so much. that does it for this hour. our last hour live in my home state of texas, the city of austin. thank you for that applause, i'll pay you later. meanwhile, ari melber is in colombia, south carolina they're
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call us or your advisor. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. . a revolution is more than waiving a sign or wearing a pin. a revolution is jumping head first into the political process that means voting. >> i promise you, i will work as hard as i know how. i will be by your side, i will be your partner as well as your president. and we will make progress together. >> we call those 11th hour appeals from hillary and bernie, they're more like 11:59 p.m. if you think about it. democrats in south carolina making their final decisions in voting. clinton on her way here after
wrapping up an event in alabama this afternoon. bernie sanders splitting his time between minnesota and texas. he's looking ahead to super tuesday. the same story on the republican side. they're spreading out across those sec primary states all this afternoon. boy, it has been contentious as you know by now. some of that fire still burning today. >> this week where it became clear that donald trump's record is not that of a conservative. >> there's a growing consensus in this party that we cannot nominate a conartist. >> i will address little rubio. this guy has a fresh mouth, he's a very nasty guy. >> and a good afternoon to you here, i'm ari melber, we're in south carolina live on democratic primary day in this state. we're going to begin with the
democrats, hillary clinton is heading back to south carolina as we mentioned, four hours ahead of the polls closing here. her event in fairfield, alabama was wide ranging. she hit on all sorts of policies, especially college affordability. >> i am not going to ask taxpayers to provide free education to donald trump's youngest child. this is going to be for middle class families, working families, poor kids who are striving to be successful. >> we're going to get right to it, with two people who know hillary clinton very well, i'm joined by her campaign manager. good day to you both here on a primary day. a busy day for you. let's start with you marlin as a state campaign guy and a field guy. how is hillary clinton doing today, do you have any indication? >> don't know yet, but we're feeling pretty good. she's had a great week
campaigning here, our organizing team has done a great job. i don't know if you've seen the absentee ballots -- we feel confident about what we're going to see tonight. >> she's making a closing argument around policy with bernie sanders. that is not what she was doing several months ago. she was more dismissive. what is the argument coming out of south carolina if you combine a victory with the policy contrast she's drawing? >> from day one, she said this was going to be a competitive primary. that's something we embraced. there are policy differences as you mentioned, she wants to raise taxes on the middle class. bernie sanders voted against universal background checks five times. in contrast to the republican primary where it's nasty insults and barbs at each other. these are real policy differences, we're going to continue to talk about those. >> what does that say to you. hillary clinton out on the trail the past few days. she's been drawing the contrast
and saying, look at them, they're like kids, doing personal insults, it's really ugly. at least we democrats focus on public policy. the counter would be that there's a big market for political anger right now? >> absolutely. the middle class should be angry. they are working harder than ever before. more productive than ever before. billionaires like donald trump are making a killing, they should be upset. that is a key difference in this contest between democrats and republicans. when you listen to the debates on the democratic side, we're talking about how we get wages rising, how we help people afford child care andle th care. on the republican side they're just throwing insults. it's more tax breaks for the wealthy, not the middle class. >> if you are going to be a potential nominee against potentially donald trump, is this a cake walk? are you worried about him? this guy right now has had everything thrown at him on the republican side and nothing seems to stick, at least in that
primary. >> first of all, the primary's not going to be a cake walk. we're not taking anything nor granted there. we have a long way to go on the primary. the general election won't either. i think the differences as i mentioned in this race are tremendous. and donald trump is pushing the same policies that all the rest of them are. they fell over themselves to join donald trump. building a wall around this country. as i said, to cutting taxes to billionaires like donald trump. those differences are going to be clear, the race is going to be tough the whole way. >> what do you say about democrats -- hillary's running right now against someone who doesn't bring up the e-mail, who certainly doesn't bring up bill clinton's personal life or the impeachment history which donald trump has already shown a willingness to do. what is your campaign's approach to that. or are you going to say it's out of bounds and hope it goes away? >> nothing seems to be out of bounds for donald trump.
and certainly for the right wing. they're going to keep timing lawsuits, making accusations, the republicans in the house are going to keep investigating this, that and the other thing. i'm sure donald trump will be right there with them. this election is about who voters trust to fight for them every day. to fight to get them get a higher wage, to get women equal pay, we're going to stay focused on those issues. the right wing is going to say what they want. donald trump is going to throw insults. >> you work so much on the field side of it. if you build a strong delegate lead against bernie sanders which has been the leader in this race. do you stay past him? or are you fighting a two front war if you have a campaign opponent here with money who says he's not going away. >> our focus is to finish the primary. we are excited to travel across the country over the next few days. we'll be ready in states after
that, we have organization march 15th. as soon as we get enough delegates, we're going to be ready to take on the republicans. >> i don't want to end on too light a note. but i have a source who says that hillary clinton personally told you she does not agree with the beard? >> is that source accurate? >> she did say, we need to hurry up and win so i can shave my beard. we're in the primary season, i'm letting it grow until we're the nominee. >> thanks for making time. >> robbie and marlon, appreciate that. looking at the other side of the race, the sanders campaign, msnbc political correspondent casey hunt has been with him and out in austin texas. >> reporter: we just finished up one of the larger rallies.
10,000 people greeted bernie sander sanders here. kind of one of those peak bernie sanders moments here in austin texas. austin is -- if there is any place in texas that's going to embrace bernie sanders, austin has got to be it. hillary clinton is pretty far ahead of him in polls here. he's going to make one more stop in dallas before flying on to minnesota tonight. he's going to be in the air when the south carolina polls close, which tells you everything you need to know about how they feel about those south carolina primary results tonight. not expecting him to post up a strong showing, the question is going to be whether or not he managed to close that gap with hillary clinton at all instead, of course, they're looking ahead to the super tuesday states. this will be his third trip to
minnesota in as many days. they're looking to colorado, they're stopping there tomorrow, oklahoma, they're going to be in oklahoma city tomorrow as well. massachusetts and vermont. the challenge for them on super tuesday is going to be to try to keep even with the clinton campaign. as you know, that delegate total is going to be really tough really quickly, texas has the most delegates up for grabs. alabama, georgia, also put up huge delegate totals on super tuesday, and frankly, he's not looking very strong in the south. he acknowledged, don't say we're not strong in the south, it's a little tougher there. they think they can hold their own, that's going to be the challenge, whether they come out of super tuesday, if they come out in in a high profile way or fall back. >> we're going to take a hop and skip over to georgia, where
we've been watching ted cruz in this rally, speaking at a rally and talking about a lot of the issues on this campaign, let's listen in. >> we're one liberal justice away from the court striking down every restriction on abortion and mandating unlimited abortion on demand up until the moment of delivery. partial birth, taxpayer funding and no parental notification. one justice. we are one liberal justice away from the second amendment being written out of the constitution. and we are one liberal justice away from the court ordering veterans memorials torn down all across this country. torn to the ground. and we are not far from the court ordering the chisels to come out and remove the crosses and stars of david.
>> we've been listening to ted cruz at an event in georgia. speaking about the vacancy of justice scalia on the supreme court. and what he sees as an issue for him. for more on the republicans, we've been looking at the marco rubio campaign. they've been talking about releasing their tax returns at any point this afternoon. that's a broad sight against trump. he says he's under an ongoing audit. he's going to stay in this race to prevent donald trump from ever becoming the nominee. >> i can tell you this, i don't care if i have to get in my pickup truck and drive around the country like i did when i run for the senate. donald trump will never be the nominee of the party of lincoln and reagan. >> gabe gu teer air ez has been following the rubio campaign. two big themes today. this is the hardest we've seen him go at donald trump.
this is not the language of someone who wants to be a running mate on the ticket. this ongoing expectations game around when we get to see more of rubio's taxes, gabe? >> you're exactly right. this rally here in georgia wrapped up a short time ago. calling it the largest crowd of his campaign, several thousand people. marco rubio really going after donald trump. using such words as hair force one. coming up with all these new insults. what amounted as a standup comedy routine. he started this at thursday night's debate, he continued it yesterday at rallies in dallas and oklahoma city. he's certainly continuing it today. he's labelling him with a specific term. let's take a listen. >> i know some of your friends have bought into this. listen, friends, don't let
friends vote for conartists. it is time to open our eyes. we cannot allow a conartist to get a conartist to get the nuclear codes for the united states of america. >> he's repeating that phrase over and over again. with regard to the tax returns, earlier the rubio campaign had said we should expect it by the end of the morning. now they're saying this afternoon. this is something that was brought up at thursday night's debate. rubio said he would release it friday or saturday. but there's nothing interesting in them, so yeah, sure, he has no problem releasing them. the campaign also saying as much. but this is -- he keeps hammering donald trump on that issue of taxes. he says that donald trump needs to release his. he should do so because there should be -- there are questions about his finances. this is really a play to try to get donald trump to release his taxes. ari? >> nbc's gabe gutierrez, thank
you. if those numbers come out, i'm sure we'll be coming back to you shortly. chris christie campaigning in arkansas. saying rubio is worse in his view than senator ted cruz. >> this guy has a fresh mouth, he's a very nasty guy, and i actually thought that ted cruz was a liar, but rubio is worse, i mean, he's worse. >> nbc's katy tur is someone you may have seen before. she covers donald trump for msnbc and nbc news. donald trump gets a lot of air time. what i'm seeing here and you're closer to it than i am in that windy parking lot is, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, okay. the donald trump school of insult campaigning is it now being imitated by his rivals. what does that tell us? >> it's been wondered a lot whether in order to beat dorn
ald trump, you have to become donald trump. that's certainly the tact that marco rubio is taking insulting donald trump as much as donald trump is insultding him. you heard a lot of those sound bites, he's going after his hair, his family money. he's going after trump university. maybe talking about wetting his pants in the debate. he's getting personal, he's getting nasty, and bringing it into the gutter just as much as trump has been bringing the gutter to marco rubio. you talk to the cruz campaign they'll say that this is not the way to do it. what you need to do is come at donald trump from the right and that's how you're going to beat him. the rubio campaign does not feel that way, that's why they're attacking him on these more personal fronts. donald trump is, he's proven and shown himself to be kind of a master at insults. and bringing chris christie on to the campaign only adds to that. they're two people that have been long called bullies within a number of establishments.
certainly in the political circles in new york and new jersey, the two of them have been called bullies. the two of them unloading their firepower on marco rubio, certainly looks like a formidable thing. especially when you consider that chris christie is the one who took marco rubio out of contention in new hampshire, basically calling him a robot on the debate stage. rubio tried to use that to his advantage and against donald trump the other night. that seemed to get less headlines than it would have gotten. >> absolutely a huge turn of events there for the donald. thank you. coming back to you soon. i want to tell our viewers, we have msnbc special live coverage of this south carolina primary, with brian williams, rachel maddow and chris matthews who's going to be in south carolina all taking in the result as they come in. that begins at 6:00 p.m. eastern time.
do not miss it, we're going to take a quick break, when our coverage continues live from columbia, south carolina, we're going to give you the final push about we'll have a big twinnish, he's expected to claim some sort of victory, at least according to the public polling. we'll go to the real polling of voting booth next. before we go, a quick update. here are john kasich's thoughts on the tone being set by his fellow gop contenders. >> when did we get to the point in this country where we can call these kinds of names and have people actually represent themselves as leaders in this country to these young people? enough of this trash. go and tell people what you're for. incredible bladder protection from always discreet that lets you move like you mean it now comes with an incredible promise. the always discreet double your money back guarantee.
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welcome back, we're four hours away from polls closing in the democratic primary. hillary clinton expected to win big. she's not taking any chances. jacob rascon is at a polling place for us right now. >> orangeburg south carolina voted 71% for barack obama, by that measure, this is the most democratic county in the entire state with a big majority african-american. out of the more than 300 people who have already come to vote, which according to barbara who is a tax preparer by day, but she's a poll manager here, that is on par, if not more than 2012, but among the more than 300 people who voted so far, most of them who have been willing to express to us who
they voted for say they voted for hillary clinton. of course, not all. here's a mother and daughter who thought differently. >> i wasn't excited. i wasn't. i am now. she's been teaching me a lot about bernie. i knew i liked him, i'm excited to be a part of this, i really am. >> how did you do that? how did you convert your mom to bernie sanders? >> he had a town hall, and it was very, very, very intimate. i got a chance to meet him and talk on stage about police brutality. i think sharing that experience with my mom is what pushed her over the edge. i don't think she needed a lot of help. >> jacob, the main question i have, and i imagine some viewers have -- >> we also -- go ahead. we're on a delay. >> it's my fault, we're on a delay. i apologize. i want to ask you, given the coverage of this, a lot of folks
in this state have told me and around the country, seems like clinton's winning, she's up sometimes by 25 points. was that a factor? was there any lack of 24u678 or interest even from people who did show up, this thing's basically done? or as the clinton campaign said they don't want to take this for granted. >> that's what we've been finding. we're talking to people who say they have voted for hillary clinton, many of them will admit that they are voting for himry because she is the eventual nominee. you heard that mother and daughter talk about bernie sanders. they admit it after that interview that they don't know. they are not confident that bernie sanders can go all the way. but they said that they wanted to vote for the candidate that they believed in. a lot of people felt similarly, but they wanted to vote for the candy date who they thought was going to go all the way. we have noticed a lack of
enthusiasm, real enthusiasm for hillary. >> ari? >> thank you, jacob. that's interesting, of course, that's one polling location. we're going to be checking with our numbers throughout the state as the night continues. a few hours left for voters to make their minds up and their voices heard in south carolina. up next, we're going to talk to the chair of the state's democratic party, he hasn't picked sides, but he does have a lot of intel on how this is going and what to expect tonight. right after this short break.
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welcome back, we're here for primary day in south carolina. we're three hours away from the closing of the polls here. hillary clinton getting ready for what she hopes is a very big party here in south carolina. bernie sanders has moved on, he has an event in dallas, texas. and then he's headed over to minnesota. i'm joined by the chair of the
democratic party. have you not endorsed anyone, though you voted today? >> that's correct. >> you are a super delegate, you have that power, but you've told us you're going to go with your state. what can you tell us given your position about what we know about turnout so far and why some democrats have raised the concern that the overall turnout looks like it's going to be smaller on the d side than the gop side this year in this state? >> well, in terms of turnout so far, we know as of last night, there are about 45,000 absentee ballots cast. it's more than what was cast in 2008 actually. by about 10,000 absentee ballots. that's a positive sign. i've been talking to some of my county chairs and we're slowly getting in some turnout results. right now, it's a steady stream of voters coming out which is good. i don't think we will pass those
2008 level turnout numbers, that was a special election. having barack obama on the ballot. it was a special election, and this election just developed in a much different fashion. >> right, edwards had won in 2004? >> exactly. you had barack obama on the path to be the first african-american, had just won with a wash hillary clinton had just won new hampshire and then they were coming here to south carolina. so again, a different type of energy. this has been a contested race, but it developed as a contested race very late. and so all of those things are factors in terms of turnout. what i do see is, there's a lot of energy on the bernie sanders hillary clinton side with their activists. and the turnout so far has been steady. >> you made the argument that democrats shouldn't be afraid that republicans had such high turnout in your state? >> exactly. >> it's partly because how the race is developed. hillary clinton didn't announce -- and she was the
first democrat to announce in april of 2015. by april of 2015, there were already about 10 republicans who were active in their campaigns. it got to the point here in south carolina, i could throw a rock and hit someone who's a republican running for president in the state. at the height of the democratic race, we probably had three candidates that were running -- >> you didn't get that same spread. i want to play a little sound for you. hillary clinton has been talking trump. both these candidates have been talking about their electability. take a listen to this. >> i believe that not only can we win this democratic nominating process, but we can defeat trump and defeat him soundly. >> who do we mostly need to make partnerships with? muslim nations p.m. it does not help us to form a coalition with them, when a leading candidate for president spends half his
time insulting them. >> request we have some real talk? >> yeah, real talk. >> is hillary clinton really the best situated candidate to deal with the donald trump experience. >> i think if we got hillary clinton or barack obama, for me, or bernie sanders? >> which barack obama -- hillary clinton or bernie sanders can beat donald trump. there have been a number of republicans who are moderate republicans in this state who have come up to me secretly, whispered into my ear and said, if donald trump is the nominee or if ted cruz is the nominee, i'm either not going to vote or we're voting for the democrat 37. >> so you're saying that you heard reliably from republicans that trump will depress some turnout in south carolina? >> yes. >> the flip side of that is he did well here? >> he did. he will bring some turnout of some people who have crazy
views, views similar to that of his own. and that is granted. i think moderate, those republicans who are fiscal conservatives but moderate on social issues, he turns them off. >> is donald trump good at politics? >> donald trump is good at reality tv. and what he has done is, he's transformed the republican race to reality tv. the question is, will -- once he's the nominee, and i really do believe donald trump will be the nominee for the republican party. the question is, can he turn the general election into reality tv. i don't think so. there are enough even minded folks in this country. i know all the democrats are going to vote against him. there are enough independence and even minded republicans who cannot see donald trump in the oval office. >> in which case he would be fired? >> yes. >> it's a reversal. >> a reality show reversal. >> busy day for you, mr. chairman. i know we're going to see more
of you. i'm going to tell viewers what's still to come. senator ted cruz is betting that he's going to win his home state on super tuesday. what if the tables turn and trump takes it? well, that's not going to happen according to marco rubio. >> i will stay in this race as long as it takes. >> donald trump a conartist will never get control of this party. >> flying around on hair force one and tweeting -- so here's the one tweet he put out. he put a picture of me having make-up put on me at the debate. which is amazing to me, that a guy with the worst spray tan in america is attacking me for putting on make-up. donald trump likes to sue people, he should sue whoever did that to his face.
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texas has the biggest prize on super tuesday. we're in ft. worth texas and have been talking to voters there. >> where we are right now at the historic stock yards in ft. worth is right in the middle of tarrant county. tarrant county is interestingly sort of a microcosm of the state of texas as a whole. the results of this county mirrored the results statewide. i went to the rodeo last night to talk to some folks about where they're leaning. >> who are you leaning toward? >> right now i'm still leaning toward trump. >> donald trump? >> yes, sir. >> over your hometown guy ted cruz? >> yeah, i've been a businessman for 25 years and i think washington needs someone to take
care of business. >> i don't see cruz doing anything positive. i know there's a lot of talk about donald trump not doing a lot of things he's going to do a lot of positive things. >> ted cruz. >> ted cruz? >> yes, hometown senator, right? >> not only that. i think he made valid points. >> i would love to go for cruz, because the polls are in trump's favor right now, i choose for the winner. >> ari, as we've seen before in neff never and in south carolina and in iowa on the republican side turn out has been through the roof. that is no different for the early voting that's gone on in texas and ended on friday. there's only a couple days left before the big election. get out the efforts are crucial as they have been throughout this campaign and we'll see what happens from ted cruz in his home state whether or not he can hold off donald trump on super tuesday. >> we're going to go right to jeff, donald trump's arizona
state campaign chair. thanks for joining us. i have to go right to the issue. i've spoken to tax lawyers who say, there are good and justified reasons not to release returns while you're under an audit. that's for a normal citizen. for a candidate, there are calls for normal transparency. let me play for what you what ted cruz said about why your candidate should release. >> i don't know if you've heard, donald's kind of rich. if you haven't, he'll tell you pretty quickly. >> now, it doesn't hurt that he inherited $200 million from his daddy. that's a very good way to get rich, pick the right daddy. but maybe his tax returns show he doesn't quite have as much 347b as he says he does. gosh, i'm being audited.
okay, that's a reason to release your tax returns. so you're telling me a few months from now, we may find out you're being charged with tax fraud? maybe not. i'm not suggesting it, i'm saying release the returns and let the people see. >> he's raising the idea that your candidate could be guilty of a federal crime of tax fraud. your response? >> the political establishment is doing everything in their power to try to hurt donald trump in this election. they're obviously scared of what he's doing to make america great again. it's interesting to me that both the candidates hitting donald trump on this one, they were asked on thursday about their own taxes. they both admitted we haven't released ours either p.m. it's interesting that they can get on and tell someone else to do something they haven't done themselves. but where he's wrong. >> let me cut in and ask you -- jeff, slow down. let's start with what you just
said. rubio says he's releasing today and his release previously. cruz says it's forthcoming. if they both release, trump would match that and release? >> well, he had -- as donald trump has said, he will release, that any accountant will tell you, while you're in an audit, because part of an audit with the irs is a negotiation process and in trying to make the audit end. and so it's very wise personally. keep in mind he's violating no campaign disclosure laws whatsoever. there's no requirement whatsoever to disclose that. he already disclosed his entire summary of assets. if you want to know how much money donald trump is worth, there's an entire report detailing all $10 billion that was released well above the deadline. last summer. so that's already out there. this will not show how much money donald trump has at all. that's not listed on an income tax form. >> no, that's certainly true,
federal election law does require other financials released. there's no debate about that, this is going above and beyond, just like medical records which aren't required under law, but people want to see them for candidates. moving on from this issue, you look these campaigns over the past two days, anyone who has seen it, a lot of mudslinging. this all started with your guy. he makes things personal, he talks about how people look and their make-up and sweat, and all this stuff p.m. everybody's doing it, are you comfortable with that? it's fine. it's all tough politics? or is there a part of you who feels like, maybe this whole thing is getting a little too nasty and getting far away from the issues that this is all about? >> well, as it's become nasty has been when rubio has gone off the rails. he's obviously desperate, he knows if he loses his home state in florida in which he's down by double-digits, his campaign is over. if you cannot win your home
state, you cannot expect to be president of the united states. if they lose their home state, they need to drop out. rubio's campaign is on life support in his own home state of florida, he's getting desperate. quite frankly he's taken himself down a notch. we've all known that rubio is the most scripted candidate of all time with his memorized talking points. he got in trouble for repeating over and over and over. and now when we see this, you understand why they kept him so scripted. it's interesting to see if this is his trueself. i'm not sure if this isn't scripted. that crack he made at the debate about donald trump selling watches, it looked like it was off the cuff remark. and then a minute later his website is selling donald trump watches. other people are writing his material, we don't know what we're going to get with marco rubio. who this guy is. a guy who's never done anything in the working world, who's only
been a politician. who wants to be the politician and lead us, manage our $19 trillion in debt when he can't manage his own credit cards. >> i want to get you on record briefly. would you apply that to trump in new york? >> he's not an elected official from new york, i fully expect him to win new york. he's not elected to serve the people of new york, versus where ted cruz has been elected to serve the people of texas. if they don't believe he's done a good job. that says a lot. marco rubio was elected to serve the people of florida. they don't want him to win there again. that should say a lot about marco rubio, when the people he's represented don't feel he's done a good job. he's been there the least amount of time. he never shows up for work. it's well documented he has the worst attendance record in the senate. his own state is unhappy with him. how can he expect to be the president of the united states of america? >> all right, jeff, from the
trump campaign in arizona. we appreciate your time. we turn to super tuesday. cal perry is in downtown memphis, tennessee. i know that's one of many stops you're making. tell us what you're learning there out in the field. >> we're finding out that the early voting, and keep in mind tennessee is one of these states that people can vote early. the early voting numbers are luge. you compare them to 20 o 8 so far roughly 385,000 people have cast their vote. compare that to 2008 when 330,000 people cast their vote. we spent the day at a farm agricultural yearly convention here in memphis. and when you talk to people there, you really get a sense of why the trump message is gain traction. people at this fair, we're talking about the price of commodities and how the price of commodities continue to rise the price of seed, the planting that
they're doing. they're not making that money back any more 37 when you ask them, who are they going to support, they say trump. the reason they say that is look, he's a businessman. and really that's what's playing here. we understand that the early voting numbers are huge, not only because of trump, but also because of bernie sanders, we're talking about characters in a new election. people seem to be really energized in the state of tennessee, and while trump is way ahead in the polls which lends weight to that businessman theory, the democratic race on the democratic side seems to be a bit closer. it will be interesting to see if sanders can close that gap. he hasn't spent any time there really. a lot of candidates are noticing that, they love when the candidates come through tennessee, that is going to make a difference, ari. >> absolutely. and as the map expands, that matters so much, who's getting out there and whose message is getting out there. cal perry in tennessee, we'll be hearing more from you, we're
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south carolina democrats are hitting the polls right now. you're looking at live pictures. this is from a polling location in columbia right with us here in town. a lot of activity with just three hours before voting officially ends. now, we're going to go right to annie carney, traveling with hillary clinton. she's with a website called politico.com. it's a politics website, right? >> it is. >> we like to start even-keeled here. you recently had a story
basically making the point that the hillary clinton message and mood has finally settled in. there is a confidence or there is a mood. >> yes. >> and there are some themes that aren't just what people sometimes complain about, unfairly or not, which used to be called back in my day a checklist liberal. >> correct. >> oh, i do this, this and this and i stand for this, this and that and i'm the candidate for liberalism. >> she's been seen late to trade, but here in south carolina she's the candidate, it's like she's the candidate she's wanted to be forever because black voters here think she's authentic and they look at bernie with skepticism, which is like a flipping of the script from the way the race and the narrative has been for that. she has a long history on civil rights and they know her here, they trust her here. over the past eight years her
backing up of barack obama means so much to all the voters i've talked to over the past few days. they feel like it's an -- they talk about it like an obligation. she's had his back. it's our duty to support her now. but mostly this idea that she's suddenly the authentic candidate on issues. it's a complete flipping of the script. i think this is the race they wish they were running across the entire country. >> our own chris matthews has said democrats go with the hot hand. it has been republicans in past cycles that reward the loyal foot soldier, whether that's mitt romney despite misgivings or bob dole. it's a "it's your turn" thing. that's not happening on the gop side where governors have been dispatched completely, donald trump out of the blue and now you're saying it's democrats who are paying out loyalty checks? >> one thing is black voters here, they believe in her message of incremental change, which is so unexciting to the millennial college students that are into bernie's big ideals.
something about her resonates here. they know poverty, they know racism. they know change is hard. and they look at bernie's ideas of free college as saying how are you going to pay for that. i'm wondering also if -- suddenly i'm hearing so many questions about his policies. i'm wondering if the mix of just the population here versus clinton people have really been trying to get this out. they tell us all the time you guys don't give him like enough critique. you just take him for his word and maybe they're finally getting that out and like i'm hearing voters for the first time really saying we don't know how he's going to pay for that. >> because it's become a real debate. i want to play before we go ted cruz just raised the notion that donald trump may be guilty of a federal crime, tax evasion, which is breaking and interesting. take a listen. >> well, gosh, i'm being audited. okay. that's a reason to release your tax returns. so you're telling me a few months from now we may find out
that you're being charged with tax fraud? maybe not, i'm not suggesting it, i'm saying release the returns and let the people see. >> why is this the central issue for them today? >> well, i think it has to do with super tuesday in texas. it's like if ted cruz can't win his home state, it's done. he's leading there but it looks tight and marco rubio now has some bush backing, which resonates in texas, and trump is doing well everywhere and this is a serious allegation, as you pointed out. >> major. >> major allegation. they have got to do something to stop trump. this is kid of like the road is running out. it's texas or bust for ted cruz. if he's not going to play that card and try to stop him now, there's time to do it. >> it might come from political desperation and to blunt any momentum. ann annie, thanks for being with us. another reminder our live coverage tonight of the south carolina primary, we'll have brian williams, rachel maddow
and chris matthews. they'll all be having results for you starting at 6:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. that does it for this hour. i'm ari melber. i've been coming live from our studio here at columbia, south carolina, at the tap room. i'll also be back at 5:00 p.m. eastern. joy reid picks up the coverage live with a look ahead also at super tuesday. that's straight ahead. (vo) beyond natural grain free pet food
is committed to truth on the label. when we say real meat is the first ingredient, it is number one. and we leave out corn, wheat and soy. learn more at beyondpetfood.com good afternoon, everyone. i'm joy reid and we are back here live in columbia, south carolina, where voters have about three hours left before polls close for this first in the south democratic primary. hillary clinton and bernie sanders are both on the trail today, but in states other than south carolina. for clinton, it's a sign her team is feeling confident that she will win big in the palmetto state while sanders is looking
ahead to super tuesday as his opportunity to rack up delegates. clinton is on her way back to south carolina after rallying voters in alabama. while sanders is set to hold a rally in the hour in dallas. once that wraps up he'll head to minnesota while addressing his supporters -- addressing their supporters this morning, both sanders and clinton not only hit each other but also republican front-runner donald trump. >> i am not going to ask taxpayers to provide free education to donald trump's youngest child. this is going to be for middle class families, working families, poor kids who are striving to be successful. >> i believe that not only can we win in democratic nominating process, but we can defeat trump and defeat him soundly. >> meanwhile on the republican side, these are live pictures we're going to show you of marco
rubio at an event that's going to get under way in birmingham, alabama, where he's set to speak at a forum. this comes as a war of words between him and donald trump and ted cruz intensifies. trump fired back at his own big rally this afternoon. >> maybe it is that donald is not as rich as he says he is. i don't know if you've heard, donald is kind of rich. you haven't, he'll tell you pretty quickly. he says, well, gosh, i'm being audited. okay, that's a reason to release your tax returns. so you're telling me a few months from now we may find out that you're being charged with tax fraud? now maybe not. i'm not suggesting it. i'm saying release the returns and let the people see. >> there is a growing consensus in this party that we cannot nominate a con artist. that's how he got people at trump university.
they realized it was a con, and they lost their money and we're not going to let that happen to the country. >> i will address little rubio. this guy has a fresh mouth, he's a very nasty guy, and i actually thought that ted cruz was a liar, but rubio is worse. >> all of the republican candidates are spending the day crisscrossing the states that will vote on tuesday. our teams on the ground have it all covered. let's get right to it with nbc's gabe gutierrez, who's following the marco rubio campaign in kennes kennesaw, georgia. rubio has been stepping up his attacks on donald trump. give us the latest scenes from his campaign. >> reporter: hey there, joy, good afternoon. no kidding. marco rubio really escalating these attacks against donald trump. this rally wrapping up just a short time ago. the largest crowd of the campaign his staffers say. and they actually contrast that with a ted cruz event a few miles away. they say that crowd was much
smaller and that that demonstrates a shift and that marco rubio has this momentum, his campaign says, despite the attacks from donald trump and despite that chris christie endorsement of trump yesterday. as you heard at this rally marco rubio really went after trump, even more so than yesterday. he repeatedly called him a con artist and then he even ripped on him for tweeting from his airplane, which he called hair force one, even saying that donald trump liked to sue people. perhaps he should sue whoever did that to his face. that was a quote marco rubio actually said to this rally and this crowd was eating him up. eating his comments up. they were really responding well. and rubio also talked about trump's finances and how he urged him to release his tax returns. here's what he had to say about that. >> he bankrupted a casino. how do you bankrupt a todcasino? the house always wins.
here's what's not funny about that. any time he bankrupted a business, any time he bankrupted a business, the people who paid the price were the contractors he had hired. we're also hearing from them. i'm telling you, they are calling nonstop. small businesses that didn't work and he pulled his money out and he did what he needed to do and they never got paid. he is not some great businessman. he's taken four companies into bankruptcy. are you ever heard of trump air? it's gone. four casinos bankrupt in atlantic city. he is not some genius. >> that is a similar line of attack that we heard from ted cruz, both suggesting that donald trump is not releasing his tax returns because he has something to hide. marco rubio himself is expected to release his last few years of tax returns within the next few hours. his campaign says it should happen sometime this afternoon. now, joy, marco rubio is expected to have a rally in alabama a short time from now as
well as arkansas later today. then he heads tomorrow to virginia. this is going to be a steep climb for marco rubio. many super tuesday states he's polling way behind but his campaign says they can do well in many of those states. they're looking to pick up delegates in those states. they say that they will win florida. that's going to be a key state. his home state of florida, which votes on march 15th. but they keep slamming trump for what they are trying to label him as a con artist and they say that the republican party needs to unify and unite behind marco rubio. joy? >> all right, gabe gutierrez, winning florida definitely a must-do for marco rubio. thank you very much, gabe gutierrez, appreciate it. meanwhile today, front-runner donald trump took the stage with the new jersey governor, chris christie, in bentonville, arkansas, where both men took a number of personal swipes at marco rubio. >> i will address, you know, little rubio.
this guy has a fresh mouth. he's a very nasty guy. and i actually thought that ted cruz was a liar, but rubio is worse. i listened to this light little nothing say trump's a con man. isn't it a disgrace? whether when you're a senator and you're on some committees, you should show up for work. do you have to show up for work? well, let's see what marco rubio did. he says he's got great foreign policy experience because he served on the foreign relations committee. now, he has missed during his time in the senate 60% of all the meetings of the foreign relations committee. hey, marco, show up for work for the american people. >> nbc's katy tur has been following donald trump and she joins us from the site of donald trump's rally tonight. katy, it's interesting to listen to donald trump and chris christie doing their version of
the attacks on marco rubio. how does the crowd react? because it seems in a sense that chris christie actually does it a little better. >> i think that what marco rubio right now is doing is trying to essential low beat trump at his own game. he's trying to become trump and take trump down by getting personal. but he's also trying to do something that many people are wondering why he didn't do it earlier. he's trying to poke holes on his business record. donald trump has been running as a businessman, as somebody who can create jobs in this country and what marco rubio is doing is trying to poke holes in that. unclear if that will work. i want to talk to some voters. so you're coming out to see donald trump. >> that's correct. >> from tennessee. why are you such a supporter? >> because i believe thaet he remembers when the country was in a lot better shape and i believe that he is anxious to return us to -- even though you say you can't go backward, you can only go forward, his ideas and his outlook for this country is so much better than the other
candidates and he's not -- even though he can be a little argumentative, i still like what he stands for and i like the fact that he -- he's out for us. he wants to help us. >> what do you think of his business record? that's what marco rubio is trying to hold him accountable for? >> that doesn't bother me. he can he can't be a failure because of a business record. i do know there were bankruptcies taken but it was an individual company he owned, not him personally, so i don't look at that so much. it's obvious that he's very successful or he wouldn't be where he is in order to fund his own campaign. >> thank you for speaking to us, i appreciate it. that's exactly what we're seeing at trump rallies. the business record attacks don't seem to land here. people think that he is a good businessman. they point to his amassing wealth and they believe that he is going to create jobs. super tuesday is coming up in just a few days and it's only going to get nastier from here
likely, joy. >> all right, katy tur, interesting signs behind you. somebody is to young to vote but old enough to rally. meanwhile ted cruz is also in georgia right now and stepped up his attacks on donald trump's record. here he is at a rally earlier this afternoon challenging trump to release his tax returns. >> maybe his tax returns show that he doesn't quite have as much money as he says he does. on the other hand, maybe his tax returns show that he's been giving money to a bunch of liberal causes in addition to supporting hillary clinton and chuck schumer and harry reid and joe biden and jimmy carter and john kerry. maybe in addition to that last year he wrote a big check to planned parenthood. >> nbc's vaughn hilliard is traveling with the cruz campaign. all right, vaughn, how are those
attacks resonating on the campaign trail? >> reporter: hi, joy. i think what was interesting today at this particular rally, marco rubio and donald trump keep having -- i guess taking the headlines as the mano y mano battle. ted cruz just ratchet id up. he's going to arkansas tonight. he's kind of reinserting himself in this conversation and brought up the fact that, hey, all i'm saying is we need to see the tax returns. he even said could there be tax fraud in there. he's just saying just release your taxes, donald trump. >> all right. nbc's vaughn hilliard, thank you very much. appreciate it, following the cruz campaign. i want to bring in columnist jennifer reuben and also joining me editor in chief of reason magazine matt welch. jennifer, i want to go to you first because it does seem that the common denominator of what you're seeing from the cruz and
rubio campaigns is that this race is really still all about donald trump. are they winning if all they're doing is talking about donald trump, making jokes about donald trump, reading donald trump's tweets and making snarky comments about drmonald trump? >> well, donald trump is ahead of them so i think they need to get going. i guess one of the questions we're going to have when we look back on this is why they didn't do it sooner. i think they're smart to take on him personally and to take on his business. he is a very vain man, he's very thin-skinned, i think they're hoping to provoke him. it was interesting in the footage you showed there, he seems sort of tired. his slams against them are kind of generic now. it's like he's run out of material and they're much more entertaining now than they were before and maybe even more entertaining than he was. so i think they're right to go about it this way and they have a darn good point on the tax returns. >> matt, where are we as a country if the idea now is that one of these two people have to
become more entertaining than donald trump rather than making an affirmative case for their own candidacies? >> reality has struck the republican opposition here. that's how donald trump has gotten to be successful so far. he says things not just in the content but in the style of delivery that you're not supposed to say politically. and that's actually a very galvanizing and potent force among voters who feel like they don't like the rules and the morays said up in the acela corridor and the manners that you're supposed to have. so they're dishing back. one of the only ways to actually land a punch at donald trump is to laugh at him and god knows he is a funny dude. so, yeah, they're going after him finally. i think what it says, there's a great piece out in the "the new york times" today talking about the very impotent attempts to go after donald trump. the establishment has been terrified not just of trump but of trump's voters. in other words, their own
voters, their own base. they have been terrified of them for six months. i think that speaks very, very, very badly to the republican establishment and their approach towards their own best customers now and in the past. >> let's take a look, jennifer, there is a conservative group called the american future fund and it's attempting to take to television to try to go after donald trump by targeting trump university. let's take a look at that ad. >> the fact that
it was donald trump signed up. i made a huge mistake trusting him. paying $35,000, actually more than $35,000. >> it was all supposedly supervised by donald trump, run by donald trump. all of it was just a fake. america, do not make the same mistake that i did with donald trump. >> jennifer, is that kind of an attack, which actually is more substantive and goes after donald trump's actual business record, is that too little too late or can that still be effective in this campaign? >> i tend to think that many in
the media have predicted one thing or another continually and always been wrong. so the new line is it's too late, so that must be that the opposite is true, it's not too late and in fact a tiny percentage of the delegates have been awarded on the republican side. i do not think it is too late. i think you're going to see more of those. and i think part of the problem was not so much fear perhaps but they were surprised, like everyone was. they just think that donald trump was going to self destruct at some point. many of us did. it was unbelievable. they thought he was just going to go away by himself. that he didn't and he stuck around and they didn't recognize that for so long is going to be a problem for them. >> yeah, and matt, newt gingrich tweeted out yesterday that the chris christie endorsement of trump is a real signal to gop establishment that they better begin thinking about trump as
the future. do you agree with that? >> yeah. it was a very weird thing to observe. there was a spontaneous kind of response of revulsion towards chris christie yesterday. if there is such a thing as the establishment grassroots, the grassroots has been in a kind of open revolt these past four or five days. there's a big never trump hash tag going on on twitter where conservatives of good standing are explaining why they would never under any circumstances vote for donald trump. there's all kinds of vitriol being thrown at chris christie. it seems as if people are finally grip liappling with, he this might happen. the republican party itself might not last through november. this is the same party that did really, really well in november 2014. but if trump is the nominee, there are a lot of people and there might be one person on this panel right now who might not be in the republican party come november. that's pretty interesting. there's a kind of come to jesus moment that's happening right now. >> it's interesting that chris christie has decided to place
himself on that side of the line. jennifer, matt, thank you both for being here. i appreciate it. before we go to break, we'll show you what's happening in birmingham, alabama, where marco rubio is speaking right now at a presidential forum at sanford university. let's listen in. >> i watch the other night as another candidate on the stage of that debate spent 30 seconds to 45 seconds defending planned parenthood using the exact same words, donald used the exact same words hillary clinton does to defend planned parenthood. i've also watched them use the same talking points, for example, about the issue of health care. that somehow if the government doesn't run our health care system, people are going to die in the streets. i watched them also say when it comes to israel and the palestinians, he's not going to take a side. i'm going to take a side. i'm going to be on israel's side
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who do we mostly need to make partnerships with? muslim nations. it does not help us to form a coalition with them when a leading candidate for president spends half his time insulting them. you know, when you run for president, it's not just americans who pay attention. and when you are president, the entire world listens to every word you say. >> that was hillary clinton earlier today taking aim at donald trump. she's now heading back to south carolina where polls close in less than three hours. kristen welker is on the trail with the clinton campaign here in columbia. all right, kristen, we
understand that the clinton campaign is feeling mighty confident going into tonight? >> reporter: that's right, joy, they absolutely are. we are here at the university of south carolina. this building behind me where secretary clinton is going to hold what she hopes is going to be a big victory party. they are hoping to beat senator sanders by at least 20 points. that's the margin that senator sanders beat secretary clinton in new hampshire, so they feel that that would give her a lot of momentum heading into the super tuesday states. of course her big lead here being propelled by those critical african-american voters. they make up more than 50% of the electorate here in south carolina, but also a large swath of the electorate in a number of the super tuesday states, particularly throughout the south. secretary clinton hoping that she has built up a southern firewall, joy. she was in alabama earlier today campaigning and she's going to hit a number of those states in the south in the next several days heading into super tuesday. so again, secretary clinton
hoping she clinches victory here in south carolina. it would also be a bit of redemption. you remember that back in 2008 she lost to then senator barack obama, so she's hoping to turn that around this cycle. joy. >> indeed, and lost ugly. what do we know about this latest e-mail dump from the state department? i'm sure that will come up today on the campaign trail, particularly on the gop side. >> reporter: great point, joy. we know that, first of all, none of the e-mails in this dump were marked as classified but they do show there was a lot of sensitive information being discussed in these e-mails, for example, drones and that has shed a new harsh spotlight on these e-mails. now again, the clinton campaign has been very insistent that none contained information that was classified at the time they were sent or received. but the bottom line, this continues to be a cloud that hangs over this campaign and these e-mail dumps happening as
voters go to the polls. it happened in iowa, it's happening in this cycle, but it doesn't seem as though it will have any impact here where she is leading by huge margins. >> kristen welker, thank you very much, appreciate it. we are also waiting for a bernie sanders rally in dallas and that's about to get under way. earlier this afternoon sanders was in austin, texas, where he went on an extended attack on donald trump. >> we will defeat trump because the american people do not want a president who insults mexicans, muslims, who insults women and african-americans and veterans and basically anybody who is not like donald trump. and thankfully most americans are not like donald trump.
>> i'm joined now by msnbc's kasie hunt who has been on the trail with senator sanders in austin, texas. all right, kasie, so does the fact that you are in austin and not here with me in south carolina tell you anything about the sanders campaign spots on today's primary? >> reporter: i think it tells you everything you need to know about where they are as far as south carolina goes. i mean sanders has barely been in south carolina over the course of the last week. we touched down there for a couple events, but otherwise he's been hopscotching all over the country, not just to super tuesday states but also states that vote on march 8th, march 15th, further down the line. i think they are past the point of trying to manage expectations here. there will be some question about what the margin is. obviously that can matter to the belting count and matter some for the narrative going into super tuesday. but joy, i think you have to kind of look across the map. now of course we were just with him in austin. you played a little bit of that. there were 10,000 people at his
rally here in austin, one of his biggest crowds so far of the last week or so. but of course if anywhere in texas is going to be for bernie sanders or be bernie sanders country, it's going to be austin. you can see a little bit of the flavor of it behind me. at the end of the rally in something of a peak bernie sanders moment, willie nelson's daughter and woody guthrie's granddaughter played "this land is your land" made popular by woody guthrie, classic song. that said they don't expect to win here in texas. hillary clinton is far ahead in the polling here. of course it has a significant minority population, mostly latino. instead of looking to states in the south, they're looking more to the north. massachusetts, minnesota, call rald, potentially even oklahoma where he'll be tomorrow, joy. >> all right, thank you very much, really appreciate it, kasie hunt. joining me now to discuss the state of the democratic race is south carolina native jimmy williams, who is the founder of blue nation review and msnbc
political analyst and correspondent for "the nation" joan walsh. i'm going to start with you, joan, here with me in columbia. shall we put that map back up of where the democratic contenders are. i want you to look at that map. you wrote a book called "what's the matter with white people." it's very interesting and you started breaking down some of the issues of race and identity that sort of complicate things for democrats. one of the things i find fascinating about what's happening with bernie sanders right now is the map, is where he is strong and where he is weak. it does seem that what's happening is that he's starting to -- i think we have that map up, that are less minority. >> right. secretary clinton has really used south carolina as a proxy for the african-american vote nationwide. she's been very careful, she's been very attentive, she's come here a lot, she's coming back tonight, she's coming for a victory party, but i think she's also been trying to say, kristen used the word redemption. after '08 when there were a lot
of bitter feelings and missteps on the part of the clinton campaign, she's here to say i heard you, i'm here for you, and i want you to be here for me. she's talking to the entire nation of african-americans, not just south carolina. i think that's been very savvy for her. on the other hand, i feel for senator sanders. time is very limited. he's introducing himself. and i think his campaign, they talk about it rather openly. they have decided we're going to go where there is more chance for us and that tends to be in the whiter states. i mean to go to oklahoma, it's an interesting choice. we're going to see this play out on super tuesday, where she is going to be in the heavily african-american states and he is going to the whiter states. i don't know what this means when everybody comes together, which they will eventually, but it's an interesting dynamic and a tense dynamic. >> and it's ironic too because hillary clinton and bill clinton had a lot of challenges in new hampshire. things they said in new hampshire that reverberated here in south carolina.
how ironic is it that she is now so dependent on african-american voters? >> well, she should be dependent on african-american voters because african-american voters make up over 50% of the electorate here in south carolina. but, you know, the interesting thing is that you have to -- you know the largest voting block in south carolina? millennials. they make up 27% of the entire voting electorate, if you will. do they actually show up and vote? therefore, if you want to win in south carolina, you must go get the black south carolinians to come out and vote for you. that's happening. by the way, she's going to repeat that. of the 11 states that seceded from the union, i know that sounds crazy, if you win those 11 states in the general election, you win 59% of the electorate colle-- electoral co. barack obama, in 2008, 2012, he
won. hillary clinton is paying attention to southern states as she should. i'm not suggesting to either of you that hillary clinton is going to win arkansas in a general election. but if she can bank up those delegates and super delegates, she is well on her way to a summer convention where she will actually get the nomination. >> and let's look at those delegates, joan, because hillary clinton has a commanding lead at this point in terms of delegates when you add in super delegates. 503 to 71, which represents not just the fact that she's winning states but she still has tremendous institutional support. >> she does, although i don't want to make too much of that because if senator sanders was to surge, she had that advantage in 2008, as you recall action and i thought of people thought it was undemocratic and were not happy about it but in the end they did go with their states and in their district and in my opinion do the right thing because we want the voters to speak and they spoke. so i'm not -- i'm not building
that in, i'm not baking that in right now. i really am looking at her to start racking up the delegates with the voters. we'll see if that happens on tuesday and then in the coming weeks. but the next two weeks are everything for her. >> let's talk big picture. because the utility for the sanders campaign, let's say they don't do well on super tuesday or only do well in the states with smaller numbers of delegates available so they have a respectable day but not a day that can help them overtake hillary clinton. at what point does the marginal utility for the sanders campaign shift towards trying to make sure they get asks at the convention, meaning trying to get something concrete out of the run or are we way, way, way too early to be thinking about that? >> i think we're way premature on that. listen, it's going to be a money issue for both of these candidates, frankly. they're raising money from two very separate camps. and that's okay, you're allowed to do that in american politics on either side of the aisle. but if the question is if she sweeps super tuesday in these
southern states and then has those delegates locked up, boom, she's ready to go, will she continue to be able to fund raise? yes, she will. will bernie? yes, he probably will as well. again, two different camps of donors. but you've got to have that money to do those trips, to be on that plane and go to those other states throughout the rest of the country and i just don't know how that goes at this point. i would never prognosticate how it would work out. >> yes indeed, yes indeed. two of my favorite guests, joan walsh and jimmy williams, whose beard game is strong today, very strong. thank you both for being here, i appreciate it. we are live here in south carolina where the democrats are voting in the state's primary. even as we speak. so much more after the break. the orders were rushing in. i could feel our deadlines racing towards us. we didn't need a loan. we needed short-term funding fast. building 18 homes in 4 ½ months? that was a leap. but i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials.
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lead, 49% to 44%. somebody who's had his ear to the ground in the baystate, james pindoll, political reporter with the "boston globe." 41 delegates at state, proportional distribution. why is massachusetts so much closer than some of these other states? >> well, you do have this tension here where you have the white liberal elite in the metro west areas and cambridge as well in massachusetts, but this is also a place of blue collar dynamic here. this is less about cambridge or westin or wellesley as you may think about massachusetts of the ted kennedy liberal elite. it's much more about blue collar large cities. worcester or springfield or new bedford or fall river or chelsea. those are the areas where hillary clinton did very well in the 2008 democratic primary, defeating barack obama here, but it's also the exact same core folks that bernie sanders has been appealing to.
you saw this dynamic play out in some of the smaller cities in iowa like dubuque or burlington. you're seeing the same dynamic play out here in massachusetts. i will say, though, bernie sanders has had the momentum in the last month. polls showed repeatedly that hillary clinton was by far the winner with the very large lead and bernie sanders is closing the gap. >> we just showed a couple of the short of internals on the wbur poll, hillary clinton way out ahead on issues of foreign policy and keeping the country safe. when you flip that over to the issue of income inequality, a whole different story. bernie sanders leading hillary clinton on issues of income inequality and campaign finance reform. two-thirds to one-third basically when you look at those issues. in massachusetts, are voters more concerned about the bread and butter issues or does foreign policy count for anything with those voters this year? >> right. obviously if you look at these
results, combine that with where we are in that head-to-head ballot test between sanders and clinton, it's complicated. there isn't one particular issue that overrides the other. if there's one that you do believe is more important, you're going to go with one candidate over the other. i do think the picture is complicated as to why the state will be so hotly contested. we learned earlier today that bernie sanders, hillary clinton and even bill clinton will be in massachusetts on monday, just 24 hours before the vote here. it's seen as pretty critical. >> yeah. very quickly before we go to the republicans, does elizabeth warren endorse in your view? >> no. you know what, it's officially too late if she had. she could i guess show up on monday, it would be pretty bananas, but it would be hard to get that impact. >> let's go over to the republicans. this is a state where john kasich is expected to do pretty well. he's tied with marco rubio for second place in the wbur poll. is this a place where he might
be able to pull a surprise? >> look, he certainly put the time in here. he was here just a week ago with a number of stops. in fact he watched the south carolina republican primary returns from wakefield, massachusetts, of all places. and he is coming back on monday to have a rally in plymouth. but this has been largely donald trump country. massachusetts is not exactly the sebastian ba bastion of republicans, but the unenrolled and independent voters there are over independents and democrats, donald trump has the support here and has put the most time in here. he's already had four events in this state which is much farther than anything else on the republican side. >> james pindell, thank you very much sir for your time. >> thank you. now we're going to take you to a live look at the voting that is under way here in south carolina. there it is.
as democrats head to the polls. those polls will close in about two and a half hours from now. we will go live to find out what's happening and what's on south carolina voters' minds when we come back. first, we spoke to one south carolinian who said that voting is one of her family's top priorities. >> my husband and i had five children. and we told each of them that on their 18th birthday, their gift to us was to go register to vote. >> and did they? >> oh, yes. oh, yes. that was before it was celebration, a card or anything. you had to see that card. be good.
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it's a critical test of how candidates will fare with african-american voters. jacob rascon has been talking to voters all day in orangeburg. jacob, what are you hearing? >> reporter: we have our 374th voter coming in today. that's actually giant turnout for this area. this is orangeburg, as you said, voted 71% for obama in 2012. that makes this by that measure the most democratic county in the state. as i said, they have had big turnouts so far, comparable, if not more than in 2008, the last time they had a primary here. of course they come here and they have microchips in these machines and they will be putting these microchips at 7:00 over to the county. of course get those votes counted. most people who are willing to share with us who they voted for tended to vote for hillary clinton. take a listen. >> i have seen the completion of
obama's campaign and efforts and i want to see them continue. i think the democratic party helps most americans. >> i love bernie, but be realistic. how in the world are you going to get education, college tuition, free college tuition for everyone. that's impossible. so hillary is more realistic. she's telling people i'll do all i can. >> as you can tell, we have a few people in line here getting ready to vote. we do have a lot of people who also tell us they're voting for bernie sanders. you didn't hear them there. we had one recently, a mother and daughter, who said that they thought hillary clinton would be the eventual nominee, but they just could not get enthusiastic about her. we've actually heard that over and over. i've talked to people outside who have said, yes, they voted for hillary clinton but they
didn't have a lot of enthusiasm about it. others, of course, are very excited, hillary, hillary, hillary they yell and so it's back and forth. we'll see what happens. joy? >> already, jacob rascon, thank you very much. much appreciated. hillary clinton is expected back here in south carolina tonight. polls close a little from two hours from now. our primetime coverage of the results from south carolina begins at 6:00 p.m. eastern time. thank you. imagine if the things you bought every day... ...earned you miles to get to the places you really want to go. with the united mileageplus explorer card, you'll get a free checked bag, two united club passes, priority boarding, and 30,000 bonus miles. everything you need for an unforgettable vacation.
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rarely try to attack other republicans pause i don't like it. i think the democrats love when we do that. i think they cheer when we do that. but we've come to a point where we have no choice but to talk about some of these differences. what's at stake is the party of link lincoln and reagan. what's at stake is the conservative moment. i'm not going to watch it being taken over by someone who is not a conservative, by someone who is conning us. i've used strong words and my parents didn't raise me that way. i've used strong words because i feel that passionately about it. >> that was marco rubio in alabama just a short time ago defending his new line of attacks against donald trump. rubio will hold one more rally in alabama in the next hour before heading to arkansas late tonight. then he'll take his new trump offensive on the road to virginia tomorrow with four stops. the commonwealth is a delegate-rich state on super tuesday for both parties. joining us now is larry sabato,
the guru of virginia politics. larry, let's look at the latest polling. the monmouth poll has donald trump up 47-27 over marco rubio with ted cruz third at 14%. is the gist of the marco rubio attack, essentially a defense of the republican party and the conservative movement, is that the kind of argument that's likely to work with virginia republican voters? >> well, joy, it's going to work with some of them. marco rubio has inherited most of the bush voters and the bush donors in virginia. virginia has a strong republican establishment compared to some other states. that doesn't mean they're going to control the vote, and i think trump is well ahead in virginia as he is in most places. >> and for donald trump, most of the places where he's doing well, he's really racking up numbers among white working class voters. that's sort of his base. he's done some things people didn't expect, better with
evangelical voters for instance, in south carolina. is there anything surprising about the coalition that he's built of supporters in virginia? >> no, i think it's pretty reflective of the national coalition. of course the numbers differ. virginia is much more a white collar state than a blue collar state. you have those massive suburbs and exurbs in virginia, heavily professional, high income, high education. they're more likely to vote for rubio, there may be some for kasich, cruz is going to do very well in the rural areas. he has the strong support of ken cuccinelli, the republican who lost the governor's race in 2013 to terry mcauliffe, so you've got a split in the state. you've got every region being represented, and in the republican party you have disproportionately suburban, exurban and rural voters. >> let's go over to the democrats really quickly.
the monmouth poll showing hillary clinton real ahead, 60-33, but also doing better than she is in other states with voters, with younger voters, so voters under 50. sanders only leads her by one point, 46% to 45%. what do you think that's about? >> clinton is going to win easily in virginia. remember, she's got the strong support of her good friend, governor terry mcauliffe, and senator tim kaine who's on the vice presidential list certainly. he's also stumping for her. so you've got a lot of effort here on her behalf. what a turn-around, joy. eight years ago she lost virginia to barack obama 2-1. it was crushing. now she's going to win a similar size victory against bernie sanders. >> and is the same die maynamic play there, where african-american turnout for hillary clinton and bernie sanders having a difficult time making inroads there? >> i think minority vote,
african-american, hispanics in northern virginia, asian americans in northern virginia, yes, i think those are components. i wouldn't exaggerate that. clinton is getting a lot of white collar support, whites, white collar jobs, high education. the college towns are for bernie. you know, i'll be shocked if my little charlottesville doesn't vote for sanders or he doesn't get a high percentage here. but you go outside the college towns and you find that clinton is doing better here than she is in other states with certain voter groups, including whites. >> all right, thank you very much. larry sabato, the guru of virginia politics. thank you very much. >> thank you, joy. we're a little more than two hours away from the polls closing here in south carolina, a state where guns are a part of life. nearly half the households here own firearms. joining us now is msnbc chief legal correspondent ari melber who talked with voters about how the politics are guns is playing into their decisions on who to vote for.
ari, take it away. >> i went to the palmetto state armory, which is one of the biggest gun ranges and gun manufacturers in this state. it's one of the fun parts, interesting parts of doing this field reporting. we're here in the tap room but also go out in the field. so i went out to speak to any customer that we chose. so we went out and initiated contact with a bunch of voters. we found people who said they were planning to vote in the democratic primary, that they cherished their gun rights, some of them were worried the second amendment is in danger. at the same time several said they believe in gun control, they believe in gun background checks and screenings and many thought hillary clinton had the right balance. here's one voter i spoke to talking about that balance. >> if somebody wants to get a legal weapon, then i think they should have the right to it. if they have to jump a few hurdles, i mean that's okay. so things don't slip through the cracks and the wrong people don't get their hands on an
illegal weapon and end up doing something catastrophic, like what happened in charleston. >> like what happened in charleston, where access to guns was an issue in that mass shooting. several of the voters i spoke to there were african-american. we know that's a big part of the voting base here that were at that gun range, but this isn't just a partisan thing. nine out of ten democrats in a recent south carolina poll we put up on the screen support enhanced background checks. nine out of ten republicans with the same position. so bernie sanders has moved towards gun control on this. several voters said they liked that. they want top if he's going to stick that way. >> you would think that sanders would have an advantage on this issue in the state. >> if it was as black and white as we sometimes hear in the national press. >> this year, if we've learned one thing, nothing is as black and white as we thought it was going into this election. lots of surprises, thank you very much. that does it for this hour.
ari melber is next. he'll be right here. keep it here for complete coverage of tonight's democratic primary. we can look ahead to spl tuesday. it all begins tonight at 6:00 p.m. eastern. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. (pilot speaking to tower over radio) (tower speaking to pilot over radio) once you get out here... (radio chatter continues in background) that's all there is. there's just one direction. forward. one time... now. and there's just one sound.
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and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. raise your expectations. ask your gastroenterologist about humira. with humira, control is possible. good afternoon to you, i'm ari melber right here in columbia, south carolina. right now you can see a little bit of energy back there. we are waiting for our very first look at some of the exit polls in the democratic primary here. those are scheduled to be released any second and we'll show them to you the instant we get our first look. in the meantime democrats have just two hours left to make their final decisions, bernie sanders or hillary clinton. 59 delegates at stake and they are important for sure. as donald trump might say, they are just peanuts compared to super tuesday for democrats when, get this, 878 delegates
are up for grabs, plus, of course, 154 of those unpledged superdelegates. for republicans, 595 to spar over. new attacks throughout the day from ted cruz were aimed at donald trump, this time about his taxes. >> maybe his tax returns show that he doesn't quite have as much money as he says he does. on the other hand, maybe his tax returns show that he's been giving money to a bunch of liberal causes. >> couple of serious charges right there from ted cruz new this afternoon. here in south carolina, you can see the polls and they will be closing in just two hours. clinton looking for a very big margin here tonight. she is back in columbia after an alabama rally today. we go to kristen welker, of course, following the clinton campaign. i spoke earlier to the clinton campaign manager. he all but declared victory but
didn't want to get into the margin. how important is that margin tonight for them? >> reporter: great question. the margin is incredibly important. clinton campaign officials feeling incredibly confident two hours before the polls close here in south carolina. aides saying privately they hope that the margin matches or beats 22 points. why? well, that is the margin by which senator sanders beat secretary clinton in new hampshire, so they want a big win here. they think that is going to fuel their momentum heading into super tuesday and of course that becomes the focus once the voting ends here. i've been out talking to voters throughout the day, ari. there is a lot of enthusiasm. not the same level of enthusiasm that we saw back in 2008, but still a steady stream of voters throughout the day. many of them saying they are voting for secretary clinton, but not everyone. take a listen. >> why did you choose hillary? >> because i feel like she can make a huge impact as far as educationwise and teachers.
i feel that she can really change this country and move it in a positive direction. >> why did you decide to vote for senator sanders today? >> well, generally because of what he thinks he can do to raise minimum wage and get some jobs out there. >> that really speaks to you as a voter? >> as a worker and a voter, it does. >> reporter: secretary clinton not only looking for a big victory and new momentum here, she's also looking for a little redemption. you'll recall that back in 2008 she was trounce by then senator barack obama so she wants to turn that around. her lead here in this state right now being fueled in large part by a critical voting block of african-american voters. they are expected to make up more than 50% of the democratic electorate today, and they also play a big roll in those super tuesday states throughout the south. secretary clinton hoping that she has a strong southern firewall on super tuesday. now, it is worth noting that more than half of the delegates in the democratic race are up
for grabs over the next month. many of them on super tuesday, so it underscores just how important it is that secretary clinton gets some significant momentum as she leaves south carolina this evening. we'll know in about two hours, ari. >> absolutely, kristen. as they say, keep in touch. we're going to go now to msnbc's kasie hunt who's been in austin, texas, with bernie sanders. now, kasie, look, you go back far enough, bernie sanders would have been really psyched to have the position he has right now. yet as you know the mood and conventional wisdom can matter. there is a sense that with tonight he is losing, a sense that he is a real formidable l delegate challenger to hillary clinton. is that overblown? >> no, i think that's right. bernie sanders has been very aggressive in continuing to say that the length that he has come in south carolina still is a big
minnesota. he's going to be in minnesota when the polls close in south carolina, ari. >> racking up some frequent flier miles in those further states down the road. thank you to kasie. we're going live to one of the polling stations in columbia, south carolina. jacob rascon has been following this but we have something new because apparently a vip has come in to vote? >> reporter: yes, we're here with congressman james clyburn, jim. he's been out today surveying different polling stations. what have you been finding as you go in and see these stations? >> well, it all depends what time it is. i was out early this morning in santee. it was pretty light there. by the time i was in walterburg two hours later, they were voting heavy. i was surprised at the number of people i saw. down in bluffton, voting heavy there and this precinct, they're voting real good here. >> reporter: where we are, we have almost 400 people. that is almost where we were
back in 2008. >> yes. >> reporter: but we know all all of the precincts are having that good of a day. >> right. >> reporter: are you worried that voter turnout is not or are not expecting it to be as high as it once was? >> i'm not worried about it, i'm pleased about it. you know, when you have a special event like 2008 was, it was a very special event, you don't expect to match that. but i talked to jamie harrison, the chair of the party, who incidentally is from orangeburg, and jamie tells me that it's a little heavier than he thought it would be. >> reporter: you yourself had some pressure to endorse recently and came out for hillary clinton. are you confident in hillary clinton's chances in your state? >> absolutely, i'm very confident. you know, i said to everybody my heart has been with hillary from day one, but i stayed in the neutral corner because i didn't
want to do anything to mess jamie's business up. jamie relies on this primary and he didn't want me out in front keeping people away so i stayed neutral as long as i possibly could. but, you know, my wife of 54 years, who i met -- >> reporter: put the pressure on you. >> she wanted to hear from you. >> reporter: she wanted to hear from you. >> yeah. >> reporter: and the last question, are you confident in her chances in the nation? >> yes, i am because i really think that hillary got her stride here in south carolina. it's been a little bumpy because some things were unexpected, but she hit her stride here on the night before the debate down in charleston, i said to everybody around me that night, i said she is getting there. and i noticed last night at the fish fry here at the fairgrounds, she nailed it.
and so -- and did pretty good at the university of south carolina last week. so i think she can do well and the whole country will see this. >> reporter: thank you so much, congressman clyburn. thank you for being with us. back to you. >> thank you, jacob. there's no bigger figure in south carolina democratic politics than jim clyburn. so very interesting to see that live report, him voting. talking about jim harrison, the state party chair about voter turnout and a former aide to jim clyburn, like so many democrats here. we're going to turn to the republicans. marco rubio and ted cruz, if you've had a tv on, radio on or internet on today, you've probably heard they have been all over donald trump. cruz made a new explosive suggestion about he says why this republican front-runner may not be releasing his taxes. >> he says, well, gosh, i'm being audited. okay, that's a reason to release
your tax returns. so you're telling me a few months from now we may find out that you're being charged with tax fraud? now maybe not. i'm not suggesting it, i'm saying release the returns and let the people see. >> vaughn hilliard is live in perry, georgia, where things could not be any more intense between these candidates showing anger and using a donald trump tactic here, vaughn. it's this thing donald trump does and sometimes it's a laughing matter, maybe it's not when it comes to talking about federal crimes. but ted cruz is using that trumpian rhetoric where you're saying, hey, i'm not saying you're doing this, but here's this thing, let me put it out there. in your view as a cruz observer, was that a direct nod to the trump style? >> reporter: well, let's put it this way, ari. in the last 48 hours out of cruz and rubio action who's been the one to get the headline? it's been marco rubio who talked about donald trump peeing his pants, about makeup and
sweating. so really this afternoon is the first time we heard ted cruz ratchet up the rhetoric when it came to donald trump. he's been, dwrangranted to be c they don't mind marco rubio entering the fray and grabbing the headlines because they feel if donald trump supporters leave his campaign, they'll come to ted cruz and not marco rubio. when you lose out on the headlines, suddenly you're suggesting maybe there may be tax evasion which is what we just saw this afternoon. >> all right. vaughn hilliard, thank you very much. we're going to jump right over to katy tur who's with donald trump in tennessee where the rally is tonight. katy, what is the latest there? and in the mood question, is the fact that these other candidates are hitting trump so hard, is that being noticed by trump fans? >> reporter: i talked to a number of voters today and frankly they aren't paying attention to the news cycle the way that we pay attention to the news cycle.
they're not necessarily seeing all of the back and forth between the two candidates. but i asked them specifically about marco rubio hitting donald trump on his business record. marco rubio has been bringing up trump university, he's been bringing up his bankruptcy, his casinos, saying that he got this money from his father. he's not necessarily the successful businessman that he's painting himself to be, that he's a con artist. i asked trump supporters about that and they don't hear that, they don't see it. they believe he is a good businessman and will bring jobs to this country. part of the reason they're not paying such close attention is because they're sick and tired of politics and sick and tired of washington. anybody that's coming at trump sounds to them like somebody who is just hating on him because he's an outsider and not beholden to special interests. so these attacks marco rubio is lodging is falling on deaf ears, at least here ot trump rallies.
trump rallies are supportive of donald trump. most folks who come to these things say they decided months and months ago they were going to vote for him so nothing that has been going on the past few months has mattered to them. marco rubio and ted cruz, even john kasich, all going to have to chip away at a very hard rock out there. and that rock is going with donald trump. it looks like it will bring him to a pretty strong victory in a number of super tuesday states where he could potentially walk out with a number of delegates and a really big lead in this race. that's of course what the trump campaign is hoping for, that's what they think will happen but they are tempering examinations and saying they hope they do well. donald trump has said he thinks it will take two months to lock up this nomination. >> a hard rock is the analogy katy tur offers and maybe that rock is getting ready for mt. rushmore, we'll have to wait and see. katy tur, a pleasure as always. thank you.
now we're going to go for a little more to the ted cruz side of it, a former ted cruz campaign official and now msnbc political contributor, rick tyler. how are you? >> good, ari, how are you? >> i'm all right. a lot going on today. and we're keeping an eye on the republican side. ted cruz has generally tried, as you know, to be the conservative adult in the room. and when donald trump throws food, even if it gets the other kids laughing, ted cruz has said, you know what, this is dinner time, let's not turn it into a mockery. that seems to be giving way to a more trumpian ted cruz and he doesn't have evidence for -- donald trump can be attacked for a lot of things. there is no legal evidence of tax evasion, a federal crime. is your old boss overreaching? >> no. i think everybody has asked candidates to release their tax returns. mitt romney did that in the 2012 cycle and ted cruz has now done that. his taxes seem to be rather
boring. but donald trump has not done that. then he revealed in the debate that he had an audit. so that's very concerning. why is -- why is donald trump being audited? should people be concerned about that? is there something in the audit? remember, you said trumpian. one candidate, marco rubio, accused donald trump of peeing his pants and ted cruz accused donald trump -- not accused him but said, look, what's in your tax returns? so i think that's absolutely a legitimate thing to ask. and it's a bit of a -- it's almost like the birther argument. what if donald trump said for months, you know, what if you're not eligible, what if you're not eligible. and here ted cruz is saying what if you have a problem with your tax returns. so there's a little bit of parlay going on here. >> do you think that ted cruz waited too long to get this tough on donald trump? >> i think perhaps everybody did, including the news media, which has been very uncritical and very -- has not scrutinized what has been the front-runner
since really july. now he's got a head of steam behind him. look, the voters are angry. what we're seeing is really a realignment both in the democratic and republican party. people don't have the same loyalties that they did to the democratic party or the republican party, somewhat for different reasons. a lot of the conservatives feel alienated. the conservatives have won the house, helped win the senate and didn't seem to get anything for it. now we're being told if we just get the white house, everything will be fine but they have just about had enough of it. >> rick, look, you raise an interesting point that many candidates, your old boss included, have said, which is that the media gives too much attention to donald trump at the expense of other candidates and other issues. but you seem to be saying something a little different. you're saying also they have given him a pass and not vetted him. a lot of the press, particularly the print press, would argue they have done a lot of reports
about donald trump, about his business interests, about his bankruptcies, about trump you t university and that doesn't seem to be a problem for investigative reporters. >> that's fair but again, you asked the question about it all coming late and it's all coming late. and the investigative reporting, we've only heard about trump university only very recently. the bankruptcies have been there but we don't know a lot about them or why they happened. we know he left a lot of people holding the bag. you're right, he doesn't seem to be paying a price for it. so somebody has got to knock donald trump down. the problem is rubio and cruz don't have enough votes each to beat him, so really one of them -- one of them -- the theory now would be one of them could boat him but you've got ben carson who's a spoiler for the conservatives and john kasich who has something to leverage with ohio is a bit of a spoiler for rubio.
i would say that cruz has the best shot to beat trump if he got him one on one. i don't think rubio could beat him. but i don't think either one is going to give it up. so ted cruz i think will win texas coming up on tuesday and then it will be up to marco rubio to win his home state of florida and then we'll see, maybe it will shake out then. >> let's dive into who is supporting donald trump, because you're making arguments about what the sort of negative space in the trumpaigning is. let me just show you what's interesting and we'll put this up on the screen for folks. when you ask trump voters what they believe in, 67% have negative views of american muslims. 87% support his ban there and 55 believe up documented workers should deported. but then look at this. 45% basically half the trump voters in the primary here say they are themselves pro-choice. 50% want to raise the minimum wage, which is not, as you know,
in the gop national platform. ted cruz argued that was evidence that donald trump is not a true conservative. but can't you also see the appeal argument there for a general election that people are saying, actually it's not the rubio/cruz alternative, it's donald trump who can get people populist, a minimum wage or wider view of the choice issue, he might be the guy to build a national constituency for your party? >> except the problem with donald trump that his negatives are driven up so high. what's remarkable to me is donald trump is leading in virginia, he was leading in south carolina by double digits. but instead of acting presidential and riding that lead, you know, he gets himself in trouble. he has these unbelievable statements that he just -- it's almost like he just has to -- he's addicted to the shock value or addicted to the adrenaline of shocking voters. and so why -- if you're in such a lead, why would you just draw controversy continually to yourself. all he's going to do is bring up the negatives.
i think what you're also seeing is a lot of people who have been out of politics, who have not been paying attention to politics, who are frankly getting hammered, a lot of middle class, see that donald trump is going to stick it to washington. i think that's a large part of his appeal. they believe that he will, that he will change washington. i don't believe that he will because he's never done anything to change washington. in fact he's funded all the people who have made washington what it is. >> rick tyler, who has had an inside seat on this wild ride so far, msnbc analyst and former cruz campaign official, thanks for your time today. >> good to be with you, ari. >> great. now look, i want to tell you what's coming next. our programming note. the msnbc special live coverage of the south carolina primary results, that's coming up next starting at 6:00 p.m. eastern. brian williams, rachel maddow and chris matthews watching the results and giving you all the details. that is, as i say, up next. we're going to fit in a quick commercial break, but right after that we're going to look
at the ground game with people on the ground here in south carolina who have been out there and can tell you exactly what's been happening as the polls are about to close. and hillary clinton touting her record saying she's going to win over any republican nominee. >> i don't know who they're going to nominate and i am hopeful i will be the nominee to take on whoever they nominate. there is something to be said for all the scar tissue
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welcome back. we're now just 90 minutes away from polls closing here in the south carolina democratic prima primary. last-minute voters still have a chance to cast their ballots. these are live pictures of some polling stations where voting booths are open. i'm going to state
representative gilda cobb hunter who's here to handicap the races. for our viewers i will explain that as a super delegate you have not endorsed either
candidate so you come with your own mind and with no particular brief, is that right? >> no bias, my own mind, no endorsement, no endorsement coming. i'm not trying to be coy, yes. >> so we know that about you. and so what we ask you from a democratic perspective as a representative is are you concerned that no matter who wins tonight, there doesn't seem yet to be the kind of turnout, we know from the absentees and we're getting drip, drip, drip indications in today's voting, it may not be as high as the republicans? >> ari, i don't think any democrat who really understands the process would have made the claim that the turnout would be the same for the
democratic primary as it was last saturday for the republicans. so having said that -- >> the premise of my question belies confusion. >> no, the premise of your question does not belie confusion, the premise of your confusion is just not quite accurate on some level. but what i would suggest to you is that while the turnout has not been the same as in '08,
people have turned out. now, let me be honest and say, of course, i believe that there is room for improvement. and we've still got about -- not 90, but maybe about 88 minutes at this point. so there is still a possibility that it could increase. but in all seriousness, one of the things that as democrats we've really got to take note of is this business of lack of enthusiasm. i've been saying that for months now. so we've got to deal with that. there's no getting around that. >> the other thing i want to ask you about is what we're learning about south carolina voters today. >> okay. >> under the rules of the exit polls, we do not discuss how they're voting before the polls close. that ensures we don't distort the process. but we do discuss some of the other things we're learning. we're getting the first look at these exit polls. no single issue today stood out as the most important among democratic primary voters. the economy and jobs, though, did top the list.
that's a plurality of four in ten voters. another quarter said health conveyor was important and another fifth income inequality. for democrats, only one in ten said terrorism was most important. >> right. >> if you look also according to the exit poll results, south carolina is divided among democrats as to which candidate quality would matter to them most. you see it there, 31% cares about people like me, 28 for experience and honesty and only 11% saying that electability winning in november is key. on the jobs front, you combine the jobs number and the inequality number and it tells us that south carolina democrats, whomever they voted for today, according to these numbers are very concerned about economic progress. >> without question. i would suggest to you that the economic kitchen table issues are the priority issues here in south carolina. it's interesting the number from
health care because we are one of the states that refused to expand medicaid, so we've got several hundreds of thousands of south carolinians who are without health care coverage. so i would have to suggest to you, i am not at all surprised that income inequality, the lack of access to care and all of those are issues that are important. and it would suggest that -- i don't know what the final numbers will be, but that senator sanders, because that mirrors to some extent his message, one would think that based on your exit poll that those numbers suggest he might do better than people think. >> you make such an important point about health care. i don't want to do too much public policy on an election day. >> politicians do public policy, right? >> but you're hitting an important point, which is that the president got congress to pass the affordable care act, but in this state, as in several, half of that act was more or less blocked because it
was private insurance reform and public funding for public medicare programs, right? >> right. >> we have another round of exit polling among democrats and we see seven in ten, this is brand new, saying they want obama's policies continued. >> yes. >> so that would suggest that south carolina democrats feel a level of unity that they feel about the obama era. what does that say to you as you're up here? >> what it says to me is that we've got to figure out this enthusiasm gap so that in november we are able to continue the policies of the obama-biden administration. what it says to me is that voters not just in south carolina but across this country recognize that the obama-biden administration got us out of this hole that we were in after the bush years. that we've had over 70 months of continuous economic growth, job growth, all of that.
what it says to me is that as democrats, we've got to figure out how to join forces. i'm very hopeful that for as long as this primary continues, the contest between secretary clinton and senator sanders, i am extremely hopeful that we can keep it civil so that it will be easier to join forces, unite everybody, sing kumbayah, all that stuff because the bottom line is we can't lose sight of the importance of a democrat being elected president in november. i have no doubt that that's going to happen, but it's not going to be easy and we don't need to shoot ourselves in the foot by having a divisive primary and saying things that are going to make it very hard to bring the two sides together. >> representative, thanks for joining us on this election day. i appreciate it. >> sure. >> when our coverage continues here from columbia, south carolina, we'll look at the outcome of tonight's democratic
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welcome back to msnbc's live coverage of today's south carolina democratic primary. i am ari melber coming to you live in columbia. we have new exit polling to show you right now. primary voters want the next president to continue barack obama's policies. 70% of democrats say they want to see his policies continued while 19% basically say they'd like them more liberal. only 7% say they would want a less liberal set of policies. black voters overwhelmingly in favor of supporting obama's policies while white voters see things hopefully changing in a more liberal direction. 87% of black voters want the continuation. you see 43% of white voters want obama's policies continued while a slightly smaller share, 39%, are basically saying they want the next president to be even more liberal. we're going to bring in former ohio state senator, nina turner,
who joins me here. you are here because you've been out campaigning for bernie sanders. >> yes. >> depending on this state, that can be an easy thing or a hard thing. >> so true, ari. >> is it a hard thing in this state for you? >> i've found lots of supporters, but let's face it, we know that south carolina has had that type of relationship, that brand i.d. that the secretary has. i'm finding that people are really open up to what senator sanders has to say. >> and your view is that even if he doesn't win here tonight, which is widely expected, that's widely expected, we don't know yet. >> yes. >> but we have a lot of evidence that hillary clinton would be winning. then what is his message coming out of a big win in new hampshire and potentially what they used to call a thumping if it were to happen. what message comes out of here? >> we're just getting started, ari. they were in a virtual dead heat in iowa, he won new hampshire, she won nevada and here we are in south carolina. i think his message still the same, that he is running on a moral imperative, a righteous
indignation to really change how things are going right now in terms of making sure that the working poor and middle class have more than a fighting chance. that continues to be the message. >> on the electability piece, just moments ago we showed the first exit polling among democrats who said electability, who can win in november, is not a top issue for them, only 11% said it was a top issue. but this is politics. >> yes. >> the goal is winning. >> that's it. >> when you envision bernie sanders up on that stage against potentially donald trump in a one-on-one in the general election, what about bernie makes you think that he could deal with trump, a man who clearly is dispatching others who underestimated him? >> senator bernie sanders has that righteous indignation that really folks are looking for. this is a disruption election, whether you're on the left or you're on the right. people are tired of business as usual. and for senator sanders to be able to stand up there, witness to trump from the beginning and talk about that right
indignation, to talk about that -- >> are you saying hillary clinton is ill-suited to deal with a trump cad see? >> no, i'm not saying that at all. we know that the national polling shows senator sanders beats republicans by larger margins than the secretary does. even in this poll, this poll is saying electability is not important, but ultimately if democrats want to win, an not just the presidency, this is bigger than 2016. this is really about 2018. democrats went to sleep after we elected president obama. >> you know that as the down ballot. >> right. >> also when you look at the economic part, this is a place where we're seeing a bridge between both parties. >> yes. >> because we were up covering in new hampshire. some of the lowest unemployment in the nation. >> yes. >> and yet people were saying -- they were still mad about jobs, mad about the economy, systems not working. that was on the republican side. >> yes. >> here on the democrat side we see income inequality and jobs the top issues.
i was just discussing that with state representative cobb hunter. what is going on where even though the obama administration is quick to point out jobs are improving and everyone in both parties isn't feeling it. >> but the president, we got -- the great recession was a great recession and the president has done a yeoman's job. but everybday people, their wags have not increased. they're working longer hours and all of the wealth is concentrated with very few people in this country and it does not provide the opportunity for people to live a robust life. people don't get up for decent, they get up for good and for great and we lost that in this country. people are suffering. the more jobs that somebody has to work, especially itch they're poorer, the less time they have to spend on other quality of life issues. so we have to care about our brothers and sisters. the middle class is barely there. when you talk about the african-american middle class, forget about it. so we've got a lot of work to do on the economic side of the ledger. >> nina turner, thanks for taking a break from campaigning
on the field to campaigning on the tv. >> i appreciate it, thank you. >> a little excitement back here. >> i know, right? >> there it is. now, our own calip perry isn the road to super tuesday. you are approaching, i believe, a town in mississippi. what have you got? >> yeah, we're on our way through tupelo, mississippi. when you flip on the local media, they're telling people to show up two hours early. they expect huge crowds. when you look at the early voting numbers in tennessee, that really bears out. about 50,000 more people voting early in the state of tennessee in this primary as opposed to four years ago. when we sort of worked the room and spent the day at the mid-south farm and when you work that room and this is a yearly gathering of farmers from around the south to sort of show the -- excuse me, the newest in
agricultural equipment, when you walk around talking to farmers there, they're talking about trump. the buzz is about trump. it's because he's a businessman. now, the way they broke it down for me is they said take a look at like a bushel of corn. a few years ago you could sell a bushel of corn for $6, $7. now it's $3 or $4 but the cost is the same to bring that corn to market. the cost for the equipment hasn't changed. in fact it's gone up about 3% a year. so they're looking at a businessman. they want a new candidate, they told me. they're looking at someone who can negotiate better deals. so that topic, that sort of stump speech that trump gives is playing big in these states which really rely on farming and agriculture. these are people who are businessmen first, farmers second, and that's what they respect about trump. that, they say, is what they're looking for in a candidate, ari. >> fantastic. cal, i know that viewers can tweet you @calmsnbc to give you tips on where to go and we welcome that because you might
get good tips from people out in the field who know this better than you do. we'll check back with you later. still to come, the big fight to win the great state of texas. ted cruz expected to try to claim victory there on super tuesday, but donald trump, well, he says it's trump country. here is cruz fighting that narrative earlier today by posing a question. >> all the parents at home, would you be proud of your children came home repeating the words of donald trump? i'll tell you in house our girls would be in trouble if they use the language donald trump uses, and that's a problem. cash card from capital one. i earn unlimited 2% cash back on everything i buy for my studio. ♪ and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... that's huge for my bottom line.
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here's something you may have heard about, marco rubio has been hammering donald trump over the last two days, including at a rally this afternoon. but we have an update because things move fast on the campaign trail. at an event just recently later this afternoon in alabama, rubio started taking a different tone with the gop front-runner. and he tried to sketch out exactly why he's had to go after
trump so hard. >> i've used strong words, and my parents didn't raise me that way but i've used strong words because i feel that passionately about it, okay? i believe that there are americans today that are being fooled by this guy, i really do. >> meanwhile -- meanwhile senator ted cruz is facing enormous pressure to win his home state primary in texas. the latest poll shows cruz leading by 15 points over trump. 155 delegates at stake of course on super tuesday. jacob is in ft. worth, texas, and has been speaking to voters about who they're supporting. jacob? >> reporter: hey, ari, so ft. worth is an amazing microcosm in tarrant county, which is where ft. worth is, of the state of texas as a whole. if ted cruz doesn't do well here, chances are he's not going
to do well statewide. we went down to the rodeo last night at the historic stock yards to see what people are thinking. take a look. >> who are you leaning towards? >> right now i'm still leaning towards trump. >> donald trump, huh? >> yes, sir. >> over your hometown guy, ted cruz? >> yeah. i've been a businessman for 25 years and i think washington needs somebody to take care of business. >> yeah, i don't really see cruz doing anything positive. i know there's a lot of talk about donald trump not doing a whole lot of things, but i think he's going to do a whole lot of positive things. >> if i had to pick right now, ted cruz. >> hometown senator, right? >> not only that but he called donald trump out and i think he made valid points. >> i'd love to go for cruz, but because the polls are in trump's favor right now, i'd choose for the winner. >> reporter: so the early voting statistics here have been through the roof in this county, just like we've seen in south carolina and just like we've seen in nevada and in iowa and
in new hampshire, particularly on the republican side. now, if ted cruz does well in those votes and we went out canvassing with some cruz supporters today, he's looking pretty good here in texas. but anything can happen between now and tuesday and we're just going to have to wait and see. back to you. >> that was msnbc's jacob soberoff. next we'll take another look at the polls here in south carolina. hillary clinton is favored to win but some are shifting support to sanders. here's why. >> we had a town hall and it was very, very, very intimate. and i got a chance to meet him and talk on stage about police br brutality and i think sharing that experience with my mom is what pushed her over the edge. o, o, i hear you. to everyone with this pain that makes ordinary tasks extraordinarily painful, i hear you. make sure your doctor hears you too!
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we're now just an hour until polls close right here in south carolina, but we have some breaking news on the republican side of this race. marco rubio has just today released his taxes. this, of course, has been a big issue since the debate, when candidates sparred over the release. marco rubio putting out taxes for several years, 2010 to 2014. and we can say according to the associated press that he had a steady annual income of $176,000 during his first four years in the senate. rubio and his wife together earned an average of about $500,000 a year according to tax returns that came out literally in the last several moments. gabe gutierrez was with the rubio campaign for nbc and joins us by phone. what can you tell us, gabe? gabe, what can you tell us?
we've been trying to get gabe gutierrez, because this is, of course, a breaking and unfolding story. a little bit more background. the rubio campaign said earlier today they would release these today. at one point, early in the day, then it was pushed back. a few more factoids we are learning. rubio's income overall has ranged from about $250,000 up to $938,000. and he's paid in his income tax annually anywhere from $46,000 to $254,000. to put that in context, it may sound like a lot of money to a lot of people, but as we can understand it, in his highest, most lucrative year, in the year he made the most money in the last four years, it was 2012 and he paid an effective rate of about 31%. i'm going to try again to see, do we have gabe gutierrez on the phone? gabe, can you hear me? i don't think we do. and we've been struggling to get him. look, we'll go for an update
when we can. i want to bring in on the democratic side of the story here, dawn fowler, a man democrats in south carolina know well, a former chairman of the democratic party nationally and a longtime south carolina politico. >> that's good. >> yeah, an insider. >> i was doing the update on rubio, we had that, a little interesting. during to the democratic side, which is why you're here, and you look at what's happened in this state today, what is your sense of how south carolinians are voting, what it means for hillary clinton, if her edge is strong, as many expect. where do we go? >> there are really only two things of importance happening here today. one is what the total turnout is, and how that compares with the total turnout in the republican primary. and the other is the margin between senator sanders and secretary clinton. we will have probably 300,000 plus a little. that's compared with over
700,000 for the republicans. so that spells out the hills that we have to climb towards the general election. >> is that a hill or a mountain? >> well, it's a mountain, but we're up to it. we're young and sassy and ready to go. >> the gap between secretary clinton and senator sanders is important, too. if she beats him by 12 to 15 points today, it's over, because she will roll him up on super tuesday. >> you're saying, nationally over? >> yes, yes. because she will roll him over on tuesday, based on the margin here, and the enthusiasm that it will bring to her supporters and the discouragement that will come to senator sanders. >> well, yeah. >> so, there is something really important happening today. if it's close between 2 and 5 points, we go on. and it's a real horse race at that point. >> and in politics, there's
passion, and then there's breadth. there are people who win, they can win a congressional seat over and over and over, but they can't get 100 people in a room to have breakfast with them. >> gotcha. >> you and i were talking about this earlier when i was out in the field this weekend. and you were saying, bernie sanders did achieve passion here. talk to me about some of the earlier events. >> before he ever announced to run for president, he came through here two or three times over the last half dozen years. and even then, when almost nobody in south carolina ostensibly had heard of him, he had 253 people there. so he had a core of supporters here and when he announced, they came together and he spread his word and he's become more popular. i think he started too little. i don't think that he's going to catch her. >> right. >> come close enough to her, to really make this contest drag out much longer. >> right.
and that's what we'll be watching here with our special coverage. >> and that's what's important here. i've checked the turnout around the state, it's pretty good. and it's not -- it won't, it won't be quite half of what the republican turnout will be. >> well, chairman -- okay. they're telling me we've got another minute. the other thing i want to ask you is, you look at this race, you look at what we're learning in the exits, that south carolina democrats said either continue the obama policies, or a plurality said, more liberal. but sometimes we're told, oh, to win in the south, it's got to go conservative. that's not what we're seeing in the exit polling today. >> we're talking about a democratic primary, not a general election. there's a huge difference there. democrats in south carolina, a very strong supporter of president obama. and for that matter, most of the democrats in congress, the democrats in south carolina are moderate, moderate liberals and we're happy to do that.
>> so the ideology in a democratic primary is quite different from what it is in a general election. >> chairman don fowler, appreciate joining us. our special coverage of south carolina primary begins now with brian williams, rachel maddow, and chris matthews right after a quick break. medicare part d prescriptions, walgreens says, carpe med diem. seize the day to get more out of life and medicare part d. just switch to walgreens for savings that'll be the highlight of your day. now preview the cost of your copay before you fill. you can even get one-dollar copays on select plans.
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join us for real change. good evening. 6:00 p.m. on the east coast, where for one more hour, voters will still be going to the polls in the state of south carolina. we have an interesting night to talk about here ahead. yes, it's a primary night, but reporters are using phrases like victory all but assured for hillary clinton. so while we're passed that stor