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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  June 1, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT

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hillary flunks donald on trump u. let's play hardball. hillary clinton donald trump hard today. clinton called the republican nominee to be a fraud who took advantage of vulnerable americans and that's her line of attack. trump shows no sign of toning down his on rhetoric. he has also targeted the judge in the case against trump university hitting him in campaign rallies and interviews as someone he says is biassed against him. >> judge has been unfair, not done a good job. he's been very unfair. i will win the trump university case. i already am as far as i'm concerned. >> i have a judge who is hater of donald trump. he's hater. his name is gonzolo. i'm getting railroaded by a legal system that, frankly, they should be ashamed.
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the judge, who happens to be, we believe, mexican, which is great. i think that's fine. >> you think the judge has been extremely hostile to me. i think it has to do with perhaps the fact i'm very strong on the border, very strong on the border and he's been hostile to me. we have a very hostile judge. he is hispanic, i believe. he's a very hostile judge to me. >> the judge was born in indiana. he's of mexican descent. why is trump getting into this schoolyard fight once he's got the nomination all wrapped up? he's won this nomination. why is he getting into all these fights? ashley was at the fiery press conference. how do you account for the fiery nature of his assaults given the fact he can walk right into the nomination in cleveland? it's done. >> i think he is either incapable or unwilling to
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exercise impulse control and reign in that instinct he has to take every slight personally. he wants to send a message whether it's to democrats or republicans, if you hit him, he's going to hit you back ten times hard. he's not going to relent even though he's locked up the nomination. >> let me ask you about the judge. he's throwing the book at the judge saying he's concocting some bias or judgment of me based on the fact, simply, all trump seems to no, he doesn't know what country his parents or grandparents knows to come from. the only information he had is he has a hispanic sounding name. i just wonder is this represent trump's thinking or is this sort of working the ref. it doesn't seem like a smart way to work the ref, trash some guy saying he's biassed against me because of ethic reasons,
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doesn't like my politics. >> for trump is personal is a political. he blends everything that goes on with his business projects, his different ventures, here at home and abroad. he puts them at the fore of his campaign. he's not running on an ideological project. he feels compelled to defend it. >> isn't this dangerous to do this broadside on the guy's name and to make an immediate assumption he's biassed because he doesn't want my wall built. >> it's crazy to go after the judge who has your interests in his hands, basically. >> he says he's going to win the case. >> that's not a rational thing to do. the second thing is, it more than strongly suggest, i say it indicates this toward hispanics.
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now he's just underlying. if there was any way to drive his numbers among hispanics even lower than they likely will be or would have been, it will be this saying the guy's against me because he's a mexican. >> he doesn't know if he comes from barcelona. >> he comes from indiana. what's he have against hoosiers. >> yesterday trump punched at reporters at a press conference. he called the purpose to detail his charitable contributions to veterans groups. he didn't like the tough questions about commitments he made back in january. let's watch him. >> the press should be ashamed of themselves. excuse me. i've watched you on television. you're a really beauty. i'm not looking for credit. what i don't want is when i raise millions of dollars, have people say, like this sleaze guy right over here from abc.
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>> since wrapping up the nomination, trump has been on steady attack mode. let's watch. >> he's a president who has done a horrible job. everybody understands that. i see this low life tonight. i see this low life. i will never say this. she screams. it drives me crazy. she's married to man who was the worst abuser of women in the history of politics. hillary clinton has somebody -- did you ever hear of pocahontas, elizabeth warren. i won't talk about jeb bush. i will not say -- i will not say he's low energy. i will not say it. poor mitt romney. he choked like a dog. he's a choker. crystal's the one, he's the last one. he said trump will never run. he's not a smart person. >> you said you're committed to party unity. >> why take that fight on?
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>> she was not nice and i was fine just a little bit of a jab but she wasn't nice. >> okay. ashley, i haven't had you on so many times before. i am stunned you're the straight press, you write the a-1 stories and you're covering this guy objectively, what's his situation? i was trying to think it through. if you're a business guy like him, you can deal with business press in a different way. okay fortune magazine, forget about it. the political press surrounds you like a firing squad and he doesn't like it. >> i think that's right. he's now the republican nominee for president and he just seems sort of ill prepared and resentful of the scrutiny that comes with being a nominee or a candidate from a major national party. >> not defending him for a
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second, but isn't there a period where reporters and editors are using this time to do research and there's a lot of enterprising press going on now. i'm reading the papers, everybody's got an enterprise piece now about trump. it's really hitting him hard. he doesn't like it. >> sure. i think that's true. i think there's people working on enterprise about trump and people working on enterprise about hillary clinton. this is what happens. >> this week seems to be trump's week. >> when you run for president, you get good weeks and bad weeks. >> there's time for reporters of your caliber and ashley's to sit down and do the study and coming up with stuff like trump university that's driving this guy crazy. he's not used to this kind of scrutiny. >> he's not. he grew up in the business culture, real estate world, fortune magazine.
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now it's every day and he's loved it. he's ridden it for months. this is now a general election campaign. this is national as it gets. it's a spot like he's never seen even though he's a celebrity. >> your newspapers are not exactly like success magazine. they don't come out with the purpose, how can we shine up some ceo. it's not a purpose to shine up ceos and say how great it is that we have rich people in this country. >> not at all. >> why do row think he's squirming from anger? it's one thing to attack hillary and one thing to attack everybody, but to go after the judge and the whole front row with the exception of major garrett and hallie jackson, he hit everybody in the first row. >> i think he's not used to this kind of scrutiny and this is the way he got here by attacking everybody. the whole field of 17 republicans to attack and he attacked them all and he beat
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them all. i think this is in part, to the extent that he thinks this is the way he's going to win. it's by being trump. >> i'm not sure that the media -- the old thing about fighting with someone with a barrel of ink. the old argument still applies. yesterday hundreds of pages were unsealed in the case and salespeople were told to focus on people's sentiments. you don't sell products, benefits or solutions. you sell feelings. remind them that trump is the best. that sounds all right. sounds people would is suggest that students pay on credit, borrow from retirement accounts or use their savings. according to one document, we teach the technique of using opm, other people's money. a lot of people do that. one testified i believe ta trump university was a fraudulent scheme and it preyed upon the elderly and uneducated to separate them from their money. lawyers challenged that.
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trump said the majority offered positive reviews. hillary clinton is calling him a fraud. let's watch her. >> trump and his employees took advantage of vulnerable americans, encouraging them to max out their credit cards, empty their retirement savings, destroy their financial futures all while making promises they knew were false from the beginning. this is just more evidence that donald trump, himself, is a fraud. he is trying to scam america the way he scammed all those people at trump u. >> let me go to gene. this is this smart for hillary to feed off yesterday's attacks from trump?
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>> that's the speed at which trump will use. he is very much of the moment. it's smart for her to be of the moment. the clinton campaign sees this as a promising theme. he is a fraud. he is inherently fraudulent. he's not all he claims to be. he's not as rich as he claims to be. he's not honest. trump university thing wasn't a real university. there's nothing there. that will be a theme of the clinton campaign. and potentially an effective one. his image is of a successful billionaire. if you undermine that, what's left? >> you want to talk about my turf, let me show you the buildings i've put up. what have you ever built,
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hillary? talk about my business success. isn't that inviing him. i think he's in a slump. >> this was the line of attack made against mitt romney in 2012. it was devastating for mitt romney but mitt romney never owned his wealth. donald trump is proud of success, proud of his wealth. i think that would be an effective way to counter back. first they have to make this attack stick, which they haven't necessarily done. >> you mean about the fraud of university? >> yeah. >> robert can he counter attack. will he say thanks for fighting on my turf. i think it's dangerous to get into someone's business fairs because they know it better than you know it. >> this is who he is.
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he would rather talk about his brands and businesses than policy. if you're going to go at him like a political opponent, you should expect a fight because he loves to fight and loves to promote. that's what i would expect to see in response. >> what killed mitt romney was bane but the chop shop stuff. thank you. coming up, bernie sanders plans to fight all the way into the democratic convention. he's at war now with some of the biggest liberal icons in the democratic party, including former u.s. congressman barney franks. plus, what's hillary clinton's best strategy for a victory. long time clinton strategist says she needs to build up her own positive leadership qualities and not focus on tearing down trump.
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you'll want to stick around for the hardball round table. they're coming here to tell us three things about the presidential race you might not know including how the attitude of the sanders campaign comes straight from the top. this is hardball, the place for politics.
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president obama took some swipes at donald trump and his policy. >> in today's economy, we can't put up walls around america. we're going to transform our politics so they're responsive to working families and growing the middle class. we have to stop pitting working americans against each other. the republican nominee's tax plan would give the top one tenth of 1% a bigger tax cut than the 120 million american
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households at the bottom. it would explode our deficit. >> he's flying high. we'll be right back after this. we needed 30 new hires for our call center. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. (announcer) need to hire fast? go to and post your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards with a single click. then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. (announcer) over 400,000 businesses have already used ziprecruiter. and now you can use ziprecruiter for free. go to
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and hit purchase. so you can get back to whatever it is you civilians do when you're not thinking about car insurance. sanders has not shied from attacking liberals. sanders reacted to that news on radio dismissing brown as a member of the democratic establishment. >> i will tell you that in every state that we have gone into, we have taken on the entire democratic establishment, whether the governors or senators with one exception in oregon. it's not surprising to me that, you know, we'll have other democratic establishment supporting hillary clinton. >> the sanders campaign is also going after former u.s. congressman barney frank of massachusetts asking the dnc to remover frank.
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it reads the campaign has justifiable significant doubts about whether mr. frank is capable of respecting sanders supporters in what he has call their dumb and unrealistic viewpoints. this comes as a new nbc news marist poll shows a tight race in california. clinton leads by 2 percentage points. i'm joined by jeff weaver and barney frank of massachusetts who supports hillary clinton. thank you, jeff for joining us. >> happy to be here. >> are you still trying to remove congressman frank. >> he's been hostile. it would do a lot of people good, while they have been
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clinton supporters, may have played a less divisive role. i think a lot of people don't have confidence someone who is willing to dismiss that large segment of the rank and file can be a fair adjudicator. >> what do you think? >> let me start on a conciliatory note. i was happy to hear mr. weaver say 45% of the democratic party conceding that hillary clinton represents 55%. it's important tr people to understand that hillary clinton is likely to win the nomination not by any trickery or slight of hand but because she's been supported by a majority. secondly, i have been critical of senator sanders. i'm surprised to hear a sanders representative complain about divisive rhetoric. it seems we have been willing to speak out and be critical of
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other people. i don't think a one sided objection to tough rhetoric is relevant. the next thing i would say is this claim i had this long time opposition to senator sanders, something i said in '91, which i did say, back at a time he was claiming as an independent, he would be equally distant from the democratic and republican party. they forget, maybe senator sanders forgot to tell them that in the earlier part of this century, as a senior member of the bank committee that he ask i fund-raiser for him. i hope for the sake of senator sanders purity, they can scrub that. maybe they need to give some money back. finally, the role of the rules committee is a small one. it has nothing to do with any of the issues that will decide who gets to be the nominee.
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it enforces the parliamentary procedure. one of my hobbies is parliamentary procedure. that's why i was asked to do that. let me make this point, under the rules, senator sanders and his group will be able to issue, make amendments to the platform. i intend to enforce their right to do that. senator sanders will get nominated and make a speech. my role is to make sure that all of those rights that senator sanders has are fully honored. >> even if the politics are unrealistic. >> let me ask you about the whole, i do understand why, i think, from the outside why senator sanders is making this a fight to the end. he deserves to. he's raised the money. he's got a lot of things going for him. you have the doubtful question about e-mails and what that might do outside. he wants to wait until the super delegates cast their vote.
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they don't until you cast on the wednesday of the convention. how does he get a speaking gig monday or tuesday night at the sufferance of a the probable nominee that he hasn't conceded until he loses on wednesday. will your candidate fight this thing until the actual role call. how do you get a concessionary speaking, prime time speaking opportunity monday or tuesday night if the roll call is not until wednesday. how does it work? >> all this has to be debated. >> how does it work logically? >> why should they give you a speaking opportunity monday or tuesday night? >> it's not about giving. it's about over ten million people supported senator sanders. >> you will ask for a speaking opportunity on monday or tuesday while you're still running on wednesday night? is that the way it looks now? >> of course senator sanders should have a prominent role. >> even though he's a candidate.
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>> then it's a campaign speech at the convention. he's running as a candidate on monday or tuesday night and prime time against hillary clinton. should she get a prime time speaking gig too? >> sure. we'll work it all out. >> everybody's a grown up here. you're going to get a prime time speaking opportunity monday or tuesday night. you're still going to demand a fight on the role call on wednesday night. it's never happened before. explain what it looks like. >> there's a lot of things that never happened before. that's the point of this campaign. there's a lot going on that shouldn't be going on that we need to change. that's what bernie sanders is about. just because it's the convention in the usual way of things doesn't mean that's the way it has to happen this time. we're going have a discussion. of course. >> mr. frank, how do you see that happening in the rules? how do you allow someone to come in to speak for an active candidate without a speaking opportunity on monday or tuesday night.
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as i said, i'm exciting. i will say this. i am one who never said he should drop out. of course he should kobt to run. i wish he could not be that unfair comment that lyndon johnson made. he couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time. i would hope that senator sanders could continue to make the case why she should be the nominee while not ignoring donald trump. one of the things we have said is while at one point we're only focused on june 14th. we're not focused on what happens after. we know there's an election. things you say will have an effect later. i don't understand why his theme but also spend as much time on donald trump given that by the time the washington, d.c. primary it will be clear that hillary clinton has a
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significant majority of the pledge delegates reflecting the majority of the votes. given that, senator sanders speaks he's still a candidate even though it's clear he will lose, i don't see any problem with that. >> obviously, mr. frank thinks that bernie sanders is not criticizing trump, he's not over the 1.2 million people who attended a bernie sanders rally. >> that's true. >> i see the ads. i don't see any of the ads being critical of trump. i would say he never criticized him. i think the fact is overwhelmingly -- >> i haven't interrupted you. >> one at a time. >> why the chip? >> i think that is unfortunate.
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>> the last thing i saw of him -- his focus on it. not on the critical case for all the values that we share. >> jeff, one last question. why do you think trump is holding out his tax rirns? everybody says he will be under tremendous pressure. he's under incredible pressure. he keeps saying i'm under audit. >> maybe he doesn't pay as mump as he says he makes. there's something he's trying to conceal.
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>> there's something he's trying to conceal. >> he did release it. >> why is that? >> why not his tax returns. you said trump is hiding something. >> my release. why hasn't he released his tax return. >> the fact a politician is running for president -- okay. >> you asked about donald trump, chris. >> i asked why why woun he release his tax returns. >> fine. fine. >> you said donald trump would not release tax returns because he's trying to hide something. what is senator sanders hiding? >> everybody thought there was
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going to be something. >> it's when you don't adjust yourself to the question i just asked. why doesn't your guy release the returns? you didn't answer. >> he will. >> he said he would. >> can you give me a date? >> i'll be happy to get you date. >> then we're making news. thank you. you've cleared this up. >> as always. >> next, direction of the hillary clinton campaign play up her positives. we have the former chief strategist with advice for the democratic front-runner. this is hardball, the place for politics.
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here's what's happening. according to nbc pete williams, a former state department i.t. against trump on his university and everything. everybody's doing enterprise reporting against him. why isn't it smart for hillary to plow on, mark? >> i think she's got to have a mix here.
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take today's story about trump university. his idea of a university is something that people are bankrupted by. my idea of a university is something that people get an education and we get universal pre-k and universal education through first three years of college. she's got a balance between the negative. this race will be a run away. >> heidi, can hillary go improve her image? i don't know. the funny thing all time she was secretary of state, her numbers were going up. >> right. >> what did she do differently that's changed into a negative situation for her? >> the numbers coming down were going to come down over the summer as she became a candidate. that's among republican who is decided when she was secretary of state she was okay. she has a big problem today both on likeability and
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trustworthiness. i think the e-mail report is unfortunately, baking into the cake, the trustworthy numbers that would take a long time to change. i think she can do something about the likeability numbers. i talked to her campaign today. they're doing a number of things they feel to address that situation but like mark said, it's a two pronged approach. on a news day when you have something coming out as explosive as these documents being unsealed about these former trump university students and even teachers making the allegations that they're making, slogan as well fighting for you. she's got to show she has the fight. >> mark, it's unusual because you're one of the most respected guys around. i'm warming you up now for what i'm going to do. why do you have to go on television to tell hillary what to do? can't you get on the phone with her? >> sure. that's not the issue.
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>> you want to help her do the better job. >> i think the issue is, i think we've got to stop trump. the question is do you stop trump by thumping trump or stop by taking two or three issues whether that be education or infrastructure and pushing them along really strongly. >> bill clinton was impeached and he survived. he didn't get convicted by the senate. all through that he was taking hit from the media including everybody is hitting him. he still had 60 something percent popularity. how was he able to keep everyone jolly about him. he did have the situation with the intern, former intern and all the time his numbers are going. it's not a function of good economic and how can hillary learn from her husband. >> i live through that for a year.
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i'm not here today to talk about this. i'm here to talk about education. every day he kept the public focus he was doing his job and doing a great job as president. yes, that kept his ratings above 50%. the minute you fall below 50%, everybody piles on. that's the mission that she's got to emphasize. getting above 50 is a critical mission and she will wipe trump out. >> i think that's part the ability of bill clinton to compartmentalize his being. most people have had a little rob with the media, his ability to just absorb that and fly high. can hillary do that? just be happy no matter how many shots are coming against you. >> i guess that's to be seen.
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i disagree a little bit with mark on making this an issues campaign. i don't think it's an issues campaign for a number of reasons. donald trump can box her out to the right. he can box her out to the left. he's been all over the place on a number of issues. he's really kind of more of a populist. the campaign is framing this around the temperament issue and do you want someone like this having the nuclear codes and nd of do you want him to be -- do you see someone like this being the commander in chief. >> i think the dangerous thing does work.
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there's not a lot of dream there. there's not a lot of hope. thank you. it's a great argument. up next, the hardball roundtable is coming here with a look at bernie sanders and what's behind his ongoing attacks against the democratic party. he's hitting everybody. hardball, the place for politics, coming back.
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welcome back. we just heard sanders campaign manager hitting democrats and vowing his candidate will fight on despite the odds. josh marshal wrote about who is behind the campaigns attacking saying it comes from the top. for months i'd written and
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written that jeff weaver was the key driver of toxicity, but now i realize i had that wrong. it should have been obvious for me that the tone and tenor comes from the top. so, josh, explain this thing about this. i do believe in the basic theme, i think it was mike dukakis who said the fish run from the top. how do you describe it? >> i think it's a mix of sort of an insurgent mentality and lot of denial. i think some of it is from the candidate. some of it is from the supporters. there's always a synergy going on. when i wrote that post it was after talking to a lot of people and getting a sense of what it was like on the inside. as i said, it should have been obvious to me, campaign is really defined by the candidate. from what i heard, sanders has a
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bit of a temper. that plays out a certain way in a primary. >> part of this is pr. he transmits a message to his supporters out in california, especially now, we can still win this thing. even though the numbers aren't there. hillary is way ahead. it's not about the super delegates. >> just sort of fall off a cliff in direction of him. that's the only way. >> it is what he's selling. >> he can still affect a lot of change in the democratic party. there's still a lot he can do. if he throws in towel now -- >> when does he throw it in? before the convention. >> certainly before california. what he's been saying all along is everyone should have their say and the chance to weigh in
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on this. he's taking a lot of shots at barbara boxer and jerry brown. this is a fighting man now. >> it's a big deal if you're barney frank. i'm sorry, bernie sanders and you want to force changes on the platform. >> you think he should have to become a democrat under the rules, join the party? >> it's not my party. >> i'm wondering what the rules say. he says he will become a democrat after this election. if he runs for the senate, he will be a democrat. i don't believe that.
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>> it's not how long he stays in the race, it's that he has been basing his campaign less and less on social democratic policies that he supports and more and more on this idea that he's been robbed. >> that is so third world. that is what happens in all the developing countries. if you lose an election it was stolen from you. it's like can't be fair if i lose. there must be something wrong. i was robbed. >> that's a problem with his narrative it's if he loses he was robbed. and if he wins, it's okay. >> now he's going to say i lost fair and square? does anyone expect that? >> he said the rules were the rules. we knew what the rules were going in. i've seen him try to temper it a bit.
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it's slap in face for him to have rally on the day. >> she then came back and worked pretty hard. >> she gave one of the great positive speeches she's ever given at that convention. i know if bernie will do that. barney night. the round table is accident in questioning with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. this is hardball, the place for politics.
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some fun numbers in a new poll today. they asked who would you rather have come to your aid when you have a personal crisis, clinton or trump? 47% said hillary clinton and 41% said donald trump. another one, who would you rather invite to your backyard barbecue? 47% trump and 39% clinton. interesting. we'll be right back.
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tell me something i don't know. >> we have a piece coming out tomorrow and one thing in there is that trump is rallying
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against the law firm that's hitting in california over the university. the lead attorney for the plaintiffs is the same guy who handled the duke cunningham case years ago. >> now he's going after trump. >> yeah. >> look for hillary clinton to double down on asian-american voters in california. right now -- >> what's the percent of the democratic vote out there that's asian-american. >> api groups are saying it could be 10% or higher and hillary clinton has done a fair bit of api events more so than other candidate address and some people say they're where hispanics and latinos were years ago, a little under the radar, so she's looking to court those voters now.
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>> they're 4% nationally. >> my fact is about that trump lawsuit. it turns out according to a piece the same law firm that is helping do the class action lawsuit is part of the hillary clinton speaking fee network. the firm has paid bill and hillary clinton $675,000 in speaking fees and is now organizing a class action against donald trump. i'm sure it's a coincidence. >> we know a lot about that. when we return let me finish by paying tribute to an outlying hero of the equality movement.
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let me finish tonight by paying tribute to an outlying hero of the equality movement, barry goldwater. he said politics has no business in the bedroom. he argues in his great new book "we the people" you might think back to the declaration of the presidential candidate. he wanted to trace the evolution of human rights from the founding rights to gay rights and reserving that long line of progress to goldwater. he argued they arise for the reverence for the constitution and guarantees of personal liberty. he denounced the military's don't ask don't tell policy. you don't have to agree with it he told a reporter.
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politics has no business in the bed room. ekwal rights to apply to all americans. founding fathers and would under mine the idea of a nation of law that promises equal rights to all. i'm not surprised to dr. king and the kennedys and others who have shaped the founding father's vision of what america is today. the author of we the people deserves credit for placing the name of barry goldwater on the list. all in with chris hayes starts right now p tonight on all in. right now tonight on all in. >> today we're learning about another scam. the so-called trump university. >> no trump university
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revelations bolster the clinton line of attack. >> this is just more evidence that donald trump himself is a fraud. >> tonight, how mitt romney and marco rubio laid the ground work for clinton's case and how the trump campaign is responding. >> at trump university we teach success. that's what it's all about, success. it's going to happen to you. >> then. >> the president used the word rattled when he talked about world leaders with respect to donald trump. trump responded by saying it's good, it's good they're rattled. >> we're not doing a trump hotel business deal. >> my interview with secretary of state john kerry and donald trump's puzzling takes on peter teal and what book he says he's reading right now. author michael wolf on his new trump profile when all in starts right now. goodve


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