tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC June 6, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am PDT
>> the sense that secretary clinton and sanders wanted it last night. the decision desk is an independent unit. we have been doing it since the beginning of the primary season as we have been tracking these folks and allocating the pledge delegates. we knew once we hit the number we would go over. the super delegates are different because it is an interview process.
so when people will come forward and make the announcements, we did not know. we did not know until too long ago that we were go to go over like going into the day there was 113 of the super delegates that had not announced the support. we got them in about a dozen state where is people announced today. >> so the argument that the sanders campaign has been making, and i would like to you respond to it. they have a strong opinion on this. i think it is driven by principle and in the midst of the race they want people to come out and vote tomorrow that basically the super delegates can change their mind. not an actual vote. vote is only cast at the convention. and that this call is essentially premature because those folks are just folks showing up on the convention to cast the vote then. to say what they are supporting is premature. what do you say to that? >> it is what it is. it is true they don't make a
formal decisions until the convention and i think that secretary clinton and senator sanders want people to turn out to vote tomorrow. again, you know, we did not know when this was going to happen. it depended in the states and the supers. the democratic party is the one that decides the rules. it is not us. >> thank you, john. really appreciate it. joining me now on the form, the former michigan governor on the board of the pro clinton super pact correct the record. are you there? >> i am. >> great. you just already the explanation of the thinking here, i think clinton supporters are greeting the news with excitement, elation and head scratching because it does not have the culmination feeling one has
after a victory at the polls that was being anticipated tomorrow. what is your reaction? >> i think ambivalence is a really good way of putting it. when you introduced the show saying we have made history it literally gave me goose bumps. but on the other hand, you have to respect democracy. there are millions of people that are set to vote tomorrow and you do not want to deprive them or stomp on their rights to be able to feel like it is an untainted choice. i think everybody on team clinton so wants people to get out and vote tomorrow. nobody is claiming victory this evening. we want tomorrow to happen to respect democracy. >> has your thinking about the process by which the democratic process makes the determination has the hybrid delegates unlike
the republican party. it awards pledged delegates and then the super delegates are party leaders, elders, institutional members. do you think that is a good idea? did you change your mind? do you still think it is a good thing to have them? >> i think it is definitely worthy of discussion at the convention. nobody will change it this time around. if it is a democratic party, you want it to be a democratic process and you want the majority of people to have the right to vote. super delegates put in place for a specific region to temper the raging masses. i am not sure that is necessary anymore. as many as we have, perhaps that is a discussion. bottom line i think a lot of the process kind of question is something that will be, i think bernie sanders will be pushing on the platform. i think it is a discussion definitely worth having. >> we should note because super
delegates is what triggered the decision desk's call, that in terms of pledge delegates, the delegates awarded through caucusing or primary votes, hillary clinton has a sizeable lead, probably almost insurmountable and also has more votes. you see the pledged delegate lead there. just under 300. between 2 million to 3 million more votes, depending on how you count the caucuses. if you were taking a regular poll like in any situation, she is clearly leading senator sanders. >> right. by the way you have noted and others noted it is an unusual argument to switch over and defy the will of the popular vote when you are trying to make a point of democracy. it will be a difficult stretch. but tonight it is really important that people in those
six states know that their voice is important and that people should get out to vote tomorrow. >> i would also note in the state of california there are a lot of other people on the ballot tomorrow, not just bernie sanders and hillary clinton. there are state senators. united states senate. all sorts of public officials on the ballot. turn out in this state the top two vote getters. all right. joining me now is a former ohio state senator, fresh off of the stage in san francisco. nina, your reaction. >> well, you know, to talk about super delegates are going to be the ones in terms of who has the popular vote when the bottom line is this. many of the super delegates, the overwhelming majority of the super delegates wa s supporting
secretary sight unseen before governor o'malley got in the race and before senator sanders got in the race. their decision, if it is their decision, not just based on the popular vote, it is based on something else. >> there are about 400. >> yes. >> let's throw out the super delegates. bernie sanders is not running to win the nbc news political desk. he is running a campaign to win support. if by tomorrow the sanders campaign has fewer pledged delegates and votes how do you make the argument they should essentially overturn what is the will of the voters? >> i want to go back to what i said before. it is not about overturning the will of the people. the overwhelming majority of the
super delegates made a decision sight unseen. this is the point. it is the system that we have right now. even though i believe it needs changed. because it is the system we are working with. when senator sanders gets to the convention to make the compelling argument that he is the strongest candidate to go head-to-head against donald trump, every single poll continuously said that. if democrats really want to win, senator bernie sanders is their man. he is the public servant of our time. he is the person that can take it to mr. trump and win and not just him winning the presidency but i heard you talking about other folks that are running. he brings the type of excitement that is needed up ask down the ticket, a revolution is not just about one. it is about the state houses and the governors' mansions. he is the one. >> let me ask you this. imagine a different universe, one we are having this conversation on a night in which bernie sanders is the one that
won 55% of voters. the bulk of super delegates are about to give the nomination to hillary clinton, overturning the popular vote. wouldn't you and everybody else in the sanders camp going crazy that it is being stolen from bernie sanders? >> chris, i am not even going to the universe with you. you know why, again the super delegates, over 400 super delegates made a decision before the people expressed their will. totally before they did. we are going to go all the way to the convention. i know people do not want to hear that. i think it is deceitful for news outlets to be calling the race before every last vote has been cast. it is going to suppress the vote in california. i think that is the goal of some folks. if you want every vote counted you would tell the news outlets not to count the super delegates
before we get to the convention. period. chris, this is not right what is going on here. everybody has the right to vote. our sisters and brothers in d.c. don't vote until june 14th. >> a week from tomorrow will be the final day votes are cast in washington, d.c. >> yes. but we still going all the way to the convention, chris. no matter what folks say. senator going all the way to the convention. >> we will see how it plays out and what the campaign looks like between the 14th on the day the last vote is cast and that in philadelphia. joining me now, kelly, i got to imagine just as jennifer articulated, the clinton campaign is probably institutionally meeting the news with mixed reaction. >> absolutely. and you outlined some of the reasons.
when you have been competing this hard for this long, one of the things that secretary clinton talked about today in an event i was covering that, she wants to make sure that they finish big and drive voters to the polls so people have their say not only for the race for the nomination in the democratic party but critical down ballot races. here in california there is a senate race. you find other key races in other parts of the country with six big contests tomorrow. it might seem like we are at the end of the process, but if you are a voter in any of the states waiting to get your say, the clinton campaign wants to encourage people to turn out and to be a part of this. in part she wants to see that because clinton hopes to be able to win in california and in other states like new jersey but to drive up the margin which would strengthen her hand going into the convention if bernie sanders chooses to keep up his
contention that pledge delegates need to be counted and super delegates only vote once they are at the convention. a bit taken away from a big concert at l.a.'s big greek theatre. raising funds for the victory campaign which would be a joint venture of the hillary clinton campaign and the democratic cause. hillary clinton had added a bunch of events to her schedule to be present in all parts of the state. and then on the primary day itself there was a real turning of the page. she would have her big primary night speech in the home burrow of her campaign, brooklyn, new york where the campaign hopes to be able to set a course towards november. to talk about the expected historic part of her campaign becoming the first woman nominated for a major party and the one silver lining, her
campaign has set out a fundraising appeal including some of the reporting about the delegates pledged and super delegates. raising money on that news. >> kelly o'donnell, thank you. we have much more. before we go i want to say this, in america we elect a lot of different people in all rungs of government. from city council to county commissioners, prosecutors who have a tremendous amount of power and those elections are often decided in low turnout scenarios like a primary that people think has been decided one way or another. you have a tremendous amount of power and coverage in the elections. anyone watching it in the six states tomorrow, it is not just donald trump or bernie sanders or hillary clinton on the ballot. a lot of people will be making
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if we can't win here in california, win in south dakota, north dakota, montana, new mexico, new jersey, we are going to go into that convention with enormous momentum. >> bernie sanders just a few moments ago. shortly after nbc news declared hillary clinton to be the presumptive nominee. let me start with you. i think tomorrow, we got the news that president obama spoke with bernie sanders i believe on sunday. the president is eager to unify the party and hit the campaign trail and we can read between the lines what that means. how do you see this playing out tomorrow night to begin with in terms of what bernie sanders tells his supporters and in the week between then and the final election in d.c. a week from
today? >> well, despite the fact that the president spoke to sanders, it does not seem that sanders are willing is go gently into the good night. he will take it all the wa i to the convention even if it means a bitter fight and not unifying the party. i think we can look forward to a fight over the next few weeks or months. >> you don't think that is a game theory bargaining position to get the maximum amount of voter support through the last contest that he is going to do that? >> it certainly seems that way. maybe just a strategic position to bend the democratic party platform to his will. he is has been committed to sticking this thing out. he has claimed that anybody that calls him the spoiler is mistaken. this is how the democratic process plays. he moved the goalposts about
what it should become to become the nominee. he will try to sway super delegates to his side because he thinks he will be more competitive in the general election. he is not showing any signs of backing down. >> what is your sense? >> i think there are two important things to keep in mind. first senator sanders does fundamentally believe that every american has the right to vote. he wants to make sure that everyone does get a chance to vote in the election. and then it will be a separate issue if he gets out of the race or stays until the convention. she mentioned the platform. he does want that leverage at the convention to shift things on the platform. there are a couple of issues the sanders campaign they think will be easy for them to win on. $15 minimum wage. they think there will be fights over a few other things like the
college tuition plan he supports. they definitely want to take the leverage into the convention. >> to me the issue here is that sanders is a unique politician in many ways. you know he is a self described democratic socialist and independent until joining the party. there is not a lot of traditional means of leverage that can be used over him. it does seem to mean that the president is a big thumb on the scale. i doubt the president would say anything before the 14th if i had to guess. but if the president comes in saying i am endorsing hillary clinton, that will make it significantly more difficult for sanders to stay in. >> yes and no. i think we have to remember that it is only relatively recently that bernie sanders became a democrat. we shouldn't be surprised he is not putting party unity ahead of the interests of the share of the populous that he believes he
represents. if anything i can see his supporters standing up to say this just shows the establishment of whom the president is the premier figurehead is putting his thumb on the scale and trying to skew things away from their preferred candidate. you know i am not sure that as motivation and compelling as the president might be that it will carry all of that much weight with sanders or his supporters. >> you know, the approval rating for the president among sanders voters is quite high. i think there is a subtext that the sanders votes are rejection of the president. the exit polling is pretty high. the point kathryn makes is a strong one insofar as sanders for someone that is go to come up, it looks like short, of the needed pledge delegates he holds quite a few cards in terms of
how the campaign unrolls in the next five weeks and has a lot to do with what he decides to do. >> that is correct. he could decide to keep pushing through the convention. push for issues and the things that i mentioned in the platform or continue to go after hillary clinton and keep attacking her all the way to the convention as she is hit by donald trump. i think a lot of the cards rest in the clinton campaigns hands. that is why you have seen them backing off from hitting senator sanders, not really trying doing anything to upset for him or his supporters. >> that has been very clear for a number of weeks. thank you both. appreciate it. all right. much more including the congressman that wrote an open letter to donald trump calling him a racist and telling him where he can shove his border wall. i am not making that up. ♪ you're not gonna watch it! ♪
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america that has more people working harder right now let's get real here for a minute. we have got work to do. that is absolutely true. but there is nothing we can't do if we make up our minds to do it. >> that is hillary clinton in long beach tonight. joining me now is charlie pierce writer for esquire. what do you make of this historic if abstractly historic night. >> that is exactly the way to put it. let's all not pretend to be five years old and realizing that calling the election tonight was about being first and no other reason. at the same time, bernie sanders argument about super delegates is just strange. he is essentially saying he is going to stampede the convention. i am not sure but i think he
probably does not have a cross of gold speech in him. >> well and here is the issue to me also. if you believe what bernie sanders says about the nature of the democratic party, that there is this establishment. it is one of his central critiques. hillary clinton is far, far closer than is bernie sanders. i think that is unquestionably true. far more embedded in the party and stronger relationships with the people that wield power in the party. if that is true as senator sanders identified throughout, it is very difficult to see a universe in which those same people in an unprecedented move give the super delegates to him to override the majority of democratic voters. >> yeah. that is exactly right. god love nina turner. when i run for president, my first phone call will be to nina
turner to be one of those surrogates. i never heard the term sight unseen used with hillary clinton before. every one of those super delegates that committed to hillary clinton, nothing happened in the campaign to make any of them change their minds. even though there are arguments that sanders does better than clinton against donald trump, those polls are meaningless by the day as donald trump immolates himself on the national stage. >> i think you will see those polls which are fluid and dynamic. and it is true. polling averages have shown for about six weeks or so a pretty consistent better performance by sanders against trump than hillary clinton. my sense that will change to the extent you see voters coalesce
around hillary clinton if they believe she is the nominee. the vast majority of his voters do not feel that way. >> right. i think that enough of them will coalesce behind secretary clinton to obviate whatever difference there is between her competitive numbers and his. everything is go to settle down. i am a little bit unnerved at calling this thing the night before states like california and new jersey vote. those are big, important states. >> we should reiterate independent of the call made by the news operation for which i currently work and is independently from me and rightfully so. voting tomorrow matters as much
donald trump refuses to back off from his racist attack on the judge overseeing one of the lawsuits against trump university. who better to ask than california's own attorney general, a rising star of the democratic party. i had the opportunity talk to harris on the campaign trail ahead of the california primary
tomorrow and discussed everything from the presumptive nominee to the looming fight in the senate. >> the president of the united states has certain responsibilities including appointing a nominee to the united states supreme court. and this guy has shown he is unable to do that. if the nominee happens to be latino or muslim. that is outrageous. let's talk about the significance of the united states supreme court. had earl warren not let the unanimous court to decide brown v board of education, chris, i would not be standing with you right now. let's talk about another point about our government and our democracy and the beauty of the design. three co-legal branches of government, this guy clearly has no respect for the judicial branch of government. that is extremely troubling.
>> i think take away running for president, you had judges where you go home that day and i am sure you say that guy. that was wrong. you are frustrated. >> of course. of course. >> but people do not just go to microphones. >> people say i disagree with what the judge did. i think the judges' decision was outrageous and not founded in good legal analysis. that happens whether it is good or not is debatable but that happens. this guy is saying that this judge is unqualified because of his ethnicity. wow. outrageous. >> is it good for the democratic party of california that the primary has been contested all the way to the end? >> i would debate it. yes. it is good.
because there are different ways of thinking of it. i think of it as this. it is always good more people decide they want to register to vote and actually vote. i think that is healthy and good for our democracy. and i prefer that. the alternative being that we love voter turn out. that is not good for people running for office. they are not held accountable by the people they want to represent and not good for us as a democracy because it means that people believe their voice does not matter. that their vote does not matter. when people turn out, that is a great thing. >> coming up, my interview with a sitting u.s. congressman who in no uncertain terms told donald trump where he could put his border wall. you don't want to miss that.
mr. trump, you're a racist and you can take your border wall and shove it -- he used more colorful language. earlier i spoke with the congressman and the county supervisor. >> what prompted the letter? >> well, i would have liked to have spoken in a more diplomatic fashion in language that he understands. the fact is since i have been of voting age from president carter and bush to president obama, we have had presidents that celebrated diversity and not demonized it. it is about america. because every american whether they were the first, fifth or tenth generation comes from other countries. and in my particular case there are 55 million mexicans of hispanic decent. 35 million are of mexican decent
and hundreds of thousands of stories just like mine. my great great-grandfather came in 1857. his grandchildren fought in world war one and world war ii and members of our family have fought in every war since then. when donald trump racially ask attacks the judge, well educated, a united states prosecutor and a distinguished and honorable federal judge, it is just not right. i felt like it was something that had to be addressed. >> you were there for prop 187, an intense anti-immigration bill that wilson backed that in some ways definitively changed state politics forever. >> absolutely.
>> severed the connection between the rising latino voters. are you watching something like that? >> absolutely. the young people are at the age where the largest segment has come on line to register to vote. we will see 7 million voting in california. millennials signed up in record numbers, younger than 30. they are going to come out. they are paying careful attention to what trump's rhetoric is. about racism. instilling more discrimination and false stereotypes. i believe it is driving a wedge in the party saying no more. 70% of latinos now are voting democrat. we intend to stay in that party. >> you are from texas. there is a real difference between the way the texas
republican party has handled the issue and the way the national party is talking about it. there are all of these dreams of making texas a battle ground state. the fact of the matter is that latinos in texans vote in higher margins than in national ballots and in other places because of the nature of the republican party. do you see that changing in your home state of texas with trump on the ballot? >> well, let me say this. to the extent that the republican party has made gains among latinos in the state of texas. that is because there are some leaders in texas that reached out to hispanic voters. i think that with this kind of racist rhetoric that we are hearing from donald trump, that many of those latino voters that might have previously voted republican will vote for the democrat candidate in this case.
beyond that i have spoken to friends on the other side of the aisle. friends of mine and people that i do not know that are republican that believe the rhetoric is anti-american and no way they would vote for donald trump. >> this election in many ways is shaping up to be this referendum about the future of the american citizenry and the way that it is being waged from the first moment of coming down the escalator and deportation. what does that mean? should hillary clinton or bernie sanders be the president in january for the priority and the pressure on the democratic party to get immigration reform done immediately. >> well, those two candidates in particular, hillary clinton had a record supporting immigration reform on every proposal i remember. she is not going to fall book
that. she knows that work has to be done. >> support is different than prioritization. if the election goes the way i think it will be hard for democrats to do anything but lead with it. >> she already made a commitment in the first 100 days. >> that was at the nbc town hall in las vegas. thank you both. appreciate it. >> thank you, chris. >> up next rum trum's newest attack on hillary clinton.
not too long after nbc news declared hillary clinton the presumptive nominee donald trump ramped up his attacks. a former secret service agent for president clinton -- this coming from the republican presumptive nominee who recently questioned whether a federal judge with mexican heritage can be objective. i asked what is going on. >> all shall breaking out, my
friend. you know this is crazy. it is disappointing and frustrating. i know a lot of republicans that have gone out on a limb with the campaign so far and a lot of republicans waiting to see how it plays out. more and more saying i just can't get there. donald trump needs to help himself by letting others help him and he needs to recognize this is not like how you run the trump enterprises. this is a very different responsibility. the most important responsibility in the world and you are treating it like it is just another deal. i think that hurts a lot of folks who want to help him. >> that is a damning indictment of the facilities, a person trying to run the most complicated and powerful and high stakes enterprise in the history of human civilizations. but second of all, here is part
of what i find baffling about this. i don't think he is just speaking off of the cuff. he believes this. there is all of this talk about bringing him in. this is not something where the press started to ask questions what do you think about the judge. he raised the man's ethnicity. i don't think it is a slip of the tongue. he believes the man's ethnic heritage disqualifies him from casting judgment. he is not going to back away from that. >> if you go back and look at it the case as it unfolded, the judge has ruled in his favor a lot more than against him. the rule has actually helped move donald trump's case along in a way that his attorneys i am sure would consider to be beneficial, not to mention the fact that if you understand who this judge is, he is a noted
prosecutor who fought against the very thing that donald trump wants to build the wall for. he prosecuted the drug lords and went after him. he aligns himself with the fact that the u.s. needs to protect itself. as a prosecutor he fought to do that. somehow his heritage is working against donald trump or working against this idea is ludicrous. the fact that you would bring it up in a presidential campaign regarding a personal civil matter is outlandish. the republicans from newt gingrich to others are right to do so. >> that is a key point. the comments on immigration the day he announced were bigoted but about a topic of immigration policy. same with the muslim ban. this is not an issue in american political lifelike what are we
doing against the judge overseeing the lawsuit about me. >> and that is the problem. it has become a personal matter. it is a personal matter pushed in the public spehere in a way where trump supporters are saying what does this have to do with anything. the only advice is to stop it. back off of it. let the process unfold. he is doubling down as you reported. >> he is not going to take our advice. but the question is the look on the face of bob corker like he had just line he had looked at his own demise. staring his own face in the mirror. that grin, that is going to be five months for every single
elected official in cycle, not in cycle. >> it's not good. it's not good. it is going to be very damning. >> quickly, saying that he is going to evolve. understand that he has to evolve in the way that he talks about hispanic voters. what do you do if -- >> you evolve into figuring out what you are going to do after this job is done. i don't know what else there will be to think about. donald trump is go to suck the air out of that opportunity. it makes it much more challenging for the chairman to put on the convention and even more challenging to protect the candidates running downballot. >> i am predicting each night of the republican national convention will be -- you know monday, tuesday, wednesday. work all the way through.
michael steele, thank you very much. >> that is all in for this evening. >> well, this is an unexpectedly big night. thanks for being with us this evening. the associated press made assoc announcement that by their count of the pledged delegate said and by their count of who the super delegates say they will support, they announced that hillary clinton has achieved the number of delegate sas she needs to bee the democratic party's presumptive nominee. hillary clinton is going to be joining us in just a few minutes. as this news lands like bomb shell on the eve of what will be the final act of the democratic n nomination. this weekend, on saturday, the u.s. virginsl