tv Morning Joe MSNBC July 8, 2016 3:00am-6:01am PDT
>> no, it's a sniper from up here somewhere. >> it's a sniper? >> you hear the shots. get down, get down. >> it is 6:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. in dallas, texas, where last night there was one of the one of the deadliest shootings targeting police in recent memory. 11 officers shot, five of them killed. a tense standoff with one of the suspects in that deadly ambush on dallas police reportedly ended around 2:30 this morning local time. police tell our affiliate in dallas that the suspect has been "neutralized." the police chief says that suspect was barricaded inside a parking garage exchanging gunfire with officers from an elevated position. we don't know if he was shot by police or took his own life. here's a little bit of what officers were dealing with. >> the suspect that we are negotiating with that has exchanged gunfire with us over the last 45 minutes has told our negotiators that the end is
coming and he's going to hurt and kill more of us, meaning law enforcement. and that there are bombs all over the place in this garage and in downtown. so, we are being careful in our tactics. >> again, police tell our affiliate in dallas, texas, that the suspect has been neutralized. three other people are being questioned according to the police chief. it all started around 9:00 last night in downtown dallas when rifle fire rang out at what otherwise has been a peaceful demonstration against this week's police shootings in minnesota and louisiana. again, 11 officers were shot. of those five have died. four are from the dallas pd. the other a dallas transit officer identified as 43-year-old brent thompson. the first officer from that department ever to be killed in the line of duty. he had been on the force since 2009.
three other officers are expected to recover. they are misty mcbride, omar canon and jesus retana. the suspects working together with rifles and positioning themselves in strategic locations near the route of the protests. police are investigating if more people could have been involved. right now, officials are sweeping the down aten area for explosives. the faa shut down air traffic over dallas for a while this morning. a nearby campus was on lockdown, as well. so, these are some of the shocking sounds that rang out last night on the streets of dallas. one of america's busiest cities. >> don't shoot. don't shoot. don't shoot. >> no, no, go, go, go!
they're shooting right now. and there's an officer down. it's coming from the right over there. from around these buildings. i don't know where. main street and lamar. main street and lamar. there's an officer down. they're moving in on somebody. >> let's bring in msnbc kyle perry. we'll get to the table in just a second. so much what we learned overnight is from social media. what are you bringing in there? >> all this played out in realtime online. all you needed was a internet connection and you can see
horrific images of police lying in the street dying. some of the videos we're not showing, but we're seeing a calculated native and come around the corner street level and he basically executes a police officer from the back. it's tactical. taking cover behind cement blocks and he's pivoting his fire and exchanging fire with the police. when we hear right now the city of dallas is doing an extensive sweep for bombs in the city, that's why. this was clearly calculated. this was well planned. one of the really difficult things here is that the dallas police department has been very progressive in their use of social media. they were actually live tweeting this march. they were working with protest leaders to pass information out to people in dallas about the march. nobody was in any kind of tactical gear. everybody was wearing, as you can see, just their normal blue
uniforms. and they were, they were advertising this on social media. the police are now going back through those records trying to unpack what people knew when they knew it. >> kyle, thank you very much. we'll check back with you throughout the morning as more comes in. the images are incredible. as he mentioned, you know, through social media, you find out literally everything. probably more than some people can bear to see, depending on their age. >> and we really have seen that over the past two days. in fact, this morning it actually got involved. we saw it happen, obviously, in st. paul. something that has caused furry across this country and also you saw a new element really play a major role in a new story and that, of course, was streaming through facebook. happened again last night and as the police had cornered the suspect, actually, they had to request that everybody turn off
all streaming services because they didn't want to give their positions away to the suspect that was cornered at the time. so, this is, this is a new world. >> new dimension. >> let's bring in the former chief of the boston police department, dan linski the incident commander during the boston marathon bombing. and on that note, you had a situation in dallas, which was as it was happening being blasted out through not just the airwaves, but all across the internet universe, first of all, i think i love your insight in terms of the big picture here where there was so much anger percolating over now that you had cops being targeted in the worst fashion. >> yeah, i was stunned when i woke up this morning. my thoughts and prayers go to david brown and the men and women of dallas pd. those officers and those
families and the community of dals. those people were protesting peacefully. those officers were standing out there protecting their right to protest peacefully and they are attacked for doing what we asked them to do every day. we saw in orlando when the lgbt club was attacked, this was not just an attack on the officers, but rifle shots that will penetrate a bulletproof vest. they didn't care. they ran in to stand between themselves and the protesters to keep people safe. just a tragedy for our entire nation today. amazing job by dallas to get in there and take overwhelming circumstances and a mrand attpl attack. it's not over yet. they have to go through extensive crime scene investigation. they have to identify the individual. individuals. >> chief, chuck scarborough
here. this does change the way, does it not? every law enforcement agency has to look at peaceful protests like this. we've got, obviously, we've got major events coming up, not only in this country. in cleveland with the republican national convention, but also in philadelphia, the democratic convention. a lot of protests there. and, of course, job one is to keep those peaceful. but, now, it seems to me every law enforcement agency has to pea looking up. and worried that they're going to be copy cats shooting at them from the roofs of the cities. >> you're right, joe. definitely conversations and there are going to be actions taken by police across america to deal with future protests. what we don't want to do is go backwards. we have policing in america who is looking at the issues being raised about how we can do things better. that you've got very progressive chief like chief brown in dallas and others that have been working. we can't let this drive us further apart. this has to be something that
drives us further together. instead of having separate conversations about the issues affecting police and community relations at the table, the rhetoric on both sides need to stop. we need actions at the table together. if i was a police chief in the community, i would be calling on my community leaders who support me and all my community leaders who actively and speak, you know, quite frankly don't support me. i would get everyone in a room and talk about a path forward and come together as a community and work on these issues together. the last thing we want to do, these people win if law enforcement changes and community changes the way we've been trying to move forward. >> dan, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you being with us. let's bring in right now gene robinson. pull aer prize winner with "washington post." one shocking event after event
and i'm not ready to compare it to 1968. but you take this summer and summer's past and we certainly start seeing unrest that may rival what we saw in the 1960s. this is a nation on edge. >> right. i mean, i think there's a way to go, as you said, before you start making the 1968 comparison. but, we're getting there. i mean, this is, this is an extraordinary series of events. it's a time of, you know, what you can almost start to call and, look, what happened or what we believe is to happen or is happening in dallas is just shocking. and we just know too little about it right now to put it in any sort of box except for its implications, as you said, for the rest of the summer. and the rest of the year.
i mean, there are dpogoing to b large crowds gathering. there are going to be protests, one assumes and one hope people protest. how must police departments in cleveland and philadelphia and in places where we know there are going to be potentially large street gatherings how must they be reacting to this. maybe we will learn something about this person or these persons or their motivations that, that gives us some idea of what to do and how to react. >> this really, we have chris jansing with us here at the table. this really chachks the equation in terms of peaceful protests that we've seen over the past few years and we've also seen little movement as it pertains to how cops handle suspects. we've tried body cameras.
tried things that might make a difference, but, obviously, the problem is still prevalent. >> we've given them more armor. we've given them more equipment. >> that might not be the issue. the fact remains, this is the deadliest number of, the deadliest incident since 9/11 for law enforcement in the history of the dallas police department, 80 police officers who died in the line of duty. 43 to guns and now that number goes to 85 and you have to know this morning as people are waking up and many are just waking up to find out what happened here, that there are husbands and wives and mothers and fathers and children of those police officers not just in dallas, but all across the country in cleveland, philadelphia, new york, who are going to have very difficult conversations and that fear that is always somewhere probably just below the surface for many of them knowing that as a police officer, you put yourself in harm's way each and every day.
this is the possibility of what could happen. and you contrast that to the conversation that is going on about the deaths of so many young, black men. >> that fear exists among black men out in society. and what you have is a situation like st. paul and baton rouge where social media helped tell the story. i mean, you look. and this fury as "new york post" puts it on the front page. >> that video. who could watch the video of castile bleeding to death and his shirt becoming soaked in blood and literally his life going away and the words of his girlfriend and the child in the back seat. >> sam, you have that. this is now, it seems to me, a cycle that we've seen before. where there were police shootings, police shooting others some time ago. there were protests that went out and, then, of course, new
york cops that were executed while they were sitting in their cars and then that reversed the discussion. it seems to me that there's this back and forth that yesterday everybody was talking about police officers shooting, shootings in baton rouge and minneapolis. and now this in dallas. and this isn't the first time we've been here. >> yeah, the reaction and the action here. you know, i think you can both care about black lives matter. and you can care, obviously, about cops. and sometimes it's in these contexts it's tough to see police officers as anything more than agents of the state, but as chris noted, they have family and they have lives. a lot of people are not going to go home tonight because of what happened last night. i think the common denominator here is that we have a lot of guns in this country. we have a lot of powerful guns in this country. it's a part of the story.
something we should talk about in the context of the story but today it's best to reflect on what happened. only 42 officers died in shootings in 2015. that number went up over 10% last night. >> we showed you earlier, these are aftermath pictures but cops intermingling with the protesters and really trying to sort of engage in a way. >> dallas pd was progressive. very aggressive on community policing. it is going to have to rethink its own methods because of this. >> they were live tweeting while this was going on and as the president said yesterday and as he, again, when he spoke about law enforcement earlier this morning from the press conference in poland, law enforcement officers have every right to go home safely to their families every night, just like everybody else. and we have got to figure out how, how we will work together as a society and to just look at
law enforcement officers as agents of the state. sam said some people may do. obviously, that is stripped away in moments like these. >> one of these cases you could really see the need for training to change in that department. let's bring in nbc news correspondent jacob rascon live in dallas. we are hearing no explosives were found at the scene. it wasn't searched. >> they have been searching for hours and you still have people here gathered waiting for their cars hoping the sweep will be done. the police investigation is just really getting started. we've been out here for hours and talking to witnesses who have come by. some who were sheltering in place inside some of these parking structures for up to six hours. they describe the scenes that you've been talking about for your show and other shows and they describe how one of them said that the scariest part about all of it was the
separated, for example, from his wife. and then we talked to another family. a father and son. they said the same thing. the scariest part about all of it not knowing if there were gunmen outstanding and being separated from his son. and your story after story like that and from all of the witnesses we talked to they bring up, how the irony of the situation and how they were here to be involved in a protest about police involved shootings. and then, of course, the tragedy that happened and it causes them to ponder and think about what the best way forward is and one of the witnesses told me really bottom line is two wrongs, of course, don't make a right. as far as the officers are concerned, we've had a big presence that has just scaled back in the last several minutes or so probably because of the sweep and because of the news there that they didn't find any explosive devices. the officers have been very kind to everyone out here. i saw one officer and i'll end
with this just a few minutes ago. he came up to one of the protesters and offered him a cup of water and said, here, in case you're thirsty. right now it's calm. right now this is what we're seeing. >> jacob, thank you very much. we turn now to msnbc law enforcement analyst and atf special agent in charge jim cavina. i know it's a very dark day in the law enforcement community. this was -- would you characterize this as a very coordinated targeted attack directly on police. >> yes, mika, absolutely i would. very targeted, coordinated and still a lot of facts unclear. you know, the chief had talked about a woman who was arrested and the shooter cornered in the garage. and two other people and it's all just not real clear. it's not even real clear that one of the gunman might have got away. those are the facts that we're going to hear from the police
chief this morning. to sweep for explosive devices seems to have cleared the area. i was the assistant agent in charge just blocks from there and was on those streets and had scores of agents working. dallas pd in our task force worked with them exclusively and they're just a top agency. this is a heartbreaking event e. as joe and your panel just talked about. a seminole event in america law enforcement to gun down officers and five dead. >> thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. coming up, we'll be bringing in congressman pete sessions whose district includes parts of dallas and much more. >> we'll be right back. it is a heartbreaking morning. to lose these four officers. that proudly served our citizens. to say that our police officers
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we have congressman pete sessions of texas. pete, it's always great to talk to you, but, man, what a horrible, horrible occasion to be speaking to you this morning. first of all our thoughts and prayers with you and everybody in your district. and all across dallas and texas. but what can you tell us about what you're hearing this morning from your friends and law enforcement agencies across dallas? >> it's obvious that i think for every action there could be an opposite and equal reaction. what happened maybe somewhere else in the country found itself
in its place, even in peace and a peaceful opportunity in dallas. but i would say to you, joe, is that dallas, texas, is a kind and benevolent city. we have a superior law enforcement officer that was there for peace and to help people. and what happened is something that must not ever happen, again. and we do, as mayor rollings said we have tafind a way not only to speak about the good and the bad and speak about tolerance and making our places better. dallas texas is a place, a city that loves each other and cares about each other and this, we'll learn more about it. but this is not something that dallas can accept. we will change and find a way to meet our grieving families. the law enforcement community is very strong in dallas, texas. i will stand with them and i will say we will not tolerate this. but it is up to all of us to
speak to our children and others about making sure we avoid what could become next and next in this country. we've got to solve it. >> and, congressman, we were just commenting around the table before you came on how impressive the leaders of dallas have been during this dark, difficult time. you had -- we have a quote from roll call saying officers may have let their guard down. speak to that, if you will. >> well, let me just say this, the dallas police department were trying to be as part of a community effort to acknowledge the things that are happening across this country. they put themself in circumstances, perhaps, to be with people who are perhaps walking or being prepared for what may have happened. it was an ambush on them and i don't think they were prepared. i would have joined the
protesters, perhaps, myself. but we have to understand that it's also a time when we cannot put our guard down. we have to look at high places and low places. and the search for the bombs alone and the threat of that is an indication that we still have to have law enforcement that is as vigilant as they can be with the knowledge something like this could happen. >> peter, are you going to cleveland for the convention? >> yes, i am. >> are you concerned about security there? >> what i am concerned about, we would not go do our job and responsibility. as you know from the time i was chair of the national republican congressional committee, our job was to go talk to america about the kind of america we will have. healing our country and making it vibrant and strong, again. we'll go with great resolve to cleveland. donald trump will be there and be nominated and we must stand and be strong about making america great, again. if we are weak at home, we are
weak around the world and this is an example of a weakness when our president goes overseas and has a terrible tragedy like this is an idea why we've got to solve ourself. >> you're standing by donald trump. you just sort of made the pitch there. i have to ask you, how do you think a trump administration and trump himself and you working in support of him would handle what is clearly a growing fury against police and, in some cases, legitimately so from what we have seen on video. how would this be handled differently in a trump administration to quell the anger and to quell the violence? >> well, mika, i think first of all the best example of trying to make police departments work might be the best departments around the country and showing them how they work. i believe where you have cities that have vibrant and they care about their homeless people and
care about mentally ill people, which is what dallas struggles with, like everybody else. is a comprehension that we have to all come to grips with. but this is done, not through america having a terrible unemployment problem. it's done through having a vibrant, strong nation where people then help each other. i think donald trump will bring 10 million new jobs to america and we desperately need gdp growth and jobs. >> congressman pete sessions, thank you. >> thank you, pete. >> when i talk about legitimate. some of the things we've seen online over the years where people were videotaping what happened to people by police. >> legitimately concerned, obviously. so many people were talking about what happened, minneapolis. but the proper way to respond to that is what was happening in the streets last night. a peaceful protests where you had police officers, live tweeting, taking pictures with the protesters really sadly,
tragically, sam, a real model of how law enforcement should work along with protesters. >> the human tragedy is horrifying and terrible. but in a much narrower sense is what dallas was trying to do. integrate themselves within the community so they can build some kind of trust so situations that happened in baton rouge and san paul wouldn't have as big a ramification in dallas, if it should happen there. what this does, potentially, is rips apart the trust and all the work that the dallas pd was trying to do. hurts other police departments that might not want to do something like that any more because of what happened last night. >> cops are in a terrible story of diamond reynolds. boyfriend was shot in the car with her little girl in the back because i see her as a journalistic hero. she put up her phone and told
the story as it was happening and kept herself together and she knew that phone was her lifeline because that phone could show the truth. and she kept it on and kept it on and kept it on even though she was dragged out of the car and it was thrown to the ground and the phone was looking up to the sky but still captured the sounds of her being cuffed and the officer in the background screaming, somebody screaming something because they had discovered this guy had perished. this story shows from the inside out what really happens impassioned and real and base way. look, it's caused a lot of reaction but we need to see what's happening. and the cop, the cop involved here, i feel for him, too. he looks scared. there's an issue here that's nobody's, nobody can completely have the finger pointed at them. the training is clearly not there. >> that really is the key. and if you talk to commissioner bratton, if you talk to other police commissioners that do it
right, we've had some on this morning. the key, it really does come down to training. and you see so many things and so many of those videos. but one of the things you see are officers who seem to be young -- >> and overwhelmed. >> overmatched by the job that they have. overwhelmed by what's going in there. being afraid that they're going to be shot and it really does, and sam said it, so much of this comes down to police training. and, also, so much of this comes down to having the type of leadership that from what we've seen, dallas has the type of leadership that new york has. yes, things can go wrong. but, the communities work together. and that seem tazbe the key. we're going to continue to talk about that. we're going to continue talking about the peaceful demonstration that was shattered by violence. again, five police officers.
five police officers who were out trying to protect protesters shot dead. six others wounded after they were ambushed. we're going to be hearing from the president of the united states, who spoke moments ago from war saw. we also are going to be going to minneapolis and, also, going to baton rouge and talking to the incidents there, as well, when we return. (guy) oh man, the show's pretty much over. (friend) wish we could start it from the beginning.
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you know, mika, last block we were talking about police community officers who do it right. we talk about the communities that do it right. from everything we've seen, dallas is actually an example of a city that does it right and sam stein was just referring me to an article that was actually written a year ago talking about the reason why the murder rate in dallas is so low because of great practices that the police department have been active. >> this is an article by radially who was on top of this story for a while in "washington post." he notes the murder in dallas was the lowest it's been and he credits and the police chief himself credits that the community approach to policing, they're open and transparent about the use of excessive force
and it's paid off. they are very open, very honest about how they go about doing this. they work within actors within the community so they can build a layer of trust and it works. it's comprehensive. it's effective. >> why the white house put after ferguson the community policing initiative together. at the time eric holder and valerie jarrod, $260 million program. i also thought we saw overnight as i was anchoring they had the police conference with the police chief and how open he was and how forthcoming and real he seemed. he didn't seem like he was trying to parse his words. he was worried about how he is going to be perceived. he was just putting it out there. >> the sick thing about last night is it appears that openness and willingness to be in the community was used against these police frs os. they were there with the police protesters.
they weren't in heavy gear. they were more vulnerable because of this. >> gene robinson, we see the effect of this. when you have some cities, unfortunately, like ferguson, where you don't have that type of support. >> exactly. >> then things blow up and suddenly people come in police gear. you look at dallas. this morning officers going to protest or sitting there offering them water. even this morning after five of their colleagues have been shot dead. and you also saw it in new york. eric gardner. just a horrifying video. we said in realtime, he was murdered. yet, new york didn't blow up and al sharpton came on and said the reason why is because we talked to each other here. and we work through bad situations. it seems to me that really is the key, isn't it? this community policing. >> it is. that's why, you know, i mean, in a funny way i don't worry about some sort of awful reaction to this in dallas.
i think dallas is a strong city. dallas will work this out. other cities. new york city. there's a relationship between people and the police. washington, d.c., there's a relationship between police and the police where the police chief is a very popular figure and where there's community policing. so, but what i worry about is cities where policing is not so enlightened, where it hasn't been reformed and where something shocking and awful like this. i mean, i think we can call it an act of terrorism. an act of domestic terrorism can provoke a reaction. perhaps by authorities in communities that can, you know, that can go off and really, really bad directions. so, one hopes that doesn't happen. >> president obama spoke in warsaw, poland, at the nato
summit. we're joined by ron allen covering the president's trip. ron, what did he say this morning? >> well, this issue has, obviously, risen to the top of the president's agenda. agenda on the global fight against isis. brexit and vladimirputen and the eastern part of europe. the president offered his full support to the people of dallas and he said he didn't know all the facts, but clearly one conclusion that he had reached is there is no excuse for what happened. no excuse to attack a police officer or a police department in the matter that it happened. the president also made a reference for the need to folks and confront this issue of the easy accessibility of high-powered weapons. something he has gotten a lot of pushback for. this entire issue of protesters and police has been something that the president has been criticized for because many feel that he falls on the side of protesters to the exclusion of police or has over the years.
here's some of what the president had to say about the events in dallas. >> we still don't know all the facts. what we do know is that there has been a vicious, calculated and despicable attack on law enforcement. police in dallas were on duty duri doing their jobs keeping people safe during these protests. these law enforcement officers were targeted. i believe i speak for every single american when i say we are horrified over these events. and that we stand unite would the people and the police department in dallas. yesterday i spoke about our need to be concerned as all americans about racial disparities in our criminal justice system. i also said yesterday that our police have an extraordinarily difficult job.
and the vast majority of them do their job in outstanding fashion. i also indicated the degree to which we need to be supportive of those officers who do their job each and every day. protecting us and protecting our communities. today is a wrenching reminder of the sacrifices that they make for us. >> well, obviously, as we learned about what happens in dallas, this other issue. this issue is going to remain as the president put it, the racial disparities and the criminal justice system not just policing but incarceration rates and so on and so forth. and this demand that some people have for peaceful protesting and the recognition that they have a very, very difficult job. and the fact that police are asked to be social workers and they can't account for terrible education systems and the lack
of jobs and opportunities in communities. which is at the base, arguably, one of the fundamental issues that is causing all of this to happen in cities like dallas and else where. back to you guys. >> ron allen, thank you very, very much. i will say one thing what the president has been very good at doing and he's done it over the past year or so when talking about the situation. it doesn't matter what he says, he's going to be hammered by the other side for not going far enough. but gene robinson, one thing that the president has been so effective at doing and it is the reality that law enforcement officers make. many times they are forced to go in to some of the most dangerous places in america and act as social workers. trying to defuse conflicts that just aren't going to be defused. and often they do that day in
and day out. and day in and day out. and it has accumulative effect. the president in his words over the past year seems to recognize that very, very bitter reality. >> i think the president does recognize that. and, as you say, he's expressed it many times and people should know, i think most people do know that, of course, nobody wants and needs effective community policing more than the people in crime ridden neighborhood, right? you know, they want good policing and realize that the sort of danger that police officers put themselves in. a situation like in dallas, in this country, how do you prevent that? how do you keep someone from going up in a parking garage and taking shots at police officers or officers taking advantage of the opportunity but of many police officers gathered in one place.
if that's what this person wanted to do. i'm not sure how one prevents that given, given, frankly, the second amendment and given some of the tensions in our open society. so, it's going to be very difficult to figure out exactly what lessons one should draw from this as we figure out exactly what happened. >> all right, gene robinson, thank you so much. up next, two police shootings and two viral videos in a country grappling with race, justice and the use of force. it's a must-have conversation and it's next on "morning joe."
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you took him away and now you have to pay. i will not be able to sleep until i get justice. i need justice, i want peace. i want justice and even after justice, this will never go away. >> would this have happened if the driver and the passenger were white? i don't think it would have p. forced confronted, this is kind of a racism exists. >> that was the fiancee of philando castile. joining us now the host of "politics nation" and national action network sharpton.
and eddie. >> reverend sharpton, you couldn't go anywhere without people talking about the streaming video of what happened in minneapolis. i heard wherever i went people were talking about -- >> diamond reynolds and what she did. this morning, of course, the nation is going to wake up to the horrifying news out of dallas. and this just seems to keep happening. and it usually seems to happen in the summers where you have shootings all over the place. and it's hard to sort through it. what are you saying? >> the streaming yesterday of diamond and reverend -- talk with her mother and i'm dealing with my emotions, as well as a strategy. and then to wake up this morning and to see the police that are killed. >> which in a community where they seem to actually do it
right for the most part. >> in a community that i know well that has had any series of peaceful protests that now all of it it is distorted in the context that these are anti-police moves or even people that would in some way embrace the killing of police or even the harming of police, rather than the correcting of police actions. i mean, this is as bad as it gets. one, because we are losing lives. we've got to have the same kind of passionate and druamatic way of saying that we stand by the families of police as we do victims. >> exactly. >> we want to stop killing and we want to stop wrong. we are not anti-each other. i think that these killings today by police in many ways will be maneuvered on beith
sides that we can't tolerate. >> and, eddie, you have a contrast between what happened in minneapolis where you had an officer, as you said, that seemed untrained, overmatched by events, screaming, panicking and tragedy ensuing from that. and then what we're seeing this morning in dallas. where police officers calmly marching with protesters and this morning even going as we had a report taking water to protesters this morning. it does all come down to the quality of the policing, does it not? >> yeah, to a certain extent. >> you said something earlier in the show. that we're a nation on edge. and so you had these specific incidents. the specific cultures. the specific limitations. but there's this broader context in which it all exists in. that is we are a nation on edge.
you know, you have police officers worrying about their fathers and mothers coming home to their families. and you have african-american families worried that when they walk out the door, they might not see that that would be the last time they take their last breath for whatever reason. and then on top of that, you have an environment that has been heightened by the rhetoric of this political season. >> right. >> people are talking about building walls. folks are just spewing hate like in the name of political ambition. and all of this is happening in a context where folks are trying to make ends meet. and we've talked about this before on this show where folks are trying to imagine tomorrow. and, so, you have these individual contexts, right. where people are doing their jobs and people are just trying to make it to tomorrow. and it's a powder -- >> i have a question about that.
theoretically, we're having more conversations about this all the time. and yet the problem isn't necessarily going away. more deaths by police shooting in the first six months of this year than there have been last year. 2,114 shootings since ferguson. and last night which appears to be a reaction to this. if we are talking about it more openly on shows like this, why is it persisting -- >> because we're talking and not going to solutions. the only way you're going to deal with the issue of police misconduct is police needs to separate the bad cops and they need to be penalized. the only way you'll deal with it in the communities. we had two police killed in new york last year. we started a conversation like we're doing today with dallas. and we didn't continue that to where we would deal with the fact that police should not be the target. bad policing.
and the fact that we are afraid of bad police should be the target. until there's penalties and real solutions. >> the problems like i think we saw in chicago and other areas, the problems of reports of police potentially covering up these incidents. >> that's right. >> and being able to do so. but i think the reason why we're sort of in this to answer your question, sam, one answer would be that these videos show how pervasive these problems are. these videos are just the incidents caught on video. >> we were saying before these were videos. but now it's bringing it home. >> it is bringing it home. it is bringing us inside the car. it's bringing us face-to-face with the cop and the "suspect" sterling pinned on the ground being shot at close range. that's the one we know about. >> wae are concerned, obviously, everyone has to be concerned about the fact that these are just a few that are caught on video. >> that's right.
>> that's why we talked about body cams since ferguson. that's why we talked about it. there has to be more accountability. and we saw in a video out of baton rouge, louisiana, again, just a few days ago. a shooting there. and let's bring in right now from baton rouge, louisiana, reverend shelton charles dixon. he has asked reverend sharpton to come to his community to meet with the family of alton sterling who was shot by police earlier this week. obviously, this morning, reverend, we are mourning the deaths of the five law enforcement officers in dallas, but, also, still gravely concerned by what we've seen earlier this week in both minneapolis and baton rouge. how is the family doing? what can you tell us? >> good morning to all. thank you so much f having me to be a part of this show this morning. good morning, reverend sharpton. >> good morning. >> thank you so much for
responding to my request and not just my request, but also the request of the president of the fourth district baptist association dr. renee brown which is the largest baptist association here in baton rouge. the family of now the deceased alton sterling is doing real well. despite, you know, what we see by way of video clips on the news. last night was a prayer vigil at living faith christian center and what a wonderful turnout from the community. there were thousands gathered in that church. bishop raymond johnson hosted us. i want to say this about our city here in baton rouge. we are hurting. but our people are responding to this in a way unlike other cities have done in recent pasts. thank you, governor, of our state of louisiana and certainly want to thank our mayor, our
chief of police, our superintendent of state police and our sheriff for all coming together and helping to keep this tragedy, tragic situation from becoming worse. >> all right, reverend shelton charles dixon, thank you. it is just about 7:00 a.m. on the east coast, 6:00 a.m. in dallas, texas. which, if you're just joining us, was the site overnight of a deadly and brazen assault on law enforcement. amid what would have been a peaceful protest. 11 officers shot. five of them killed. injured officers are members of the dallas police department and dallas area rapid transit which is known as d.a.r.t. police are looking at multiple angles in the investigation of this ambush on police officers, but it is believed that at least one suspect is dead. a tense standoff with one of the suspects reportedly ended around 2:30 this morning local time. police tell our affiliate in dallas that the suspect has been
"neutralized." according to police, the suspect was barricaded inside a parking garage exchanging gunfire with officers from an elevated positions. after concerns about bombs being placed in the area, police completed primary and secondary sweeps for explosives and have not found any. they don't know if he was shot by police or took his own life. here's how the mayor of that city reacted early this morning. >> it is a heartbreaking morning. to lose these four officers. that proudly served our citizens. to say that our police officers put their life on the line every day is no hyperbole, ladies and gentlemen. it's a reality. we as a city, we as a country, must come together and lock arms and heal the wounds that we all
feel from time to time. words matter. leadership matters at this time. >> again, police tell our affiliate in dallas that the suspect has been neutralized. three other people are being questioned according to the police chief. and it all started around 9:00 last night in downtown dallas where rifle fire rang out near a demonstration against this week's fatal shoot police shootings of african-american men in minnesota and louisiana. >> again, 11 officers were shot. five of them had died. four are from the dallas pd. the other a dallas transit officer identified as 43-year-old brent thompson. the first officer from that
department ever to be killed in the line of duty. he had been on the force since 2009. three other d.a.r.t. officers shot are expected to recover. they are misty mcbride, omar canon and jesus retana. police are investigating if more people could have been involved. a civilian was apparently hit, as well. shetamia taylor was shot, according to her sister. here's what she told our dallas affiliate earlier this morning about her sister and how her sister protected her four children. >> she took herself and her four boys down to the rally. a very peaceful rally and right towards the end of the rally as they were walking away she was right at the beginning, the first crowd to walk away. as they turned to walk away, she heard the first shot. they didn't know what it was, so
she kept walking and after the first shot she said another shot went off and then it became a barrage of shots fired. they all began to run and right as she started to run she caught a bullet on her right calf. she jumped on one of her sons and the other three ran different directions. right now, currently, two of my nephews are locked in the hyatt tower because they can't get out because of the current situation. we found one. he was taken to somebody's apartment nearby and we found him and picked him up and she is currently going through surgery to remove to bullets, we hope. >> look at these headlines. fury on the front of "new york post." "the daily news" am i next, daddy? "boston globe" yesterday or actually reporting the news of yesterday about the president,
this morning, though, that lead story bumped off by this ebout 11 law enforcement officers gunned down at a peaceful rally. it is, our children, every day, are confronted with, again, this chaotic news. a country on edge. and, as sam said, if you look at the numbers, especially in the black community, things are not improving. >> yeah, i mean, you know, we have to grapple with the image of alton sterling's son at the press conference. >> oh, my gosh. >> just weeping. we often tell the story about absent black fathers. here is his son grieving over his daddy that he won't see him again. weeping, not crying, weeping. you think about the 4-year-old daughter of diamond reynolds how
her life has been affected. by witnessing what she witnessed at 4 years old yet she had the resources in that moment to comfort her mother. i'm here, mommy. i'm here. you know, in barbershops all across america, when i was home with my daddy on the coast of mississippi who's been warned in some ways by the history of that state. he said in response a long time ago, it might have been mike brown, if they don't do something, we're going to start killing them. somebody's going to start killing cops, if they don't do something. that conversation i'm giving some insight that white america might not have heard before. that conversation has been had and it is has been had before. if you aren't going to protect us. if you're going to subject us to this, there are going to be elements in our community that are going to respond.
so, you have, just as we see right-wing militias and northeast washington state, challenging cops, worried about the state saying the state is intruding on their lives. you have these folk in the middle of a protest. a peaceful protest. 800 to 1,000 people in dallas, right. and then all of a sudden shots ring out. >> this has happened. i grew up, as you know, in the aftermath of dr. king in his organization. dr. king's last march in memphis was nonviolent and a group called the invaders came in and started a riot in the end of his march. which is why he went back to memphis to prove he could do a nonviolent march, which is when he got killed. many of us come out of the movement understand that if we can't to solutions, people are going to take the next step. and we look like the enemy. we may be the ones that try to
really save this country and our communities at the same time, which is a difficult task because you're going to get on both sides. but if you love the people you serve, you're going to take that risk. >> eugene robinson, any history of martin luther king shows that among his many enemies were those in the black community who thought that he was a pushover. that he was a patsy. that him preaching nonviolence at a time that blacks were being killed and hung and hosed down in the streets of birmingham, alabama. that was a constant battle for martin luther king. >> well -- >> and, obviously, we fear now what, obviously, what eddie and reverend sharpton are saying now that violent, more violent
approaches may be taken in the future. find angry elements. >> you know, african-americans have never been monliffic. we were not in dr. king's day and certainly not now. yes, you have people who have different ideas and, sadly, you have, there are people who want to take the violent route. i think we should be careful in talking about what happened in dallas about drawing too manyclusions at this point since we don't yet know who the suspects are. we don't yet know whether this is this atrocity and this horrible shooting. these horrible killings were a direct result or reaction to the police shootings. whether this was an awful crime of opportunity in some way. given that here you had police officers gathered and somebody
for whatever other motive did it. so, yes, we can't shy away from assumptions, but we can't yet affirm up any assumptions simply because we don't know. there is, you know, there is a suspect in custody, apparently. we don't know anything about who that person is. nor do we know anything about the person who either was killed or killed him or herself. >> it's a great point. >> we do know a few things or at least reasonably expect a few things. that these people are tactical and calculating and likely targeting this route because they had to have known where they were going in order to camp out in these garages. we do know a few things. gene is right, by and large, we need to be patient in knowing what the motivations were of these people. >> i think the responsible thing to do, gene, is right. but i think when we raise the spectrum that eddie was raising that there are different views being expressed.
we're not necessarily assigning because we don't know who they are. there are different expressions that i don't think people appreciate. i'm going to baton rouge tomorrow after the harlem rally. i've got to be concerned does somebody use our gathering in baton rouge to do something else. and i didn't have to think about that predallas. that doesn't mean i'm concluding what happens in dallas. it means we have to factor it in, even though i know i'm going to deal because i'm coming at all. >> you know, law enforcement officers, mika, have been the victims of random shootings in the past. will you talk about the two that was gunned down in new york. and have been targeted in the past because of racial tensions. so, if this is the case in dallas and we do not know yet, it it would not be the first time, nor will it be the last time. >> we have two parallel national events in which blacks are focused on by police and killed.
some might say murdered. and then hours later police being killed. let's bring in cal perry. cal, so much of what we learned overnight is from social media, which is really a huge part of this story. a tool, almost a weapon in this fight to try and find some equality in our society. what are you learning? >> it just adds a layer to the conversation that you're having. this was broadcast in realtime online. so, in order to see a dallas police officer die in downtown dallas, all you had to do was have an internet connection. one piece of video that people are going over and over again and that is this one. there is a tactical nature to the way that this gunman is carrying out this attack. he's wearing a vest. he has a bulletproof vest on and taking cover behind all the appropriate places and all the cement blocks. the methodology here, the skill involved here is something that police are looking at immediately to try to find connections to, to try to find
out who these people were. and you can bet that this took planning. this took a lot of planning. they're going to be look prognosis the people that supported this attack. what i hope will be the indelible image from what was a horrible tragedy last night is the following video. this is police outside the hospital and i cannot believe i'm reporting something from parkland memorial hospital. the historical significance of this hospital probably cannot be understated. this is the video that is playing online over and over again this morning. >> all right, obviously parkland where jfk was taken after being shot and assassinated. >> you know, i keep going back to something you said. we're a nation on edge. and, you know, at the heart of this, joe, we talk about, i've said this on the show before.
we talk about the wealth gap. we talked about the achievement gap. but at the heart of this is something called the value gap. that there is a belief. it's not a feeling. it's actually, it's actually known that white people are valued more in this country than others. that when the government of minnesota said if that was a white couple in st. paul, that that driver, that philando would be alive, that is the value gap. part of what happens with the value gap, mika, is it lends a kind of precariousness to black life. >> i'll go out to dallas in just a second. i'll throw this question out there. what would have happened if diamond reynolds hadn't broadcast live on facebook? what if she would have had no phone. >> if she would not have done that, no one would have believed her. i think that's the point. the governor said yesterday if that person would have been white, it wouldn't have happened. it carried weight. he's making an observation.
we wake up in that reality every day and to carry that burden on your shoulder every day from work to play to school, whatever. it's something that i don't think people understand. >> let's go back to dallas and bring in jacob rascon live in dallas. set the scene for us now, jacob. >> what we're seeing is a lot of conflicted folks. people who showed up for the protest who tell us they were angry at police officers in general, including at dallas police officers. that they had experiences with dallas police that made them unhappy and made them feel disrespected. and then for this to happen and now, of course, they feel they say their hearts go out to the officers. we saw a group of them here praying behind us just moments ago. and they're struggling with these emotions inside because they were very, very angry and upset with the two shootings this week of two african-american men and then they came here to let out some of that energy, they said. then to have this happen.
when i asked them, what is the path forward? usually the response is that they believe, they say, that there needs to be more open dialogue that we need to feel safe talking about race or feel more comfortable or be more willing to talk about race. and to do so peacefully, of course. and they all say things like two wrongs don't make a right, but it's an incredibly interesting to watch, to hear these protesters describe the mix of emotions they're going through on the ground like now. then i'll mention just this, as well. you can see the pain on the officers' faces out here. they've been up all night, of course. they lost co-workers and friends. there must be some connection whether it's they knew him as an immediate supervisor or a friend or through another officer knew him. but you have to believe that of the 11 officers, all of those who are out here tonight have some close connection beyond just that they were part of the
same department. how incredibly difficult for them, as well. >> jakenb, thank you. i was just going to open this up to the table really quickly. i mean, i remember, you know, the governor talking about if this were a white passenger, would it have happened? no. it's a question that i asked in the first days after katrina. if this were, actually, i said, if this were happening in the suburbs of dallas instead of in the ninth ward, do we really think it would have taken this long for the federal government to come and help those who were in such dire need of help? the question is, after katrina we supposedly had this great soul searching on race and, yet, here we are 11 years later. as you said, the divisions are greater than ever. you talk about the divisions in between black america and white
america. there are now growing divisions in white america. that have fueled donald trump's rise of white americans who feel like they have been left. because they have. economically left behind. their life expectancies are shorter. rage is growing. >> the next generation is not feeling better. >> the reason why that is the case is because of these immigrants who are lazy -- >> well, as the rage is growing, there are some that blame that. there are some that blame big government. there are some that blame whomever else. but it seems to me that we are getting, it's becoming more complicated by the year. >> but it seems you touched on something, joe. that's where leadership now has to say that we got to bring this -- >> where is the leadership?
i've got to say, i have been complimentary of president obama for understanding what police officers go through, but i must say over the past two days for the most part, he looks like a man who doesn't quite know exactly what to say. >> but the leadership. the leadership will come towards those that will bring to the solution. you stood up and talked about katrina. you stood up and talked about trayvon martin in a very passionate way. we disagreed on furnlgson. we had that conversation. you're a white alabaman republican talking to a new york -- >> northwest florida. >> i'm talking about the contrast with us that quarrelled in the '90s that could talk because we're trying to solve a problem. >> exactly. >> and i think that if we don't deal with the fact. here are the facts. media income level black to bhit
white. unemployment level. if we don't talk about how we solve it, we'll continue having these conversations and people will become desperate because they don't get -- >> i've got to say what's most shocking. one of the more shocking moments for me because it seemed to me after talking about katrina, most people got it. i've got to say after trayvon, if there was another conservative talking about trayvon. i am not saying this to say i was right and everybody else was wrong. but i just didn't see a single republican leader stand up, outraged that a young man was shot for being black in the neighborhood. and they embraced george zimmerman. and i don't usually circle back around and poke and say i told you so. i really don't.
this election season i have, i apologize for that. i won't ever again. but in that case, there were several times how is your hero george zimmerman now? and there has been a reflexive opposition to people like trayvon martin. it must be his fault. >> even with katrina there was this undertone. state troopers that came to baton rouge and worried and expressed explicit concern about how baton rouge police officers were treated. right. black folk who were coming from new orleans into baton rouge. saying that they were arresting them. that all this -- there was this under tow. even the description of the four people washed up by the storm. even to yesterday, former illinois congressman joe walsh tweeted, this is now war. watch out, obama. watch out black lives' matter. real america is coming after
you. >> there is absolutism. when these things happen and people camp to each side and they want to have an argument about what the solutions are when they are often found in shades of gray. you could be pro-cop and very concerned about black lives matter. you can care for both these sides. >> you have black cops. let's not act -- >> part of the dallas contention. >> well, you can actually, yeah, you can. we've done it here time and again. talked about how the president overwhelming majority of police officers are great cops. but there is a subset that -- >> part of what i was trying to get at, though, is even with decency on full display from different from myself. even on full display, you have this kind of rhetoric and these sorts of assumptions about these black folk. alton sterling is a criminal,
what is his criminal background. let's talk about black on black crime before we talk about this. a sense that folks are not valuing the lives that have just been taken. >> responsibility by leaders of this country to call that hate out. retired executive assistant director of the fbi sean hennry. i know you've been watching this all night. what is your gut? i mean, i can't we can't actually confirm there is a relation sheer between what's happening nationally. >> but still a bleak, bleak night for law enforcement officers and their families that fear that their mother or their father or their sons and their daughters that go out to protect the rest of us won't come home at night. >> yeah, i can tell you that hearts are heavy in law enforcement throughout the united states. this morning people waking up and seeing and hearing about this. but in lisening to the conversation here this morning with everybody there in the studio, i think that there is a
grave concern by law enforcement around the country about them being under attack and how are they perceived. you said it, joe. there are over 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers in this country who get up every morning and go out to serve the community. they put their lives on the line, as we just saw here in dallas. and they want to serve the community. they want to be there to be that line between good and evil in our society to protect the citizenry. and they do feel, i think, in many of the folks that i have spoken with they're under attack. black, white, what have you. there is just lack of respect because of small pockets or one offs where people have crossed the line, perhaps. and they feel that their lives are in jeopardy. that they're specifically being targeted. i think that causes a huge problem for them as they try to patrol our communities and to keep them safe. >> so, sean, what is -- we,
obviously, have deepening suspicions on both sides. last night and the events of this week will only make that worse. from a law enforcement officer's point of view, what is the solution as we move forward? >> well, i think you've already said it and everybody on the panel has touched on this issue. leadership. and it's about communication. reverend sharpton talked about this communication between the communities and people having that open dialogue and being able to discuss contentious issues in an educated way in a reasonable way. looking for real solutions as opposed to rhetoric. i think that the tone that we see in this country right now. there's a lot of rhetoric. there are people who are insighting hate and people who are encouraging violence. that can't happen. i think that we have to respect the law. i think we have to respect common decency and understand that people need to lead their
lives and a need for people to have that communication openly. >> sean henry, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. i think what we need are guard rails and i said this several times this morning, reverend sharpton. after eric gardner was killed and the day after, they just murdered him. if that had happened in another community, there would have been violent protests. there would have been shootings like we saw last night here because there is an open dialogue between leaders like yourself and the police commissioner wasn't easy. in fact, it was heartbreaking. >> we disagree. >> you and come commissioner bratton and other leaders came together to make sure that the protests, though vocal, were peaceful. >> we want to see justice. the problem is, and i agree with what he just said about people
or maybe law enforcement feeling under attacked. imagine how people in our community feel when we've seen over and over and over again now on video and neen with was prosecuted successfully for it. no policeman in all of the data has gotten one day in jail. not one. so, if you think police feel under attack, imagine how after watching gardner and ferguson and walter scott and you go all the way to sterling and the case in st. paul, imagine the attack we feel. >> and chicago. >> and chicago. you talked about, you taukd about how we were on different sides in ferguson. on some issues. on hands up, don't shoot. but there were, there were, obviously, we both agree, that there was a system completely out of control. >> absolutely. >> i think the lesson from ferguson and eric holder said it in his report is that you have to have independent.
you have to have independent investigations. i don't fault d.a.s. they work with police officers every day to keep their community safe. there is no way, though, that you can have these two investigating each other. >> and we talked about that when we got with governor cuomo in new york. that's solutions. we have to deal with the solutions. >> when you have cops taking the videotapes from stores and parking garages, what is there to cover? joining us live this morning from dallas. ken paxton. thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you, mr. attorney general. we, obviously, our thoughts are with you all in dallas. we have been commenting all morning about what you do right. what dallas has done right in community policing. please, tell us, give us your
reaction to the tragedy of last night and what you know. what you can tell us. >> well, it's a sad day for us here in dallas and, obviously, all of texans are sad. i want to communicate to the families that we're praying for them and we will not forget this and we will remember the fallen heros and support them in this process. but you make a good point. i think the dallas police department has been excellent in dealing with this yis. they were out there protecting these people who were protesting, potentially against them. and yet they were out and risking their lives, as they always do. and i appreciate law enforcement in north dallas and in dallas and i appreciate law enforcement across texes for the good work that they're doing in texas. >> what can you tell us about the officers? what can you tell us about the dallas -- >> deceased. >> dallas police department that you would want america to know this morning. >> well, i can tell you this. the dallas police department is in charge of this investigation.
they're doing a great job. we are helping where we can. they're continuing to interview suspects and they're continuing to investigate the crime scene. they're continuing to search downtown dallas for bombs and for anybody that has worked in downtown dallas like i have. i worked across the street for years, it's a pretty surreal experience being out here with a crime scene like i've never really seen with the hundreds of policemen and it's just really amazing. >> all right, ken paxton, thank you very much. and we're back in just a moment. from over 30 billion connected devices. just 30 billion? a bold group of researchers and computer scientists in silicon valley, had a breakthrough they called... the machine. it changed computing forever. and it's been part of every new technology for the last 250 years. everything? everything! this year, hewlett packard enterprise will preview the machine and accelerate the future. see star trek beyond.
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well, we're following the breaking news out of dallas. five officers slain and there are more wounded. in this incredible overnight coordinated attack on police during their peaceful protest. chuck todd joins the table, as well as chris jansing. >> chuck, obviously, this will be part of the conversation on the campaign trail today. and the president grappling with this. trying to figure out exactly what to say. >> tough being overseas. and you could tell that he's struggling with it. i mean, twice yesterday he made time to make remarks, you know, in the middle of the night and that's tough. because you're just -- >> doesn't translate, as well. >> it sure is. i feel like we need a primetime speech from him. you wake up this morning and
you're like -- i don't know if it is going to help that much, but it wouldn't hurt. >> right, especially when you have a campaign that has been as ugly as it's been. >> there sort of needs to pea this, somebody has to put the embers out. somebody put water on this. >> but you also get a sense just with the e-mails i'm getting and the texts that i'm getting from people as people are waking up today. you're right, somebody needs to put some perspective on it and somebody needs to give some guidance. that's what a commander in chief is for. sadly, at these moments of great tragedy to try to make some sense of it. he came out yesterday and said we're better than this. he came out today and talked about how vicious and calculated this was. but i think you're right -- >> it's not like words are going to magically wash any of this away. but we need to have a, we need something and that's what a president has to do.
>> we've seen his ability to do that in the past. >> especially in the middle of a campaign like this. >> and i don't know if either nominee is up for it right now. >> donald trump just tweeted first reaction on the subject and targeted shootings at police officers in dallas, "prayers and condolences to all the families who were so thoroughly devastated by the horrors we are watching take place in our country." >> and that is, chuck, obviouslienobviously , on both sides yesterday. so many people i talked to and we're talking about what happened out of minneapolis and what happened in that facebook live stream. >> no, that was, that was the devastating moment of the hour. and then we wake up to this. it's -- this is the part that is making it. it's hard to comprehend all this. i think a lot of people are shocked. >> it is a nation on edge and, again, we had talked to gene
earlier about other times in the '60s when the country seemed to be hit by one tragedy after another another tragedy. this is not what we're going through right now and what we've been going through for the past couple years. our spiritual leaders being assassinated, it is men and women on the streets -- >> every day americans who are being gunned down. some by law enforcement officers and you have law enforcement officers being gunned down, as well. >> they are scared. i mean, the incredible value of that facebook live moment by moment coverage of the girlfriend of the man who cause ki
killed, mr. castile. i can honestly say the same thing would not have happened if she did not videotape the whole thing. >> no one would have believed her. >> you look at the video stream that she showed. you look at what is shown in sterling and then now you see the footage of people of at least one of the gunmen hiding and calculating shooting at police. this is what has brought the spread of what you're talking about, joe, of a nation on edge. because we're watching this in real time. it's not like this has not happened before. but we're looking at people getting ready to do certain things. and it's live and, in my opinion, if we don't have real leadership emerge, we're not only on edge, we're going to go over the ledge. and i think we've got to talk this country back from the ledge with equal protection under the law and equal value of lives. because we're at that point where we can go over where everybody just takes sides and
do extreme things and exploit the moment of pain. >> we just showed video a few seconds ago of one of the gunman. who looked as if he had been trained. looked like he knew what he was doing. this, obviously, has been planned out. and it's something that police will be looking at more closely as they investigate the causes of this crime and these killings. and the people that perpetrated it in their search for a motive. >> the conversation is so, has so many different facets to it because, you know, even in the st. paul story. i don't look at him as that guy. terrified. a guy who did not know what he was doing. >> and we see that. >> but most officers never fire
their weapon in the line of duty. >> unbelievable. >> but that's why, this is what i'm saying. he was scared. >> he was scared. >> but castile is dead and we have to deal with all of that. this guy may be afraid for any number of reasons. >> absolutely. >> but this young man lost his life in front of a child and his girlfriend. at a traffic stop. >> mika's point -- >> no, i understand her point. >> and yesterday this comes down to training. >> as much a part of the story. >> this comes down to having police officers that can de-escalate situations. >> his life. i mean, he will never. >> mika is saying it wouldn't happen. >> how do you train prejudice and hate out of someone's heart. that's a tough thing. the hardest part of this. you have to make sure you're recruiting people that are, you know, it's tough. i'm just saying -- >> black america has trained
itself to deal with their own reality. when people have commented on philando catile's girlfriend and how calm she sounded until the end. when she said i'm not going to move my hands. i read that as the reality of black america you know if you've been stopped by a police officer and your boyfriend is bleeding to death next to you, she's not going to make any move or sound in any way. that's how i read it. that would get her in trouble. >> the conversation is not to young blacks from their parents about the birds and the bees. it's about how you act if you're pulled over by law enforcement. do you understand the birden and the pain we have to grow up with that. coming up next, we'll hear from witnesses from last night's police ambush in dallas and continue to cover all sides of not only the dallas story, but
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>> we have extraordinary appreciation and respect for the vast majority of police officers who put their lives on the line to protect us every single day. they have a dangerous job. it is a tough job. and as i've said before, they have a right to go home to their families, just like anybody else on the job. >> president obama last night. we continue to follow breaking news out of dallas this morning. five officers were killed. we're now told seven other officers were wounded after snipers opened fire in dallas. the dallas police chief said it appears the shooters, "planned to injure and kill as many officers as they could." two civilians were injured, as well. police tell our affiliate in dallas that one suspect has been neutralized. three other people are being questioned, according to the
police chief. authorities say there may be other suspects at large. here's what witnesses told nbc's jacob rascon on our air earlier this morning. >> this is the walker family. a father and son who were there at the time. for you, what was the most terrifying part about all of it? >> well, the most terrifying part was us being separated and not knowing where the bullets was coming from and seeing an officer just drop right in front of you. they were there to support us. they were helping us. they didn't have riot gear on. they were there, a peaceful march and a guy just pulled up and just start mowing down officers. >> the irony of all of this, of course, is that it was a protest about officer involved shootings. you, yourself, said that you showed up to the protest because you had some negative energy you described. you had seen the recent shootings and you had come to let some of that out. >> as a chaplain i'm talk to
love everybody. today i came down here as a blackman tired of seeing other black men killed. i have a son going off to college and i said i have to do something. we came down here to protest and, you know, we got separated. and it was just terrifying. >> we're going to go back live to dallas just ahead. again, five officers killed and now the number of officers wounded up to seven. after snipers open fire on police in dallas. we'll be right back. [woodworker] i live in the fine details.
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there from around these buildings. i don't know where, main street and lamar. this is main street and lamar. there's an officer down. they are moving in on somebody. >> those sounds coming from an american city. >> yeah. >> in the middle of the night. it's really straggering. those are the sounds we have grown to expect from fallujah or other war zones across the world but not here. >> and it started as a peaceful pro test. one of those killed in the protest was dallas transit officer brent thompson.
>> the entire department is devastated as well as our entire agency. it's a horrendous loss for all of us. as you said, it's the first time that it's happened. we have been in constant contact with his family as well as all of our officers as well as dallas police department. so it's something, you know, we are going to get through it and we are going to take care of those injured officers as well as officer thompson's family. we have gotten a lot of well wishes throughout the country from other police departments as well as citizens from all across the united states sending sympathies and we are passing that along. we are grateful to be receiving all of those. >> reverend sharpton, we have been talking about this for some
time. you obviously can be concerned about both sides. it is a zero sum gang. you either support justice for all black americans or you support law enforcement officers. on social media it seems like a line is right down the middle. it reminds me of the muslim conversation where bill said hey, we have measure limb police officers on our police force. as you said earlier today, there are a lot of black cops not only in new york city but also across america. how do we move forward and make sure it isn't a zero sum game. i think most persons love and respect law enforcement officers and believe most of them do a great job but are still horrified by images they see out
of baton rouge, ferguson, charleston and minneapolis. >> i think the way we can move forward is we have to say what is the goal? at the end of the day the goal must be equal protection under the law and equal value of lives. when we protest bad policing we want those police to be dealt with and prosecuted and justly come to an end. we don't want to see our police nullified who we depend onto secure and keep us safe. you have to understand. i think the police are saying we want to do our job and go home, many of them, the overwhelming majority of them. our desire is to go home and our desire is for you to go home and for us to go home too without us being accosted. i think we have to have
leadership raise above this and say wait a minute, we need to solve this. >> all right. we'll have continued full coverage on the ambush on police in dallas after a quick break. to do one thing & another. only at&t has the network, people, and partners to help companies be... local & global. open & secure. because no one knows & like at&t.
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getting shot. it had to be five or six shots. they were all getting shot down. man, all of the cops. >> how many? >> i saw about three. i saw three. we was running. i didn't see anybody else get shot, it was just the cops. >> it is 8:00 a.m. on the east coast and 7:00 a.m. in dallas, texas where we are waiting on an update. our affiliate, kxas reports five killed in an ambush torgtiarget those in uniform. they were participating in a peaceful march. people scrambled for cover in the canyons of the city's
business district. witnesses realized shooters were aiming for police. four were members of the dallas police department. they are unidentified at this hour but their bodies were saluted by their colleagues outside parkland hospital. the fifth officer was a 43-year-old dallas transit officer, brent thompson who joined the department in 2009 and is the first to be killed in the line of duty. the transit authority chief says thompson was recently married in the past two weeks. police are look at multiple angles in the investigation of police officers but at least one suspect is dead. a long stand off with one of the suspects reportedly ended around 2:30 a.m. local time. according to police the suspect was barricaded inside a parking garage exchanging gunfire from
an elevated position. after concerns about bombs being placed they have swept the air gra for explosives and have not found any. we don't know if the suspect was shot by police or if he took his own life. this is how mayor rawlings described it. >> we don't have any information at this time. we are glad that we took down one of the suspects and we are hopeful that we have got everybody but we don't know that for sure. they wanted to kill police officers, and sadly they did. we have got to get to the bottom of it but more importantly we have to lift up the families right now and lift up every officer in the united states of america. >> they believe the attack was
coordinated, the suspects positioning themselves in strategic locations near the roof of the protests. police investigating if even more people could have been involved. a press conference will be coming up. goel to that live. let's go to chris from kxas in dallas. tell us what's happening as this day begins. >> reporter: well, right now about a 20-block area, five by 20 block area, that is how large this crime scene is. i'm at the corner next to a dallas area rapid transit bus stop and transit center here. buses would normally be coming and going. troopers have come out to assist as dallas police certainly have been here throughout the night. when i got here around 2:00 this
morning there were around 20 officers around this particular location. officers all over downtown dallas and as soon as those shots rang out those officers rushed to this area to assist other officers as well as all of the protesters that were protesting peacefully in one part of downtown here to the west end of downtown. again, as you mentioned, two of those civilians were wounded. we don't know the extent of their injuries and then the injuries, five in total dead, four dallas police and one dart officer. the reason dart was here is because the protest was coming towards the rail line, towards the bus line. it is part of their jurisdiction. they work with dallas police regularly. we saw teams of dogs walking throughout downtown throughout the last couple of hours. federal agencies assisting here. those sweeps have shown up to be negative. as for the suspects, one dead
inside the parking garage of the el centro community college. they say as of right now they are not talking the motive something we all want to understand. >> chris vanhorn, thank you very much. much to be concerned about when you look at the shooters obviously beyond the obvious tragedy for these police officers and their families. you look at what a coordinated attack it was. it was the timing. they waited until after the rally when people disbursed so the only people killed would be law enforcement officers. you look at the location of the gunmen, that stestrategically p trap them. you have somebody trained going from one barrier to another to
protect themselves. reports of videos of them coming up behind police officers and shooting them. here is a video of 134b that looks as if they have had some training. it certainly was not a random crime. >> far from it. it is obviously coordinated. obviously planned. these people came equipped for the -- i won't call it urban warfare because it is murder basically. police officers were in fear as snipers and this sort of -- they were deployed in this manner. i keep thinking we need to be cautious so we learn more about motivation and learn who these people were, who these people are, if they are suspects in du
custody who were really involved with this and what the motivation was. these are not black lives matter protesters or affiliated with a group certainly i would bet everything on because the group has made it clear because it has no part in such violence. so who were they? we don't know. >> we have the mayor of dallas, mike rawlings. our thoughts and prayers with you and your community on this tragic day. what can you tell us that we haven't heard yet about the suspects, who is in custody and any motives as of yet? >> well, first of all we kind of feel that support all over the country this morning, so thank you, joe.
we don't know much at this point about individuals, the investigation is ongoing hopefully in the next half hour or hour we'll have more information. we fingerprinted the pr perpetrator. the others are being pretty tight-lipped. it raises suspicions there as well. nothing at this point. early in the investigation but we'll get to the bottom of it. >> mr. mayor, are the police officers and city officials some what confident that they have apprehended all of the suspects or do they believe others involved in these shootings may still be on the loose? >> well, i think we are optimistic. i don't think the word confident works with us yet until we
scrape every piece and understand who else is out there. there might be other folks behind these folks so that's why we want to be very cautious about that sense of confidence. i'll tell you, we did get these individuals. i'm proud of our police force moving as fast as they did and cornering this one guy and being able to take him out. in some ways it's weird because we don't -- he is not there to help us crack the nut on the other side but the good news is he is gone off the face of the earth. >> dallas pd is known in the days, weeks, months ahead, how do you maintain that. do you think you have to change the posture that the police department has when it comes to its own community? >> you know, i think our strategy has been the right one.
we have had the fewest police related shootings than any major city in the united states. our crime has come down for the last almost dozen years. we did deescalation training before anybody did it. we did community policing. we have had the community come out for our chief who is a leader. so i feel that our community is moving that direction, but there are political issues. we are not trying to resolve anybody but i think everybody knows that our police are the support of our public safety. if we don't support them we'll have issues. it needs to be put in this dialogue from a national standpoint. >> can you tell us the suspect that has been shot and kimmlleds a part of the dallas community?
>> any links to -- >> yeah, we are hopeful that these folks are not but there's nothing -- no one promised me and determined definitely that that's the case. we have had protests before in the city of dallas and they have gone off peacefully. this was a peaceful protest until 8:58 central time and those snipers started firing on our police officers. i was with the families last night and it was a sobering moment. >> let me ask you mr. mayor, in 2016 the question has to be asked, we haven't talked about it in over two hours on this show but i feel we need to ask you, do you have any reason -- let me ask you this, can you rule out terrorism as a possible motive? >> i cannot.
>> you cannot. >> is there a reason -- >> we are not ruling anything out. >> does that include possible involvement by outside terror groups like isis? >> as i said, we are not ruling anything out until we come to the answer. we have relied and partnered with federal agencies, state agencies to get to all of those issues, but it would be unwise at this point to definitely rule some things out. >> and final question, what can, what would you ask that the rest of this country do for dallas right now? what do you guys need? >> if you care about dallas, if you care about your cities, watch your words. use your words carefully. if it's from the pulpit, from
the political spectrum we need to use good words and be steely-eyed about the bad guys and go get them. let's focus the energy on those that want to do us harm. >> thank you. a great message to leave us with. thank you so much. our thoughts and prayers and support with you and the people of dallas. >> the city of dallas. >> yes. thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. so i think gene brought this up earlier, you don't want to rule anything out. you start looking at the la gistgis logistics. >> it was very planned and they
were in elevated positions. >> and for what reason i think we need to figure out. let's be real clear and even the mayor said this was a peaceful protest. they have had protests there before. i have been involved in protests there in dallas. so these are not people that agree with at least the tactics or the cause that was being done last night. they do a disservice even to the cause of those of us that are raising issues. >> right. right. right. >> now the question we have to ask this morning is whether they were even quote part of that cause. >> exactly. >> whether they were even concerned. that's why i asked are they from inside the community, outside the community? >> he said absolutely not. he said it very firmly. >> let's bring in retired atf
special agent jim has been covering this all morning. i think it is not to focus on motivation but there are clear kind of factors that may have -- you can't help but to do the math and think perhaps what has happened in st. paul, baton rouge might have something to do about what happened in dallas but it spla nothing to do with it if this was terrorism. talk about this attack and what stands out to you. >> you're kpangtly right. what's in the subconscious mind of all of us is where the event was targeted. it was targeted at this rally. we go back to it must be the motivation. what the mayor is saying is maybe not. what the detectives will do is
go right to the facts. facts is stubborn things. they will go to the identity of the shooter. that's what they will be doing. it starts with simple things. when you get a guy down like that you pull out his wallet and see who he is. he may be dead but his computer will tell his life. his electronic devices. he was a very determined person. you saw that video where he moved. i watched him move in that and he moved away from the pillar a towards the open space and went back to the pillar. when you see a police s.w.a.t. team they wouldn't give that space. they would go right to the pillar. i don't disagree with joe. he might have had some training. he could have been shooting paintball. she no great tactical operator
but he is a very determined person. he shot at the officer and shot him and was he able to get shot in the back. it looked like ammoing in back. he brought that long gun. he is ready to kill everybody. motive is still unclear but all of us unconsciously think about the climate of police shootings in the country. it just has to be supported by the facts. >> all right. thank you so much. we greatly appreciate you being here. we are waiting right now a live
news conference in dallas. we'll bring that to you as soon as it begins. we'll be back in just a moment.
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>> i think we areoptimistic. i don't think the word confident works with us yet until we scrape every piece and you said what's out there. there may be other folks behind these folks. we want to be cautious about that sense of confidence. we moved quickly. we did get these individuals. i'm proud of our police force moving as fast as they did and then cornering this one guy and being able to take him out. in some ways it's weird because he is not there to help us crack the nut ton the other side but the good news, she is gone off the face of the earth. >> that was probably one of the most telling moments today. >> the major saying he could not
rule out terrorism and also talking about not knowing if there were people that were behind the actual shooting. we have been talking about it around the disable during commercial break. this is not something if you have four people and coordinated attacks they are suited up. they shoot from different buildings. this does not sound like something they say they look at a facebook live feed. >> and get angry. >> and say i'm angry. we are going to go out and do this tonight. there had to be some planning. >> you know there was no spontaneity here. >> no. >> this was planned. >> and we strongly suspect that they had to have knowledge of the parade route, right? they had to position themselves so they could triage the cops. >> and wouldn't it be in the
newspaper? >> yes. you put it on radio. we always do that. >> and the conclusion that's being drawn is that this shooting spree, a sniper attack on cops is directly related to the two stories of shootings we covered in the last two days. >> we don't know that. >> and we need to get the details and understand motivation. i also want to say this, that the terrorism frame could lead us to look outward to get us to look elsewhere, that the problem is coming to us from outside. >> yeah. >> and part of what i want us to do as we look at the motivations, let's not look outside. part of what this moment forces us to do is look at the ugliness of who we are dpaktly in the face. >> that's what we have been doing. >> and gene robinson, a few hours ago you were talking about
let's not jump to any conclusions. we still should not jump to any c conclusio conclusions. the major says they are not ruling anything out and suggests there may be other forces behind the people that committed these atrocious acts last night. >> i thought it was fascinating when he talked about people being behind the people who were doing this. clearly they are having an unusual amount of trouble trying to figure out the motivation for this. you the suspect who the mayor said they have fingerprinted and they are trying to figure out who he was. they have other suspects in custody who it sounds are not talking basically. they have to figure out who they are and what they are about. we have been given no details. are these people male or female.
you asked a good question, are they of the community or not of the community. there are those kinds of details we can try to tease out. we really just don't know. you know, maybe it will turn out to be directly related to the protests but i think there clear sli a chance it will not be. >> there is a news conference any moment now. we are hoping to get more information in the coming hours and days. andrea mitchell is traveling with the hillary clinton campaign and joe biden was scheduled to join hillary on the campaign trail this morning. is that still going to happen? >> reporter: i can tell you now we learned this is not going to happen. in light of the horrific events in dallas this is going to be postpo postponed. the vice president and democratic nominee cannot be
standing here at a political rally. it is expected that clinton may still appear tonight. she was going to add dres police violence against african americans in philadelphia at the convention center. that event could still take place, that conference, religious conference was to be taking place and is likely still going on. clinton could speak about the violence not only of civilians but also the violence in our society that has some how lead to this who ror in dallas. i wouldn't rule that from taking place but the political fallout is a postponement in a state that was kpped to be a strong hillary clinton state. this will not talk place today. >> i'm hearing there may be changes in trump's schedule as
well from what i'm getting. >> thank you. we are waiting a live news conference to update us on the investigation. we are back in just a moment. he was a great officer. he served as a patrol officer which is what he was doing tonight. he also performed as a rail officer. i would like to point out, brent was recently married in the last two weeks. this is very heartbreaking.
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let's bring back jacob live from dallas. what do you have? >> reporter: a better idea of the timeline first of all. the protest was from 7:00 to 9:00. right as it ended, as the organizers told everybody to go home at 8:58, that's when the shots rang out. we know now 12 officers were shot and two civilians. one of the women civilians was shot while shielding her children. take a listen. >> she took her four boys and herself down to the rally. it was a very peaceful rally. right towards the end of the rally she was right at the beginning, the first crowd to walk away. as they turned to walk away she heard the first shot. they didn't know what it was so
she kept walking. after the first shot another shot went off and then it became a barrage of shots fired. they all began to run and right as she started to run she caught a bullet in the back of her right calf. she immediately jumped on top of one of her sons and three of them ran different directions. we found one. someone took him to somebody's apartment near by and he was able to call us and we picked him up. she is currently going through surgery to remove the bull he we ho bullet we hope. >> reporter: the late oens thste numbers, eight were dallas police department officers, four were dart officer. the five killed, one of them was
a dart officer and the other four were dallas police department officers. the only one that's been identified is the dart officer. he joined the force in 2009 and he was married just two weeks ago. difficult to imagine all of this as the details come out. >> jacob, thank you very much. let's bring in msnbc's cal per rhode island there are similarities here as you're seeing social media from all angles of the stories. >> yeah. if you want to know what parts of baghdad looks like, it looked like the video we saw last night with machine gunfire in an urban area. when i hear police saying tri angulation of fire, that's what they call a kill zone. they had preplanned this. they had done some kind of reconnaissance on the area.
you're not born to learn how to shoot an assault rifle like that. somebody taught them or they practiced, they went to the range. i was covered this in time square when it started. it concerns me the posture of police departments around the country. i saw a negotiated surrender on 47th street here in time square where about two dozen people were willing to spend the night in jail to make their point about the who rimmic kihorrific. i'm worried that the police in cleaver land are not going to have deescalation in the front of their minds. they will have this in the front of their minds and it's totally understandable why. this morning in briefing rooms all across police departments, they are talking about
triangulation of fire. they are talking about kill zones, how they knew how to fire their guns. >> and it's perfect timing to bring you into this conversation. 10 to 15 minutes ago we were talking about the triangulations, the planning, the way they were moving. >> tell valted positions. >> this doesn't sound to you -- well, i won't ask you a leading question. i'll ask, does this sound like a plan that was hatched after somebody saw something on facebook live yesterday afternoon? >> listen, this sounds like something planned well before that. let's talk about facebook live for a second. two weeks ago we had a terrorist go into a house in paris, kill a police officer, kill his wife and then broadcast live from the apartment. luckily in that case the police
were watching and they knew to breach the apartment as soon as they saw that video go up. it raises that technology that has kind of gone past what we are willing to consume. i mean watching this live on the internet last night was absolutely terrifying watching police take atactical cover behind the engine blocks of their cars. when you talk about the long-barrelled guns, these ammunitions will oftentimes pierce an armored vest. police are now reassessing their tactical positions. when we are, as a country, looking for ways to deescalate things on american streets, this does the opposite. >> all right. thank you very much. just in we learned that a donald trump event has been cancelled in miami. we are awaiting an update from
police into the investigation. they will be having a news conference in dallas. also ahead, president obama has had to address more mass shootings than any other president. we'll hear what he told the country from his trip overseas next. also, we are just hearing the mayor is about to start the news conference in dallas. why don't we not go to break right now because we do want to get the latest on the officers slain, five dallas police officers killed and we believe seven injured. here is the mayor of dallas. >> it has been a long morning. i want to say first of all, thank you to all of the emergency personnel that have worked through the night and their courage and their calm determination to make our city safe and to arrest anybody that did us harm.
i also want to thank the county, judge jenkins, the fbi, the governor. the lieutenant governor flew in last night. all of your come entaters are praying for us. i want to say from our heart we feel that, so thank you. i am now going to tell you some not good news for your reporters, and that is we have a criminal investigation going on. our number one job is to make sure the citizens of dallas are safe, so we are not going to tell you anything about the suspects and we are not going to answer any questions on that. we will when it's the right time. now is not the right time. but a lot has happened in the
last five, six, seven hours since we talked. i guess it was early in the morning. i want chief brown to give you an update on that. i am proud of him. he has been working so hard these last few hours. we have been with families and we have been trying to make sure that the city is safe this morning and i believe it is, chief brown. >> thank you, mayor. we are hurting. our profession is hurting. dallas officers are hurting. we are heartbroken. there are no words to describe the atrocity that occurred to our city.
all i know is that this must stop, this deviciveness between our police and our citizens. to update you on what's transpired since we last spoke let me bawalk you through the stand off that was occurring on the second floor of the college there in downtown dallas. we cornered one suspect and we tried to negotiate for several hours. negotiations broke down. we had an exchange of gunfire with the suspect. we saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a
device on the extension for it to detonate where the suspect was. other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger. the suspect is deceased as a result of detonating the bomb. the reporting that the suspect killed himself is not accurate. we have confirmed that he has been deceased because of the detonation of the bomb. our hostage negotiator did an exceptional job getting this suspect to talk before he died, during the hours of negotiating that eventually broke down. i want to share with you some of
the comments from this suspect. the suspect said he was upset about black lives matter. he said he was upset about the recent police shootings. the suspect said he was upset at white people. the suspect stated he wanted to kill white people, especially white officers. the suspect stated he will eventually -- that we will eventually find the ied's. the suspect stated he was in the afoll affiliated with any groups and he stated that he did this al e alone. the suspect said other things that are part of this investigation so that we can make sure that everyone
associated with this tragic event is brought to justice. so as the mayor said, we won't expa expand any further on what other suspects we have interviewed or looked at or their status until we get further into this investigation and get closer to a conclusion of what and who are all involved. but let me just say some closing comments about dallas police officers and dart police officers. some of the bravest men and women you ever want to be associated with. you see video footage after video footage of them running towards gunfire from an elevated position with no chance to protect themselves and to put
themselves in harm's way to make sure citizens can get to a place of security. so please join me in applauding these brave men and women who do this job under great scrutiny under great vulnerability, who literally risk their lives to protect our democracy. we don't feel much support most days. let's not make today most days. please, we need your support to be able to protect you from men
like these who carried out this tragic, tragic event. pray for these families. i spoke with the families of the deceased and the injured. they are not having a good time trying to deal, absorb this, trying to understand why and they need your prayers. so please join us in helping us comfort the grieving officers' families. i trust that soon -- because we are working very diligently processing the crime scene to find evidence to bring any other suspects to justice that were part of this but please pray for our strength through this trying time. thank you. >> i want to add that there are
public safety officials that protect our cities and our institutions all across america every day that aren't police officers. we lost one of those last night, a dart officer was one of the victims. and i want to just take a moment and say the professionalism the dart organization was great and i appreciate better school police officers, campus, college police officers, standing shoulder to shoulder with our police officers. that's the way we work. chief brown told the victim's families and police officers he was a man of faith. i am a man of faith too. we need prayers.
prayer is good. so today at 12:00 at thanksgiving square a leadership group of inner faith ministers will be leading us in that prayer. i would ask that if you're at your home or at your office or at your school to join us today at noon in that spirit of prayer, to bring our city together and our country together, to heal wounds, not create them. thank you. any questions that were not limit? >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> yeah. the injured officers have -- most of them have been released.
there are some that will need follow-up. i won't go into any types of injuries. their families are being private for obvious reasons. what's the question? >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> yes, they doing better. some have been released. some of their statuses, they are needing more treatment but they are being very private about any further detals about their health. >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> so we have to be right 100% of the time in the way we police this city. suspects like this have to be right once. they don't have to work very hard to do cowardly acts like
this to snipe at our officers from elevated positions and to ambush them from secreted positions around corners. all of that work is not for nothing. the city has shown get support and supported the department as these officers. we isn't that too. dallas is a great city. officers will continue to put thimss. >> harm's way to protect these great citizens. so it's worthwhile. >> if anybody hasn't heard us say this. this police department trained in deescalation far before
others did it. we are one of the premier policing cities in the country and this year we have the fewest police officer related shootings than any large city in america. so we are working hard to improve and there are always room for improvement but we are best in dallclass we feel. >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> no. i'm not going to be satisfied until we turned over every stone. we have some level that this suspect did some of the shooting but we are not satisfied we exhausted every lead and we are not satisfied until every lead
was exhausted. if there was someone associated with this, we will find you and prosecute you and bring you to yus tis. >> a total of four suspects? >> we are not counting or exp d expanding on two? >> i know your first focus is on officers and the investigation. can you talk about the -- [ inaudible question ] >> i will let chief brown make any strategic decisions. i think it's important for citizens to realize we want to give everybody freedom of speech. we have been through several protests in the last five or six years and they have all gone in
a safe manner but the chief makes decisions at times that people could be critical of do you put too much body armor on? if we are being critical of these things, think about today. this is what you're risking if you don't do it right. from a policy standpoint we believe in the right to protest but we vals to believe in keeping to our police officers safe. i know i will redouble my effort on that.
>> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> again, i just want to expand on the mayor's comments. the freedom to protest, the freedom of speech and freedom of expression are all freedoms we fight for for our lives. it's what makes us who we are as americans. we risk our lives for those rights. so we want mill ter our policing stan car but we will do it in a safe type. we hadden adequate amount of people. we are not going to let a dough ward who would ambush police officers change our democracy. we are not going to do it.
our city, our country, is better than that. >> reporter: [ inaudible question ] >> all of those questions would be speculation to answer. we can't get into the head of a person who can do something like this. we negotiated with the person. they seemed lucid during the negotiation. he wanted to kill officer. he expressed killing white people. he expressed killing white
officers. he expressed anger for black lives matter. none of that makes sense. none of that is a reason, legitimate reason to do harm to anyone. so the rest of it would be speculating. we just know what he said. that is what he said to our negotiato negotiators. >> thank you, guy, we are going to take off. >> you have been listening to the mayor of dallas and david brown updating the country on the ambush that took the lives of five officers and injured seven. during a peaceful protest tonon- the streets of dallas. he shared with us chilling details on the interactions that police had with one of the suspects before that suspect died. >> certainly did. a few things were cleared up. first of all the initial report that the suspect took his own
life -- one of the suspects took his own life was incorrect. nbc news is reporting and the mayor confirmed and the police chief confirmed they actually send in a robot with a bomb and debt nayed the bomb and blew the suspect up and killed him. there were inconsistencies. also inconsistencies from what dallas officials have told us that the suspect said. he claimed that he had done it alone despiete the fact that we hear there are at least three suspects and despite the fact that in describing the perpetrators the police commissioner described quote men like these. the suspect that they did have
negotiations with for some time before killing said he wanted to kill white people, especially whites. it certainly does not square up with a lot of what you haefr before including records of gunfire and that the officers were actually caught between cross fire. and they said three suspects are in kus dpcustody. they will not reveal the name of the suspect who was killed. >> it appear tls is a certain amount of information to keep private because they are following leads. i think throughout the day we'll be hearing more it does lead to
a lot of question sz about where this moe vig kriep from ch. >> it's hard to figure how much. i'm sure they are checking to see what is accurate. according to the police chief the suspect expressed the desire to kill white police officers, white people. he said he had anger for black lives matter. >> it seemed on behalf of. >> it also said he acted alone, not a member of any group.
this is just the first stages of a developing situation. >> and seems like a lot of inconsistencies. we don't know what has been reported by the chief or even if we speculate there was some other force behind him. they were not expected -- we don't know what we are dealing with. let's say what he said was true, that was he was angry because of those that raised black lives matter and all. there are going to be all kinds of tactics. we cannot stop the movement to correct those that are not correct. >> yeah. we know what we know. hopefully the investigation will continue to proceed in the most
thoroughway that you can. this is something that i want to insist. we are a nation on the edge. that's the take away. >> you can't go over the ledge. >> and we have to figure out why we are there. >> a nation on the edge in desperate need of leadership. >> and a lot of people talking about the need in nation nal address. again, dallas on edge after. and our coverage will continue now with chris. good morning. we stay on this breaking news sniper attack in dallas. >> he shot four cops.
>> 12 officers shot in an ambush. five killed. demonstrators fleeing. >> go. go. go. run, run, run. >> three suspected gunmen in custody and one is dead. >> i was walking and the sniper just started shooting. all of thes were getting shot. >> and police describing a possible motive. >> he wanted to kill white people especially white aufr officers. >> one of the shooters, police searching for other accomplices. >> the entire city of dallas is