tv NBC News Special 2016 Vice Presidential Debate MSNBC October 4, 2016 6:00pm-7:31pm PDT
mike pence started life as a radio talk show host in the state of indiana and, for his part, tim kaine went to harvard law school which has its own way of preparing people to be good communicators later in life. and here we are, the 9:00 p.m. window within the starting time. we have some minutes of pad time at the top of the hour here. elaine quijano is right now in that holding period where the networks have started their coverage. she'll turn to camera in front of her and welcome the national audience to this debate. both candidates will come out from their sides and shake hands. >> we have seen something unusual in the lead-up to this debate. it has become traditional spin tactics that you try to downplay the debating skill of your candidate. oh, my guy's never done anything
like this before. you haven't seen the two sides doing that. you haven't seen them gaming those expectations against one another. in fact, we just saw karen pence with kelly o'donnell talk about her husband, mike pence, having been on the debate team in high school and having been very well prepared for this and very confident. we haven't seen those games. the expectations are high. >> chris matthews down in virginia. someone pointed out kaine has been down no scheduled events for what, five days? these are both preparers, they're both students and serious guys. >> right. and bob barnett, the washington lawyer, you know, was out there playing the opposite number for him, playing pence to him. so he will be very well prepared. the biggest question tonight is what's to the advantage of each of those contestants. i think it's in the interest of pence to go after hillary clinton. not defend trump any more than he has to. he'll score if he hits hillary clinton because down the road that makes him a safer republican bet for the future.
on the other hand, i think that kaine is not comfortable going after hillary clinton -- going after trump, so i think he's going to play defense. i expect the offense will come from pence tonight and surprise everybody. >> chris, i have a mechanical question about the news media in the filing room in the spin room there because often what's written there at the event gets to be the first draft. does everyone ther get to see the same split screen directed coverage that we see in the studio and folks at home? >> no, i think we'll see a single screen tonight. i'm looking at two. i have the advantage where i'm sitting, i can see both, i can see the split and the single. so i think it may be an option play for everybody. but that's a great question. i think the split screen really hurt trump last week. it does play an unusual role. ever since the nixon/kennedy debate, the look of the opponent has almost been as powerful as the presentation of the speaker,
you're right. >> chris matthews down in virginia. we called it facial discipline last week will be on display again sunday night. >> one on sunday night but one of tim kaine's signature things, you saw this in some of the signs people were holding up, a smiley face sign with a cocked eyebrow. tim kaine is very much known for being -- >> arched brow. >> both when he's making a point and listening to something. i'm not sure mike pence is known to have a tick or a tell like that, but we're about to find out. >> all about facial discipline when you're not the one talking and you're the one reacting and sometimes verbal discipline as well. we're in the final ten seconds. you see the teleprompter has opened up the magic window directly facing our moderator elaine quijano. we'll go down to the room. >> good evening. from longwood university in farmville, virginia, and welcome to the first and only vice presidential debate of 2016 sponsored by the commission on presidential debates. i'm elaine quijano, anchor at
cbsn and anchor at cbs news. it's an honor to moderate this debate between senator kim kaine and governor mike pence. both are longtime public servants who are also proud fathers of sons serving in the u.s. marines. the campaigns have agreed to the rules of this 90-minute debate. there will be nine different segments covering domestic and foreign policy issues. each segment will begin with a question to both candidates who will reach have two minutes to answer. then i'll ask follow-up questions to facilitate a discussion between the candidates. by coin toss it's been determined that senator kaine will be first to answer the opening question. we have an enthusiastic audience tonight. they've agreed to only express that enthusiasm once at the end of the debate and right now as we welcome governor mike pence and senator tim kaine. [ cheers and applause ]
gentlemen, welcome. it truly is a privilege to be with both of you tonight. i'd like to start with a topic of presidential leadership. 28 years ago tomorrow night, lloyd bentsen said the vice presidential debate was not about the qualifications for the vice presidency but about how, if tragedy should occur, the vice president has to step in without any margin for error, without time for preparation to take over the responsibility for the biggest job in the world. what about your qualities, your skills and your temperament equip you to step into that role in a moment's notice. senator kaine. >> elaine, thank you pofor bein here tonight and governor pence,
so great to be back at longwood university in farmville, virginia. this is a very special place. 65 years ago a young, courageous woman, barbara john, led a walkout of her high school, m moton high school, she made history by protesting school segregation. she believed our nation was stronger together. that walkout led to the brown vs. board of education decision that moved us down toward a path to equality. i'm so proud to be running with another strong history-making woman, hillary clinton, to be president of the united states. i'm proud because her vision of stronger together, building an economy that works for all, not just those at the top,eing safe in the world not only with a strong military but also strong alliances to battle terrorism and climate change and also to build a community of respect just like barbara johns tried to do 65 years ago. that's why i'm so proud to be a runni running mate. hillary told me why she asked me to be her running mate.
the test of a clinton administration will not be the signing of a bill or a passage of a bill it will be whether we can make somebody's life better a classroom better learning environment for school kids with teachers, whether we can make us safer. it will be about results. she said to me, you've been a missionary and civil rights lawyer, you've been a city councilman and mayor, you've been a lieutenant governor and governor now a u.s. senator. i think you will help me figure out how to govern this nation so we always keep in mind the success of the administration the differs we make in people's lives. that's what i bring to the ticket. but my primary role is to be hillary clinton's right-hand person and strong supporter as she puts together the most historic administration possible, and i relish that role. i'm so proud of her. i'll just say this. we trust hillary clinton, my wife and i, we trust her with the most important thing in our life. we have a son deployed in the
marines overseas and we trust hillary clinton as commander in chief. but the idea of donald trump as commander in chief scares us to death. >> governor pence. >> first off, thank you, elaine and to the university for their hospitality. deeply humbling for me to be here. to be surrounded by wonderful family. and senator kaine, it's an honor to be here with you as well. and i just also want to say thanks to everyone that's looking in tonight. who understands what an enormously important time this is in our nation. for the last 7 1/2 years we've seen america's place in the world weakened, we've seen an economy stifled by more taxes, more regulation, a war on coal and a failing health care reform come to be known as obamacare and the american people know that we need to make a change. i want to thank all of you for being with us tonight. i also want to thank donald trump for making that call and inviting us to be a part of this
ticket. i have to tell you, i'm a small town boy from a place not too different from farmville. i grew up with a corn field in my backward. my grandfather had emigrated to this country when he was about my son's age. my mom and dad built everything that matters in a small town, in southern indiana. they built a family and a good name and a business. and they raised a family. i dream some day of representing my home town in washington, d.c., but i honestly elaine i never imagined i'd have the opportunity to be governor of the state that i love let alone be sitting at a table like this in this kind of a position. so answer your question, i would say i would hope that if the responsibility ever fell to me in this role, that i would meet it with the way that i'm going to meet the responsibility should i be elected vice president of the united states. and that's to bring a lifetime of experience, a lifetime of growing up in a small town, a
li lifetime where i've served in the dochk united states, where i've led a state that works in the great state of indiana. and whatever other responsibilities might follow from this, i would hope and frankly i would pray to be able to meet that moment with that lifetime of experience. >> senator kaine, on the campaign trail, you praised secretary clinton's character including her commitment to public service. yet 60% of voters don't think she's trustworthy. why do so many people distrust her? is it because they have questions about her e-mails and the clinton foundation? >> elaine, let me tell you why i trust hillary clinton. people should look at in a public servant, do they have a passion that showed up before they were in public life and have he held on to that passion whether they were in office or not, succeeding or failing? hillary clinton has that passion from the time as a kid in a methodist youth group in chicago she's focused on serving others
with a special focus on empowering families and kids. as a civil vits lawyer in the south with the children's defense fund, first lady of arkansas and senator and secretary of state, it's always about putting others first. that's a sharp contrast with donald trump. donald trump always puts himself first. he built a business career in the words of one of his own campaign staffers off the backs of the little guy and as a candidate he started his campaign with a speech where he called mexicans rapists and criminals and he has pursued the discredited and really outrageous lie that president obama wasn't born in the united states. it is so painful to suggest that we go back to think about these days where an african-american could not be a citizen of the united states and i can't imagine how governor pence can defend the insult-driven selfish me first style of donald trump. >> governor pence you said that donald trump is thoughtful, compassionate and steady, yet 67% of voters feel he is a risky
choice and 65% feel he does not have the right kind of temperament to be president. why do so many americans think mr. trump is simply too erratic? >> let me say first and foremost that, senator, you and hillary clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign. it really is remarkable. at a time when literally in the wake of hillary clinton's tenure as secretary of state, where she was the architect of the obama administration's foreign policy, we see entire portions of the world, particularly the wider middle east, literally spinning out of control. i mean, the situation we're watching hour by hour in syria today is a result of the failed foreign policy and the weak foreign policy that hillary clinton helped lead in this administration and create. the newly emboldened aggression of russia whether in ukraine or -- >> you -- >> heavy handed approach. >> you both said vladimir putin. >> gentlemen, we'll get back to russia in a moment.
>> but in the midst, thank you, senator. >> he praised vladimir putin as a great leader. >> we do have that coming up here. but in the meantime, the questions -- >> senator, i must have hit a nerve here. because at a time of great challenge in the life of this nation where we've weakened america's place in the world, stifled america's economy, the campaign of hillary clinton and tim kaine has been an avalanche of insults. look, to get to your question about trustworthiness, donald trump has built a business through hard times and through good time. he's brought an extraordinary business acumen. he's employed tense of thousands of people in this country. >> and paid few taxesnd lost a billion dollars a year. >> but why the disconnect with your running mates? >> but there's a reason why people question the trustworthiness of hillary clinton and that's because they're paying attention. the reality is when she was secretary of state, senator, come on, she had a clinton foundation accepting
contributions from foreign governments -- >> you are donald trump's sopranist. >> senator, i think you're on my time. >> isn't this a discussion? >> let me interrupt you and finish my sentence, if i can. >> finish it. >> the clinton foundation accepted foreign contributions from foreign governments and foreign donors while she was secretary of state. >> now i can weigh in. >> she had a private server that was. >> senator, please. you have an opportunity. >> governor pence doesn't think the world's going so well and he's going to say it's everybody's fought. >> do you? >> let me tell you this, when hillary clinton became secretary of state did you know that osama bin laden was alive? we had 175,000 troops deployed in the battlefield in iraq and afghanistan? do you know that iran was racing toward a nuclear weapon and russia was expanding its stockpile? under the leadership she was part of the public safety team that went out and revived the
dormant hunt against bin laden a and wiped him off the face of the earth and worked with the russians to reduce their chemical weapons stockpile and worked a tough negotiation with nations around the world to eliminate the iranian nuclear weapons -- >> him nak the iranian nuclear weapons threat? >> without firing a shot and instead of 175,000 troops deployed overseas we have 15,000. >> and iraq has been overrun by ice because hillary clinton failed to renegotiate. hillary clinton, hillary clinton, hillary clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement. >> no, that is incorrect. >> gentlemen. >> we removed all of our troops from iraq. >> i'd like to move on to the economy. >> i'd like to correct -- president bush said we would leave iraq at the end of 2011. and elaine, iraq didn't want our troops to stay and they wouldn't give us the protection for our troop. if a nation where our troops are
serving does not want us to stay, we're not going to stay. >> it was a failure of the secretary of state. >> if governor pence wants to put more troops -- >> there are a lot of people in this country wondering about the economy. let's turn to the smissue of th economy. neither of your economic plans will reduce the growing $19 trillion gross national debt. in fact, your plans would add even more to it. both of you were governors who balanced state budgets. are you concerned that adding more to the debt could be disastrous for the country? governor pence? >> i think the fact that under this past administration of which hillary clinton was a part, we almost doubled the national debt. it's atrocious. i'm very proud of the fact that i come from a state that works. the state of indiana has balanced budgets. we cut tax, made record investments in education and in infrastructure, and i still finished my term with $2 billion
in the bank. that's a little bit different than when senator kaine was governor here in virginia. he actually tried to raise taxes by about $4 billion. he left his state about $2 billion in the hole. the state of indiana we cut unemployment in half, unemployme doubled when he was govern governor. but he's a very fitting running mate for hillary clinton. because in the wake of a season where american families are struggling in this economy under the weight of higher taxes and obamacare and the war on coal and the stifling avalanche of regulation coming out of this administration, hillary clinton and tim kaine want more of the same. it really is remarkable. they actually are advocating trillion dollar in tax increases. i get that. you tried to raise taxes here in virginia and were unsuccessful. more regulation, more of the same war on coal and more of obamacare that now even former president bill clinton calls obamacare a crazy plan. but hillary clinton and tim kaine want to build on
obamacare. they want to expand it into a single payer program and for all the world hillary clinton just thinks obamacare is a good start. donald trump and i have a plan to get this economy moving again just the way that it worked in the 1980s, just the way it worked in the 1960s and that's by lowering taxes across the board for working families, small businesses and family farms ending the war on coal that is hurting jobs and hurting this economy even here in virginia. repealing obamacare, lock, stock and barrel and repealing all of the executive orders that barack obama has signed that are stifling economic growth in this country. we can get america moving again, put on top of that the kind of trade deals that will put the american worker first and you've got a prescription for real growth. and when you get the economy growing, elaine, that's when you can deal with the national debt. when we get back to 3 1/2 to 4% growth with donald trump's plan will do, then we're going to have the resources to meet our nation's needs at home and abroad and we're going to have
the ability to bring down the national debt. >> senator kaine. >> on the economy there's a fundamental choice for the american electorate. do you want a hired president in hillary clinton or a you're fired president in donald trump. i don't think that's such a hard choice. hillary and i have a plan on the table that's the you're hired plan. we invest in manufacturing incenter structure in the clean energy jobs of tomorrow. second thing is we invest in the work force, pre-k education to teachers to debt-free college and tuition-free college for families that make less than $125,000 a year. we promote fairness by raising the minimum wage so you can't work full time and be under the poverty level and for women equal pay for equal growth. we make it easier to start and grow small businesses. hillary and i each grew up in small business families. my dad who ran an iron working shop is here tonight.
fifth, we have a tax plan that targets tax relief to middle class individuals and small businesses and ask those at the very top who benefit as we come out of recession to pay more. the trump plan is a different plan. it's a you're fired plan. and there's two key element toits. first, donald trump said wages are too high. and both donald trump and mike pence think we ought to eliminate the federal minimum wage. mike pence, when he was in congress, voted against raising the minimum wage above $5.15. and he has been a one-man bulwark against minimum wage increases in indiana. the second component of the plan is massive tax breaks for the very top. trillions of dollars in tax breaks for people just like donald trump. the problem with this, elaine, is that exactly what we did ten years ago and it put the economy into the deepest recession, the deepest recession since the 1930s. independent analysts say the clinton plan would grow the economy by 10.5 million jobs, the trump plan would cost 3.5
million jobs. donald trump, why would he do this? because his tax plan basically helps him. and if he ever met his promise and he gave his tax returns to the american public like he said he would, we would see just how much his economic plan is really a trump-first plan. >> on that point, governor pence, recently "the new york times" released part of mr. trump's 1995 tax return and reported that he could have avoided paying federal income taxes for years. yesterday, mr. trump said he brilliantly used the laws to pay as little tax as legally possible. does that seem fair to you? >> well, first, let me say i appreciated the you're hired, you're fired thing, senator. you used that a whole lot. i think you're running mate used a lot of predone lines. look, what you all just heard out there is more taxes, $2 trillion in more spending, more deficits, more debt, more government, and if you think that's all working, then you
look at the other side of the table. i mean, the truth of the matter is the policies of this administration, which hillary clinton and senator kaine want to continue have run this economy into a ditch. we're in the -- >> 50 million new jobs? >> run this country into the -- >> 15 million more jobs? >> there's more people living in poverty today than the day barack obama brk and hillary clinton by his side stepped into the oval office. honestly, senator, you can roll out the numbers and the sunny side, but i have to tell you people in scranton know different. people in ft. wayne, indiana, know different. this economy is struggling. the answer to this economy is not more taxes. >> but it's not to give away tax relief to the folks at the top. >> governor. >> his running mate's not releasing taxes. >> absolutely i will. >> with all due respect, the question was about whether it seems fair to you that mr. trump said he brilliantly used the law to pay as little tax as legally
possible? >> this is probably the difference between donald trump and hillary clinton and senator kaine. i mean, hillary clinton and senator kaine and god bless you for it, career public servants, that's great. donald trump is a businessman, not a career politician. he actually built a business. those tax returns that came out publicly this week show that he faced some pretty tough times 20 years ago. but like virtually every other business including "the new york times" not too long ago he used what's called net operating loss. we have a tax code, senator, that actually is designed to encourage entrepreneurship -- >> but why won't he release his tax returns? >> we're answering the questions about the business thing. >> i do want to come back on this. >> his tax returns showed he went through a very different time, but he used the tax code just the way it's supposed to be used and he did it brilliantly. >> how do you know that? >> because he's created a business that's worth billions of dollars today. >> how do you know that? >> and with regard to paying
taxes, this whole riff about not paying taxes and people saying he didn't pay taxes for year, donald trump has created tens of thousands of jobs and he's paid payroll taxes. >> i want to talk about that. >> property taxes. >> i will give you 30 seconds to respond. >> hillary clinton is going to raise taxes and donald trump and i are going to cut them. >> donald trump started this campaign and said if i run for president i'll absolutely release my taxes. >> and he will. >> he's broken his first promise. >> he hasn't broken his promise. >> he stood on this stage last week and when hillary said you haven't been paying taxes, he said, that makes me smart. so it's smart not to pay for our military. it's smart not to pay for veterans, to pay for teachers and i guess all of us who do pay for those things the i guess were stupid. >> senator, do you take all deductions that you're entitled to? >> the last thing i want to ask governor pence -- >> i do. >> governor pence had to show his tax returns to show he was qualified for vice president.
donald trump must give the american public his tax returns to show that he's qualified to be president. >> elaine, i have to respond to this. >> you get very little time. 20 seconds. >> i'll be very respectful. donald trump has filed over 100 pages of financial disclosure, which is what the law requires. >> but he said he would release his tax returns. >> and he's going -- senator, he's going to release his tax returns when the audit is over. >> richard nixon released tax returns when he was under audit. >> gentlemen, gentlemen. >> you can't -- >> when you speak over each other, i would please ask you to wait until the other is finished. on the issue of social security, in 18 years when the social security trust funds run out of money, you'll be 76. the committee for a responsible federal budget estimates your benefits could be cut by as much as $7500 per year. what would your administration do to prevent this cut? >> first, we're going to protect
social security which is one of the greatest programs that the american government has ever done. it happened at a time when you would work your whole life, your whole life raising your kids, working, we have a little league coach or a sunday school teacher, then retire into poverty. and social security has enabled people to retire with dignity and overwhelmingly not be in poverty. we have to keep it solvent and we will and we'll look for strategies like adjusting the payroll tax cap upward. here's what hillary and i will not do and i'll make this very plain. we will never, ever engage in a risky scheme to privatize social security. donald trump wrote a book and said that social security is a ponzi scre ponsy scheme. and when governor pence was in congress he was the chief cheerleader for the privatization of social security. even after president bush stopped pushing for it, governor
pence kept pushing for it. we'll look for ways to keep it solvent focusing on the payroll tax cap. >> governor pence, an opportunity to response. >> thanks, elaine. there they go again. donald trump and i have said about social security is we're going to meet our obligations to our seniors. >> go read the book. >> we've said we'll meet the obligations of medicare. this is the old scare tactic that they roll out to scare seniors. >> you have a voting record, senator. >> i get all that. look -- >> i can't believe you won't defend your own voting record. >> i have to go back to. look, you're running with hillary clinton who wants to raise taxes by a trillion dollars, increase spending by $2 trillion and you say you're going to keep the promises of social security. donald trump and i are going to cut taxes, we're going to -- >> you're not going to cut taxes. you're going to raise taxes on the middle class. >> -- to meet the obligations of
social security and medicare. stay on the path that your party has us on, we'll be in a mountain range of debt and face hard choice. >> you did ask this question about debt and the debt explosion on the trump plan is much, much bigger than anything on the clinton side. >> -- and race relations, law enforcement and race relations. after the dallas police shooting, police chief david brown said, quote, we're asking cops to do too much in this country. every societal failure we put it off on the cops to solve. not enough mental health funding, not enough drug addiction funding, schools fail, let's give it to the cops. do we ask too much of police officers in this country? and how would you specifically address the chief's concerns, senator kaine? >> that's a very fair comment. we put a lot on police shoulders. this is something i have a lot of scar tissue and experience on. i was a city council and mayor
in richmond. we had one of the highest homicide rates in the united states. we fought very hard over my course of time in the local office with our police department and reduced our homicide rate nearly in half. when i was governor of virginia we worked hard, too. we did something we had really wanted to do. for the first time ever we cracked the top ten, ten safest states because we worked together. here's what i learned as a mayor and a governor. the way you make communities safer and the way you make police safer is through community policing. you build the bonds between the community and the police force, build the bonds of understanding, and then when people feel comfortable in their communities, that gap between the police and the communities they serve narrows, and when that gap narrows, it's safe for the communities and safer for the police. that model still works acss our country, but there are some others models that don't work. an overly adwresive more militarized model. donald trump said we need to do more stop and frisk around the
country. that would be a big mistake because it polarizes the relationship between the police and the community. here's what we'll do. we'll focus on community policing. we'll focus on and hillary clinton has rolled out a really comprehensive mental health reform package that she worked on with law enforcement professionals and we'll also fight the scourge of gun violence in the united states. i'm a gun owner. i'm a strong second amendment supporter. but i got a lot of scar tissue because when i was governor of virginia, there was a horrible shooting at virginia tech, and we learned that through that painful situation, that gaps in the background record checks system should have been closed and it could have prevented that crime. so we're going to work to do things like close background record checks. and if we do, we won't have the tragedy that we did. one of those killed at virginia check was a man named libby he was a holocaust survivor. he survived the holocaust, then the soviet union takeover of his country, but then he was a
visiting professor at virginia tech and he couldn't survive the scourge of gun violence. we can support the second amendment and do things like background record checks and make things safer and that will make police safer, too. >> governor pence. >> you know, my uncle was a cop, career cop on the beat in downtown chicago. he's my hero when i was growing up. we went up to visit my dad's family in chicago my three brothers and i would marvel at my you thinkle when he would come out in his uniform, side arm at his side. police officers are the best of us. the men and women, white, african-american, asian, latino, hispanic. they put their lives on the line every single day. let me say at the risk of agreeing with you, community policing is a great idea. it's worked in the hoosier state. and we fully support that. donald trump and i are going to make sure that law enforcement have the resources and the tools
to be able to really restore law and order to the cities and communities in this nation. that's probably why the 330,000 members of fraternal order of police endorse donald trump as the next president of the united states of america because they see his commitment to them. they see his commitment to law and order. but they also hear the bad mouthing, the bad mouthing that comes from people that seize upon tragedy in the wake of police action shootings as a reason to use a broad brush to accuse law enforcement of implicit bias or institutional racism. and that really has got to stop. i mean, when an african-american police officer in charlotte named brantley vincent, all-star football player who went to university here in the state, came home, followed his dad into law enforcement, joined the force in charlotte in 2014, was
involved in a police action shooting that claimed the life of keith lamont scott. it was a tragedy. we mourn with those who mourn. we grieve with those who greeb a -- grieve and saddened at the loss of life. but hillary clinton referred to that moment as a moment of implicit bias in the police force when she was asked in the debate a week ago whether there was implicit bias in law enforcement her only answer was this there's implicit bias in everyone in the united states. >> can i explain -- >> what we ought to do is stop seizing on these moments of tragedy. we ought to assure the public that we'll have a full and complete and transparent investigation whenever there's a loss of life because of police action, but senator, please, you know, enough of this seeking every opportunity to demean law enforcement broadly by making the accusation of implicit bias
every time tragedy occurs. >> people shouldn't be afraid to bring up issues of bias in law enforcement. >> i'm not afraid to bring that up. >> if you're afraid to have the discussion, you'll never solve it. here's an example, we would gray this is a heartbreaking example. the guy philando castillo who was killed in st. paul, he was a valued worker in a local school. he was killed for no apparent reason in an incident that will be discussed and will be investigated, but when folks went and explored this situation, what they found was that fill la-- philando castile he'd been stopped by police 40 times before that incident. african-americans and latinos get sentenced for the very same crimes at different rates. >> we need justice reform. >> those who say -- >> what are you talking about.
>> we should not be able to talk about bias in the system. >> senator, it was african-american police officers involved in a police action shooting involving an african-american, why would hillary clinton accuse that african-american police officer of implicit bias? >> i can't believe you're defending the position of there's no bias. >> i have a question on that point. your fellow republican, governor pence, senator tim scott, who is african-american, recently spoke on the senate floor. he said he was stopped seven times by law enforcement in one year. >> a u.s. senator. >> he said i have felt the anger, the frustration the sadness and the humiliation that comes with feeling like you're being targeted for nothing more than being just yourself. what you would say to senator scott about his experiences? >> well, i have the deepest respect for senator scott and he's a close friend. and what i would say is that we need to adopt criminal justice reform nationally.
i signed criminal justice reform in the state of indiana, senator, and we're very proud of it. i worked when i was in congress on a second chance act. we have got to do a better job recognizing and correcting the errors in the system that do reflect institutional bias in criminal justice. but what donald trump and i are saying is let's not have the reflex of assuming the worst of men and women in law enforcement. we truly do believe that law enforcement is not a -- >> elaine -- >> so what would you say to senator scott? >> law enforcement in this country is a force for good. they truly are people that put their lives on the line every single day. but i would suggest to you, what we need to do is assert a stronger leadership at the national level to support law enforcement. you just heard senator kaine reject a stop and frisk. well, i would suggest to you
that the families that live in our inner see thes that are besieged by crime. >> senator, talking about senator scott, what would you tell -- >> i heard senator scott make that eloquent plea. look, criminal justice is about respecting the law and being respected by the law. there is fundamental respect issue here. the tone set from the top. donald trump has called mexicans rapists and criminals, he's called women slobs, pigs, dogs disgusting, i don't like saying that in frnt of my wife and my mother. he attacked a federal judge and said he was unqualified to hear a federal lawsuit because his parents were mexican. he went after john mccain, a p.o.w. and said he wasn't a hero because he'd been captured. he said african-americans are living in hell. he perpetrated this outrageous and bigoted lie that president obama is not a u.s. citizen. if you want to have a society where people are respected and respect laws, you can't have
somebody at the top who demeans every group that he talks about. i cannot believe that governor pence will defend the insult-driven campaign that donald trump has run. >> i want to turn to our next segment now, immigration. your running mates have both said that undocumented immigrants who have committed violent crimes should be deported. what would you tell the millions who have not committed violent crimes? governor pence? >> donald trump has laid out a plan to end illegal immigration once and for all in this country. we've been talking it to death for 20 years. hillary clinton and tim kaine want to continue the policies of open borders, amnesty catch and release, sanctuary cities, all the things that are driving wages down in this country and also too often with criminal aliens in the country it's bringing heartbreak. but donald trump has a plan that he laid out in arizona that will
deal systematically with illegal immigration, beginning the border security. probably the first time in the history of immigrations and customs enforcement their union actually endorsed donald trump as the next president of the united states because they know they need help to enforce the loss of this country. and donald trump has laid out a priority to remove criminal aliens, remove people who have overstayed their visas, and once we've accomplished all of that, which will strengthen our economy, strengthen the rule of law in the country and make our community safer once the aliens that are out, then we'll deal with those that remain. i have to tell you, i was listening to the avalanche of insults coming out of senator kaine a minute ago. >> these were donald -- hold on a second. >> it's my time, senator. >> in fact -- >> your two minutes. >> he says ours is an insult-driven campaign? did you all just hear that?
ours is an insult-driven campaign? donald trump said all of the thing us said he said in the way you said he said them, he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that hillary clinton leveled when she said that half of our supporters were a basket of deplorables. they said they were irredeemable. they were not american. i mean, it's extraordinary. then she labeled one after another ism on millions of americans who believe we can have a stronger america at home and abroad who believe we can get this economy moving again, who believe we can end illegal imgrigs once and for all. senator, this insult-driven campaign -- >> governor -- >> that's small potatoes that called them a basket of deplorables. >> hillary clinton said something on the campaign trail and is very next day she said i shouldn't have said that. >> look, look --
>> so now we're even. >> look for donald trump apologizing to john mccain for saying he wasn't a hero. to donald trump apologize for calling women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. >> apologized for saying -- >> governor, it is his two minutes, please. >> did he apologize for saying african-americans were living in hell? for saying president obama was not even a citizen of the united states? you will look in vain to see donald trump ever taking responsibility for anybody and apologizing. immigration, there's two plans on the table. hillary and i believe in comprehensive immigration reform. donald trump believes in deportation nation. you got to pick your choice. hillary and i want a bipartisan reform that will put keeping families together as the top goal, second, that will help focus enforcement efforts on those who are violent, third, that will do more border control and fourth that will provide a
path to citizenship for those who work hard, pay taxes, play by the rules and take criminal background checks. that's our proposal. donald trump proposes to deport 16 million people. 11 million who are here without documents and both donald trump and mike pence want to get rid of birth right citizenship. so if you're born here but your parents don't have documents, they want to eliminate that. that's another 4 1/2 million people. these guys and donald trump has said it, deportation force. they want to go house to house, school to school, business to business and kick out 16 million people. >> that's nonsense. that's nonsense. >> i cannot believe that governor pence would sit here and defend his running mate's claim that we should create a deportation force so that they'll all be gone. >> senator we have a deportation force, it's called immigrations and customs enforcement. and the union for immigrations and customs enforcement for the first time in their history endorsed donald trump to be the next president of the -- >> so you like the 16 million --
>> senator, that's nonsense. what you just heard is they have a plan for open borders, amnesty. >> our plan is a comprehensive plan -- >> they call it comprehensive immigration reform on capitol hill. we all knew the routine. it's amnesty. you heard one of the last things he mentioned is border security. that's how washington always plays it. >> three years ago and governor pence was against it. >> mr. trump has said -- >> a nation without borders is not a nation. donald trump is committed to restoring the borders of this nation. >> so governor, how would these millions of undocumented immigrations leave? would they be forcefully removed? >> donald trump laid out a series of priorities. i doesn't end with border security. it begins with border security. and after we skir tecure the bo not only build a wall, beneath the ground and in the air and do internal enforcement. the focus has to be on criminal aliens. we just had a conversation about
law enforcement, about the violence that's besetting our cities, the reality is that there's heartbreak and tragedy that has struck american families because people that came into this country illegally are now involved in criminal enterprise and activity and we don't have the resources or the will to deport them systematically. donald trump has said we'll move those people out, we'll use the law of this country. we'll need more personnel to be able to do that. once we've done all of those things, we're going to reform the immigration system that -- >> i just have to correct gobner pence. >> that's the order that you should do it. border security, removing criminal aliens, upholding the law, then senator, i'll work with you when you go back to the senate, i promise you, we'll work with you to reform the immigration system. >> i look forward to working
together in whatever capacity wes serve in, but i just want to make it very clear he's trying to fuzz up what donald trump has said. when he spoke in phoenix, he looked the audience in the eye and said we're building a wall and deporting everybody. he said, quote, they will all be gone. they will all be gone. this is one of the ones where you can go to the tape on it and see what donald trump has said. >> he's talking about criminal aliens. >> and to add to it, and to add to it, we're a nation of immigrants. mike pence and i both are descended from immigrant families. some things maybe weren't said to great about the irish when they came. but we've done well by absorbing immigrants and it made our nation stronger. when donald trump said mexicans are rapists and criminals, when donald trump said about your judge, a hoosier judge, he said that judge curiel was unqualified to hear a case because his parents were mexican american, i can't believe you can defend that.
>> i'd like to shift to the threat of terrorism. do you think the world today is a safer or more dangerous place than it was eight years ago? has the terrorist threat increased or decreased? senator kaine. >> the terrorist threat has decreased because bin laden is dead, it has decreased because an iranian nuclear weapons program has been stopped, the terrorist threat to united states troops has been decreased in some ways because there's not 175,000 in a dangerous part of the world, there's only 15,000, but there are other parts of the world that are challenging. let me tell you this, to beat terrorism, there's only one candidate who can do it and it's hillary clinton. remember hillary clinton was the senator from new york on 9/11. she was there at the world trade center when they were still searching for victims and survivors. that seared on to her, the need to beat terrorism. she's got a plan to do it. she was part of the national security team that wiped out bin laden. here's her plan to defeat isil. first, we've got to keep taking out their leaders on the
battlefield. she's part of the team that got bin laden and she'll get abu bakr al baghdadi, the leader of isis. third, disrupt their ability to recruit on the internet in their safe havens, but fourth, we also have to work with allies to share and surge intelligence. that's the hillary clinton plan she's got the experience to do it. donald trump. donald trump can't start a twitter war with miss universe without shooting himself in the foot. donald trump doesn't have a plan. he said i have a secret plan, and then he said, i know more than all the generals about isil. then he said i'm going to call the generals to help me figure out a plan. and finally he said i'm going to fire all the generals. he doesn't have plan. but he does have dangerous ideas. he trash talks the military. the military's a disaster. john mccain's new hero. the generals need all to be fired and i know more than them. he wants to tear up alliances. nato is obsolete and we'll only work together with israel if
they pay big league. third, he loves dictators. he's got kind of a personal mt. rushmore, vladimir putin, kim jong-il. >> oh, please. >> saddam hussein. >> come on. >> lastly, donald trump believes -- donald trump believes that the world will be safer if more nations have nuclear weapons. saudi arabia should get, this japan should get them, korea should get them. when he was confronted with this and said, wait a minute, terrorist could get those, proliferation could lead to nuclear war, donald trump said, go ahead, folk, enjoy yourselves. i'd love to hear governor pence tell me what's so enjoyable or comical about nuclear war. >> governor pence. >> did you work on that one a long time? because that one had a lot of creative lines in it. >> i'll see if you can defend any of it. >> i can defend -- i can make it very clear to the american people, after traveling millions of miles as our secretary of state, after being architect of the foreign policy of this
administration, america's less safe today than it was the day that barack obama became president of the united states. it's absolutely inarguable. we've weakened america's place in the world. it's been a combination of factors but mostly a lack of leadership. i will give you, and i was in washington, d.c., on 9/11, i saw the clouds of smoke rise from the pentagon. >> i was in virginia where the pentagon stands. >> i know you were. we all lived through that day as a nation. it was heartbreaking. i want to give this president credit for bringing osama bin laden to justice. but the truth is osama bin laden led al qaeda. our primary threat today is isis. because hillary clinton failed to renegotiate a status of forces agreement that would have allowed some american combat troops to remain in iraq and secure the hard-fought gains the american soldier had won by 2009
isis was able to be literally conjured up out of the desert and it's overrun vast areas that the american soldier had won in operation iraqi freedom. my heart breaks tore the likes f lance corporal scott sabowski. he fell in fallujah in 2005. he fought hard through some of the most difficult days in "operation iraqi freedom." he paid the ultimate sacrifice. that nation was secured in 2009. because hillary clinton and barack obama failed to provide a status of forces agreement and leave sufficient troops in there, we are back at war. the president just ordered more troops on ground. scott sabowski whose mom would always come to memorial day events in new castle, indiana, i told her we would never forget
about her son. this administration created a vacuum on which isis was allowed to grow. the iranian deal that hillary clinton initiated. >> stopping a nuclear weapons program -- >> you didn't stop the nuclear weapons program. >> yes, we did. >> you guaranteed that iran will some day become a nuclear power, there's no limitations -- >> mr. trump has proposed extreme vetting of immigrants from parts of the world that exports terrorists. that does not help the home grown terrorist acts. those were committed by u.s. citizens and legal immigrants. what tools would you use to prevent those types of attacks? >> it's a good question. it begins with us reforming our
immigration system and putting the interest, particularly the safety and security of the american people first. donald trump has called for extreme vetting, for people coming in to this country so we don't bring people into the united states who are hostile to our bill of rights of freedoms. hostile to the american way of life. also, donald trump and i are committed to suspending the syrian refugee program. and programs and immigration from areas of the world that have been compromised by terrorism. hillary clinton and tim kaine want to increase the syrian refugee program by -- >> i'll tell you -- >> the question was about home green -- >> let's make sure we're putting the safety and security of the american people first -- >> or instead of you violating the constitution by blocking people based on their national origin rather than whether they're dangerous. >> that's absolutely false. >> that's what the seventh circuit decided -- >> the seventh -- >> we have different ideas on
immigration. these guys say all mexicans are bad. and with respect to refugees, we want to keep people out if they're dangerous. donald trump said keep them out if they're muslim. mike pence put a program in place to keep them out if they're from syria. yesterday an appellate court struck down the pence plan and said it was discriminatory. >> those judges had -- >> we should focus on danger. >> it's because there wasn't any evidence yet that isis had infiltrated the united states. well, germany just arrested three syrian refugees -- >> well, i know. >> but they told you there's a right way and a wrong way to do it. >> if you're going to be critical of me on that, that's fair game. i will tell you, after two syrian refugees were involved in the attack in paris, that is called paris' 9/11, as governor of the state of indiana, i have no higher priority than the
safety and security of the people of my state. you bet i suspended my program. and i stand by that decision. if i'm vice president of the united states and donald trump is president. we're going to put the safety and security of the american people first. >> hillary and i will do immigration and enforcement and vet refugees based on whether they're dangerous or not. we won't do it based on discriminating you from the country you come from. that is completely antithetical. the. >> the director of the fbi or home land security said we can't know for certain who these people are. >> yes, we can. if we don't know who they are, we don't let them in. >> the fbi and homeland security said we can't know for certain. you've got to err on the side of the safety and security of the american people. >> and trashing all muslims? >> senator kaine let me ask you this, what would an intelligence
surge look like, and how would that help identify terrorists with no -- >> intelligence surge is two things, elaine. first, dramatically expanding our intelligence capacities by hiring great professionals, also, we have some of the best intel and cyber employees in the world right here in the united states working for many of our private sector companies, it involves increase in our own workforce, but striking great partnerships with some of our cyber and intel experts in the private sector so we can consistent with constitutional principles gather more intelligence. the second piece of this is really important. it also means creating stronger alliances. you share your intelligence back and forth. that's how you find out who may be trying to recruit, who may be trying to come from one country to the next. alliances are critical. that's why donald trump's claim
that nato is obsolete. we need to get rid of nato. >> that's not his plan. >> he said nato is obsolete. if you push aside your alliances, who are you going to share intelligence with. hillary clinton built the sanctions regime around the world that stopped the iranian program. better skill and capacity and also better alliances. >> i'd like to turn to the tragedy in syria. >> can i speak about the cyber security surge at all? >> you can have 30 seconds, governor, quickly. >> well, i -- first donald trump just spoke about this issue this week, we have got to bring together the best resources of this country to understand that cyber warfare is the new warfare of the asymmetrical enemies we face in this country. and i look forward, if i'm privileged to be in this role to make sure we resource that effort. >> we will work together in whatever roles we have. >> i will also tell you that
it's important in this moment to remember that hillary clinton had a private server in her home that had classified information -- >> all right, governor, your 30 seconds is up. >> drone strikes, e-mails from the president of the united states of america were on there. her private server was subject to be hacked -- >> governor, i'd like to ask you -- you have now had a minute. 250,000 -- >> and a full investigation concluded that not one reasonable prosecutor would take any additional step. you don't get to decide the rights and wrongs of this. we have a justice system that does that, and a republican fbi director did an investigation and concluded. >> we are moving on now. 250,000 people. >> if your son or my son handled -- >> 100,000 of them are children. >> that is absolutely false, and you know that. >> governor. >> gentlemen, please. >> the fbi did an investigation. and they concluded there was no reasonable prosecutor who would take it further. >> all right. >> i want to turn now to syria.
250,000 people, 100,000 of them children, are under siege in aleppo syria, bunker buster bombs and incendiary weapons are being dropped on them by russian and syrian militaries. does the u.s. have a responsibility to protect civilians and prevent mass casualties on this scale? >> the united states of america needs to begin to exercise strong leadership to protect the vulnerable citizens and over 100,000 children in aleppo. hillary clinton's top priority when she became secretary of state was the russian reset. the russian reset. after the russian reset, the russians invaded ukraine and took over crimea. the small and bullying leader of russia is now dictating terms to the united states to the point where all the united states of
america -- the greatest nation on earth just withdraws from talks about a cease-fire while vladimir putin puts a missile defense system in syria, while he martials the forces and begin -- we have got to begin to lean into this with strong, broad shouldered american leadership. it begins by rebuilding our military, the russians and chinese have been making enormous investments in the military. we have the smallest navy since 1916. we have the lowest number of troops since the end of the second world war. we have got to work with the congress, and dorn anald trump to rebuild. about aleppo and syria, i truly do believe that what america ought to do right now, is immediately establish safe zones, so families and vulnerable families with children can move out of those areas, work with our arab partners, realtime right now, to make that happen. and secondly, i just have to
tell you that the provocations by russia need to be met with american strength. and if russia chooses to be involved and continue, i should say to be involved in this barbaric attack on the civilians in in aleppo, the united states of america should be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the assad regime. to prevent them from this humanitarian crisis that is taking place in aleppo. there's a broad range of other things we ought to do as well. we ought to deploy a missile defense shield to the czech republic and poland which hillary clinton and barack obama pulled back on not wanting to offend the russians. we have to have american strength on the world stage. when donald trump becomes president of the united states, the russians and countries of the other world will know they're dealing with a strong american president. >> we agree that the establishment of the military zones in northern syrian, with the provision of human aid would
be a very very good idea. and hillary also has the ability to stand up to russia in a way that this ticket does not. donald trump again and again has praised vladimir putin and it's clear he has business dealings with russians that are connected to putin. the trump campaign management team had to be fired a month or so ago because of those shadowy connections with pro putin forces. governor pence made the odd claim, he said inarguably, vladimir putin is a better leader than president obama. putin ran his economy into the ground. he persecutes lgbt folks and journalists. i'll tell you what offends me. >> that offended me. >> governor pence just said that donald trump will rebuild the military. no, he won't. donald trump is avoiding paying
taxes. "the new york times" story suggested that he probably didn't pay taxes for about 18 years starting in 1995, those years included the years of 9/11. so get this, on 9/11, hillary clinton and donald trump's hometown was attacked by the worst terrorist attack in the history of the united states. young men and women signed up to serve in the military, to fight terrorism. hillary clinton went to washington to get funds to rebuild her city and protect first responders, donald trump was fighting a very different fight. it was a fight to avoid paying taxes so he wouldn't support the fight against terror. he wouldn't support troops. >> the question was about aleppo, senator. >> this is important, elaine. when a guy running for president will not support the troops, not support veterans, not support teachers, that's really important. and i said about aleppo, we do agree, the notion is, we have to create a humanitarian zone in
northern syria, it's very important. >> governor pence, you had mentioned no fly zone. where would you propose setting up a safe zone, specifically? how would you keep it safe? >> first and foremost, donald trump supports our troops. donald trump supports our veterans. >> he won't pay taxes. >> donald trump has paid all the taxes -- >> this is about syria, i would like to ask -- >> it is about our troops. it is about our troops. >> how can you -- >> i understand why you want to change the subject. >> he won't pay taxings. >> i understand why you want to change the subject. >> gentlemen, we're going to have time -- >> what we're dealing with is -- there's an old prover that says the russian bear never dies it just hibernates. the truth of the matter is, the weak and feckless foreign policy has awakened an aggression in russia that first appeared a few years ago with their move in georgia, now their move into
crimea, now their move into the wider east. we just need american strength. we need to martial the resources of our allies in the region and end the immediate -- we need to act and act now to get people out of harm's way. >> exactly how would those safe zones work. how would they remain safe? >> the safe zones would have to be -- as the senator said, there's already a framework for this, that's been recognized by the international community. the united states of america needs to be prepared to work with our allies in the region, to create a route for safe passage and protect people in those areas including with a no fly zone. this is very tough stuff, i served on the foreign affairs committee for a decade, i travelled in and out of that region for 10 years, i saw what the american soldier won in operation iraqi freedom. and to see the weak and feckless leadership that hillary clinton
was the architect of in the foreign policy of the obama administration. >> let me come back. >> is deeply troubling to me. >> lete talk about things that governor pence doesn't want to acknowledge. he doesn't want to ago known that we stopped the iranian nuclear weapons program. >> you didn't. >> hillary was part of a team that got bin laden. >> i just did. >> it's a good thing, not a bad thing -- that it's a good thing not a bad thing, we're down from 175,000 troops deployed overseas to 15,000. let me tell you what would make the middle east dangerous. donald trump's idea that more nations should get nuclear weapons. ronald reagan said something interesting about nuclear proliferation back in the 1980s, he said the problem with nuclear proliferation is that some fool or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. and i think that's who governor pence's running mate is. >> oh, come on. >> exactly who ronald reagan warned us of.
>> senator, that's below you and hillary clinton. that was low. >> do you think that more nuclear weapons in the world will make us safer? >> a nuclear war should never be fought because it can never be won, said ronald reagan. the united states needs to make investments -- >> can you defend donald trump's claim that more nations should get nuclear weapons. >> let's go back to this iran thing, hillary clinton who started the deal with the iranians, prevented iran from getting a nuclear weapon. >> that's what the israeli joibt chiefs of staff is saying right now. >> well, that's not what israel think. >> go to the tape, you can check it. >> i know you boycotted netanyahu's speech. >> no, i visited -- >> the point is, what this iran -- so called iran deal did was cen willy guarantee, when i was in congress, i fought hard on a bipartisan basis.
with republican and democrat members to move forward the toughest sanctions, it literally in the history of the united states against -- >> and then hillary used them -- >> we were bringing them it heal, but the goal was always that we would only lift the sanctions if iran permanently renounced their nuclear -- >>' lane, let me just mention -- >> elaine, let me finish a sentence. they have not renounced their nuclear weapons. when the dole runs out, there's no limitation on nuclear weapons. $1.7 billion in a ransom payment. >> we need to talk about russia quickly. >> six times tonight i have said to governor pence, i can't imagine how you can defend your running mate's position on one issue after the next. in all six cases he's refused to defend. >> no, no, don't put words in my mouth. >> all right. >> you have to give it -- >> and yet he is asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend. i think that should be underlined. >> gentlemen, let's talk about
russia. this is the topic that has come up. i will give you an opportunity -- >> i'll take them one at a time. >> more nations should get nuclear weapons? >> he never said that, senator. >> he has absolutely said it, saudi arabia, south korea, japan. >> putin has provided crucial military support to the assad regime. what steps if any would your administration take. >> you have to be tough on russia, so let's stop praising putin as a great dealer. donald trump has business dealings with russia, that he refuses to disclose. hillary clinton has gone toe to toe with russia. she went toe to toe with russia ya as secretary of state to reduce the new start agreement. she's had the experience doing it, she went toe to toe with russia, and lodged protests when
they went into georgia, and we've done the same thing about ukraine, but more than launching protests, we've put punishing economic sanctions on russia, that we need to continue. donald trump on the other hand didn't know that russia had invaded crimea. >> that's nuts. >> he was on a tv show a couple months back. i guarantee you this, russia is not going into the ukraine. he had to be reminded that they had gone into crimea two years before. >> he knew that. >> hillary clinton got them engaged in a meaningful way to cap iran's nuclear weapons program, and yet she stood up to them on issues such as syria, and their invasion of georgia. you've got to have the ability to do that, and hillary does. on the other hand, in donald trump, you have somebody who praises vladimir putin all the time. america should really wonder about a president trump who had a campaign manager with ties to putin. pro putin elements in the ukraine, who had to be fired for
that reason. they should wonder, when donald trump is sitting down with vladimir putin, is it going to be america's bottom line or donald trump's bottom line that he's going to be worried before with all of his business dealings. this could be solved if donald trump would be willing to release his tax returns as he told the american public that he would do. i know he's laughing about this -- >> what does it have to do with russia. >> donald trump has said i'm doing business with russia, the only way the american public will see -- >> no, he hasn't said that fp. >> your time is up. governor. >> well, thanks. just trying to keep up with the insult driven campaign on the other side of the table. >> i'm just saying facts about your running mate. >> yeah -- >> senator, please, this is the governor's two minutes. >> don't put words in my mouth that i'm not defending him. >> you're not. >> i'm happy to defend him. most of what you said is completely false -- >> i'll run through the list of things. >> senator, please.
>> look, this is the alternative universe of washington, d.c., versus reail it i. hillary clinton said her number one priority was a reset with russia. that reset resulted in the invasion of ukraine, after they had infiltrated with little green men, russian soldiers that were dressing up like ukrainian disside dissidents, they moved all the way into the crimea peninsula and took over. donald trump knew that happened, he was saying it wasn't going to happen again. the truth of the matter is, what you have in the rise of aggressive russia, which has increased its influence in iran, that's now because of this deal is on a pathway in the future to obtain a nuclear -- the leading state sponsor of terror in the world in iran, now has a closer working relationship with russia, because of hillary clinton and barack obama's foreign policy.
and $150 billion in sanctions all being lifted. and then, of course, syria, it really is extraordinary, this -- syria is imploding, you just asked a very thoughtful question about the disaster in aleppo, isis is headquartered in raqqa, isis from raqqa has overrun vast areas that soldiers won in operation iraqi freedom. senator kaine still sits here, loyal soldier, i get that, saying the foreign policy of hillary clinton and barack obama somehow made the world more secure. i mean, really is astonishing -- >> we wiped out the leader of al qaeda. >> on the day -- >> nuclear weapons. >> we delivered 400 million in cash as a ransom payment for americans held by the radical -- in tehran. >> just today, mr. trump said, putin has no respect for hillary clinton and no respect for
obama, why do you think he'll respect a trump/pence administration. >> strength, plain and simple. >> business dealings. >> donald trump -- that's nonsense. >> donald trump's son says that the trump organization -- >> please, senator. >> we're going to rebuild our military, and let me say, this whole putin thing. america is stronger than russia, our economy is 16 times larger than the russian economy. america's political system is superior to the crony corrupt capitalist system in russia in every way. when done ald trump and i observe as i said in syria, iran and ukraine, that the small and bullying leader of russia, has been stronger on the world stage than this administration, that's stating painful facts. that's not an endorsement of vladimir putin, that's an indictment of the weak and
feckless leadership of barack obama and hillary clinton. >> this is one you can go to the tape on. governor pence said, vladimir put season a better leader than president obama. >> that is inaccurate. >> i think -- >> he's been stronger on the world stage. >> no, he said leader. i'll just say this, governor. >> you just said better. >> if you mistake leadership for dictatorship and you can't tell the difference, a country that's running its economy. >> here we go, this is the grade school thing again? >> if you can't tell the difference, you shouldn't be commander in chief. donald trump's sons say they have all these business dealings with russia. those could be disclosed with tax returns but they refuse to do them. e americans need to worry about whether donald trump should be watching out for his bottom line or america's bottom line. >> what went wrong with the russia reset? >> vladimir putin. vladimir putin is a dictator. >> what would you do
differently? >> he's a dictator, not a leader. anyone who thinks otherwise doesn't know russian history and they don't know vladimir putin. hillary clinton knows exactly who this guy is it. john mccain said i look in his eyes and see kgb. >> right. >> hillary has that same feeling. how do you deal with him. we have to deal with russia in a lot of dinner ways. there are areas where we can cooperate. so it was hillary clinton who worked with russia on the new start treaty to reduce their nuclear weapons stockpile. it was hillary clinton that worked with russia to get them engaged in a community of nations. to stop the iranian nuclear weapons program without firing a shot. she's not going around praising vladimir putin as a great guy. she knows how to sit down at a table and negotiate tough deals. this is a challenging part of the world. we ought to have a commander in chief who has done it, rather than someone who goes around praising vladimir putin as a great leader. >> i'd like to ask about north korea, iran and the threat of
nuclear weapons. north korea recently conducted its fifth and most powerful nuclear tests. what steps would you take to prevent north korea from developing a missile capable of reaching the united states? >> first, we need to make a commitment to rebuild our milita military, including modernizing our nuclear forces. we also need an effective american diplomacy, that will martial the resources of nations in the asian pacific rim to put pressure on north korea, on kim jong-un to abandon his nuclear ambitions. it has to be the policy of the united states of america. when donald trump is president of the united states, we're not ing to have the kind of posture in the world that has russia invading crimea and ukraine, that has the chinese
building new islands in the south china sea. that has literally the world including north korea flauting power. i have to tell you that all this talk about tax returns and i get it -- you know, you want to keep bringing that up, it must have -- >> until he makes some progress. >> hillary clinton and her husband set up a private foundation, called the clinton foundation, while she was secretary of state, the clinton foundation accepted tens of millions of dollars from foreign governments and foreign donors. now, you all need to know out there, this is basic stuff, foreign donors and certainly foreign governments cannot participate in the american political process. they cannot make financial contributions, but the clintons figure out a way to create a foundation where foreign governments and foreign donors can donate millions of dollars, and then we found thanks to the
good work of the associated press, more than half of her private meetings when she was secretary of state, were given to major donors of the clinton foundation. you talk about -- all these baseless rumors about russia and the rest, hillary clinton -- you ask the trustworthy question at the very beginning. >> governor, your two minutes are up. >> they're looking at the pay to play politics that she operated with the clinton foundation through a private server while she's secretary of state. >> your two minutes are up. >> they're saying enough is enough. >> i'm going to talk about the foundati foundation, then north korea. on the foundation, i'm glad to talk about the foundation, the clinton foundation is one of the highest rated charities in the world, it provides aids drugs to about 11 1/2 million people, it helps americans deal with opiod overdoses, it gets higher rankings for its charity than the american red cross does. the clinton foundation does an awful lot of good work. hillary clinton as secretary of state, took no action to benefit
the foundation, the state department did an investigation, and they concluded that everything hillary clinton did as secretary of state was completely in the interest of the united states. so the foundation does good work, and hillary clinton as secretary of state acted in the interest of the united states. but let's compare this now with the trump organization, and the trump foundation. the trump organization is an octopus like organization with tentacles all over the world, whose conflict of interest would only be known if donald trump would release his tax returns. he's refused to do it. his sons have said that the organization has a lot of business dealings in russia, and remember the trump organization is not a nonprofit, it's putting money into dorn ald trump's pockets and the pockets of his children. the clinton foundation is a nonprofit, and no clinton family member draws any salary. >> the trump foundation -- >> in addition, donald trump has a foundation, the foundation was just fined for illegally
contributing foundation dollars to a political campaign of a florida attorney general. they made an illegal contribution and tried to hide it by disguising it as somebody else. the person they donated to is someone whose office was charged with investigating trump university. this is the difference between a foundation that does good work and a secretary of state who acted in accord with american interest and somebody who is conflicted in doing work around the world and won't share with the american public what he's doing and what those conflicts are. >> governor, i will give you 30 seconds to respond because i know you want to. this was about north korea. >> thank you. thank you. the trump foundation is a private family foundation, they give virtually every cent in the trump foundation to charitable causes. >> $20,000 portrait of donald trump. >> 10 cents on the dollar --
>> 90%. >> it's been a platform for the clintons to travel the world, to have staff. but honestly, senator, we would know a lot more about it, if hillary clinton would turn over the 33,000 e-mails that she refuses. >> all right, let's move on. >> senator cane, if you had intelligence that north korea was about to launch a missile, a nuclear armed missile capable of reaching the united states, would you take preemptive action? >> if we -- look, a president should take action to defend the united states against imnen the threat, you have to. the president has to do that. exactly what action, you have to determine what your intelligence was, how certain you were of that intelligence, you would have to take action. you asked a question about how do we deal with a north korea, i'm on the foreign relations committee, we just did an extensive sanctions package. the u.n. foaled and did
virtually the same package. often china will use their veto in the security council to veto a package like that. they're starting to get worried about north korea too. they supported the sanctions package. even though many of the sanctions are against chinese firms, we're working together with china, and we need to. china's another one of those relationships where it's competitive, it's also challenging and in times like north korea we have to be able to cooperate. hillary understands that very well. she went to china and stood at a human rights rally. she said, womens rights are human rights. she worked on a diplomatic deal with china, that's what it's going to take. donald trump owes about $650 million to banks including the bank of china. i'm not sure if he could stand up so tough to the people who
loaned him money. i'd like to turn to our next segment. you have both been open about the role that faith has played in your lives. can you discuss in detail a time when you struggled to balance your personal faith and a public policy position. senator kaine? >> that's an easy one for me, elaine. i'm fortunate, i grew up in a wonderful household with great irish catholic parents. i was educated by jesuits in kansas city, my 40th reunion is in 10 days. and i worked with jesuits in around the world. i don't believe in this nation of first amendment nation where we don't raise any religion over the other and we allow people to worship as they please, that the doctrines of any one religion
should be mandated for everyone. for me, the hardest struggle in my faith life is the catholic church is against the death penalty and so am i. but i was governor of a state, the state law said there was a death penalty for crimes if the jury determined them to be heinous, i had to grapple with that when i was running for governor, i was attacked pretty strongly because of my position on the death penalty, i looked the voters of virginia in the eye and said, look, this is my religion, i'm not going to change my religious practice to get one vote. but i know how to take an oath and yu7 hold the law, and if you elect me i will. i was elected and i did. it was difficult to allow executions to go forward, in circumstances where i didn't feel there was a case for clemency, i told voters i would uphold the law, and i did. that was a real struggle, it's really important for those of us who have deep faith lives don't feel like we could substitute
our own views for everyone else in society regardless of their views. >> governor pence. >> it's a wonderful question. and my christian faith is at the very heart of who i am. i was also raised in a wonderful family of faith. it was church on sunday morning, and grace before dinner. my faith became real for me when i made a decision for christ when i was a freshman in college. i've tried to live that out however imperfectly every day of my life since. with my wife at my side, we followed a calling into public service, where we've tried to keep faith with the values that we cherish. and with regard to when i struggle. i appreciate and i have a great deal of respect for senator kaine's sincere faith, i truly do. >> that's shared. >> for me, i will tell you the
sanctity of life proceeds out of the belief that ancient principle that -- where god says before you were formed in the womb i knew you. from my first time in public life, i've sought to stand with great compassion for the sanctity of life. state of indiana has also sought to make sure that we expand alternatives in health care counseling for women, nonabortion alternatives. i'm pleased to the fact we're on our way in indiana to becoming the most proadoption state in america. if you're prolife you should be proadoption. what i can't understand is with hillary clinton and now senator kaine at her side, is to support a practice like partial birth aborti abortion. i know, senator kaine you hold prolife views personally, but the very idea that a child that is almost born into the world
could still have their life taken from them is unconscionable to me. i can't conscience a party that supports that. you opposed taxpayer funding of abortion, but hillary clinton wants to repeal the longstanding provision in the law where we said we wouldn't use taxpayer dollars to fund abortion. so for me, my faith informs my life, i try to spend a little time on my knees every day, but all for me, begins with cherishing the dignity, the worth of value of every human life. >> elaine, this is a fundamental question. a fundamental question. hillary clinton and i are both people out of religious backgrounds. her methodist church experience was formative for her as a public serve an the. we feel like you should live fully and with enthusiasm the commands of your faith. but it is not the role of the public servant to mandate that for everybody else.
let's talk about abortion and choice. let's talk about them. we support roe versus wade. the constitutional right for american women to search their own conscience, make their own decision about pregnancy. that's something we trust american women to do that. and we don't think women should be punished as donald trump said they should for making the decision to have an abortion. governor pence wants to repeal rowe versus wade. we have some young people who weren't born when it was decided. before rowe versus wade, states could punish women if they made the choice to determinen ate a pregnan pregnancy. you should live your moral
values. the last thing the government should do is have laws to punish women who make reproductive choices. that is the fundament difference between a clinton/kaine ticket. >> no, it's not. we would never support the legislation to punish a woman -- >> why did donald trump say that? >> he's not a polished politician like you and hillary clinton, and so -- >> i would admit that's not a polished thought. >> i'm telling you what other -- >> can i say -- i got a great line from the gospel -- from the fullness of the heart, the mouth speaks. >> yeah. >> when donald trump says women should be punished or mexicans are rapists or john mccain is not a hero, he's showing you who he is. >> you whipped out that mexican thing again. >> can you defend it? >> there are criminal aliens in
this country who have come into this country illegally, who are perpetrating violence. >> you want to use a big brush against mexicans. >> he said, and many of them are good people, you keep leaving that out of your quote. if you want me to go there, i'll go there. there is a choice here, it's a choice on life. i couldn't be more proud to be standing with donald trump who's standing for the right to life, it's a principle that senator kaine that you embrace, i've appreciated the fact that you've supported the height amendment. we can come together as a nation, create a culture of life. more and more young people are embracing life, because we know we are better for it. like mother teresa