tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC October 18, 2016 11:30pm-12:01am PDT
will record that 2017 was the year america lost it's independence. that's true. that's true. it will not happen on our watch. okay. >> this is serious stuff. that was donald trump this evening in grand junction, colorado. he has talked about this election being rigged. and many of his supporters say they are prepared to act if he does not win. our correspondent jacob rascon spoke to a group of trump supporters at his rallies today, colorado springs, jacob is now in denver for us. jacob, it's been proven that if you want to record the trump phenomenon, you best stay out of new york, washington, and los angeles, you will miss the story entirely, boy did you find the story where you were today. >> and to be clear, brian, we talked to dozens of supporters, nearly every swing state in nearly every stop that donald
trump goes, and they don't all agree on what should be done if he loses, but what's clear is that they're becoming increasingly frustrated as they notice, even if they say they don't believe the polls, they notice that he's going down and down and down, and we're getting so close to the election that when donald trump says we either win the election or we lose our country, it's become very clear that his supporters largely buy that argument. take a listen. >> on november 8th, what if he loses? >> america's not going to sit down. >> there will be a civil unrest, and i believe there should be. i don't think that hillary will win fair and square if they say she wins. >> exactly. >> to be clear if hillary clinton wins will you accept the outcome? >> hell no. hell no. i will never call her as my president. >> if there's a civil unrest, then we have an uprising of trump supporters. i think it's not going to happen right away, i think it happens once she does the crooked things
she's likely to do. >> over here. >> i believe november 9th, if they say hillary clinton's won, there will be an unrest like we probably have never seen. >> don't get us wrong, we're not talking about burning buildings and stuff like that. it's a peaceful protest, but the thing is, we have a voice. america has a voice. and we want it heard. >> so again, they don't all agree here. this was a group of five people who didn't know each other and who just walked up and they all started talking. we asked if we could record the conversation, but largely i would say that most supporters do believe that the election is rigged, not specifically because of polling places, but because they believe that the media is rigged in the way that the election is covered. and many of them do say that they just cannot accept hillary clinton as president. i mean, this is the argument that donald trump is making. what's interesting is what came first, the chicken or the egg? i was hearing his supporters
talk like this even before he was really talking like this back in february, march, april, but more and more of them are talking like this and more, more explicitly about doing something in if he loses, brian. >> jacob, after a day of reporting the story in colorado, thank you so much for joining us live from denver tonight. apropos of this, i want to bring in our msnbc political analyst ben ginsburg. he is former general council to the national republican committee. he played a central role in the 2000 florida recount. he's worked for bush/cheney, romney and then some. ben, you heard the result of our reporting today. this is dangerous talk and what's your worst fear? >> well, it is dangerous talk, brian. and i've worked in elections for a lot of years, and the fundamental notion of those is
that we conduct our elections to the best of our abilities, people accept the results as fair, and then the country comes together. and so, the worst fear is that people start doubting our most fundamental institutions. >> if you were standing there with those trump supporters today, that jacob spoke to in colorado springs, what's the countercase you'd make as an effective advocate, to those folks, as to why the election isn't rigged? >> i would say look, the core fundamental principle of our country is that it's a democracy. in a democracy, the majority wins. it's the way we do our elections. it's the way the voice of the people is heard. i understand completely that sometimes you do not like the choices of the majority, but, the fundamental reseptember of the country is that we accept the results of the election. >> as a practical matter, where
does come down? democrat, republican, where elections are local matters. where local elections are recorded and decided. how does that work and can that be used as a way to comfort people that the system, the fix is not in? >> well, honestly, it works pretty well. what our elections have always been is the gorting of the community to come make their choices for who the leadership is going to be. we have between 8,000 and 9,000 different jurisdictions actually counting the votes. so the notion about widespread national conspiracy to steal the election, the impossible to pull off. also voting machines are way behind the time technologically speaking, but that may actually be a good thing in terms of being able to do this, but we have a principle in our country in that people can observe the electoral process in the polling places.
each party, each candidate can have observers, the observers have to follow the law us of that different state, but this is a buy-in. it's not a black box system where things take place behind a curtain of some sort, and people should take comfort in the openness of our democracy and our voting process. >> i was just going to say, i knew there was a good reason why we haven't updated our election system since the 1950s, and there it is. >> go figure. >> perhaps you heard our mutual friend and lifelong republican steve schmitt, got very emotional tonight on this topic, and the big concern is, should donald trump lose on november 8th, there won't be a concession that will go on. and that suspended aggravated state. >> well, look, there have been concessions by al gore under what happened to be impossibly difficult circumstances, richard nixon conceded the election, although he certainly had
grounds to challenge it if he had wanted to. my guess is that the country is actually going to move on. if the results are the way the polls feel that they will. so that goes to sort of the role in history that the participants in this election want to play for themselves. >> mike pence said he would concede conceivably. who's going to go to donald trump and advise him of that if that's the result? >> well, i believe that mike pence will be true to his word on that. i also, in listening to the words of the people around him, i think would also agree with that. reince priebus, the chairman of the republican national committee will have his ground forces. his ground forces are now donald trump's, in many respects, the turnout of trump supporters is in the republican national committee's hands. certainly reince is a former state chairman and the members
of the republican national committee would have an obligation to be sure that the foundations of the country are kept. >> former rnc general council now with the d.c. law firm, ben ginsburg, thank you as always for coming on the broadcast. we appreciate it. coming up after one more break. liberal icon bernie sanders heads to the home of barry goldwater. why arizona may be a state to watch come election night. and what other states could be on the cusp of turning blue. this is the 11th hour.
character point of view or a policy point of view than donald trump to become president. >> fuzzy picture, clear message. let's look at where this race stands tonight. that was bernie sanders stumping for hillary clinton in arizona tonight. yes, red arizona. and on thursday, perhaps your strongest surrogate first lady michelle obama will go there as well. she'll be in phoenix. the state only voted for a democrat twice since 1948. getting aggressive there because it appears to truly be in play. real clear politics trump up one within the margin of error. clinton is on the offense in battleground states like the one she landed in tonight. the university of houston you heard him talk about this. shows trump with just a
three-point lead factor in the margin of error there. you have a dead heat and a new washington post survey has clinton leading in enough states to give her 304 electoral votes as of today with arizona, texas, florida, and ohio listed as toss-ups. so that is why you are seeing bernie sanders in arizona tonight and why first lady smob going there on thursday. another break and coming up, the dire question, will the u.s. pay a price for what's happening on battlefield overseas tonight? this is the 11th hour.
lot to drive isis out what have they call. >> reporter: we followed iraqi troops to the front line south of anamosale to see for ourselves. we made our way to the newly liberated village. she's happy said a man pushing his 80-year-old grandmother, she's happy to see the soldiers, but then why were these people carrying white flags and leaving their village? because iraqi troops in their rush to get to anamosa will have moved on. even though villagers say there were still isis fighters here. what we saw next was a war planners worst nightmare entering this sunni village were shiite militias. in a country that's seen civil war, it's a dangerous mix. what happened here was an
international question. in retaliation for losing mosul on targets in the west. >> when mosul falls, how are they going to deflect the attention? there bha no one better to talk to about this military operation than retired u.s. army four star general barry mccaffrey who in addition to his four overseas combat tours, two distinguished service crosses and three purple hearts commanded the 249 infantry and stepped deep into iraq during desert storm. these are from washington. general, are you content in the u.s. role in this offensive? and that is some artillery and some intelligence. >> relentless and year long campaign. the only good news here by the
way in my view is that in the past year or so, isis has failed to govern these call fat areas and the u.s. air force and naval air power has hammered them without siege day and night. a bunch of them have gone home. which is bad news for europe. the good news for the iraqi army. you know, we'll see how this plays out. million some odd civil yab noncombat tants struck in an urban area, 25,000 iraqi troops. several thousand isis fighters, thankfully we've got army apatchy attack helicopters and artillery there for precision stripes. but this is going to be a mess and the aftermath of it could be a humanitarian disaster if the international community doesn't act decisively. >> this must kind of amount to mechanized deja vu to look at these pictures. here are the oil wells on fire again and forgive me, but i'm looking at some of the vehicles in these pictures.
some of the humvees that go back to your time in the desert. >> well that's right. and only time this time it's going to be urban combat intense involvement underground tunnels, suicide bombers, hostages, we'll try and use precision fires, but it's going to be a long haul. the only possible good outcome, the last time when isis took the city 1,000 fighters put 60,000 iraqi troops in the flight frightened ravk. so this may be the other way around this time with air power artillery, apatchy helicopters, isis could break contract and go back into syria where they're safer. >> general the world is less
safe with isis around. i know you've indicated wow wouldn't want to be europe, but what about the united states and our safety here because this operation necessary as it is, also amounts to hitting a bee's nest with a baseball bat. >> it's no question, brian, you're right. there'd be asemitic attacks i'm sure that isis will come up with. normally their targets are turkey, germany, the uk, france, belgium, they may well take a swing at us. our embassy, overseas military installations. but look, at the end of the day, we have to thank god for the fbi, the u.s. marshall service, the cia, customs and border protection, our primary defense is u.s. law enforcement and they're pretty good at it. >> and 30 seconds, this general on the ground, i believe he runs 101st here domestically, but he's another battle hardened general from gulf wars in our recent history. >> yeah. you know, steve townsend is a three-star commander on the ground and joe bote lsh, joint
regional commander. >> these people have been in nonstop combat for 15 years now. they know what they're doing. they know the actors on the ground. we have to have great confidence in them. and by the way, i think the administration, the obama's team has been very smart in not putting ground combat troops in there. >> general barry mccaffrey, thank you so much for joining us from washington tonight. >> good to be with you. another break and coming up, one of the remaining last events in the obama administration just tonight.
last thing before we go tonight, the last state dinner of the obama years in office. everybody put on the ritz this evening as the obamas welcomed italian prime minister mateo and his wife. it's been pointed out that was versace first lady michelle obama was wearing in all it's glittering beauty this evening. mario was the guest tonight in black clog. the guest list ranged from pelosi to stefani who was the performer after the meal. tonight's dinner was in a tent they were unable to pronounce in our newsroom many of the items on the menu, but they all sounded absolutely delicious, but the numbers the obamas have hosted more state dinners than the bushes did, fewer than in the clinton years.
there are just 92 days remaining in the obama presidency. that does it for this extended hour long edition of "the 11 tonight on "all in." >> i invite mr. trump to stop whining and go and try to make his case to get votes. >> on the eve of the final presidential debate. >> i don't believe the polls anymore. >> donald trump still questioning the legitimacy of american democracy. >> they even want to try and rig the election at the polling booths where so many cities are corrupt. >> new backlash from the left and the right. >> there's no evidence behind any of this. >> if whenever things are going badly for you and you lose, you start blaming somebody else. then you don't have what it takes to be in this job. >> obama's 2012 campaign manager jim messina joins me. plus veteran campaign lawyer ben ginsburg on what happens if a